- 2 days ago
ITL debates whether the issues surrounding Sengun are just a temporary slump, a situational fit within the offense, or something more fundamental about his role in the Rockets’ system.
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00:00There's clearly an issue with Rockets center Alperin Shangoon.
00:04Last night, the Rockets lose to the Golden State Warriors at home
00:07in a way that they absolutely should not have.
00:09And part of it, in my estimation, in my belief,
00:13was Alperin Shangoon has just been,
00:15he's not been the version of himself that we had gotten accustomed to seeing last year.
00:20Even him being an all-star these past few years,
00:22it has not felt like what it's supposed to feel like,
00:25especially not this year,
00:26and especially since the turn of the calendar since January,
00:29it just hasn't felt right.
00:31But I want to go beyond the simple idea of identifying that there's an issue.
00:35I think what's important is, what type of issue is it?
00:39Is it something that's temporary?
00:40Something that feels like, okay, just in this brief period of time,
00:43this is happening and it should probably be resolved in some way or somehow.
00:47Is it situational because of the circumstance that is there?
00:51Or is it fundamental, which is the scariest of those?
00:53Because if that's the case,
00:54then we have to have real conversations about what this team's future is
00:58with Alperin Shangoon.
00:59I think it's a lot of situational with a dab of fundamental,
01:05a dash of fundamental.
01:08I'll start with the fundamental.
01:10And that is, what year is this for Shangoon now?
01:14Is it six, five?
01:17What year is he in?
01:18Well, I mean, he got that little extension last year.
01:21I'm guessing, yeah, this feels like it was the same year, Jalen Green, right?
01:25Yes, sir.
01:26Because I remember vividly having that conversation or having that thought that,
01:30yeah, you're good with the Alperin Shangoon contract.
01:32The Jalen Green one, you were like, ooh, let's see what this looks like.
01:36But yeah, Alperin Shangoon, I mean, he's been here for a little while.
01:40And so that's why I'm thinking it's just a dash of fundamental.
01:45We've been waiting for him to take this big leap and be baby Jokic and all that,
01:49and he's been an all-star, so not to disparage his game by any stretch what it's been.
01:54But is he ever really going to be that this deep into his NBA career?
01:58This is year five.
01:59Five.
01:59I thought it was five or six.
02:01You know, is it fair to ask that question?
02:03Is there still room for him to be that?
02:05I believe there's still room because he is 23 years old,
02:09and typically when I think of NBA players, those dudes hit their prime.
02:15I think 27 is when you should be really hitting your prime.
02:18And so we're still four years off of that for him.
02:23And you've seen him be an all-star, right?
02:25Now, of course, he was a replacement all-star this year, but an all-star nonetheless.
02:28The thing that I wonder when we talk about the idea of something fundamental
02:33is no matter what the context, no matter over the time period,
02:37is this going to be an issue?
02:38And one of the things that I'm starting to wonder if it is that is the touch.
02:42The touch around the rim is it's not a short-term thing.
02:45That ties in with what I'm saying.
02:46This is a few years.
02:47This is not quite situational because he had the point guard circumstance last year.
02:52You had an offense that prioritized him and got him the ball in places
02:56that I think he wants, even though we're starting to see the frustration this year
02:59with him not getting the ball where he wants,
03:01which let's put a pin in that and come back to it.
03:04But even just, hey, man, you are big.
03:06You're 6'10".
03:07You may not be the biggest dude in the post, right?
03:09There's obviously footers out there,
03:10legitimate seven-footers that you're playing against at times,
03:13dudes that are maybe heftier as well.
03:15But when you get an opportunity to have an open shot or a floater within five feet,
03:20those types of shots, you've got to knock those down at a higher clip.
03:23And we saw even some misses in this game end up being a problem.
03:26But this isn't just at this game time.
03:28We've seen him be problematic, shoot, score in like the 40%, 40%, 50% range.
03:34Was he last night, 8 for 20?
03:36Yeah, I think that's correct.
03:37But when you're inside there, the most efficient shot in basketball,
03:40you should be knocking that down in the 60%, especially as a big.
03:43And he's well below that, and that's not been new.
03:46And so it makes me wonder, is this going to be a touch thing that he can figure out?
03:50Because we can't keep doing all these post-ups that he wants to do.
03:55He's already not the super most efficient in post-ups.
03:57I don't have to give you the number there.
03:59But if you're not going to be able to take those and turn those into guaranteed buckets
04:02when you can put someone that close to the basket,
04:05that's going to be real problematic in the entire way we get this.
04:08Because it's not like he's a stretch big.
04:10He's not knocking down shots from the outside.
04:12If you're not going to have the touch to make those shots when you're in close,
04:15I can't run this through you, and how good of a big, and how good of an elite big,
04:20if we're going to try and consider you that, can you be if you can't do that consistently?
04:23Well, I think it's a dash of that.
04:26I think it's a dash of the fundamental.
04:30To me, it's more situational.
04:31Okay, which that would be encouraging if that's more of where we're at.
04:34I think it's more situational from two fronts.
04:36Clearly, he benefited a lot from Fred VanVleet and benefits some with Reed Shepard.
04:43But when he gets the ball on the post, he's kind of turning into a black hole.
04:48Like, he gets the ball, and he eats up so much of the shot clock,
04:55trying to get his shot or figure out what they're doing defensively
04:59and get the ball to the right person.
05:00I mean, it's tick, tick, tick.
05:02He's just eating up time on the shot clock, and that's a problem.
05:07That's a situational problem that either they need to adjust
05:10and get quicker out of the post, or he needs to get a shot up or a pass out.
05:16Both.
05:16Yeah.
05:16Both.
05:17I think it's incumbent on the player.
05:18I think about this with Joel Embiid.
05:20There was a point in time in his career where he just loved pounding the air
05:24out of basketball.
05:25And as a big, especially now that we don't have a legal defense,
05:28dudes can rotate over and load up on you, you need to make quick decisions.
05:32And I thought Joel Embiid took a huge leap earlier on in his career
05:35when he realized, I get this ball, go quick.
05:38If I'm going to go attack, go attack.
05:39If I'm going to pass, pass.
05:40But make that decision quickly.
05:41It felt like Alperin had figured some of that out maybe a couple months ago.
05:46You started seeing when they would kind of pass the ball out
05:49from double teams quickly because of that necessity.
05:51It feels like that hasn't been as consistent as it needs to be.
05:54So maybe that's situational there for him.
05:56And then the other part of this is, as Embiid is a coach
05:59and the entirety of the coaching staff, you have to see that
06:02and recognize that that's not the most efficient way to go about this,
06:05even if you want him to be a hub.
06:06And it shouldn't be your first option either.
06:09It can be, depending on the possession.
06:11But when you have Kevin Durant and you have Reed Shepard on the floor,
06:15hell, even with him and Thompson, which we're not all big fans of,
06:19him dominating the ball in a half-court game,
06:23I still think you need to get to Shen Goon when he's in a good spot,
06:27not necessarily get it to him and see what he can do with it.
06:30Yeah, and sometimes, not even sometimes,
06:32a lot of times when whoever's handling the ball for this team,
06:35outside of one dude who we'll get to here in a second,
06:38this is why they can get passes stolen very easily.
06:41It's very evident when they're trying to get the ball to this one guy.
06:44Reed Shepard is the dude who it shows up, I think, more often as more fluid,
06:48more normal getting into offense.
06:50So this is why I will lean very much with you on the reach to play more.
06:54Also, how do you quantify the defensive side of this for Alfred and Shen Goon?
06:58Does it fall into the situation or fundamental?
07:00Because I don't know how temporary we look at this even as well.
07:03He was playing a lot of drop defense, and it looked awful this past year,
07:07especially without that other big next to him to help make this really scary
07:12for other teams to go down into the post and get buckets at the rim.
07:16How do we view that?
07:17Is that fundamental or is that situational?
07:19Because if his defense is not going to be viable
07:22and he's not going to be otherworldly on offense like a Jokic or whatever,
07:27this is starting to get to a place where we have to have questions
07:30as to what his role is on this team,
07:32whether he could be the best player that you want him to be
07:34once Kevin Durant is through with this,
07:36or whether we need to change how we view him in a larger context.
07:41No, I think it is kind of my same answer.
07:46A lot of situational, but some fundamental,
07:49because clearly the situation is you don't have another big like, you know,
07:53Steven Adams or whomever who can really help you with your defense,
07:57or even just stop the ball as much.
08:01He's oftentimes very deep when he picks up the ball in the lane.
08:05Yeah.
08:05And that's, you're done, you know, if you're too deep.
08:08He didn't go out and get it.
08:09He doesn't have the help either from Steven Adams.
08:11But again, it's fair to question just how good he's been, you know,
08:15fundamentally on that.
08:17You know, his last 16 games, and this is more of an offensive stat,
08:21but his last 16 games, he's shooting 46%, man.
08:25He's shooting just general.
08:26Just field goal percentage, 46% in 16 games, and minus 12 average.
08:33Where are you at?
08:34And let me know on the text line, 713-572-4610.
08:38That's the base power text line, mind you.
08:39We were talking, when the idea of Giannis came up, right,
08:44the idea of trading for that big, people were split.
08:47And I think that just any time that we talked about trade,
08:49even dating back to before you end up acquiring Kevin Durant,
08:52a lot of people were looking around and going, no, the young core,
08:55the young core, the young core.
08:57We've gotten to a point where we're seeing more of the young core.
09:00Are you still in the young core portion of this, or are you now,
09:03especially as we're talking about how some of these things are situational,
09:06some of these things are fundamental, these issues that we have at Thalperin.
09:09Are you getting closer to the idea of bleep it, let me go get Giannis,
09:13because I know that he can do a lot of some of these things.
09:16Well, you know when this came up before,
09:18I was very much an advocate of getting Giannis, you know,
09:22just because of the way, you know, the things, obviously how good he was,
09:24the way he can finish and certainly offensively in transition and such.
09:29That wasn't to disparage, you know, Shen Goon by any stretch,
09:33because if they throw him into a package, you know, all of a sudden people are like,
09:36oh, no, let me ask you guys this then.
09:38Would you be against, you know, involving Shen Goon in any deal,
09:42you know, for Giannis?
09:45I think the answer is no.
09:46No, I don't think that I could be in a place where it's absolutely no.
09:49Yes, you would.
09:50Most people would have had a problem with that.
09:51I don't think people do now.
09:53No.
09:53Are we being unfair in not accounting for this thing that comes in on the text line?
09:57Alpy hasn't been right since he hurt his ankle on January 3rd?
10:01Maybe a little bit.
10:02I mean, he's...
10:03That would definitely be the temporary portion of this.
10:05Yeah, yeah.
10:06An injury is not allowing him to be the same version himself,
10:08which I think the defense part of that would be big.
10:11Maybe.
10:11There was times where coming off of a screen, you have somebody like a...
10:16Was it Guy Santos or maybe another player last night that's beaten him to the spot
10:20where I go, that shouldn't happen there?
10:22Yeah, yeah.
10:22And how much of that is the foot speed that it gets a little bit diced up
10:25with your ankle feeling, not necessarily in the best way?
10:28Now, of course, we're a couple months later, but you get what I'm saying.
10:30He hasn't really taken many days off since then.
10:32I don't know if that tracks with the idea of the touch
10:36or his inability to knock down three-pointers
10:38or his general demeanor where he's frustrated if he's not being involved directly,
10:43like if the plays aren't being run through him.
10:44You can see frustration building in some ways,
10:47and I think that's some of what Imei is balancing
10:49when sometimes you end up with admittedly an energy-stopping post-up possession
10:56for Alper Shengun, even if it's as far out as the three-point line.
10:59Yeah.
11:00Look, there is something going on with Alper and Shengun,
11:04and I think the ultimate answer is a little of all three of those things
11:08that you mentioned.
11:10For me, it could be a little bit of an injury-related thing.
11:13There's no question.
11:15But he doesn't fit well offensively like he did in the past.
11:19It's just too much of reliance on him in the post,
11:24and he's very good.
11:26He's an all-star, but he's not that guy.
11:28Do you feel like coaching can possibly change this?
11:32Yes.
11:32Like, look, I'm not sitting here saying fire Imei or whatever.
11:36Not yet.
11:36But do you feel like if they bring the right offensive coach in?
11:40Yes.
11:41That maybe this can change?
11:43This is how we started the show.
11:44I am not completely out on Imei Adoka,
11:48but I'm completely out on him knowing what's best offense for this squad,
11:51and that includes, you know, Shengun, obviously.
11:53And you've seen it a lot in the NBA where, you know,
11:56you've got this player that's not really meeting his max.
12:00And when you bring a certain coach in, then it's like, wow,
12:03he unlocked something.
12:05You kind of seen it with James Harden at one point
12:07when you brought in Mike D'Antoni.
12:09D'Antoni, yeah.
12:09And it's just like, wow, okay, this is a superstar right here.
12:13Yeah, and from the 2-8-1, mostly situational.
12:16There's some significant fundamentals in there.
12:18His touch around the rim, or lack thereof, back to the basket,
12:21dating back to the playoffs against the Warriors.
12:23That hurt you.
12:25But 7-1-3 said something that was interesting to me.
12:27Nobody's developing on offense because of the coaching staff.
12:30Yes.
12:31And if you really look at it, we're talking about Alper and Shengun,
12:34but Ben Thompson has had a little bit of a rough season.
12:38Jabari had a heat rock of a month or two here in a little bit,
12:44but he had some times where it was a little rough this season.
12:47I don't think I could put the Dorian Finney-Smith portion on this.
12:50Reid has definitely been better,
12:52but maybe he's been limited a little bit in that progress.
12:54I don't know even how I categorize Tari Eason.
12:57I don't think that's been one way or the other.
12:59But there's definitely a number of things that you could go.
13:03If you see enough data points of not progressing on one side of the ball,
13:07you do wonder how much of this then do we put under the entirety
13:09of the environment that's been built there.
13:12We all expected another step from all three of those guys
13:15that you just mentioned this year.
13:16I haven't seen it.
13:18So this is – I don't know that we have a definitive answer right now,
13:22and maybe we shouldn't, right?
13:23And maybe we still need to let the rest of the year play out.
13:26But I think that this is the context that I'm looking at Alper
13:28and Shengun under.
13:29How much of these things that display themselves as issues are fundamental
13:33because if you have enough of these stack up,
13:36you can't continue with the process of him being the foundational piece
13:40to what you're doing because if there's a fundamental issue
13:42with your foundational piece, you're not reaching the heights
13:44that you want to reach.
13:45Yeah, I agree.
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