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00:00Bay Area, this is Jonathan Kuminga.
00:02You're listening to Wheeler and Debs on 95.7 again.
00:07Yeah, we are, J.K.
00:09Yeah, Jonathan Kuminga will remain a Warrior dot, dot, dot for now.
00:13But if you're just joining us, Jonathan Kuminga and the Warriors have agreed to terms.
00:19They will not make it to deadline day, and it is not on the qualifying offer.
00:24Jonathan chooses, with a little extra money sprinkled in, a two-year deal with a team option for year two,
00:33which means it's really a one plus one.
00:35This is a one-year guaranteed deal with a Warriors option for year two at $48.5 million.
00:43Year one is $23 million.
00:45I need to ask some people out there, maybe send some text messages here in a little bit.
00:50But my understanding is, in keeping that year one contract at $23 million,
00:58it does leave the Warriors some control over their 15th and final roster spot,
01:05which has been rumored to be ready for Seth Curry.
01:08Not Steph Curry, Seth Curry.
01:11And I was very hopeful that he is going to be on the team, and so we'll see.
01:16We'll see about that.
01:17But we're taking your calls right now.
01:20The JK experience has finally got an answer.
01:23Both sides are in agreement that it is likely that come January, when eligible,
01:31Jonathan will be a part of trade discussions.
01:33So that doesn't change.
01:35But what does change, the threat of the qualifying offer
01:39and everybody being as angry as all get out, that's not going to happen.
01:43We also don't get the tension of the final day and the marching toward midnight Eastern tomorrow.
01:50We get training camp opening, and Jonathan Kaminga is on the team at $23 million this year.
01:57For me, and this isn't about I don't want to do who won the deal,
02:01because I think that in the end what I'm worried about is Warrior fans,
02:04and I think that this is as good of a conclusion as we can get right now.
02:10But I do want to say that I think the Warriors, in the end, did a great job here,
02:15because there were two things that they really, really were after, I think.
02:20One is control.
02:23That option needed to be a team option.
02:26It maximizes his trade value, and the Warriors were firm on that.
02:31And the second thing is we know Joe Lacob has been out somewhat in the public saying it.
02:36The second thing is they absolutely, unequivocally had to avoid the idea of losing Jonathan Kaminga for nothing.
02:45And this deal checks both of those boxes.
02:48So in the end, I think the Warriors, they did a good job in finding something that works for them
02:57in what was obviously a very challenging situation.
03:01Yeah, and I think that Aaron Turner, the agent, did a great job.
03:04And I want to personally thank him up front and just say, why?
03:09Because the deal got done today.
03:11If the deal got done yesterday, yesterday was already an unbelievable bleep show of emotion and topics with Melvin.
03:19And the Niners lost.
03:20And the Warriors media day.
03:21I mean, four o'clock on a Tuesday where we're starting to put Jacksonville in the rear view.
03:26There's playoff baseball, but I can't even watch it because I'm so nauseous.
03:30And Buster Posey, he spent a day doing nothing.
03:33So, yeah, you got it done on the Tuesday.
03:35Attaboy, Aaron Turner.
03:36And I also look at what they got.
03:38And I mentioned this to you last week or the week before.
03:42If I was Turner and Kaminga, this is what I would have aimed for.
03:45Because at the very worst, and it's not the worst because you're going to get $48.5 million.
03:51But if the Warriors have you for a year, they don't trade you, and they pick up your option, and you have to play there for two years, and you don't get to cook, and you get what you get, which is sporadic minutes.
04:02You get $48.5 million, and at that point, you are unrestricted, and you can put the deuces up, and you're gone.
04:09But the reality of the situation is your $23 million, which is on the books now, is so covetous and tradable that you are likely to get dealt.
04:19And I'm just looking at the list.
04:21DeMar DeRozan makes $24.5 million.
04:24Kyle Kuzma's making $22 million.
04:26Kentavious Caldwell-Pope is making $21 million.
04:29Marcus Smart's making the same.
04:31These are all guys on limited deals who are veterans, and we can play who fits the best later.
04:37But if you don't think Kaminga is the dude, there's a small list of guys who make about what he makes who you might like more than the way you like Kaminga.
04:46I know you love this reference.
04:47You know when Bob Barker on Price is Right used to do hole-in-one or two?
04:52Yeah, same thing here.
04:53They've got two chances to trade Jonathan Kaminga.
04:56It's this February, and in theory, the February after that.
05:00If it weren't to happen, and at that point, Jonathan would not just be a bendable contract at about $25 million.
05:09It would also be an expiring deal.
05:12Or it could be a sign-and-trade at that point.
05:14Yeah.
05:14So, I mean, there's a lot of options here.
05:17And again, what I know the Warriors really, really were against was the idea of losing the asset.
05:22I hate calling players assets, but losing the asset for nothing.
05:26And now this gives them, in theory, two winters, if needed, to find the right deal and help the current core of Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler and Draymond Green.
05:38I'm sure the Warriors and Jonathan would probably want that this time around versus next time around.
05:45I think that there's a lot of room for feelings to come back up if you do that.
05:49But in theory, the Warriors keep the team option on a two-year deal.
05:54Jonathan will make a lot of money.
05:55Hopefully, he plays and plays great and fits and all of that.
05:59But that's kind of for another day and a whole other month and a whole other life, quite frankly.
06:05Most importantly, what the Warriors now have is an incredibly movable contract that will be coveted by other teams around the league.
06:15Yeah, especially if you're a team that wanted him before.
06:17And I mentioned DeMar DeRozan, who's making just a tick more.
06:21And he's got a two-year deal.
06:23So if you're in this two-year Steph Curry window, I don't know how much you think DeMar DeRozan fits because he's more of a high-volume scorer.
06:30But the dude can score.
06:31So if he is your sixth man and he's able to come in in your backcourt and be a scorer, that might be somebody you could be interested in.
06:39Sacramento has already been open about liking Jonathan Kaminga.
06:43We heard the agent talk about B.J. Armstrong reaching out to them.
06:47B.J., of course, now working for Sacramento.
06:49So there are many of these dominoes that are going to fall in much of this topic that we can get into down the road.
06:55But for now, if you want to talk about who won the deal, I think the Warriors won it in a slightly greater way because now they're almost guaranteed to not lose the asset for nothing.
07:07If they have him here for two years and after two years they don't get anything for Kaminga, well, that's on the Warriors even more so than it would have been.
07:15But now they've got the control.
07:17They've got control of Kaminga.
07:19They can trade him in January.
07:20You mentioned they can trade him in July.
07:22They can trade him the following January.
07:24And they can do a number of different things to make sure they recoup something.
07:29Ideally, Kaminga plays great and you win the championship this year.
07:33That'd be awesome.
07:34That'd be awesome.
07:34And that's what everyone's hoping for.
07:36Listen, after everything that all of this has all been through, I kind of want to avoid the whole who won the deal thing.
07:42I get where you're coming from, but I just kind of want to know how people feel about the final answer, which we now have.
07:50Jonathan stays for now.
07:52Two-year deal.
07:54$48.5 million.
07:56Team option for year two.
07:58It's a one-year guarantee at $23 million.
08:01It leaves room for the 15th roster spot.
08:03That might be Seth Curry.
08:05We'll see.
08:06But, Warrior fans, how do you feel about the answer where we have arrived?
08:11888-957-9570.
08:14We will take your calls right now and throughout the afternoon here on Willard & Dibbs 95.7 The Game.
08:19We also want to bring to this party the commentary that many of you may have missed.
08:24And it came from the Warriors at Media Day yesterday.
08:27And as Dibbs said, it kind of got largely swallowed up because the Niners had just lost a frustrating game.
08:33The quarterback's hurt again.
08:35And Bomell has been fired.
08:37And so, we just didn't get to a lot of this.
08:39But it's still interesting, even though we now have our final answer.
08:45And that is Steph Curry and Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler talking about the situation that Jonathan Kaminga at that time was in.
08:54So, let's start with this.
08:55Here's what Steph said his message to Kaminga was.
08:59Negotiations are hard.
09:00We all know that.
09:01The idea of everybody's situation is a little different.
09:04Everybody can come up with whatever narrative they want to.
09:07It's how business kind of goes.
09:10You know, some things are pretty straightforward.
09:12Some things aren't.
09:13This is definitely in the aren't conversation or category.
09:16But when he comes and he's here, he should be a professional and do it exactly what he expects to do and take advantage of his opportunities to help us win.
09:26Everybody who's in the locker room, that's what you're committed to do.
09:29And so, I don't have any concerns that he'll approach it that way.
09:33And that's what we expect.
09:36Okay.
09:36And I think that's the next important question.
09:39And I actually have a pretty high level of confidence on that, which is that this is kind of a deal that I would hope allows for at least on the temporary sense, it allows for the locker room to stay okay.
09:54It allows for Jonathan to come in and be working for a team goal as opposed to an individual goal.
10:02Still have concerns.
10:04No question.
10:05Because this is tough now.
10:06Let's not make it sound easy.
10:07I have no concerns about that.
10:09Okay.
10:09That's fine.
10:10I mean, because Kaminga's never, in my eyes, he's never played like he has individual goals.
10:15And if he was on the qualifying offer, I would worry about that.
10:19But now that he's got this deal and he's making $23 million, I don't think that it does him any good to play in that fashion.
10:28I would argue that, and I would bet you a billion dollars that in a private room Steve Kerr would tell you that he absolutely plays sometimes with individual goals in mind.
10:37That's the problem.
10:39That's the problem that they've had.
10:40And so now he's being paid, and they all know the agreement is to kind of kick the can down the road.
10:48But this doesn't change anything.
10:50Jonathan is not like, yay, I'm a Warriors now.
10:53Like, if Jonathan wanted to really be a Warrior, he'd have signed the three-year deal.
10:56But he signed the two-year deal.
10:58So I hear what you're saying.
11:00I think it's challenging because Jonathan is still going to be thinking about who he thinks he can be, maximizing his value.
11:08I don't blame him for these things.
11:09It's hard to achieve that in limited minutes on a team that wants you to maybe play in a little bit of a different fashion.
11:16It's challenging.
11:17I'm not saying it's not doable, but it's very challenging.
11:21As you all know, Aaron Turner, Kaminga's agent, came on for a long time with Steine and Goo.
11:28And there was the implication that Jonathan plays better when he gets the minutes and will play better if he gets the contract that he wants.
11:38Steph had something he wanted to say about that.
11:41When his agent comes out and says, you know, if we get the contract we want, we'll be committed to doing everything we can to win a championship.
11:48What is your reaction to something like that and the idea of, like, conditional commitment?
11:52I only listen to my teammate.
11:54I don't listen to agents or anybody who's speaking on behalf.
11:57Like, I hear that from J.K.
11:59What have you heard from J.K.?
12:00He'll be committed when he gets here.
12:01I just know from man to man, he doesn't want to have to be in the way of anything.
12:06So let that situation play out.
12:08He can speak for himself.
12:09Okay.
12:09Love to hear that.
12:10That's a phenomenal answer.
12:11Which is hilarious because Steph Curry hears everything.
12:14He's the petty king.
12:15So I have no doubt that he listened to every single second of that interview.
12:20But that's the correct answer.
12:21I don't listen to anybody other than my teammates.
12:23So when his teammate gets in, and hopefully it's tomorrow or I don't know when it will be, I'm sure there will be conversations about, you know, with Draymond and probably not Jimmy because Jimmy's not.
12:34Jimmy was basically like, I don't even want to.
12:36Jimmy's like, where's Buddy?
12:37I feel like teasing somebody.
12:38Steph and Draymond, I'm sure, in a, you know, player-to-player conversation will be like, okay, you know, I know it's not ideal.
12:45But if you want the best for you and the best for us, they're the same thing, which is you go out and you play and you do what you do.
12:52And the question was a fair one.
12:54I do think that the agent, not that he misspoke, but what he was trying to say is if Kaminga gets regular minutes, then he is going to be better at all these things.
13:04The way it came out was if he plays, he'll rebound.
13:07If he doesn't play, he won't rebound.
13:09I mean, well, he was also talking about the past.
13:12Like, he pointed to data where he's like, if you notice that when he gets 25 minutes, then he plays hard.
13:20And I was like, ooh, good Lord, do you realize what you're saying right now?
13:24It's a terrible look.
13:25And I'm with you.
13:26I don't think he meant it to come out that way, but it clearly did.
13:30That's the way it came out.
13:31It clearly did.
13:32Yep.
13:32All right.
13:33We'd love to hear from you, Jay, in San Jose.
13:35First up, 888-957-9570, what is your reaction?
13:40How are you feeling as a fan with this final kind of reality to the J.K. situation?
13:48A two-year deal, $48.5 million.
13:51It's a team option for year two, $23 million for year one, and J.K. stays for now.
13:58Jay in San Jose.
13:59Hi, Jay.
13:59Thanks for the call.
14:02Yeah, thanks for having me.
14:05So my conversation is more about the narrative at first was that
14:10Comminger doesn't fit now that we got Jimmy Butler.
14:14If he doesn't fit then and we still got Jimmy now,
14:19why is it all of a sudden that ain't the conversation?
14:21If they had to go behind closed doors and say,
14:25if you sign this contract, two years, team option,
14:28why won't you just say, we're going to trade you right after that?
14:32You make yourself more tradable.
14:34So now I'm going into, you know, media day, everything is smooth.
14:40Well, Jay, I think it is that.
14:41And now it's as if, does he fit now?
14:44Well, I don't think that, so here, it's a fair question.
14:49I still don't think it has an answer.
14:51I can tell you because we've talked about this so much
14:54and talked to Steve so much about it.
14:56And Jay, stay on.
14:57I'd love for your reaction to this.
14:58I think the Warriors would tell you that whether or not JK can now fit
15:03is still a question that they couldn't really get an answer to
15:07in a short period of time.
15:09Jimmy's on the team.
15:10They're playing very well.
15:12Jonathan comes back from injury.
15:14They try to jam him in there and make it work.
15:17Like, the team kind of starts playing worse so they get to the playoffs
15:21and feel like we don't have any more time to experiment with this.
15:24I think they'd like more time to experiment with it,
15:27and they now have a little bit more time and less high leverage moments.
15:32So that's point one.
15:33But your other point about a trade, like, that's still very much out there.
15:37We're not kidding ourselves.
15:39The reason the Warriors did this deal was not because he now fits.
15:43It's because this is the best way for them to hold on to the asset
15:46and see if they can try to get something for them on the market down the road.
15:54What do you think, Jay?
15:58I think – I just think – I'm just sick of the narrative
16:02as if every time Steve Kerr says something a certain way,
16:06we've got to run with it as if we're not educated basketball people.
16:11I've never heard someone say your best player or most athletic player
16:16young and talented don't fit because you've got another person.
16:21You figure it out.
16:22So now we transfer to the DNPs and we're giving them benefits of the doubt
16:26because whatever.
16:29But let's go back to the Olympics.
16:31Look at Jason Tatum out on the court.
16:33This guy is a hard worker, don't cause trouble with nobody.
16:36First day, DNP, Steve Kerr trying to say, oh, we didn't know.
16:41We forgot.
16:42Then he'd do it again and then he'd try to say, oh, it was a matchup problem.
16:46What I'm trying to say is there's a certain type of player
16:49that Steve Kerr just doesn't like and we try to feed it as if it's all about basketball.
16:55Yeah, Jay, listen.
16:56What is that type of player, I wonder?
16:59Jay?
16:59I mean, Jay, you're basically saying that he doesn't like athletic wings.
17:03Is that what you're getting at?
17:08All right, Jay's non-responsive.
17:11Yeah, as far as the fit goes, I do believe that there is credence to the discussion
17:16about having some lead time and some practice time and the ability to try it out
17:22in, I don't know, October in preseason games and early in the season.
17:26And if you look at when Jimmy came and J.K. wasn't there,
17:29by the time Jonathan Kaminga came back, he didn't get DNPs, by the way, right away.
17:35Not at all.
17:35And I'm looking at the log here.
17:36It was 20, 20, 27, 23.
17:39He played minutes.
17:40He played basketball games and Jimmy Butler was out there.
17:43So they got a look at it and then you got into that high leverage spot
17:47and they didn't feel like he was the right fit for those games and those combinations.
17:52Yeah, and I really, look, there's going to be high-level disagreement here.
17:55I do not think that Steve Kerr doesn't like a certain type of basketball player.
18:01Like when Jay says, and you hear this from everybody,
18:04he's your most athletic player.
18:06Figure it out.
18:07Well, who's that on?
18:09Who's that on?
18:10Who needs to figure it out?
18:12Because there is absolutely a give and take here.
18:15Do the Warriors want J.K. on the floor?
18:17Well, in a lot of situations they do.
18:20But figure it out also means you need to play a certain way.
18:25The offense goes through Steph Curry.
18:28And when Steph Curry's not there, it goes through Jimmy Butler.
18:31And does Jonathan see the court and want to do that?
18:34The answer is not always.
18:35And that's a fact.
18:37You can go look at video.
18:38You can look at the analytics.
18:40That's a fact.
18:41Is that all on Jonathan?
18:42It's not all on Jonathan.
18:45But this isn't about Steve not liking a certain type of player.
18:50And it's not about that kind of player.
18:54An athletic player doesn't fit.
18:55It's often about what the Warriors are doing, what their approach is,
19:00and then what that player, what decisions that player makes
19:04when he gets onto the floor.
19:06And I don't even hold this against him.
19:07He's 22.
19:08And he's trying to maximize his value.
19:11That's what human beings do.
19:12And when he played before Jimmy came,
19:14he was given license to play a certain way.
19:17He was basically your No. 2 scorer.
19:20And he was able to go out there and cook.
19:22And when Jimmy came and he got healthy,
19:24it was no longer go cook because when you get into ISO,
19:27Jimmy Butler is better than almost anybody in the league at that.
19:30So now, Kaminga had to be a different player,
19:32and that doesn't fit what he does.
19:33And the bottom line, no matter what everyone wants,
19:36because everyone's trying to rewrite history on this,
19:38this is just true.
19:40When Jimmy arrived, the Warriors got better.
19:43And whether or not the Warriors had a winning record with Jonathan
19:46before Jimmy, and then they're losing record with him.
19:49The bottom line is, prior to Jimmy, they weren't good enough.
19:52And then after Jimmy, they were.
19:54That's it.
19:54And yes, it's unfortunate that Jonathan was hurt when that happened.
19:58But to ask the Warriors to stop doing what they were doing,
20:02which was the first thing that had been working at a high level
20:05in like a year and a half, is crazy talk.
20:08It was working.
20:09So you keep going.
20:10And you try to put Jonathan in.
20:11That didn't help it.
20:12Okay, now we're in the playoffs.
20:14What do you do?
20:15Is DNP a little heavy-handed?
20:18Sure, you make that case if you want.
20:20But I get it.
20:21You know, it's like a starting pitcher in Game 7.
20:24You gave up a run, you're out.
20:27It's like, we don't have time for this.
20:29In the playoffs, yeah, absolutely.
20:30You know what I mean?
20:31I mean, you got Butler.
20:32Like you said, your team changed.
20:34You got better.
20:34You started winning.
20:35And Kaminga came back.
20:37And even his agent said, you know, when JK came back,
20:39he wasn't at 100%.
20:41Okay, I believe that.
20:42He had a severe ankle sprain that cost him two months.
20:45And so not only when he came back was he not used to playing with Jimmy Butler,
20:49he also wasn't 100%.
20:51And the role they were asking him to play was more of a 3 and D guy.
20:55And I just was looking, Mark, he shot 14% from 3 after Jimmy came on the team.
21:00So if you're Kaminga, you're probably frustrated because that's not your game.
21:04And the game you want to play is not available, as you always like to say,
21:08because you had Jimmy and Steph who were more of the volume shooters.
21:11You needed Kaminga to be more of a Moses Moody type.
21:14And that doesn't really suit his game right now.
21:16No question about it.
21:18888-957-9570.
21:20Matt in San Rafael.
21:21Hi, Matt.
21:21Thanks for the call.
21:22What's up?
21:24Hey, guys.
21:25So first, glad I'm talking dubs instead of Niners because I'm very worried about Thursday.
21:30It's interesting because I've been a Kaminga sort of detractor for his entire career at the Warriors
21:38because he's so talented and has so much to bring.
21:42And I just keep seeing him sort of not getting to where he needs to be.
21:46But the more I've looked at it, the more I think that it's been the situation as well as him.
21:51Let me explain.
21:52When the dubs would play him out of necessity, they would say, do this, which is not really kind of the Warriors way or the Kerr way.
22:01It's like, go score points because we've got injuries.
22:04You've got to be the man.
22:05And it's got to feel great.
22:07And he loves it.
22:08And he's actually good at that as far as his game.
22:11And then all of a sudden they say, all right, now we need you to play within this scheme.
22:16And he's going, well, wait a minute.
22:18I'm good at this.
22:19I'm not good at the other thing.
22:21And it seems like I'm constantly being punished because I don't fit this square peg into your round hole the way you want me to.
22:30So now what I think has happened is the dubs are like, look, we've got to see if this is going to work.
22:34And we don't want to lose the asset.
22:35So phenomenal deal for the dubs in that they have control.
22:39I read that he turned down a three-year to maintain control.
22:42I think the dubs are going to play training camp, maybe 20 games, see if he works.
22:46And if he doesn't, they move him and they get some assets for him instead of nothing.
22:50If he does work, which would be fantastic, what you have is a phenomenal player potentially who can not only maybe shoot something from the outside, not great.
23:00But, man, if he can learn to slash and finish on a consistent basis and defend, he's going to bring in elements of the dubs that they haven't had.
23:09They just haven't had.
23:10Matt, that's a good call.
23:12Thank you, Matt.
23:12I agree completely.
23:14However, there's a piece of this I still find a little far-fetched in this moment, which is that Jonathan will now come back.
23:20He'll play great within this system.
23:22And everybody will ride off into the sunset together and Jonathan will want to stay.
23:26I don't think that's going to happen.
23:28I don't either.
23:28Because that's not what Jonathan wants.
23:30Jonathan wants to go try to be an all-star and a Hall of Famer.
23:34And that's wonderful.
23:35What a great goal.
23:36If he sees that himself, don't try to get in the way of others' goals.
23:40We'll see how this evolves.
23:43But Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
23:46And I don't think Jonathan wants to wait until 2029 to give that a shot.
23:51And so hopefully he plays well in the near term.
23:55I still think everybody is going to be highly motivated to trade him as soon as possible.
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