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00:00I'll read what you said.
00:01You said the Yankees, they're not a good team.
00:04I don't care what their record is.
00:06They have a lot of wild pitches.
00:07They make a lot of mistakes in the field.
00:10They don't run the bases very well.
00:12It came and went, but then Aaron Boone decided to see if he could give it CPR before game one
00:18and said, contrary to some thoughts up here, we're a really good team.
00:24Buck, it's your forum.
00:26Go.
00:27Damn, you know what, damn, Joe.
00:28So, John, there is a kind of a man of the hour right now in the postseason,
00:34and he isn't just a guy striking people out from the mound like Esavage or Schlittler.
00:38It's Buck Martinez who's made some news this postseason.
00:41Yeah, a well-timed guest.
00:43I don't know if he predicted, but he mentioned in September 9th that Yankees aren't such a great team,
00:50and right now the Blue Jays, the team he broadcasts for, is killing the Yankees after two games.
00:54The Yankees haven't been brutal on the field and making mistakes, but they are being killed right now by his team.
01:01So, it'll be interesting to hear what he has to say about that.
01:03Yeah, we'll ask him what he thinks of this version of the Yankees, what he thinks of this version of the Blue Jays,
01:08why the series is going this way, and a lot more.
01:12John and I will talk about the Yankees and a lot about Aaron Judge at the top of the show.
01:17We'll play hit and error at the end if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Hayman.
01:26John, we've got to give some time reference here because we're talking the morning before Game 3 at night
01:35at Yankee Stadium, Blue Jays and Yankees, with the Yankees trying to keep their season alive.
01:41They need a three-game winning streak, obviously.
01:43They can't do that without winning on Tuesday night, sending Carlos Rodon out against Shane Bieber.
01:49And, John, I wonder if I could start here.
01:51The Yankees might get swept, and I actually think they're a better team than last year's team that went to the World Series.
01:57I think they're better rounded.
02:00They're not addicted to do Soto and Judge get hits or, in the playoffs, do Soto and Stanton get hits.
02:06They're just better all around, and yet they've hit this roadblock.
02:11The Blue Jays, who, especially in Toronto, they have not been able to beat this year.
02:15I think they're 1-8, as we're speaking, John, in Rogers Center.
02:21What do you think about where they are and who they are?
02:24Yeah, I mean, the team's tied. 94 wins in the regular season.
02:29The Blue Jays have looked so much better.
02:30I mean, it was at one point they had outscored the Yankees 22-1, right?
02:34Now it's a little bit better once the Blue Jays put in the underbelly of that mediocre bullpen.
02:40The Yankees scored some runs, but basically they've gotten killed the first two games, right?
02:4510-1 and 13-7, doing well in the garbage inning.
02:48So, I mean, it is two games. That's the way the playoffs are.
02:51I do think the Yankees are better. I agree with you.
02:55Certainly, McMahon is a nice third baseman.
02:58The moves in the winter were very good.
03:00Bellinger, very good.
03:02Freed, I mean, Freed was a little perplexed after the game, right?
03:05I mean, he didn't say, I'm perplexed, but he said his stuff was good.
03:09He was throwing it where he wanted to, and yet they still hit it.
03:12I don't know whether, you know, Luke Weaver said they had tips on him,
03:15or he was told they had tips on him.
03:18Maybe they have tips on everybody.
03:19I don't know, are the Blue Jays really good at that?
03:21It just seemed weird that they were killing basically all the Yankee pitchers.
03:26Yeah, but the Red Sox have tips on Luke Weaver, too?
03:29I mean, it was the same situation.
03:31He faced three batters, didn't get any out against Boston,
03:33faced three batters in Toronto.
03:35Look, we live in a conspiracy theory universe.
03:37Everyone believes everyone else is nefarious.
03:39I'd like to believe, after what happened to the reputations, punishments, etc.,
03:46of the 2017 Astros, that nobody would do something over crazy.
03:49I'm just saying they've picked up tips on the pitchers.
03:53I don't think there's anything wrong with it.
03:55If they can do it on every pitcher, I don't know.
03:57I mean, every Yankee pitcher they've thrown out there,
04:00I guess Hill and Doval were okay, right?
04:03But basically, the pitchers have gotten killed.
04:06Blue Jays are the first team that scored 23 runs
04:09in the first two games of a playoff series.
04:11So, I don't know.
04:13I mean, maybe they're just that good.
04:14During the regular season, the Yankees scored more runs than they did.
04:18They do have a solid offense.
04:20They're missing Bichette.
04:21But I don't think anybody saw this coming.
04:23Yeah, and John, all I was going to say is,
04:26if it's brinksmanship, if it's gamesmanship on the field
04:28or preparation beforehand, I mean, the rest of the sport thinks
04:32the team that does that the most is the Yankees,
04:34that their coaches are very involved in the game,
04:37the first and third base coach.
04:39And as we see where they do the wide circle at second base,
04:42where they're relaying signs from the first base coach
04:45about what pitch is coming, paranoia is quite a thing
04:50when you're the nefarious one or not.
04:52Again, that's a terrible word.
04:54I'm sorry.
04:54I want to retract that.
04:56It's all gamesmanship if it's just to the field.
05:00And it is what it is.
05:01John, just within that, the Yankees are a better all-around team
05:05in every way pretty much than last year.
05:08And yet, they're still a three-point shooting team, right?
05:10They're a home-run team.
05:12And if they're going to lose the home-run battle 8-1,
05:15and Vosho's going to have more homers than them,
05:19Kirk's going to have more homers than them,
05:21and Vlad is going to be the biggest star in the series
05:23and have more homers than them, there's just no escape.
05:26The Blue Jays are winning the star game, Vlad.
05:30They're winning the chorus game.
05:31They're winning the starting pitching game.
05:33They deserve to be up wide to nothing.
05:36So I ask you about that, but also how do the Yankees even begin
05:39to mount a comeback against this?
05:42First on Vlad, I do think he does hate the Yankees.
05:45He's become political now that he's the highest-paid player
05:48in American League history with a $500 million deal.
05:51He's maybe a little mature.
05:53I don't know.
05:53We liked it when he was telling us exactly why he hated the Yankees,
05:56but he stopped doing that.
05:58But I have talked to teammates.
05:59I went yesterday and talked to a teammate, and he said, you know,
06:02he really loves the booing of the fans.
06:04And, you know, he has over a 1,000 OPS at Yankee Stadium lifetime.
06:09And, look, he's not an errant judge, right?
06:11I mean, a 1,000 OPS is pretty darn good.
06:14This teammate said he revels in the booing, loves it,
06:17and really reacts to it.
06:19Now, obviously, he got six hits up in, I was going to say, the Sky Dome.
06:23Roger Center, I'm that old.
06:25But, you know, he does not like the Yankees.
06:29No matter what he says politically, every team's the same.
06:32I get the same energy.
06:33He was not hitting home runs coming in here.
06:35The last few weeks, he had been in a slump, really, in terms of power.
06:39And he turned it on when he saw the Yankees.
06:41Maybe that's it.
06:42I don't know.
06:43In terms of how the Yankees get back in it, I mean, they're at home.
06:47That's certainly better.
06:49I think they have the advantage in the pitching matchups over the next two days.
06:54I thought that the first two days, and I was dead wrong.
06:57We shall see.
06:58Bieber has been pretty good, but Rodon has been better.
07:02Game four, you know, Toronto's throwing a bullpen game, I guess.
07:05I don't know.
07:06That's been somewhat effective.
07:07But their bullpen's not that good.
07:09So up until Yosavich comes back in game five,
07:13and I'm giving Yosavich the edge over Freed at this point, which is crazy,
07:16the Yankees do have the advantage in the bullpen.
07:19Well, I think Gosman would start five, right, for Toronto,
07:23and Yosavich would just be available.
07:25Well, I don't – yeah.
07:27Either way – it could go either way, right?
07:29I mean, Yosavich could pitch, right?
07:31Yeah, I mean, in theory, if Freed could start, Yosavich could start.
07:34I just – I think the plan was Gosman, but, like, the plan didn't see Yosavich pitch.
07:40Yeah, they took him out after five and a third.
07:42They had no hits and 11 strikeouts, right?
07:45I don't know.
07:45I'm going with Yosavich.
07:46I know Gosman is good, and he did well, too.
07:49But the history of it is that Judge and these other guys do get to Gosman pretty well, right?
07:55Yosavich has still never given up a hit to the Yankees, and he has been dynamic.
08:00I mean, Tampa faced him twice, and they were a disaster against him.
08:03Only Kansas City was on him a bit.
08:05And I talked to Yosavich yesterday, and he said he just didn't have his fastball command that day.
08:10If he has his fastball command second time, maybe a little bit better.
08:14I don't know.
08:15You're going to have to probably play Goldschmidt instead of Rice, but does that do it?
08:18I mean, basically, nobody looked good.
08:20I know Judge walked on four pitches, but nobody looked good against him.
08:24So I'm thinking they're going to give him a run in that.
08:27Maybe it'll be a combo of Gosman and Yosavich.
08:29But to me, Yosavich is –
08:31He'll be a piece of it, at the very least.
08:34He'll be a piece if they get –
08:36Like, where do the Yankees sign up to try to figure out how to hit Yosavich again?
08:40Because it means there would be a game five.
08:42So they're going to sign up.
08:42Maybe a second time around, maybe they'll do a little bit better.
08:45Certainly, they'll be – have more time to think about it, and they had some experience there.
08:50But, you know, you would think Freed has the advantage over, you know, anybody over Skeens or Skubal.
08:58But in this circumstance, I'm not so sure.
09:01We've got to get there, first of all.
09:02So the Yankees do have the home field.
09:04They do have the pitching edges in the next two games, in my opinion.
09:07They do have a shot.
09:09Certainly don't have the momentum.
09:11Toronto's feeling good.
09:12I mean, the Yankees can't be feeling too good about this right now.
09:15John, you mentioned a name when you mentioned the walk in there.
09:18I'm going to talk about him a little.
09:20I wonder what you think.
09:21That's Aaron Judge.
09:23The Yankees cannot get from here to there unless he gets not just hits, but big hits.
09:28It's hard to be critical of somebody who's 8 for 18 in the postseason with two walks because it's hard to hit in general.
09:35It's hard to hit in the postseason.
09:37But this has been low impact.
09:39It's seven singles and a double.
09:41He got a gift RBI against Boston.
09:44It was a gift hit, even, when Jaron Duran dropped the ball.
09:47His other RBI came with them down 13-2 in game two of this series.
09:54His lifetime stuff is not great.
09:57And in the postseason, I went and looked it up.
10:01You know, there's that WPA, the low.
10:05The probability added.
10:06Yeah.
10:06Well, thank you, John.
10:08Because I was around for Sky Dome also.
10:11My brain doesn't work that great.
10:12Wind probability added for all of his play 230, 40, whatever it is, plate appearances in the postseason.
10:18His five biggest ones, four have come in losses, four have come before the fifth inning, and one was a two-run homer off of Jack Flaherty in game five of the World Series last year, John, where a few innings later he would make a defensive blunder in center field that would trigger the downfall inning for the Yankees.
10:36Like, he has not had a Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, Reggie Jackson, like the great Yankee moment.
10:43And I don't know how they get a three-game winning streak without him.
10:50Well, they do have other very good hitters.
10:52Everybody in that lineup, if Goldschmidt's not playing, they all have 20 home runs this year, counting the Volpe homer in the wild card round.
11:02So they have a very well – not only do they have the best hitter in the game, they have a very well-balanced team.
11:07Aaron Judge has two issues here.
11:09He's got two problems.
11:10One is that he's so great.
11:11You know, he's the best hitter, at least since Barry Bonds, if you count Barry Bonds.
11:16So at least that far.
11:17Best hitter in baseball.
11:18And the other thing is he has not been as good in the postseason as he has been in the regular season.
11:23It's been quite a gap.
11:24So he's got two issues because there's no other circumstance where we're now dissecting a guy hitting .444.
11:30But, I mean, I certainly get it.
11:32You know, and he probably understands.
11:37He's the man.
11:38The most is expected of him.
11:39You know, if this series closes out, they don't win, and he hits 400 plus, he's going to be remembered, unfortunately for him, for that one at bat.
11:49That was the key at bat, right?
11:50I mean, it was bases loaded.
11:52Nobody out.
11:53It was a close game at that point.
11:55Two to nothing.
11:55And he struck out on a 3-2 pitch that was out of the zone.
12:00Gossman said in the interview room later he would have been okay walking him.
12:03I didn't want to really pace him.
12:05Nobody's avoided Judge more than the Blue Jays over the regular season, intentionally walking him the most.
12:13So he would have been okay with a walk, yet Judge swung and missed.
12:16That's the one we're going to remember.
12:17We're not going to remember the other 17 at bats and eight hits, which is almost a 500 batting average.
12:23So it's a little unfair, yet I get it.
12:26I mean, I certainly understand it.
12:28You know, especially when the Blue Jays star is hitting grand slams and just killing it.
12:37And so.
12:38The Blue Jays star, John, has now played eight total postseason games.
12:41The first six weren't very good.
12:43He has a couple of bigger hits in these two games than Judge has in 63 postseason games.
12:51I'll give you.
12:52I guess Cleveland was a big hit.
12:53I mean, he didn't know they were losing that game when he hit.
12:56Okay.
12:57So that's a big hit.
13:01John, here's the other one.
13:03And you, because you did say there is a way to come back because they have a good lineup.
13:06But of the last 18 teams that went down 0-2, 17 have lost.
13:13The one that won was the 2017 Yankees.
13:16Right.
13:17Judge in those three games where they rallied to win, went 1-for-13 with 11 strikeouts.
13:21They won in spite of him.
13:23You got some good stats today.
13:25I got to give it to you.
13:26You got all the stats.
13:26Well, I mean, it's just, we're watching a historically great player, a unanimous Hall of Fame type player, a one of the 20 maybe greatest hitters regular season who's ever played.
13:43He's possibly about to win a third AL MVP.
13:45But part of the distinguishing factor of the Yankees not getting from here to the Canyon of Heroes the last nine years is that he hasn't been able to deliver the put him on the back kind of moments that his Hall of Fame, MVPs, greatest hitter ever befits.
14:06And it lessens the star, especially for the Yankees, who are built around 27 championships.
14:13They're built around Mr. October.
14:14They're built around Mr. November.
14:16Unfortunately, they have some history of Mr. May also.
14:20Right.
14:21And it's at this point, he doesn't even have like a Tino Martinez moment, you know, who had a couple.
14:28And I wasn't a particularly good postseason player, but he had moments that carried them forward.
14:34And I just think that this historic player needs it.
14:39Yeah.
14:40I mean, I get it.
14:40You know, I don't know if he gets it.
14:42I probably does.
14:43He's a smart guy.
14:44Yeah, he needs a big moment.
14:46You know, we saw other superstars go through this.
14:49Bonds, certainly A-Rod.
14:50You mentioned reference Winfield without using his actual surname.
14:55So, you know, it is harder to hit in the postseason.
14:58Normally, it's colder.
14:59So far, it's been beautiful.
15:01The pitching is better.
15:02And I do think they are, you know, other teams, particularly the Jays, are into avoidance of him.
15:09So, but the other guys have overcome it.
15:11Right.
15:11Reggie was incredible in October, as he'll tell you.
15:15He was amazing, right, in the postseason.
15:19Mickey Mantle, a 900 OPS in the postseason.
15:25Garrig and Ruth, even better.
15:27Now, that's, you know, before we had, you know, integration.
15:31So, you know, I'm putting an asterisk on that, too.
15:33And relief pitching at this level.
15:35Right.
15:36It's not easy.
15:38I'll say that.
15:38But he is Aaron Judge.
15:40He is going to, I think he's going to win the MVP again.
15:43It'll be a third time.
15:44And Yankee fans will tell you it should be four times.
15:46I think he'll win it.
15:47No guarantee.
15:48Obviously, Raleigh was fantastic.
15:50Yeah.
15:50I mean, I get it.
15:52Is it fair?
15:53You know, I'll have to think about that a little bit more.
15:56Well, there's fair to me, and there's sports fair.
16:00You know, like in real life, this wouldn't be fair.
16:02But, like, the analogy I use is sometimes the starting quarterback gets hurt and the
16:06backup quarterback gets in.
16:08And if you'd like to keep playing or get a job someplace else, that's the window.
16:12Like, this is not like the rest of the world.
16:15The chances sometimes are very, very brief to do something spectacular.
16:21And this is not brief anymore.
16:24It's 63 games.
16:26And it's hard to recall.
16:29I mean, John, big picture postseason, the thing we remember most about Judge is dropping
16:34the fly ball.
16:36This postseason, he's 8 for 18.
16:38We remember a strikeout against Gosman with the bases loaded.
16:42He would be better off being 1 for 13 with a grand slam this postseason.
16:46And what he is doing?
16:48I'm not sure.
16:48I'm not sure about that.
16:49No matter what he does, unless he has one of those final postseasons that A-Rod had in
16:552009 or Barry Bonds had in a losing effort against the Angels.
16:58But he is A-Rod.
16:59He is, I mean, clean.
17:01But like, he is that.
17:02That's the stature of the player, John.
17:05Right.
17:05It's not.
17:06Let's give him more credit for clean than one word.
17:09Yeah.
17:09Yeah.
17:10Yeah.
17:10It's the stature of the player befits that he needs to rise his thing, all rise.
17:19At this moment, and be spectacular.
17:23At some point, just carry him through, like for a series.
17:27And it has not happened in lots and lots of series at this point, dating back to 2017.
17:32And again, I just don't know how against this team that gives them so many fits, especially
17:39at their ballpark.
17:40It just feels like there's a weight on him.
17:43And he's the one hitting.
17:44I agree with you, John.
17:45It's unfair.
17:46He's the one who's 8 for 18 this postseason.
17:49Stanton is hitting the hell out of the ball, but it's on the ground a lot.
17:52So he hasn't had much to show for it.
17:55You know, like there's a lot of Trent Grisham has had a terrible postseason, but he's Trent
17:58Grisham.
17:59This is Aaron Judge.
18:01You know.
18:02We can't get on Stanton because he has killed the ball.
18:04Now, obviously, him hitting it on the ground isn't like a Drake Turner hitting it on the
18:09ground.
18:09It's an out.
18:10You know, it's an out.
18:11And he hits it so hard, it's an out by 50 feet, usually.
18:15But yeah, it's a little bad luck with Stanton because he has been killing the ball.
18:20But that's his swing, right?
18:22He doesn't have really an uppercut swing.
18:24That's why he hits the ball harder than anybody, but maybe not farther than anybody.
18:29But yeah, I mean, right.
18:31And Stanton has got a long history of being great in October.
18:36So no one's going to no one's going to pick on him.
18:39I get it.
18:41I mean, I understand it.
18:43I'm going to I'm going to think about it more.
18:44Is it fair?
18:46Yeah.
18:46Yeah.
18:46Well, we have we have some time to think about it.
18:49As many as maybe 12 hours or maybe a few more days or a few more weeks.
18:54We'll see.
18:56But obviously, this series isn't over.
18:58Somebody who said something interesting last month about the New York Yankees, Blue Jays broadcaster Buck Martinez will be joining us next on the show.
19:13Buck Martinez, 17 years as a major league catcher, a longtime broadcaster, manager of the Blue Jays for a couple of seasons.
19:23And now on Sportsnet up in Toronto, broadcasting their games.
19:27Buck, thanks so much for joining us on the show.
19:30Good to be with you guys.
19:31It's an exciting time for everybody.
19:33Buck, why don't we jump into it?
19:35You know, we reached out to you on September 9th broadcast.
19:41I'll read what you said.
19:42You said the Yankees.
19:43They're not a good team.
19:45I don't care what their record is.
19:47They have a lot of wild pitches.
19:49They make a lot of mistakes in the field.
19:51They don't run the bases very well.
19:53It came and went.
19:54But then Aaron Boone decided to see if he could give it CPR before game one and said, contrary to some thoughts up here, we're a really good team.
20:05Buck, it's your forum.
20:07Go.
20:08Yeah.
20:08You know what, Joe?
20:10I just watched.
20:11And at that time, you guys know the Yankees went through a tough stretch in the summer.
20:15There's no question about it.
20:16And, yeah, they've got some real prominent superstars.
20:20I mean, you know, arguably, Judge is one of the best players that ever played the game.
20:24And Stanton, and, you know, they've got Cody Bellinger.
20:27They've got a lot of talent.
20:28But, and it showed up last year in the World Series.
20:31They didn't run the bases well.
20:33They don't have a good defensive team.
20:35You know, their shortstop made 19 errors.
20:37Most errors by any shortstop in the big leagues.
20:40Those types of things really rear their ugly head.
20:43Now, you guys saw the Boston Yankees series.
20:46If Boston catches the ball, Blue Jays are playing the Red Sox.
20:50And they just didn't catch the ball.
20:51And it's so important in this time of the season and postseason to catch the ball and make good pitches.
20:57And you saw it in the first two games with the Blue Jays.
21:00The defense for Toronto has been exceptional all season long.
21:03That's all I said.
21:04I mean, yeah, character.
21:06They've got a lot of character.
21:07They've got a pedigree.
21:09And Aaron Boone, when I first saw him in Toronto in our meeting with him before the game won, he said, I don't like your hair either.
21:15That's a funny comeback.
21:22So I guess he took it well.
21:23Obviously, your hair is outstanding for a seven-year-old man.
21:26So what do you think now?
21:28You've seen two games.
21:30The Yankees have kind of buttoned up.
21:32Their defense is better now than it was then.
21:35But the Blue Jays are still killing them.
21:37So what do you think is going on with the Yankees?
21:41Because you are the guy who said, really, that they weren't good enough.
21:45You know, John, I think the Blue Jays are playing old school baseball.
21:49You know, John Snyder, the manager, emphasized this in spring training.
21:52It actually started at the end of last season where he said, you know what?
21:55We've got to get better on the bases.
21:56We've got to get better in the field.
21:57And we've got to have better at bats.
21:59So they brought in two new hitting coaches, David Popkins and Lua Anati.
22:04And I saw him in the spring.
22:06I said, what's your philosophy?
22:07And they said, get a good pitch to hit and get your best swing off.
22:11And at that point, I gave him a hug.
22:12There was no analytics involved.
22:14It was back to baseball.
22:15You know, watch what the pitcher's doing.
22:17Get a good pitch and don't strike out.
22:19And they have struck out fewer times than anybody in baseball.
22:23And it plays, you know, so far in these first two games,
22:27the Blue Jays have more home runs than strikeouts in two games.
22:29And that's only happened one other time with the 2005 White Sox.
22:34You know, Buck, just to go back to it a little bit,
22:37is for a year and a half, I was just killing the Yankees for how bad they play baseball.
22:42I just was on them.
22:45I felt like the Dodgers series was coming.
22:47The strange thing is, I actually think for the last two months,
22:51John used the term button up.
22:52They've been a good baseball team.
22:54Like, they've been a little more explosive on the bases.
22:57Ryan McMahon has been transformative for them on defense.
23:01And post getting his cortisone shot, Volpe has gotten good on defense again also.
23:07And I thought one of the problems in this series would be,
23:09well, I know the Blue Jays are going to put it in play on their turf.
23:13The Yankees play terrible this season.
23:15And it wasn't that.
23:17The Blue Jays, for as much old-style baseball hit it,
23:20is they hit it over the fence also.
23:22The Yankees were supposed to win the power game.
23:24They're losing 8-1.
23:26It just feels to me like it's not even going to be a fight.
23:29If the Blue Jays are buttoned up on defense, which they are,
23:32they do run the bases well.
23:34They do put it in play.
23:35But if they win the power game, this is going to be an easy sweep.
23:38Yeah, and it could be.
23:40And you know what?
23:40As well as Vladdy has hit against the Yankees all season long,
23:44he hits even better at Yankee Stadium.
23:46You know, obviously he grew up in a baseball family.
23:48And he always watched the Yankees.
23:51He always wanted to play at Yankee Stadium.
23:53And when he gets into Yankee Stadium, something goes off.
23:55He absolutely comes to the top when he's facing the Yankees.
23:59Garrett Cole mentioned it a couple years ago when Bo and Vladdy were
24:02beating him up here at Yankee Stadium because those guys are going to be
24:05a pain in the neck for a long time.
24:08And Vladdy, you guys know, the last two weeks of September,
24:11he wasn't doing a thing.
24:12You know, he was hitting weak ground balls and weak pop-ups
24:16and everything else.
24:16And all of a sudden, John Snyder said that week off really helped Vladdy
24:21because he could really focus on his mechanics and get back to where he had
24:25been most of the summer and boys turned around for him.
24:28Yeah, you're absolutely right.
24:30And let me ask you this about Vladdy because I used to get him to be able to say
24:34something about the Yankees.
24:35And we know the history of it, that the security guy kicked him out
24:40and that his father had a deal with the Yankees and the Yankees reneged on it
24:46and went to Sheffield.
24:47That was a Steinbrenner move.
24:49That didn't turn out well as Vladdy was the MVP next year.
24:52But now he's just saying, I have the great energy against every team, whatever.
24:56That's not what teammates say.
24:58Because you are right about the way he's at 1,000 OPS against the Yankees
25:03at Yankee Stadium.
25:04There is something going on there.
25:07What do you – I mean, I think now that he's a little bit more chore maybe
25:11and he's got his big contract, you know, it's not worth it for him to get into it.
25:16But what do you think his deep-down feeling is about the Yankees
25:19and their fans and their fans too because he kills it here at Yankee Stadium?
25:24You know, John, I don't think it's the Yankees.
25:27I think it's the big stage.
25:28Here he is.
25:29You know, he loves to play baseball.
25:31He plays baseball with so much joy, whether he's hitting or playing in the field.
25:35And you see one of his teammates make a great play.
25:38He enjoys it as much as his teammate.
25:41But he loves the big stage and he loves to compete.
25:44And there's no bigger stage than Yankee Stadium in the postseason against the New York Yankees.
25:49And he just rises to the top.
25:51And you're right.
25:52He has matured dramatically.
25:53And what people don't remember is he's 26 years old.
25:57He barely has hit his prime yet.
25:59And he's only going to get better and better because he wants to be the best.
26:03He said, I want to be as good as my dad.
26:05And, of course, his dad's in the Hall of Fame.
26:09Well, he seems well on the way.
26:11Buck, as great as Vlad's been, as great as Kirk's been, as great as Dalton Varshove's been,
26:17it's going to be hard to leave this series and not be thinking about Trey Yosavich and just how much he dominated the team that led the majors in runs per game and just humbled them.
26:29Give us your view.
26:31It's only been four starts.
26:33But, man, it's been impressive, no more so than in Game 2 of this series.
26:38You know, Joe, we didn't know.
26:40I knew of him, obviously.
26:42We didn't see him in spring training.
26:43He hasn't been with the Blue Jays in spring training camps yet.
26:46But he signed last year and the Blue Jays didn't pitch him.
26:49And they started him out in Dunedin.
26:51I think Dan Shulman said on a broadcast that the first crowd he had in pro ball was like 289 people.
26:58And on Sunday, he was in front of 44,000.
27:01But he's a very special, very mature 22-year-old.
27:06And you heard the comments.
27:07He said, I was built for this.
27:09And then he thought afterwards.
27:10He said, boy, I better back that up.
27:12And did he ever.
27:13He did it in his face for sure.
27:14But it's a simple approach.
27:16He has the second highest arm angle in baseball.
27:19It's really exaggerated.
27:2163 degrees right over the top.
27:23And it's difficult for hitters to pick up the angle.
27:26And plus, he's 6'5".
27:28He's a big guy standing on a mount.
27:29And everything is downhill.
27:31So he has a simple repertoire.
27:33Fastball, splitter, and slider.
27:36And his slider is like Juan Guzman.
27:38You too will remember Juan Guzman in his heyday with those World Series teams for the Blue Jays.
27:42His breaking ball went straight down.
27:44Well, that's exactly what Yosavage has done.
27:47I mean, for him to come out and have 11 strikeouts against the New York Yankees in his postseason debut is pretty impressive.
27:53And you saw him.
27:55And it happened right out of the chute.
27:57When Trent Grisham called timeout with two strikes, the first hit by the game.
28:01Trey Yosavage never moved.
28:02He stood on the mound like a statue said, OK, you're next.
28:05I mean, it's kind of like Dennis Eckersley.
28:08Clay Eckersley always had that presence on the mound.
28:11And he's very humble.
28:13He's a wonderful kid.
28:15And this is really a big step.
28:17Think about this.
28:19The Blue Jays have three of their five starters off this roster.
28:22Barrios, Scherzer, and Bassett.
28:24And there's still two up in the Yankees series.
28:28I agree with you, Anya Savage.
28:29I got to talk to him yesterday, went to the workout, and a very, very nice young guy who grew up in a small town in Pennsylvania.
28:37Really terrific.
28:39I want to ask you something about what's going on in this series.
28:42I agree the Blue Jays have really improved this year.
28:45The bullpen is obviously much better.
28:47But the hitting has been amazing throughout the season, putting the ball in play.
28:51But in this series, it's been record-breaking.
28:53No other team had scored 23 runs in the first two games of a series.
28:57And they faced what we thought were pretty tough pitchers, at least with good stuff.
29:03And Freed is one of the best pitchers in the game and said afterward that he thought he had good stuff.
29:08He thought he placed the ball where he wanted to place it.
29:10You know, obviously, we know that the Yankees are great at picking up tips and all these other things.
29:16Is it possible the Blue Jays?
29:17I mean, we heard that Luke Weaver talked about how he was told that he was tipping, even from the previous series.
29:24And he's trying to correct that.
29:25But is it possible the Blue Jays?
29:27Because they had so great.
29:28People are looking for a reason, I guess.
29:30Is it possible they picked something up and they know what's coming?
29:34Yeah, John, anything's possible in this day and age.
29:37Because everybody is looking at video.
29:38They're looking at every single pitch every pitcher throws.
29:42And Kevin Geisman and Max Scherzer.
29:44You remember when Max Scherzer pitched here early in September?
29:47They had his pitches from the first base bag.
29:50The runner at first base could pick up his change-up in his glove.
29:54And he didn't change it.
29:56And excuse me, then, you know, and Judge was waving his arms at second base.
30:00I mean, that's all well within the realm of baseball.
30:03You can do that.
30:04I played in Milwaukee with maybe the best team at tipping and relaying pitches ever with Sal Bando and Don Money and Larry Heistel and all those great hitters.
30:13But I don't think the Blue Jays had anything on their pitchers.
30:18I just think that's the way they've been hitting.
30:20If you look at Davis Schneider, now here's a guy that's been on the release list four or five times in the minor leagues.
30:26He's come up and done a great job and basically become a semi-regular here in September.
30:31But he has learned how to lay off that pitch away and force the pitcher back over the plate.
30:36And it's infectious.
30:37When you look at the lineup, one through nine, everybody on that team has had a moment in the sun this year.
30:45The Blue Jays have had nine walk-off hits this season.
30:49Springer, Bo, and Vladdy haven't had one of those nine walk-off hits.
30:53It's been everybody else.
30:55That's amazing.
30:56That's a great tidbit there about the length of their lineup.
31:00It's a great team.
31:01And you're seeing it like the chorus is playing here.
31:04I mean, Vlad has been great, but everyone else around him has been great also.
31:10You've mentioned his name a couple of times.
31:12And you pointed out, like Bassett, Barry O'Shurser are in here.
31:15Neither is Bo Bichette, who you could argue is the second best Blue Jay regular, third off of the season Springer's had this year, where he should finish in the top ten in MVP.
31:25In some way, you have a feel for Bichette if the Blue Jays are able to finish this off moving forward, what his status is.
31:33Does he play?
31:35Yeah, Joe, I don't think he's going to make it back.
31:39You know, he's still not running.
31:40And here we are in game three of the division series.
31:43So I can't expect him to be back should the Blue Jays advance to the championship series.
31:48It would be a very long shot if he got back to the World Series.
31:52In 1985, I broke my leg in July.
31:55And the Blue Jays won the division.
31:57And I was working out to come back and get back to playing.
32:01In reality, I had no chance.
32:03When you miss that much time, I don't care how hard you work or how far you've come back, the gap between the last time you played and playing in a postseason game is dramatic.
32:14I would be very surprised if we see Bo Bichette the rest of this series.
32:18How about Scherzer and Bassett, two guys we're very familiar with in New York?
32:23I'm sure they were disappointed.
32:25Were you surprised?
32:26And, I mean, someone had suggested to me that Scherzer was the matchup.
32:29If it had been the Red Sox, Scherzer would have been active.
32:34Do you think we'll see them later?
32:35And Scherzer, is this the swan song for Scherzer or is he going to keep going?
32:39Yeah, John, you know what?
32:41Max had a real rough time down the stretch and his first innings weren't good.
32:46He just couldn't get out of the first inning.
32:47Kansas City jumped on him and he was just, once he got past the first inning, it was okay, but it's still not vintage Max Scherzer.
32:56I was surprised that Bassett wasn't on the roster for this division series.
33:01John Snyder has grown so much as a manager.
33:03He said, we are beyond pleasing.
33:06You can't please these guys.
33:07You have to put the best team on the field to win.
33:10And he made three tough decisions late in the season.
33:13They put Barrios down in the bullpen.
33:16Then they left Bassett and Scherzer off the roster.
33:19I mean, that's pretty dramatic.
33:21And to have those types of meetings with, arguably, I mean, we know Max Scherzer's going to the Hall of Fame.
33:26Chris Bassett's been an outstanding pitcher for a long time.
33:29And to call him in the office and say, you guys aren't going to be on the roster, that's a tough conversation.
33:33But John Snyder has grown so much into his managerial role.
33:39He understands it's not about pleasing your players and keeping everybody happy.
33:43It's about winning games.
33:44And he has made some great decisions in order to do that.
33:47You know, you anticipated what I was going to ask here, which is, I think, on March 27th, which is the beginning of the season, we would put John Snyder very high on the hot seat.
34:01Does he make it through this year?
34:03I mean, everybody there.
34:04Ross Atkins, Mark Shapiro.
34:05It felt like such a make or break year in Toronto for this group.
34:12And it certainly looks like a make.
34:14Why do you think it's been a make?
34:16Because he has realized that he's the only one on the field that has a win-loss record.
34:23The manager.
34:24So he's the one that's responsible for wins and losses.
34:26And like I said before, he demanded his coaching staff do a better job of coaching.
34:33They communicated much better.
34:35You know, sometimes we assume these major league players understand how to play the game.
34:39It's not the case.
34:40You have to explain everything to them, what you want them to do, how you want them to play, what you want their at-bats to look like.
34:47And John Snyder has done that.
34:48And I have said it time and time again, this 2025 Blue Jays team reminds me of the 1985 Blue Jays team with Bobby Cox as the manager.
34:59A lot of interchangeable parts.
35:02When the other team makes a pitching change, four guys in the dugout stand up and get ready to play because they know they're going to be in the game at some point.
35:10Miles Straw, Davis Snyder, Nathan Lucas, Ernie Clement.
35:14They all know they're going to get in the game.
35:15That's the same way Bobby Cox did it in 1985.
35:19And I see an awful lot of Bobby Cox in John Snyder.
35:22I know, you know, I love Bobby Cox, the best manager I ever played for in the Hall of Fame.
35:28But he was great at getting the best out of all of his players.
35:31And John Snyder is starting to do that.
35:34I'm with you on Snyder.
35:35I think he's done a terrific job.
35:37I was a little, I'm not so sure about him last year, but the bullpen was a problem.
35:41But that helps everybody.
35:43When you've got a better bullpen, they picked up Varland, obviously.
35:46Sir Anthony Dominguez is another plus.
35:49So they did well at the deadline to get what they needed to get to get themselves a decent bullpen.
35:55I want to add just my final question just about you, Buck.
35:58I don't let Aaron, the boom, get under your skin.
36:01You look great, you know, not only for your age, but just how are you feeling and how much longer are you going to be doing this?
36:08Well, you know, I feel great, John.
36:10And, you know, my wife and I talk about it all the time.
36:13We've been married for 50 years.
36:15She's been around the game for a long time.
36:18And she said, why would you step away from something you love so much?
36:21And you're still pretty good at it.
36:23You still work hard at it.
36:25I still love going down on the field and talking with the players and the managers and the coaches.
36:29And my goal as a broadcaster is to tell the fans something they didn't know.
36:35I mean, there's so much information out there all now.
36:37I mean, you can find out anything about anybody anywhere.
36:40But my goal is to find out something they couldn't find out because I talked to the players and the coaches and the managers.
36:47As far as how long I'm going to do it, I don't know.
36:50Here we are in October.
36:52I'm having a great time.
36:53And I'm blessed to be around the greatest ballplayers in the world every single day.
36:58And not only our players, but the opposing players as well.
37:01And I've had a wonderful run.
37:03And I don't know.
37:04It'll come to an end one day.
37:06But right now, I feel pretty good about it.
37:08You know, Buck, as a way to wrap up, you brought up the 1985 Blue Jays.
37:14It feels right that a team from Toronto would essentially have a line change like hockey mid-game where they would do it.
37:22But you brought up Juan Guzman earlier.
37:23John and I, in our first segment, actually called the place Skydome.
37:27So we've been around a long, long time also.
37:29And we remember when that place was alive.
37:32And this place is alive now.
37:34I've always thought that Toronto is like the untapped giant of this sport because it has the whole country at its disposal.
37:44And if it ever kind of got it right serially, it could just be a behemoth, especially owned by Rogers.
37:52I wonder, at this moment, where they're back in the playoffs, they have a chance to advance after really three terrible playoff series, right, where they lost 0-2, 0-2, 0-2 during the Vladi-Bichette era.
38:03Right.
38:03Where now they have a shot to – they've won some games and they've got a real shot to advance.
38:07They've got a real shot to get there, at least, to the World Series.
38:10I wonder what you think about where the franchise is.
38:12Well, the franchise is in good shape.
38:15And, you know, we've been very critical of the front office, Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins, over the years.
38:20But, boy, have they done a great job.
38:22And you mentioned the bullpen acquisitions at the trade deadline.
38:25And we can't forget Shane Bieber.
38:27He's going to start game three.
38:28And he was picked up at the trade deadline when he was rehabbing on Tommy John.
38:33He made seven starts for the Blue Jays.
38:34And the Blue Jays won five of those seven starts.
38:36And now he's in a position to clinch the division series.
38:41But the franchise – we're fortunate at Rodgers.
38:45We can broadcast the games to Canada.
38:48We're the only team in Major League Baseball that can broadcast postseason games.
38:52And we will probably have four million viewers tonight when we watch this game on game three, which is incredible.
38:59Because you say an entire country is watching.
39:02And they are a phenomenal fan base.
39:05Skydome, Rodgers Center has been a rocking place in postseason back in 92, 93, 15, and 16.
39:13And once again here in 2025.
39:16Well, Buck, it was very short notice we reached out.
39:20We thought it was an obvious person to talk to.
39:23John did a great job yesterday getting you.
39:26You didn't skirt it.
39:26You came on.
39:28We appreciate you doing that.
39:29It was a real boon for us.
39:31Sorry.
39:32But we appreciate you.
39:35Thank you so much for joining us on the show.
39:37Great to be with you guys.
39:38You've been around this game a long time.
39:39And I really appreciate what you do.
39:47John and I, of course, thank Buck Martinez for joining us on the show.
39:51Hit or error, John?
39:52Well, I'm going to give a hit.
39:53I've probably done it before to the Milwaukee Brewers.
39:56They've been amazing, incredible, relentless.
39:59They're hitting, I would say, better than anybody.
40:03But, of course, the Blue Jays are hitting pretty well, too.
40:05I mean, they fell down behind 3-0 last night as we do this and came back and scored seven runs, all with two outs, different innings.
40:14But, you know, people say they don't have power.
40:17They're showing power.
40:18They do everything right.
40:19They do all the little things.
40:20They've had pitching injuries.
40:22They have a low payroll.
40:23They're the smallest market.
40:25Really an amazing job by the Brewers against their chief rival, the Cubs.
40:30Cubs are in the same situation as the Yankees.
40:33But, you know, that one feels even slightly worse for the Cubs than it does for the Yankees.
40:38To me, it doesn't feel good for anybody to be down 0-2.
40:40But to beat the Brewers at this point, it's going to be tough.
40:44It will be tough to convince everyone we need a salary cap if it's Brewers-Tigers in the world.
40:50Yeah, right.
40:51Brewers-Tigers.
40:53The small market teams have kind of risen.
40:56You know, I don't know if Detroit is the smallest.
40:58But, yeah, I mean, even the Reds made the playoffs over the Mets.
41:02I don't want to remind all the Mets fans.
41:04But the small markets are doing okay this year.
41:07And Miami, not a small market, but small revenue, as we recall, knocked the Mets out.
41:13So, I guess I don't mind saying something negative about the Mets.
41:17But, sorry, I apologize to the Mets fans.
41:19Yeah, we'll get to them during the offseason.
41:21John, I'm going to give a hit to the kids.
41:25It feels like there's been a pitching changing of the guard a little bit.
41:29Like, Verlander didn't make the playoffs.
41:31Clayton Kershaw was kept off the postseason roster for the first round.
41:34He's a reliever in the second round.
41:35Max Scherzer is not on this Blue Jay roster.
41:39You know, Cole's hurt.
41:42Wheeler's hurt.
41:43Chris Sale isn't here.
41:45Jacob DeGrom is in here.
41:46The pitchers we've talked about this postseason.
41:49You're savage.
41:50That was what?
41:51His fourth start?
41:52Cam Schleppler.
41:53That was his 15th start.
41:56I actually thought Connelly early pitched well.
41:59He was undermined by his Red Sox defense.
42:01Otherwise, he was doing really well against the Yankees.
42:04And last night, watching Jacob Mizorowski come out of the bullpen, who came up in midseason.
42:09John, I just keep wondering, do you almost have to keep some pitching in reserve and have a fresh arm or two down the stretch?
42:15Because it seems everybody else is dead.
42:18Like, I think if the Dodgers win this thing again, it's going to be because they slow played all their veteran pitchers and didn't put 190 innings on them.
42:26And, like, I was in spring training with them.
42:28I know you were also.
42:29And somebody kind of said, like, Ohtani could start whenever we want him to start.
42:33We just have probably about 130 innings maybe.
42:37And we're not going to waste them in April, May, maybe not even June.
42:40We're going to get to October and make them a factor.
42:43I think they slow played Snell's injury.
42:45I think that you've got to keep something in reserve if you can.
42:48We're seeing four pretty young pitchers, three of whose teams are still in this, in part because of them, how well they've pitched, like, really rise up at this time while some of the old guard is gone.
43:01Yeah, I mean, Snell is the extreme example.
43:03What, did he throw 61 innings?
43:04I think they did it on purpose.
43:06I mean, he seemed fine.
43:07I mean, I don't know.
43:08I would test out his shoulder.
43:09I don't have, you know, an x-ray machine or anything like that.
43:12But they definitely slow played him.
43:15He's been great in the second halves of his career, right?
43:19I mean, he won a Cy Young with just an unbelievable second half very recently.
43:24And he's doing it again.
43:26He looked almost unhittable in his start last night as we do this.
43:31So, I mean, you know, obviously the Dodgers can afford to do these things.
43:36They have seven great starters.
43:38Now, they're bullpen guys who look like they built an incredible bullpen on paper, and they all kind of disappointed or got hurt.
43:46Now they've got so many great starters fresh and ready to go that now that's their bullpen, right?
43:51I mean, Sasaki is in the bullpen, and Sheehan's in the bullpen.
43:55Kershaw's in the bullpen.
43:57I'm not sure what they're doing with Glass now yet, but he was in the bullpen briefly.
44:02So, I mean, very good strategy by them, but you're right, Schlittler and Yosevic have been the two best pitchers that we've seen, at least in the American League side of things.
44:12National League, they've had some good pitching, too.
44:14And I agree with you, Early was undermined.
44:17Obviously, a pop fly at his center, that should have been caught, ground her off the first baseman's glove.
44:23I know some people criticize Alex Cora for letting him go too long.
44:26He didn't do anything wrong.
44:27The guy Early was really, really good.
44:29And it's going to be tough to match Schlittler anyway, but they've all been great.
44:34There is an advantage to not having been seen and not having been scouted as much before, but we may have some really special arms here.
44:42Schlittler feels like a pretty special one, throwing over 100 miles an hour as a starter.
44:46That's pretty good.
44:47Yeah.
44:48I asked Garrett Cole in the celebration after that game, what's it like to see his 23-year-old self?
44:53And he kind of said, oh, that's both flattering and not, right?
44:57Of course, it was Garrett Cole.
45:00He handled it well.
45:01On the subject of Young Guns, John, Tommy Hogan, our terrific producer, always helping us week to week.
45:07Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate, review, download us, follow us, et cetera.
45:13It does really help the show, as does watching us on the New York Post sports YouTube page.
45:20And we're going to keep going right through these playoffs and into the hot stove if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
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