- 5 hours ago
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00It's a drive by Derry Dawson, Charles Chisholm goes deep.
00:00:09So there's a little bit of a different pinstripe post. Usually when this begins, my pal Ryan Sampson comes on
00:00:15and introduces the show and introduces me.
00:00:18He's always very kind, but let me be kind to him. He screwed up the show this week by going
00:00:23and getting married.
00:00:25And so we were saying, who should we bring in? So congratulations to Ryan, most important.
00:00:30And he'll be back with us next week. But instead of that, we were thinking, who should join us?
00:00:37And JJ, John Yastrzemski, SNY, his New York, New York podcast, an obviously devoted Yankee fan.
00:00:44You seem like an obvious person. I thought it would be fun for us to chat around Yankee stuff.
00:00:51Obviously, you're wearing your Knick hat. I suspect I love basketball. You love the Knicks.
00:00:57You got the hat going. I thought we'd talk about that. But first, JJ, thank you so much for doing
00:01:01this.
00:01:02So we could do a show this week. And how are you doing?
00:01:05Joel, I'm doing fantastic. First things first. Congratulations to your co-host, Ryan, who is a tremendous, tremendous guy.
00:01:11So happy to see that he goes and ties the nod. And how could I be doing poorly?
00:01:16Joel, we witnessed something in this city that I never thought we'd see.
00:01:20I mean, you know this. You've been around New York City forever.
00:01:24The 90s Knicks, the team that I grew up with, the Patrick Ewings, the John Starks, the Charles Oakleys, they're
00:01:30like beloved figures in this city.
00:01:32They didn't win. What are these guys going to be treated like?
00:01:35What kind of meals are these guys going to be eating?
00:01:38What kind of country club memberships are these guys going to be getting?
00:01:40Like, these guys now have it made for the rest of their lives.
00:01:43They're made men. The Knicks won the championship, Joel Sherman.
00:01:47So, uh, I'm unfortunately a lot older than you, JJ.
00:01:51And I have my, my earliest sports memory is I, when the three New York teams won in 69, 70,
00:01:5868, 69, 70, I don't have a memory of the Jets doing it at all.
00:02:02But I remember the Mets winning, uh, and just cause I remember how happy people were, uh, what a miracle
00:02:09that was that they won.
00:02:10But I have a very clear memory of the Knicks winning in 69, 70 and listening on the radio with
00:02:14my dad to Marv Albert.
00:02:16And then again, 73 and watching it on TV with him.
00:02:18And so doing this, what, one of my sons is a musician.
00:02:21He was off playing a concert in Brooklyn, but I had my other son.
00:02:24And then I was able to share a championship, a Knick championship with him in the way that my dad
00:02:30did with me at some point.
00:02:32A, made me really miss my dad, uh, who's been gone for several years.
00:02:36But, uh, it, it felt like something in lineage.
00:02:39And if I'm going to do a tortured thing about lineage, let, let me hit you with two things.
00:02:43This is a, the pinstripe post.
00:02:45It is a Yankee podcast.
00:02:47Um, there's one subtle and one kind of obvious place.
00:02:50I think we could cross over with this.
00:02:52The subtle one is Tom Thibodeau reminds me so much of Buck Showalter.
00:02:56Uh, like I really feel like the Yankees don't win in 96 and then kind of go on to a
00:03:02dynasty unless Showalter was there before and cleaned up some stuff.
00:03:06Along the way and handed a tougher, more professional group to Joe Torrey, Mike Brown, uh, to go ahead and
00:03:14win.
00:03:15And I actually thought it was a missed opportunity.
00:03:19I, and maybe I missed it.
00:03:21Nobody mentioned his name in the post game.
00:03:23And I thought it would have been gracious and big if somebody along the way would have mentioned Thibodeau in
00:03:31the way that I thought it was big.
00:03:32There were some people in 96 who mentioned Showalter.
00:03:37I think that's a great point.
00:03:38And listen, I didn't want Tom Thibodeau to get fired.
00:03:42Full disclosure, Joel.
00:03:43But in 1995, when I was a little kid, I didn't want Buck Showalter to be let go.
00:03:48And you're absolutely right.
00:03:49The Knicks do not go and win this championship without the foundation and the groundwork.
00:03:54And a lot of the toughness that you saw from their team was Tom Thibodeau's imprints all over it.
00:04:02And it's amazing.
00:04:04We're going to look back on these two New York sports figures and they are going to be tied.
00:04:08Now, I guess the only difference would be Mike Brown had a little bit more of a polished resume.
00:04:14I mean, he did take a team to the NBA Finals in Cleveland.
00:04:17He did win Coach of the Year in Sacramento.
00:04:20But much like Joe Torre, was not the first choice to go and be Nick head coach.
00:04:25Not the first choice.
00:04:26And not thought of, like, obviously, Joe Torre was thought of as a kind of loser.
00:04:30But also, like, nobody was, on the day Mike Brown was hired, and I can obviously have a very clear
00:04:36memory of the day Joe Torre,
00:04:37nobody, like, in New York was like, that's the guy.
00:04:39Like, now they got this retread from multiple places.
00:04:44Now this is the guy to push him over the finish line.
00:04:47So that's the place that sticks out.
00:04:50The other one, comparison, if I could, on it is Mike Vaccaro is not just a colleague.
00:04:56He's one of my dearest friends.
00:04:58And we talk almost every day via text.
00:05:01I'm throwing him ideas and stuff.
00:05:03And he had one, and I kept, like, giving him little tidbits on this, which is the comparison of Brunson,
00:05:13to me, to both Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera.
00:05:18To me, the Jeter comparison, JJ, is he showed up and it just changed everything.
00:05:24Attitude.
00:05:25You had a guy who, in his supreme belief that he would succeed, imbued a whole organization with that.
00:05:35And Jeter, like, I always point this out about Jeter.
00:05:37Pedro Martinez, at his prime, was the best pitcher I've ever seen.
00:05:40And there, you know, you got to play.
00:05:41And the Yankees had a winning record against Pedro.
00:05:44And I always thought one of the reasons they had a winning record against Pedro is Jeter always thought Pedro
00:05:48was in trouble against him.
00:05:49Like, and I thought that was, like, almost sick, but it's really what he believed.
00:05:54And so, like, the rest of the team would be like, well, this guy thinks we're going to kick the
00:05:57crap out of Pedro today.
00:05:59And so, like, it did something.
00:06:00And, of course, the comparison to Rivera is just the fourth quarter, the ninth inning, the closer, the ability to
00:06:06be, like, the calmest guy in the ballpark or the arena, a feeling of inevitability, like, oh, the ball's in
00:06:12Rivera's hand, the ball's in Brunson's hand.
00:06:15And the fact that the Knicks ended up with a guy who was, and I think in both situations, Rivera
00:06:21and Jeter also, J.J., not guys who you would say, like, there goes the biggest, there goes the strongest,
00:06:26there goes the fastest.
00:06:27There was just something magical about those two guys.
00:06:30And it feels like there's something magical and transformative about those two guys and transformative about this player.
00:06:37I think that's totally fair.
00:06:38I said the other night, I think it was during Game 1 of the NBA Finals, they should start queuing
00:06:44up Ender Sandman when Jalen Brunson's doing his thing in the fourth quarter, because you're absolutely right.
00:06:49He's the best fourth quarter player in the league.
00:06:51I think from a demeanor standpoint, you covered Derek Jeter for a long, long time, and I got wind of
00:06:57this because the people around the Knicks mentioned it.
00:06:59Jalen Brunson went to school on the way Derek Jeter handled situations, handled members of the media.
00:07:07There is this leadership that he kind of took from Derek Jeter's playbook that you can kind of see, and
00:07:13it's obvious.
00:07:15There's that, and I got one more I want to throw at you.
00:07:17I think he's the greatest free agent signing, and I know what I'm about to say.
00:07:21CeCe Sabathia was amazing.
00:07:23Reggie Jackson was amazing.
00:07:24But, hey, Reggie Jackson went to a team in 76.
00:07:27They went to the World Series.
00:07:29Jalen Brunson went from Dallas to a team that won 37 games, that made the playoffs basically once in a
00:07:34decade.
00:07:35Look at what he's done.
00:07:36Joel, I think he's the best free agent signing in the history of our city.
00:07:39I really do.
00:07:40Yeah, you know, I'm pushing it in my brain real quickly.
00:07:46Nobody comes to mind because the core – so the 77, 78 Yankee champions was a lot of crafty trading,
00:07:57and Reggie was a finishing piece on it as a free agent.
00:08:02And Goose was a free agent.
00:08:03Catfish Hunter was a free agent.
00:08:04But, like, guys like Greg Nettles and Chris Chambliss and Mickey Rivers and Ed Figueroa, that group of guys was
00:08:09really crafty trading.
00:08:11And the dynasty Yankees, the last dynasty, the 96 to 2000 team, the one that won four championships, a lot
00:08:19of that was core four in Bernie.
00:08:21That was homegrown.
00:08:23The free agents on, like, the first championship teams were Wade Boggs and Kenny Rogers, who were –
00:08:28And Jimmy Key.
00:08:29Right.
00:08:29Jimmy Key was a good one, too.
00:08:30Yeah.
00:08:31And supplementary guys, and then really when they started to sign, like, a bigger free agents like Giambi, Sheffield, like,
00:08:38it didn't go as well.
00:08:40So as I'm thinking about it now, I would say the best of the group is probably CeCe because he
00:08:45kind of was brought in to do exactly what he did, which is be the ace of a champion and
00:08:51fix a clubhouse that was broken a little bit.
00:08:53Certainly when he showed up with the A-Rod-Jeter dynamic and he did that, he was a real bonding
00:08:59guy.
00:09:00But I'm with you because the Yankees, by the time CeCe, even though they hadn't won in a while for
00:09:06them, a decade, they were a very winning team.
00:09:10They were close every year.
00:09:12The Knicks felt very much like the Red Sox, the Cubs, that they were cursed and that somebody had to
00:09:19come in and just change the dynamic of, well, we're not – things aren't going to go wrong now.
00:09:25Things are going to go – that was the Jeter thing.
00:09:27Like, see, I was the Yankee beat writer from 89 to 95, JJ, and 89, 90, 91 in particular, they
00:09:36were, like, the worst team in the sport.
00:09:37Like, I always think it was a great thing that I covered that because I know what a losing team
00:09:42looks like.
00:09:42I know what it feels like and knows what it smells like.
00:09:45And I began to see the transformation that Stick Michael and Buck Showalter really did with that team starting in
00:09:5192 but really in 93.
00:09:54So when Jeter came along, it was transformative because the expectation was things would go wrong.
00:10:00And Jeter was like, no.
00:10:03They just went with that.
00:10:04Like, it's hard to understand.
00:10:07The athletic mindset, as much as I cover for 40 years, of guys like Brunson and Jeter who just simply
00:10:14do not let the possibility of failure enter their brain.
00:10:19And Rivera and Jeter, 40 years in, are the two most self-confident athletes I've ever covered.
00:10:25Like, the idea of failure was just beyond that.
00:10:28And from a distance, it seems to me Brunson is like that.
00:10:31And like Jeter and Rivera, he has brought that to a team that was not successful before he came.
00:10:38And that's why they're wired differently.
00:10:40And you need guys like that in a way to go and end droughts.
00:10:45And listen, the Yankee drought was what?
00:10:47So 78 was the last championship.
00:10:49Then it was 96.
00:10:50It was an 18-year drought.
00:10:52This one's 50-something years.
00:10:54This, to me, Joel, like, it's not quite the Red Sox.
00:10:57It's not quite the Cubs.
00:11:00But, like, if you were going through sports before this calendar year and you were like,
00:11:05all right, who is, like, the most long-suffering, tortured fan base?
00:11:09It's like the Knicks, the Minnesota Vikings, and the Buffalo Bills.
00:11:13And because it's New York City and it's because it's this iconic brand,
00:11:16in a way, I think for a whole lot of Knicks fans, what they felt on Saturday night was similar
00:11:23to what the Cub fans felt in 2016
00:11:25or what the Red Sox fans felt in 2004.
00:11:29And I kept waiting for, like, throughout this postseason run, you covered that 0-4 ALCS.
00:11:34Like, in order for the curse to be broken, you needed this, like, sort of seismic, insane,
00:11:41the most improbable of all, like, scenarios to go and win it.
00:11:46So I was like, oh, Knicks are going to have that moment.
00:11:48I guess it ended up being game four when they were down 29 points.
00:11:52I didn't think it'd be a postseason run where they'd lose three games, but nobody's complaining.
00:11:56So, just if I were going to do it for baseball now is the Mets very badly need Derek Jeter
00:12:03or Jalen Brunson to show up in their lives.
00:12:06I know it's a good point.
00:12:08They haven't won since 1986.
00:12:10And, you know, I think the hope was maybe it'd be Lindor, maybe it'd be Soto.
00:12:14It hasn't been.
00:12:16I wonder if it needs to be more organic in baseball, a homegrown guy who just comes through,
00:12:22and it's just, it's different because he's there, because there's this feeling of inevitability, relentlessness,
00:12:30whatever that thing is about a player.
00:12:32I feel like the Mets, maybe the closest was David Wright in, say, the last 25 years.
00:12:37He was homegrown and he was great, but I'm not sure he, and he was surrounded by such bad ownership
00:12:43when he was there,
00:12:45that really, really brought it down.
00:12:47But I thought him and Reyes might overcome it.
00:12:50Look, I do think part of this is Brunson overcame, but let's be honest, I get it.
00:12:54Dolan's getting some love now.
00:12:55You've got to overcome that ownership to have success.
00:13:00So it made it even tougher.
00:13:02I do think, I think the Mets need a transformative player.
00:13:06Not to turn this into a Mets post here, but like, just as I think about it and I saw
00:13:11what Jeter meant to the Yankees
00:13:12and from a distance, what it feels like Brunson has met, Brunson does mean to the Knicks.
00:13:17They need their Brunson, the Mets.
00:13:19They need just a guy to come along who's like, yeah, we're just not, the bullshit's out the window.
00:13:25Like the stupid things we do, like as an organization, what we do, what we say, how we feel about
00:13:32like success,
00:13:33how we handle failure.
00:13:35Like that's all out the window.
00:13:36That we're just going to win and we're going to be bonded and we're going to win.
00:13:40So normally I agree that it's got to be a homegrown guy.
00:13:44Like that's normally how it works, Joel.
00:13:46Brunson wasn't though.
00:13:48Yeah.
00:13:49They got him from the Mavericks.
00:13:50He was just like, and he played really well in the postseason before he came to the Knicks,
00:13:55where he kind of worked his way on the people's radar.
00:13:58But you mentioned that sort of foundation that he had.
00:14:00He got it from his father, longtime NBA player.
00:14:04Then he gets it at Villanova, plays for one of the greatest college coaches the last 30 years,
00:14:09and Jay Wright and the way they kind of were able to go.
00:14:11Like he was a constant winner, to your point.
00:14:14High school, college championships.
00:14:16Correct.
00:14:17And that evolves over time.
00:14:19Like maybe, like sure, like if the Mets have somebody who comes up through the minor league system
00:14:24and has that sort of it factor about him and is able to turn into that sort of alpha, sure.
00:14:30But like finding it in free agency is not easy.
00:14:32Like Soto has all the talent, but Soto is not the – Soto does not have the persona
00:14:37and the leadership aspect that a Brunson or a Jeter is bringing to the table.
00:14:41Soto's going to get his four at-bats and getting two hits.
00:14:43Yep.
00:14:44So in the offseason, JJ, I strongly in a couple of columns suggested that Steve Cohn should do whatever he
00:14:51can to get –
00:14:52I was never on Kyle Tucker, who I think is monotone, whatever.
00:14:57I was like, sign Kyle Schwarber and Alex Bregman.
00:15:01Sign two indomitable winners who just take no nonsense in a clubhouse and are stone-cold winners.
00:15:09And I thought that their personalities, especially because of the Lindor-Soto dynamic,
00:15:14would really, really help in the way that CeCe helped with the A-Rod-Jeter dynamic in 09.
00:15:21They didn't do it.
00:15:22But anyway, we've kind of done vets.
00:15:23We've done Knicks.
00:15:25Let's see if we could concentrate on the 2026 Yankees a little bit here.
00:15:29Gladly.
00:15:30Though I'm glad we had a place – you know, like I've been dying to write and talk about the
00:15:35Knicks, so I'm glad that –
00:15:36I'm glad I was able to give you the outlet.
00:15:37And it was a perfect – hey, and it was a perfect synergy with Brunson and Jeter and Buck and
00:15:43Tibbs.
00:15:44They're all talking points, Joel.
00:15:45Let's see if this turns out to be 69, 68, 69, 70, because I think of probably all the other
00:15:50traditional sports teams.
00:15:52I don't mean – like the four traditional sports leagues.
00:15:54The team probably best positioned is the Yankees to make the city feel like they could get multiple parades this
00:16:00year.
00:16:01And to that end, I thought it was an important good weekend for them.
00:16:04They went 1-8 in Rogers Center last year, including losing both games in the division series to Toronto and
00:16:12getting eliminated.
00:16:13And after Ryan Weathers got bombed for more homers, which is clearly a problem for him – he's very homer
00:16:19susceptible on Friday night –
00:16:21they won two nip-and-tuck games late that could have gone either way on Saturday and Sunday.
00:16:27So they win a series in Toronto.
00:16:30They're in first place.
00:16:31They have the best record in the American League.
00:16:33I think it's not insignificant.
00:16:35They're 7-4 since Judge went on the IL.
00:16:40And they're playing well without their best player and one of their best starting pitchers right now and also Stanton
00:16:47and a few other pieces.
00:16:49JJ, you with me?
00:16:50That for June, it was a pretty important weekend that the Yankees say, not this year for this.
00:16:55We can go into this ballpark and win.
00:16:57No question about it.
00:16:59Because on Friday, Joel, I'm watching the game, getting ready to do TV.
00:17:03Weathers is getting bombed.
00:17:05Springer, who hasn't hit all year, it's like he sees the interlocking NY and he's like all excited.
00:17:12He's like, oh, I'm going to go and bomb the Yankees.
00:17:14Ernie Clement, like last year, is getting a bunch of hits.
00:17:17And it's like, really?
00:17:18This Toronto team is kind of stuck in the mud.
00:17:20They're playing 500 baseball and they're really going to go and stick it to the Yankees again?
00:17:26That's why I thought Saturday's win was a huge, huge win.
00:17:29Sunday's was as well.
00:17:31But Saturday to go and win that game with the way Cam Schlittler pitched, great pitcher's duel.
00:17:37Goldschmidt, what a key under-the-radar signing that was because it did not get a lot of attention.
00:17:42There were a lot of Yankee fans saying, hey, I want Ben Rice to be the everyday first baseman.
00:17:47I was right there with him.
00:17:49I wanted to see Ben Rice against lefties, against righties.
00:17:51But, Joel, you covered the team in the 90s.
00:17:54I remember when the Yankees used to have a bench of the likes of Dow Strawberry, Tim Raines, Charlie Hayes,
00:18:01Cecil Fielder.
00:18:02And before last year, the Yankee bench became such a joke, they'd go pinch hit.
00:18:08And it's like, excuse me, who is coming off the bench?
00:18:12The game is on the line and this is your answer.
00:18:15It would be like Austin Romine coming up to pinch hit.
00:18:17I know I'm dating myself a few years, but that type of player.
00:18:21So for me, having someone like Goldschmidt, who's a borderline Hall of Famer, who can play a couple of days
00:18:28a week and is unbelievable in the clubhouse, that's a huge, huge deal.
00:18:33Oh, by the way, he's played his tail off for the Yankees.
00:18:36He's got an OPS close to nine, for goodness sakes.
00:18:39Huge home run.
00:18:40And in this game, listen, back and forth on Sunday and without Aaron Judge, even with Aaron Judge, your best
00:18:48hitter has been Ben Rice.
00:18:50And I don't know if you were thinking this, Joel, seeing the game.
00:18:52Why are you pitching to Ben Rice?
00:18:54I mean, I know Cody Bellinger's clutch.
00:18:57I know you got other guys coming up.
00:18:59He's not beating me there in the ninth inning.
00:19:00So, yes, from a, hey, Toronto was the better team last year.
00:19:05They owned them in the regular season at Rogers Center.
00:19:07They beat them up in the playoffs.
00:19:09I think it's a big message for early to mid-June.
00:19:12Big message.
00:19:14Yeah.
00:19:14You know, just so you know, it's one of the things that comes up often when I'm doing this show
00:19:18with Ryan, JJ, which is, you know, Ryan is doing the combo thing of, I think he's like you.
00:19:25He's a diehard Yankee fan, and he also is very much in the modern sensibility of media, and it's no
00:19:33knock, of, like, what's content?
00:19:35Like, oh, is Rice going to play?
00:19:38Like, and my answer always is, number one, these things always solve themselves, and there's no such thing as having
00:19:44too many good players.
00:19:46Absolutely.
00:19:46Like, so I never do the, oh, what's good?
00:19:49It's like they have too many starting pitchers.
00:19:51It won't work itself out.
00:19:52Correct.
00:19:52Like, if they ever have the five they want running together at any one time, that's known as a miracle,
00:19:59not as something you could easily plan.
00:20:02So the fact that the burrito is overstuffed a little with good players, I'm like, because I'm with you.
00:20:09You're going, here's the thing I encourage, you know, it's available online, right?
00:20:14Go to Baseball Reference.
00:20:15Just go look.
00:20:15Every team's going to use 50 players minimum in a season.
00:20:19Every team is going to start someplace.
00:20:21You're lucky if you only need eight starters for the year.
00:20:24Some teams end up using 12, 15 starting pitchers.
00:20:28How many relievers?
00:20:2920, 22.
00:20:30Like, you run out.
00:20:31A.J. Hinch said something to me in spring training.
00:20:34I was doing a story where I noticed teams like the Yankees, but multiple teams had signed too many starting
00:20:42pitchers.
00:20:43And A.J. Hinch said something.
00:20:44He said, you know, we've never asked starters for less than we ask now.
00:20:48And yet, if you run out of them, your season is over.
00:20:52And he said, hey, look at the Mets last year.
00:20:55It's a perfect example.
00:20:56It's a perfect example.
00:20:56And in a way, part of their problem this year is like, they're starting Tobias Myers today.
00:21:01Who's starting Tuesday and Wednesday?
00:21:04TBD.
00:21:04To be determined.
00:21:06Like, when are we using our opener?
00:21:07Even this year, part of it is they thought they had enough starting pitching depth in spring training.
00:21:13I was in their camp for multiple times for multiple weeks.
00:21:16And if you said to them in March, what do you think is one of the strengths of the team?
00:21:22They would have said starting pitching depth.
00:21:23And then the season hits.
00:21:26So, to me, J.J., the overall umbrella is always you can have a lot of good players.
00:21:33It will work itself out.
00:21:34And the most important thing, and I think this is true about the 2026 Yankees, try not to have players
00:21:40who suck.
00:21:42What a concept, right?
00:21:44Because I think that when people ask, like, why are the Rays who don't have a big payroll good every
00:21:50year, it's because instead of thinking of their roster 1 to 40, because their 1 can't make a lot of
00:21:56money, they think of their roster from 40 to 1 or 26 to 1.
00:22:00And they want to make sure whoever they put on the field is at least major league average age or
00:22:06has a skill that they could accentuate and capitalize on.
00:22:11And I think if you go – I was just looking at this, and now I was flipping my paper
00:22:16over, and I can't – oh, I did find it.
00:22:19War is not a perfect stat.
00:22:21But just to give an example, I was like, which Yankee position player has the worst war?
00:22:28You have to go down to 65th in the sport.
00:22:32It's J.C. Ascara.
00:22:33The next one for position players is Wells at 128.
00:22:37The next one after that is Rosario at 177.
00:22:39In other words, they don't have anybody in the top 50.
00:22:42Now you go to pitching.
00:22:44Their worst war for a pitcher is Luis Gil, who isn't even on the team.
00:22:49Man, like two starts.
00:22:50Yeah.
00:22:51At 201.
00:22:52So the first 200 negative war players are not Yankees.
00:22:58And I think one of the success stories this year, because they've put a lot of talent on the team,
00:23:03is even if you're like, oh, Anthony Volpe this, Jose Caballero that, it's like they're major league players.
00:23:10They have certain skills that have used well.
00:23:13You could do it.
00:23:14Are they perfect?
00:23:15No.
00:23:16But, again, a concept on this show we talk about all the time.
00:23:20You can't be myopic.
00:23:21Right now, like, look across the RFK bridge.
00:23:25Mark Vientos is a zero-tool player.
00:23:28He's a zero-tool player.
00:23:30When the Mets play him, four at-bats a day find him, and the ball finds him.
00:23:34You can't play zero-tool players.
00:23:36And I think one of the success stories of the Yankees this year is they have spent little time with
00:23:43players who suck.
00:23:45To your point that this is a better, deeper team.
00:23:48No question about it.
00:23:49And can I throw this at you?
00:23:50Because I have had a feeling over the last couple years, not as much last year, Yankees have too many
00:23:57nice guys on the team.
00:23:58That's been a take I've had.
00:24:00Joel, I can't get enough at Caballero.
00:24:03I love the fact that he irritates John Schneider.
00:24:06He did it in the Cleveland game a couple of days ago.
00:24:08It was at Yankee Stadium.
00:24:09He's, like, fidgety in the box.
00:24:11He's throwing off the pitch clock.
00:24:13But the idea of having somebody who's, like, gritty, he's getting down and dirty.
00:24:19I prefer him at shortstop.
00:24:20The Yankees want him a bunch of different places.
00:24:22He's a tremendous, tremendous infielder.
00:24:25And, like, in big situations, I know he's not going to wow you with power.
00:24:29He's not going to wow you statistically.
00:24:31But, like, at the end of these games, Caballero's up with a couple of runners on base.
00:24:37I'm, like, he's not going to make a fool of himself.
00:24:39He's going to go and have a professional at bat.
00:24:42That moved to me.
00:24:43Like, I know Tampa Bay doesn't say goodbye to a lot of good players.
00:24:46So, that was, like, the thought going into this year where it's, like, hold on a second.
00:24:50The Rays got rid of this guy.
00:24:51What do they know that the Yankees don't?
00:24:53Joel, he and Bellinger are my two favorite players on the team for different reasons.
00:25:00But, like, I can't get enough of those guys.
00:25:02So, I'm going to do a Knicks thing again, and I've made the comparison here.
00:25:05Is, to me, Cody Bellinger is OG Ananobi.
00:25:08He just does everything well.
00:25:11Like, he fills the box score.
00:25:12Like, there's points, rebounds, assists.
00:25:14There's hits.
00:25:15There's powers.
00:25:16There's running.
00:25:16There's defense.
00:25:17Plus, I think both guys are incredible athletes who, because of that, can do extra stuff.
00:25:23And Caballero is Jose Alvarado.
00:25:26He's just annoying to the other team.
00:25:28He's just, like, a water bug.
00:25:30And you're, like, why is – I have a feeling if he's with you guys, you're fine with it.
00:25:35If the other team, like, looks at Jose Alvarado or Jose Caballero, and they're, like, this is so annoying.
00:25:41Hey, the Yankees were like that, Joel.
00:25:42They couldn't stand it.
00:25:43Cole couldn't stand it when he was on the team.
00:25:45So, I think one of the important issues around the team, you mentioned it, is you prefer him at shortstop.
00:25:49So, this is my Caballero thing.
00:25:51I do think, probably like Alvarado, if you ask him to play 15 to 18 minutes, you get a lot
00:25:57out of him.
00:25:58If you ask him to play starter minutes, I think you might like it a lot less.
00:26:01I think the more Caballero is exposed, you see why both Seattle and Tampa Bay gave up on him.
00:26:07Like, I think he – his best usage is late-game runner, start a couple of times a week, move
00:26:16around.
00:26:17I think the 2026 Yankees' biggest problem is I don't think they have a shortstop.
00:26:23I think Anthony Volpe is going to someday be a good second baseman for a team who's not the Yankees.
00:26:29I think the pressure he puts on himself because he's a Jersey kid who –
00:26:34It's the worst thing for him, Joel.
00:26:35I totally agree.
00:26:36It's the worst thing.
00:26:37Loving Jeter and wants to succeed here so bad.
00:26:40I know he's polarizing to Yankee fans.
00:26:43I actually think he could be a good baseball player.
00:26:46But he's getting in his own way here, and I think he's out of position because to cover for his
00:26:55arm, he plays at a much faster speed at shortstop than you have to play.
00:27:00Like he's always – like Tasmanian deviling it to try to not have to – you know, he isn't a
00:27:06shortstop who could lay back and throw, right?
00:27:08Like Caballero can.
00:27:10He's got a hose, correct.
00:27:11But like Volpe has to do everything so fast to try to limit the exposure of, to me, a second
00:27:19base honor.
00:27:20And so I think – like I said this to a scout the other day, and again, I can't stop
00:27:26aggregators.
00:27:26I'm not suggesting there's a trade.
00:27:28But I just said if you woke up one day and Anthony Volpe was playing second base next to Bobby
00:27:33Witt Jr. in Kansas City, I said, doesn't that seem like it makes sense?
00:27:38And I think it'd be better – like Joel, it'd be better for him.
00:27:42It's the right position.
00:27:43And better for the Yankees.
00:27:43Everybody wins.
00:27:44Yeah.
00:27:45Everybody wins.
00:27:46So it leads to a bigger question.
00:27:48It feels like you like Caballero.
00:27:49I think Caballero makes a lot of unforced errors in a lot of ways, on the bases, in the field.
00:27:55Like he does the spectacular and everything.
00:27:57Sometimes the routine gets away from him, and I do think it's hard to win a championship if your shortstop
00:28:03doesn't do the routine over and over again.
00:28:05And it leads to me to the question, is Judge George Lombard Jr. going to be part of this sometime
00:28:13after August 1st, say, after we get past trade deadlines, I think the 3rd, August 3rd, and or do they
00:28:19have to go into a trade deadline?
00:28:21And if somebody like Jeremy Pena becomes available, say, I know we kind of have three shortstops between Volpe, Caballero,
00:28:29and Lombard, but do we have no shortstop to win a championship this year?
00:28:33And this is a chips-in-the-middle-of-the-table year.
00:28:36I wonder what you think.
00:28:38Well, I totally agree.
00:28:39It's an all-in-type year for the Yankees, not only because of what next year may present, but that
00:28:45hourglass is ticking.
00:28:46Like there's only so many prime Aaron Judge, Garrett Cole, Max Freed years you're going to get, and the Yankees
00:28:56knocked at the door plenty of years and have not gone to the top of the mountain.
00:28:59And it's funny, Joel, I was thinking more so along the lines of getting a catcher than I was getting
00:29:05a shortstop because the catcher's position has been a nightmare.
00:29:08Yeah.
00:29:09JJ, I think that at least one relief pitcher and a right-handed hitting catcher are like, look, Ryan Jeffers
00:29:18is healing from a hammy bone surgery.
00:29:20Great.
00:29:21Or Vasquez.
00:29:22I take him, too, because he's a gamer.
00:29:23The only reason I bring up Jeffers, walk year, rebuilding team, cut a lot of money, that kind of thing.
00:29:31And by the way, the Yankees catching instructor, Tanner Swanson, worked in the Twins organization and was the behind-the
00:29:37-scenes analyst who helped them draft him, suggested they draft him, and then worked in the minor leagues with him
00:29:43for two years.
00:29:44And I believe still remains close with him.
00:29:46And so, like, you'll probably remember this because it does cover a time when you were a Yankee fan.
00:29:51The Yankees traded for Pudge Rodriguez.
00:29:54I remember, 2008, Farnsworth.
00:29:56Right?
00:29:56And afterwards, Brian – and this was before catching plans with the pitchers were as detailed as they are now.
00:30:05But afterwards, Brian Cashman said, if I could avoid it, I would avoid ever acquiring a catcher in midseason again
00:30:13because to integrate – like, the spring training of it all, to integrate a catcher is very, very difficult.
00:30:21Got a lot of pitching staff.
00:30:21Difficult.
00:30:22And I think it's more difficult than ever because the plans now are so detailed with each pitcher.
00:30:28And the stuff is so hard velocity, hard movement, et cetera, for a catcher.
00:30:33So – but the Yankees know they need a catcher.
00:30:37They're going to try to go get one.
00:30:38And to have a catcher who has worked with your catching instructor just, I think, closes that gap that I
00:30:46think the GM of the team worries about, which is the intellectual.
00:30:50So, to me, Jeffers just makes sense if he gets healthy.
00:30:54And I think they're thinking by July 1st he'll be healthy.
00:30:57It gives a month to whatever.
00:30:59The Yankees and Twins have made some trades over the years.
00:31:01The Twins are clearly a rebuilding team.
00:31:04I just – I think it makes – he makes sense.
00:31:07So, I feel like catcher and at least one high-end reliever, if not more than that, are the givens
00:31:15in this algebra.
00:31:17And then the question is, do you go further?
00:31:20And the further, to me, is a shortstop.
00:31:24And there's just not going to be a lot of them available.
00:31:27I'm not – Houston is an organization that has said historically under Jim Crane they'll never rebuild.
00:31:32But it just might slap them in the face they're not good.
00:31:35And Peña is a Scott Boris client who's a free agent at the end of 2027, and we have no
00:31:40idea how much baseball we're playing in 2027.
00:31:43And you're not re-signing him long-term probably.
00:31:46Do you have to cash out right now?
00:31:48That guy was an ALCS MVP.
00:31:51He was a World Series MVP.
00:31:52I know he could play big games, and I know he could field great, and he can hit at least
00:31:57some to good.
00:32:00I got to think seriously about it if I'm them.
00:32:04Or do I believe Lombard could come up?
00:32:08This is one thing I'll say, JJ, and this is outside the Yankee organization but inside also.
00:32:13They believe Lombard could defend at a high level right now and run the bases at a high level.
00:32:20The question is, can he hit?
00:32:22And his history so far in the minor leagues, where he's been very young at every level, including AAA, is
00:32:28he struggles for a period of weeks, and then it snaps in.
00:32:32Can you afford, which is to me one of the reasons why the Yankees need to gun it now.
00:32:38They need to get up if they can.
00:32:39The AL East is a lot weaker than we thought it was going to be.
00:32:42If they could get up 6'8", something, it makes, if you need to do an experiment on August 1st,
00:32:49a little easier.
00:32:51I think that's a great point.
00:32:53My question is, we've seen the Yankees, and you know this, Joel.
00:32:57They've called up Jabba Chamberlain.
00:32:59They've put him in the bullpen.
00:33:00They've made the tweak with Phil Hughes.
00:33:03I'm trying to think.
00:33:05Like, Cano came up in 05, but that was very early in the year.
00:33:08And listen, the Yankees were desperate.
00:33:09They were 11-19.
00:33:10I remember they had to call up long.
00:33:12They moved Bernie out of center field, Tony Womack, the whole deal.
00:33:16I'm trying to think of the Yankees calling up a prospect in a way some of these other teams have
00:33:22done it.
00:33:22Hey, the Mets did it with Conforto the year they went to the World Series, took him out of AA.
00:33:27Boom, he was on the roster the final two months of the year.
00:33:30I just can't think of an example, Joel, late in the year, like Shelly Duncan, fringe.
00:33:36But I'm talking like a big prospect.
00:33:38Shane Spencer, fringe.
00:33:40Yeah, like 8 or 9, but shortstop's a huge deal.
00:33:43To me, and I understand that they probably think Lombard will be the shortstop in 27.
00:33:50Okay, Lombard, if he's that good, he'll be the shortstop in 28.
00:33:55He'll be the third baseman next year.
00:33:57You'll find somebody.
00:33:58You'll take on your bad contract for Ryan McMahon.
00:34:01You put Pena in your choice.
00:34:02Like, I would try to do that.
00:34:05I agree.
00:34:05I like the Pena idea.
00:34:07I just think that, to your point, I think championships are incredibly difficult to win.
00:34:15I am not as critical of the championship list quality of the Yankees over the last, since
00:34:2309, because I just think they've been in play every year.
00:34:28And they're just, it's just really difficult to get there.
00:34:31It's like, look, just to bring it back to basketball, is the other night, I was in a bar with
00:34:38one of my sons.
00:34:39And yeah, I'm old enough where I have a son who could drink.
00:34:45And somebody after the game right away says, well, Wemby and the Spurs will be back.
00:34:50And I'm like, probably.
00:34:53But it's not a given.
00:34:54I root for the Dolphins and Dan Marino, Joel.
00:34:57I know I didn't see Dan Marino in the mid-80s.
00:34:59He walked off that field thinking, I'm going to the Super Bowl 10 times.
00:35:02So I grew up a hockey Ranger fan.
00:35:07And in 79, they make a miracle run to the cup final.
00:35:12Like, they're not expected to be there.
00:35:14They win.
00:35:15The Canadians are mid-dynasty.
00:35:17They win game one against the Canadians.
00:35:20Oh, my God, they're going to do this.
00:35:22They go up two to nothing in game two.
00:35:25And then it's not a series from there.
00:35:27The Canadians, like, blow them out in two, ultimately win the next three and do it.
00:35:31And Dave Maloney, who's on MSG now, right, is the very young captain of the team.
00:35:36And after the game, in the interview, you know, to soften it, whoever the interviewer
00:35:40is, says, well, you guys are young.
00:35:42You'll be back.
00:35:42And for a young player, he said, the only one we were ever promised was this one.
00:35:48You better win it when you're there.
00:35:50And that team never got close again, you know, with that core group.
00:35:54Like, your Marino point.
00:35:55Like, so when you've got a shot to win, to me, it's precious.
00:36:01And because it's tough.
00:36:02It's just tough.
00:36:03Like, if Dan Marino can't get a team back to the Super Bowl, it just shows how incredibly
00:36:07difficult it is.
00:36:09You know, you have Dan Marino and Don Shuler, and you don't get back.
00:36:12Like, it's tough.
00:36:13And so to that extent, I think the Yankees are one of the, like, five or six teams I think
00:36:18has a real shot this year.
00:36:19A real shot.
00:36:20And I think, like, I get it.
00:36:23You love your prospects, et cetera.
00:36:26I don't think they have a championship shortstop on the roster.
00:36:30To me.
00:36:31And I think if you can go get one.
00:36:34And again, I have no idea if any good ones will be available, including the one I mentioned.
00:36:38I know that won't stop the aggregated pieces of shit from doing what they're about to do
00:36:42with this.
00:36:42But, like, you know, that's life.
00:36:45But I don't know who's going to be available.
00:36:48And they might have to live with it.
00:36:50And you could tell me, hey, they did get to the World Series in 2024, and Volpe was
00:36:53their shortstop.
00:36:54And Volpe, great in the World Series that year.
00:36:56But I feel like if you can improve that catcher, one reliever, you got to hope some of the internal
00:37:04stuff on relief.
00:37:05LeGran Hay, Weathers, Warren, some combination of bigger arms going into the bullpen help
00:37:12deepen that group if you ever get to full health on the starting pitching.
00:37:16I think it positions them as well to actually go for a championship as any time in a little
00:37:22bit.
00:37:22Because I didn't think the 2024 team was that special.
00:37:25It was Soto and Judge carrying a team.
00:37:27This team, to me, is way deeper.
00:37:29And that's why last year, Joel, around the team, Aaron Boone kept saying this.
00:37:33The Yankees kept saying this.
00:37:34It's the best team I've managed.
00:37:36This is the most complete team I've had.
00:37:38And you look at it, and you're like, yeah, he's absolutely right.
00:37:41Like, 2024, they went to the World Series.
00:37:43The American League stunk.
00:37:44I mean, let's call it what it is.
00:37:46It was an awful...
00:37:47And it's an awful...
00:37:48And Joel, I got news for you.
00:37:49This year, the American League stinks.
00:37:51There's only five teams over 500 in the American League.
00:37:54Let's, again, make another Knick analogy.
00:37:56Like, people are like, the Knicks had an easy road to the finals.
00:37:58I'm like, yeah, okay.
00:38:00They didn't pick the opponents.
00:38:02This is who's in front of them.
00:38:04It's not their fault, Boston.
00:38:05Just go get there.
00:38:06Choked.
00:38:06It's not their fault, Detroit.
00:38:08Choked.
00:38:08Like, those are the teams.
00:38:09And like, the Yankees' road to the playoffs in 24 was two AL Central teams.
00:38:13They knew they were going to kick the crap out of.
00:38:15Everyone did.
00:38:16And so, there was no Astros.
00:38:18There was no Red Sox.
00:38:19And that's why I thought, I've always thought the, like, for example, the 2019 Yankees are
00:38:25way better than the 2024 Yankees.
00:38:27They ran into the Astros, who were better than them.
00:38:29I thought last year's Yankees, who lost to Toronto, would have beaten the 2024 Yankees.
00:38:34The 2024 Yankees had Soto and Judge and an easy American League run.
00:38:40This team is better than the 2024 team.
00:38:45The American League stinks again.
00:38:47And to me, you've got to capitalize on the moment.
00:38:51I would do everything to try to be aggressive and go for it big time this year.
00:39:00Okay, let me throw this at you, because you mentioned going for it.
00:39:04I'm in agreement on that.
00:39:06Skubal.
00:39:07They don't need a starting pitcher, right?
00:39:09Like, they're getting Max Fried back.
00:39:10They have Garrett Cole.
00:39:12Schlittler, who was like 85-1 at the beginning of the year to win the Cy Young, is now the
00:39:15odds-on favorite to go to win the Cy Young.
00:39:17That tells you something.
00:39:19And they're paying Carlos Rodon, who was an All-Star, who's pitched much better.
00:39:22He's your fourth starter.
00:39:23Like, think about that for a minute.
00:39:24He was in the All-Star game last year.
00:39:26He's your fourth starter, and you're going to have quality guys who would be starting
00:39:30for a whole lot of teams pitching out of the bullpen.
00:39:33Like, it's Clark Schmidt may come back off Tommy John, who pitched well for the Yankees
00:39:38before an injury, and it's like, sorry, buddy, there's no room.
00:39:41You've got to pitch out of the bullpen when you're not pitching here.
00:39:43That said, though, there are going to be some Yankee fans, Joel, that are in my life that
00:39:46call the pod, that see me on the street, that are like, hey, if you can go get Skubal,
00:39:52you're all in.
00:39:53And go and make a strength, an even bigger strength.
00:39:56I would argue, hey, you have that prospect capital, go get a big closer if there's one
00:40:01available.
00:40:02To your point, go get a shortstop if there's one available.
00:40:04I, for one, knowing the Yankees are never in a million years going to sign Skubal.
00:40:08They have too many pitchers under contract.
00:40:10It would make absolutely positively no sense.
00:40:13They have like three of the largest pitching contracts in history.
00:40:16Correct.
00:40:16Cole, Freed, and Rodon.
00:40:19Like, they're not going to add another one.
00:40:20But do you get the sense as a rental they'll make that call?
00:40:25Well, so I've learned over these 40 years, never to say never about anything.
00:40:29They're the Yankees.
00:40:31They'll certainly make a call.
00:40:33Because here, for example, and again, I, I'm using this as example.
00:40:38I know nothing.
00:40:39Again, it won't stop the Avalanche.
00:40:41The Aggregators will be out there.
00:40:42But the Tigers aren't going to rebuild.
00:40:47Right?
00:40:48Like, they're going to try to win next year.
00:40:50Like, if they concede this season, they're still going to be like, well, CAL Central, we signed Framba Valdez to
00:40:56a three-year deal to help bridge a period, assuming Skubal might lose.
00:41:00Can you build a trade around prospects and Ryan Weathers?
00:41:06Can you build a trade around Will Warren?
00:41:12In other words, like, where you could use a guy who clearly goes into their rotation for the next few
00:41:16years, who they already know is at least a good major league starter.
00:41:20And then you add two pieces or something like that.
00:41:25I don't think it gets it done.
00:41:27And I don't think it's an area the Yankees should do it.
00:41:30Because I think everyone who calls and reaches out to you in your various places, including your New York, New
00:41:36York pod, they're always acting like the Yankee GM and not the Tiger GM.
00:41:41If you were the Tiger GM, you'd say, is George Lombard in that trade?
00:41:46No.
00:41:46Well, because somebody out there is going to trade their George Lombard or better to A.J. Prowler.
00:41:56Right.
00:41:56Andres.
00:41:57Right.
00:41:57Like, somebody will do it because Skubal's that good.
00:42:00And since it's not the Yankees' area of desperation, I don't think they'll go in that way.
00:42:08And I don't think they should.
00:42:09But to me, bullpen, bullpen, bullpen, right-hand hitting catcher who can handle the bat and a pitching staff, and
00:42:18I would get a shortstop.
00:42:20That's what I would do.
00:42:22And Skubal feels like a glutton sitting down and saying second dessert.
00:42:28I agree with that.
00:42:29You know what I'm really fascinated to see?
00:42:31We haven't mentioned this, and it's a storyline from over the weekend with Trent Grisham getting hurt.
00:42:36Joel, I am so curious to see how Dominguez is going to handle playing every day because I've been one
00:42:41of these guys, like, looking at Dominguez and Jones, where it's like, hey, it's obvious.
00:42:45Judge, not going anywhere.
00:42:47Ballinger, locked up, not going anywhere.
00:42:49There's one outfield spot, long-term, potentially.
00:42:53Let's say Trent Grisham at the end of this year is not back, qualifying off for the whole deal.
00:42:57I have always felt Dominguez was a better fit because he's got more well-rounded nature to his offensive game.
00:43:04He runs the bases.
00:43:05He doesn't strike out as much.
00:43:07I know his splits lefty-righty were drastic last year, but I've kind of been one of these guys saying,
00:43:13I want to see Dominguez.
00:43:14I want to see him play every day.
00:43:15I want to see what he can make of the opportunity.
00:43:18And with Grisham going down now, is this – I got to imagine the Yankees are going to run him
00:43:23out there every day, right?
00:43:25I know it's going to be in right field.
00:43:26I know the defense is going to scare the crap out of you.
00:43:29But this, to me, is the moment now for Dominguez to say, hey, I'm here.
00:43:33I'm ready to be an everyday player.
00:43:35Let's go.
00:43:36Yeah, again, this is not as good a Nick analogy as some of the stuff we've done earlier.
00:43:41But I did think the best of Cat was asking less and getting more, right?
00:43:50Like you don't have to score.
00:43:52You can be a great player if you rebound, defend, and distribute and then get 16 to 20 instead of
00:44:0220 to 30.
00:44:03That there's actually – and the analogy I would use is the worst thing that ever happened – we talked
00:44:09about the worst thing that happened to Anthony Volpe is he was born in New Jersey, a Derek Jeter Yankee
00:44:13fan and wants it so bad.
00:44:14The worst thing that ever happened to Jason Dominguez is getting all of the Yankees' international pool money one offseason
00:44:20and getting nicknamed the Martian and having people who had never seen him play say he would be Mantle or
00:44:26something.
00:44:26The next Mickey Mantle, yeah.
00:44:27Like if he had just been a guy who got $1.5 million out of the Dominican and signed and
00:44:34you looked at him and said, you know what, I think that guy could be a 20-20 player with
00:44:38like a 750 OPS.
00:44:40You go, wow, that's a real useful thing to get out of your farm system.
00:44:43That's who I think he is.
00:44:45And if you lower your expectation from Martian to quality Major League Baseball player hitter who you hope his work
00:44:57habits have gotten so much better over the last 12 months for a variety of reasons, why do you bring
00:45:02in good veterans?
00:45:03One of the reasons is Ahmad Rosario.
00:45:06Last year, when Grisham won the job full-time and Dominguez became a bench player, instead of sulking, Rosario shows
00:45:16up in his life.
00:45:17Rosario, if you go early to Yankee Stadium and watch who does early work on the field every day, Ahmad
00:45:24Rosario, for a backup player, is on the field doing something.
00:45:27He's taking outfield flies.
00:45:28He's taking balls at third.
00:45:29He's taking balls at short.
00:45:30He's taking balls.
00:45:31He's always doing something, and the guy like a puppy dog next to him for the last two months of
00:45:36last season, and I know it was partially Rosario saying to him, come on, let's go.
00:45:41Let's get out on the field.
00:45:42You're not playing today, but someone might get hurt.
00:45:45You got to be ready, was Dominguez.
00:45:48I love this.
00:45:49I did not know this.
00:45:50This is fantastic.
00:45:51I love Rosario even more now.
00:45:53And Dominguez' work habits have improved greatly.
00:45:58I think the Yankees believe that he has made some struggles.
00:46:02So the thing the Yankees worked on in spring training, I watched it over and over again, is Dominguez would
00:46:08move before he knew where the ball was going in the outfield.
00:46:13So balls hit, heaves this, but the ball might be that way.
00:46:17So they were like, don't move until you know where it's going, and then you're such a good athlete with
00:46:24speed.
00:46:24Use your catch-up speed like a wide receiver to go get the ball, and they feel like he's starting
00:46:29to get it.
00:46:30Like, use your athlete.
00:46:32Like, you are not Bellinger.
00:46:34Like, if you watch Bellinger, it's amazing.
00:46:35He sees where the ball's going almost from the pitch.
00:46:38He's like moving with the pitch.
00:46:40Like, the baseball IQ on Bellinger is off the charts.
00:46:43You're not going to get that from Dominguez.
00:46:46Dominguez has to see it and know it, and then use the speed, the closing speed, to go get the
00:46:51ball.
00:46:51And I think between that knowledge and the better work habits, I think he could get close to major league
00:46:57average as an outfielder.
00:46:58We'll see.
00:46:59But if he were a major league average corner outfielder who hit 20 homers, had 20 steals,
00:47:06he was hitting better from the right side in the minors this year, which is his natural side, by the
00:47:11way.
00:47:12Like, there's a little Bernie Williams in here.
00:47:13Bernie Williams, natural side, right hand, but he hit left-handed so much that after a while, people were like,
00:47:18oh, you're such a better hitter left-handed, right?
00:47:20Because you just see 75% righties.
00:47:24I think there's a good baseball player.
00:47:26Good.
00:47:27Not Martian.
00:47:29A good, solid major league baseball player in Jason Dominguez.
00:47:34Will he get to it?
00:47:35He's got to stay healthy.
00:47:36He's got to keep the good attitude.
00:47:38And then he's got to perform.
00:47:39If he does, A, he could do it for the Yankees.
00:47:43B, again, we're talking about the trade deadline.
00:47:45If you're thinking you're getting Grisham and Judge back at some point, I get it.
00:47:52Grisham is gone after this season.
00:47:54You could get another outfielder on the marketplace then.
00:47:56If Dominguez is the thing that gets you the player you want out there, oh, we'll do Jeremy Payne for
00:48:04Dominguez.
00:48:04That kind of thing.
00:48:06He builds great value either internally or externally over the next six weeks is incredibly important to him.
00:48:14I would put Spencer Jones in the same boat.
00:48:17I think Spencer Jones, if he's, let's say it's a one in five chance that he's going to be a
00:48:22really good major league player.
00:48:24I think the problem, like Judge, is Judge struck out like 44% of the time in 2016 for those
00:48:30two months.
00:48:30Then went in the offseason and said, this is what major league pitching looks like.
00:48:34He went to the lab as a determined, talented guy, found the swing that would work, and has been Aaron
00:48:40Judge since then.
00:48:41I think if Spencer Jones, I think Spencer Jones is 200 bad at bats, at least away from being able
00:48:46to do that.
00:48:47Can these Yankees live with that on the one in four or five chance that he's 75% of Judge?
00:48:54I don't think they can.
00:48:56And that's why I've always been of the mindset, Joel.
00:48:58Like, out of those two guys that preferred trading Jones, it's possible Dominguez gets you more.
00:49:05You know what it is when I see Jones?
00:49:06This is probably unfair, but I'm going to say it.
00:49:09He just reeks of Joey Gala.
00:49:12And Joey Gala was a good glove.
00:49:13I know Joey Gala was coming from a different organization, and Jones is more of a homegrown guy, and he's
00:49:18coming up through the minor leagues.
00:49:19But I just see his game, and maybe it just gives me bad Yankee PTSD.
00:49:25Like, I can't have guys that are striking out, hitting 200.
00:49:31I can't.
00:49:32Like, if you're going to strike out a ton, you've got to be more productive.
00:49:35Like, it just ends up being such dead weight in the lineup.
00:49:38So, if you're an athletic Kyle Schwarber, right?
00:49:44Like, Kyle Schwarber's going to strike out 200 times.
00:49:46Correct, but he's going to have 50 home runs.
00:49:48Right.
00:49:48So, like, if the exchange was Jones could play center field, steal 25, 30 bags, he's going to hit 200
00:49:57with 35% strikeouts.
00:49:59But it's 50 homers, good defense, really, really good base running.
00:50:04I'm not sure, like, it's like Adam Dunn with defense and speed.
00:50:09Like, walks, strikeouts, homers.
00:50:12But, like, attached to it isn't Kyle Schwarber or Adam Dunn, but a guy could actually play the outfield and
00:50:16run.
00:50:17That's something.
00:50:19Is it a championship player?
00:50:21I'm not sure about that.
00:50:22Which, again, is why it would be hooped.
00:50:25Like, while Judge is out and while Grisham's out, the Yankees do need these two guys to play well.
00:50:30The fringe benefit of it is it might help them on August 3rd, which is the trade deadline.
00:50:35It might actually, like, there is a other thing that could happen with one, two, or neither of these guys.
00:50:43By the way, if Volpe plays well, like, another team can say, on my team, Volpe is an above-average
00:50:52second baseman.
00:50:54Like, is he a tradable guy?
00:50:57Between, like, I just think they have an interesting six, seven weeks coming up where some guys who have been
00:51:03part of this crew of, like, are they players?
00:51:05Are they prospects?
00:51:06Are they going to make it?
00:51:07Can really help the Yankees while the most important player on the team is out and a very good player
00:51:12in Trent Grisham is out.
00:51:13I know that bothers most Yankee fans.
00:51:15He's a good player.
00:51:16No, you're right about that.
00:51:17Grisham was great for a month.
00:51:18Great for a month.
00:51:19And he was going to take a big time.
00:51:21And, by the way, was the best player on the team in the early period while Judge was hurt, before
00:51:25he got hurt.
00:51:26He was really picking up a lot of the slack.
00:51:28So there's a moment here for these guys to prove they should play here or somewhere.
00:51:36And it would be – and I think that brings some interest in a period for someone like me who
00:51:41I don't care if the Yankees win or not.
00:51:43I'm fascinated.
00:51:44Like, how do they handle the non-judge minutes, so to speak, basketball again?
00:51:49And who rises and who falls?
00:51:51Like, one of the things about Goldschmidt is Goldschmidt has played the 11 games since Judge went down.
00:51:58He's hitting, like, 375 with, like, a 700 slugging percentage in these 11 games.
00:52:04It's like, I get it.
00:52:05He's not going to be able to do it all season.
00:52:07But value is when you do it.
00:52:09Like, if you hit a home run at 1-1, this is why war is imperfect to me, right?
00:52:14If you hit a homer – he hit a homer on Saturday, right, in a tie game, late in the
00:52:19game.
00:52:19That is a much more valuable homer than if you hit a homer when you're up 8-1.
00:52:23When it's 7-1 in the game.
00:52:25Correct.
00:52:25Yeah.
00:52:25So, like, the homer Rice hit yesterday and Goldschmidt hit Saturday, the values of those homers are extraordinary.
00:52:34And you count more.
00:52:35Yes.
00:52:36Like, in whatever algorithm you want to do, me and you will come up with it in the lab.
00:52:40Yeah, I was going to say, Syracuse education is not figuring that one out, Joel.
00:52:43Yes, yes.
00:52:44Come on now.
00:52:45It's – yeah.
00:52:46Where I'm from, that math doesn't work.
00:52:48But, like, smarter people than me – I bet you there are organizations that do some version of, like, algorithmic
00:52:54war where it's like –
00:52:56We clutch stats.
00:52:57We clutch stats.
00:52:58It's like, hey, I made an error in a 7-1 game.
00:53:01I lost a little concentration.
00:53:02All right, no big deal.
00:53:03I made an error in the eighth inning of a 1-1 game.
00:53:06Different story.
00:53:07Different story.
00:53:08So, JJ, this has been great.
00:53:10But I don't want to, like, finish off here without this.
00:53:13There's something on the table with the Yankees that you want to talk about that feels like a loser.
00:53:19I feel like we got through the big stuff and we got through a lot.
00:53:21I'm trying to think right now with this team.
00:53:23Mike, actually, this is for you because you're in the weeds and you obviously have great sources around baseball.
00:53:30The sense you get, will this be a very balls-to-the-wall seven months or seven weeks for Cashman
00:53:38as far as, like –
00:53:39People always ask me, are the Yankees all in?
00:53:43Like, and they're very active at the deadline.
00:53:45They were last year.
00:53:45I mean, they added multiple relievers.
00:53:47They added Caballero.
00:53:48They added Ahmed Rosario.
00:53:49So, I feel like the big deadline deal, you get them some years.
00:53:55You don't get them other years.
00:53:58Is the sense that you're getting around baseball, hey, look out for the Yankees?
00:54:01Like, they're going to be, like, crazy, crazy aggressive or is –
00:54:04Because, like, from a standpoint of, hey, they're in comfortable shape in the American League,
00:54:08I think they're still, arguably speaking, the best team in the AL, even without Aaron Judge, which is crazy to
00:54:14say.
00:54:15That's just the lack of respect I have for the American League at the moment.
00:54:19But if you're thinking Dodgers and Braves and, you know, winning a championship, you need a big fellow back.
00:54:24But is the sense, hey, very aggressive time coming up for the Yankees, or you don't sense that?
00:54:30By the way, it's a great question because the history of Brian Cashman is he – like, other GMs almost
00:54:38don't even know,
00:54:39and they've fallen for it, is he just wears people down and ends up trading the prospects he wants instead
00:54:46of the prospects you want.
00:54:48And, like, he – for a guy who has done this for 30 years, he's hardly been burned by players
00:54:55he's traded.
00:54:56Like, I can't – Joel, I can't –
00:54:57Mike Lowell in 1998 is, like, the – you know, Ezekiel Duran is playing out of his ass in Texas
00:55:03this year.
00:55:04You know, he was in the Joey Gallo trade.
00:55:06But, like, there's very – for his – I'm sure over 30 years, he's might have made the most trades
00:55:13in the history of baseball as an executive, if you think about it.
00:55:16And, like, he's just really good at getting you to his trade.
00:55:22And what I find fascinating is last year they were very determined to address – they made eight trades in
00:55:31the last week before the deadline.
00:55:33And they protected internally what they view as their top eight prospects in making eight trades.
00:55:42Now, one of the trades was a dump.
00:55:44They needed to clear a roster spot, and Oswald Peraza was traded to the Angels.
00:55:48But the other seven were legitimate prospects for players they wanted on the team.
00:55:55Those eight prospects, most of them are in very, very interesting places right now.
00:56:02Is Carlos LeGranje going to come up and pitch out of the bullpen for the Yankees?
00:56:08Is Elmer Rodriguez going to do that or become a trade chip?
00:56:13Because the Yankees have deepened their rotation since this time last year, right?
00:56:18You've got Weathers now.
00:56:20You've got Warren showing he's a good major leaguer.
00:56:24Schlittler wasn't a, you know, shot in the dark.
00:56:28He's real.
00:56:29Freed, Rodon, Cole, Schmidt is under control through next year.
00:56:33They really love how his rehab's going.
00:56:35And I think they think he's going to be a hybrid guy who helps him for two, three innings at
00:56:39a time in August and September this year.
00:56:42Luis Heal is still under contract.
00:56:44Amazing.
00:56:45Like, kind of thing.
00:56:46So, like, does Elmer Rodriguez, a guy they protected at the deadline last year, does he become somebody who's like,
00:56:53we don't want to give him up?
00:56:54But the key to getting, fill in your guy, Jeremy Painter, Josh Hader, like, whatever guy is out there, the
00:57:02Padres decide they stink.
00:57:03Mason Miller is available.
00:57:05Like, I think the Yankees, for the best reliever and the best, again, me, I don't think the Yankees are
00:57:11going to trade for shortstop.
00:57:12I don't think the Yankees think they have a shortstop problem.
00:57:14I think they have a shortstop problem, but I think that they should be very aggressive with prospects to do
00:57:22it.
00:57:23Because I think the team is really good and has really good starting pitching that keeps them in every game
00:57:28and has judge and has enough other power bats with Ryze Stanton, if he ever gets there, to score runs
00:57:33in the postseason.
00:57:34Even though we might not like how they do it because it's going to be a 15 strikeout game, but
00:57:39also a three homer game kind of way they could do it.
00:57:42So Lagrange, Elmer Rodriguez, Spencer Jones was protected at the trade deadline last year.
00:57:48Dominguez was protected, was asked about a little bit at the trade deadline last year.
00:57:53Will Warren was asked about at the trade deadline last year.
00:57:56So they have a lot of players they protected at that top group.
00:58:00Lombard, does Lombard come up and play shortstop?
00:58:03He was a protected one of the eight last year.
00:58:05So that group of players are all in play in very interesting ways, either to help the Yankees, Lagrange, Lombard,
00:58:13etc., or to be potentially traded.
00:58:17And I think it's what, again, as the non-Yankee fan in this conversation, what interests me about the Yankees
00:58:23over the next six, seven weeks is seeing.
00:58:25Can Lagrange come up and pitch out of the bullpen?
00:58:27Can Spencer Jones play?
00:58:29Can Jason Dominguez play?
00:58:30Can Anthony Volpe play to a level to make him valuable to the Yankees or someone else?
00:58:35That's what fascinates me for the next six, seven weeks.
00:58:37I love it.
00:58:38You got the juices falling out for me for the trade deadline.
00:58:41This is exactly what I needed after a break.
00:58:43I think that they'll be in play for the biggest stuff.
00:58:45That's the biggest non-Skubal stuff.
00:58:49Which I'm on board with.
00:58:50I'm not going to complain at all if they don't make a point for Skubal.
00:58:53I have no issue with it.
00:58:54I think they'll check in on Skubal because they're the Yankees and they'll check in.
00:58:58And if they suddenly – because you never – when you check in, JJ, you never know.
00:59:04The asking price could be lower.
00:59:06Or the Tigers could like a prospect you don't love as a key part of trade.
00:59:11So, like, if you don't – again, it's the basketball.
00:59:14It's like if you don't take the shot, it can't go in.
00:59:16Like sometimes you just got to throw it towards the rim and, you know, 24-second glass running out.
00:59:20You got to hope it goes in, right?
00:59:22Like so you make the phone calls so you know.
00:59:24I don't think that's the way they're going to go.
00:59:27I don't think that's the way they're going to go.
00:59:29I also don't think they're going to go shortstop.
00:59:31I think they're going to go heavy relief, heavy catching.
00:59:34And if they could – and I think they probably think like one more bat someplace.
00:59:39You know, like add a thing if Jones and Dominguez are like, yeah, we can't have them take the biggest
00:59:46of bats of the season.
00:59:47For us, off the bench kind of stuff.
00:59:52I would think about shortstop if you could get one.
00:59:56I love Caballero.
00:59:57He's been, like I told you, one of my favorite Yankees to watch.
01:00:01I'm intrigued with Jeremy Pena.
01:00:03Because guess what?
01:00:04There's still a role for Caballero.
01:00:06Third base is – I mean, McMahon is playing okay now.
01:00:08You can't count on that.
01:00:09And I like Rosario.
01:00:11I love him against lefties.
01:00:12Joel, he's a problem on defense.
01:00:14I know he works hard.
01:00:15He's a problem at third base.
01:00:17Caballero plays every day in some way.
01:00:19He might not start, but his base running, his defense, his ability to hit a lefty pitcher, like it gets
01:00:27him into every game.
01:00:28And I actually think that's his best usage is as that guy.
01:00:34And I would get a starting shortstop.
01:00:38Can they win without it?
01:00:39Yeah.
01:00:39To your point, they're the best team in the American League, and I think there's a little gap between them
01:00:44and I still think – look, I thought going into this season, the Yankees, Seattle, Detroit, and Toronto were the
01:00:51four best teams.
01:00:53Detroit is the Mets of the American League.
01:00:55They're the most disappointing team in the sport.
01:00:59Seattle is – I thought Seattle was about to take off, and they've hit another bump here.
01:01:03Their lineup is just underperformed.
01:01:06I don't –
01:01:07Don't get it.
01:01:08And Toronto, like when you watch Toronto play, you're like – there's the example.
01:01:14You better win it when you have the shot.
01:01:16And they outplayed the Dodgers in the World Series last year.
01:01:19They outplayed.
01:01:19By the way, they were like the Spurs.
01:01:22They like led for 72 – what was it?
01:01:24The Knicks led for 72 – the Spurs led for 72% of the minutes of the series.
01:01:28It felt like the – it felt like the Blue Jays won the series 7-0 and somehow lost it
01:01:384-3.
01:01:39Like they – and I'm not sure this core group of Blue Jays ever gets back there, and that's the
01:01:44example of don't play with your food.
01:01:47If you got a chance to win, win.
01:01:49Go have the parade.
01:01:50Because no – like I do this with Ryan.
01:01:54I'm blessed where I live, right?
01:01:55About five blocks that way is the Canyon of Heroes, literally, right?
01:02:00My neighborhood is going to be nuts.
01:02:02Oh, I know.
01:02:03I walk right by an SNY every day.
01:02:04I know exactly what you're referencing.
01:02:06Yep.
01:02:07Yes.
01:02:07I'm a couple of blocks away from where SNY is in the World Trade Center building, right, in Brookfield.
01:02:13So that is going to be crazy.
01:02:17And if you get a shot at that, right, in 1973 when the Knicks won with a core group that
01:02:22won in 69 also and went to the finals in 72 the year before they won the second one, nobody
01:02:27thought, hey, I bet you it'll be 53 years before we do this again.
01:02:31So when you have a shot to win and the Yankees have a shot to win, it's too precious.
01:02:37And to me, if they can close the circle on some stuff between now and August 3rd, they should close
01:02:44the circle.
01:02:44I agree.
01:02:45And listen, 2009, they did in the offseason.
01:02:49They made minor moves at the deadline.
01:02:52And that championship now, Joel, and I know I'm going to sound like a spoiled brat after 53 years at
01:02:57the Knicks.
01:02:58Oh, almost 17, 18 years.
01:03:00It's like dog years.
01:03:01It feels like 50 years ago.
01:03:03But, like, that championship now, and I feel like for a lot of legacies, for Cashman, for the core four
01:03:09guys, for A-Rod, for C-C.
01:03:11Like, that championship means so much because if they didn't have it, then all of a sudden, Joel, it wouldn't
01:03:19be as – you'd be mocking the Yankee drought a lot more than we actually are, you know?
01:03:23Yeah.
01:03:26JJ, like the Knicks to some degree, the show met my expectation at the highest level.
01:03:30I appreciate that.
01:03:31I'm glad I didn't disappoint.
01:03:32I'm so glad I reached out.
01:03:34You were the perfect person to help step in on a day.
01:03:37Again, congratulations to Ryan Sampson and his new wife.
01:03:41But you made this an incredibly fun hour.
01:03:44I truly appreciate it.
01:03:46You're a good man, and thank you so much for doing it, JJ.
01:03:48Joel, anytime.
01:03:49Keep up the good work, and keep those scoops going.
01:03:52I am a loyal Post Plus subscriber, so don't you worry.
01:03:57I got you guys covered.
01:03:58Yeah, those two kids could drink, but they got one more year of college, so keep telling you.
01:04:04Well played.
01:04:05Thanks, JJ.
01:04:05All the best.
01:04:06Joel, that was fun, man.
01:04:07Anytime, dude.
01:04:08Let me know.
01:04:08Okay.
01:04:09See you, bud.
01:04:10Take care.
Comments