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00:00John, A.J. Hinch has long been a favorite of ours on this show, a friend of this podcast.
00:06He's been on multiple times.
00:07His team season just ended.
00:09He's kind enough to join us again this week.
00:12Yeah, not only a favorite of ours, but one of the best couple of managers in Major League Baseball.
00:17I didn't think they had a team good enough to get where they got, and he did it.
00:21And, of course, he managed the classic game of the year, best game of the year so far.
00:24That 15-inning game, unfortunately for him, did not win it.
00:28But I'm anxious to hear what he has to say about that game.
00:30I watched every bit of it, and I was hanging on the edge of my seat.
00:33It was just a fantastic game.
00:35Yeah, we'll dig into that game.
00:37We'll certainly dig into the guy who started that game and his future.
00:40That's Tarek Skubal.
00:42We'll ask about what he thinks about the AL playoffs that are going on and a lot more.
00:46John and I will break down the end of the Yankee season at the top.
00:49We'll play hit and error at the bottom if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
00:58John, we were together that night of Game 4 when the Yankees were eliminated by the Toronto Blue Jays in the Division Series.
01:08But we haven't done a show since then.
01:11So it feels like an obvious place, even though it's been several days.
01:15Brian Cashman, I believe, is going to speak next week publicly for the first time since the end of the Yankee season.
01:22A 16th straight season without a World Series, which is, what, 100 years in Yankee years, John?
01:29Take it wherever you want.
01:30Let's have the discussion on it.
01:32The season ends, and you're thinking what?
01:35I mean, they're just not good enough.
01:37Their rotation, which is pretty well-established, vaunted, outstanding, freed, one of the best pitchers in the game, just didn't do it.
01:44And looking at it now, the Jays are now struggling against a tired Seattle team.
01:50So I'm wondering how many levels up the Yankees need to go to really be a contender.
01:55I'm in here in Milwaukee right now at the press box, still here.
01:59I didn't sleep here overnight, but I got here early and broke in.
02:03But, I mean, the Dodger rotation seems to be in much better shape than the Yankees and probably every other team.
02:11You know, they slow-played things.
02:13The Yankees tried to hustle to get to win that division.
02:16They didn't do it.
02:17Freed thrown a lot of innings.
02:19Rodon had thrown a lot of innings.
02:21I mean, maybe the Dodgers have that luxury where they don't have to really try so hard in the regular season and slow-play everything.
02:28Maybe that's the advantage that they have.
02:30But, I mean, the Yankees just weren't good enough at all.
02:33I mean, they got beaten by, like, 33 to 19 in terms of runs with Toronto, which is not an overwhelming team.
02:40They don't have a great bullpen.
02:42I don't think they have a deep rotation.
02:44I give them credit for winning 94 games.
02:47I don't see them as that talented a team.
02:49So, quite a disappointing ending for the Yankees.
02:52It is.
02:53But, John, can I suggest that one of the things I think happens with the Yankees now when the season ends is it's the accumulation of not winning since 2009 gets layered on every team.
03:04And I think, you know, because we did a lot of shows last year, I thought the Yankees earned their loss to the Dodgers.
03:09I think they got a breeze in the playoffs when they got, you know, Kansas City and Cleveland, which were layups to get through.
03:16Those were not good teams at all.
03:18I mean, Kansas City was below .500 against everybody who wasn't the Chicago White Sox last year who lost 120-plus games.
03:25And they got a layup.
03:27And they had a real Achilles heel all year.
03:30It was how fundamentally terrible they were.
03:33And it killed them in Game 1 and 5 of the World Series, and they lost the World Series.
03:36I do think by the end of this season, the Yankees were an overall better team.
03:41I thought they were better on defense.
03:42I thought Ryan McMahon and Cody Bellinger in particular really improved the defense of the team.
03:47They were at least more of a threat on offense.
03:50They hit more homers and scored more runs than they even had with Juan Soto.
03:55And I think they had a bad few days.
03:58I mean, if Max Freed is Max Freed, maybe they win.
04:02You are what you are.
04:03They got blown out by the final scores.
04:06But, like, I actually think the 20-25 Yankees who lost in four games in the Division Series were a better team than the team that went to Game 5 of the World Series the year before.
04:16And as you think about that team moving forward, I agree with you, John.
04:22Like, the distance between them and the Dodger rotation, and really the Dodger rotation and everyone else, and we'll talk about the playoffs in a bit, and that Dodger rotation is huge.
04:30But does any of that get closed if it's Rodon, Cole, Freed, you believe in Schlittler, and they could, you know, part of the problem this year also is Luis Hill for a half of last year pitched like Garrett Cole while Garrett Cole was out.
04:43We haven't seen that guy since.
04:45Was that a mirage, or is he a good starting pitcher?
04:47I think there's a way for them to be pretty good again next year, and I thought by the end of this season they were a good team that had a bad week against the Blue Jays.
04:56Yeah, I'm going to push back on that a little bit.
04:59Yes, next year with Cole and Schmidt, Schmidt won't be there until halfway through, but their rotation is in excellent shape.
05:08Is it the Dodgers?
05:09You know, maybe not.
05:10Look, it's the Dodgers at all-time rotation in terms of talent.
05:15Maybe it's still the best in the American League, but I'm going to push back on this team this year.
05:21They were too one-dimensional offensively.
05:23They did score 50% of their runs via the home run.
05:28They were one of the two teams to do that.
05:29Of course, the other is Seattle, which looks like they may win that league, so maybe that's not terrible.
05:34The other thing is that bullpen was not good.
05:36You know, it's not a good bullpen, and the bullpen, to me, is key.
05:40I mean, the Dodgers can get away with it.
05:42If you've got a starter going to go eight shutout innings, you can probably survive.
05:45But, you know, the Yankees didn't have that, and I know the names were good in that Yankee bullpen,
05:51but Devin Williams was fine at the end, good at the end, even fairly.
05:56But he was up and down throughout the year.
05:58Basically, Bednar was the one guy who was great, right?
06:00I mean, Leiter was up and down.
06:03Certainly our favorite friend of the show, Luke Weaver, was up and down this year.
06:07Not the same guy he was the previous year.
06:10I mean, I think the bullpen is a key factor, and we have to realize they were well below average as a bullpen.
06:17And beyond that, you talked about how Kansas City got in with the White Sox.
06:21I mean, look at the Yankees.
06:22They did not perform against the better teams, right?
06:25They killed Baltimore and the White Sox and other teams like that.
06:29They had a losing record against the playoff teams as well.
06:32So I think they've got work to do.
06:34Yeah, I think they have work to do also.
06:36Now, I'll push back the other way.
06:37I said the team that ended the season, they played four series against what at that time,
06:44including Houston, were playoff teams, all finished above .500, and they won three of those four series late in the year,
06:49which really set them up to finish stronger than against bad teams.
06:52I thought they were the best version of themselves to close the season.
06:56And Luke Weaver, who had been kind of their best relief pitcher for two years, went bad.
07:01I don't know how you defend against that.
07:03Max Freed, who is probably going to finish fourth or fifth in the AL Cy Young, went bad in the playoffs.
07:09I can't believe I'm here feeling like I'm defending the Yankees.
07:12I beat up a team that went to the World Series last year, and I'm defending a team that lost in the Division Series this year.
07:19I just think that they moved closer to it.
07:22And I also, I agree, they've got to find a way to put a little more batting average into their lineup.
07:28Having said that, John, we get the daily notes from, like, MLB Network.
07:32We're looking at it.
07:33First of all, the Blue Jays out homered the Yankees 9-4 and won the series.
07:38And since 2021, it's outrageous.
07:41Whichever team has more homers in a playoff game is winning at 88% over the last five years.
07:48So, like, you must get the ball out.
07:49They kind of didn't get the ball out at their frequency.
07:53Like, Stanton, who had been a postseason hero for multiple years, didn't get the ball out.
07:58They just didn't get the ball out of the ballpark to kind of hang with the Blue Jays.
08:01I feel like, look, it's an unsuccessful season when the Yankees don't get a parade, especially when they get eliminated so early in the postseason.
08:11John, I just think that we're conflating it with all their other failed teams along the way.
08:16And I actually think they moved closer to being the kind of better all-around team they need to be moving forward late in the year while being ultimately a failure at the end here.
08:27Yeah, I mean, they may be slightly better than they were the previous year, and maybe they were pretty fortunate to get to the World Series.
08:35I'm going to say, you know, I know that we've long held the George Steinbrenner view that it's a failure if they don't get to the World Series and win the World Series and have a parade and all that.
08:47You know, I feel like they acted like 2024 was a success.
08:51So, I think they've lowered that standard.
08:53I mean, that standard was a little bit ridiculous to begin with.
08:55Boone got an extension of two years off of the World Series loss, in which they did not look good in that World Series.
09:03So, I think they've lowered that standard.
09:06And, you know, I mean, really, to compete with these teams, to me, the National League teams were the better teams.
09:12Yeah, I mean, certainly the Yankees could have won in the American League.
09:14They didn't.
09:16And maybe they could have gotten to the World Series, you would think, right, because they did tie for the most wins in the league with Toronto.
09:22But, to me, all the National League teams at the top were better.
09:27The Dodgers were better.
09:28I think the Brewers were better.
09:30The Brewers beat the Dodgers six straight in the regular season.
09:33So, they're, you know, don't always look at the names.
09:36They're a pretty feisty, good team.
09:39They do little things, but they can hit home runs as well at times.
09:43And I feel like the Phillies were better.
09:46I could make the case that Cubs might have been better.
09:48Obviously, the loss to Kate Horton hurt them badly.
09:51I don't know where the Padres, but I don't know how deep you want to go in the National League.
09:54But the National League was better.
09:56They didn't win the weaker league.
09:57So, I feel like the bad guy here.
09:59But, you know, obviously you liked them better than I did.
10:02John, ultimately, I agree with you that it wasn't good enough.
10:08I just kind of want to separate, like, I thought the World Series team was a much more flawed team than the team that actually just got beat here.
10:20But, why don't we move on to something else that you mentioned.
10:23Boone got an extension last year.
10:25I think we're both strongly under the belief that the Yankees aren't changing managers moving forward.
10:31The Mets' failure led to them doing kind of, like, massive change all around Carlos Mendoza.
10:38What say you about the Yankees?
10:40You okay with Boone coming back?
10:42And do you think, like, the failure in the bullpen or the rotation not kind of, like, being up to it or the lineup not being able to produce hits at the bottom of the lineup?
10:54Is this systemic?
10:56Is it somebody's fault?
10:57What would John Heyman, if he was a Steinbrenner, do?
11:01Yeah, I mean, I don't see.
11:02Besides be out on your boat right now instead of talking with me.
11:06I wish I had a boat.
11:07Yeah.
11:09I don't think they're going to change managers.
11:11They just gave him the two-year extension in spring training.
11:14They obviously won the most games in their league.
11:16They love him.
11:18And it's difficult because, look, you see some of the names that are out there as candidates.
11:22Are you going to be able to pick one that's better than Boone?
11:24Is he the best manager in baseball strategically?
11:27No.
11:27I mean, I do think A.J. Hinch, who was a friend of the show, and we'll talk to him later, is a better manager strategically.
11:36Alex Cora, who Boone got by, I think is a better manager strategically.
11:41I think the two guys I'm watching here, Murphy and Roberts, are better strategically.
11:46I mean, I probably could name ten managers who I think are better with the X's and O's than Boone.
11:51But he is a great voice and face for the team.
11:54I know we make fun of all the euphemisms that he uses, but they love it.
11:58You know, they need public relations.
12:01He is the guy, and he is very good in the clubhouse.
12:04So I just don't see it.
12:05You know, if you could tell me who's a great one who they could bring in, who could do it.
12:10And, you know, I mean, you know, would they bring in Bruce Bochy?
12:14I don't know.
12:14I don't know.
12:15He has won four World Series, but he is 70 years old at this point.
12:19I don't think they would do that.
12:20So I think that, you know, Boone is the guy, and, you know, I don't think he's the reason they haven't won the World Series.
12:27Their team just isn't quite good enough.
12:29It's obviously good.
12:30I don't want to be trashing it.
12:32But it has not been good enough.
12:34And, you know, I mean, my solution, it's not my money, of course, is to spend more.
12:40We'll see what happens.
12:41But they do need a better bullpen.
12:43They need to, which is a surprise, because that's really one of Cashman's specialties is building the bullpen.
12:48It did not do it this year.
12:50And you're right on the hitters who can get on base, whether it be Louisa Rice who's a free agent or somebody else, little guys who can put it in play.
12:58Look, the teams that have put it in play did better than them.
13:01Toronto and Milwaukee did better.
13:04So just being an all-home-run hitting team, it probably isn't going to get it done.
13:09You need the home runs, but you probably need something more.
13:11Yeah.
13:12Look, I think the one guy I would have been interested in already was hired, Skip Schumacher, I think, is a very good major league manager.
13:21And if you told me he was still out there, we might have a discussion.
13:24But, like, there's going to be 10 managerial changes if you include Don Kelly as a managerial change.
13:30They stuck with an interim guy this offseason, and we're not done yet.
13:33Who knows what happens here over these last few days.
13:36We were shocked by Mike Schilt announcing his retirement, whatever that means, with money left on the table.
13:43I don't believe that one.
13:45Yeah, I'm not buying it.
13:47So you and I think alike.
13:51And we hear too much.
13:53And so, you know, would you like to be in the swamp of being one of 11 teams who was looking for managers this year when your manager has the star player's confidence, Aaron Judge, has the front offices, most of the front office, certainly the head of baseball operations, Brian Cashman, and the owner, Hal Steinbrenner's confidence.
14:16It felt like not the right – like, last year, I think you could have made a case for the team never got better.
14:21Like, the team – see, maybe this is what I'm thinking, John, is last year's team got worse as the season went along.
14:26This year's team felt like it got better as the season went along.
14:30Like, it's hard for me –
14:30They did some good pickups.
14:32You know, let's not leave – I mean, you mentioned McMahon, but certainly Bednar was outstanding.
14:36And Caballero gave them something on the bases, and McMahon gave them something on defense.
14:41A little bit too, so –
14:43Yeah, like, I think that –
14:44They did well at the deadline, unlike some other teams that have juggled nameless, but they did very well.
14:48Yes.
14:49Well, John, before we kind of jump out of this segment, the baseball playoffs have continued to go – they began without one New York team, and they're going on without the other, the Yankees.
15:00It's hard to ignore that one of these things is not like the other one.
15:04You have three teams, one of whom last won a World Series in 1993, and the other two who have never won a World Series in this, and the Dodgers trying to become the first team since the three-peat 98 to 2000 Yankees trying to do it.
15:18It's like a heavyweight, and then maybe even a super heavyweight in everyone else.
15:23And, John, for me, you highlighted the key issue here.
15:28They slow-played their starting pitching all year to get to this moment.
15:32We watched them win a World Series last year without starting pitching.
15:35This year, if they win, it's going to be because of the starting pitching, not only that they use to begin the games, but probably use, like, Sasaki and others as relievers for a very flawed bullpen.
15:46John, I feel like this is a team that we might look back and goes like 14-2 or 14-3 this postseason because of that rotation and they're great players atop the lineup.
15:58I think it's going to be very hard for somebody to beat them, even the Brewers, who I think we both admire for their style, their peskiness, that they're better than their reputation.
16:09But I don't see it in the American League, and I'm not sure that the Brewers could stand toe-to-toe with this starting rotation in October.
16:16You're there.
16:18What do you think?
16:18I mean, it's a $400 million team, and it's money well spent, right?
16:22People criticize the big money contracts that don't work out.
16:27I mean, Ohtani, well worth every single penny of it.
16:30I think they make a profit on it anyway, just through marketing and sponsorship.
16:35Freeman, a six-year, $162 million deferrals.
16:38Well worth it.
16:40Mookie Betts, that was a great deal.
16:42I think the CBA was coming at that point.
16:44Maybe he just loved L.A.
16:45I don't know, but he signed a contract that I think was a good deal for the Dodgers.
16:49Not terrible for him, but a good deal for the Dodgers.
16:52And Snell looks like a very good deal right now, too, at $182 million.
16:56Andrew Friedman, who was in charge with the Dodgers, knew him as a minor leaguer with the Rays, and maybe that little bit of information probably helped.
17:06The guy, when he's on his game, is as good as anybody.
17:10And that's kind of their thing, right?
17:11They got guys with the best stuff, and if they're on their game and healthy, tough to beat, right?
17:16Ohtani's got amazing stuff.
17:18I mean, he's got everything going, obviously.
17:19Home run hitter or whatever, marketing, everything else.
17:22But Glasnow has incredible stuff as well.
17:25Yamamoto, I mean, the Mets were going crazy for him.
17:28The Yankees, everybody else.
17:29I mean, he was at Dynamo in Japan.
17:32He continues to be one of the better pitchers here.
17:34So that formula of getting those great pitchers and then being able to slow play them.
17:39I mean, they used Clayton Kershaw as a guy who could win regular season games.
17:44Talking about probably the best pitcher of the last 50 years, along with Pedro.
17:48He was basically holding a spot for guys with more stuff at this point in their careers.
17:56So they got everything going at this point.
17:58They have versatile guys.
18:00They have superstars, obviously, in positions.
18:04And their rotation is amazing.
18:06They still have an issue.
18:07Even at 400 million, and they are the best, their bullpen continues to be an issue.
18:13It came in on paper looking like the best bullpen maybe ever.
18:18But, of course, Phillips went out with injury.
18:20Tanner Scott now out with injury was terrible.
18:23Yates was not good.
18:25Kopech was hurt.
18:27So, right now, they're using their starters.
18:30They got so many great ones in relief.
18:33And as we saw last night, it's not perfect.
18:36So, even 400 million, it's not perfect.
18:38But they are the best by far, in my opinion.
18:40Yeah, I think it's an example.
18:42You said something earlier that really resonated with me, John.
18:47Historically, Brian Cashman and his baseball ops have done a great job of putting bullpens together.
18:52And in a year where if maybe they had one of those bullpens, we'd still be talking about them playing.
18:56They didn't.
18:57The Dodgers kind of, like, overloaded on the bullpen.
19:01They're hard to put together.
19:02It's not always – you watch this Mariner bullpen, which is spectacular.
19:06It's not guys who you thought, like, wow, they won the offseason because they added X.
19:12Like, I'm watching this guy, Bizzardo, and I'm like, how does anybody ever hit this guy?
19:17And, like, where did he come from?
19:19And you see there's, like, releases and low trades and stuff like that.
19:22It's not an easy thing to put together, you know, a bullpen.
19:27And the Yankees had traditionally done it and didn't do it this year, and it really cost them.
19:33It actually cost the Detroit Tigers some.
19:36Also, they never actually figured out their bullpen.
19:38They had the best starter in baseball, arguably, at least in the American League.
19:42They played a classic game before they were eliminated this year.
19:47And we're going to talk to their manager, A.J. Hinch, about all that and more if you stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Hammond.
19:53We're joined by a friend of the show, somebody who's been with us often, but we do appreciate his season ended last week with a classic game.
20:06It ended his, believe it or not, his 12th season as a manager, his fifth with the Detroit Tigers.
20:12John and I are so happy to be joined again by A.J. Hinch.
20:15A.J., thank you for joining the show.
20:17Yeah, no, my pleasure.
20:18I wish I was joining you from the ALCS, obviously.
20:21A.J., the reason you're not is I almost don't know the question to ask when you play the kind of game that you played in Game 5.
20:30Part of it is we're now not used to seeing extra innings the old way, and a game lasts as long, 15 innings.
20:38I was nauseous at home watching it and feeling like somebody is going to lose this game.
20:44Just with about a week to reflect on it, go wherever you want.
20:47What sticks out from a game that I think will probably be shown on MLB Network forever now for one of the best games we've all ever seen?
20:57Yeah, I think when you're in it, you don't have that perspective because you're just going inning by inning.
21:03And half the inning, you're trying to create a run.
21:07And the other half, you're holding on for dear life, knowing that the game can end, your season can end, the series will end.
21:13And you don't want that to happen.
21:15And so what's amazing in those games is the player, like how exceptional play out of the players.
21:24We had so many big things that happened on both sides of the ball to extend that game.
21:28And you do feel the difference between the free runner at second base and having to create your own rally and your own opportunities.
21:37And so, you know, when I look back at that game, it's gut wrenching because I can think about second and third and one out and not getting a run in.
21:44Or I can think about bases loaded and not getting a run in.
21:47Or you think about the moving parts and the benches being used.
21:52And you're looking down at your card and every starter, I think, that started in that series outside of maybe one or two was in the bullpen and pitching.
22:01Like not only were they down there, they were pitching.
22:03Luis Castillo and for us, Jack Flaherty.
22:06And Troy Melton's coming in throwing 100 on one day's rest.
22:10He's never done that before.
22:11And all hands on deck means something different to everybody.
22:15But that game displayed it with some agony on both sides that the game wasn't ending earlier.
22:21But nobody wanted the game to end unless it was going to be in your favor.
22:25Hey, AJ, don't look back on it.
22:28We don't want your gut wrenched or anything like that.
22:30But, I mean, is there any appreciation at all for the fact that it was the best game of the year?
22:34It's a classic game or not really.
22:36You're just a competitor and that's it.
22:39Yeah, I mean, I can appreciate it as like a baseball person.
22:41You know, I said after the game that somebody was going to win and somebody was going to lose.
22:46And unfortunately, that somebody was us that had on the losing side of it.
22:51You know, I have such great respect for the players because they wanted it so badly.
22:56We wanted it so badly.
22:58That game was, you know, that series in itself was, you know, two one-run games, two blowouts.
23:05And then this epic two games in one or three games in one or four games in one where every decision and every opportunity was magnified.
23:14It, you know, I have great appreciation for it.
23:17I'm glad I was a part of it.
23:18I'm just jealous of Dan and the Mariners who got to advance after that, fly all the way across the country and start the ALCS.
23:25Because our players did so much, you know, to almost win the game, but almost doesn't get it done.
23:34And that's the gut-wrenching part.
23:37But a lot of respect for the Mariners and the series that we played against them.
23:42And it's just part of the competition in playoff baseball.
23:46You know, AJ, you hit on it.
23:47I wonder if I could just forward it there a little bit.
23:49And that is a wearying game at the end of a wearying series, at the end of a long season.
23:57And then I get it.
23:58You know, there's people who are doing minor jobs and stuff, you know, real whatever.
24:03But you still have to fly, play.
24:06Any level of surprise where we are in the ALCS as we talk, which is Seattle won the two games in Toronto on our flying back home with a chance to go to the World Series for the first time in their history?
24:17Yeah, so I think it's interesting.
24:20That's a great topic because we felt that just on our travel.
24:24So we went, end of the season, we went Cleveland, Boston, back to Cleveland, to Seattle, to Detroit, back to Seattle for Game 5.
24:32So we had our own jet lag, so to speak.
24:35But you don't feel it until after it's over, the letdown or the crash or the fatigue.
24:41I actually think the Mariners had such an energy boost out of that win, out of that party that night.
24:48They travel, they go across the way, and there's an energy boost.
24:52Now, the letdown will come at some point, and maybe it's today on the off day.
24:56But going there, I thought they'd have a ton of energy.
24:59I just didn't know if they would have the resources to get through the game the way that they did.
25:03I mean, watching Bizarro warm up, watching Brash in the game, Munoz coming in, and I think he had under 10 pitches, I think, in his save in Game 1.
25:13I was amazed by their ability to use their pieces the way that they could.
25:18But from an energy standpoint, not surprised at all because you get that boost of adrenaline and excitement and accomplishment that comes with a series win in the playoffs.
25:30So second day, maybe a little more surprised because that's usually when the jet lag hits and when some of the fatigue hits, and all they did is put up double-digit number of runs.
25:41And Gilbert looked incredible on, you know, even though he's supposed to be on fumes.
25:47And it sets the Mariners up for either a great opportunity or the biggest trap imaginable where the series feels like it's in their hands, but it's never over until you win four games.
26:01I know it's a lot, and you think about everything.
26:03But it was over the 15 innings, is there one or two things that you wish had gone differently and one or two things that really stick out for you?
26:11I mean, I can't think of anything strategically that you would have done differently, but maybe you do.
26:15I don't know.
26:16Is there anything?
26:18Yeah, so I think over the course of 15 innings, there's always going to be opportunities missed.
26:23You know, I mean, I think I look back at, you know, I did, you know, call for a sacrifice bun, and we got to second and third.
26:31Javi gets the ground ball to third base, and McKinstry runs inside the fair territory like you're supposed to, and they complete a play.
26:38Like, that's a run scoring opportunity that you'd love to get back, and then you look at it, and you're like, 96 with sinks, pretty hard to hit to the opposite field.
26:46And then you have two outs and a runner on second a couple different times that, you know, you want to bloop, or you want to blast, or you want something to go your way, and it doesn't.
26:57You know, and then obviously there's always a few walks in there that create some run scoring opportunities for the other side, or maybe it's a misplay.
27:06But for our bullpen to come in, and I think it was like six and two-thirds or seven innings of shutout baseball prior to the last run, that's pretty epic in itself.
27:18And it's not one point of the game or one decision or one opportunity that stands out as much as it's just in those games, you know, you have to go win it.
27:28And I think the Mariners won it more than we lost it.
27:31Like, I'm glad it wasn't an error.
27:33I'm glad it wasn't a walk-off walk, which Tommy had, what, bases loaded, 3-2 count, delivered the strike, Polanco gets the hit.
27:41They won it, you know, with some execution off the bench, with some key hits, and being able to, you know, to push a run across when it felt like neither team was going to score, you know,
27:53for the rest of the night based on how the previous eight or nine innings had gone.
27:58Yeah, you know, you just think about how the Philly season ended, right, with Kerkering throwing it away, and it just feels like a forever horrible moment.
28:06So I'm with you.
28:07I'm glad that a team won it as opposed to lost it as I was watching it.
28:11You know, I have a question, AJ, that is a small, is a question about you, but maybe a larger question.
28:19Your season, your actually last two seasons are very much like the Mets.
28:23Started bad last year, got really good and got in the playoffs, started great this year, didn't do the big move, protected the best of your farm system at the trade deadline, so you didn't do big things.
28:34You kind of snuck in at the end, not playing well.
28:38The Mets didn't.
28:39I was watching it.
28:40And so I wonder, like, I watch the good teams now go through longer periods of not playing well during a season than ever before.
28:49Is that recency bias?
28:51Does this happen a lot over time?
28:53Or do you think something's going on in the game where I watch the Mets fall apart for a long period of time?
28:58I watched you.
28:58I watched the Yankees fall apart for a long period of time.
29:01Not just 10 games where you go 2-8 or 15 games where you're 4-11.
29:05Like, long periods of time.
29:06Is there something in the game right now that is leading to, like, even good teams having sustained periods of really bad baseball?
29:15That's a good question.
29:18I don't know that it could be recency bias.
29:21I also think every team goes through this.
29:23And we now have a magnifying glass on all of those situations, probably at a greater extent than ever before.
29:31And we pay attention to a ton.
29:32I mean, I've wondered, you know, as bullpenning has become more and more popular, does that wear a team down and create, you know, a disadvantage to where your bullpen's pretty gassed and they're always in on these close games and then you lose?
29:46Like, are you getting blown out or are you having close losses?
29:48Are you, you know, making a few mistakes and then we label that bad baseball, but it's actually just a specific position or just a specific circumstance that's creating some of these losses?
30:00Because I look at our September and can see a lot of different things.
30:06There were some close games where we just didn't put teams away.
30:10We left them hanging in a little bit and then they came up and walked us off in Miami.
30:14Or the Mets came to town early in the month and we couldn't quite squeak out the win.
30:19Or, you know, we lost to the Braves in the ninth inning, I think, twice in a series when we got beat by them.
30:25So it wasn't a matter of, like, getting blown out, although we did a few times.
30:30It was a combination of things and the stress that comes with it.
30:34Listen, our sport is covered to the highest degree it's ever been in my career.
30:39And so players, they feel it, they read it.
30:42The, you know, coaches, we know it.
30:45And you continue to try to push forward.
30:47And every team's going to go through it.
30:49I don't know why this year the better teams had magnified losing streaks or losing stretches.
30:55Because I've been on 100 win teams that have had multiple six and seven game losing streaks,
31:00which seems almost impossible mathematically.
31:03But it's the reality of 162 games.
31:06But, you know, I, listen, we were all aware of what September was doing to us, you know,
31:12physically, mentally, emotionally, and most importantly, record-wise.
31:16Because I, the first playoff question that I got this year was in June.
31:21And if you think about that, like, we hadn't even named the All-Star team.
31:24And people were asking me about the playoffs because we were so far out ahead.
31:28And mathematically, it just, it looked like an impossible hill for another team to climb
31:33to come and catch us.
31:35And I kept saying, hey, play the whole schedule.
31:37Hey, we're going to play the game out.
31:38It's going to be 162.
31:40Because experience will tell you anything can happen in our sport.
31:43And the good teams showed vulnerability, you know, throughout the year.
31:49And I even used that, you know, what you said about, you know, whether it's the Yankees or the Mets.
31:55And I'm like, I've heard every team was the worst team in baseball at some point, right?
31:59Like, you heard, what's wrong with the Yankees?
32:01What's wrong with the Mets?
32:02What's wrong with the Cubs?
32:02What's wrong with the Astros?
32:03What's wrong with the Mariners?
32:04You know, and it hits, it plagues everybody.
32:08When it happens at the end of the year, that is by far, like, the worst timing imaginable
32:14because of the shrinking schedule and the magnifying lens that's put on teams.
32:19You're right.
32:20It's a long season.
32:21I'm here in Milwaukee for the Dodgers-Milwaukee series.
32:24And they were the worst team for the first weekend.
32:27So everybody was the worst, even though by the end, they were the best team with 97 wins, Milwaukee.
32:32So you're absolutely right about that.
32:34Look, your extension was announced yesterday.
32:37There's so many openings.
32:39Craig Council played free agency for all it was worth, right?
32:43And why do an extension?
32:46I mean, you are, I think, by acclamation, one of the top few managers in baseball.
32:53You know, you could probably make a lot more money if you're a free agent.
32:56And it would probably be exciting as well.
32:58Why do this extension?
33:01Because I love it here.
33:02You know, and I appreciate the opportunity I have here.
33:06I think we are an organization that has a ton of upside in the present.
33:12And I think we have a ton of upside in the future.
33:14And I love my environment.
33:16I get pushed here to be better.
33:18I'm super happy being in Michigan and being in Detroit and helping, you know, build this organization into a winning franchise again.
33:30And so I have a great appreciation for stability.
33:34You know, I think there's an allure all the time with free agency, whether you're a player or coach or manager.
33:40And I'm not sure I agree with you that it's fun because I think that can also bring a little bit of stress, uprooting your family and taking them elsewhere.
33:48But I've been treated incredibly well, you know, by ownership, by Scott, by Jeff here.
33:55And it was an immediate yes, because if you're in a place that pushes you and satisfies you, why would you why would you look elsewhere?
34:03I am perfectly happy being the Tigers manager and I want to bring a World Series here.
34:08I think what John meant, it would have been fun for me and him.
34:12If you were a free agent, right?
34:13Like, I don't know that it would have been fun for you.
34:16We're very selfish podcast hosts here.
34:19It's probably more fun for players, you know, when you're a superstar player and you're out there and everybody's talking about it.
34:25I don't know.
34:26It seems like some of them look forward to it.
34:28And managers, it's a little more of a controlled environment in terms of the negotiation.
34:33It's not easy, you know, quick.
34:35Yeah, I think it's I also think, like, you know, when you plant some roots somewhere and, you know, I've brought staff here.
34:42I have developed a ton of relationship with the players here.
34:46I love it here.
34:47So I think for me, it's it's a you know, I know there's always curiosity and manager changes this year.
34:52I think we're going to see as many new managers as as I can remember in my in my career.
34:57And there's going to be a lot of moving parts.
35:01You know, I'm I'm perfectly happy not being one of them.
35:03On the subject of free agency, you like the segue, AJ, Tarek Skubal is going to enter his walk year.
35:12And I know the delicate I watch the clips from the press conference.
35:15And so I know the delicate line that has to be walked on a player this special to his team, to you, to the fan base of, you know, who's coming up on free agency.
35:26And you've got to make that tough decision.
35:28Do you just play it out?
35:30Do you sign him long term?
35:32Do you trade him and max him out here?
35:34So knowing you have to walk that that tight tightrope, I wonder if I could phrase the question this way.
35:40When you draft this kind of player in the ninth round and he has this success, can I argue even if you're not going to be able to sign him long term, just play it out.
35:48Like who would have dreamed of, you know, like like if he leaves after next year because there's greener pastures and greener dollars someplace else, so be it.
35:57But you've you've proven these last two years you're a very good team with a chance to win.
36:02And that guy gives you a different.
36:04He almost gave it to you again this postseason, a differentiator over everyone else.
36:08Why not just say no matter what happens, we're not trading the guy.
36:12We're either playing it out or finding a way to keep him long term.
36:17Well, that's certainly a path.
36:18I mean, I think, you know, listen, I get the opportunity to hand him the ball every five or six days.
36:23And that's easy.
36:24Like I love watching him pitch.
36:27I love the impact he has on our team.
36:29And when you talk about the postseason, when you can set records like that, people talk about pretty remarkable achievement in its own right.
36:37And, you know, I as a manager, I end up in in sort of the middle of this because I can see, you know, the players and the lure of free agency.
36:46I can also see the stability of a franchise.
36:48And you have this, you know, I assume he's I don't assume I think he's going to win the the second Cy Young in a row.
36:55And, you know, my my goal for him is to set him up to win a third.
36:59And it's it's remarkable to watch him go through his day by day.
37:03And I've been through this before, you know, when I was in Houston, you know, Garrett Cole was a free agent entering into his last year.
37:10We went all the way to game seven of the World Series and he ended up signing that contract with the Yankees.
37:15And and there are guys that have signed back early.
37:18So I, you know, I guess it's not trying to hide the hide behind the question, but I get to be the manager that puts him in the lineup.
37:24You want him with the with the ball in his hand.
37:26And, you know, there are some big decisions all over the sport when these type of situations come up and and, you know, we're going to we're going to move forward.
37:35I don't know what's possible other than I know he can win the Cy Young this year and I know he can win the Cy Young next year.
37:42And there's a lot of banter that's going to go on within the sport when you have a player of this magnitude in the situation that he's in.
37:50So I'm going to manage and I'm going to manage him as long as I'm allowed to.
37:54You want him to, you know, to be your anchor on a on a pitching staff, no doubt.
37:59But I you know, a lot of that stuff's out of any of our control.
38:03And and and you guys are going to probably have to talk about it a billion times because of the interest level in a in in this type of situation publicly.
38:12Maybe like Cole, he could wear the Boris cap corp cap after game seven of the World Series next year, AJ.
38:18How come I knew if I brought that up from from that, you were going to go right to that, to that picture in people's heads?
38:25I'm sorry, AJ. Sometimes you throw the alley and I got to oop, you know.
38:30I was not going to do it. And I we've had Derek Scuba on the show and he's fantastic.
38:36I don't think he's doing it, doing that. So not that I know, but I don't see that happening.
38:42And you are the manager who hands him the ball. So I'm not going to press you on on that.
38:46There is another option. The option beyond keeping him and letting him play it out and trading him is is to sign him.
38:52But we won't ask you about that because you're not the general manager.
38:55That that's a question for Scott, who we've also had on the show.
38:58I want to ask you about a different guy who's got some a little bit of New York roots, but he was he was a stopover.
39:05He actually played well for the Mets. And that's Javi Baez.
39:07I thought he was done. I don't know what you did to him.
39:11All of a sudden he's a center fielder and he's a really good one.
39:14And then I'm watching your team play and now he's a shortstop again, which I couldn't believe.
39:19What what was the magic trick?
39:21No pun intended with Javi that enabled him to become a very good player again?
39:27Yeah, no, he's incredible. And I love being around Javi.
39:31I love pushing him. I love the banter he creates around our club and and the attention that he brings.
39:37I mean, this this guy in the postseason was as electrifying as as he's been as a Tiger.
39:42But also in recent memory, you know, I know he when he played for the Mets and leaving the Cubs, there was a there's so much attention surrounding Javi.
39:51And I think the one key was health. You know, this guy had to get healthy and he went through significant surgery and went through the rehab and came back pretty hungry.
40:01I do think the versatility untapped a little bit of of hunger and excitement and energy in him when he was learning center field.
40:10And I played him at second a little bit. We introduced third base to him.
40:14He loves, you know, sort of the challenge of of change.
40:18But then it got to the playoffs and this guy was playing incredible defense, putting up really good at bats and contributing to to wins like every day.
40:28And so that became a stable part of him.
40:30I still think we should incorporate more positions for him and and have him be, you know, a difference maker in a lot of different spots.
40:38But it's amazing what health can do to to your physical abilities, but also just your mental confidence and in the knowledge that, you know, that you're in a good position physically to to to be better.
40:51But obviously getting to the All-Star game, you know, the fans recognized what he was bringing to the table and getting him back on the map in the respect that he deserves was was pretty awesome to see from my chair.
41:05And we challenge him. I mean, we I've hit for him. I've hit him at the bottom of the order.
41:10I've you know, I've sat him a few games when things aren't aren't going well.
41:13And he always responds favorably to to to to to the environment, you know, elevating like as the playoffs got closer, he played better when he inside the playoffs.
41:25Those were not easy matchups for him when you're facing Kirby and Gilbert and Castillo and and the power right handed arms, you know, that that that are tough on right handed hitters.
41:35And yet there's the double to left center. There's the base hit to the backside to the right side.
41:39Here's the, you know, the the incredible defensive play and he rises to the moment and he's got the it factor to go with it.
41:47And and and we we've reestablished him as a contributor, which is pretty remarkable.
41:53You know, AJ, I know you're a great guest when we come to the end of an interview like this.
41:58And I still have about 10 things I'd love to ask because I'd love to tap in and hear hear your thoughts.
42:03So there's a bunch. Why don't I just do it on this?
42:06Because we mentioned it before that a third of the league is going to change managers or keep their interim guy in the case of Don Kelly.
42:13Just on the state of managing now, like there's this belief managers have never done less.
42:21I actually would argue managers never do more.
42:23You're the lead spokesman for a multibillion dollar corporation.
42:28Owners hide never before.
42:30Heads of baseball operations hide like never before.
42:32There's less access to the players.
42:34You've got to be able to handle medicine and law and tactics during a game.
42:39And whether you're making the tactics or not, you're blamed for them.
42:42And I just wonder what you think of the state of managing right now.
42:46And is there enough of a pipeline of trading?
42:49Like I remember when I first started, we used to know, oh, that guy's going to be a manager.
42:52That guy's going to be a manager.
42:54There's 10 openings.
42:55I don't know who's going to be a manager.
42:56Like I hear college ranks now.
42:58I hear broadcast booth.
42:59What do you think about the state of managing as we go?
43:01Well, I realize that's a broad question, but we're going to see 10 new ones.
43:05Yeah, we are going to see, you know, a lot of new ones.
43:08I'm sure there's going to be some first-time opportunities, which are deserved for the guys that get an opportunity.
43:14I think there are a lot of viable candidates who haven't quite been handed the keys or the desk, so to speak, and been asked to lead.
43:23And then there's also going to be some movement amongst the guys with experience.
43:27And, you know, I agree with you.
43:29I think the managing chair, I mean, just because people have an opinion on what you should or shouldn't do doesn't make managing easy, right?
43:37Like we definitely, I watch it all the time where I'm watching these games.
43:40And even as a sitting manager, you're watching Doc and Murph and John and Dan go through their decision-making processes.
43:50Like I have great respect for what those guys are going through and how impossible it is to set up processes to make decisions and then be judged by the results.
44:00And so our job, I think, as managers has grown, it's big, it's a difficult skill set to be able to be a spokesperson on a daily basis, lead a group of varying degrees of experience players, run a staff, and then align with the front office on the bigger vision of the organization.
44:20And so when all those things need to be accounted for when managers take over or managers get extended or managers, you know, come under scrutiny.
44:32So for me, I think that the job's never been bigger.
44:35I think the influence can be felt.
44:37You can see the influences in the different styles in which all of us go about our business.
44:41But I love it.
44:44Like, I love that responsibility to try to be good at multiple aspects of this job and run a successful franchise from the manager's chair and the responsibilities that you're given.
44:56And I'm looking forward to seeing how organizations align.
45:00You know, there are new general managers in a couple places which are going to redefine what those managing jobs are like.
45:07And there's also some surprises.
45:10Like, no one thought that San Diego was going to be open.
45:12I hope Schulte's doing okay.
45:14And, you know, he's definitely taking care of himself.
45:17And now all of a sudden, that's an enormous job that can compete right away when it comes to who has access to that job and how good a team that that manager would inherit.
45:28So fun to dissect all of this.
45:31And obviously, there are capable staff members all over the league that are going to get asked on.
45:37And that's going to create a whole shuffle of coaches all over the league.
45:41And that's what the next month is going to be about behind the scenes until things are reported and we see these chairs get filled.
45:47So it's one of the best jobs in baseball, despite the stress and the agony and the ups and downs, because you're connected to the players.
45:55You're connected to the organization.
45:57And you're a central force in driving performance, you know, from the manager's seat.
46:04Yeah, well, you said it's one of the best jobs.
46:06You're one of the best at the job.
46:08And John and I always – it was a tough end to your season.
46:11It's not even a week.
46:12And we – John and I as always appreciate you joining us on the show.
46:15Yeah, I appreciate you guys.
46:16Be well.
46:23John and I, of course, thank A.J. Hinch, friend of the show, for joining us on the show.
46:28John, hit or error?
46:30I'm going to give a hint.
46:31That crazy play last night at 8-62, double play, force outs at home and at third.
46:38By the way, it was funny when they announced that it was a ground into double play.
46:41The ball hit the top of the wall.
46:43Very quirky.
46:44I don't think any of us have ever seen it.
46:46Jason Stark was here.
46:47I don't think he's ever seen it.
46:48So if he hasn't seen it, it hasn't happened before.
46:52Really unusual play.
46:53And I know people are going to jump on the Dodgers.
46:55Obviously, Teoscar Hernandez didn't play it well because, you know, once it hits the stand on third, once it hits the glove, then run in.
47:01You know, because it looked like there was a shot that he was going to catch it even off the bat.
47:05So obviously, the Dodgers didn't play it right.
47:07But I give the Brewers credit for knowing what was going on.
47:10I give the umpires credit for seeing it.
47:12It's why we have outfield umpires in the biggest games.
47:16They made the right call.
47:17They certainly understood what was going on all along.
47:20Ball did hit it off the top of the wall.
47:22So it was a force out at home and a force out at third.
47:26I think the issue was that the Dodger base runners were looking for a signal from the second base umpire.
47:33But there are extra umpires here.
47:34And the signal came from the left field umpire.
47:37And they didn't see it.
47:38They didn't see it.
47:39And they didn't know what was going on.
47:40They assumed that the ball had been caught because they saw the juggling and that Freeland
47:44could come up with it and got confused.
47:46I understand that.
47:47I'm giving the Brewers credit for understanding what the call was, paying that close attention
47:53and making the play.
47:54Ortiz made a fantastic throw home.
47:57Certainly, uh, Contreras did a great job getting the force out at third also.
48:01So I'm going to call that a hit on the, for the Brewers and the umpires.
48:06Yeah, you know, and you mentioned it, left field umpire called it right away, uh, you
48:10know, that it, that it was a ball in play.
48:13John, you know what I kept thinking about how crazy that was, is if Teoscar Hernandez had
48:17actually tagged up correctly, but the other two guys did what they did, could, if the Brewers
48:23executed it well, they threw the ball to third for a tag, for a force at third, and then
48:28to second for a force at second.
48:30I still think the run doesn't score then, right?
48:32Because it's a double play on force outs, so there still would have been a way, even
48:36if Hernandez handled it well, as long as the, uh, Brewers handled it well in order, where
48:41they went third first and second second, I, it, well, it, the way it happened was crazy
48:46enough, but of course the way my brain thinks, I was already thinking about the crazier version
48:49of the play.
48:51John, uh, I'm going to give, go, go off the board a little here, and I'm going to give
48:55a hit to Dan Campbell, uh, and see if I could make this a little baseball related.
49:01Uh, I don't know if you saw the end of the game, what happened, uh, his safety, Brian
49:06Branch slapped Juju Smith-Schuster of the Chiefs, uh, with a, like, across his head, knocked
49:13him to the ground after the game, you know, at the moment where everyone was supposed
49:15to be shaking hands, even though they had gone to battle, uh, it was a real cheap shot,
49:20it was awful, and Dan Campbell went to the podium afterwards, and before taking a question,
49:26he called it inexcusable what his own player did, said, this isn't how we're going to behave
49:31and it won't happen again, like, he didn't wait for a question, and the reason I'm bringing
49:36it up in this forum, John, is we deal with plenty of times where managers, coaches, players
49:40do the, oh, I haven't seen the film yet, or I haven't talked to the player yet, or just
49:47because he's wearing the same uniform, they come up with the most bizarre stories
49:50ever to forgive bad behavior, here's something like I hear all the time, you can't be tough
49:56on players anymore, it's this generation, if you ever say anything negative, you'll lose
50:00the clubhouse, et cetera, Dan Campbell went and said, inexcusable was inexcusable, and I
50:07have now, when I don't have a horse in the race, I could hardly care who wins, I am now
50:12a Detroit Lions fan for the rest of the season, and I'm rooting for the Lions to win the Super
50:16Bowl, because I deal with enough, and I think you do also, enough nonsense where, because
50:22nobody wants to stand up to bad behavior on these fields, for fear of losing their clubhouse,
50:28they don't call what is happening in front of their eyes in an honest fashion, so I give
50:34Dan Campbell a lot of credit and hope people across the sports landscape realize that bad
50:39behavior should be called out. Yeah, I mean, I'm with you, I didn't see it, I'm actually proud
50:45of myself, been trying to give up football for a while, maybe just because I'm so ensconced in
50:50the baseball that I've been able to do it, I actually did find the baseball at a bar by
50:55walking, I mean, it's the playoffs, shouldn't the bars all have baseball on, you know, maybe I'm crazy,
51:01but they're all watching a regular season football game, I don't know, was that, that might have
51:06been the game, I guess, right, it was his Monday night, you know, I saw a hint of it on Twitter,
51:11good for him, I mean, doing anything otherwise would have been ridiculous, based on what you
51:17describe, I did not see the play, but that sounds ridiculous, right, I mean, but, all right, yeah,
51:24good, good for Dan Campbell, I'd like to see some good behavior in football, even if it's by a coach,
51:30but I'm going to say, it's not going to cause me to watch the Root for the Lions, or even watch
51:37any more games, I'm hoping, I'm hoping I'd stay away, you're not going to be able to do that,
51:40I know, but I'm going to, I think I'm going to be able to do it. You have a much more exciting life
51:44than me, John, I've got nothing going on. John, on the subject of good actors, we try to put this
51:51all together very quickly, because of where you are, where I am, looking into a camera, etc.,
51:56that's Brian Rakowski here, if you could see it, John, it's Tommy Hogan there,
52:01they do a great job at a second's notice to make this happen today, Apple, Spotify,
52:06wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate, review us, subscribe, leave some comments,
52:11it does help the show, if you like the show, please help the show along the way, you could also do that
52:15by going to the New York Post Sports YouTube page, we are doing this on camera, you could give us a
52:21view, tell us what you think there, and look, we're only about midway through the postseason,
52:26we've got a lot to do, we'll be doing all the hot stove in the offseason as well,
52:30if you stick with us, on the show, with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
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