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00:00Hello and welcome to the Pinchstripe Post. It's always a pleasure when Joel Sherman joins us here in studio.
00:04Today is Monday, May 11th. Joel, the Yankees are coming off getting swept by the Milwaukee Brewers.
00:08I'm interested to hear your thoughts about this. There's some narratives being built.
00:11Are the Yankees not good against good teams in the Major League Baseball?
00:14We're going to break it down on today's episode for Pinchstripe Post.
00:17It's a drive by Derry Dyson.
00:21Charles Chisholm goes deep.
00:26Well, Joel, as always on a Monday, I like to ask you, how are you doing today and how's it
00:32going right now?
00:33You know the answer to that question. I do, that's why.
00:34Because you just saw me on the phone with my car guy giving me crap.
00:40But, yeah, no, everything's good.
00:44Interesting. It's just like the second or third time this year both the Mets and Yankees weren't at home at
00:48the same time.
00:49It felt like it, right?
00:49Which is bizarre. Usually there's a game in town every day, especially over the weekend.
00:55So it was like a weird weekend for me not to beat a ballpark.
00:57Yeah, definitely. It's unusual. At least that one team is here.
01:01Obviously, we've got the Knicks back in a deep playoff run.
01:03So that gave us a little bit of flavor here locally.
01:05But, yeah, it was weird that both teams were on the road.
01:08I might make a lot of Knick analogies today.
01:10I don't blame you because, look, that's the team that everyone wants to talk about right now.
01:13Because baseball just this past weekend has not been pretty for New York.
01:16But I want to start with real or unreal.
01:18Unreal. Because the stat is out there, Joel, about the Yankees early on are 1-8 against teams with a
01:24winning record in Major League Baseball on their schedule.
01:27We heard Aaron Boone in the postgame immediately shut that down.
01:30I think Greg was the one that asked him in the postgame about it.
01:33And he's like, no, we're a good team.
01:34We just had a bad series.
01:35So, is it real or unreal right now?
01:38Just early on, them against the A's, against the Rays, against the Brewers, they're 1-8.
01:45Yeah.
01:45So, if the Knicks play the Pistons in the Eastern Finals, who's going to be the favorite?
01:51It's going to be the Pistons.
01:52You think the Pistons are going to be favorite?
01:53I mean, they finish with a better record.
01:55They beat the Knicks all regular season long.
01:57Do you think that what happened during the regular season – in other words, like, I think teams change over
02:03the course of the season in a narrow change.
02:04So, I'm not dismissing that the Yankees have lost series to better teams so far this year.
02:10But I think, in part, like, I think the Rangers would be over .500 if they hadn't played the Yankees
02:15this year.
02:15Yeah.
02:16Right?
02:16Like, so, like, the Yankees have knocked a couple of teams under .500.
02:20I think the Yankees are a very good team that has had a couple of moments here with bad teams.
02:25I think if they played the Rays in the playoffs, they'd be the favorites.
02:28I think if they played the A's in the playoffs, they'd be the favorites.
02:31I think if they played the Brewers in the playoffs, they'd be the favorites.
02:35That being said, I wouldn't completely dismiss it.
02:40But I would point out, like, for example, since the beginning of 2023 – since the beginning of – let's
02:47do the beginning of 2024 through this second.
02:50Sure.
02:50The three teams with the best records against winning teams are the Brewers, who don't win in the postseason, though
02:57they beat winning teams all the time.
02:58They do.
02:58All the time.
02:59The Dodgers and the Yankees.
03:00Those are the top three in best record against teams with winning records.
03:06Do I think it means anything?
03:07I would say it means little but not nothing.
03:12Okay.
03:12Because the one thing that I've noticed when they lose is I do think the Yankees are much better on
03:18defense than they've been the last few years.
03:20But when they play some of these better teams and it's a close game and the ball is in play
03:26a lot, they start to get less clean with the ball.
03:29They get tight.
03:30Yes.
03:31They're less clean with the ball.
03:32So my thing would be are they exposing an issue that the Yankees have to think about?
03:38Like, for example, I have no idea what's going on with Ryan McMahon's arm.
03:42Yeah.
03:42Like, that felt like a true arm last season.
03:45Does he have the yips?
03:46Is he hiding an injury?
03:48Is there something going on there?
03:50Uh, because that hasn't, uh, been, been good.
03:54Uh, I think the, the scoops with Ben Rice are always going to be an issue, uh, at least in
03:59the short term here, as he learns the position.
04:02Uh, I think that, uh, their catchers are going to have trouble throwing guys out at second base, uh, a
04:08little bit.
04:08But, you know, in one of those, any five games you're going to play, Freed is pretty much going to
04:12shut down a running game, though.
04:14Friday night, obviously some stuff happened.
04:16Uh, look, I, I think the Yankees very easily could have won two of these three games.
04:21And, and just to go back, I'm very, remember where we were, the Brewers opened up against the Yankees last
04:27season.
04:27We've all learned what torpedo bats were.
04:29The Yankees hit 15 homers and scored 36 runs in three games.
04:33And we were like, oh, look at these Brewers.
04:35Well, I think the Brewers had seven or eight pitching injuries.
04:38And I think Uribe was on the suspended list from hitting someone the previous year.
04:44Uh, and they got better and they want, they, they finished with the most wins in the regular season.
04:48And what stood out for me this weekend, especially watching Mizorowski is I know that we want to create this
04:54narrative of, oh, a team like that, you know, with the low payroll, they can't win.
04:59And, and I'm like, well, first of all, they have the best record against teams with winning records for multiple
05:03years now.
05:04And if this is who Mizorowski is and he stays healthy, do you want to see him in game?
05:09Who's one in five of the playoff series and good luck trying to figure out how to win the other
05:13ones.
05:13And then you watch all those power arms, especially left-handed.
05:16They have coming out of the bullpen.
05:18I actually think the Brewers are really good.
05:20They should get Christian Yelich back at some point because they need at least one more bat.
05:24I think they need two more bats.
05:25I think they should be very, this is not Milwaukee Brewer talk, but they should be aggressive and go get
05:30a bat in the, in the marketplace.
05:32Somebody who plays short or third, uh, preferably, uh, cause they're really good.
05:37No, they're really good.
05:38That's not a, the Yankees did not play well over the weekend.
05:40I'm not like whatever, but like, I, I'm not sure the Rays are going to have the depth of quality
05:47to get through the season.
05:49Like, like I like the top of the Rays lineup, but then it's kind of Peters out.
05:53But they've had, they've taken on some significant, a couple of significant pitching injuries, especially to Ryan Pepeo.
05:58I wonder about the length of their rotation and stuff like that.
06:01Ultimately, I still think it's the, I know Tampa Bay's ahead today.
06:04I think it's the Yankees division to win, to lose.
06:07Um, but Milwaukee's good.
06:09Yeah.
06:10No, I, I have no doubts.
06:11Milwaukee is one of the best teams in baseball.
06:13They play like it.
06:14I love their style.
06:15They play hard.
06:16Like after their manager, you could see the, the emotions they play with.
06:19And I, I, I have no doubts.
06:21That was a very good baseball team.
06:22The Yankees played, played this past weekend.
06:24Um, and two, and there were two toss up games.
06:27It was that could have, could have gone either way and it didn't go the Yankees way.
06:30And again, if you want to make something up, what is it?
06:32One in eight against teams.
06:34You can.
06:35So I would ask this question.
06:36There are seven games under 500 against teams with winning records.
06:39If you had to bet all your money, if they'd finished with a winning record against teams with winning records,
06:43would you bet yes or no?
06:45Yes.
06:45So like, like, that's one of the things I always, like, I think about Ryan in this kind of ecosystem
06:51where people scream at each other on these kind of shows is like, like, what do you really believe?
06:56Like, do you believe the Yankees can't, like I, one of my friends who's a Yankee fan, I texted down
07:01from the wall yesterday with the exact question I just asked you.
07:04I said, dude, we, we got, we got all your money in the bank here.
07:09We got to go one way or the other.
07:10You get to keep it or I get it.
07:12Do you think they'll have winning record?
07:13Well, I do.
07:14Then, then you're just moaning to moan a little bit.
07:16No, yeah, I know.
07:17It's like, it's like the, uh, don't cry on the yacht, right?
07:19Like that's, that's the, the theory right here.
07:21But I would say for me, I'm interested because I, I believe in your opinion.
07:25I know you get a good read on this team.
07:28And can I tell you what I'm thinking about a lot?
07:30Yeah.
07:30Which is besides the bullpen.
07:32Look, we'll, we'll get to that.
07:34But, but let, uh, what I'm thinking about a lot is, um, uh, the Yankees have regularly under Aaron Boone
07:44had kind of what we call the June swoon, whatever.
07:47The one that occurred in 2024 was they began that season with Cole on the injured list.
07:54And it was like, wow, how are they going to survive?
07:57And they're starting pitching.
07:58I went and looked it up, uh, uh, last night because I was curious about it.
08:02And I wrote about it for post plus tomorrow.
08:04So through June, about 14th last year, uh, of 2024, the Yankees had the best record in baseball.
08:12It was like 50 and 23.
08:14And they had by far the best rotation ERA in baseball in part because Louise Hill pitched like Cole filling
08:20in for Cole.
08:21Right.
08:21And then I picked that date because that was the date they announced Cole's going to start on the 19th.
08:27In other words, like they let go of the rope a little bit.
08:30It felt like, and for the next 33 games, they had their worst 33 game period since 1990, which was
08:38a team that had the worst record for the Yankees since they were the Highlanders in 1912.
08:43Now let's say this, the 2024 Yankees got their act back together and went to the world series.
08:49But I do think there's a psychological thing we've been talking about.
08:52When are they getting Rodon?
08:53When are they getting Cole?
08:54When are they getting Rodon?
08:55When are they getting Cole?
08:56Well, I wonder, no, nobody lets go of the rope purposefully, but is there a psychological thing of, wow, we
09:03had the best rotation ERA while Rodon and Cole were out.
09:06And now a little bit of the rope is like, wow, the, the saviors are here.
09:12The cavalry's running into town.
09:13I just thought about it a little as they were getting swept over the weekend and Rodon returned or returned
09:18to the rotation.
09:19And we kind of got a clearer idea that Cole's probably like one more rehab start and then back where
09:25it's like, oh, we, we not only survive, we thrive.
09:28And now everybody breathes a little bit and exhales and you got to be careful.
09:33A, you got to be careful of that.
09:34B, you have to be careful of sample sizes are always small.
09:38At this time last year, the Mets were flying.
09:42And you, and I literally was writing, these are the new Mets because they had gone to the NLCS game
09:51six the year before by rallying and playing great and then seemingly having a strong off season and starting off
09:57great where you felt like, ah, they finally got it together.
09:59And think about everything that's happened since the middle of June last year with the Mets.
10:02Now, do I think the Yankees are going to fall apart?
10:05I don't.
10:06But like, I also am always open to that.
10:09There's five or 10% chances of everything in the sport.
10:13And they have to be, it's a little careful moment here.
10:16Like they get the Orioles who they've beaten up.
10:19They kind of get it, get it right the next few days again.
10:22And kind of just like, Hey, like that was a bad weekend in Milwaukee.
10:25This isn't this June swoon may die, whatever thing you want to call it.
10:30We're not going to have one of those these this year, because I really do think one to 26 and
10:35really about one to 30, one to 35.
10:37This is the best Yankee team in a while.
10:39You've talked about the depth, Joel, multiple times on the show about how deep this team.
10:43I felt that right.
10:44Starting in spring training, I felt like it was going to be that kind of team.
10:48And I feel like this team shouldn't have that kind of swoon with the kind of starting pitching they could
10:54throw out day after day.
10:57You know, they had good pitching this weekend.
10:59It was playoff like pitching.
11:01I don't think they saw a playoff like pitching against the A's or the Raiders.
11:04I thought if you want to make something about can the Yankees beat a good team?
11:08It was this weekend.
11:09Yeah.
11:10Right.
11:10Like this is what it will probably look like in October.
11:13Well, I think it's curious that one, your thought, it makes a lot of sense in like letting go of
11:18the rope.
11:19The other thought I had was like 2024.
11:22Is this team really good at beating up on the bad teams?
11:24And then when they play the good teams that know how to run against them, test their pitchers and holding
11:29runners on defensively, I think they're better.
11:32They are now.
11:32But I just wonder, like, again, the mental fortitude.
11:35Do they have it?
11:36Can they get through the 162?
11:37It probably ties into the whole letting go of the rope situation, right?
11:40Like, I wonder, hey, man, you guys got to get up.
11:43Like, this is a good team that you're playing today.
11:44It's not the Orioles you're going to beat up on.
11:46It's not the, you know, the Red Sox you beat on this year.
11:48So I just wonder, like, it goes into that one and eight discussion of, like, do the Yankees understand, like,
11:54when they go up against the Rays, they go up against the Brewers.
11:56Like, this is a better opponent.
11:57Like, you've got to be on top of your P's and Q's.
11:59They're going to test you because they have good scouts and they have good people that are trying to find
12:04your weaknesses every series.
12:05It is interesting payroll-wise who we think of as the good teams right now.
12:09Right, yeah.
12:09Right, the A's, the Rays, and the Brewers.
12:13And also, look, the Yankees have done a lot of beating up on the American League.
12:16The American League has been bad.
12:17Right.
12:18You know, we're a quarter of the way through the season.
12:19There's not that many teams over 500 in the American League to say, hey, the Yankees have a winning record.
12:24Well, nobody has a winning record in the American League.
12:26So, I always leave a door open that, hey, you know, we saw it the other day.
12:34Cam Schlittler takes a line drive off his lower leg.
12:37You know, if that's a different spot and suddenly Schlittler, who's become incredibly valuable to them, he gets hurt.
12:44Like, you lose a guy.
12:45They've been really, you know, for them, knock on wood, relatively healthy.
12:50Stanton and Dominguez, you know.
12:53How about that with Dominguez?
12:54How bad of luck?
12:55I mean, the guy knows defensively the narratives out there.
12:58He can't be good defensively.
12:59So, he's certainly going after the ball in a way he probably wouldn't have on, you know, May, whatever.
13:06If he's a good defense.
13:07You know, if it's Cody Bellinger, does he just turn around and play the ball off the wall and accept
13:10the double?
13:11Because whatever.
13:12Or if it's Cody Bellinger, catch it a lot easier.
13:15Right.
13:15Yeah.
13:17Dominguez has taken on some stuff that's been interesting.
13:21But it opens another door.
13:22It's an interesting door to see what Spencer Jones does.
13:25Were you surprised by that?
13:27No.
13:27No?
13:27No.
13:28I think that they are, like, who is the next man up?
13:31I will say this.
13:32If the next man up was close and hit right-handed, I think they would have brought it.
13:37They just don't have a righty hitter sitting at AAA.
13:40It's a soft spot for them, you know, for a team that does have depth.
13:46But they do have a lot of righties on the bench.
13:48You know, the Goldschmidt-Rosario, you know, group on the bench kind of gives them some of this.
13:54I thought the other option was Volpe and then use Rosario and Caballero in the outfield.
14:04But I think they are – I don't think they'll say it out loud.
14:10But I think that they're concerned they have a good thing going right now.
14:14I wrote about this a little bit where it's, like, they know Volpe's a lightning rod.
14:19And if, like, he comes up and Caballero's in the outfield and everybody's, like, well, this is the better shortstop.
14:25And, like, why is this guy here?
14:27And he just booted a ball and it cost a game.
14:28So I think they want that to happen, if it's going to happen this year, to happen more organically.
14:33And I do think there's still a door for that to happen.
14:36I think we're starting to see Caballero's offense catch up to his metrics, which is the metrics aren't very good.
14:42He doesn't hit it hard.
14:44He chases a lot, et cetera.
14:45I think because he's a bizarre player who's completely unafraid and has bat skills, you know, there'll still be some
14:52doubles and homers.
14:53But I wonder if, like, batting average, on-base, OPS, everything just keeps falling to, like, a much lower level.
15:02And you look up and about, like, late June and go, is it organic now, where he is offensively, to
15:08turn Caballero back into what they thought he was, which was the 10th man.
15:13Late game, difference-making pinch runner.
15:16Move him around.
15:16Now, again, I'm always open to the possibility.
15:18Maybe Caballero's young guy, relatively still.
15:22Yeah.
15:22Maybe he is a starting shortstop.
15:24He's better defensively than Volpe right now.
15:26I don't think that's close.
15:27Yeah.
15:27You know, like, I think the Yankees might argue it's close.
15:31I don't think it's close.
15:32Because I also think that Caballero is, you could hit it to him in a big spot.
15:37And I think you'd feel way more confident about him playing the ball and making the throw.
15:44There is still a bit of an out-of-control element.
15:48It's an interesting double-play combination, him and Jazz.
15:51Yes.
15:52Because sometimes they both, they're both so talented.
15:54And they both could be out of control sometimes.
15:59But the upside for both is an interesting upside.
16:02And I think if Volpe's going to come back, it's got to be an organic.
16:07Sure.
16:07Not an injury, not a shortstop.
16:10So it can't be an outfield injury and he's back.
16:12And so to me, that was a long-winded way of saying, you know, Spencer Jones kind of had earned
16:18it.
16:18It was either him or Yankel Fernandez.
16:21I think it's your draft pick.
16:23I think they were curious enough.
16:25Let's see what it looks like.
16:26And I think that's why he's here.
16:28What have you thought of him so far, Bats?
16:29I mean, obviously, it's a lot of strikeouts like he was in AAA.
16:32But that's a tough matchup going against Mizorowski on Friday night for your first game in the major leagues.
16:37Look, I will say this is, would we agree?
16:41Aaron Judge is probably one of the best 25 hitters who's ever lived.
16:45Yes.
16:45Okay?
16:47Aaron Judge's 2016 two-month cameo, he struck out over 40% of the time.
16:52That's Aaron Judge.
16:52Like, at about the same age, by the way, same profile, right?
16:56College player, didn't get here until 25 kind of thing, and he does.
17:02If Spencer Jones was 70% of Aaron Judge, that would be a miracle.
17:07Like, it's probably not going to happen again.
17:08But I think the reason the Yankees drafted Spencer Jones was the Yankees' philosophy, I believe, has become that they
17:21never get a top 10.
17:23They haven't drafted in the top 10 since 1993.
17:26You know, they've been really good, and either they've been really good and or they've even lost first-round picks
17:31when that was compensation.
17:32So, whatever.
17:34If there is a chance to draft somebody with a big ceiling, even though there's a low floor, do it.
17:43Because to play for the Yankees or to have incredible trade value for the Yankees, you need ceiling.
17:48And so I asked one of their people in the offseason, I was like, why haven't you guys traded Spencer
17:56Jones?
17:57And the answer basically was, right now, we could trade Spencer Jones for, like, in scouting terms, you know, it's
18:05the 2 to 8 scale or 20 to 80, like a 40 or a 50, right?
18:10He goes, we're the Yankees.
18:11We should just be buying 40s and 50s.
18:13He goes, Spencer Jones could be a 6 or a 7, right?
18:18Will he be a 6 or 7?
18:19Probably not.
18:20But we should find that out as opposed to trading him for a 4.
18:25Like, if you're telling me we could trade him as part of a package for Tarek Skubal, okay.
18:30Sure.
18:30But, like, to me, I think they want to run this race to see.
18:35And I think that they probably know the more likely outcome is he's never going to contact the ball enough
18:42to be a high-level major league player.
18:46But what you could get for him in return in a trade is not valuable enough not to find out.
18:51Sure.
18:51And I think at this moment where, like, they're going well, I think it's the right moment to take a
19:00look and to get his feet wet a little.
19:02And to also, because you lived through the Aaron Judge experience, know that, hey, Aaron Judge, not one of the
19:11greatest Yankee hitters ever,
19:12but one of the greatest hitters ever, struck out over 40% of the time that first cameo in 2016
19:19and not an insignificant amount of at-bats.
19:20It was two months' worth of at-bats.
19:22And that I would expect you're going to get no less than that from Jones.
19:26And what you're going to have to see is what you saw with Judge, which is when the ball hits
19:31the bat in the major leagues, does it go for something where you sit and could dream on, hey, we
19:38now know what his gaps are.
19:40There are always going to be gaps with a guy that size.
19:43Can he close them up enough that when there are mistakes, 40 times a year, the ball goes over the
19:49fence?
19:50Yeah.
19:50And he becomes, to some degree, Adam Dunn with athleticism, where it's like lots of walks, lots of strikeouts, 40
19:58homers, but you can put him in the field.
19:59That guy becomes a valuable player, maybe not on a championship team, where then you have to trade him, but
20:06then you know his full value, but a pretty valuable player.
20:10Yeah.
20:11Weird batting stance for Spencer Jones.
20:13Weird, like that modified Otani thing where there's a lot of movement there to try to get into a hitting
20:18position.
20:18Very squatted and such a tall position.
20:19Look, Ryan, I want to be clear on this because I'm always afraid of, again, our aggregator friends, where are
20:25they here?
20:27There is a 0% chance this guy's going to be Aaron Judge.
20:30There's a 0% chance probably anyone else who ever plays Major League Baseball is going to be 6'7
20:35and hit like Aaron Judge.
20:39But I think the Yankees have enough experience with that size player and how bad a start that player had
20:49to have a level of tolerance here
20:51to see if there is the inkling of 65%, 70%, 75% of Aaron Judge.
20:57Because, again, what makes Aaron Judge incredibly valuable beyond everything else, if he was just the designated hitter,
21:05he would be one of the most valuable players in baseball.
21:07But he's also an above-average outfielder and an above-average base runner.
21:10So, like, I think they see an above-average outfielder probably outside of center field for Jones and an above
21:17-average base runner.
21:18And so, again, how much of his power could he get to where the strikeouts at a high level are
21:24acceptable?
21:25And are the strikeouts 32% or are they 45%?
21:29Right.
21:30It's a good question, Joel.
21:31And it goes into, I think, again, the larger discussion about the Yankees' offense.
21:36And I don't know if you saw this.
21:37Do you know the Yankees rank dead last in MLB with 181 singles this season?
21:42And that the Braves, who have the best record in Major League Baseball, and the Rays, who have the best
21:45record in the AL,
21:46both have the most singles in their respective divisions of 248 and 247 in all of baseball.
21:51So I just think that's interesting, like, about that all-or-nothing approach with the Yankees.
21:55If it's curious, again, it's early observations, again, I think about that 2024 season.
22:00It was just Judge and Soto.
22:01Can I throw in one thing on there?
22:03So I would say this is, was it maybe David Cohn said it the other day where he said,
22:15I want to give it to the right person, and I might be wrong about it.
22:19And it's something I've always thought also.
22:20I call it hidden slugging percentage, right?
22:23Like, if you're a singles hitter but you steal second all the time, that's like a hidden double.
22:27Like, there should be slugging percentage worked in there.
22:31So, yes, the Yankees have a limited number of singles, but who reaches first base the most?
22:37In other words, now you want to add, for a team, they have about a 13% walk rate, which
22:41leads the Major League.
22:42Right.
22:42So they're actually on first base plenty.
22:45Would you – and I think the exchange is because they walk a lot, they homer a lot because they're
22:51looking for their pitch,
22:52and they're being pitched in a certain way because there's so many homerun hitters that they're drawing more walks.
22:58So the question is, are you reaching first base often?
23:01Okay.
23:01And so, like, yeah, they're down on singles, and you wish that they're – like, especially some guys who don't
23:07hit it out of the park as much,
23:08you wish there were some more just, hey, slap it on, whatever.
23:12But their philosophy is get on base, on base percentage, right?
23:19They're near the top of the sport.
23:20So, like, does it matter why you're standing on first base?
23:26Because I also think the walks reflect a team that hits the ball out of the stadium more than anyone
23:33else.
23:33And if I ask you before the – at any point, but certainly before the season,
23:37would you rather your team lead the majors in homers and walks or singles?
23:41Homers and walks.
23:42Yeah.
23:42Well, they're leading in homers and walks, I believe.
23:45That's a better way to run.
23:47Right.
23:47I can understand that philosophy.
23:49It's just – it goes again to – I want to ask you about Trent Grisham.
23:53Again, I know what you've said to us.
23:55Like, Ryan, Trent Grisham's got a good eye.
23:58He's had some bad luck in terms of weighted expected on base percentage.
24:01I know he hits the ball hard, and it's just – it's a lot of bad luck.
24:04But he's still batting sub-200 right now.
24:06I know he had a good game against the Rangers on Thursday.
24:10But I just wonder if they're doing more harm than good with someone in the leading off the lineup
24:16who's batting sub-200 right now.
24:18I know his job is to get on base in front of a judge like you're talking about with getting
24:21on, just walk there.
24:22But I do wonder, like, is this guy really for the long term – his career batting average is like
24:27200, 215, 220?
24:29I think the best you're hoping for is about a 230 batting average and a 330 on base percentage
24:34and, say, like a 430 slugging percentage.
24:37Okay.
24:37If you got that, that would be a very good season for him.
24:40I think it's within his profile to get there.
24:43Then the question becomes against the righty starter – because against the lefty, I think you'll see a lot of
24:47Goldschmidt.
24:48Against the righty starter, who would you have leading off?
24:51Would you go to Caballero?
24:53Because, again, I think that – I think Caballero and Grisham are the 180-degree opposites of each other.
24:59Right.
24:59Right?
25:00Caballero's predictive metrics are bad, and he's outperforming them.
25:06Trent Grisham's predictive metrics are good, and he's underperforming them.
25:11Over the course of time, often, those normalize for 162 games.
25:16So you would think there's a lot in the bank for Grisham, and you would think there's something not in
25:21the bank for Caballero.
25:23But you've got to play the game in front of you, and so the question becomes, who would you have
25:29hit leadoff?
25:30And I do think one of the things that Grisham gives you is the ability to draw a walk in
25:34front of Judge and Rice and ultimately Stanton when he's around, which you want,
25:40and a little bit of a chance to get the ball out of the ballpark, especially at home, which you
25:45like.
25:46And I'm not sure that Caballero's patience goes up hitting in front of Judge.
25:50Like, he's going to get the ball right down the middle.
25:52Right.
25:53Against him.
25:55I'm not saying not to, but, like, I guess the question becomes, who would you have hit in the spot?
25:59Would you take Ben Rice out of an RBI spot and go Rice-Judge to open the lineup?
26:04Probably not.
26:05You'd be in a tough spot.
26:06I wonder if Bellinger could be a leadoff guy for you.
26:08God, I really love him behind them.
26:10You love them behind Judge?
26:11I do.
26:12Because I actually prefer Rice behind Judge.
26:14I know, that's another thing I'd like.
26:15Because here's the thing is, I think Judge is going to be on base a lot.
26:19Mm-hmm.
26:20Right?
26:20Because of the walks.
26:22And the one thing about Bellinger is, I know he's going to get it in play.
26:26Okay.
26:26Like, and I don't know that about Rice.
26:28I kind of like Rice in front of Judge.
26:31In that two spot right there.
26:32I do.
26:32Yeah.
26:32Like, if it worked perfect against righty pitching, I think it would be Grisham, Rice,
26:37Judge, Bellinger.
26:38Okay.
26:39But by the way, wherever you play Bellinger is fine.
26:43Yeah.
26:43He's going to be good.
26:45You want my next basketball one?
26:46Sure.
26:47Isn't Bellinger like OG Ananobi?
26:49I was thinking the same thing.
26:50I mean, he's good.
26:50Isn't he just like kind of good at everything and helps you win a game in some way every day?
26:55So good last week.
26:55He was so good last week.
26:56All over the field.
26:57Well, he's just good at everything.
26:58He's good, like, like how easily he scored from first base on the double.
27:02I was like, well, I was expecting a tight play there.
27:06And it was like, he scored easy just because he's a good base runner.
27:09He's good jump, cutting bases.
27:11He saves five feet because he's a good base runner.
27:14And so it's not, not a close play.
27:16And he's, man, he's mastered left field at Yankee Stadium.
27:21As we see when visitors come in at daytime and they can't find the fly ball.
27:25And then you watch that guy play left field in daytime at Yankee Stadium.
27:28Can't take it for granted.
27:29Yeah.
27:29Like, like he's just a really, really good player.
27:34I do want to switch over to the bullpen here.
27:37That was something, again, Bednar we see with the opportunity to, isn't the ninth inning?
27:42It was a tie game.
27:43Gives up, sorry.
27:43Yeah.
27:44Ninth inning gives up the walk-off home run.
27:46We saw Tim Hill make the horrible play, fielding the ball towards third baseline, throws it to third for the
27:52force out.
27:53Don't know why he didn't go to first for the easy out.
27:55But the bullpen itself, it's been good.
27:58Like, it's been better than we thought we would hope.
28:01And everything's by comparison.
28:02Correct.
28:02By comparison.
28:02The bullpen has been bad in baseball.
28:05Right.
28:05And theirs has been in the top third pretty much for the season.
28:08And the guys who, besides Duvall, who I think they're going to have to make some tough decisions about.
28:14Like, the guys who screwed up this weekend.
28:17Like, Hedrick gave up a homer.
28:18But Hedrick's been really good.
28:19He's been really good for them.
28:20He's going to give up five to eight homers this year.
28:23That was one of the five to eight he's probably going to give up.
28:26First homer Bednar's given up this year.
28:28First homer Bednar give up.
28:29He's going to give up five to eight probably.
28:31You know he's going to blow some games.
28:34Tim Hill is usually, like, the most level-headed player on the field.
28:37He made a really bonehead play.
28:39Because either he made a bonehead play or he didn't know how many outs there were.
28:41Like, whatever cover story you'd like for that.
28:45It kind of doesn't fit his profile of what he normally is.
28:48So, like, the three guys you probably wanted to see most in a game for the Yankees this year.
28:53And are going to be part of their solution.
28:55Even when it's Weathers in the bullpen.
28:58And maybe Lagrange in the bullpen.
29:00And the guy or two they trade for.
29:02You're still going to be like, oh, you're comfortable with heat.
29:05The guy who's – they're going to have to make tough decisions on Duvall.
29:11And I think – look, I think Fernando Cruz is a fascinating guy.
29:16But to me, somebody who walks that – I think there's nothing more detrimental than –
29:23when you're a relief pitcher, the two things you want to avoid to me are walks and homers.
29:27Right?
29:27And I – it's like Tim Hill never strikes anybody out.
29:36But he doesn't walk anybody.
29:37He doesn't give up homers.
29:38And he's a ground ball guy.
29:39So, you've got to get a lot of ground balls to score runs on him.
29:43Like, Bednar essentially keeps the ball in the ballpark and doesn't walk guys.
29:46Like, they have profiles I like.
29:48Even if you say neither guy should be a ninth inning.
29:50Even if you want to say Bednar shouldn't be the ninth inning guy.
29:52I'm comfortable with him as the eighth inning guy.
29:54Because you're going to have to earn your victory off of him.
29:57You're going to have to earn a victory off of Hill.
29:58The guy who Hedrick has been this year, you're going to have to earn a victory off of him.
30:04Obviously, Cruz has a devastating pitch.
30:06But he's very Tommy Canely to me.
30:09Like, it's a devastating pitch.
30:10But how often is it in the strike zone?
30:13And how often is it first and second?
30:14Because you've walked two guys and now you do need the strikeout, et cetera.
30:18He's very good.
30:20But him and Duvall are both more worrisome pieces for me.
30:27And I wonder if Duvall should be sent to the minors at some point.
30:34And I think they have a fascinating thing coming up.
30:38If nobody gets hurt, what are they doing when Cole comes back?
30:42Do you think Cole's two weeks away?
30:44Is that really what the timeline you think is?
30:45Or is he even sooner?
30:46I think he's always probably been about June 1st.
30:51I think he could be back today.
30:53I think they're thinking big picture of let's control, control.
30:57Because when he comes back, they then want him to make all the starts from here until the last day
31:02of their season, whenever that is.
31:04Which could, because they're good enough, maybe be the World Series.
31:08You know, that's what you're dreaming on.
31:10It's very much the Otani path last year.
31:12Otani could have pitched from the beginning of the season last year.
31:15I don't think he pitched until mid-June.
31:17Because the Dodgers were like, we want him to start a game, a series in the postseason.
31:21I would think the Yankees would want minimum a game, a series for Cole.
31:25And so I think that their hold, hold, it's, they have the best rotation ERA in the majors.
31:32It isn't, and when you, when, when it's perfect, let's bring him.
31:37And then the question becomes, what do you do?
31:41Does he bump?
31:41Now, they can do, like, I'll give you an example that's going on someplace else.
31:46Bryce Miller has missed this entire season so far for Seattle, who's a very good starting pitcher.
31:51He's back this week.
31:54They have five other starters.
31:56Emerson Hancock has kind of been like, they're Will Warren.
32:00Like, they put him in the rotation, and he's pitched well.
32:03The guy who hasn't pitched well for them is Luis Castillo.
32:06But you don't really want to take Luis Castillo out.
32:08So they're going to go, I think, at least two times around their rotation with six guys.
32:13Because I think they got 13 or 14 games in a row, something like that.
32:17And then they'll make another decision.
32:18Essentially, they're kicking the can.
32:20Like, will somebody get hurt?
32:22Will performance make it obvious?
32:24Will we have a re-injury with the guy we're bringing back?
32:28I wouldn't be surprised with the Yankees is if nothing injury-wise happens between now and, let's just say it's
32:37June 1st.
32:38Sure.
32:39Okay?
32:39That's 20 days away.
32:40May 25th.
32:41Whatever day it is.
32:42Right?
32:43If nothing happens, I wouldn't be surprised if the Yankees did a six-man turn a time or two.
32:50They probably want to slow Schlittler down a little bit also for total number of innings this year.
32:55They always want to, I think, slow down Weathers, who I don't think has ever even thrown 100 innings.
33:00Yeah, you said he hasn't even thrown that many innings.
33:01Right, in a season.
33:03And just, like, again, buy themselves time.
33:06See if it solves itself.
33:07Somebody gets hurt, et cetera.
33:09Somebody performs or doesn't perform.
33:11Then I think they have, you'll be into, like, June-ish someplace, a couple of weeks into June.
33:16You're going to have to make a decision.
33:19Weathers or Warren.
33:20And do they go to AAA or do they go into your bullpen?
33:24Because, like, the bullpen isn't, is a very short-term, obviously, concern.
33:31But I think, again, comparatively, they've been fine.
33:35And I think they have some internal ways to get better.
33:38And I think they have enough prospects that pick your guy.
33:42Like, they'll be, then you've got to get it right.
33:45You've got to make sure you get the, you know, most, I always encourage people, well, I'm sure we'll do
33:50shows in July.
33:52Every, trades in July of any type hardly ever help a team.
33:57I know it seems like, oh, go, you've got to do.
34:02It's an inefficient market with relief pitchers.
34:05It's particularly so because usually the relief pitcher you get is usually Jake Bird.
34:10It's a guy who's performed really well to that point.
34:12But if they've got a 2 ERA and they're really a 4 ERA pitcher, it means they're probably going to
34:17pitch to a 6 ERA the rest of the year.
34:19So you also have to, like, be very careful.
34:21Like, when you're going after a reliever, go after a guy who's either got a solid track record and is
34:26just going to do that.
34:27Okay.
34:27Or go after a guy who your peripheral show, like, you just love and you feel will work.
34:32Because, like, the Yankees have done this a few times where it's like, wow, Scott Efros, Jake Bird, like, the
34:37guy who's pitching Mark Leiter Jr.
34:39He's pitching really well in the moment.
34:41He's also not pitching in New York.
34:42He's also not pitching under the playoff pressure in New York.
34:46So, like.
34:47But they got Bednar last year.
34:48Yes.
34:48And obviously he's been great for that so far.
34:49But they got Duvall also who's been kind of, like, you watch Duvall's stuff.
34:53I mean, the Giants series, opening series, we were like, holy crap, look at these pitches he's throwing.
34:57And, you know, it's very, very tempting, but he's another guy, if you're on first, you're on second.
35:04He's not going to stop a running game at all.
35:07And in big game, when big games come around and scouting reports are going to be so acute, like, everyone,
35:15if he gives up a single or a walk, it's a double.
35:19So already you're under a dire situation where a guy's going to be, if the guy could run at all,
35:23he's going to be on second base.
35:24So he's just, he's not, like, I don't feel, like, Brett Hedrick doesn't have enough of a track record.
35:34But if he's the guy he's been for a month and a half here, he's part of an answer.
35:39Tim Hill has done enough for me to feel like he's part of an answer.
35:43David Bednar has done enough to feel he's part of an answer.
35:45So I think those three guys are going to be part of a bullpen.
35:47I think the guy you wonder about is Cruz.
35:50I think they like Jake Bird a lot more than I like Jake Bird.
35:53Yeah, they've used him a bunch here lately, too.
35:55But again, like, everything is by comparison.
35:57Like, by comparison, like, most teams would take to, the Mets would, like, give children up for Jake Bird at
36:03this point, right?
36:04Like, when you look at their bullpen.
36:07So everything's by comparison.
36:08But one of the comparisons is the Yankees aren't just comparing themselves.
36:12They're trying to win a championship.
36:13And I think they know this bullpen has to be better.
36:15And I think they have ways they believe it gets better internally.
36:19And I think that they know, come July, I mean, you might be able to trade Anthony Volpe in July.
36:26You might be able to trade Jason Dominguez in July.
36:29You might be able to, if you got healthy and threw a couple of games, Luis Hill in July.
36:33Some of the guys who've been important for you these last few years could become your trade chips for this
36:38year.
36:39Makes sense.
36:40Because Cole threw 77 pitches, I think, last Friday.
36:43And, you know, I just wonder, or it was yesterday.
36:44Yesterday.
36:45Sorry, he threw 77 pitches.
36:47He's got to be right there.
36:48I mean, Rodon was at 80 pitches, pretty much.
36:50And then they called him up and said, all right, you ready to go?
36:52Obviously, it's different coming from Tommy John than just...
36:54I do think, because I think they have these deceleration periods that they like to work in.
36:59And again, I just think with Cole, they're working backwards.
37:03Like, say we believe he's going to make three to five postseason starts.
37:08How many starts do we think we want him to make this year?
37:10We probably want to keep it to no more than 20.
37:12I was going to say no more than 20.
37:14Probably like 15.
37:15Right.
37:15So it's like 15 in the regular season, 15 in the...
37:20And I'm sure they are doing all kinds of mapping out.
37:22Hey, coming out of the All-Star break, if we make him the fifth starter, what does that look like?
37:27Well, yeah.
37:28I mean, if you carry that all the way into the All-Star break, that's a...
37:30Again, it presses the question, what do you do at Weathers?
37:32What do you do at Warren?
37:34And again, like, they're blessed.
37:36They haven't had to answer this question because of injury.
37:40So, like, the good news is they haven't had any injury.
37:43The bad news is they haven't had any injury to make it an obvious decision.
37:48And, like, what's going to happen is like what happened with Dominguez at the end of spring training, right?
37:53Where a lot of fans were upset.
37:54Why is he getting sent down?
37:56Well, the Yankees don't get special dispensation to carry a 27th guy.
38:00You've got to carry your actual roster, who you think will help you the most.
38:04And you've got to limit it to 26th.
38:06Your starting pitching has to generally be five guys.
38:08I guess you could play around with a six.
38:10But then you're worried about your bullpen.
38:12Now you're going to take a guy out of your bullpen.
38:14Correct.
38:14Like, so you don't want to do that.
38:16And, again, there was a lot of criticism of the Blackburn-Yarborough signings, right, in the offseason.
38:22That's been pretty good for them.
38:23Those guys have given them a lot of really quality innings so far.
38:27Blackburn gave them the start on Thursday against the Rangers.
38:29So, I mean, that's where, again, it begs the question, again, about Rodon Cole coming back.
38:34What kind of percentage are they going to be from their full 100% that they're going to be getting?
38:39Let's talk about Rodon.
38:40Four and a third yesterday.
38:41Gives up three runs.
38:43Walked three of the, I think, three of the four or five first inning leadoff batters.
38:48He's had that issue in his past before.
38:50Is that just, do you think, rust coming back into the majors, like him finding himself?
38:53I think you've got to give it some starts here.
38:55You know, in 24-25, this guy was a top 20 starter in the major leagues.
39:01I think you've got to give it.
39:03Is there more suspicion about him than Cole?
39:06Sure.
39:07Okay.
39:08And that's even Cole coming back from, obviously, a much more significant injury and procedure than Rodon.
39:17I think Rodon has done a great job changing a lot of the narrative around him since a very bad
39:24first year.
39:25But we know that first year doesn't leave everybody's memory bank.
39:30And every time he takes the ball, it isn't like the – I know because you know how many of
39:36my friends are Yankee fans who are like,
39:39ah, I don't really believe in that guy.
39:40And I go, I get it.
39:41I understand you.
39:42He's been pretty good.
39:44He has been.
39:45If you think of him as the number three or four starter, it's been pretty good.
39:48And on this team, which Littler, Freed, and Cole, he should be the number four starter.
39:53Yeah.
39:53I mean, look, I'm looking forward to seeing him build himself up stamina-wise.
39:57And if he can be another, like, just step in this rotation and taking that next step.
40:01And by the way, you did see it with him yesterday is he killed himself with walks.
40:04You know what it's hard to do against Carlos Rodon?
40:06Get a hit.
40:07So when he isn't beating himself, he often is very, very good.
40:12He beat himself yesterday.
40:13This stuff is nasty.
40:14When it's on, it's on.
40:16All right, Joel, let's go to Joel's notebook.
40:18You didn't tell me what this was going to be this week.
40:19I know.
40:20Well, you were a little preoccupied over there with your car.
40:23But I do want to ask you.
40:24Did they call me back?
40:27I know.
40:28Jeez.
40:28We have Subway Series action, the first of the season.
40:33It's at Citi Field.
40:34They're going to play Juan Soto again.
40:37I'm just curious, again, like, your thoughts about this Yankees-Mets.
40:40You know, like, I listened to what you said before about how the Mets,
40:44the first couple months of the season, look like one of the best teams in baseball,
40:46completely collapsed.
40:47It has not gone well for the Mets and David Sterns over there right now.
40:51But what about the Subway Series?
40:53Like, it still feels like it's a good time, as always.
40:56Yankees and Mets fans always like to compare themselves here.
40:59But what do you think about the Subway Series?
41:02Yeah.
41:02Is this the 30th anniversary of the Subways?
41:06It started in 97.
41:0897.
41:09So this is the 30th season?
41:10Yeah.
41:11We're getting of Interleague.
41:16So, look, I think that the modern Yankees will look back and think the best thing that ever
41:23happened to them is Juan Soto signed with the Mets.
41:26Wow.
41:26Okay.
41:27And that has nothing to do with Juan Soto, who's one of the, like, five best hitters I've
41:31ever seen.
41:31But remember what re-signing Juan Soto means.
41:35You don't sign Max Fried.
41:36Don't trade for Cody Bellinger.
41:38I don't think that any argument could be made that the Yankees aren't better with Fried
41:43and Bellinger over Soto.
41:45Because remember, the other thing that Soto brings is Judge still has to play center field,
41:49which means you're never going to be good on outfield defense, ever.
41:52Unless you shifted him to left, right?
41:54Or, I mean, the Mets convinced Soto to move to left field.
41:56I guess.
41:57Yes, but, like, you want Juan Soto playing left field at Yankee Stadium?
41:59Not the larger field.
42:00No, not left field, no.
42:01Like, he was an issue playing right field at Yankee Stadium.
42:04And it's like, it's not, it's just about fit.
42:08Right.
42:08It's not about who's the best player of that trio.
42:11It's Juan Soto, who's going to be, he's an obvious Hall of Famer.
42:14He's one of the greatest hitters for his age in history.
42:18But on that salary for that team, it was going to lock them up to do other things.
42:24As we saw last year, once they lose Cole, if they don't have Freed, they have Soto.
42:28I mean, would him and Judge have hit their way to a lot of wins?
42:31Probably.
42:32But they're a better team with Freed.
42:34And we were singing the praises of Bellinger before.
42:38Like, I just think Bellinger's a really brilliant baseball player who's kind of, like, almost revisiting,
42:46like he's going back in time to when he was an MVP candidate.
42:50I mean, if he plays exactly like he's playing now all year, he's going to finish in the top 10,
42:55maybe even better for MVP.
42:57Like, that's pretty special.
42:59He does everything well.
43:01Like, Soto does a singular thing spectacularly.
43:04And so I just think that the best thing that happened for the Yankees,
43:10not because of who Juan Soto is, but how they had to shape their roster.
43:14Judge would have stay in center.
43:18No Bellinger, no Freed.
43:20So the Yankees were almost lucky that Cohn came along and wanted him so badly.
43:25Now, having said that, like, I can't explain the Mets.
43:32Five, six weeks ago, I picked them to win the division.
43:37I thought they were going to be good.
43:39I partially thought they were going to be good because I actually thought they had depth.
43:42Like, looking back, I'm like, I always try to figure out when I get stuff wrong,
43:46why did I get – I'm not exactly, like, sure why I thought they had depth.
43:49But, like, when I was in spring training, I was like, oh, they could take a hit here.
43:52They could take a hit here.
43:53Now, they've taken a lot of hits.
43:55They've taken a lot of hits.
43:55They've taken a lot of hits.
43:57But, like, here's, like, one.
43:59Like, I can't figure them out.
44:00You could have told me a lot of things about Bo Bichette,
44:03including that he wouldn't be able to handle third base.
44:06But not hit?
44:09Like, this guy was a 300 hitter for his years in Toronto.
44:14He was a 340 hitter with runners in scoring.
44:17People say, well, like, runners in scoring position fluctuates.
44:21Not with Bo Bichette.
44:23He was great at it every year.
44:26Is it the mental preparedness of going to third, though, affecting the hitting?
44:30Okay, that's a good question.
44:32Last year, he didn't play for a month.
44:36He had a bad leg and went and played second base where he had never played before.
44:40And you could argue he was the best hitter on the Blue Jays in the World Series.
44:45Against the Dodgers and the best pitching and the biggest spots in a new position
44:49with a compromised leg after not playing for a month.
44:54And he hit, like, so, like, I would have just thought the guy would hit.
44:58It would have been him.
44:59I mean, he's hitting 200 with runners in scoring position.
45:03He's hitting, like, 200 overall.
45:05I just, like, the Mets are not going to survive.
45:10And maybe they're 10-ish or under already.
45:14So maybe that's the – I think they have the worst record in the sport right now.
45:18So maybe this is just who they are.
45:20They're going to be bad.
45:21But I know it's not, like, surmountable if him and Soto don't hit to carry them while Lindor is out
45:29and Polanco's out and Luis Robert's out to do that.
45:32And those guys haven't hit.
45:33Yeah.
45:34And I just – I would have said, hey, things have gone terribly wrong for the Mets.
45:39I'd be like, well, at least Soto and Bichette are hitting, right?
45:41Like, that would have felt like the given of it.
45:45So I'm surprised by that.
45:49Their rotation, I still think they could get to a rotation.
45:55I think they should stop screwing around and just make David Peterson the fifth starter.
45:59Okay.
45:59And stop playing the, like – oh, like, their bullpen's bad.
46:03Just make Tobias Meyers a bullpen guy, right?
46:06And try to go around with – McLean and Holmes have been really good.
46:11Just believe in Peralta that it will get better.
46:13He's been a very good major league pitcher.
46:16I'd be encouraged what I saw in Christian Scott the last time.
46:18And if David Peterson is your number five guy, allowing three or four runs in five or six innings regularly,
46:26so be it.
46:27Like, I would just be like, just live with it.
46:30Try to improve your bullpen with Meyers and hope that that is a way to kind of stabilize.
46:36Is there – it's not impossible that there's a good rotation.
46:40I think it's a good rotation.
46:41Yes.
46:42Four out of five are pretty damn good.
46:43Yes.
46:44I mean, it just – it's crazy, though, when you think about it.
46:47Like, a guy like Clay Holmes went from the Yankees, went to the Mets, became a full-time starter.
46:51He's developed into a hell of a starter, too.
46:53You might argue it's the best thing Stearns has done in his time there.
46:57Yes, you could definitely argue that.
46:58And, by the way, maybe the worst thing was giving him an opt-out after this season.
47:02He's going to make some big money if he continues to have a strong season like this.
47:06But it's fascinating you say that, that the Yankees are better.
47:08I mean, I agree with you, obviously.
47:09They feel like a better team.
47:11They play like one of the best teams in baseball.
47:14Had a bad weekend against the Brewers.
47:16They got the Orioles.
47:16I mean, I hope that's clear that that didn't come across as a shot at Juan Soto.
47:20No, not at all.
47:21No, but, like –
47:21Because what have we been talking about all about this?
47:24We've been talking about this Yankees team has built depth, real depth, Joel.
47:27And they've been able to do that because Soto's not carrying that payroll on their roster.
47:32And they could be a more complete team offensively and defensively, like especially defensively, base running, things like that, and
47:40better depth rotation-wise.
47:42Like I just think that if you offered the Mets, would you like Cody Bellinger and Max Freed for Juan
47:50Soto?
47:50They'd say yes.
47:51The Yankees would turn it down.
47:53Right?
47:53And that was the exchange.
47:55That was the financial exchange.
47:56The second Soto signed with the Mets, the Yankees, like within an hour –
48:03Yeah, they're activated right there.
48:03Within an hour were on Freed.
48:06And by the end of that thing, like they were going to go get Bellinger.
48:10Like they were going to make sure to get Bellinger.
48:12Those were the two big moves they made with the money.
48:18It's amazing when you look back at it now, and it feels like you could do this exercise almost every
48:23year, Joel,
48:23whether it's in the beginning of the season, after the season, midpoint of the season.
48:26You can evaluate, ever since that moment of Juan Soto choosing the Mets over the Yankees,
48:31how these teams have developed and built themselves into where they currently are.
48:36And you can always revisit that moment and be like, who made the right decision?
48:39Who didn't make the right decision?
48:40Well, I also don't know that it was the wrong decision for the Mets.
48:43Like Steve Cohn is willing to support much bigger payrolls, and they don't have Aaron Judge.
48:49Like the reality is, if you have Soto and Judge, and you play at Yankee Stadium,
48:56one of them is going to have to play left field or center field.
48:59And those are tough places, especially Yankee Stadium.
49:03And so the Mets, as long as – like if you could afford it, Soto's fine.
49:12Like the Mets aren't making decisions not to get something.
49:16No.
49:16Because they have Soto.
49:17The Yankees would have made decisions not to get something if they had Soto.
49:22I agree.
49:23Right?
49:23I agree.
49:24That was a – so they would have had to make either or decisions.
49:28The Mets added Soto, and they're not making either or.
49:31Well, we got Soto.
49:32Now we're not – if something else came on – like the Mets problem is,
49:37they have yet to find a way in the marketplace except by accident with Holmes to get a well above
49:44average starter.
49:46Now, will Peralta become that for the rest of the year?
49:49We'll see.
49:49But like they really – it's funny.
49:53Like I'm going to say this name, and it's going to bother Yankee fans as much as it bothers Mets
49:57fans.
49:57And the name is Frankie Montas, which was when the Mets –
50:01I could have told them that that was a bad investment.
50:03But – and I agree.
50:04And I wrote it.
50:05It is like a lot of teams have – the Brewers, who we think are a very good organization,
50:11the Brewers, the Reds, the Yankees, and Mets have all done a lot to get that player
50:17because they all thought there was this untapped top of the rotation upside there.
50:22And they were all wrong.
50:23They went 0 for 4 of those four teams.
50:25I don't know where those – was it the metrics on the fastball?
50:27Yes.
50:27Like that's really what it was?
50:28Whatever is there, there is stuff that – because I'm telling you when the Mets signed him,
50:33people I trust in the organization are like – I was like – I saw this with the Yankees,
50:37and they were like, he's going to be one of our three postseason starters.
50:41So they were very wrong about that.
50:43This past offseason, Mets people were very, very confident that Sean Benio was going to come all the way back
50:49and be like a really, really high-end three.
50:52Sure.
50:54It hasn't – it didn't happen.
50:56And so like they've been – there's been some starting pitching stuff that they've done.
51:00They haven't fixed Senga.
51:03Like Senga has had periods where he's pitched like an ace.
51:06Yes.
51:06The beginning of last season until the middle of June, he was an ace.
51:10The rookie season, especially the second half of the rookie season, he was an ace.
51:14We just haven't seen it over a full season, and he like feels really far away from ever rediscovering that.
51:20But they're going to have to try again with him if he could get healthy.
51:23They've taken – like they have not found their freed.
51:28They're not easy to find.
51:29They're very difficult to find, and it's why the best thing to do is develop McLean or Schlittman.
51:35Like that that is –
51:36McLean's awesome.
51:38He just – he's unfortunately turning into another DeGrom where he's getting no run support every start.
51:42Yeah, he's – yeah, I'll take my shot with DeGrom or McLean.
51:46No, I know.
51:47I know.
51:47You know what I'm saying, though.
51:48And try to fix the offense and not believe that there's just a curse.
51:51I would – like those two guys are going to be so much fun to watch in New York.
51:56I hope they're somehow – the calendar works and they're pitching against each other in the Subway Series.
52:00Cam Schlillers, so good.
52:02Like that would be great New York night.
52:04How many more starts –
52:05Of course, the way that things go with baseball right now will surely be like game six of the Eastern
52:10Finals.
52:10Yeah, I mean it's – I mean that's coming this weekend, so it'll probably game one of the Eastern Conference
52:14Finals, one of the Subway Series.
52:16How many more starts for you from Schlittler do you need to see before you tell me, Ryan, this guy
52:20is like –
52:22Oh, no, he's special.
52:23Okay.
52:24Now, again, like –
52:25Besides the health thing.
52:26I know that's always a stipulation.
52:28If he doesn't have a health issue, I would – again, I always leave a 5% or 10%
52:34window open.
52:35Sure.
52:35But that's all it is.
52:37Yeah.
52:37Like there's 90% certainty because it's not just the stuff which is off the charts and that he keeps
52:44coming in.
52:44But he is super confident and he's learned how to dominate in the strike zone.
52:51He doesn't walk anymore, Joel.
52:53I was about to say, as you could tell from my relief pitcher thing and when you asked me about
52:57singles with the Yankees and I – I really hate walks.
53:02Like I like them on offense and I hate them on defense.
53:06I just like – I could tolerate a triple to the gap.
53:10Like make – I just like – I'm so much – you've got to make the other team win the
53:14game.
53:15Don't lose the game.
53:16Make the other team win the game.
53:18And this version of Schlittler is just – it is a little like DeGrom in that sense of it's this
53:29high-octane fastball and here it is.
53:33Good luck.
53:34Yeah.
53:34And he's kind of built like DeGrom, 6'5"-ish and attitude.
53:41Like the stuff he's done with Boston, again, it's not my total cup of tea.
53:45Like not everything is for the old guy.
53:48But like he ain't afraid.
53:50No, he's not.
53:51You know?
53:51And he can back it up.
53:53And so, yeah, it's – him and McLean are like to me like near one and two of the best
54:04things in New York baseball right now because it's new.
54:06It's fresh.
54:07It's so interesting.
54:08And you could see pathways for them.
54:11Like here's the thing.
54:13If they were starting against each other in the All-Star game, would you be surprised?
54:16No.
54:17No.
54:17Like they're that good.
54:19They're going to be on the short list.
54:20Like would you be surprised?
54:21Like we probably get to the All-Star game and say here's the five guys who should probably start for
54:25the NL.
54:26Here's the five guys who should start for the AL.
54:28So it's like a flip of the coin is probably be Paul Skeens if he was available because he's got
54:33a reputation.
54:34He's done it a few times.
54:34But like I feel like we're going to get to July 1st when we start talking about these things.
54:40And without injury, McLean's going to be one of the five guys we'd consider to start the All-Star game
54:45for the National League.
54:46And Schlittler's going to be one of the five guys we'd consider.
54:48Schlittler's got to be one right now.
54:49I mean he's –
54:50If Scooble's hurt, you know, which he is.
54:52Yeah.
54:53And yeah, I mean there's other guys pitching well.
54:56But like you're not going to get – you're going to have just these fingers to count on the guys
55:01you would consider above him.
55:04And with the rest of – the game's in Philly.
55:07Is Philly going to like two New York guys starting against each other?
55:10Especially after like all the fans invaded their arena to watch the Knicks knock them out and sweep them?
55:17Yeah, I don't think Philly has much to say now anymore considering what happened to them against the Knicks.
55:22When does Eagles minicamp open?
55:24Joel Sherman, I appreciate you hopping in the studio with us and doing another episode of Pinstripe.
55:28We're looking forward to your coverage.
55:29And we'll catch up with you next week, man.
55:31Thanks, Ryan.
55:31And thanks, everyone, for watching.
55:32Pinstripe.
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