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Outnumbered 10/4/25 FULL END SHOW | ᗷᖇEᗩKIᑎG ᑎEᗯS Tᖇᑌᗰᑭ October 4, 2025
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00:01Well, the man accused of assassinating Charlie Kirk is bringing in some high-profile names
00:06to bolster his legal team, while Utah prosecutors begin building their case for the death penalty.
00:12Hello, everyone.
00:13This is Outnumbered.
00:14I'm Emily Campagno here with my co-host, Harris Faulkner, and also joining us today, Cheryl
00:20Cassoni, host of American Dream Home on Fox Business, Kennedy, host of the Kennedy Saves
00:25the World podcast, and for the first time on the couch, we welcome Joshua Ritter, criminal
00:31defense attorney and Fox News contributor.
00:34Well, one of Tyler Robinson's new lawyers is Michael Burt, a defense attorney with almost
00:3850 years of experience who defended one of the Menendez brothers in 1993.
00:44Meanwhile, Fox News Digital gained access to the rooftop at Utah Valley University, where
00:49police believe the alleged assassin took his deadly shot.
00:53The roof is now fitted with barriers and security cameras, but on September 10th, the day Charlie
01:00Kirk was murdered, security experts say the shooter could have easily accessed the roof
01:05almost undetected.
01:07They note that there were no security gates blocking ladders that led up to the roof.
01:13So all of this, Joshua, sort of dovetailing in with now what we expect to be the defense
01:18team's case.
01:19Talk to us about what it means to bring in now this sort of high-profile, long-time
01:24litigator and what it looks like for the defendant moving forward.
01:29They're thinking about this case heading to trial.
01:31I mean, first and foremost, I don't think that there is a pathway for this case settling,
01:37quite honestly.
01:38I mean, we're talking about the death penalty.
01:40The state would have to take the death penalty off the table to be in any kind of discussion
01:45about settling this case.
01:46So I think they have to, and I think rightfully so, think about we have to prepare for trial.
01:51Let's bring in trial counsel, experienced trial counsel, trial counsel that's handled
01:56a case that's been high-profile, trial counsel that's handled a case that's been subject to
02:01the death penalty.
02:02The other way that they're looking at attacking this, as it were, is with the death penalty.
02:07How can they legally challenge that?
02:09What obstacles can they present for the prosecution as far as the charges that they bring, aggravated
02:15murder, challenging that so that perhaps the death penalty isn't on the table?
02:19But I think at all times, through all of this pre-trial litigation, they're thinking about
02:24one day we will probably be ending up in court in front of 12 people.
02:27Not to be crass, but the fact that that attorney defended one of the Menendez brothers in 93,
02:32we know how that turned out.
02:34So I'm curious, in terms of this acquisition for the team, how exactly does that bode confidence
02:38for the defendant?
02:41Well, he was on the team that got a hung trial.
02:44So at least I think they're thinking to themselves that he's seen some success.
02:48Also, I think they're thinking this is a case where, in Menendez, like in this case, it's
02:54not so much about who did it, right?
02:56We're not getting into the facts of whether or not this crime was committed.
03:00It's more of what is it?
03:02And that's what the question was in Menendez.
03:04They tried to bring in some creative mitigating arguments in Menendez, right?
03:10And I think that's the same thing they might be attempting here, is perhaps if they're
03:14heading to trial, how do we help jurors understand why there might be reasons to not put this
03:21man in the death chamber?
03:22Yeah.
03:22That's why you are the legal eagle today.
03:24And Cheryl, I want to play for you a little bit of the commentary that the judge made during
03:28that highly publicized hearing, this message for the attorneys on both sides.
03:33Let's watch.
03:35Counsel, regardless of who is watching, whether it is the nation or a single individual, we
03:42must fulfill our roles with integrity, civility, and diligence.
03:47I encourage each of you to give your very best to this case.
03:50Neither Mr. Robinson nor the people of Utah deserve anything less than the fair and impartial
03:58administration of justice.
04:00Cheryl, I think that sort of underscores what Joshua's been saying, which is that it's a
04:04noble endeavor, regardless of whether we think we know or know about guilt or innocence,
04:09to represent these individuals, that the sort of criminal justice system is higher than
04:13one person, and therefore they're going to give it their best no matter what.
04:16So innocent, proven guilty.
04:18But at the same time, when I look and listen to that judge just now, my heart hurts because
04:24every time we do one of these high-profile cases and it goes to the court, especially
04:29if there's cameras in the court and there's reporters outside, the family has to relive
04:34the events.
04:35And I keep thinking about Erica Kirk and the kids and everybody that loved Charlie and how
04:40if this is the way that we're going, and it sounds like what you're saying, this is where
04:43we're going to go, that we're all going to have to relive this, but in particular, the
04:48family.
04:48I have to say one thing, though.
04:49I was reading this.
04:50Time magazine said this about her, about Erica Kirk just yesterday.
04:54I said, few would have faulted Erica Kirk if she had stood before tens of thousands at
04:58her husband's memorial and demanded retribution.
05:01She did not.
05:02She chose forgiveness.
05:03But I can't imagine being her if this does go to court.
05:06Yeah.
05:07And so let's sort of dive into that, Kennedy, because I think, frankly, the nation, I don't
05:10want to speak for the whole nation, but a lot of the nation was shocked as we saw the
05:14result of the Koberger non-trial, which was indeed an acceptance of the plea.
05:18We know that not all the victims' families supported that decision.
05:22We also know here that the state is the entity that is being represented.
05:26It is not Charlie Kirk's widow.
05:27It is not Charlie Kirk's estate.
05:29So in that representation, we might see here something as we potentially saw when the parents
05:36of the defendant brought him into the sheriffs and turning them in, saying, my biggest fear
05:40was him dying in a shootout.
05:42So at the end of the day, if protecting his life is the most important thing, perhaps this
05:46trial might be averted in addition to reliving that nightmare for the loved ones.
05:50Yes.
05:51And it was interesting because I was thinking about the Koberger case as Josh Ritter was
05:56talking about this, because you had one of the families who didn't want it to go to
06:01trial, and they didn't want to, to Cheryl's point, to relive the trauma of their daughter
06:07being murdered and ripped away from them.
06:09But at the same time, we need justice in this country.
06:13We need for this question to be settled morally and spiritually, but also we have to disincentivize
06:23the political violence that is an epidemic, it feels like.
06:28And this murder was so different than anything that we have experienced in this political
06:35circus that we're in right now.
06:37And as a Christian, as an Eastern Orthodox Christian, and as a libertarian, I am against
06:44the death penalty.
06:45I don't think that the state should be putting people to death.
06:49The part of me that is overcome by sadness and anxiety and emotion wants retribution, like
06:56wants vengeance against this individual.
06:59And that's why the judge's words are so important, because the lawyers on both sides, they have
07:06to rise above the sides of us as a society that are warring against each other and, you
07:12know, truly bring justice here.
07:14What does that look like right now?
07:16I don't know, but it wouldn't feel right if there were a plea and if we were, if we had
07:24a trial taken away from us in a moment where we need so many of these questions answered
07:29and we need some form of resolution.
07:31And what it looks like now in terms of preparing for the potential inevitability of trial, Harris,
07:38we can put on the full screen and show everyone what the defense's team looks like for the
07:44defendant and sort of showcasing a rather lengthy and pretty impressive experience.
07:52As Josh took us through earlier, they're certainly bolstering up the ranks to ensure this defendant
07:57is given that fair try.
07:58Yeah, it worked on 20 plus capital cases.
08:00That stands out to me with Richard Novak, the co-counsel.
08:03I mean, that's what this has been since the get-go.
08:06The governor of Utah has said from the very moment, Governor Cox has said, you know, that
08:11that would be where they would reach, would be the death penalty.
08:14So that, that's something that really stands out.
08:17Tried death penalty cases in five different states, Michael Burke, co-counsel.
08:21So yeah, they, they are, it seems to me, Josh, that they are more geared up for what happens
08:26to keep him alive after this whole process.
08:29And maybe that's a plea.
08:30I'm not really sure.
08:31I do want to ask you this though.
08:32So we reported last week when, when, um, the prosecution announced how much discovery
08:38could be possible because they have so much evidence when you see them bringing on, you
08:43know, bigger guns, if you will, in terms of legal power and legal might, what do you make
08:49of the extra time it takes to go through all of that evidence?
08:53That's like a window to find more mistakes now with the best of the best looking for them.
08:58Yeah.
08:58I think we all need to prepare that this is going to take a while.
09:01It really is.
09:02I mean, you heard the prosecutor to your point in court say there's a voluminous amount of
09:07discovery and we're still early on.
09:09They, they still have to go through cell phones, uh, computers, everything that they've seized,
09:13his discord.
09:15I mean, it's going to start to continue to add up to the amount of discovery that's going
09:20to be turned over.
09:21And then it is a death penalty case.
09:23So every time they turn to the judge and say, your honor, we need more time to go through
09:27all of this, a judge is going to defer to them because realizing the state is trying
09:31to give him the greatest punishment there is.
09:32But there are porous opportunities and all of that evidence too, right?
09:37Oh yeah, absolutely.
09:38I mean, they, I, I listen, I think they're trying to fight the death penalty.
09:42I think they, they see this as intending to save their clients.
09:45That's what those resumes tell me.
09:46Right.
09:47But that doesn't mean that they're not going to, they're going to roll over at trial.
09:50I mean, if they can go through this evidence and find something to make an argument out
09:54of, I think they absolutely will.
09:56But in my view, this case, if it were assigned to me, I would be viewing this as trying to
10:01save my client's life.
10:03Yeah.
10:03Well, onto another lawsuit, a volleyball coach was fired after filing a complaint about a
10:10transgender player on the team and to everyone.
10:13And it was against everything I, I, um, believe in.
10:18I had to do a lot of, um, prayer.
10:20That was Melissa Batty-Smoos, a former San Jose State University volleyball coach who
10:28is now suing the school saying she was fired for raising concerns about a transgender athlete
10:33on the team.
10:35That athlete, Blair Fleming was at the center of a scandal last year that saw some teams
10:40forfeit games against San Jose State.
10:43Batty-Smoos says she was fired after filing a title nine complaint in which she alleged the
10:49university had showed favoritism toward Fleming and withheld knowledge about the player's
10:54birth gender.
10:55Watch this.
10:56Who would ever guess this, that I would have to, um, in my 30 years career have to, you
11:03know, take on something like this.
11:04And I was like, something's wrong with this picture.
11:06Oh, by the way, Blair is, you know, trans.
11:10Both Todd Kress and, um, the administration, Laura Alexandra, was not allowed to, um, talk
11:21about that, allow parents to know or anyone to know.
11:25The same thing that they were doing to the athletes, they were doing to me, um, threatening
11:29me to fire me.
11:31The lawsuit was filed against the California State University Board of Trustees, which
11:36oversees San Jose State.
11:37It reads in part this way, the school's actions of suspending and terminating Batty-Smoos were
11:43not based on her job performance, but were in direct retaliation for her opposition to
11:48sex discrimination and her advocacy for the fairness and equal access to programs, services
11:54and activities for female athletes, end of quote.
11:57We have now reached out to San Jose State for any comment.
12:00We have yet to hear back.
12:02So it was interesting while that was playing out, you made the comment.
12:05But this is where most of the country is now, on her side.
12:09Things are different than they were a few months ago as well because of what the president
12:12has done by executive order.
12:14Yes, uh, newsflash, everybody.
12:16February 5th, the Keeping Men Out of Women's Sports executive order was signed by President
12:21Trump.
12:21And something happened over the summer, very quietly.
12:25The U.S.
12:26Olympic and Paralympic Committee changed the eligibility rules.
12:29They are now, for the Olympics, coming up.
12:31Men cannot be on, biological men cannot play in sports against female athletes.
12:38Remember the controversy we talked about on this program with the boxers, that they quietly
12:44changed that small little paragraph in their decision making.
12:47Things are changing.
12:48Things are shifting.
12:49And I hope somebody out there offers a new position.
12:52She seems wonderful.
12:54So if the landscape changes, what does that do to her lawsuit against San Jose State?
12:57Can she win?
12:58I think absolutely.
13:01I mean, the whole thing is arising out of this idea of what is Title IX for?
13:06What is it supposed to be protecting against?
13:08It was designed to protect women.
13:10It was designed to make sure that women weren't discriminated against, particularly in sports,
13:16but it's not entirely drafted, directed at sports.
13:20But I think if the view of the administration is taking a change in the way that it views that,
13:25it will absolutely affect that lawsuit.
13:27You know, I'm a father of three little girls, five, three, and one.
13:32So you're outnumbered.
13:33I am outnumbered.
13:34I live outnumbered.
13:36I'm blessed.
13:37I love them.
13:38They're little.
13:39They haven't entered sports yet.
13:40But I think about these things, and it's not even so much thinking about them from,
13:44oh, what will Title IX mean?
13:46What will it stand for?
13:47But just from a safety perspective, I'm thinking, would I want them playing sports?
13:52Some of these are in contact, but they still involve a certain amount of physicality that
13:57could affect their safety.
13:58And that's something I think needs to be worked out in addition to the legal issues.
14:03I love where you just took us.
14:05Kennedy, what about the athletes?
14:07Like, you're playing against San Jose State, and you forfeit because of some of these very,
14:11you know, very salient issues of injury potential, so on and so forth.
14:15Or maybe it's based on principle.
14:17They don't get that time back.
14:18They don't get their young sports careers back to redo those games.
14:23Yeah, especially when they're also subject to the same kind of retaliation that this
14:26coach has been.
14:28And there are some very real ramifications here.
14:31You know, there are people who, and the argument has turned the tide against them, but there
14:37are people who are still arguing that trans athletes should be able to play in women's leagues.
14:43And it's not fair, unless you're going to completely scrap Title IX and allow women to use
14:49performance-enhancing drugs, including testosterone, so they can, you know, try and do whatever
14:54they can to level the biological playing field, then someone has to grow a spine, as the IOC
15:01eventually did, in order to protect women.
15:06That is not a bad thing.
15:07And it's actually, trying to capitulate has made things so much more divisive and unsafe.
15:15And, you know, it's like, I'm not a lawyer yet.
15:17But I think she does have a case here.
15:22And I think anyone who has lost their careers, lost scholarships, lost places on the podium,
15:27they do as well.
15:29And these schools realize that this administration is being far more aggressive than any other
15:34past administration.
15:36And that's why you're seeing places like Harvard and Columbia and eventually UCLA all fall in
15:41line, because they know those sweet, sweet federal dollars will be withheld if they continue
15:46to FAFO.
15:48You know, I was just thinking, though, no matter what we as women would do, being a linebacker
15:52in the NFL, there are not enough hormones to get to be 350 pounds at six foot seven like
15:58that.
15:59I mean, it's always going to be we're different.
16:01Yeah.
16:04So digging into the legal stuff here for a second, I think it's important.
16:07I want listeners to understand that non renewing a contract can still be retaliation.
16:11I think she's a strong case.
16:12I think she's going to win.
16:13And I think what's really interesting is that her original complaint to begin with, guys,
16:16sort of represented a lot more than just some type of HR action or on behalf of just
16:21one coach, because the chilling effect was really huge here.
16:24And as we talk about the culture, you know, and sort of the overgeneralized statement about,
16:27you know, that we're losing scholarships.
16:29Yes.
16:29But there was a massive culture where coaches were instructed and other athletes were instructed.
16:35Don't talk to this person.
16:36Don't talk to their parents.
16:37Don't mention it at all.
16:38Don't even bring it up.
16:39And so part of this is woven into the fabric of her now two lawsuits, which state that because
16:44of that, you're totally infringing on my ability to advocate for these actual girls for themselves.
16:50And there was a climate of fear.
16:52And I think the retroactive nature of these decisions is so unfortunate because there's no way
16:57that they can restore those lost opportunities.
17:00But I think that the main thing, too, was that for a lot of years now,
17:04particularly under the Biden administration's reign, a lot of people lived, as she just was
17:09describing there, physical sickness under threat of termination or being kicked off the team or
17:15discipline or retaliation socially, by the way, online as well for these young girls that were
17:20shunned in many different ways, kicked off the team, et cetera, including suspensions from school
17:25for daring to speak up for themselves.
17:27So I hope this is a seminal case and reminder that the injunctive relief she is requesting
17:31sort of tests the limits of Title IX.
17:33I know this president cares deeply about it and has laid down the law in that way, but
17:37hopefully the Ninth Circuit might catch up to 2025.
17:41All right, we'll move on.
17:41Democrats need a reset on education.
17:44That is the battle cry from Rahm Emanuel.
17:47Why, he says, until our children start learning, no one should get a good night's sleep.
17:52We'll dig into that.
17:53Former Obama aide and ex-Democrat mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emanuel, is warning his own political party that
18:03it needs to reset on education instead of sticking with social issues.
18:08He wrote an op-ed in The Wall Street Journal.
18:10And here's part of it.
18:11We spent the last five years debating pronouns without noticing that too many students can't
18:17tell you what a pronoun is.
18:19The U.S. has been focused more on whether a school is named for Abraham Lincoln than
18:25whether students can tell you why he is an American giant.
18:28We've become so obsessed with bathroom access that we've ignored classroom excellence.
18:34America has lost the plot.
18:36Democrats need to refocus on the fundamentals in the elementary years when it comes to high
18:41school.
18:41We need to be pursuing fundamental reform.
18:44Kennedy, I mean, that is a blueprint for what leadership could look like on the left.
18:51But will they listen?
18:52No, they're going to have to.
18:52And I think he will be cannibalized by the progressives in his party for saying what needs
18:58to be said.
18:59And there are a lot of parents who are not political who look at that statement and say,
19:03thank you.
19:05You know, why have I been completely kept out of my kids' school system?
19:10I can't help them with homework.
19:11You don't give me the right examples.
19:13I don't have access to teachers and to administration.
19:16And you guys have been creating this alternate universe where, you know, kids don't know what's
19:21going on because they're illiterate.
19:23So I'm happy that he's very, very, very late to a party that we have been throwing for the
19:30better part of two decades.
19:32But there's a seat at the table for any rationalist who wants to sit down and dine on commitment
19:40to excellence because we are falling behind.
19:43Wow.
19:43For a second there, I thought you meant a call out to end the shutdown by Democrats.
19:47But no, different topic.
19:48Same thing needed.
19:50Yes.
19:51You were nodding the whole time she was talking.
19:53Exactly.
19:54The progressives are going to take a moderate Democratic voice like Rahm Emanuel, who lays
19:59out all the reasons why the party is misguided and why kids have suffered because of their
20:03policies, especially during the pandemic, to your point.
20:06I mean, let me give you one example.
20:07This is where we're at right now as a nation and how we're trying to fix education.
20:11In Washington, D.C., here's their new proposal, and they're doing a new study on it to see if
20:15it's going to work.
20:16Give kids 50 bucks a week if they show up to class, $50 a week to seniors just to show
20:23up.
20:24That's the plan.
20:24Hand out money.
20:25That's we're supposed to bribe kids now to get an education.
20:29I mean, look, we all of us went and I didn't get paid and maybe somebody else on the couch
20:33did.
20:33But if you look at chronic absenteeism and just in D.C.
20:37public schools, 39.5 percent truancy, 32.6 percent.
20:42This is where we're at right now.
20:44And I'm sorry, but the Democrats can take a lot of blame because they're the ones that
20:47were so empowered to shut down schools.
20:49And then they got busted on Zoom calls because the principals and the teachers were insulting
20:53parents and saying that it was their school.
20:55The parents needed to just sit down.
20:58I'm done.
20:59Well, and then it kind of tips me, Emily, you gave a data point a few weeks ago about
21:03how much the student unions, but those teachers unions make all that money and how much of
21:08it does not trickle down into the classroom.
21:10So obviously now they can pay kids.
21:12They've got so much extra money.
21:13Yeah, that bureaucratic bloat.
21:15I'm grateful that you quoted Al Davis in your talking points just then.
21:19Commitment to excellence.
21:20I'm waiting for it, guys.
21:21Hang in there.
21:22Look, I think the story here, which is so sad, is that the Democrats will frame this as,
21:28oh, Rahm Emanuel is trying to insert himself into the upcoming presidential race, right?
21:33But the reality is now we've learned that literally less than three out of 10 high schoolers
21:38can even read.
21:39And that's the lowest score in all formats since the late 80s, early 90s.
21:44So you're telling us that over 35 years later, we have now backtracked in time.
21:50Rahm Emanuel is coming out.
21:51He's been weighing in on issues with this common sense POV for now quite some time.
21:54But I'm noticing that the Wall Street Journal and Harvard and these certain polls that are
21:59going out and they're asking Democrats who they want to vote for as they see ahead to
22:03the presidential election.
22:04Well, his name's not on there.
22:05And people still aren't sort of noticing him or taking him seriously.
22:10So I agree with you that there's the most room at the party is for any rational thinker.
22:15But we saw how Fetterman got cannibalized and excommunicated.
22:18We see what happens, the backlash, especially online.
22:21So bravo to Rahm for having common sense and being non-antisemitic for once in that party.
22:27But I'm worried for him that that voice will be drowned out by these libs on the left.
22:32Although maybe I shouldn't be worried.
22:33You know, maybe we shouldn't be helping them out.
22:34Go ahead.
22:34Keep burning yourselves down.
22:35With an even bigger microphone, you have the Senate minority leader right now, Chuck Schumer,
22:40caught in a sticky wicket because the far left is out shouting him.
22:44I don't think it'll be different for Rahm Emanuel.
22:46Great point.
22:47Josh.
22:47Yeah, it's sad that that is true, right?
22:51That for saying something that as you were reading the quote, I was thinking to myself,
22:56what if I didn't know who said that?
22:59What if I didn't know where that quote came from?
23:01Could I identify the speaker or could I identify the party of the speaker?
23:05I don't think you could because to Kennedy's point, it just makes sense to just about everyone.
23:11It certainly makes sense to parents who are thinking about, I'm putting my kid in school.
23:16I want them coming back, being able to read, being able to do math, being able to tell
23:20me some basic things about history.
23:22But instead, the focus is on exactly what he said.
23:25And that's where we're getting lost.
23:27Yeah.
23:28All right.
23:29We'll move on.
23:29Chilling new 9-1-1 calls.
23:32We now can hear them.
23:33And the gruesome stabbing of a young woman who came to the U.S. to escape the war in Ukraine.
23:39The emotional pleas by that.
23:42Charlotte police release audio from the haunting 9-1-1 calls made after the deadly train stabbing
23:48of Ukrainian refugee Irina Zerutska.
23:51We warn that the audio may be very disturbing for some viewers.
23:55We're on a plane, this man just f***ing stabbed this woman for no reason.
24:01I was dead right, Mr. Thomas.
24:03You said a male stabbed someone for no reason?
24:05Do they need medical?
24:06Yeah, it's on a train.
24:07Yeah, f***ing, she's bleeding.
24:09She's bleeding.
24:10I think she's dead, man.
24:12I think the girl might be dead, man.
24:14The fire truck has got here, but there's no police presence.
24:16And the guy that did it is standing over here on the ramp.
24:19There's a lot of people around her.
24:20They're all saying that she's shot.
24:22The suspect in the killing is facing several charges, including first-degree murder.
24:29Now, this person has a lengthy rap sheet, 13 prior convictions.
24:34What you're seeing here is the mugshots for all of them.
24:36And his mother describes him as a paranoid schizophrenic who grew increasingly violent over the years.
24:43He was out on cashless bail at the time of that horrific murder.
24:49Josh, your thoughts on this horror?
24:52I mean, you talk about tragedies.
24:56We've all seen that videotape.
24:58And the part that gets me the most is obviously the violence.
25:02But then seeing her after, crying, alone, scared, realizing she's—or maybe not even realizing, but just scared.
25:11And she's taking her last breaths.
25:14Compound that with the frustration and anger you start to feel when you realize that this person had been a part of the system.
25:22That they had how many—a dozen or more chances to do something about this in the system to prevent this from happening and that they didn't.
25:29This is not a question, in my view, about being hard on crime, soft on crime, realizing mental health issues or what have you.
25:38You've been in and out of the system that many times, including violent offenses.
25:42There should be an end to it.
25:44And you shouldn't be walking the street where you have a knife that you can randomly stab someone.
25:50And we know the judge has requested all the medical records.
25:52The defense team says, yes, we're going to give it to you.
25:54He says, the judge said, we need to have these in order to properly administrate justice.
25:59Why now?
26:00Why now?
26:00So it took someone sacrificing a life to get to the point where justice can be administrated.
26:05There's no justice in that.
26:07You know, Emily, I get some of my best legal advice, no offense, from Emily.
26:12That I get from Josh.
26:14And I'm just going to ask you.
26:17Does the Justice Department have a way to look back at those cases from, like, a higher view than rather jumping into this?
26:25But start to maybe build a case for changing laws in this country and build a case for what we're going to do with the mentally ill.
26:31Because it seems like society can't do it from a social work or a social construct.
26:37We need to do it almost from, I don't know, on high legally.
26:42I'm just not sure.
26:43What can happen?
26:44It's such a great question.
26:45Because right now in Charlotte, they're having field hearings on these victim rights.
26:49So legislatively, and that's what we see.
26:51We see the anguish, and we just had them on the hill, actually, the anguish of these mothers and fathers that have lost their children in these horrific, preventable ways.
27:00Whether it's by illegal aliens, whether it's by recidivists who are out skipping down the street terrorizing everyone.
27:06Every single death is a loss that is priceless, and it was preventable.
27:11And so we are seeing this sort of modicum attempt to rectify these situations.
27:16But the lives have been lost.
27:17And I think, Cheryl, we've talked a lot about on this couch the inaction of people that are shown in these horrific things that unfold on screen.
27:26We saw what happened to Daniel Penny when he was punished until he was exonerated for stepping in and saving the lives of the subway car.
27:34And this one in particular, those people weren't doing anything.
27:37I feel heartened to know that someone did call 911.
27:39It obviously wasn't the woman that was sitting next to the arena who died.
27:45But also, everyone there is afraid for their life, too.
27:47There's no clear answer here.
27:49Well, and I watched the video as well, Josh, like you did.
27:52And I only watched it once.
27:54But yes.
27:55And in fact, the man that was behind her, not the alleged assailant, but another man just walked forward and kept walking.
28:02And just as she was collapsing.
28:04And that broke my heart because the last thing that I saw her do was reach for her phone.
28:09And I knew that she was trying to call her family and to get help.
28:13It was it was horrible.
28:14And but that's the way that we operate now because of Daniel Penny.
28:18When you're on any mass transit, whether it's a bus or a train, and I'm on all these as well, because I live here in New York City in Manhattan.
28:25I don't have a car.
28:26You don't make eye contact.
28:27You look away and you try to just not get involved and knowing that you there are threats out there, constant threats.
28:35And it was I know it was late at night, but something's got to change.
28:40And I have to say, Josh, I understand that maybe we need to have another conversation.
28:44Mine is, is that politicians and have got to change the laws.
28:48You've got to change the laws in the books has to be changed here in New York City.
28:51It has to come from Albany, has to come from Kathy Hogle.
28:53We cannot keep seeing these videos and covering these stories.
28:57Enough is enough.
28:58But these judges that are letting these recidivist criminals out over and over and over, they're following what is on the books.
29:05That's the state legislature.
29:07Thank you, Donald Trump, for trying to clean up crime in these cities.
29:10But the laws have to change.
29:12Kennedy, you and I live here, too, like with Cheryl.
29:14And I told you the other day I got one of my million weapons that I carry around confiscated at the barricade of the U.N.
29:21The cop gave it back to me after I came back out.
29:23And he said, hey, listen, you know, this is which weapon.
29:26I'll tell you a commercial.
29:27And he said, look, this isn't legal here in New York.
29:29I just have to tell you.
29:30But I'm giving it back to you.
29:31And I said, yeah, because I'd rather the headline be that I was ticketed for having this on me than the headline be that I was murdered because I didn't have a weapon.
29:40And all of us are like that.
29:42I mean, their box was filled with pepper sprays and things that aren't legal in New York.
29:46But somehow the perps have all the power here.
29:49Yeah.
29:49And it's it's from women like us who take mass transit, you know, who ride the train every day at least once a week.
29:56There is an unstable, unwell person on the train who causes everyone in the car fear and anxiety because, Harris, you know, you said this earlier.
30:05We don't know that there's going to be a Daniel Penny on the train.
30:08Exactly.
30:08You know, it's like you don't want to make eye contact.
30:11You don't want to agitate someone who's already gone over the edge.
30:13But the thing that's so heartbreaking about this, that was not a mystery.
30:17This is not something that happens spontaneously when you've got family members.
30:21And that's the connection between this and Charlie Kirk's murder.
30:25You had mothers saying, you know, this person is sick.
30:30Tyler Robinson's mom and dad turned him in knowing what his fate could be because they knew something was deeply wrong.
30:38So they shouldn't be the only ones who are looking at this going, please, can can they get help?
30:43Can you take them out of society?
30:46And, you know, judges and prosecutors and social workers and mental health experts, they have to have more power, even if it's a case by case basis, to administer justice before the unspeakable tragedies like this happen.
31:01Yeah, because after COVID and the ridiculous laws that were changed here, they removed judicial discretion.
31:06Yes.
31:06So in certain venues and jurisdictions, that's what I'm talking about.
31:09That's got to come from on high.
31:10And I was just thinking, again, I'll I'll ask you this time, Josh, from a federal level, once it gets to be so egregious, once you've got an individual that's been in and out of the system, can we put a limit on that and then have the feds look at it?
31:23I guess that's what I'm looking at.
31:24Well, that was three strikes, you're out in California, right?
31:26Exactly.
31:27And now the libs are trying to erase that, too.
31:28It's like 50 strikes, you're out.
31:29Yeah.
31:30I mean, the answer is you can do it, but who's got the who's got the bravery, the willpower to go ahead and do it?
31:37Yeah.
31:37You have to do it not in response to some tragedy.
31:41You have to be brave enough to do it in times in between the tragedies.
31:44Exactly.
31:45Instead of that creep.
31:46Yeah.
31:47Yeah.
31:47Yeah.
31:47All right, guys.
31:48Well, top Trump admin health officials share vision for HHS to make America healthy again.
32:00Special reports spoke with officials from the FDA, NIH and CMS.
32:05Four top Trump administration officials from the United States Department of Health and Human Services, HHS,
32:14shared their visions for improving the American health care system and aligning the agency with the Make America Healthy Again,
32:22MHA platform in an exclusive interview Thursday on Special Reports.
32:28HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services Administration.
32:39Dr. Mehet Oz, Food and Drug Administration, FDA, Commissioner Dr. Marty Macri,
32:45and National Institutes of Health Director Dr. J. sat down with Fox News Chief Political Anchor Brett Baer at the Hubert H. Humphrey Building in Washington, D.C.
32:57for a wide-ranging discussion on the future of health care and improving the quality of care nationwide.
33:03We all share a vision that's been a lifelong vision of all of us, which is to make our country healthy, to have evidence-based science,
33:13to have gold-standard, replicable science, and then use that to challenge what we have.
33:19This kind of bedrock system that is destroying our health, said Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
33:26The health care system in this country is a bundle of perverse incentives that force people to do the wrong thing.
33:35And we've turned this country into a sick care system rather than a health care system.
33:40And all these people are going to...
33:43Sorry.
33:44And all these people are the people who are going to change that.
33:58Dr. Macri and Oz said their goals at their respective agencies are to improve the health and longevity of the American people,
34:08focus on cures and meaningful treatment, and improve the quality of care on all levels.
34:13We're laser-focused on the broader picture, the more holistic picture, said Dr. Oz,
34:20quoting Hubert Humphrey, a former Democratic vice president, whose name is on the building they work in.
34:28Here, Humphrey said, it's the moral obligation of the government to take care of those of us at the very dawn of our lives,
34:36children at the twilight of our lives, the elderly and those living in the shadows.
34:40That's our focus.
34:43Bayer then turned to the recent HHS leadership changes critical to advancing the MAHA agenda,
34:52asking RFK Jr. about the U.S. Surgeon General nomination change.
34:57President Donald Trump pulled Dr. Jeanette's nomination from U.S. Surgeon General Wednesday
35:04ahead of Senate confirmation hearing.
35:06Neshwat, a former Fox News medical contributor, had her nomination withdrawn due to scrutiny over her credentials
35:17and criticism about her medical views not aligning with the White House.
35:22Trump announced wellness influencer Casey Means would replace Neshwat, who will work at HHS in another capacity.
35:33Casey Means, we felt, was the best person to really bring the vision of MAHA to the American public.
35:41RFK Jr. told this special report.
35:44She has a uniquely unique capacity to articulate it.
35:48She's written a book that really mobilised,
35:50gavondalised the moment.
35:52She is an extraordinary.
35:54She is excellent in everything that she's ever endeavoured.
35:57The former 2024 independent presidential candidate dismissed criticism of Means,
36:04who reportedly did not finish her medical residency nor possess an active medical licence.
36:11She was the top, the very top of her medical class at Stanford.
36:15She is in every, during her residency, she won every award that she could win, said RFK Jr.
36:22She walked away from traditional medicine because she was not curing patients.
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