- 6 months ago
Nailah Huda speaks with Prof. Dr. Salim T. P. Daniels and Assoc. Prof. Dr. Roy Anthony Rogers about Israel-Palestinian solidarity at UNGA 80 and the US 20-point plan for Gaza.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00This is Awani Global with me Naila Huda and on this week's episode of Awani Global we want to
00:12first look at the United Nations 80th General Assembly or UNGA which just took place last week
00:18marked by a general mood of frustration and disappointment over protracted conflicts from
00:24Ukraine to Gaza and while efforts to put an end to these conflicts may have fallen flat what did
00:31get a lot of attention were the delegates walking out of the hall in protest as the Israeli leader
00:36Netanyahu made his address and this comes at a time of the growing wave of recognition of the
00:42Palestinian state by more and more western countries as of late and of course the global
00:48sumut flotilla which at the time of recording as of today on Wednesday is nearing dangerous waters
00:54and is recently joined by military warships sent by Spain Italy and Turkey but we want to discuss
01:01how consequential these events are and whether these events would amount to real much needed change in
01:09bringing immediate relief to civilians in Gaza and ultimately put an end to the genocide and so to
01:15unpack some of these key questions we have joining us in the studio Professor Salim T.P. Daniels
01:20Professor of Anthropology from Hofstra University of the United States and a more familiar face to
01:26Astro Awani of course Associate Professor Dr. Roy Anthony Rogers Head Department of International and
01:31Strategic Studies of the Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences of University Malaya thank you so much
01:37Professor Salim and Prof. Roy for joining us today on Awani Global if it's all right I'd like to start with
01:44you Dr. Roy if we look at the United Nations General Assembly and just the overall perception
01:49of the UN right now we're hearing a lot from critics saying that UN is facing this crisis of confidence
01:57with issues of funding mistrust from major powers issues of reforms and what we're seeing with the General
02:04General Assembly do you think there's there's much change there's much change or there's much efforts
02:09to address these concerns and do you think the UN is still fit for purpose all right firstly let me
02:16express my sincere thanks to Astro Awani for the kind invitation yes no doubt that the United Nations
02:23having been in existence for eight decades since 1945 till now there are a lot of frustrations
02:32especially pertaining on issues related to I may term high politics or security issues obviously the
02:41Security Council you know very much being influenced by the veto powers and these veto powers they have used
02:49their privilege for their own national interests so there's no doubt that there are cases one of them for
02:57example the issue of Gaza that has been ongoing all this while yes no doubt we always cite October 7 but bear
03:05in mind the occupation on Gaza on Palestine has been there for since then the late 40s itself so we should not just
03:16look from October 7 but even before that the occupation has been there for such a long time so the
03:22frustration has been there you know mounting for such a long time so but at the same time to be fair to
03:30the United Nations there are areas that are which may be on low politics like on social such as on education
03:39childcare childcare there have been some achievements I must say for example some of some of its agencies like
03:46some of its agencies like UNESCO UNICEF even in the issue of healthcare you know they have achieved some
03:53brought some goodness to humanity but on the issues related to high politics or
03:59geopolitics there's a lot of frustration so coming back to the question that you have
04:03raised that I believe that we want reforms and this is what has been highlighted by almost most speakers
04:11who have spoken during the UNGA including Malaysia's Foreign Minister Datuk Mat Hasan he has been very strong
04:18in his message this year and even last year and the year before last by the Prime Minister himself Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim
04:25about calling for reforms within the United Nations I'll stop there we can discuss further
04:32yeah of course President Donald Trump US President Donald Trump himself questioned the legitimacy of the UN in his
04:38address this is of course nothing new but what does this say about the state of the UN
04:43Prof Saleh maybe we can look at the US politics here and how perhaps President Trump is taking into account
04:50public perception not just around the world but in the US of course and how might the US future
04:57involvement in the UN look like
04:59Thank you as well for the invitation
05:03I'm happy to be here and to respond to that I think it's it's really important to think about
05:10the domestic situation in the US because a lot of what President Trump said in the UN is reflecting his
05:19is reflecting his own political values for his base which is a significant segment of the American population
05:26but it's not the total population his ideas about immigration his critique about climate change
05:36it's all you know it's all a scam his critique about the lack of unity of European nations in terms of Ukrainian war
05:46I think all of that is reflecting his own political perspective and some segment of American society
05:53but in relation to Palestine I think you know there's a recent New York Times poll that states the majority of Americans are now of a different perspective from Trump and they think that the economic and military age should end
06:15and so and that's been a major shift New York Times just in a recent article stated from two years ago
06:22is a major shift in the outlooks and the perspectives of American citizens
06:27It's interesting you pointed out this shift in public perception
06:31how might then this grow into this growing disconnect between how the American public are talking about the Palestinian issue
06:40and how it's being addressed by the nation's leaders political leaders by the mainstream media
06:47do you see this disconnect and might that perhaps translate into growing discontentment?
06:52Yeah I think there's growing discontent you can see back in early 2024 there were you know really intense protests going on across the United States
07:03especially in university context including my own university there's a student group called Student Voices for Palestine
07:12and it's a very diverse student group there's students from all religious backgrounds in that you know there's definitely a strong representation of Muslim students
07:22but also there's Christian students there were Sikh students and there's some Jewish American students
07:29that were leaders of the organization leading in the chants and very active in the protest
07:35so I think there's a sense broadly in American society that it's a humanitarian issue
07:41and I think people are beginning to look past the religious differences and the discourses
07:48to really look into the humanitarian disaster you know because we're watching all of the videos all the bombing
07:56all the institutions getting destroyed
07:59and so I think there is this disconnect between the position not only of the Trump administration
08:05but also of the lawmakers because it's very difficult for Democrats and Republicans to vote against continuing the funding of the Israeli government
08:17I mean it's been up and there's been some Democrats that sort of but a minority
08:22so it's very strong I think amongst the political elite that Israel holds a very important geopolitical sort of position
08:31in relationship to US power in the Middle East
08:35I want to go back quickly to the UN General Assembly
08:39Dr. Roy talking about Israel and Palestine of course what did get the most attention were the act of
08:46by delegates walking out of the hall in protest as the Israeli leader Netanyahu made his speech
08:52and he among others in his speech declared the Western's recognition of the Palestinian state as a mark of shame
09:00just your overall thoughts on this growing pressure against Israel
09:04how it's been building up
09:06of course the issue stems beyond October 7th
09:10but since then we've seen this shift and this growing pressure now against Israel
09:16news about the genocide that has been occurring in Gaza has been picked up by media in the West
09:26and as we know that in the West issues related to human rights, genocide is a core issue
09:38and those who go out to protest whether it is in Paris, in London, in Dublin or in other parts of Europe
09:48they are not Muslims themselves
09:52they are Europeans they may be
09:56they may be Christians or they may be atheists
09:58or people who come from various backgrounds
10:00because the issue today is not just purely an Islamic issue
10:04but it is an issue of humanitarian help
10:08it's a humanitarian issue
10:10so that's why there's mounting of pressure
10:14from the people themselves
10:16from the grassroots
10:18wanting certain things to be done
10:20and the leaders
10:22whether it's in London, Paris
10:24they know very well
10:26if they do not act
10:28they will become less popular
10:30so this is also a matter of regime survival
10:32maybe they may still
10:34deep in their hearts
10:36they may have certain sympathy towards Israel
10:38for their regime survival
10:40they have to do something to show their support
10:42for the suffering of the Palestinian people
10:46so therefore I believe European countries today
10:50they choose to recognise Palestine
10:52is upon the interest of their own people
10:56the pressure from their own people
10:58because there have been numerous demonstrations
11:00and these are, as I said
11:02not done by migrants from South Asia
11:05or from the Middle East
11:07or from Southeast Asia
11:09but these are their own nationals themselves
11:12so therefore there is this call from the Western countries
11:16of course Netanyahu
11:18he has to protect his so-called
11:22his own interests by saying that it's a shame
11:24but the fact remains
11:26that this is a humanitarian crisis already
11:30yeah
11:31you talk about this public perception
11:33but if we were to look at the government's role
11:37in recognising the Palestinian state
11:40how do you think this would translate to real change
11:43for civilians in Gaza
11:45civilians in Palestinian territories if any?
11:48well at least diplomatically
11:51there is a recognition from these countries
11:54I think that is a first move
11:56in the past
11:57they choose not to recognise Palestine
12:00and we hope from that
12:02there will be more initiative undertaken
12:05by the European countries
12:07for example
12:08now this fortilia from Spain
12:10that is moving towards Gaza
12:13and those who participate in this fortilia
12:16are not purely Muslims per se
12:18a lot are Spanish activists
12:20and American activists themselves
12:22so I believe this is a first move
12:26a positive move
12:28towards the recognition of Palestine
12:31and this can provide some political pressure
12:35towards Israel
12:37Prof Salim, just your thoughts on this wave of recognition
12:41of the Palestinian state
12:43the symbolism of this act
12:45and you mentioned how it ties into of course
12:48domestic politics
12:50in the US
12:51in the American context
12:52but just for Western countries as a whole
12:54we're seeing in recent weeks
12:56the UK, Australia
12:59how symbolic do you think this move is
13:01taking into account
13:02domestic politics?
13:03I think it's quite significant symbolically
13:07but we have to look at it critically
13:10because on the one hand
13:11you have this increasing recognition
13:13of course
13:14you know it was even going on
13:15for the last couple years
13:16but at the same time
13:18you have this devastating destruction
13:21and humanitarian crisis
13:23It's still being funded by the same countries
13:25and it's still being funded
13:27so I mean the recognition
13:29especially of the need for a Palestinian state
13:32or some kind of solution
13:34you know some people say
13:35it should be a one state solution
13:36where everyone has equal rights in Israel
13:38some scholars are saying
13:40there should be a no state solution
13:43because states are part of the problem
13:44but whatever the solution
13:46I think it needs to be connected
13:47to what you noted
13:49in terms of the real life conditions
13:51of Palestinians
13:53and so we need to think first of all
13:55about stopping the violence
13:57and then we need to think about rebuilding
14:00and think about bringing the refugees back
14:03the right of return of refugees
14:06to you know in Lebanon
14:08or in Syria and so forth
14:10and Jordan
14:12and also the rights of returns
14:14of those who were displaced
14:15by the Nakba in 1948
14:17to go back to their homes
14:19and then to rebuild
14:20I think that's a priority
14:22so any kind of solution
14:24whatever it is
14:25a one you know two state
14:26a no state
14:27needs to be connected
14:28to improving those conditions
14:29and dealing with those real life issues
14:31Do you think that's being talked about enough
14:33those terms?
14:34I don't think they're being talked about enough
14:36it's you know very strongly absent
14:38from the New York Declaration
14:40that France and Saudi
14:42you know before the UNGA negotiated
14:45and spoke about
14:46it's absent from the Trump proposal
14:50because these proposals
14:51both of them
14:52even the New York Declaration
14:53are rather lopsided
14:55they're really catering to Israeli interests
14:57and they're not thinking about
14:59and really speaking to
15:01the real needs
15:02of the Palestinian masses
15:04Perhaps what's missing then
15:05is the voices
15:06of Palestinian people
15:07and what's missing
15:08is that
15:09the legitimacy
15:10and so how then
15:12do you think
15:13Palestinian voices
15:14should be centered
15:15in these talks
15:16in these conversations
15:17when
15:18you know their officials
15:19are not even being legitimized
15:20on an international level?
15:22I think there needs to be
15:24a council
15:25of countries
15:27countries
15:28from the UN
15:29you know
15:30to really move it out
15:31there's a lot of support
15:32something like
15:33143 nations
15:34you know
15:35are voting
15:36to recognize
15:37Palestine
15:38and to increase
15:39and upgrade their status
15:40as an observer state
15:41in the UN
15:42but I think
15:43that they need
15:44to bring in the voices
15:45it needs to be
15:46a council
15:47of those nations
15:48really to intervene
15:49and to try
15:50to broker
15:51a real sort of settlement
15:52a real proposal
15:54that brings in
15:55the voices
15:56and the concerns
15:57and the perspectives
15:58of Palestinians
15:59because both
16:00of these proposals
16:01New York Declaration
16:02and Trump's proposal
16:04is sort of centering
16:05on the Palestinian authority
16:07and I mean scholars
16:09have been writing
16:10for a long time
16:11that they're extremely
16:12unpopular
16:13with the Palestinian masses
16:14and you know
16:17their proposals
16:18are based on Hamas
16:21you know Hamas free zone
16:22turning over their weapons
16:24well when there was
16:25an election
16:26in Gaza
16:28they elected
16:29democratically elected
16:30Hamas in 2006
16:32so their voices
16:34and concerns
16:35need to be looked at
16:36I think
16:37they're colored so broadly
16:39as a terrorist organization
16:40by October 7th
16:41but of course
16:42they began
16:43in the 80s and 90s
16:45as a beneficent
16:46association
16:47helping people out
16:48providing for their needs
16:50and because of the violence
16:52from the Israeli state
16:54it's produced them
16:55they were driven
16:56to move
16:57to violent
16:58sort of methods
16:59so I think
17:00we have to think
17:01more broadly
17:02and historically
17:03that it's really
17:04the violence
17:05of occupation
17:06the violence
17:07of secular colonialism
17:08that has produced
17:09these responses
17:10from Palestinian organizations
17:12Yeah I mean
17:13it's interesting
17:14to think about
17:15these labels
17:16that are being thrown around
17:17painting them
17:18terrorist organizations
17:19and what not
17:20I think I just recently saw
17:22this event being held
17:24and organized by the CIA
17:26where they spoke
17:27and held a panel session
17:29with the Syrian leader
17:30who once was declared
17:32a terrorist
17:33labeled by the US government
17:35so it's really just
17:37interesting to see
17:38how fast these things
17:39and these labels change
17:40but Dr Roy
17:41going back to
17:42this peace plan
17:43as Prof Salim mentioned
17:45there's various mechanisms
17:47for peace
17:48or attempts at least
17:49and various solutions
17:50that's being proposed
17:51and one of the recent ones
17:53being proposed
17:54by Trump himself
17:55the so-called
17:56US peace plan
17:57for Gaza
17:58that has been welcomed
17:59by European
18:00and Middle Eastern leaders
18:02it does among others
18:03propose an immediate end
18:04to fighting
18:05the release of
18:06Israeli hostages
18:07and in exchange
18:08the release of
18:09hundreds of detained
18:10Palestinians
18:11and Trump himself
18:12has
18:13I'm not sure
18:14whether it was a warning
18:15or perhaps a threat
18:16to Hamas
18:17to accept it
18:18or Israel
18:19otherwise
18:20will quote
18:21finish the job
18:22how solid do you think
18:24is this peace plan
18:26what are the potential pitfalls
18:27do you think
18:28well
18:29you know
18:30how can you
18:31achieve
18:32a long-term peace
18:34with a threat
18:36isn't that an irony
18:38you know
18:39this for me
18:40is very much like
18:41in the past
18:42the gunboat diplomacy
18:44strategy
18:45is
18:46I
18:47I threaten you
18:49to accept
18:50so
18:51how can you
18:52achieve peace
18:53from something
18:54which is
18:55the origins
18:56of it
18:57is from a threat
18:58you know
18:59you cannot have
19:00the fruit
19:01which is
19:02you want peace
19:03but the root
19:04is
19:05from
19:06origin
19:07from a threat
19:08so you know
19:09it won't work in that way
19:10so I think
19:12you have to address
19:13the root cause
19:14is
19:15as I mentioned
19:16earlier on
19:17the issue of occupation
19:19the issue of colonisation
19:21that has occurred
19:22for
19:23so many years
19:25since 1948
19:27that is the root cause
19:28while you may have
19:29come up with
19:30some of this
19:31peace plan
19:32it's like
19:34you know
19:35you put down
19:36you put out fire
19:37in one
19:38but you don't address
19:39the fire will come up
19:40from another side
19:41you see
19:42and above all
19:43you impose threat
19:45to force people
19:46to accept it
19:47so
19:48it is just for
19:49a short term
19:50short gap measure
19:52it will ultimately
19:53come up with
19:54other forms of
19:55violence
19:56or threat
19:57or you know
19:58response
19:59you
20:00this I think
20:01in long term
20:02it may not necessarily
20:03work
20:04you see
20:05as I said
20:06you start off
20:07something that attract
20:08and you expect
20:09the fruit
20:10to be of harmony
20:11and peace
20:12that is something
20:13very difficult
20:14to achieve
20:15what then do you think
20:16could be the mechanism
20:17for real sustainable
20:19change
20:20as Professor Saleh mentioned
20:21perhaps
20:22it's in a way of
20:23developing this council
20:24from the UN
20:26a council of that nature
20:28is very important
20:30but let's go back
20:31to the basic
20:32the earlier UN resolutions
20:34it talks about
20:35two state solution
20:37or you know
20:38go back to the basic
20:39and the issue of
20:40occupation
20:41I think until
20:43and unless that
20:44is settled
20:46you will not have
20:49a long term peace
20:51in West Asia
20:53you were not able
20:56to achieve peace
20:57in that
20:58in Palestine
20:59yeah
21:00so I think that
21:01we have to go back
21:02to the basic
21:03you know
21:04and the UN resolutions
21:05that have been passed
21:06by the security council
21:08by itself
21:09but
21:10constantly being violated
21:11again and again
21:12the solution
21:13is already there
21:14it's just a matter
21:15of enforcement
21:16enforcing it itself
21:18and of course
21:20to add to this mix
21:21now we have
21:23the global Sumut flotilla
21:24of course
21:25all eyes are
21:26on the flotilla
21:27fleet of about
21:2840-50 vessels
21:29and ships
21:30now
21:31and increasing support
21:32more warships
21:33joining in
21:34there is some dispute
21:35there as to
21:36how Italy
21:37is playing its role
21:38but there is
21:39you know
21:40other military warships
21:41from Spain
21:42and Turkey as well
21:43and now nearing
21:44Gaza's waters
21:45how do
21:46Professor Roy
21:47how do you think
21:48this might
21:49be consequentially
21:51in the participation
21:52of military warships
21:53from other countries
21:54how might it
21:55change the dynamic
21:56of this conflict
21:57as I earlier on
21:59mentioned
22:00with the recognition
22:01of some of the
22:02European countries
22:03at least
22:05now
22:06this flotilla
22:07is not just
22:09flotilla
22:10by NGOs
22:11themselves
22:12but here
22:13they are being escorted
22:14by
22:15Spanish warships
22:16perhaps even
22:17Italian warships
22:18now you know
22:19the issue of
22:20if Italy really
22:21is sincere
22:24or serious
22:25sorry
22:26serious
22:27to help
22:28then will they
22:29ensure
22:30the
22:31the safety of
22:32this flotilla
22:33so with this
22:34recognition
22:35diplomatic recognition
22:36so
22:37we are hopeful
22:38that
22:39the European countries
22:40will at least provide
22:41some form of
22:42assistance
22:43right I'm not
22:44absolutely
22:45you know thinking
22:46they will be able
22:47to resolve the issue
22:48but at least
22:49compared to say
22:50five years ago
22:51when this
22:52flotilla
22:53were to enter
22:54the waters
22:55in Palestine
22:56there was no
22:58coverage
22:59or cover
23:01from the other
23:02countries
23:03Navy
23:04so at least today
23:05there is some form
23:06of positive improvement
23:07yeah
23:08we are coming to the end
23:09of this discussion
23:10but
23:11Professor Salema
23:12Drew just want to
23:13hear your thoughts
23:14on how
23:15you know as we're seeing
23:16the sort of narrative
23:17around Israel
23:18being broken down
23:19slowly and slowly
23:20and growing more
23:21each day
23:22the international community
23:25we might see them
23:26singling out
23:27the decreasing
23:29the depleting numbers
23:31of allies that Israel
23:32has now
23:33how do you foresee
23:35the international community
23:36in the next few years
23:38as this conflict
23:39continues to play out
23:40and how
23:41the U.S.
23:42might eventually
23:43lose some of its allies
23:44on this
23:45do you see this as being
23:46a critical juncture
23:47I think that's the
23:48direction we're heading
23:49Israel and the U.S.
23:50are becoming
23:51much more isolated
23:52on the international stage
23:54and I think what we need
23:56is really to move from
23:58and be inspired more broadly
24:00by the citizens
24:02from across the world
24:03who are in the Sumu flotilla
24:05going to challenge
24:06and putting their bodies
24:08and their lives
24:09on the line to challenge
24:10the blockade
24:11and so I think
24:12hopefully
24:13in the next coming years
24:15there'll be some kind
24:16of council that'll be
24:17organized
24:18but I think together
24:19with that there needs
24:20to be a peacekeeping
24:21force
24:22because Israel
24:23is very violent
24:25it's very belligerent
24:26I'm worried about
24:27the Sumu flotilla now
24:28and the lives
24:30of the people on there
24:31because they've been
24:32very aggressive
24:33they've been bombing
24:35you know countries
24:36throughout the region
24:37so I think there needs
24:38to be a peacekeeping
24:39force
24:40along with that council
24:41to sort of negotiate
24:42whatever kind
24:43of solution
24:44you know
24:45there needs to be
24:46some kind of intervention
24:47now
24:48of a peacekeeping force
24:49to force a peace
24:51because Israel
24:52doesn't appear
24:53to be willing
24:54you know
24:55to do it
24:56and the U.S.
24:57are supporting them
24:58even with
24:59as you mentioned
25:00the threat
25:01that if Hamas
25:02Palestinians don't accept it
25:03they're going to
25:04finish the job
25:05I mean what do you mean
25:06are they going to finish
25:07a genocide
25:08that the world's been
25:09looking at
25:10and so hopefully
25:11there'll be some kind
25:12of council
25:13and there'll be some kind
25:14of a peacekeeping force
25:15to move towards
25:16a resolution
25:17Lastly I do want to
25:18talk about something
25:19that you both pointed out
25:20and I think it's quite
25:21important about how
25:22this issue now cuts
25:23across religion
25:24religious lines
25:25definitely
25:26and
25:27Professor Saleem
25:28you look into anthropology
25:29you look into religion
25:30and
25:31how do you think
25:32how important do you think
25:34is it when we look at the framing
25:36of this conflict
25:37and
25:38you know when we look
25:39after decades and decades
25:41we look back
25:42in history books
25:43and how
25:44this has been
25:45sort of
25:46talked about
25:47not just in mainstream media
25:48but in public
25:49discourse as well
25:50how important do you think
25:52is it for us to
25:53look at this beyond
25:54religious lines
25:55or perhaps maybe
25:56it is also important
25:57to talk about
25:58the religious context
25:59I don't know
26:00I think it's important
26:01to think about
26:02the religious context
26:03but also to think
26:04beyond that
26:05because as Professor Rogers
26:07pointed out
26:08it's a broader
26:09humanitarian issue
26:10but I think
26:11in particular countries
26:12it's you know
26:13the response of people
26:14was connected
26:15to their religious identities
26:17and so for Muslims
26:19of course
26:20there's an automatic
26:21very strong connection
26:22with the Holy Land
26:24and with the sacred mosques
26:26and so forth
26:27I mean it's that
26:28kind of connection
26:29but I think
26:30it's broader now
26:31because people were
26:32seeing the extent
26:33of the genocide
26:34right
26:35and so I think
26:36earlier the people
26:37responded
26:38well that's a religious
26:39struggle
26:40and it's going to go
26:41it's been going on forever
26:42it's going to continue
26:43forever
26:44it's a primordial thing
26:45but of course
26:46it's not
26:47because a lot
26:48of Palestinians
26:50are also Christians
26:52a lot of them
26:53are also Jews
26:54not a smaller number
26:56but they had been
26:57living there
26:58in peace
26:59right
27:00for centuries
27:01before the plan
27:03right
27:04backed by European powers
27:05to establish
27:06this occupation
27:07which Mr. Rogers
27:08spoke to
27:09so I think
27:10that we need
27:11to you know
27:12think about religion
27:13but also expand
27:14and think more broadly
27:15because it is a broad
27:16humanitarian
27:17Do you think
27:18we talk enough
27:19about the colonial
27:20struggle of this
27:21right?
27:22That's right
27:23we do need to think
27:24more about you know
27:25the settler colonialism
27:26you know
27:27that's involved with it
27:28and the support
27:29from other settler
27:30colonial states
27:31and colonialist states
27:33and so I think
27:34that's part of the problem
27:35that we're still dealing
27:36with in terms of
27:37transforming
27:38and making those reforms
27:39within the UN
27:41that Matt Hassan
27:43was talking about
27:44because you still
27:45have this set
27:46of five countries
27:48right?
27:49The permanent members
27:50of the UN Security Council
27:52that have the veto power
27:53so when a resolution
27:55comes up
27:56for you know
27:57to solve the issue
27:58you know
27:59US
28:00settler colonial state
28:01that's been close
28:02to funding
28:03Israel
28:04has a very close
28:05historic relationship
28:06has vetoed it
28:07they vetoed it
28:08last year
28:09and so I think
28:11that's part of the colonial
28:12aftermath
28:13because the UN was formed
28:14in 1945
28:15I mean
28:16it was still sort of
28:17a colonial
28:18Second World War
28:19and so forth
28:20so it still has
28:21that
28:22the vestiges
28:23of the imperialistic
28:24colonial era
28:26and I think
28:27Matt Hassan is right
28:29it needs to be
28:30the veto needs to be eliminated
28:32and the UN needs to be reformed
28:34I mean it goes all the way
28:35back
28:36and there's of course
28:37a lot of layers to this
28:38of course want to continue
28:39picking your brain on this
28:40but that is all the time
28:41that we have perhaps
28:42for another session
28:43for another day
28:44thank you so much
28:45once again to Professor Salim
28:46and Assistant Professor Dr Roy
28:48for joining us to do
28:49on Awani Global
28:50that is all Awani Global
28:51this week with me
28:52Nalawda
28:53we'll catch you another time
29:08this week with the
29:11of the United States
29:12of the United Kingdom
29:13now
29:14it is a member of the
29:15of the United States
29:16we will be using the
29:17field of the United States
29:18that is very good
29:19and we will be facing
29:20with the United States
29:21to ensure that
29:22we need to continue
29:23getting higher
29:25we will be facing
29:27by the United States
29:28and we will be facing
29:29here
29:33to ensure a new
Comments