- 4 months ago
An early morning fire inside an apartment complex soon reveals something worse — the dead bodies of a young woman and an infant boy. Detectives find a psychopath who appears polite and gentle, then later as a pawn of imagined demons.
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00:00A
00:18Bradenton mother and her infant son were found dead in a house fire, but according to investigators,
00:23the two did not die in that fire. They were killed.
00:26A firefighter heading into work spotted the fire and found 18-year-old Diamond Shellman
00:32as well as the baby inside.
00:40It was so sweet. I don't see how God let something like this happen to him.
00:56I would kill again. I'm dead. I'm alive.
01:00But I don't think it was wrong.
01:02The thing inside of me is like the appetite.
01:06It's like a wolf that's going longer.
01:12Younger.
01:18Did somebody come and explain to me?
01:41I don't know what's going on, man.
01:43So I'm just having a conversation, figure out what's going on here?
01:46Yeah, yeah.
01:46Where are we at this morning?
01:47Is it your home?
01:48Yeah, I was home.
01:49Yes, I woke up, because Diana called my other bedroom.
01:53She called.
01:55She was like, I didn't want you to think I was keeping him away from you because I had company
02:00over and stuff like that.
02:09And I told her it was fine.
02:11So then she asked me if I wanted to come over.
02:14What time did she call?
02:15She was like, well, do you still want to see him?
02:21I said, yeah.
02:23So I'm going to see him for a little bit.
02:24I think Larry Williams is somebody who thinks he's the smartest person in the room.
02:31I think he thinks of himself as being pretty smooth.
02:35He's got two women who have children close to the same age by him.
02:41He's living with one girlfriend.
02:42We know that Larry Williams has had a criminal record.
02:47He was accused of initiating sexual contact with individuals who are under the age of 12.
02:55So it really is remarkable how calm he is and how there's such a lack of anxiety when he's in the room with these two seasoned detectives.
03:05His lack of anxiety, I think, is partly his confidence that he can handle whatever is coming up.
03:15One of them there didn't go in the house.
03:17No, I didn't go in the house.
03:18She burned the baby up.
03:20So everything was fine.
03:21Yeah, everything's okay.
03:23It's fine and okay.
03:28Did you go to the door?
03:29Yeah, I went to the door.
03:31When I went to the door, she was like, got company back there.
03:35She just met him and stuff, and she was with him all day.
03:47She was with him all day.
03:48She told me she was with him all day.
03:52She wrapped the baby up, and we walked to the car.
03:55We sat in the car.
03:56I seen him, played with him, and I was gone.
04:03Larry, you're killing me here, buddy.
04:05I'm telling you that, okay?
04:07Y'all are having a tip over something.
04:11Those apartment walls are thin.
04:13People can hear everything.
04:15People know everything.
04:17You can't hide.
04:18When I left, everything was perfectly fine.
04:20He's saying to him, there was no head.
04:22There's nobody else that left that apartment.
04:25At this point, the detectives are giving William some indication that they know he's not being truthful.
04:31Like many psychopathic individuals, there's an active sort of exchange.
04:35That goes on with law enforcement, where they're always engaging in this impression management, trying to advance their own narrative for detectives.
04:44Williams is already out of the gate, trying to control the narrative of what's happened.
04:47He's trying to preemptively direct detectives to look here and not look there.
04:52Look at this other person she was just starting to date.
04:55Maybe that's the person who hurt her.
04:57That's the last person who was with her.
04:59Do you have a temper?
05:02I have a temper.
05:04I can't say it's a bad temper, no.
05:06Bad temper.
05:07Did you love her?
05:10I have love for her because she carried my child.
05:14Yeah, I did love that.
05:16I do.
05:17I do love that.
05:18But your kid.
05:18Those are the kids, the reason why I get up every day, I'm looking at that.
05:26He says, I did love her.
05:28He sort of slips up and puts that in the past tense.
05:31And then when he catches himself, he brings it back to the current tense.
05:34And that all there just highlights his unsophisticated approach to this interview.
05:40He's not really thinking 10 steps ahead.
05:42He's just trying to get by and be cool, calm, and collected.
05:46But he's really just this unsophisticated individual.
05:49I need you to do me a favor.
06:04I need to sit in the chair.
06:05I need you to see your fingers.
06:07They don't allow them to put me in a lap.
06:09Okay.
06:09And a dog's going to come in.
06:10Just don't move.
06:11I don't want the dog to bite you.
06:13She's fine.
06:14Only if I tell her.
06:17Okay.
06:19This way.
06:19Come here.
06:19Come here.
06:20Come here.
06:20This way.
06:36This way.
06:41All right.
06:41Come here.
06:42Over here.
06:44She can't do anything.
06:45Okay.
06:47Okay.
06:48Okay.
06:49Look at what that means when you do that.
07:00It means that you've been in contact with some kind of cellar.
07:08She's making a positive alert on you for an cellar.
07:11Anything from rubbing alcohol, gasoline, diesel, fuel, water, food.
07:16I'll rub my face down.
07:17I go like that.
07:18She's out.
07:19She slurs I didn't think to me.
07:23The thing that's interesting about Williams is that he never shows any outward signs of stress.
07:28Many people in this situation would suddenly become aware that they're under suspicion for some serious crime.
07:35They've brought a dog in who picks up on accelerants, and the dog hits on Williams, not once, but twice.
07:44But Williams doesn't miss a beat.
07:46He doesn't seem surprised.
07:47He just quickly explains it away.
07:50He stays in control of the situation.
07:52He just gives them an explanation and moves on.
07:55Have you been around gasoline this morning?
07:58No.
07:59Well, that dog said you did.
08:03And we know you have.
08:04You were around gasoline over at Donna's apartment, Ms. Williams.
08:08Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
08:09Y'all trying to say how I went over there and started fighting her apartment?
08:14I have this gas smell on me every day, and it burns my skin all the time.
08:17Williams is someone who's pretty comfortable lying.
08:22He's comfortable not telling the truth, and he's not concerned about being found out.
08:26He just has what seemed to him to be reasonable explanations for everything that's about to unfold.
08:39I was talking to my son's dad last night, and he was telling me all types of weird stuff,
08:44like how little men attack him while he's sleeping.
08:47We were, um, planning to go see that, you know, Drooper's Creepers, the scary movie.
08:53And then she was telling me she used to see that and all that.
08:56And I was like, oh, you talking about will you see things?
08:59She was like, yeah, I see things, but I don't mind it.
09:02That's demons and all that.
09:04I said, well, I guess I ain't the only one who sees things, but I don't pay no attention either.
09:09Like what?
09:10When you say you see things here and there, like what?
09:12The damn thing of the conjurer.
09:13When you were over at her house, what did you see over at her house?
09:19I need you to think back.
09:20Seriously think about what did you see.
09:23It was the same damn thing, but do you call it?
09:27Do you have a name for it?
09:30I don't.
09:31The last time I was laying in a bed and I, both of my eyes, the book was red.
09:40And it was like something was, I believe it.
09:45And I looked up at it and it was just standing over me, just holding me down.
09:51And they said, you know, there's, there's eyes in the closet.
10:00When you parked at Diamond's house, just to let it?
10:04Yes.
10:04It was trying to get inside me.
10:08It made it inside you.
10:10It controlled you.
10:11And it did something.
10:12That's what we need you.
10:13We need you to tell me what it did.
10:15I don't, don't remember anything.
10:17Now he's ratcheted up his story and he's wanting the detectives to believe that there's a demon that's inside of him.
10:26I see things.
10:27I hear things other people don't.
10:28It doesn't normally cause me stress.
10:30I just ignore it.
10:31And yet on that day, it was someone that was trying to hold him down and scare him and control him.
10:37It was trying to get inside him.
10:39And it may have been responsible for whatever bloody, awful, violent stuff happened in that apartment.
10:45It just doesn't add up.
10:47Williams is a seasoned criminal, but he's not a seasoned mental health patient.
10:51He doesn't yet understand the inconsistencies in the story he's offering and why it's implausible.
10:57And the detectives capitalize on that.
10:59They join him in his delusional statements and they join him in his explanations and they want him to now tell them, what is it that the demon did?
11:07I need you to tell me exactly what they did and what they did inside that house.
11:14This thing is making me angry and I don't like it.
11:20This is right there in that corner and it's just shaking his head.
11:22Which one of them poured the gas in me?
11:28The other one.
11:32The reason why it's not gas in the lid, the other one hurt me.
11:35Because you tried to stop it, right?
11:37I tried to stop him.
11:38Williams is losing control of the situation.
11:50He's losing control of the narrative and of the interview.
11:53And while at this point, most psychopathic individuals want to maintain control, what we see is Williams is just this fishtail is growing.
12:03Now we have not one demon, but we have two demons.
12:06And they're battling it out for what the role is that they're each going to have in this crime.
12:10And it's becoming more and more implausible.
12:13His narcissism is starting to get the best of him.
12:15Because the detectives are joining him in this story and they're showing him what he believes is empathy and kindness and understanding that he has these mental health issues,
12:25he just gets overconfident and starts spinning this story that now spins out of control.
12:31And who did the big one burn?
12:34It was all over the house.
12:36Yes.
12:36All over the house.
12:37Did he pour it on diamond?
12:38I don't recall.
12:40I remember diamond, she stumbled in the room.
12:43I didn't go back there.
12:44When he was pouring the gas, where was your son?
12:47He was in the diamond.
12:48That's my son, okay?
12:50Where's my son?
12:53Your son was still in the apartment.
12:56Is he okay?
12:59No.
13:01What do you think, though?
13:04Not okay.
13:05I don't care about it.
13:12I don't know, man.
13:13He told me I just lost my child.
13:19No, I'm not buying these emotions here.
13:22I mean, this is somebody who knows what has happened to his son.
13:27And I think the fact that he puts his head in his hand and kind of looks down is something I see so often.
13:32When people, they don't have the genuine emotions, but they know that they're expected.
13:38When we look at psychopathy, I think that most psychopaths do have emotions, but they're always related to themselves.
13:47They feel pleasure.
13:48They feel anger.
13:50They feel frustration.
13:51It's all about them.
13:53When you're talking about emotions toward other people, like empathy, like guilt, like remorse, they're absent.
14:03And so he's got to figure out how he should be acting and then try to do that.
14:09Who had the knife at that point?
14:19It was just diamond in that damn thing.
14:21That's it.
14:22That thing.
14:23That is gray and that got red eyes.
14:26They made you turn on Diamond, right?
14:29Me and Diamond actually decided to die out, and we were starting around taking ourselves out.
14:34About committing suicide?
14:35Yes.
14:37Why?
14:37There was too much.
14:38What were you going to do with the child?
14:39The plan was for my aunt to become the child.
14:43Were you supposed to kill yourself afterwards?
14:45I was supposed to.
14:45Which, and escape?
14:46I was supposed to lay down in that fire.
14:53You were supposed to lay down in that fire?
14:55Yes.
14:57Williams goes into now yet another variable of his story, in that he was going to die.
15:04Him and Diamond were going to, you know, kill themselves, and he was supposed to die, but for some reason, he lived.
15:09It's just getting ridiculous.
15:11I think he might even be telling these wild stories to see if he can confuse police.
15:18Malingering is oftentimes a term that we as forensic experts talk about when somebody is lying or fabricating information
15:25or feigning symptoms to try and present their reality as something different than it is.
15:31While malingering is not an actual diagnosis, you're always assessing for whether there is a motive to fabricate.
15:38And in the case of Williams, the motivation is very obvious.
15:40He doesn't want to go to prison for killing two people.
15:44He doesn't want to be seen as somebody who left his son in a home that was on fire to basically burn in the fire and suffocate from smoke inhalation.
15:53Yeah.
15:54So…
15:54So…
15:55So…
16:07She told me everything.
16:36And she told me that, like, she was not his poor boyfriend,
16:42but that she was seeing him, getting to know him,
16:45to see if she came, like, once.
16:48And then he was straight.
16:50And she was with him last night.
16:52OK.
16:55So she said that she was going to tell her baby daddy.
16:57She then had told him, and he was happy for her.
17:01So then, like, she had told him, because I
17:04guess she had a picture framed with him,
17:09who was the boy, Trey, her and her son.
17:13And he got really upset about it.
17:17She's providing some more of the back story here,
17:20the true back story.
17:21He was jealous.
17:23He wanted control over her.
17:26For psychopaths like Williams, for their significant other
17:30or former significant other moving on to someone else,
17:34is sort of like a wound to their ego.
17:36And it also is a sense of a loss of control
17:39and power over that person.
17:41They can't use them and get what they want out of them
17:43because somebody else has them.
17:45That provides a realistic picture of why Williams
17:48might have murdered Diamond.
18:04Tell me about what he told you he did in the apartment
18:12to this girl and the baby.
18:13OK.
18:15He went in there, stabbed him, or he went to the room,
18:19poor gasoline all over him, all over the body.
18:23Made a trail outside him, in the hallway,
18:27poor gasoline everywhere, everywhere, out the door.
18:30Oh, OK.
18:31Did, uh, and what did he mention about the baby?
18:35He wrapped the baby up.
18:36He didn't want to take the baby because it would have seen obvious.
18:40He, um, mentioned something about a defense of demons
18:46or something to you.
18:47What did he tell you?
18:48He said he hoped that works, the demons.
18:51He made that up.
18:53But all that was allowed.
18:54When we talk about psychopaths and their children,
18:59you know, there's a lot of research to suggest
19:01that the attachment, if there is one,
19:04and sometimes there's not, is very shallow.
19:07This is a person or a child who's expendable
19:10if it comes to protecting myself.
19:12So it's this lack of genuine attachment.
19:15But when push comes to shove, Williams will do anything
19:20to protect himself, including murdering his son.
19:24The pattern that you see with Larry Williams
19:35is one of self-preservation.
19:37It's all about him.
19:38He's very, very selfish.
19:40We know that he has several psychopathic tendencies
19:44and traits, such as being manipulative, deceitful,
19:47pathological lying, callousness, even superficial charm.
19:52These traits combined with his narcissistic tendencies
19:55is what drives his violence.
19:57All of that speaks to someone that has this deeply ingrained
20:01dysfunctional pattern of behavioral
20:03and cognitive and personality traits,
20:06which is essentially a psychopath.
20:08And it may be very much stronger.
20:20And it may be very much stronger,
20:25but it may be very good for you,
20:26but it might be very strong.
20:27But it's really good for you.
20:28And you know the one with got to be a scientist.
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