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00:00You
00:30You
00:36Beyond the tape we'll be back after these messages
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02:47You
03:01Welcome to be on the tape. I'm Mark Basanti your host and today of course is Thursday one more day before the end of the
03:07Week, of course, you know today it's Thursday where we have a particular officer that usually joins us
03:12His name is acting ESP Ishmael Pitt from the
03:17Northern North Division welcome acting ESP Pitt. How are you today? Thank you, Mark
03:23I'm not too bad. Pleasant afternoon, Toronto Beagle
03:27Well, you know, we've had our fair share of activities during the course of the day probably over the last 24 hours
03:33But it's always a pleasure being here. Of course and I mean, I just I know that we're gonna be talking a lot about
03:41Solution oriented
03:43Things today as it pertains not just the extortion or who invasions and with us
03:47But I guess how the public can become more involved in assisting the police and solving crime in general
03:54Not just specifically to one one particular area. Yeah, but I know that over the last couple of days
04:00We've had some very heavy news to be a we had shooting of a five-year-old girl and a father on Tuesday night in Moruga
04:08Both were shot dead by a gunman and
04:12On the heels of that, of course, we saw the Prime Minister
04:17Issuing a statement on his Facebook
04:19last night
04:21Following this and this is what he said
04:23He said I'm shocked and angered at the barbarism that could result in violent criminal conduct with total disregard for human life in our
04:31Country which could see an adult with a firearm deliver several shots into the body of a five-year-old
04:37This and acts like these represent the worst of what we are and what we have produced
04:44He continued as we continue to provide alternatives in very many ways hoping to encourage a humane
04:50Human sorry and humane response. We will also relentlessly
04:54pursue those who want and the assault of a security and
04:58safety our national efforts must not waver the heartless perpetrators will be identified and
05:04Justice will be saved towards the end of eliminating the scourge from our country those hope
05:10So some very profound words
05:13They're acting ESP but from the Prime Minister
05:17Following this tragic event and I know it it must be something that become a little bit fed up about about
05:24Seeing having to make these comments not just politicians
05:28But the public over and over about how sad it is to lose a child or even an adult
05:34to
05:36Unrelenting gunmen. Yeah, it
05:39Is definitely a traumatic experience for anyone to lose someone under those circumstances
05:46I mean, yes, we have been seeing so much of issues coming out of
05:53Communities families are being impacted
05:56Relationships are being impacted and you have asked the question. How is the public able now to
06:03Support the police service and how is the police service now able to manage regarding treating and pushing back?
06:12Concerning this violent crime issue and it must be a collaborative effort. It must be a great sense of partnership
06:19It must be consistent. It must be sustainable
06:23It is not a situation we would say that we can just arrest ourselves out of
06:29Because oftentimes we look at the rough tough hard and fast type of policing
06:35But we must appreciate the fact that there are other social issues that are involved in some of these incidents
06:42and for that reason we welcome that type of
06:46relationship with persons and technocrats who may have the
06:50necessary
06:52information based on
06:53Research and other data-driven processes to assist us in making informed decisions
06:59having informed operations
07:01Targeting persons and you know, generally managing law enforcement and trying to be doing a positive
07:07Well, well, I definitely know that as time go on in this program today
07:10We will unpack some of those things especially when it comes to social issues and of course
07:15communities and how important I remember
07:19Under Winston Cooper the community policing unit
07:22Yes
07:22That played a very integral part in this country for quite a while and that I believe it was kind of disbanded
07:29In a matter of speaking where there was and they're now trying to find that niche
07:34To get that kind of community policing that we once had several years ago back in the nation these communities that needed most
07:42Look, but I I would not say that it was disbanded
07:46and it's not a case of
07:48that the community policing apparatus of the police service is not as vibrant as it was before in fact
07:54We have a heavy emphasis on community policing and there are so many successes that has come out of that type of approach
08:04however
08:05It's a case of the community policing officers not always being seen as having that type of impact because how do you measure?
08:14Preventative success it is easier to measure things that are tangible
08:19So something happened and then you are able now to compare it with what occurred sometime probably previous year
08:25But in terms of prevention, you know, it is it is a lot more difficult to measure and and for that reason
08:32The community policing officers are sometimes
08:35Seen as not creating that impact that they are actually creating but based on the feedback from members of the community
08:42The police youth clubs
08:44children in schools and school teachers
08:48we are proud at this point in time to say that the community policing is having a
08:54significant impact and we intend to
08:56Make it much more robust going forward by pumping more resources in that direction
09:01And the TGPS obviously cannot do this alone
09:05We need the assistance of the NGOs and other community organizations out there that can help to push these young
09:13Influenced minds in a particular direction so that they don't fall prey to
09:18You know the obvious easy things based on people various various elements in these communities coming out there and and and and
09:27Trying to influence them into a political
09:29Sorry particular path. Yes, and we know there are challenges in some of these high-risk communities
09:37You know single parenting, you know unemployment
09:40Tell them a few of course. Yeah, I don't want to stereotype anybody, but we know that those issues exist
09:46Yes, they are on the surface there and it takes much more than the police
09:52to
09:53Solve these issues. Yeah, and you are absolutely correct. So
09:57Just to piggyback on what we were
10:00Looking at before with the community policing community policing is a step a modern day step
10:05Towards applying that that same impact that you are talking about targeting the social aspects
10:12But you are indeed correct. It's only so far we can go from a policing lens. Yes, so we would need
10:19NGOs and other persons to partner with us in order to bridge that gap in order to treat with issues that might be
10:27Beyond us in terms of probably resources and even skill sets, you know different social service departments and
10:34Things of that nature. There are things that might be existent in certain communities that
10:40the community themselves
10:42might have the answers and
10:45We often say that we are not a repository of all information and all ideas and
10:51It is true our town meetings and our station council meetings and through these engagements
10:56That we welcome persons to bring forward whatever issues that they might be facing in the community in one instance and to even advance
11:05recommendations
11:06As to how we might be able to best treat with the issue because as I said before not all issues
11:13Might be best addressed through the
11:17arrest and lock-up approach. Yes, that is our mandate, but generally and
11:25Over akin to that is the mandate of maintaining law and order and preserving the peace, you know, you drew a very
11:33a reference there about community
11:36Involvement and the police going to these areas and of course, it's a good way that
11:40Just yesterday they had a police town meeting in Woodbrook. Yes, so I imagine
11:45That helps to kind of break the ice for some people have this distrust about the police or they're not being assisted
11:52And I know with time it will take time
11:55And I think because of the sense of where we are right now
11:59with crime
12:01and
12:01Some people need to see more tangible results and perhaps
12:05Bridging that gap by going into these communities these at-risk communities and other communities that need help
12:11Because you might have some simple things happening in various areas
12:15That people are unsure about how to go about getting
12:19Assistance or how to solve that problem. Yeah, and I know as I said, it's it's not all on the police
12:25But of course other influential community activists and other people
12:30Who are also on the ground in these areas and are seeing the problems
12:33And and they can offer solutions and of course work hand in hand with
12:38The police and by extension other groups that have a greater understanding and they're spending more time in those areas
12:46Than the police of course
12:48So you all might be passing through at some point in time or you might be called
12:52Because of a particular event happening or an incident that occurred in the community. Yeah
12:56And being able to be grounded in the community these people they will have a better idea and interacting with you all
13:03I guess it gives people a better sense of understanding and you all police that is
13:09How to deal with particular issues in these communities. Yeah
13:14I'm glad that you mentioned
13:16That the police and and this is oftentimes the lens that we are seeing
13:21We would engage persons when there are issues when we are called to provide a service
13:27So that that's the traditional approach to policing
13:30But now
13:31It's our objective to be part of the community. So you don't only see us when something is wrong, but you you you see the police
13:40Every day
13:41Every day
13:43And you see the police
13:45When something is wrong, but you you you see the police
13:49Every day and the the relationship is not
13:53adversarial
13:54It's it's more of and and you would be able to relate to the sesame street
13:59Police is a person in your neighborhood. Yes, so
14:04our presence must not only be seen as one that
14:09Is needed in order to treat with situations when they have gone bad
14:14But also one where we see ourselves as part of the community
14:19Persons see us as part of the community and you said it it would improve
14:24The relationship to the extent that we that that level of trust where someone now can say yes, I can relate to this person
14:31It's similar to probably someone driving a ph car and you are familiar with them and i'm saying ph
14:36We know that there are some issues with that
14:38But I know persons could relate it and you know the person because they are from the community
14:42and you will feel comfortable traveling with them as opposed to someone who
14:47You don't know at all. You may not want to travel to that person for fear that that person might have
14:52wrong intentions so similarly
14:55When you are seeing the police every day and we spoke about that
14:59face the face type of policing
15:02In your face type of policing and this is exactly what we are referring to where you would see the police officers
15:08Regularly, we are on the spot. It's not the the fireman approacher. We are leaving the station to respond, but we are there
15:13We are on the ground. We are on site so we can respond
15:15Immediately to your needs and we are should not only be seen as coming in when something goes wrong
15:21Interestingly that you you mentioned sesame street. Yeah, that sure has really
15:25Evolved over the years the dynamics of it, but it still resonates with us
15:29Of course, and and do we do we find programming like that locally to help to educate?
15:36Young children the impressionable minds that are growing up because we still remember we learn a lot from looking at sesame street
15:43At the ages of two three, four five come up the road, right? Yes, and
15:48Do we see?
15:50People now trying to and in terms of content because we have a lot of things that are social media that are pushed of course
15:55um, but do we have enough positive content for
16:00young people to consume
16:02And i'm so consuming
16:04Nourish their minds
16:06And give them a sense of I know what I want to do when I grew up. Yes. I don't want to hold a gun and
16:12Take money from somebody but I want to be a pilot. I want to be a doctor
16:17I want to be a police officer. Yeah, but they have some ambition
16:21um, you know looking at things from a very young age it it kind of
16:25Kind of gives you an impression. We looked at sesame street for many years even into our teens sometimes
16:30Yes, and you certain things resonate with you they stick with you
16:35How to do certain things and how not to do certain things life lessons. Yeah
16:41um
16:41There are we would say a lot of positive content
16:46And it's there to be looked at
16:48uh in converse
16:50There are also a tremendous amount of negative content and it's for that reason. We continue to speak about
16:57Uh parenting and that guardianship that is important in order to guide persons
17:03We know that at this point in time
17:05Information is at the touch of a button or the touch of a screen
17:09so that what we
17:12Will insulate it against as children now children. It is easily accessible to them
17:19And for that reason they are living in a much more challenging time
17:23So parenting need to be much more robust so that what
17:29As as shorty I said what we feed the minds with, you know, it shaped their characteristic
17:35Positively. So for that reason we need to more or less police
17:40what our children are
17:42Viewing and what they are feeding their minds with in order to enrich their character
17:47We'll continue this discussion for the show. So don't worry about we'll get back to that
17:51But now let's take a look at our headlines today
18:21So
18:46Oh
18:51All right, so remember this show is not about us
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19:031992-1993 and 1997. So before we do that, let's take a break. We'll be back
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20:49Welcome back to be on the tip and of course today's Thursday and we have no none other than acting ASP
20:55Ishmael Pitt from the northern north division joining us as usual on a Thursday
21:00so I
21:03Would really encourage
21:04call us from Tobago to also chiming on this discussion and we know that there is a
21:11Mounting problem in Tobago and we saw another mass shooting there last night
21:17Six people were shot
21:19The images is on your screen basically of one of the injured persons being taken out of the vehicle and so on
21:27The deceased was identified as cool and Thomas just 21 years old
21:32Four of the five other men. Sorry were also shot
21:36For pretty stable. One is somewhat critical, but now stabilized I understand
21:43recently and
21:45the gang
21:47violence is becoming out of hand in a in Tobago where they really rely a lot on tourism and
21:55I
21:57Think yes people
21:59Why is he there can you it now set up directly into me?
22:02Well, I know that they have sent officers there
22:04But I think because of the area so geographically small and because we know some of these areas where they have actually migrated to
22:12And we want to suppress this before it even gets worse. Yeah
22:17well, our special investigations unit has
22:22Overall responsibility for the gang units through VTTPS and
22:27They have sent some of their finest to Tobago in order to treat with this particular gang situation
22:34so at this point in time Tobago is not without the skill set of persons who have an understanding as the
22:40gang investigations gang intelligence gang suppression
22:45And they are partnering at this point in time with the localized officers in order to get the situation
22:53to a manageable level
22:56Having said that
22:59again, we would have seen what we may call a close-knit community to be good at is and
23:06now we are
23:08again
23:09Requesting and beseeching that that type of feedback on the ground for persons
23:16who I know as to who might be doing this and who might be doing that and why involved with this and wine who's
23:21involved with that one that we need that type of
23:25information coming in so that we can
23:27translate it into intelligence and
23:30Evidence it so to speak so that we could be able to hold persons
23:34Account and I know prosecute persons for what we are seeing taking place on the island
23:39Oh, I don't want you to answer this because I understand we have a quarter. Is it that toboganians are so Norman?
23:45So you're not accustomed to this type of violence. They don't know how to react properly just for that
23:50So what a good afternoon your life
23:54Good afternoon, sir, your life
24:00Yes, sir
24:03There's a lot of people put an L at the winner on their vehicle I'm teaching people to drive
24:11You know, um, the law states
24:14That the vehicle must be in short for that purpose
24:17But like I said, no, you pass into my wallet everybody doesn't have a hell of a vehicle
24:21If you're driving the vehicle, the police need to get on this because if that because it's a death in a collision
24:27Unfortunately, you know something about the business in short
24:29So this was a segment of question in this study because tell I feel they are legit
24:39Okay, so thanks very much for your information and we will have it address thanks much
24:44certainly, I mean
24:47Commissioner of transport will have to speak to that in some measure because I know it's something along his line
24:51So I guess we could pass the information on color
24:54Yeah, and we let him know I myself was not aware of that, but it's quite likely it could be happening
24:59under the noses of
25:01the
25:02Transport Commissioner and the licensing authority. I should say unknowing to them, of course
25:07So it's something that we definitely will pass on to the transport commissioner as we continue our discussion about
25:15Tobago and
25:1620 murders
25:18For the year. It's a record apparently a
25:22Small island that it thrives a lot on tourism. We have a lot of
25:27European tourists that come there very often
25:30to enjoy the beautiful beaches that Tobago
25:34possess and
25:35now that serenity has been
25:39literally
25:40awoken by gun violence and most
25:45You know heinous crimes of gangs
25:49Retribution of gangs killing each other. Is it that how how does Tobago
25:55Get past this, I mean the police have a job to do but you also need information as you said an intelligence
26:04Is the intelligence gathering
26:07Enough especially in Tobago to say, you know, sometimes we might be able to intercept an action
26:15Because of a call that was made prior to the incident happening. Is that happening enough?
26:21The police to stop such in Tobago and not just in Tobago and Trinidad
26:25Well, is it something that is still need to finesse and to work on?
26:31Good very good question
26:33there's so much that takes place behind the scenes and
26:38As I said earlier regarding prevention the public largely they are unaware. So how many
26:45Violent crimes we are able to to prevent from a police and perspective
26:52Having said that though you asked the question earlier whether the Tobago public is
26:58Responding properly or if they know how to respond
27:01we are confident that the
27:05Persons who reside in Tobago fully aware as to their responsibility
27:09Let me cut you a cross, but the reason I ask that is that
27:12These are people I have never seen this type of violence. Yes
27:17You know deteriorate so rapidly over a very short space of time
27:21Yeah
27:21And I know everybody processes things differently if you're accustomed to living in a very serene community
27:27And all of a sudden they attend with us in three weeks. You're gonna be asking yourself questions as what's happening here
27:34Exactly. And as I said, everybody process or
27:37conceptualize these things in a very different manner
27:39Yeah, so again
27:45Brothers are dying
27:47Fathers are dying
27:49Sisters are dying
27:51And the community is being impacted. Tobago is being impacted. That serenity that you spoke of is being impacted and
27:59Yes persons would respond in different ways, but largely
28:04We have seen from a historical context where
28:09The detection rate for homicide has been tremendous
28:12Previous years and we believe that in this situation based on what we have experienced it will be no different
28:18It's a matter that these incidents are being investigated and the the success of prosecution
28:25We are very optimistic regarding that
28:28but
28:29We believe that
28:32But
28:34We need to treat the situation in terms of preventing this situation that has already
28:39Reached a stage where we are
28:42What we would say unacceptable
28:44To be managed and to be stymied
28:47to the extent that we can look at Tobago again as a place that
28:51We can go and we can feel comfortable and we can leave our windows open and our doors open and
28:56We could traverse the island and leave our cars parked and you know, there's it is without fear
29:01so
29:03Yes, it will take a tremendous amount of support from members of the public. It will take a tremendous
29:09policing effort
29:10But based on what we have seen previously and how the Tobago public usually responds
29:17We are confident that with their support we will be able to do it. All right
29:20Thanks a lot. We'll continue this discussion more after this break. Stay with us
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31:12August 25th
31:17Welcome back to beyond the tape. I'm your host mark beside of course sitting
31:20Or standing rather next to me is acting inspector ishmael pitt from the northern north division
31:27Um, so we're going to go quickly to our first
31:31Video, it's in the santa rosaria prom rose to be exact this morning. Yes. We just walk us through what transpired here
31:38Right, so what we are seeing here is a footage of what took place some time ago and the video is time stamped
31:45and persons in the santa rosa
31:47area, they were very concerned as to
31:50this person
31:51who was continuously walking the streets in the wee hours of the morning and
31:57He could have been seen with a large object in his hand resembling that of a firearm
32:03So the response of the pinto police and the supporting teams it was very swift and we are
32:11We are somewhat pleased at this point in time and i'm saying somewhat because the offender is still at large
32:17But we are somewhat pleased to report to the members of the public
32:22specifically those in the santa rosa area that we were able to recover the
32:26The object and i'm saying the object
32:29Well, it's a large object because having recovered the object we recognize that it is not it it is not a firearm
32:37um
32:38It appears to be but it is not a firearm, right?
32:42It it is and it looks menacing and it looks the part and anyone seeing something like this would be
32:48concerned but it is not a firearm and
32:52We also have information regarding the individual
32:55who may have
32:57been in possession of it, so i'll just
33:00Simply state that you know, um
33:03Mental mental illness. It's a real state
33:06With a fake firearm. I mean, I know I know for some people who can't tell the difference
33:11Between a fake firearm and a real farm because of appearance and so on. Yes, I know
33:16Law enforcement and by extension some people might be able to tell the difference between a fake
33:21firearm and a real fire
33:24Well, the reality is mark we are only able to state the difference when we have the object in our hands and it is definitely
33:33uh
33:34volatile situation
33:36having to
33:38Now make that split decision or split second decision
33:42If you are to observe someone pointing something like that at you
33:46at first glance
33:47It's going to appear
33:49That the person is with a firearm, especially if their lighting is poor. I mean exactly defending the body exactly
33:55As you said a split second decision
33:57That's right or not that person is armed and I was listening to this podcast recently with a secret service agent
34:04Yeah, greek, of course retired
34:06And she remembered going down the street and she saw this young boy ran out of a store
34:11Clutching his his coat and running and she and her partner followed him. Yes
34:16and
34:17He fell somewhere in the alleyway and they were telling him drop it drop it
34:22He was about 16 years of age, right?
34:24And he was clutching this under his trench coat. He said drop it. So they drew their firearms
34:30They didn't know what to expect. Yes, and then he slowly pulled out a loaf of bread and he dropped it on the ground
34:36And she said to him, you know, I could have shot you when they held him and arrested him
34:41So as I said, it's about that split second decision and of course
34:45People being able to you know, such as the pre-decommand of law enforcement and sometimes
34:51The call is not always the right one, but sometimes you have to make that call based on your intuition, of course
34:56of course
34:58So the next video is a little bit disturbing. Of course. It was in the samu village area
35:03Acting as people you take us through it
35:07Yes, so this video was circulated
35:14What are you doing here
35:44Oh
35:47This is
35:49Muslim
36:14Yes, uh disturbing scenes as you quite rightfully put it
36:18But at this point in time we are asking
36:21The person who was clearly the victim in this incident to come forward
36:27So far, no one has come forward and made a report
36:30We have gone so far with our investigations, but we need for that person to come forward and please provide us
36:38With the necessary for us to bring that person to account it is important and our investigation
36:44Would be definitely hinged on the support of the victim in this particular instance
36:48I know in this particular instance if you could correct me if i'm wrong
36:52Following this video. I think within 24 hours after that or thereabouts
36:57It was actually a double murder in that set area location
37:01Where there was actually footage where the perpetrators left the scene just as the police jeep was driving in the other direction
37:09And two people were actually shot and killed
37:11And it is alleged that
37:14the individual in that
37:16video was
37:17the attacker
37:19Was allegedly one of the persons that they actually came for but
37:23Yes, you you are indeed correct. Um
37:26Sometime after this video circulated there was a double murder in the area
37:32uh
37:33Regarding the police vehicle. There was a police vehicle on the pbr
37:37This incident happened within the village itself. However
37:40You were able to see the police vehicle in the background
37:43uh
37:45We also received certain information regarding the possible motive
37:49Yeah, but um at this point in time it is still a bit premature. Yes, of course. So so again
37:55um, it is of paramount importance that the
37:59Individual who is clearly seen as a victim
38:01Come forward so that we are able now to continue our investigation
38:06Okay, yes people I know that your area
38:10Is considered right now as we speak one of the hottest areas in trinidad
38:15And we we just look at the lines of demarcation. You have arima. You have la hoqueta you have carapu
38:20You have maloney komoto and so on and we there was uh
38:24I I think in the last couple of months an article about arima and that venver has been one of the most violent
38:31um, and I know it's
38:33Challenge a lot of challenges for the officers of that division and by extension other officers in other divisions
38:40um
38:41Let's just start with
38:43The situation at dump road where there was a couple of homicides in the last six to eight weeks
38:49Which even culminated I understand where there's some armed
38:54men
38:55And and a religious and religious claiming to be of a religious organization
38:59Coming up where the police had gone. There was a shooting the night before
39:04Uh involving a young lady, I believe who had lost her life
39:07Yes, and it is alleged they came up and the police were blocked from doing their work and so on
39:12and
39:13Following which there was another incident maybe about 48 hours after that this walk us through
39:19What is he? What are you all currently? We can all take the kindest time in that activity there
39:25in in in the dump road area
39:27In the dump road area
39:29And has anybody been held for any of the recent homicides then what is the challenges posed?
39:34I guess in trying to apprehend these suspects. Yeah, permit me before I go specifically to
39:41The larry treat area commonly called dump road
39:44to speak towards what is happening in arima generally and
39:49within northern north arima is the
39:52Number one station regarding the demands for policing
39:56And for that reason a tremendous amount of resources and effort has been pumped into arima
40:02I am pleased to say at this point in time that arima
40:05Is experiencing less murders for the same period last year and significantly. So
40:12So
40:13We have been able to respond in an appropriate way regarding the management of crime in arima
40:19And it is not just a policing effort
40:22We must say that also the members of the community have bought into the idea of partnership
40:27And they have been able now to provide that level of support that is required to bring arima to the level that it is
40:33Now now we are not where we would want to be but we are not where we used to be. So, uh
40:40Hats off again to my senior superintendent. Mr. Montrichard my superintendent. Mr. Guelmo
40:46Uh the inspector who's in charge of arima, mr. Lewis inspector maskell, so it's a tremendous team effort
40:53Towards the the success and we don't want to speak too early regarding what it is happening in arima, but it's still
41:01Definitely it is as I said
41:03We are not where we would want to be but we are not where we used to be regarding arima
41:07What can the public do before we go to break?
41:11to help the police
41:13In this instance just very briefly, right so so you spoke to uh the dump road and um
41:20There has been some challenges in the dump road
41:23And for that reason we have had the community walkabouts to get that type of engagement from the persons within the community
41:31I can tell you that
41:32this afternoon we have a targeted walkabout that is um carded and
41:38We expect again that persons would reach out to us in a manner that we'll be able to transform whatever information and it's not always towards
41:47Whatever might be happening from a criminal lens, but also regarding social issues that give more influence. We might be able to impact
41:54All right, great
41:55Sorry about that. So we'll take a short break and we'll be right back
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43:31season four
43:39You
43:49Welcome back to the on the tape, of course, I want to encourage callers to calling at six two three one seven one one extensions
43:58one nine nine two
43:59one nine nine three and one nine nine seven
44:03Tobago you're also included in that
44:05So, please call we want to hear from you as we continue our discussion
44:09And one of the things of course we want to talk about in a very very general sense
44:14Uh is some of the solutions that can be offered
44:18To assist
44:20the police
44:22um
44:23With the public's engagement. Yeah, and what they can do to play their part
44:28So that we don't just center or blame
44:31Or or saying that the police all you work is on the police or other other factions
44:35But the public also has a critical role to play the citizenry
44:40if we are to be
44:41You know the watchdogs to assist our brothers and our sisters. Yes
44:46Yeah
44:48Quickly before I go there. Um, I I must mention. Uh, mr. Subero our regional acp and
44:54Um
44:55Why his name is so important at this point in time outside of the the the protocol is that
45:03He has been able to bring the divisions together the divisions that he's responsible for so that we are able to impact
45:11Crimes and criminality that might even transcend the devarian divisions
45:16So for that reason the divisions work together as a team and we have been seeing the successes regarding that
45:22Uh
45:23Mark, you have been an investigative journalist for quite some time
45:28And and your your name
45:31Could be that at this point in time. If you would argue that your name is not a household name
45:36and
45:41We are asking from a
45:44ttps lens give me your background and
45:48What you have been able to unearth because you have dealt with a lot of sensitive investigation and for that reason we know that
45:54you had to engage persons in the public domain who had
45:58information knowledge and and and
46:01Sometimes even direct part of playing what what is happening and also they may even have
46:08the the solutions so we are asking you as a as as
46:13a person who
46:14Have also been engaged towards
46:18What is happening from a crime perspective?
46:21What could you recommend to the ttps?
46:26Other than all we have
46:28advanced and
46:30All initiatives that we have undertaken. I'm certain that mark
46:36Give me your your tenure
46:39There's something there's something that you can be able to advance that we might be able to say yes
46:44We can look at it with some deep consideration and apply to our policing. Well, that's probably one of the hardest questions
46:49I've been asked in my life
46:51You asked me to think about something outside the box, which is which is which is fair. Um, but let me just say I think
47:00For anything to germinate
47:02There must be trust
47:04and I mean trust not just
47:07Police service but trust in yourself and trust in others outside of the police service. Yeah
47:14um if if a conversation of that nature
47:17Can spread so that people could could have that trust in one another for certain things
47:24right
47:25We see we know we all know and the police also knows
47:30Who are the the nefarious elements operating?
47:33And they have friends that know what they do they have
47:37mothers and fathers and sisters
47:40that know what they do and
47:42some might become enriched by it, but I I think that
47:47If something is wrong whether the person
47:52Lives in your house or not
47:54um, because you wouldn't like to see
47:57if if something happened to one of your
48:00relatives
48:01God forbid in your household
48:04You will be enriched
48:06but think about one of your
48:08people in your house or going into another house and doing what
48:11Something happened at your house similarly. That's for example a house invasion. Yeah where you feel the most safest in your home
48:19right and
48:21You feel so violated
48:23You're beaten you're tied
48:26You know
48:27You're verbally abused
48:29um
48:30And I I paramount trust is paramount if we are to as a society
48:37Start making that definitive change towards
48:42Stymieing crime and i'm talking about from the smallest thing to the largest
48:48If we are able to do that
48:50in some measure
48:51It would never happen overnight. We know that yeah, but if we are if we as a serious citizens in this country
48:58um
48:59And and I said I say this with the utmost respect to everybody that
49:04finding
49:05People you can trust
49:07Not just police officers and I know people have issues with police officers. They don't know who to trust. Yeah
49:14How do we break that barrier down?
49:16Before we go into the circle of police. We have to have a trust within
49:21a circle of them within
49:23Fierce friends or relatives in that circle and then that emanate out emanates outward
49:29to
49:30Going to somebody that you believe
49:33Or you know of a period of time just as we talk about the ph driver
49:36Yes that I feel that I have noticed man working ph for 20 years and I can sit in his car and reach home safely
49:42every day yet
49:44So it is that kind of trust that people need
49:48to see
49:50emanating
49:51From the community outward
49:53so that when you
49:55approach a police officer
49:58You can say with conviction
50:01That my information will go somewhere. Yes that it it will
50:06He will act on it. And I think that is the fear of a lot of people
50:10Will the information I'll be given
50:12on two on two on two
50:14Platforms here. Yeah, would it be used upon to act against this individual or used against me?
50:22To threaten me in some nature because we don't know but as I said trust is a paramount thing
50:27Going forward and how we solve crime
50:31That is just my opinion people might everybody will have different opinions. I think that is the cornerstone to starting
50:38That trust must be
50:40Solid yeah, and and I couldn't agree with you more
50:44Um, you know, we have recognized that trust and confidence is of paramount importance
50:50It enhances police legitimacy. So to speak and you know hearing it coming from you. It just further
50:59Concretizes the whole aspect for
51:02persons to have that level of trust in the police service, but
51:08That that trust is such a a fragile type of uh
51:15That a fragile type of um, how how could we describe it?
51:21I know it's it's it's very um, it's tricky. It's uh, it's you know, it's a 50 50
51:26You walk a very thin line, you know, like my job is I interact with police and I also interact with
51:33The other side as well in terms of information. Yes, right
51:37And I have to have that they have that trust in me and you will have that trust in me
51:41Yes, and I never betray any any side. Yeah, I said I get information from x I get information from y
51:48How does that equate?
51:50I call the police they give me some information and you correlate your story based on
51:55A number of sources not just police but others as well to help solidify
52:00That the story you're hearing from the police. Is it true? Yeah, there are some people in the underworld. Yeah, it's true
52:05Right, so you don't talk to one person you talk to a number of people to get a sense of
52:10Is it true? Yes. Yes. So correct and the reason why I label it as as as fragile
52:17uh, it's because
52:18Sometimes the same person who may have given you information
52:23Today
52:25You may have to ticket them tomorrow
52:28and
52:29Just being give them a ticket
52:31Can erode the relationship?
52:35That we had yesterday
52:37and going forward
52:39That person now may have a particular view of the organization
52:44so
52:45I am saying that to say this that not always the issue of trust is one that
52:51is
52:53of a nature of persons breaching confidence or not being able to follow up on
53:00call for services or reports
53:03On issues that are within our remit to treat with it could also be
53:09very well
53:10based on the nature
53:12of
53:13policing
53:14That at times we need to make tough decisions that might impact
53:18Even the most law-abiding of citizens and they may feel that you know, they may have been
53:25Uh treated a particular way because there are persons who believe
53:29I understand
53:31Trust this. Yeah, trust that we have to take a break. We'll be right back after this
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55:44So
55:51Welcome back to beyond the tape and I just before we wrap up. I want to give acting inspector
55:56Sorry asp ishmael pitt the final say in this conversation that has been going
56:01You know quite well, and we've been going over
56:06Yes, so so again
56:08We take your recommendation mark regarding trust
56:11And we know that trust is something that we must build and we must continue to build
56:17In order to get the type of buying and support information and what have you from members of the community and we are seeing as well
56:24that uh considering that
56:26we know that the organization is
56:30It has so many different type of personalities
56:33That we have put systems in place for persons to be able to pass on information
56:37Outside of the initial human contact so we have five five five. We have 800 tips
56:46These are anonymous means by which persons who have information they can provide that information to us
56:53You have crime stoppers who have been able to provide
56:56That level of reward for persons who have brought information and we we are able to work on that information and tangibles are derived from it
57:04so
57:06Yes, we understand that
57:08persons may have some
57:10Reservations regarding sometimes going to a police officer going into a police station to pass on information
57:16So we have provided other means by which persons can communicate but you are spot on with that
57:21And we know that is something that we will continue to work on. All right
57:24I appreciate your time. And of course, we are still waiting on the commissioner of police. Miss
57:30Christopher to grace us with her presence and we hope that
57:34She will at some point come out to the program and speak just as eloquently as other officers
57:39The news is up next
57:41TV6 news and of course tomorrow we are on at 5 50 p.m. So
57:46See you tomorrow
57:54Foreign
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