00:00This week on Powerhouse, we're sitting down with Abdel Khawatmi to get under the hood of what actually drives production
00:05in today's mortgage market.
00:07From his six C's of conversion tracking to the AI-driven systems behind his daily content and seven-day clear
00:13-to-close stories,
00:14Abdel shares the moves leadership, LOs, and agents need to be making in order to win in the next cycle.
00:31Right. Well, so, okay, this is what I was going to ask you this, because this doesn't mean you're just,
00:34you're doing so much across the board, but you're also saying we, right?
00:37So I'm curious as to know, what do you, at first it was with you, well, let's just start with
00:43content, right?
00:43I was curious about what your content system looks like behind the scenes.
00:48And I want to know what is, who does what, what's automated, and what other, do you have like no
00:55-goes that you refuse to delegate?
00:57Because it seems like, I mean, you have a team, you have all these systems in place, but you're still,
01:02you also have your hands in the, in the, in the dirt, which in a good way, I think is
01:07a very good thing.
01:08But like, where are your lines on, this is delegation, this is something I'll never delegate, I'm going to own
01:13this entirely, and then this is like, it kind of comes and goes.
01:16I will never delegate client communication and referral partner communication, right?
01:22So our processes, right, my, my operations manager and process has been with me since my career, almost eight years.
01:31So, so I will never have like her update the realtor, right?
01:37For example, that's me, dude.
01:40Like, like the number one complaint that I get from real estate agents is I can't hear from the loan
01:45officer, right?
01:46Or I don't know what's happening or something like that, right?
01:49Now, when a file gets approved and a client comes to me and says, hey, what docs am I missing?
01:57I'm going to say, honestly, I would, I know what you're missing, but I need Pam to be able to
02:03have that conversation with you, right?
02:05Because that's her world, right?
02:07She is the one that is responsible to get the documents.
02:10She is the one that is like, we're, we're big, like jump on Zoom, right?
02:14Oh, you sent the statements, you sent it wrong just once.
02:17Hey, do me a favor, jump on Zoom, go to lomentor.com.
02:20It reroutes immediately to our office Zoom.
02:22Our team is on from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m.
02:24There's always at least three admins on there, three virtual assistants, a business development manager, a growth strategy manager, sales
02:31manager, and ops.
02:33There's four managers that we have, and my job is to just speak, right?
02:39Speak, come up with various different ideas, right?
02:41Like we ran into Notion the other day.
02:43Something came up, right?
02:44And I saw it, and I'm like, this is cool.
02:46I'm not going to make the mistake of falling down the rabbit hole.
02:49I'm going to send it to the growth strategy team, and they're the ones that are going to come, articulate
02:54it, and then send me back the pros and cons as to what we have in place now in terms
02:58of data, in terms of summary, and does it make sense to introduce this into our ecosystem now?
03:03One of the things that I wanted to ask you that I really appreciate, that's one of the big, not
03:10necessarily the challenges, but one of the obstacles that we try to solve for at Housing Wire is the struggle
03:17of macro versus micro when it comes to market analysis.
03:22And helping our audience, helping professionals bridge that gap between knowing your local – the relevance of knowing national data
03:33and the importance of knowing your local data.
03:37And then being able to translate from one to the other because I was – the national data is not
03:42that hyper – as hyper-important to a local buyer, but that's what the – the local news doesn't do
03:50stories about the local housing market.
03:52So they're reading or they're watching information about the market at large, and then they go in with expectations to
03:59either a realtor or an LO, and you know how well those don't necessarily correlate.
04:05And so – but you lead with this hyper-local data and analysis on a very regular basis.
04:11You were just speaking to that a few minutes ago.
04:12So one, like, did you start that all along?
04:17Did you start your business doing like that?
04:19Or – and if not, did you notice a shift in your conversion, your relationships, and everything once you started
04:26doing hyper-local data?
04:28100% the shift once I started doing the data.
04:31I did not start like that, right?
04:32If you see some of my videos in the beginning, it's freaking hilarious.
04:36One, I'm in a suit.
04:37You can't pay me now a million dollars to be in a suit unless we're in D.C., right?
04:41I was going to say, you look good, man.
04:43You look sharp.
04:43Yeah.
04:44I'm saying, unless we're in D.C., but I'm normally in a cool – it's funny.
04:48I actually wore this same jersey on the T-Lop pod, so it's funny that you brought it up.
04:53But I have, like, freaking nine jerseys like these from football, basketball, baseball.
05:01So the brand always was something that you unapologetically couldn't get away from it, right?
05:08It was there.
05:08The data side, I think, was just the key part that I wanted to make sure that it was put
05:15in front of you.
05:17And, you know, I've got, again, my bachelor's in political science.
05:20I've got my master's in risk and compliance, right, from Montclair State.
05:23So I was always kind of like a data geek, but it also depended on the consumer, too, right?
05:28Like, did they understand what we're looking for?
05:31Did they get an idea of what it is?
05:34And sometimes it's too much, right?
05:36I'll be honest.
05:37Like, sometimes I got to understand my audience from the initial conversation.
05:41Within a good 15 seconds, I can understand, is this somebody that needs guidance?
05:46If it is, then go to gotmortagesuniversity.com.
05:49That's a website that we built and coded, and the consumer logs on.
05:54And there is a plethora of resources, documents, explanations on closing costs, appraisal, title, different mortgage programs that I control.
06:05I don't want to push you to chat, especially now.
06:09I don't know if you heard.
06:11Chat now is going to start doing ads internally, right?
06:15And it looks like financial services is still not approved yet, or you have to go through a little bit
06:22of a regimented process, from my understanding, which sucks, too, because, like, Google LSA, Google Local Service Ads, right?
06:30We can't do for mortgages.
06:32But my team builds it for real estate agents.
06:34So we will actually build your Google Local Service Ads and stuff.
06:37So this is my thought, and you tell me what you think, right?
06:41The traditional marketing company, you're kind of screwed, right?
06:46Like, if you're only thinking about SEO, or you're only building, like, your websites, and your crawlability is not there,
06:54where AI can't pull you from written blogs daily to this stuff, to that stuff, you're screwed, dude.
06:59And I have that conversation all the time with my marketing partners, right, who own hyper-local marketing partners, and
07:06I'm teaching them about AEO, GEO, and SEO, right?
07:11I'm teaching them, hey, AEO, it's to answer questions.
07:15GEO is to get found.
07:18SEO is to search, right?
07:21But the data part was huge, because now we're taking that same stuff, we pull it, I'll be completely honest,
07:28you know me, I'm an open playbook, we go to MBS Highways newsletter, Barry and his team post it every
07:34Monday, right?
07:35So we take it, we brand it, right, to us, we pull the data, there's a cheesy little cover photo,
07:41I'll have to send you one off record, because I'd love your insight.
07:45We drop it, then we do our video, right, where I talk about it, the team will then create, again,
07:53going back to Notebook LM, they'll create the slide deck, they'll create an infograph, and then they'll simultaneously do that
07:58video overview market summary.
08:01The best part about it is they're doing it by themselves, I'm not involved in anything, the only time I'm
08:06involved is when I shoot my quick four or five minute market update.
08:10And sometimes I'll be like, dude, I'm slammed, I can't, do me a favor and just take out the part
08:15where I speak and just put the AI video summary in place, done, it's there.
08:19And, and, yeah, I feel like there's a, there's this, this kind of shift between like old school marketing, where
08:27it was white label stuff.
08:28And then over the last, I don't know, eight years, eight or 10 years or so, there was a shift
08:31to like digital, but it was basically like digital white labeling to where it's not like the quote unquote personalization
08:37was there, but it really, but it really was, it was just a few like data boxes to put your
08:41new, you know, put your headshot and maybe a couple extra bullet points and compliance or clear something.
08:45But now you don't really have, like you, you either, you have to, you really need to embrace, which is,
08:50it's like this juxtaposition to where there is so, so much automation available.
08:56And, and, and at the same time, it forces you to be unique, which is what, ultimately that's what your
09:02value prop is anyway, assuming that your skills are the same as, you know, your competitor down the road.
09:07It's like, what is, what is, what is, you know, what is unique about you?
09:11What differentiates you from your competitors?
09:12It's if you have the same level of skills and the same competency, same rate, same products, it's you.
09:17And you have to really, you have to, you, now you are for the, if you're going to exist in
09:23the next five or 10 years, you're going to have to learn how to use the tools that will, that
09:28will, that will best showcase and platform your unique, your uniqueness to, to the market.
09:35Yeah, so I always say, you want loan officer, you want to show me how good you are, show me
09:41the proof, P-R-O-O-F, right?
09:44And you know me, I'm an acronym guy.
09:46So P is prospecting, show me your prospecting strategy.
09:50R is resilience, show me how good are you and get kicked in the teeth.
09:54And are you one to scour away or are you one to just not be reactive, but proactive, right?
10:00The O is operational efficiency, right?
10:03The other O is omnipresence.
10:05So can people find you everywhere?
10:08And the last one, and I think the most important one, F, is just fundings, like tell me your closings,
10:14right?
10:14And if you really break it down that way in any way, you know, prospect, resilience, operations, omnipresence, and then
10:23the F being the fundings, right?
10:25You can answer that to me very quickly and confidently.
10:29And it really, in my opinion, it translates into any business, right?
10:32You mentioned the mastermind that we want.
10:34I want it every other Thursday, the same videographer, and it's the same day as the podcast, too.
10:39So people are coming to shoot the pod in one side of the office, and then we have a whole
10:42other side.
10:43But I always, whenever we get office space, I always get two massive suites, and they have to be adjacent
10:48to each other's because I always like to open everything out.
10:51So then now it's, and I do it like Wolf of Wall Street, open layout, no cheesy bullpen, high gray
10:59old stuff that makes you want to sleep.
11:01Nobody has their own little private office, right?
11:05It's all open.
11:06If you want to meet with a client, go to the conference room.
11:08If you want somewhere quiet, there's one small office, but it's also got all the chotskis and stuff, right, where
11:13we have so much crap going on.
11:16And then we kind of just take it from there.
11:18So you had mentioned a couple times about just you do so much for your, for partners, and specifically your
11:26agents.
11:26And I'm curious to know what, I got a couple questions around that.
11:29What does that partnership look like with you on a month-to-month basis?
11:34Are you at a point where you're the one that's actually kind of calling or deciding what agent you're going
11:44to take on versus not take on?
11:47How do you think through that?
11:48Talk to me about those relationships.
11:50Such a great question, right?
11:5133% of my business last year came from realtors, which is actually pretty low in our industry, right?
11:58When I say came, obviously every deal had a realtor on the purchase side, but we also generate our own
12:04lead flow and all that stuff, right?
12:06But I still prospect myself too, right?
12:09Like I'm still sitting there traditionally old school printing out a list of real estate agents and then basically working
12:16my magic from there, right?
12:17And I always say, are they, are they adaptable, right?
12:22Or are they doing the same cheesy old stuff that they've been doing for quite some time?
12:25And social media.
12:26Let me ask you a question.
12:27Can you feel that?
12:27Can you feel, so I'm assuming it's like it starts with a phone call or, I mean, the old school,
12:31right?
12:31Phone calls, office visit or whatever.
12:33Can you suss that out through the course of one conversation on whether or not this person is going to
12:40be worth taking the next step with?
12:43Just from how you answer your phone, the reality of it, right?
12:47Like when we place an offer out, right?
12:49With my partners, right?
12:52It's kind of like mandatory.
12:53You have to CC me.
12:54And the ones that don't, the fucking offer doesn't get accepted.
12:57The ones that do, I'm a shock.
12:59I'm like, dude, put me on the offer.
13:00So immediately if I call you and I'm like, it's, all right, Zeb's the listing agent.
13:04Cool.
13:04All right.
13:05Let me do my research.
13:06Before I call Zeb, I'm going to model match him and I'm going to find out, right?
13:10Is he a stranger to the area the house is being listed in?
13:14Or is he a beast in the area?
13:16And now is he potentially a team leader that I can have the conversation and articulate the conversation now?
13:22Because Zeb being a beast listing agent also likely has a team under him who take buyers.
13:28Or also does a bunch of open houses and needs loan officers, which I actually still sometimes go to open
13:34houses, right?
13:35I stopped for a while because I thought I was too good for it.
13:37Fuck that.
13:38I'm the greatest relationships with agents when I'm actually going to the open houses, right?
13:44But we certainly, just from, like I said, how you answer your phone, right?
13:48Where I pick up my phone and it's good afternoon.
13:50This is a doubt, right?
13:52Some people go pick up the phone.
13:53Hello?
13:54Oh, Jesus.
13:55Or just I ask, hey, is this Zeb?
13:58Yes.
13:58Who is this?
13:59And you're like, oh, man.
14:00I got to be like, you know what I mean?
14:02Like rather than conversational or, hey, you know, my client just placed an offer for 123 Main Street.
14:06So congratulations on your listing, man.
14:08I also saw you just closed one about two miles away at 456 Main Street.
14:12Dude, you're an absolute beast.
14:13Hey, listen, I want to put just a voice and just let you know clients' income, assets, and employment has
14:21all been verified.
14:21We've got a DU automated approval.
14:23If you have any questions, please feel free to give me a call.
14:25I absolutely look forward to working with you.
14:27And nevertheless, whether you take our offer or not, I wish you the best of luck.
14:31Let me ask you something.
14:32That makes total sense.
14:33And you're right.
14:35You said 33% came from your referral partners.
14:38Initiated from a realtor, yep.
14:40Yeah, which is pretty – that is – I mean, for this industry, that is relatively low.
14:46How do you – I've seen – there are two answers, but I've seen it in practice really work out
14:52in three ways.
14:52When you talk – when you ask originators who their customer is, most people will say that it's the customer,
15:00the home buyer,
15:01which makes sense.
15:05Others in practice will say it's the home buyer, but they act like it, so they treat it like the
15:10realtor is their customer.
15:12And then there's a third who I've gotten to know him over the years.
15:15I like him a lot, Matt Weaver.
15:16He's one of the top producers of the country.
15:19He's top in Florida for I don't know how many years in a row.
15:21And he's open – real estate agents.
15:24Agents are my customer.
15:25And it's kind of a trickle-down effect of me treating the agent so well that the customer gets this
15:31great experience.
15:33Where do you land?
15:35Are you – are realtors – do you see them as your primary customer?
15:39Do you see the home buyer as your primary customer?
15:40I always say I have three partners that I need to commit myself to, right, which is my loan officers,
15:48my real estate agents, and my consumers, right?
15:52And frankly, it's in that order, right?
15:55My loan officers, right?
15:56My sole role is to build you a streamlined, move-in, key-ready process for you to work on.
16:04And it's constantly going to be innovated and evolved, right?
16:09Of course, real estate agents because I keep building out, right, SOPs for them, our admins making phone calls for
16:16them, our AIs diving in and following up for them with text messaging, building in all those metrics, helping them
16:22train, doing consistent stuff like that, right?
16:25That's my role because – you said it earlier, right?
16:28Everybody's got the same product, right?
16:29Everybody's got FHA, VA, USDA, conventional, non-QM, investors, whatever.
16:34The only difference maker is how consistent am I going to be in actually giving a shit about your business,
16:41right?
16:41Am I going to truly show you that I'm not just looking at you as a dollar figure?
16:46I actually have a vested interest, and we always build this culture around that referral partner, right?
16:52We do an event.
16:54I call it Glow Glam.
16:55Glow Glam and got mortgages.
16:56We did one for one of my loan officers.
16:58Was it Glow?
16:59Is it Glow?
17:00Glow Glam and got mortgages.
17:02So it's actually where we rent out a nail salon, and we're inviting – tomorrow, I think, my loan's got
17:08like 35 realtors.
17:10So 35 realtors come, and they get free mani-pedis, right?
17:1535 agents is a pretty strong turnout in the middle of the damn day on a Tuesday, right?
17:22And you have six of my LO sponsors, right?
17:26Title, insurance, prospector, all that stuff, right?
17:29But you build that cool culture, right?
17:31Now on the East Coast, it's hot as shit right now, right?
17:34So we work in the office until roughly about 1 o'clock, 2 o'clock, and then everybody comes to
17:39my house, right?
17:40And we all work from the backyard.
17:41I've got a pretty sweet setup.
17:43We've got a nice outdoor kitchen, frankly, beer on tap, and we're all working.
17:48And so now realtors want to come because they're like, yeah, I heard you guys are all calling.
17:53And it's great because you've got people basically – I've got a pretty big backyard where people are like –
17:58when I'm on the phone, I walk, right?
18:01I don't know if you're like me, right?
18:04Every single time I talk to a client, and then if they're like – we're talking about, oh, what's my
18:07month of pay?
18:08I'm like, fuck, hold on one second.
18:09Let me get back by because I'm walking.
18:13But then truly, obviously, the consumer experience, right?
18:16Same thing.
18:16And when we issue a pre-approval, I was going to share earlier, we issue a pre-approval.
18:20We're using Housing Link, right?
18:22Scott and his team got a pretty dope – I call it boarding pass, but basically a buyer pass where
18:28you could download your pre-approval onto your Apple Wallet, which has been super, super cool because I think it's
18:33the coolest thing ever.
18:34Because how many people ask you, oh, I can't find my pre-approval?
18:36Oh, yeah, you can.
18:37It's in your Apple Wallet or Google Wallet, right?
18:41And then when we're calling the agent, too, on behalf of the consumer, when we finish – and I don't
18:46do this every time.
18:47I'd be lying.
18:48But a good majority of the time, maybe like 90% of the times, we're doing a custom video after
18:52with the housing link.
18:54And my team is actually putting all the contracts in there with the addendums, the contract, the pre-approval.
19:01We actually run a real estate report card, right, from MBS Highway.
19:07And then we do a cost of waiting, and that's like my favorite one, where, hey, if you don't buy
19:11this house right now, it's going to cost you X.
19:13So whether interest rate is a conversation or something is a conversation, and then we kind of take it from
19:17there.
19:18Right.
19:19Interesting.
19:20Okay, so I'm in a tough spot right now.
19:21We only got a few minutes left, and I've got – we haven't even touched on half of what I
19:26wanted to talk to you about.
19:29So I'm going to have to get you back on to talk about the other stuff.
19:34I had some questions on the relationship between originators and corporate and leadership and insights from where you kind of
19:40sit at this crossroads.
19:42But that's going to be our next conversation.
19:45Let me leave you with this.
19:46You're hyper local, but you're so engaged and helping so many people.
19:53You're growing so many L's.
19:53Where do you see yourself in the next 5, 10 years?
19:56Are you looking to expand your blueprint, open up more branches, get out of the tri-state area?
20:04Yeah, absolutely.
20:05So we're also invested in several other branches too, internally within PRMG, helping them out from a coaching standpoint, mentorship
20:12standpoint, and stuff like that.
20:14Actually, two of our – the owner's son and then the student price president's son are under our ecosystem in
20:20terms of systems and automations and stuff.
20:21But, yeah, truly, it's continuing to build a system, as I said earlier, if you're a producing branch manager and
20:31you just run solo, right?
20:34Instead of you going to, frankly, the broker shop, which you might get paid more, right?
20:40But you relinquish all of the potential systems, right, which for some people works, for some people doesn't, right?
20:47For me, I'm not greedy.
20:48So I'm willing to only take two slices of the pie, right?
20:52And you keep six.
20:53But I want to see you grow.
20:55And then just like on the flip side, if you're a producing branch manager but you're stuck, right, because you
21:01don't know if you have to get back in the field or if you are in the field and you
21:05don't want to have to train your team.
21:06We do weekly sales huddles with our team, 9 a.m. every single time.
21:10And, you know, training that and building those people into that ecosystem and, frankly, not have to be stuck having
21:16to constantly put those things together, right?
21:18Those are all the important things that, you know, we look to put together and then just kind of take
21:23it from there.
21:24One more question from you.
21:25Being a Jersey guy, how do you feel about the Knicks right now?
21:27Bro, you have – I was going to wear my Knick jersey too.
21:30I made – I got to send you a picture.
21:31We made like a cool – got Mortage's Gorilla and then it's in a Knick thing.
21:37But, man, if we win today –
21:40So you're a primary Knicks fan or you're a default Knicks fan?
21:43A hundred percent.
21:45If we win today, dude, this city – the city is going to blow up.
21:50I've said this before.
21:52I was – go ahead.
21:53I'm sorry.
21:54Two more games, right?
21:55But if – I think if we win today, it's a pretty lock and they just got to – they
22:01got to keep the ball fast-paced, right?
22:02And if they do, they'll have that opportunity to do it.
22:05I had a – I'm default Spurs because I'm Texas.
22:09But I'm an hour from Houston, so I'm a Rockets fan.
22:11And then by default, they got to be Spurs just to – it's a state.
22:15But I was in – I was in New York whenever they went into overtime, that overtime victory to get
22:21into the finals.
22:21And I did not know this.
22:24I'd met up with a group of people that wanted to watch the game, and it was – didn't know
22:28it was a Knicks bar specifically.
22:30And that was the wildest thing I've seen in my life.
22:35I left right as the buzzer rang, and I don't know, about five minutes after the game was over, everyone
22:43just came pouring.
22:44It was like a horde of – it was like World War Z, like the zombies that just come pouring
22:48out.
22:48But it was – it was intense.
22:52It was intense.
22:53So we got to see them in the last series – or two series ago when they played Philly.
23:00And listen, I'm a diehard Knick fan, but I don't want to be sitting all the way at the top.
23:06And I also think my financial advisor will kick my ass if he sees me buying a $7,000 ticket.
23:11He's going to be like, dude, what's the fuck?
23:14But we have – same thing to that point too, dude.
23:16We have our realtors come to my house, and we're all watching the game.
23:20We're all watching the game.
23:21We're all having a good time.
23:23Like I said, especially now because it gets warmer.
23:27I've literally right now – we took out my shed.
23:29We're putting a shed bar.
23:31So now it's going to be a 10 by 8 shed, and then there's going to be a whole other
23:37extension tied to it.
23:39I don't know if you've ever seen those like where it's a shed and a bar basically built together.
23:43Now we can also go and plug and play, right?
23:47We'll just sit on top, sit at the bar, watch the game.
23:50And I like doing that, and we network like crazy.
23:54But come to my freaking house, dude.
23:56Like we have actually clients, some of my tight, tight clients I actually do a day in the summer where
24:02some clients bring their kids, right?
24:03And then they get to meet my kids, and then obviously the referral partners bring their kids.
24:07And please bring your significant other, especially my lone officers.
24:10Like please bring your significant other because I don't want them to just see the Abdel side where I'm screaming
24:16at you and saying you're a freaking idiot because you didn't lock and you knew that pricing was going to
24:20change.
24:20So I'm like because they're hearing us on Zoom.
24:22I'm like bring your significant other, man.
24:24Let them get to know each other, let them talk to my wife, right?
24:26She's dealt with my crap for 18 years.
24:29Let her let them know that, you know, it's typical that Abdel is going to, you know, bust your chops
24:36and he's going to be extremely regimented and no support.
24:39And we do that, and it really kind of helps everybody just, you know, again, have that camaraderie and that
24:44love.
24:44Dude, my LOs are helping each other too, and I even have to ask, and there's no vested interest, right?
24:48Like one guy's a stud on social, so the LOs go to him.
24:51And I always tell him, I'm like, hey, man, I appreciate you and everything you put together, but let's remember
24:57you're an originator and I want you to produce, right?
25:00We will eventually talk about future positions and future growth models, but I need you to originate, right?
25:06And if somebody wants, you know, stuff, they're going to have to give a rip, right, off of their stuff,
25:11right?
25:11Lose five basis points, give it to the LO.
25:13I don't care, but, and we try to keep that focus, right?
25:16Try to keep them focused on that mission.
25:18Know that, hey, this is, right, you obviously know the SWOT analysis, right?
25:22What's your strength, your weakness, your opportunities, and your threats?
25:24My job is to constantly go through it, right?
25:27We do monthly, the six Cs that we went over, and then just kind of really take it from there.
25:32All right.
25:33Well, Ben, I really appreciate you taking the time to speak with me, and we have to do this again
25:38very soon.
25:39There's a whole other topic that I wanted to dive in with you now.
25:43But I think what you're doing is fantastic and really inspiring and a perfect model for what, you know, a
25:49modern loan originator should be leaning into.
25:53So I look forward to talking to you again soon.
25:54Thanks, man.
25:55Appreciate you.
25:56All right.
25:57All right.
