- 19 hours ago
On today’s episode, Editor in Chief Sarah Wheeler talks with Jason Mitchell, founder of the Jason Mitchell Group, about recent lawsuits targeting the referral relationship between mortgage lenders and real estate agents.
Related to this episode:
Rocket Companies faces lawsuit over mortgage steering
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/rocket-mortgage-steering-lawsuit/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
To learn more about Trust & Will visit trustandwill.com
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate.
Related to this episode:
Rocket Companies faces lawsuit over mortgage steering
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/rocket-mortgage-steering-lawsuit/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
More info about HousingWire
https://lnk.bio/housingwire
To learn more about Trust & Will visit trustandwill.com
The HousingWire Daily podcast brings the full picture of the most compelling stories in the housing market reported across HousingWire. Each morning, listen to editor in chief Sarah Wheeler talk to leading industry voices and get a deeper look behind the scenes of the top mortgage and real estate.
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NewsTranscript
00:00.
00:10Welcome, everyone. My guest today is Jason Mitchell, founder of the Jason Mitchell Group.
00:15which is one of the fastest growing real estate brokerages in the U.S.
00:18To talk about recent lawsuits targeting the referral relationship between mortgage lenders and
00:23real estate agents and where he thinks the risk lies. First, I want to thank our sponsor.
00:28Trust and Will for making this episode possible. Jason, welcome back to the podcast.
00:33Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
00:35I appreciate you coming back on. I think it's funny because
00:38I wanted to talk to you about lawsuits and then we had to kind of define which lawsuits.
00:43Because there's so many like, well, you know, it has not gotten easy.
00:48Or smaller than number of lawsuits. Like it just feels like it's like those gremlins, right?
00:52They just
00:53are like, they're just multiplying. I also think people are getting numb to it.
00:58Yeah.
00:58You know, I mean, I think that's the reality. It's just one after another after another. And
01:03and I think people are starting to become numb to it. It's unfortunate because
01:08the reality is, is that this actually hurts our industry and
01:13mortgage and in real estate, because ultimately you got to defend yourself and that costs
01:18millions and millions of dollars and ultimately consumers pay the price of that, you know, because
01:23people want to extort and try to have a quick
01:28money grab. You know, it is unfortunate, but I guess it's the world we're in.
01:33Today, but I wish I wish it could just stop. I mean, every
01:38day, there's just a new lawsuit. It's just, it's not helping anybody.
01:41It's crazy. Okay. So
01:43the most recent one that I'd like to talk to you about first, or at least in a larger sense.
01:48is the class action lawsuit against rocket companies, right? Which alleges steering.
01:53It goes to specific real estate agents. It goes to home price inflation.
01:58How it hurts consumers, which is a, you know, uh, we will, we hear echoes of this.
02:03Uh, from the NAR commission lawsuits and actually, um, one of the loft, uh, loft.
02:08firms involved in this is the same one, um, at that national association of realtors lawsuits.
02:13So.
02:13So, you know, uh, this is a playbook they're very familiar with.
02:16So I know that, you know, you work with rock.
02:18It, right. Jason Mitchell companies, you guys are, uh, the preferred real estate group for
02:22rocket veterans.
02:23The, the trends United, New, new American funding, Zillow open door, Marisave a whole bunch.
02:26So this, this speaks.
02:28to that, but I know we're, we're going to be talking about it from kind of a higher level
02:31on like, what is, what is.
02:33What does the referral relationship look like?
02:35So when you saw this first off, what did you first think?
02:37Well, I think.
02:38I think it's a, it's a carbon copy of the CFPB lawsuit and.
02:44You know, I, I don't want to speak on behalf of rocket.
02:46That's not my place.
02:48Um, or any of my partners, but the troubling part is.
02:53None of my partners and I'm not their only partner by the.
02:58They have thousands of partners, but I can speak specifically for us in these partnerships.
03:03There is no requirement to send your client.
03:08To, to do anything in terms of making sure that your art.
03:13The people we send you close with us.
03:15There's no, and this isn't just rocket.
03:17This is.
03:18Any, this is all of the partners that we have.
03:21There's never any measurement or.
03:23Any, this is your indication of we want all of your mortgage business.
03:28And, and all of the stuff we send you, you have to close that with us.
03:31It just, it doesn't.
03:33If it did exist, I can tell you that the four years that were spent with the CFPB.
03:38They would have found that and, um, and if the question is, why is.
03:43The closing ratio in the 60, 70% when.
03:48When a lender refers out a consumer, the answer to that question is.
03:53Because they originated the consumer.
03:56The consumer has just.
03:58They would have to spend an hour on the phone with a loan officer getting all their information pre-calling them.
04:03And then pondering the question, do you have a real estate professional?
04:08And.
04:08If the consumer says no, and the, and the question is, would you like us to connect you with a trust.
04:13And if you have a trusted one that we know in your local market, well, that's the consumer's choice.
04:18But the closing ratio is because they've already done a lot of work.
04:22The consumer.
04:23It's like, why is it that the first real estate agent that shows up to the listing appointment.
04:28It gets the listing 78% of the time because they're first.
04:33And on the, on the side of the referral, what I.
04:38What I don't understand and what I can't, and what I just can't get.
04:43Is if you're going to look at the referral side of it as something that shouldn't occur.
04:48If the consumer requests to, to work with a realtor, because they don't.
04:53Have one.
04:55The alternative to not making.
04:58That suggestion means what, what it means is that 80%.
05:0380% of licensed real estate professionals last year, 80% of licensed.
05:08Real estate professionals last year sold less than two houses.
05:11So if, if that concerns.
05:13If the consumer goes out to find their own real estate agent, they have a four in five chance.
05:18Of finding somebody that's not an actual true professional.
05:22Now I'm not sure about.
05:23You Sarah, but if somebody can recommend me somebody.
05:28That's a true professional that's vetted and very good at what they do.
05:33I'll take that referral rather than me going to guess.
05:38I said online too, not just mortgage.
05:43I said online too, not just mortgage or real estate.
05:44Every industry works on referrals.
05:46Some way, somehow.
05:47I would rather.
05:48Get a referral for a doctor than to just find one on my own.
05:52I would rather get a referral.
05:53I would rather get a referral to a good CPA than go find one on my own.
05:56I would like to get a referral.
05:58When you talk about literally anything, a nanny, anything.
06:03On the referral side.
06:04And so for me, I look at this and say, wait a minute.
06:08Hold on a second.
06:09If this is helping a consumer have a better experience.
06:13And we know that these people are really good at what they do.
06:18On the top 5% or top 10% or top 1%.
06:21Well, that's a good thing.
06:23For consumers, if they go back to this referral fee.
06:28Collecting a referral fee where I think.
06:33Someone might take that is, well, the referral fee that you.
06:38Paid to the real estate entity that sent you that referral.
06:42Those monies.
06:43Those monies could be given to the consumer.
06:45So you're paying a middleman.
06:47And the reality.
06:48The reality is, is that's not true.
06:49And the reason that's not true.
06:52And why.
06:53That has no water to it.
06:56When you look at a buyer broker.
06:58If real estate agents that receive referrals.
07:02Are.
07:03Upcharging their commission.
07:04Their buyer broker commission.
07:06When they get referrals.
07:08Versus somebody that didn't have a referral applicable.
07:12Then you may.
07:13They may have a problem.
07:14But the reality is.
07:15Is.
07:15Not only do we not do that.
07:17And.
07:18And we have mandates on that.
07:20And it's obviously in our terms and conditions.
07:21That you can't call it.
07:23Gouge.
07:23Just because you may have to pay more.
07:26Real estate agents don't.
07:28If the standard buyer broker commission that we.
07:30That a real estate agent looks for is 3%.
07:33This is where this is where that doesn't hold water.
07:35If it's 3% when I get a referral.
07:38Is what my standard fee is.
07:39And 3% when I meet someone at an open house.
07:43Well then the delta of that actually is from my services.
07:47If it was.
07:48It's a world of.
07:49Well I charge 4.5% when I get a referral.
07:51But 3% when I don't.
07:53Yeah.
07:54That's gouging.
07:55That to me is a problem.
07:56But that's a real estate independent.
07:58Contractor problem.
07:59Not the problem that.
08:00The referring source sent to you.
08:03So I would hope that in our industry.
08:05And in our practices.
08:06And I can't speak for all real estate.
08:08Agents out there.
08:09But your services are your services.
08:11It doesn't matter the source.
08:13Your standard commission.
08:15That you charge on a buyer broker agreement.
08:18Is universal across the board.
08:20Now that can change.
08:21But what I'm saying is.
08:22You can't.
08:23Have agents that.
08:24You can't have real estate agents.
08:25That say I charge 5% when I get a referral.
08:28And then I charge 3% when I don't.
08:29I can tell you at JMG.
08:31It's not allowed to happen.
08:32We don't allow it to happen.
08:33And I can't speak for anybody else.
08:35But that's where I think.
08:36None of this referral fee has.
08:37Has.
08:38Weight to it.
08:38Because.
08:39I would venture to say.
08:40In almost every case.
08:42The standard buyer broker.
08:43Fee that a real estate professional charges.
08:44Is the same regardless.
08:46If it's self-generated or.
08:48Or sourced from a referral partner.
08:50Right.
08:50One of the things that I have a hard time with.
08:53When it.
08:53It comes to especially class action lawsuits.
08:54Because we know.
08:55First of all.
08:56It's not the.
08:57It's.
08:58It's not the people who are supposedly harmed.
09:00Who get that money.
09:01They get like.
09:02What.
09:02What.
09:03Sixteen dollars.
09:04Four dollars.
09:05Four cents.
09:05It's.
09:06It is.
09:07Absolutely.
09:07Absolutely.
09:08The lawyers who get rich through this.
09:09And.
09:10But.
09:10But here.
09:11If we're talking about.
09:12You know.
09:12It's.
09:13Consumer harm in some way.
09:15For me.
09:15A lot of times.
09:16I feel like it's.
09:16It's just treating the.
09:18Consumer like a baby.
09:19Like you're infantilizing.
09:20The consumer.
09:22If I'm sitting there.
09:23And I'm.
09:23Talking to you.
09:24Talking to somebody.
09:24As a.
09:26Mortgage loan officer.
09:27And I.
09:28Say do you know.
09:28Who do you recommend.
09:30I.
09:30I'm asking you.
09:31Who do you recommend.
09:32Because.
09:33I'm.
09:33I trust you.
09:34And I know that you.
09:35You might have a relationship with them.
09:36That might.
09:37You know.
09:37Whatever.
09:37I.
09:38I'm asking.
09:38I'm.
09:39Initiating.
09:40Listen.
09:40What you guys always say.
09:42When you send out great.
09:43Articles.
09:43Housing wires say.
09:44Go deeper.
09:45So let's go deeper on that Sarah.
09:48Every.
09:49Almost.
09:50Every transaction.
09:51Almost.
09:53Every transaction.
09:54In real estate.
09:55Or mortgage.
09:56Has a referral.
09:57In some way.
09:57Shape or form.
09:58Let me explain what I mean.
09:59If you're a retail loan officer.
10:01Right.
10:02Your job.
10:03Is to try to work with real estate professionals.
10:06To earn their trust.
10:08In their business.
10:09So.
10:10If you're a retail loan officer.
10:12And.
10:13And I.
10:13I find Sarah Wheeler.
10:15As a client.
10:15Who wants to buy a home in Scottsdale.
10:18What.
10:18What do I tell her.
10:19Hey.
10:19By the way.
10:20I know Jason Mitchell.
10:21He's an exceptional agent in Scottsdale.
10:23Would you like me to connect you.
10:24That's a referral.
10:25Right.
10:26Now the other way is.
10:27If I.
10:28I find a client at an open house.
10:30Or a friend or family member.
10:31And I say.
10:32I say.
10:33Have you talked to anybody about your financing?
10:35No.
10:35I haven't.
10:36Great.
10:36Let me connect you with my.
10:38Guy so-and-so.
10:39At so-and-so.
10:40He was really good at what they do.
10:42The.
10:43The client says.
10:44Sure.
10:44I'd love to talk to them.
10:45Why?
10:46Because they trust my judgment.
10:48That.
10:48But that's a referral.
10:50How about.
10:51Any agent across the country.
10:53That has referred a client.
10:55To somebody else.
10:56In a different market.
10:58Center.
10:58So if I'm in.
11:00Arizona.
11:01If I'm in Phoenix.
11:02And someone's moving.
11:03To Detroit.
11:04And I know a great agent in Detroit.
11:05To help that client.
11:06And I call them up.
11:07And I.
11:08Say hey my aunt.
11:09Is moving back to Detroit.
11:11Can you help her?
11:12Yeah.
11:12Sure.
11:12Great.
11:13Do you mind paying me a referral fee for that?
11:15Of course not.
11:15I'm happy to work with her.
11:17And I'm happy.
11:18To pay you.
11:19For sending me that client.
11:21My aunt.
11:22Is happy.
11:23Because she doesn't have to go do any of the legwork.
11:25She has a trusted agent in Detroit that's going to help.
11:28Her.
11:28And for me facilitating this.
11:30I'm going to ask that real estate agent.
11:31To pay me a referral fee.
11:33So tell me in any industry.
11:35Especially in lending and mortgage.
11:37Almost.
11:38All of our transactions.
11:39In some way shape or form.
11:41Come from a referral.
11:43So where does.
11:44Like where do you.
11:44So what you're saying is.
11:46A consumer direct loan off.
11:48Officer taking applications.
11:52Can't refer.
11:53A real estate agent.
11:54That they know and trust.
11:56But a retail loan officer.
11:58That's their own.
11:59That's how they make their entire living.
12:00All of them.
12:01Is through referrals.
12:02Through.
12:03Real estate professionals.
12:04But they can.
12:05The answer is no.
12:05And there's no difference.
12:07So this whole.
12:08Like trying to maybe clamp down.
12:09On the referral space.
12:11Is ridiculous to me.
12:12Because.
12:13Because that's how our entire industry operates.
12:15Right.
12:15So you know.
12:15You said you.
12:16You see a lot of.
12:17Um.
12:18Parallels between this.
12:19And the CFPB suit.
12:20Of course the difference there.
12:21Is you've got regulatory versus.
12:23Um.
12:23You know.
12:24Just a.
12:24A class action consumer lawsuit.
12:27For me.
12:27I look.
12:28I look.
12:28At it and go.
12:28You know.
12:29I look at Sitzer Burnett.
12:30Or some of those big commission lawsuits.
12:32And I go.
12:33In that one.
12:34I.
12:34I could not.
12:35I sat through some of that trial.
12:37And I'm just telling you.
12:37I could.
12:38I could.
12:38Not find the consumer harm.
12:40I thought it was.
12:41It.
12:41I didn't feel like they proved their.
12:42I think.
12:43I thought it was.
12:44You know.
12:45Ridiculous.
12:46And they won.
12:47Right.
12:47The plaintiff.
12:48It's one there.
12:48So I.
12:49So I go.
12:50You know.
12:50This looks like to me.
12:51Like.
12:51I think you and I were talking about.
12:53Beforehand.
12:53You're like.
12:53You know.
12:54It's.
12:54It seems like a nothing burger.
12:55That's what we've.
12:56We've heard from different people too.
12:57I'm not.
12:57That's.
12:58That's not legal advice.
12:58Nothing burger.
13:00But like.
13:01There's always.
13:03Anytime you have a class action.
13:04Anytime you go before a jury.
13:06Anytime.
13:06There's a risk.
13:08That people see harm.
13:09Where like.
13:10If you know the industry better.
13:12You don't see harm.
13:13Where you understand the way things work.
13:14You don't see harm.
13:15So.
13:16So when you look at this.
13:16You know.
13:17Is there a part of you that.
13:18It's like.
13:18This could.
13:19This could have a big impact.
13:21You know.
13:21I guess you never know.
13:22Because.
13:23I can tell you during the NAR lawsuit.
13:24I'm sitting there saying.
13:25Wait a minute.
13:27Attorneys.
13:28Are suing real estate brokerages.
13:30Over contracts.
13:32That their industry.
13:33Prepared.
13:34Good point.
13:35So.
13:37How bizarre.
13:38You know.
13:39I mean.
13:40But we saw the outcome of that.
13:41And I think that.
13:42That.
13:43I think there's attorneys that are really good.
13:45At.
13:47Getting people to.
13:48To say.
13:48Oh.
13:48Whoa.
13:49Miss consumer.
13:50Mr. Consumer.
13:50But the reality is.
13:51Is.
13:53I don't.
13:54I didn't see where consumers were harmed in that case.
13:56And in this case especially.
13:58You.
14:02You're going to have to.
14:03Prove.
14:03That.
14:04You forced real estate professionals.
14:06To use.
14:07To use.
14:08Your lending institution.
14:11That.
14:12That.
14:13They tried to figure that out for four years.
14:15And they couldn't.
14:16Because it never happened.
14:18Because it never happened.
14:19Right.
14:19Yeah.
14:20And it never happened.
14:21And I can tell you.
14:22And.
14:23And again.
14:23I don't want to speak on behalf of Rocket.
14:25Or anybody else.
14:25That's not my place.
14:27I'm telling.
14:28You what I know.
14:29And what I know is.
14:30There's not a single lending partner.
14:32That I have.
14:33Or of the ones that.
14:35You know.
14:35We could name.
14:38The.
14:38That require any type of mortgage capture.
14:40That require any type of give back.
14:43If there was.
14:44We would have.
14:45Now they say.
14:45The reason that the case at the CFPB was.
14:48Dismissed was because.
14:49The Trump administration came in.
14:51I will tell you.
14:52There were.
14:52I.
14:53I think.
14:53And don't quote me on this.
14:54And I don't want to misspeak.
14:55But I believe there were 39 active lawsuits.
14:58At the CFPB.
15:00When.
15:00When we.
15:01When I got sued.
15:03We were the first case dropped.
15:07And there's.
15:08Still cases with the CFPB.
15:09Everybody thought the CFPB would get totally dismantled in January.
15:12The CFPB.
15:13Didn't really start getting dismantled until like April or May.
15:17There was still.
15:17And there's.
15:18Still active litigation going on.
15:19What they looked at is which one is most frivolous.
15:22Well thankfully.
15:23It was ours.
15:25But.
15:26That's because.
15:27There was no merit.
15:28There's no merit when you can't prove that you were doing the.
15:33things that you're suggesting that were done.
15:35Now again.
15:36However this plays out.
15:38I don't know.
15:39What I do know.
15:40And what we can prove.
15:42Is that.
15:43We get sent a referral from our partnerships.
15:48And many other real estate agents as well.
15:50Get sent a referral.
15:52And it's.
15:53Very specific.
15:55Mrs. Wheeler is looking for a home.
15:56In Sacramento, California.
15:58Can you make sure to take care of Mrs. Wheeler?
16:00Yes I will.
16:01Great.
16:02We're going to send her.
16:03To you today.
16:04And there's a reason.
16:05That.
16:06The majority of the time.
16:07If not.
16:08Almost all the time.
16:10I mean even if you look at.
16:11You know we do what.
16:12We do what.
16:1312, 13,000 transactions a year.
16:15I think we had one consumer complaint last.
16:18Year one.
16:19You know I mean.
16:20It's crazy.
16:21This is a.
16:22This is a.
16:23And also too.
16:25Most of the time the consumer does get some type of.
16:28Lending credit.
16:29Or some type of.
16:31Um.
16:31Reward.
16:32By.
16:33Going down this path.
16:34Not only do we have a trusted agent partnership.
16:37But also we.
16:38Can credit you.
16:39And the reason they can credit you.
16:41Without damaging margin.
16:43Is because they will.
16:44Not the lending institution.
16:45But a real estate institution.
16:46Will collect.
16:47So.
16:48Some type of referral fee.
16:49From the agent's pocket.
16:51Not the consumers.
16:52The agent's pocket.
16:53To help credit the consumer.
16:55And save them money.
16:56Like who really pays in this.
16:57Is the.
16:58Real estate agent.
16:59Because.
17:00Their standard practice of commissions.
17:02Is the same.
17:03And so if that's the same.
17:06But I have to give up a point.
17:07Because.
17:08Because I was referred this client.
17:10Most agents say that work referrals.
17:12Yeah.
17:12But I.
17:13I'd rather have that source of business.
17:14And not make as much.
17:16Commission on that client.
17:18Because it's a client.
17:19I wouldn't have had anyway.
17:21Okay.
17:21So let's talk for a second about.
17:23Respa.
17:23Right.
17:24I mean a whole other can of worms.
17:25But what do you think about.
17:26Is there something.
17:28There that could be done.
17:29Respa reform.
17:30Or better.
17:32Um.
17:33Definitions or whatever.
17:34That could clear up some of the.
17:35The problems on that side.
17:37Transparent.
17:38Transparency is everything.
17:39And um.
17:40And the more transparent you are.
17:41With the consumer.
17:42The better.
17:43The better it is for everybody.
17:45And so if there.
17:46If there's something that.
17:47That.
17:48I think potentially could happen.
17:52Um.
17:52Um.
17:53I think disclosure.
17:54Potentially on a settlement statement.
17:56That a referral fee was collected.
17:57I think disclosure potentially on a settlement statement.
17:58I think disclosure potentially on a settlement statement.
18:00That a referral fee was collected.
17:58I think that you know.
18:00When you go to close on your home.
18:02You like.
18:02It's.
18:03It's already disclosed.
18:04Ahead of time.
18:05Well ahead of time.
18:06That we're connecting with a real estate professional.
18:08We have a relationship with them.
18:10We may.
18:10We may.
18:11Um.
18:12We may collect a.
18:13A referral fee of some sort.
18:14So it's already disclosed.
18:15But.
18:15I think maybe putting it on the settlement statement.
18:17Is.
18:18Because again.
18:19A consumer is not going to care.
18:20Because they didn't pay for that.
18:22The real estate.
18:23The real estate agent paid for that.
18:24And what they're going to find.
18:25Is that instead of.
18:26On a.
18:26On a.
18:28$300,000 purchase.
18:30Instead of making $9,000.
18:32The agent made $6,000.
18:33But paid $3,000 to the person that sent them their way.
18:36Which.
18:37There's no harm.
18:38In that.
18:38And so maybe disclosure there.
18:40I know in our documents.
18:41What we have.
18:42Is that.
18:43That we spell out specifically.
18:45In our buyer broker agreement.
18:46And in our listing contract.
18:48That there may be cases where you were referred to us from a referral.
18:53Partner in that case.
18:55A referral fee may be applicable to that partnership.
18:58We like to get ahead of that.
18:59We do disclose that into our agreements.
19:02But it's.
19:03It's never been required to be on a settlement statement.
19:06Now I think there are some states actually that do so.
19:08Well if I'm if I'm if I'm saying that wrong.
19:10I think there are some states that do that that we obviously.
19:13Obviously do but the majority of states don't require that on the settlement statement.
19:16I see no issue with that.
19:18And if that that becomes the case.
19:20I don't think anybody will care either.
19:22I just.
19:23It's such a common practice.
19:24Like I don't think people understand.
19:26Like even if you go down to reload.
19:28That industry has been around 50 plus years.
19:30That's all referrals.
19:32Right.
19:33Almost everything in our business is a referral.
19:37So where where do you.
19:38Stop it.
19:38The reality is as long as it's transparent and disclosed and the consumer says.
19:43I'd love to work with somebody that you suggest.
19:45There's no harm here.
19:46Jason thank you so much for being on.
19:48On shedding some some more light on this very important topic.
19:51You and I both know we're going to.
19:53We're going to have lots more discussions on this.
19:55We'll be keeping a close eye and we'll have you on again soon.
19:58To talk about you know any anything that's coming up because this is just an ongoing situation.
20:03With lawsuits and and real estate and mortgage going forward.
20:07So let me ask you before.
20:08You let me go I want to ask you a personal question on that on the referral piece of a consumer not.
20:13Knowing a real estate professional and asking for a recommendation do you see any.
20:18Harm with any company recommending a trusted real estate professional for a consumer.
20:23No and as a consumer I've been that person when I've moved to a new area or.
20:28Worked with a lending partner in the past and and didn't know somebody in the new.
20:33Area so yeah no I it's it's a benefit to me I want to work with good people who.
20:38Work with good people that's right that's how we all think right well and that's I go back to these.
20:43That's you got a four out of five chance of connecting with an agent that didn't sell at least two houses the year.
20:48So if you only sell two houses the year no offense to the agents that watches that do if you only.
20:53Transact once every six months you're not a true professional you can't make a living like that.
20:58Most can't so you got a four out of five chance of finding somebody that's not a true pro or you.
21:03Can take a recommendation of someone that is I'll take option be totally understand thank you so much.
21:08Jason we will talk again soon thank you.
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