00:00Trade deadline's Monday.
00:02The Nats have lost two in a row, two tough losses.
00:06They had opportunities in the bottom of the eighth against Toronto
00:10with the bases loaded and two swings at it.
00:13Couldn't get it done.
00:15Last night, the tying run in the seventh was on third
00:19after Garcia was pushing, hitting for the cycle.
00:23Two tough losses in a row.
00:25They're back to 500.
00:26They're two and a half out on the wildcard race.
00:30By the way, of both the second and the third spot,
00:32there are three wildcard spots in both the American League
00:36and the National League.
00:37And right now, the number two wildcard spot
00:40and the number three wildcard spot are both wide open
00:43with about six teams in the mix for those two spots.
00:47The Nats are still one of them.
00:48But what will they do between now and Monday night?
00:52Joining us right now is Andrew Golden.
00:55Andrew has covered the team for the post.
00:58He now covers the team for the Baltimore banner.
01:01At Andrew C. Golden on X.
01:04Love having Andrew on the show.
01:06So let me start.
01:07Before we get to Foster Griffin, Luis Garcia, and other possibilities,
01:13not a great time, right, to lose two in a row.
01:16I know it's Atlanta.
01:18Had a chance last night with a 3-0 lead.
01:21And then the day before, losing to a team that had lost 8 of 11 coming in.
01:25This isn't the best timing for even a mini-losing streak, is it?
01:31No, for sure.
01:32Everything's magnified at this time.
01:33Obviously, when you think about the Nationals' sell-off in 2021
01:37is because it was based on how they performed in those final games,
01:40and they blew those games, and they kind of sold everybody off in 21, right?
01:43And so, like, you know, you can say that all 162 games matter about the same,
01:47but around this time, I think the games are maybe magnified
01:50a little bit more than an average game, and everything kind of means more.
01:53And so I think, you know, obviously, you know,
01:55they're 1-3 in their last four games.
01:56And so when you're thinking about the trade deadline,
01:58it's going to continue to trend in the wrong direction, like,
02:01and they fall back in the wild-card race,
02:02you give more of an incentive to sell.
02:04But if they keep winning, they'll find themselves in a position
02:06where they might do a mix of both.
02:07And so I think these games are crucial,
02:09and obviously Foster Griffin will play a big role in that.
02:12If you're right, and these games are crucial,
02:16what's the breaking point here between being more aggressive as a seller
02:20and not being aggressive as a seller?
02:23Where do you think they need to be after these next three against Atlanta?
02:28I think you have to be about two or three games out of the wild-card still,
02:33I think, to still be in a place where you're going to do a mix of buying and selling.
02:37Say they were to get, you know, swept by Atlanta
02:39and they're five games back of the wild-card,
02:41then I think, you know,
02:43there's probably more of an incentive to want to sell, right?
02:45Because it's like, that's what inferior rebuilding teams should do.
02:49If you're five games out and there's a lot of ground to make up, right?
02:52Then, like, I think it makes it a little bit more difficult.
02:54Or, like, you know, like the Marlins, they lost, like, 11 straight games.
02:57It was like, oh, they're definitely going to sell.
02:59And they won three straight, and now it's like, okay, what do you do now, right?
03:01And so I think that, like, it's a lot about where are you at,
03:04you know, on Saturday or Sunday.
03:05I think if they keep training in the wrong direction,
03:07I think you have to consider selling.
03:10But, you know, but again, like, they've been the best offense in baseball for a reason.
03:13And so I wouldn't be surprised if they were able to turn it around.
03:16I just think, and I've had this conversation, Andrew,
03:19with multiple people over the last week who have come on the show.
03:22This is an unexpected position that they are in, obviously.
03:26I mean, they had the second lowest win total heading into this season
03:30in the major leagues.
03:31This was, this has to be a surprise to everybody in their building.
03:36With that said, you know, they're not, you know, the Yankees, the Red Sox,
03:41the Dodgers, where these opportunities exist every year.
03:43You know, they, I don't think they can pass,
03:48especially considering the business, which is not super healthy.
03:51Their attendance isn't great.
03:53We also know that ownership, you know, continues to think about selling the team
03:56and that's not going to happen without an increase in valuation,
04:00which winning would help.
04:01I just think you don't pass up on this unexpected opportunity,
04:07especially when it's legitimate, meaning their offense at this point,
04:12110 games, isn't going to change.
04:15It's legitimate.
04:16Their starting pitching with Cavalli and Griffin, for sure, is pretty solid.
04:21I think they'd be a dangerous team if they got a third
04:24or a second wild card spot in a short series.
04:27So how do you think they're going to,
04:28how do you think they should approach it?
04:31Yeah, well, I wrote this in a column yesterday
04:34about trading Foster Griffin, right?
04:35Like when you, when you look at Foster, right?
04:37Like it makes a ton of sense to trade him, right?
04:40Cause it's a rebuilding team.
04:41There's values and an expiring contract.
04:43So I get that side of it, right?
04:45But at the same time, it's like you play, you play the games to win, right?
04:49And so it's like, if you're, if you're two games,
04:50I have a wild card, right?
04:51Then like, why shouldn't you make an effort to go for it?
04:54Now I'm not saying they should go all in with this roster, right?
04:57Like their bullpen is really in a spot where I don't think that,
05:00I mean, you'd have to make like six trades for relievers
05:02to bring their bullpen to a much better spot, right?
05:04Like I'm not saying to mortgage your future for this season,
05:07but like, I think there's a credible argument to, to, to try, right?
05:11Like you don't know how many chances you're going to get to win, right?
05:13Where it's like, you can hope that by compiling prospects
05:17that some of those guys pan out, right?
05:19But you just never know how it's going to go.
05:20Like I think a lot about the Orioles, the Orioles in 2022, right?
05:25Like they had an opportunity where they were about two and a half games
05:30out of the wild card.
05:31They traded Trey Mancini and they traded Jorge Lopez.
05:34And at the time it seemed like the right deal, right?
05:36Where it's like, you know, you're moving, you're acquiring pieces.
05:38But now you look at the Orioles, they made two playoff appearances,
05:41have no wins to show for it.
05:43And they're kind of at the back end of their, of like, of like their,
05:46they're supposed to be their golden era.
05:47Kind of wondering if they should have done more, right?
05:50And so, and so I think it's tough to predict what the future brings,
05:53but if I'm them, I would definitely keep CJ Abrams.
05:55I think he's performed too well.
05:56It means too much to the offense to trade him.
05:58I honestly would keep Foster Griffin.
06:00Like I think like those two guys mean a lot to winning,
06:03but I think you can trade a guy like a Jacob Young.
06:06I think you could trade a guy like a Luis Garcia.
06:08If you get the right return.
06:10And I think you could maybe make some, some,
06:12some moves on the edges to get some bullpen help.
06:14Right.
06:14I don't think you could go all in,
06:16but I think you could at least keep Foster and keep CJ at least try to at
06:20least make a run at this.
06:21Like, I just don't know if you know how many chances you're going to get.
06:24And I think it's worth it just for the fan base and for the clubhouse,
06:27like give them an opportunity to experience winning baseball.
06:29I think that has to matter at some point, right?
06:30You can't just like be like, Oh, we'll do it next year.
06:33We'll do it next year.
06:33It's like, it's like the fans want something to believe in.
06:35And I think you have to value that at some point.
06:37Well, and I think, you know, part of that is, and you alluded to it is,
06:41you know, when you're having a season,
06:43that's obviously much better than expected.
06:46The downer of trading a Foster Griffin and even a Luis Garcia at this point,
06:52because they did trade Curtis Mead.
06:54I actually now think if you traded Garcia,
06:55you're, you're kind of threatening that dominant offensive team that you have.
07:00That would be a big part of why you can make a run to a playoff spot.
07:04But my God, can you imagine if they traded CJ Abrams after this,
07:08it would be an absolute deflating thing for the rest of the clubhouse.
07:13Don't you think?
07:14Yeah, I completely agree.
07:16Like I think you can explore a CJ trade at some point in the off season,
07:21and maybe it won't be as deflating as of a blow because it's like you start
07:24spring training fresh and that's who you have.
07:26But like to do it at this point, I mean, I mean, CJ,
07:29one of the things I really appreciate about CJ this year is he seems more
07:33bought into what the team is doing and he's more bought into his teammates.
07:37And I think there's just a cohesiveness that CJ kind of adds to the clubhouse
07:41in a way that I have not, not, not that he hasn't been met in seasons prior,
07:44but it's just been more heightened this year.
07:46And I think to trade CJ would just be a really tough look,
07:48I think for the sake of the organization,
07:50what they're trying to build and that culture they're trying to build.
07:53Like, I just think it'd be really tough to trade CJ at this point,
07:55because he just means so much to their offense.
07:57It's just like, you know, like the way he's able to drive and run,
07:59like he's a threat in a way that, you know,
08:01James was obviously a threat, right?
08:03But to have CJ in that four spot, that strikes fear, I think,
08:06into a lot of lineups.
08:07And I think that I agree with your point.
08:09Like, I think that the lineup would be a lot less potent
08:11if you trade Luis Garcia, like Curtis Meade was like pushing it, right?
08:15But like, like trading Luis Garcia, I think would be tough
08:17because like Luis, Luis hit 23 homers.
08:19Like you'd be essentially looking for your power production
08:22from essentially just James Wood and CJ Abrams.
08:24And that'd be kind of tough, right?
08:25And so I think it'd be tough to trade Luis Garcia.
08:28I could still see it, but I do think it would make it,
08:30it would definitely take a, you know, a hit on their offense for sure.
08:34So let's just talk about Foster Griffin in a little bit more depth.
08:37Where do you think the nature of any sort of contract extension,
08:43where are those talks right now?
08:45What do you know?
08:47Yeah, I don't get, I don't know exactly where they're at.
08:51Like you see conflicting reports that, you know, like that's fizzled out,
08:54but you also see reports that like they're still considering an extension.
08:57So I think that like, I think it's interesting, right?
09:00Like if you can't give an extension, you can easily make the argument
09:02that you want to trade him.
09:04But at the same time, there's a potential that if you,
09:07if you go all the way to the end of the season,
09:09you could potentially send him a qualifying offer.
09:11And if he doesn't sign with you,
09:12then you can get a compensatory pick,
09:14which in theory would be like a second round pick next year.
09:16And obviously for how much the team is talking about how they want their
09:19drafting development to be a big deal.
09:21I think that's really valuable to have that 50th pick.
09:24And so I think there's a lot of options out there.
09:26I guess my thought is I would try to see if you could extend them.
09:29And if not, like I still think it makes sense to keep them.
09:32Cause in theory, you know, Foster Griffin came from Japan,
09:34had a lot of success this year.
09:36And so I think if you keep him to the end of the year,
09:38in theory, you could make the argument to him, like, Hey,
09:40you had a lot of success here and a lot of continuity here.
09:43Like you can continue to build that here.
09:44And I think that that could be something that might be worth considering.
09:47I think the other interesting thing too,
09:49when it comes to Foster Griffin is I don't exactly know what the contract
09:52and what his market will look like.
09:54I think when I talk to people about what his market would look like,
09:57I think Seth Lugo is a guy that comes to mind.
09:59He signed a two year, $45 million contract a couple of years ago,
10:02but he was about six years older than Foster Griffin's at right now.
10:06And so it's just interesting to see what his market will be.
10:08You know,
10:09but I can't imagine there'll be anything more than like three to,
10:12you know,
10:12you know,
10:12two to three year contract near between like 30 to $50 million.
10:16So, you know,
10:17I don't know.
10:17It should be interesting to see what his market is.
10:19If he feels like he can test the market and get more than I could get why
10:22he'd go for it,
10:23but also at the same time,
10:24like,
10:24I think it's a reasonable contract for the nationals to do expensive money
10:27coming off the books this year with Strasburg coming off the books,
10:30Trevor Williams,
10:30like they have money to spend.
10:31I think.
10:32How much,
10:33how much irony would it be?
10:35And I'm not suggesting there would be a lot of it,
10:38but it's just a gut feel for a heavy analytics based front office to decide
10:47to pass up on perhaps,
10:49you know,
10:50a reasonable package of future prospects for a 30 to 31 year old pitcher who
10:57basically can't throw Pat,
11:00you know,
11:00over 90 miles per hour and is truly an old school pitcher.
11:05Right.
11:06Yeah.
11:06I mean,
11:07it would be hilarious at the same time.
11:09Like it would speak to the fact that like Paul Saboni isn't just approaching
11:12this from an analytical perspective.
11:14he's trying to also balance feel as well.
11:15And I think that that is pretty significant to try to balance like feel and
11:19also like what,
11:20what the numbers say.
11:21Right.
11:21And so like,
11:22like,
11:22like I do think you can't just base things off of like what a,
11:26what like a computer says,
11:27like you do it to have some feel.
11:28Now it should help and guide your thinking for sure,
11:31but it can't be the end all be all.
11:33And so I do think it would be hilarious if it panned out that way,
11:36but also like,
11:36I think it would be a good sign that like they're not just making everything
11:39based off of an analytical decision,
11:41but they are using it to help inform their decisions.
11:43But like,
11:43that's not going to be the end all be all.
11:44And so like,
11:45I'm interested to see what they do.
11:46Right.
11:47Like,
11:47but it would be hilarious.
11:48Right.
11:48Where it's like the guy to give a contract out to doesn't throw faster than
11:5192,
11:5293.
11:52Like you would think that'd be like the last thing that you would be trying
11:54to sign.
11:55Truly,
11:55truly an old school,
11:57you know,
11:59father's pitchers,
12:00pitcher,
12:01you know,
12:01not,
12:01not what,
12:02you know,
12:02most people are looking for today,
12:04by the way,
12:04one last thing,
12:05just on last night,
12:06that was a tough night for Dylan Cruz.
12:08And I,
12:09he's,
12:09he's given us some reasons to believe this year,
12:12you know,
12:12in recent weeks,
12:13but that was a brutal couple of at bats when he had an opportunity with
12:18runner and scoring,
12:19runners and scoring position.
12:21Just seems too impatient to me.
12:24What about you?
12:25Yeah.
12:25like there,
12:26there are stretches where Dylan seems really locked into his approach,
12:28especially against,
12:29like if you look at his stats,
12:30like he's crushing lefties and pitching.
12:32Like,
12:32I don't know if you look,
12:32look at the difference,
12:33but it's almost like a 900 OPS against lefties.
12:35And then right.
12:36He's like six 50.
12:37And so I like,
12:37when you look at him and his approach,
12:40it's very clear that he has a good feel for what pitchers are trying to do to
12:43him,
12:43what his,
12:43his sight,
12:44his eyesight star,
12:45when it comes to lefties,
12:46but right.
12:47He's,
12:47it feels like he's still trying to figure it out.
12:48There's some of that's where like,
12:49it looks like he has everything down pat.
12:51And then the next at bat,
12:52he swings it two sliders away.
12:53It's very clear that like breaking balls away is if you're going to get him,
12:57that's how you kind of approach it.
12:58And so like,
12:58I think it's just a matter of like honing in his approach and just not getting
13:01too aggressive in,
13:02in those key,
13:04key moments,
13:04if that makes sense.
13:05And I think you see some of that,
13:06you see some moments where like,
13:08he's very patient.
13:09He slows the game down.
13:10He's worked some walk.
13:11There was a stretch that he was walking over the past two weeks.
13:13That was pretty impressive.
13:14And then last night,
13:15not very patient.
13:17Yeah.
13:17Last night he wasn't patient.
13:18Right.
13:18And so I think it's just kind of like the growing pain,
13:20the learning curse.
13:21It's just like,
13:22how quickly can you get that in the bud?
13:24And I think like that's the remain to be seen.
13:26I think that will be the key to his development is like,
13:28is he swinging the pitches that he knows he can hit or is he getting a little
13:30bit too aggressive?
13:31I think that's kind of,
13:31that's kind of the bottom line.
13:32And I think it's going to be a push and pull for a while as he tries to navigate that.
13:36I got 20 seconds,
13:37but I forgot to ask you,
13:40what did you think of Jake Irvin in his return?
13:43There were a lot of hard hit balls for sure.
13:45Like,
13:45I think that was pretty notable.
13:47Like a lot of balls hit the warning track,
13:48but I mean,
13:49he kept them in the game.
13:50I think that's all you can ask for.
13:51Obviously,
13:52you know,
13:52James would kind of misplayed that one ball,
13:53right?
13:55But I think that like from the peripheral numbers,
13:58like it wasn't like maybe his,
13:59his best showing him a sense that the Braves had a lot,
14:01a lot of hard hit balls at the same time,
14:03like he would have allowed one run ahead and not been for that.
14:06And so I think like it's,
14:07it's a step in the right direction,
14:08obviously.
14:09And obviously you got to take with a grain of salt,
14:10but he's still working his way back.
14:12But I think,
14:13I think there were things to,
14:14there were things to,
14:15to like and things not to like.
14:16And I think it's just a matter of can he hone in that consistency and,
14:19and figure out his exact mix and kind of get back to the picture he was right
14:22before he went down with the injury.
14:23Great job,
14:24Andrew.
14:24Thanks for being available.
14:25Really appreciate it.
14:26We'll talk to you soon.
14:28All right,
14:28Kevin.
14:28Thanks so much for having me on.
14:30Yep.
14:30Andrew Golden from the Baltimore banner at Andrew C.
14:33Golden on X.
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