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00:00Ian, our expert, our guy that we love having on the air, and you can always check him out
00:03at NFL Blue Book.
00:04He is Charles Robinson, and he is on the Wise Heart Right.
00:07We make it right.
00:08Call Kyle Wright.
00:09Hotline.
00:09Happy Thursday game day to you, Charles.
00:12How are you?
00:12Hi, Charles.
00:14Doing well.
00:14How are you guys doing?
00:16Gents, prime time?
00:17Yeah.
00:18Weird.
00:18And hey, maybe the flex thing does happen later in the season, but yeah, this is a big,
00:26early, important game in the AFC North.
00:28Something I thought we wouldn't ever say in the beginning of the season, that maybe
00:32the Browns are going to flex game.
00:33I'm sure the first time Thursday Night Football rolled in here during the preseason, and they
00:37were probably like, oh man, I can't believe we have to do this game.
00:40And now, I mean, you look forward to it.
00:42You've got two teams that are fighting for outright first place, at least for a couple
00:45days in the AFC North.
00:46Just give me your general overall thoughts on tonight's game.
00:51Well, you know, I mean, look, for Pittsburgh, there's no question it's huge.
00:55I mean, they've already gotten a win over Cincinnati.
00:58I mean, to go 2-0 in the division in the first four games would obviously be a big deal
01:04for them.
01:05Everybody's talking about the offense and, you know, how Mike McCarthy's calling it,
01:11how Aaron Rodgers feels about it.
01:15You know, I think they feel a little bit better after last week.
01:18Mike got a little more creative, I think, with some of the calls.
01:22You know, the Browns, what can I say?
01:25I mean, it's, I don't know.
01:29Look, the offensive production, when you look at the underlying numbers, you're like, man,
01:33I don't know.
01:34This is, it's, it's, they're, the turnover differential's been great.
01:38That's probably made up for an offense that certainly has not been great in terms of, look,
01:46the yardage.
01:47I mean, they're near the bottom of the league in yards, they're near the bottom of the league
01:51in third down conversion rate.
01:54You know, the red zone touchdown rate's not great.
01:57But when I look at Watson, I'm like, okay, he's not turning the ball over, right?
02:01He's playing efficient.
02:04He's mobile, which frankly is, to me, a surprise.
02:09His mobility seems real.
02:11And I also see some things on offense where you're like, okay, there's, there's improvement
02:17to be had.
02:17The running game can get better.
02:19You know, Quinshawn Junkins, obviously we've not seen him look like he has in the past.
02:25I think you can get more out of, you know, Casey conception and the, and the connection
02:30with Watson has not been where I think it needs to be.
02:33So you see areas for improvement offensively and, you know, so I, I think this is an opportunity,
02:42frankly, against, against Pittsburgh to, to take a stride here and, and, you know, put
02:48up something in primetime that shows, you know, people that this Cleveland Browns team, the
02:53last two games have been quality wins.
02:55And, and, you know, this is one that I think you can put your foot in the ground and all
02:59of a sudden people, you, you come out of this three and one.
03:01And I think people are going, the Browns become a story, like a story, like a real story across
03:06the, across the league.
03:07I think everybody here in Cleveland has thought, probably still thinks that there's no way
03:11Deshawn is back here next year.
03:13Is that changing?
03:15And how could that change?
03:19It's man, it's a, it's a fascinating question.
03:22I mean, obviously he's, he's going to free agency.
03:25Like it's, it's engineered that way, no matter what, he's going to get to free agency.
03:29So I think the question becomes, let's say, let's play this out.
03:33Let's say he puts up a quality season, right?
03:36Um, my question would be where are the suitors elsewhere?
03:41Um, that would, would certainly factor.
03:45Um, it's a big quarterback class come in the 2027 draft.
03:50Uh, a lot of teams are, are, are going to, I mean, there could be five guys that get taken
03:55in the first round, depending on how the college season unfolds.
03:58And, um, in those situations, like you look at the Raiders, when they knew they were going
04:04to take Fernando Mendoza, they're like, we need a bridge.
04:06We got to have a bridge guy.
04:07So is there a team out there that's going to take a first round quarterback and says,
04:11we need a bridge quarterback.
04:12Let's, let's, let's look at Watson.
04:15Um, and then there's situations like, let's say Minnesota, where if, uh, Kyler Murray is
04:23not the answer there long-term, you start to ask, you know, can, can Deshaun play himself
04:30into another look, a second look contract, you know, like a Daniel Jones situation where
04:36it's like, um, somebody brings him in for a year, says, look, if you, if you're, if
04:402026 is real and he has a quality season through the rest of this year, we'll look at you and
04:46potentially talk about signing you to, to a longer term deal after a show me year, like
04:52Baker, when he went to Tampa, Daniel Jones, when he went to Indianapolis, that kind of a
04:56situation in terms of Cleveland, I don't know.
05:00You know, I just don't know what the, I think if it works, then, um,
05:06and, and he plays efficiently, he's not turned the ball over, he's healthy the remainder
05:11of the season.
05:12I think you have to look at it.
05:13You, you can't, you can't simply turn your back on it because of what happened prior to
05:19the, the 2026 season, like what happens now is really what matters.
05:23So if Todd Munkin has confidence in him, if Deshaun stays healthy and, and, you know,
05:30there's growth through the season with the offense, I think you, you, you sit down and
05:36you say, okay, well, what are the possibilities in terms of Watson staying here?
05:39And, um, maybe we've gotten him dialed in with the right coach, the right scheme and the
05:44right surrounding roster.
05:46Now, what financially would this look like for us to, to go back to, um, the table and,
05:52and do another deal with him?
05:54Could he be a bridge guy here if they draft somebody in 2027, or would that not maybe
05:59appeal to him?
06:02I think it depends what his options are, right?
06:05Like if it's, um, if your only options are to be a bridge guy, um, you, you have a better
06:12chance of staying in place.
06:15If you've had success in 2026 and, you know, extending yourself beyond the, let's say it's,
06:23he sits there and he says, okay, I can go elsewhere in 2027.
06:27It's all bridge opportunities, but I'm going to a staff that doesn't know me.
06:32Um, I'm going to, you know, a place where maybe I haven't had, um, I don't know if I can
06:38have success.
06:38I'm not familiar with the personnel.
06:40The best situation is if it works here, if it works in Cleveland, then you stay in Cleveland,
06:46you stay where it works.
06:48Um, even if that means they're drafting a young quarterback and, and you have to, you
06:54know, potentially stave off a young player for a bit.
06:58Um, I wouldn't take anything off the table.
07:01Like it's success is, it's the metric that matters the most, right?
07:05It's the thing that changes everyone's mind when it comes to, um, the sustainability of
07:12a player, uh, on a roster, regardless of what's happened before.
07:15And, and as I said, last week, when we talked, you know, the thing I probably overlooked with,
07:20with Cleveland fans, they just want to win.
07:22Right.
07:22And, and that's the same in the front office, the same with the coaching staff.
07:26And that's what Todd Munkin said.
07:28I want the quarterback who I'm going to start the quarterback who I feel like gets us to
07:33wins.
07:33We need to win.
07:34I'm not worried about the future.
07:36I'm worried about now.
07:36I'm worried about wins.
07:38If Deshaun produces that, I don't think anything's off the table.
07:41All right.
07:42Let me just, I wasn't planning on going here, but I want to throw a twist into this quarterback
07:46scenario.
07:46Cause like Jeff does a thing and break down every week that we look at the quarterbacks
07:50who are in college.
07:50And one guy we just, we're not talking about is, uh, what Kamario Taylor, the kid from
07:54Mississippi state, who's just been off to an amazing start.
07:58And then there's the Jeremiah Smith factor.
08:01Like, I I'm wondering how much he's going to mess up the draft.
08:04If somebody was looking at a quarterback or a trade, like that, I wonder if Smith can
08:09go number one, cause it just doesn't happen very often.
08:12And how that would play into the whole thing.
08:17It's funny because this, this is the, um, I'm going to date myself here, but this is
08:23the Calvin Johnson, um, Jamarcus Russell quandary again, because I remember when I, I
08:30wrote the year that Jamarcus Russell was coming out and he was going to be the number
08:34one pick for the Raiders.
08:35I wrote, they need to take Calvin Johnson, like they're, you're, you got a screwed up
08:39organization.
08:40You're going to, you're going to take a kid who needs stability, needs all these different
08:44things.
08:45This is not where Jamarcus Russell needs to go.
08:48And the guy who is dominant and could justify actually being taken number one overall long
08:53term is Calvin Johnson.
08:54I think that's where Jeremiah said, we're going to start to have that conversation.
08:58Um, we're, we're, I guess we're probably already having it now.
09:01So, um, he's, he's so dominant.
09:06I, so I, when I was going through camp, um, at one point I was with a GM and it
09:12was right,
09:13it was coming right off the heels.
09:14Maybe it was like a week after, um, where Caleb Downs had kind of said or insinuated that
09:20Jeremiah Smith was already on the level of, of George Pickens and CD lamb.
09:26Right.
09:26And that kind of like in Cowboys, Dallas Cowboys land, it was like, Oh my God.
09:30Um, I was with a GM that, that day, or it was within, you know, a few days of it.
09:35And he said to me, that kid's better now.
09:38He was like, I think Jeremiah Smith is a better player right now than CD lamb and George Pickens.
09:45And that blew my mind.
09:49And I just, so we, we ended up having this conversation just about, you know, look size
09:54mentality, um, just everything he brings to the table is so upper level.
10:01And, you know, it really is.
10:03It's a Calvin Johnson, um, conversation with, with Jeremiah Smith.
10:07So I think when you say, Hey, there's these quarterbacks out there, could he screw up the
10:10draft?
10:11Yeah, absolutely.
10:11I don't think there's, there's any question that he could be, I don't, I don't just because
10:17of the value of the quarterback position and how much people need or how many teams need
10:22to have that centerpiece in place.
10:24It, I think it always ends up trending toward whoever comes off the board at number one, it's
10:30always going to be a quarterback.
10:31If it's a team that needs a quarterback in that slot.
10:33Um, but number two, like Calvin Johnson, I absolutely think that, that Jeremiah Smith could
10:39be the second pick in the draft.
10:41I think it'll be, it'll be fascinating to see who lands in that top two matrix at the
10:48end of the season.
10:49And if, and if the teams both need quarterbacks or if they don't need quarterbacks, because
10:53if they, they don't need quarterbacks, I don't know that you necessarily go, Oh, great.
10:58We can get somebody to move up to this pitch to take a quarterback.
11:01I think you go, we, we take Jeremiah Smith because he's going to be a dominant wide receiver
11:05for us for the next 10 years.
11:07Charles Robinson joining us from NFL blue book.com.
11:11You can go there, sign up for his newsletter arrives in your inbox in the morning.
11:15I enjoy it very much.
11:16Well done, Charles.
11:17Can I ask you about another wide receiver who has gone to social media this week and is
11:21dropping some breadcrumbs and that's Tyree kill who said, all right.
11:26And he had the huge knee injury last year playing for Miami.
11:29He said on Monday, Hey, I'm time to get off the couch.
11:34And then yesterday said cold weather team, something like I'm getting ready for some
11:38cold weather.
11:39What's Tyree doing and where might he end up?
11:43Yeah.
11:44I mean, he's like Drew Rosenhouse is his agent and he's been clear that Tyree wants to play
11:50for, for a contender.
11:51Right.
11:52And, um, I think the two teams that are on their wishlist, both for Drew and also Tyree is
12:00either a reunion in Kansas city, um, who, who can still use him if I mean, depending on
12:08what he brings to the table now coming off the knee injury.
12:11And then Buffalo is, is that other team that I think, uh, they love to, to find a way to
12:18get Tyree on that roster.
12:19I, it's interesting.
12:21I, the big question though, right now for every team that looks at him and, and the social
12:27media posts and the little workout clips, all that stuff, that's great and everything,
12:31but nobody knows, is he explosive?
12:34Like, can he violently cut off of that knee completely surgically reconstructed knee?
12:40Um, you know, nobody knows he's 32 years old and if explosion and speed is not still a
12:48capable part of his game, I don't know that he's, you're going to end up with like Odell
12:52Beckham jr. He's going to come in and you're going to like the giants with Odell go, okay,
12:58we need to find a role.
12:59We need to get him on the field.
13:01Let's, let's see if we can do that.
13:02And then 20 offensive snaps later, you're like, yeah, he's not the guy anymore.
13:07He's just doesn't, he doesn't bring anything to the table that can get us, you know, get
13:12him on the field consistently.
13:13And he doesn't offer us, um, other options.
13:17So like with Odell in New York, the reason why he gets cut and they bring in Braxton
13:22Berrios, it's because Braxton Berrios can factor in special teams and he's, he's still
13:27got enough ability to play a niche role for them in their offense.
13:32And so with Tyreek, it's going to be the same thing.
13:35It's like, okay, well, if he can't give us anything else other than wide receiver snaps,
13:40he better be explosive.
13:42He better still be able to bring speed, um, and give us at least, you know, a, you
13:47three or four plays a game that, that, you know, uh, where he can actually catch a football
13:52and do something with it that makes him, uh, worthwhile.
13:55So I don't know, man, it's, it's tough.
13:58I, I, that knee injury was so catastrophic.
14:01It's bad.
14:02It's a, it's a big unknown whether or not he's still going to be able to do the things
14:06he could prior to that injury.
14:09Charles Robinson, NFL blue book, joining us on the wise heart, right.
14:12We make it right.
14:12Call Kyle, right.
14:13Hotline.
14:13Um, I know this, I don't know if it sounds, it's week four.
14:17The NFL, but I mean, we're used to the Browns, not getting any street cred and just kind
14:22of being a laughingstock.
14:24How much, how far could tonight's game go into maybe, maybe people opening their eyes a little
14:29bit more to realizing that the Browns could be a good team, but they're going to be a
14:33good team down the road or, you know, are they just parachuting a quarterback in to make
14:38them better?
14:38I mean, as far as respect goes, um, I, I don't know, you tell me, does this game mean a
14:43little
14:44bit more cause it's on Thursday night?
14:45Does it, uh, can it help the clout?
14:47I guess that's what I'm, um, without, we're so used to being negative right here.
14:51That's why.
14:51Yeah.
14:52I mean, I thought week three did honestly, like, you know, I think it's, I think there's
14:58after that opener, it looked like it was going to be catastrophic.
15:01Right.
15:02And they bounced back and Todd had his moment where, you know, he said the, you know, had
15:09to ask that clip and I think people sat up in their chairs and they're like, okay, all
15:14right.
15:15Like they're, they're not just going to take punches and not respond.
15:19So, and then you have a couple of quality wins.
15:23And I, again, I think the offenses were, it worries me just because the overall production
15:30is not there, they're, they're, they're not turning the ball.
15:32The defense is playing well, like Mason Graham.
15:35I'd love to go back in social media and dig up the people who are killing Mason Graham,
15:40like, like the, the pick and, you know, the, the question about, you know, how can you give
15:45up, um, Travis Hunter and all this stuff.
15:48And then, and then, you know, I remember seeing like the practice snaps and Mason Graham, like
15:53the first training camp.
15:54And I saw people making like people with credibility, making remarks where they were
15:59just like burying this guy before he even had a chance to get his feet under him as,
16:05as an NFL player.
16:06So to see him playing well, um, you know, Ronnie Hickman, uh, you know, Carson Swezinger.
16:13I mean, the, the, the defense, I mean, Denzel Ward put the straps on Ted McMillan.
16:18I mean, it's the defense looks really, really good.
16:21And that's by the way, without Jared verse finishing, right?
16:26Like he's been okay.
16:27You know, he's certainly not played to the level that he played with the Rams.
16:30So you look at the, the defense and you go, wow, there's a lot of things to like, plus
16:33this guy who we know has a level in him that he's not playing to right now, he's versatile
16:40get there.
16:41So the defense, I think we'll get even better.
16:43I think from a credibility standpoint, if they can go out and have a decent offensive game,
16:48um, against the Steelers, then I think people are going to start to look at, at the Browns
16:52and go, okay, wait a minute.
16:53Like this defensively, they're a pretty good team.
16:57There's, there's talent all over the roster.
16:59There's young guys that are going to ascend as the season goes along and grow.
17:04Um, as I said, I think you're going to get more out of conception.
17:07I think Boston's been fantastic.
17:09Fannon looks every bit, the part we thought he could be.
17:13I, I, guys, even the stuff I've watched, like Rocket Sanders, even I'm like, man, look
17:18at this guy, like he's a productive piece for them on offense.
17:22I think, yeah, a win would, would make them make the Browns a conversation across the league
17:28about like, wow, this is turning the right direction.
17:31And maybe we actually need to take this, um, this star seriously.
17:35Charles, as always, you know, we appreciate talking to you, telling everybody to get on
17:38board with NFL blue book.
17:39And, uh, we look forward to talking to you next week too.
17:42Thanks, Charles.
17:42Thank you, Charles.
17:44Thanks guys.
17:44Have a good week.
17:45Enjoy the night.
17:46Yeah.
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