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00:00Kenny, looks like we have ourselves a quarterback for week two.
00:07We think.
00:10We think.
00:11I'm madder today than I was yesterday.
00:13I'm actually more upset today than I was yesterday.
00:15And it ain't even about his decision.
00:17It's about the whole thing that goes around it.
00:19Like, this is, like, of all the opinions of Nick that I attack,
00:24which is, I mean, you can make a laundry list.
00:27And we attack, honestly, because, I mean, well, you can.
00:31Sometimes they just don't seem to be the same from segment to segment.
00:34But either way, one of the things that he's steadfastly against
00:36that I've agreed with over the years has been the anti-tanking stance that he has.
00:42Because, see, when people advocate, the hardest advocates for tanking,
00:47the biggest advocates for tanking, are the people that just live on social media.
00:52Social media reactions on X are brought to you by.
00:54Shive and Jewelers, Cleveland's premier jewelry store.
00:56Like, they're not attached to an actual team.
00:59They don't live in our world.
01:01Like, I'm in Cleveland.
01:03You're in Cleveland.
01:04So, they don't go out and interact with –
01:08they're basically in this world like NFL network commercials are
01:12where everybody's just a fan of a different team.
01:15Remember the Kelsey Sunday ticket commercial that just came out?
01:18Yeah, I'm sure the Kelsies have friends that are fans of every single team in the NFL,
01:21and they're all wearing their gear to watch that.
01:23Yeah, that's exactly how real life works, right, wherever you live.
01:26But that's kind of the way they think.
01:28They don't think like fans do because they don't interact with them.
01:31They become too smart for their own good.
01:33And so, when they're the biggest advocates for tanking, I go,
01:37yeah, you say that, but then you leave to go cover the good teams,
01:40and then I'm left dealing with all this.
01:43And so are fans.
01:44They don't see the videos of fans putting themselves out saying that they're done.
01:48They don't see the videos of people setting jerseys on fire.
01:51They don't see the videos, or they don't care,
01:53that there's people who openly say they're not raising their kids as fans of the team
01:57that they grew up as fans with that they fought to keep here after 1995.
02:01See, that's my biggest issue with it.
02:03And yeah, it's 6.04, and I'm already ranting and raving on a Tuesday for crying out loud
02:06because that's where we're at.
02:08Because it's not just that they're bad.
02:11It's that they're bad, and they're not liked right now.
02:13And that's what makes it even worse, and it's just this sucking feeling every single day
02:20that we have to do it, and it's only week two, Anthony.
02:23Like, that's the issue.
02:25And the only way to do this, and what I'm stuck with is the only way to continue to go
02:29through
02:30is, all right, I guess I got to get to another quarterback next year,
02:34and there's no guarantee that that guy's going to work,
02:36but I just have to deal with this as best I can, and it already sucks.
02:42It already sucks.
02:44And so, I just see the way the fans react, and I'm seeing these fights over these quarterbacks,
02:52and I'm going, I don't think any of them are probably very good at all.
02:55Like, I'm not going to sit there and end relationships with people over this quarterback room.
03:00Well, and you think about just from the amount of fans that I've heard over the last few days,
03:04the amount of fans that were absolutely rooting for him to fall flat on his face,
03:09Deshaun Watson, any opener, okay, checkmark.
03:12Those fans will be gleeful if Baker Mayfield puts it on them in game two.
03:18These are Browns fans.
03:19These are diehard Browns fans.
03:21They know the team's not good, and they want this over as soon as possible.
03:24And they want, they want, it's sad that Todd gets immediately lumped into this very quickly,
03:32but they want anybody who had anything to do with the Watson thing, all the way up to, you know,
03:38idiot radio people who advocated for Deshaun Watson.
03:40They want everybody to be held accountable as soon as possible,
03:45and the fact that they couldn't believe that they would be forced to see him in training camp
03:52and have this competition and then have him win the competition
03:56and then have him have press conferences again,
03:59and then he attacks the fans in the press conferences.
04:02And so they want this to look as bad as humanly possible.
04:06And the fact that it's against Baker this week, just the all-time pile-on.
04:12Yeah.
04:13And he'll go out this week, and I don't expect him to do very well.
04:17Well, then we've got now that the pile-on is too much.
04:20Okay.
04:21Well, I had said that I thought I've seen him play way worse,
04:24but then PFF graded it out to be the worst game that he's ever played.
04:30So maybe I was wrong.
04:31I was like, man, even 16 completions,
04:34I feel like I've seen him have so many more turnover-worthy plays than I saw yesterday,
04:39and there were probably four.
04:40Did anybody really need PFF to tell them that that game was terrible?
04:44Did anybody really need that?
04:45Well, we all agreed it was terrible.
04:47The question was, how bad was it?
04:49I didn't think it was as bad as I've seen him.
04:51Like, I have called him out two years ago.
04:55I was like, this is not NFL football.
04:57And now he's had how many surgeries since then?
04:59That's why throughout all this stuff,
05:01because I know you like to have fun over the summertime
05:03and get all the Shador fans riled up.
05:05This is where you still haven't lost to me,
05:07is that I don't hear you making arguments because you've been worked up so much.
05:12And people have taken serious –
05:14I mean, people have sent you DMs making threats against you.
05:18You have still not let that affect you.
05:21Whereas I think there's been people who have gotten in fights
05:24with these Shador fans.
05:26Half of them are bots.
05:27And so what, they were forced to prop up to Sean?
05:30Well, it's that we're arguing for terrible quarterback
05:32because we want to be right over the other quarterback
05:35that still might end up not being good.
05:36I don't understand it.
05:38And I'm like, I'm not –
05:39guys, I'm just not going to get in a fight
05:41and end friendships or whatever based on this.
05:44It's not going to happen.
05:45Like, if you guys want to get into a fight this winter
05:48over Dante Moore and Arch Manning or Dante Moore
05:51and Lenora Sellers or CJ Carr and Arch Manning,
05:54like, fine.
05:54That, I can understand.
05:55There's actual, like, hey, these guys,
05:58one of them is going to be your quarterback for the foreseeable future
06:00and you're going to try to do your best
06:01and not repeat the same mistakes that you did with Baker Mayfield there.
06:04So that's worth doing.
06:06This is not worth having an argument over.
06:08I'm not going to sit there.
06:09Because there's no thought that he's going to turn it around.
06:12Well, yeah.
06:13And I keep getting the thought, well, Ken, you advocate for the other guy.
06:16He's better than the other guy.
06:18I go, one, no, I don't think that
06:20because one guy's not afraid to throw the football
06:22and that's Shador Sanders who's not afraid to throw the football.
06:25Two, I'm not saying he's going to be any good,
06:27but I know he's going to be more likable
06:28than what we're dealing with right now.
06:30I don't think Shador Sanders is going to turn around and rip on the fans.
06:33I mean, the season's young.
06:35Maybe that's going to be a possibility.
06:36But I don't think he's going to turn around.
06:38Yeah, we have seen a lot of players reverse course over their career.
06:41But yeah, obviously, Shador is the more likable, you know,
06:47ambassador for the football organization.
06:51Like, that's not going to be Deshaun Watson who clearly –
06:54I mean, I saw people tweeting yesterday, is there a chance he quits?
06:58Is there a chance that Deshaun Watson is so far removed
07:02from what he was as an NFL quarterback
07:04and so far removed his doing, of course,
07:07from the model quarterback that everybody in the league was embracing
07:12and talking about his leadership abilities
07:15and his truly rags-to-riches story.
07:17Remember the early stories about him, you know,
07:20coming into the NFL from the projects,
07:23and this was such a great story of a young African-American man.
07:26Now he's just the most hated guy in the league.
07:28That's just not a Cleveland thing.
07:30That's everywhere.
07:31So the damage that he has done,
07:35on top of having to subject the Browns fans to another season of this,
07:42a whole nother – it might only be two games of this.
07:44It might only be a game and a half.
07:45In fact, there were times I thought he was going to get benched
07:48towards the end of the fourth quarter
07:49and that it could be permanent of that game.
07:52Yeah, but I just – I'm sorry.
07:54I had to let that out because I just think that the biggest advocates
07:57are holier-than-thou bloggers who just don't interact with real fans
08:01on a day-to-day basis.
08:02I think they've insulated themselves with each other
08:05and they don't – like they don't go to a grocery store
08:08and see a guy in a Jets jersey or a Commander's jersey
08:12or a Dolphins jersey or wherever where it's like,
08:15hey, you know, what were you saying five years ago
08:17when they were losing on purpose?
08:18What were you saying on 10 years ago when they were losing on purpose?
08:21Oh, you just moved on to the teams that were competitive?
08:23That's it?
08:24And you just left us sitting here languishing with this?
08:26Because it's amazing that the teams that are always being told
08:29they need to lose, they just continue to lose.
08:31They just continue to do it.
08:33Like that's where, you know, you asked me the question about
08:36is it better to just be the Browns instead of the Steelers
08:39where you're like – you're in the middle but you're not doing anything?
08:42It's like I don't have fans making videos saying
08:44that they're not raising their kids Steelers fans anymore.
08:46Like that's what scares me.
08:49And I understand you get that guy and you have some success
08:52and that'll make it all go away, but you've already bet on that before
08:56and you already failed at it miserably.
08:58That's why we continue to have this.
09:00That's what makes me so angry.
09:02So were you even angrier than yesterday that Todd left it open
09:06about the quarterback situation?
09:07Do you think he should have just benched Deshaun Watson for good
09:10after one game?
09:12See, part of me –
09:13It's his football team, man.
09:13You go right on ahead.
09:14Ronnie Hickman didn't make me feel very confident in the situation,
09:17but, I mean, Ronnie Hickman's had his own problems right now with that defense.
09:21So I don't know.
09:22They all had problems.
09:22That was an odd answer.
09:24Go ahead.
09:24What were you going to say then?
09:25Well, the reason I ask the question is I'm trying to give some benefit of the doubt
09:31to the head coach who the honeymoon period has ended, has crashed, is over.
09:37People want divorce proceedings already over this decision.
09:41That's how catastrophic that type of game in game one where you're non-competitive.
09:45You have a whole league of offenses putting up points all over the board
09:48because defenses aren't necessarily ready here in this week one.
09:51There are some trends that, you know, John will update you on a little bit later on in the show.
09:56But it was so ugly for a lot of defenses.
09:58So that's why I told you yesterday I had to take a little step back.
10:01It's tough talking as I was about the defense.
10:03It's like, yeah, new defensive coordinator.
10:06There's a whole, you know, Swessinger coming back.
10:09Hadn't played in the preseason.
10:10Boy, was he rusty.
10:12Williams was not good at all.
10:14There's a lot of bad tape on it.
10:15Whatever.
10:16Besides all of that.
10:17So I want to give a little bit of the benefit of the doubt to the coach.
10:21Now, he lost that benefit of the doubt with a lot of the Shador fans
10:24because they are all screaming, you said this, this, and this about operations,
10:29and then your quarterback comes out and can't handle the operations.
10:32And all I could say the whole time was, I think Todd thinks it's worse with the backup when it
10:37comes to that.
10:37But it's like, how could it possibly be?
10:39I'd rather find out if it was worse with the backup.
10:40Why not just say he's younger?
10:41Why not just, but that's what we said that all preseason.
10:43Younger and more likable.
10:45I don't even care about the likable for Todd.
10:47Okay.
10:47Well, that's.
10:48Like, Todd, Todd can't worry about who's likable.
10:51I understand that.
10:51When he's trotting out a quarterback that he's trying, he's being commissioned to find a guy who can win.
10:56Totally agree.
10:57But we've already reached a point here.
10:59We're already early.
11:00I'm like, hey, I just kind of want to, I just kind of want to see something that's not going
11:05to have people, you know,
11:07sending me books in DMs about how much they hate the quarterback and how they're rethinking their fandom and things
11:13like that.
11:14I don't think Shador does that to people.
11:17Dylan Gabriel didn't do that to people.
11:19I don't think Taylor Greene will do that to people.
11:20And we'll probably see all of them at some point.
11:22They already booed.
11:23They already booed one of them when he tried to go into a game last year for one play.
11:27I think that was a Kevin booing, but either way, either way.
11:30But regardless, all I'm saying is that if you are still willing to give the coach after one game, one
11:38game, the benefit of the doubt.
11:39I don't know if they are.
11:40They are.
11:40I can tell you they are.
11:41But if you're trying to be as fair as possible, like a coach Riz, who's trying to look at it
11:46like that, or somebody, some national people, too, who are trying to at least be a little bit fair and
11:52breaking down some other issues, too.
11:54You would say like, all right, you had two quarterbacks split reps.
11:58That's never ideal to begin with.
11:59You'd like to have a starting quarterback.
12:01Todd said he'd rather have a starting quarterback going into a training camp.
12:04That obviously couldn't happen.
12:06So they're splitting reps, and you do have a new offensive line, new terminology, new coach.
12:12We kind of touched on the terminology yesterday that I think it'd probably be wise to simplify for all parties
12:17involved.
12:18Shouldn't take 15 seconds to run through.
12:21And I saw, I watched Deshaun Watson look at his play sheet, and his mouth was talking for 15 seconds.
12:27I'm like, well, let's cut that down in half immediately, I think, for all parties involved, regardless of who's quarterbacking.
12:33You also have two rookies out there playing wide receiver for you, and you're giving routes like that.
12:37Yeah.
12:38Yeah.
12:39I think everybody could be served better by, let's just say, optimizing that experience.
12:46Real quick, I want to go back to your point.
12:48I think we're going to have to find, by the way, have to find a way to do that.
12:50Because, you know, in college, it's not as in-depth when it comes to play calls as it is in
12:55the NFL.
12:55And it's like, these guys are still expected to play early.
12:59Your job's still on the line.
13:00Like, we're going to have to simplify this.
13:03Like, I know that we like to show off and bust or bluff and da-da-da-da-da-da
13:08-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
13:10Dude, it's John Gruden.
13:11That's great for, yeah.
13:13Yeah.
13:15I'm not doing it.
13:16That's it.
13:17Not this early.
13:17Not when you're-
13:18Flip-rite-double-X-jet.
13:20No, I'm not doing the rest of it.
13:21Like, I know we like to show off and have fun with that, but it's just not computing.
13:26All I'm saying is there are a lot of reasons, and I gave a bunch of these reasons.
13:30You gave a bunch of these reasons why.
13:33Honestly, had it have been Shador, had it have been Dylan Gabriel, had it been Taylor Green,
13:38had it have been any young quarterback, and Deshaun's not young,
13:43but he's been removed from football for two years,
13:46it's very plausible that when he sucked every time we saw him two years ago
13:51that this was going to be an even worse version.
13:54It does, there is logic there that you could say if you're Todd Munkin,
14:01there are things, hey, now I've seen him in a game,
14:03there are things I could do to make life easier on him or any quarterback for week two.
14:09The problem is, where do you think this is going?
14:12We all know where it's going.
14:14We all know it's going to, so that's why I asked you,
14:18are you annoyed that he didn't just pull the plug yesterday when given the chance?
14:25Yes.
14:26Are you?
14:27Yeah.
14:27Okay.
14:28Yeah.
14:29I'm glad we got that.
14:30Does anybody think we would have jumped on him?
14:33Well, because...
14:34If he would have made a substitution then?
14:36I know it sounds ridiculous after one week, but it does then lead to,
14:40was your whole process horrific?
14:42If we're even talking about that after one week.
14:43Or why didn't you just start Shadour in the first place?
14:46Yes.
14:46Well, he would have.
14:47But who cares?
14:48Well, the whole argument, the whole argument, like I heard Coach Lance,
14:53and maybe I misinterpreted him, but the argument I'm hearing against it,
14:58and you said it as well, and I think I've said it's like,
15:00well, you know, if you make this switch too soon,
15:03it's like you don't, it looks like you don't know what you're doing.
15:05I don't know, it looked like you didn't know what you were doing on Sunday.
15:09So, I mean, you can keep going down that hole and say,
15:12well, I want to save face and have it look like I know what I'm doing,
15:15but does it look like you know what you're doing?
15:17Well, I think Todd would tell you every step of the way,
15:20this is me defending him.
15:21I don't know how much defending I'll be doing this year of him,
15:25but obviously he didn't think Shadour seized the job, right?
15:30We talked about this a lot every day.
15:34Did Deshaun seize the job?
15:35Well, you didn't care.
15:36You didn't care.
15:36No, no, no, no.
15:37The tie just went to the veteran.
15:38No, the tie went to the veteran,
15:40and that's certainly going to be up for,
15:43especially when everybody hates the veteran.
15:46But I don't think anybody can argue, like, had Shadour have seized it,
15:50Todd would have run over to make the change.
15:53Would he not have?
15:54Would he not have stumbled over himself to declare Shadour the starter?
15:58I'd hope so.
15:58Had he have been advanced and way above?
16:00I would hope so.
16:01Would he have not have?
16:01I would hope so.
16:02Why wouldn't he?
16:03What coach wouldn't he?
16:05What coach wouldn't have been thrilled for a year two player to be able to do that?
16:09Because we do have such a thing as preconceived notions,
16:12and when we're getting texts in January that he liked Deshaun Watson,
16:16you know, that's going to go a long way.
16:17So you don't want to sit there and second guess yourself.
16:20Do you think he didn't like Shadour?
16:22Oh, I don't think he didn't like Shadour.
16:24I mean, how could you not have gifted him a horse head?
16:26I would, if Shadour gave me a horse head,
16:28there'd be hard for me to say anything bad about him.
16:30And Todd's actually brought that up that he gave that.
16:32Yeah.
16:33Do you think he was open to it?
16:35Was Shadour?
16:36Yeah, I think he was open to it.
16:38Or was he not?
16:39Because Shadour fans think it was never.
16:41It was preconceived.
16:41It was predetermined.
16:42I think he was open to it.
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