00:00It's hard to find somebody, Lance, who epitomized what it means to be a Cleveland Brown more so than Nick
00:07Chubb.
00:08And the unfortunate part of this is, I saw people debating if he's a Hall of Famer.
00:14I don't think he is, because the numbers aren't going to quite be there.
00:18He only made four Pro Bowls, he was only a second-team All-Pro one time, and he was never
00:22a first-team All-Pro.
00:23So, the unfortunate thing is, he was on that trajectory before, obviously, we know, the gruesome knee injury in 2022
00:32that essentially derailed his, or 2023, excuse me, that derailed his career.
00:38Well, you know, for me, Nick Chubb is, very rarely do you find a guy that everybody likes.
00:45You know, talk about our quarterback competition is a great example.
00:47It's a good point, actually.
00:48Everybody has a side, and everybody's passionate about who they like, and they should be.
00:52For me, it's always been about investment.
00:54I never wanted to coach or cover a team where people aren't invested.
00:57And when you have investment, when you like a team, you like your player, you back them.
01:03And that's what's great about Nick Chubb, is that you don't find anybody who doesn't like Nick Chubb.
01:07And for me, I always think of it, the thing that, as a sportsman first, as a Cleveland fan, he
01:12was incredible.
01:13Incredible to watch.
01:14I think he's a Hall of Famer here in Cleveland for what he did for the Browns.
01:18I don't think the numbers will kind of match when you talk about a Hall of Famer overall.
01:24But the thing I will always remember about Nick Chubb is that every time I watched him practice,
01:28and I got to watch him practice for three years, when he was in his prime, he was acting like
01:33he was fighting for a job.
01:35Every run, so they would start a play.
01:37It would be on their own 20.
01:39They would be running a play.
01:40He would run 80 yards.
01:42Get back in the huddle, run 80 yards.
01:44Back in the huddle, run 80 yards.
01:46Never said a word.
01:47Always kind to everybody.
01:49So as a fan first, absolutely loved him.
01:52Cleveland fan was incredible.
01:54But as a coach, he's kind of the guy you want.
01:56He's a no-nonsense guy.
01:58He doesn't say much.
01:59He's not going to bring – he's the leader in terms of, like, I'm just going to give you my
02:03all-time effort.
02:04I'm not going to say much.
02:06You know, I wish him the best.
02:07He was incredible here in Cleveland.
02:09It was sad to see him hang him up.
02:11But, obviously, the type of style running, you know, those backs, it's a short – it's a short, very short
02:16shelf life.
02:17And when they go, they go fast just because there's only so many hits you can take in the NFL.
02:21Well, and you bring up, like, the overarching point here, which is it's rare you find a player that everybody
02:28resoundingly supports.
02:30It doesn't matter.
02:31Even Miles, who was here at the same time, obviously, and stayed, you know, a few years beyond what Nick
02:36Chubb was here, Miles – there was some controversy there with Miles.
02:41Like, not like controversy like he was doing bad things, but the controversy among the fan base.
02:46Like, there was always the debates of, is he a good leader, right?
02:49That came up – that's come up a lot this year because everyone's comparing him to Jared Verse right now.
02:53But that also came up during his career, asking whether or not he was really the guy that could, like,
03:00set the tone for the locker room and all those things.
03:02And then you had the trade request two years ago, or I guess it was technically last year, last offseason.
03:08And I think that sort of soured some people on Miles Garrett, and they were like, eh, this guy doesn't
03:13really want to be here.
03:15And there was all those conversations.
03:16That was never – like, Nick Chubb was always like, Cleveland Browns through and through.
03:20He said that in the post, right?
03:22At the end, he had, like, the go Dawgs, go Browns in honor of Georgia and obviously Cleveland.
03:27So, yes, like, everybody loved Nick Chubb, and that is a rare, rare thing to find in any sport.
03:36Think about, like – think about LeBron.
03:39LeBron is considered, like, the greatest athlete from this area of all time.
03:43What a championship.
03:44What a championship here.
03:45And because he left twice, he's a controversial figure.
03:49Nick Chubb is somebody that left last year because of the circumstances, and the team wasn't going to bring him
03:55back again.
03:56And people in Cleveland were still like, I hope Nick Chubb goes and has, you know, a really successful season
04:02with the Houston Texans,
04:03or however long that could have potentially turned out to be.
04:06And now that he's, like, retiring, it's just like a flood of memories that people had about him.
04:12He is universally lauded here in Cleveland, rightfully so.
04:17And that is a special, special thing.
04:18And I think it speaks to the other point you made.
04:20Like, part of the reason people loved him was because he was that guy that was like, I'm just going
04:26to let my work speak for me.
04:28I'm not going to come out here and have to, like, be, you know, boisterous and, like, in your face.
04:34We know how he always felt about doing media and press conferences.
04:37He didn't want to do all that stuff.
04:38He just wanted to come out and show you on the field who he was, whether it was the practice
04:43field, whether it was the game field.
04:46And there's actually, I think there was a clip one time of him and Kareem Hunt talking about a play
04:52or something like that.
04:53And Kareem was like, I want the ball.
04:55I want the ball or something like that.
04:56And Nick just looks at him.
04:57He's just like, I just want to win.
04:59And that's the stuff that I'm talking about.
05:00That's the stuff that endeared in the Browns fans because, to use LeBron as an example here, that whole line
05:05of, like, in Cleveland, nothing's given, everything is earned.
05:09I think Cleveland, like, that resonates with Cleveland beyond just LeBron.
05:13That's, like, across the board.
05:15Clevelanders feel like that's the case.
05:17It's a very blue-collar town, as we know.
05:19And nobody was more blue-collar than Nick Chubb was.
05:23Well, like I said, when I was watching, I remember the first practice I was at.
05:27And you're like, you know, I'm down there.
05:29I don't know anybody.
05:30I'm not talking to anybody.
05:31And at that point in time, I'm just there as a coach, really.
05:34And I'm watching Nick Chubb.
05:36And I remember texting my wife or whoever it was saying, this guy's acting.
05:40He's fighting for a job.
05:41He's arguably the best running back in the league.
05:44And he's trying not to miss reps.
05:46He's every drill.
05:47He's first.
05:47It was a pleasure to watch.
05:49He's pretty fantastic.
05:51I do.
05:52I wish him the best.
05:52And going back to Miles, Gary, it tells you, once again, I always talk about different
05:56types of leadership.
05:58Miles didn't say much, neither did Nick Chubb.
06:00But it's how you handle yourself and, you know, going on.
06:03For me, people soured on Miles when he did that, when he did his thing on Meteor Row.
06:08That's something you know Nick Chubb would never do.
06:10And when that happens.
06:11But Nick Chubb didn't say much as a leader either.
06:13It's just kind of the perception of how, you know, perception is reality.
06:16And for him, it was just, he wanted to be here.
06:19Everybody felt like he wanted to be here.
06:20And again, I wish him the best.
06:22He was awesome to watch for a lot of years.
06:25Yeah.
06:25And so, the conversation, I think, from here, and this is the fun part of this I wanted
06:31to get into.
06:32You agree he's probably not a Hall of Famer, right?
06:35Because the numbers aren't quite good.
06:36Yeah, I got to say no, just because, you know, I was looking at the numbers.
06:38When you and I talked yesterday, I was like, yeah, that's a great question.
06:41I looked up a bunch of stuff and a bunch of people who haven't gotten in with similar
06:45stats.
06:45It's no, but here in Cleveland, he should be.
06:48Right?
06:48There is a bias here in Cleveland.
06:50He is a ring of honor without question, really fast, in my opinion.
06:54Yeah.
06:55I, unfortunately, like I saw people giving their, their essays on Twitter about why he
07:02should be a Hall of Famer, despite maybe not having the numbers.
07:04And I understand where people are coming from with that.
07:07Unfortunately, the Micah, the Micah, the Minka Fitzpatrick hit that, that, you know,
07:14blew out his knee, the same knee he injured in college, that derailed his Hall of Fame
07:20trajectory.
07:20Because he was on that trajectory leading up to that moment.
07:24And I think it's real, it's, it's really like these last three years in particular that
07:28he lost.
07:28He didn't, he only played two games in 2023 and because of the, because he suffered the
07:33injury that week.
07:34Then the next year he's out pretty much half the season comes back.
07:38Then he gets injured late in the season again for like the last two games, whatever it was.
07:41And then last year he played for Houston, but it wasn't like in an impactful way because
07:45the injury, I think it kind of D and he wasn't the same player anymore.
07:49Right?
07:50Um, I think the losing these last three years, the way that he did, I think is the thing that,
07:57uh, it hurts the most to, to kind of have to swallow that.
08:01But I also think that's why he's probably out of the Hall of Fame.
08:04Cause he's, I mean, he's only 30 and yes, you're right.
08:07Running backs only get so much wear and tear on their bodies.
08:10But I think like if he's held, if he doesn't have that injury, like the last three years,
08:14he's probably on, on a Hall of Fame trajectory.
08:15And then even if he starts deteriorating now at 30 and beyond, it's like, okay, you're just
08:20kind of bolstering a potential Hall of Fame resume.
08:22So I think losing the last three years hurt his case.
08:25I agree with you that he's in the ring of honor here in Cleveland without question.
08:31I, I, I, I saw somebody post this and I think it's a good question.
08:35Is he a top 10 Cleveland Browns player of all time?
08:38And, and, and this is a fun exercise that we can kind of have here on the air and feel
08:42free to jump in as well.
08:43If you have some thoughts on this two on six, four, seven, four, double, nine, two is Nick
08:46Chubb a top 10 Cleveland Brown of all time.
08:48And I know there's going to be some recency bias here to a degree, but I, I, and this isn't
08:53just by the way, I'm not looking at this from just a standpoint of like the best players
08:58of all time.
08:58Cause if it's the best players of all time, then it's like Jim Brown and Miles Garrett
09:01are one and two, but I'm talking like the full package of, I don't know.
09:04I'm not with you on two.
09:06I'm with you on one.
09:07You're not with me on two.
09:08I'm not with you on two.
09:09If you're just talking like from the talent perspective.
09:11No, I'm just talking about guys, hall of fame guys who I think impacted the game.
09:15I got him there, but he's not, he's not mine too.
09:18Well, no, no, no.
09:18I'm saying if we're just talking like talent wise, like if we're just, if we take a step
09:23back and we, cause I'm not, when I'm talking about Nick Chubb potentially being in the top
09:2610, I'm thinking big picture, like impact on Cleveland, impact on the team, impact on winning,
09:33how good of a player they were.
09:35I'm thinking like all of that.
09:37But if you're talking just talent, I think the two most talented Browns players of all
09:41time are Miles Garrett and Jim Brown.
09:44Do you not agree with that?
09:46You know, when you talk, so if we're talking, those two guys are freaks.
09:49Well, if we're talking, if we're talking pure talent, so that's the only thing on the
09:53board.
09:53Yeah.
09:54Then Josh Gordon's the best Brown ever.
09:56That's why I can, that's why that's, that's fair.
09:59I mean, shorter stint here.
10:00Yes.
10:00But once again, if the, if the criteria for me is just talent, like, like you put them
10:06in a like combine, so it'd be those three, like Josh Gordon, like probably Jim Brown and
10:09Miles Garrett.
10:10Yeah.
10:10Yeah.
10:11So once again, cause I've never seen anybody like Josh Gordon, what he would do to NFL
10:17defenses with his speed.
10:18I mean, he was a slot receiver at six, four, whatever he was.
10:21So I, once again, I think there has to be more for me, there's more, that's why I got
10:25autogrammed too, right.
10:26There has to be more involved with it when they played, uh, you know, the autogram was in a run
10:30era through the ball.
10:31Well, miles Garrett's the right there too, though.
10:33Don't get me wrong.
10:34But once again, I tried not to have that, you know, throw some of my dad's guys in there
10:38and some of his reasoning on why he thought those guys were the best.
10:40I honestly think one of the best Nick Chubb moments was after the injury, when he came
10:44back in 23, after he'd gone through some of his rehab and he, he smashed the guitar,
10:50the guitar smash on, which is it's, it's like an off the field moment.
10:54But the night that the Browns clinched a playoff berth against the jets in 2023, it was a Thursday
11:01night game after Christmas and he was the guitar smasher.
11:04And that play, I mean, that stadium was a vibe that night.
11:07So to have Nick Chubb come out, I mean, it was as loud as it could be in that stadium
11:11when
11:11he came out of that tunnel.
11:12So I love that one on top of all the other highlights that are out there, but yeah, that's
11:16another sort of fun exercise.
11:17I don't know if you have a favorite moment at all.
11:19Well, you know, it's funny.
11:19I'm going to, I'm going to go with my boring coach moments, but my moments come in practice
11:23with him.
11:24And like I stated earlier, just his answer, I get it.
11:28It's very, very boring, very boring coach answer.
11:31But when you, you know, in this day and age where everybody, it's a self gratification
11:35era, right?
11:36Look at me.
11:37I'm important.
11:38That's just how the society is with social media.
11:40And I get it all.
11:41And that's what kids are.
11:42And that's what they do now.
11:43But when you go out and watch him practice, you would have no idea.
11:46He would talk to all the other backs.
11:48So you're talking early in camp when there's three or four rookies who are not there.
11:52He's working hard.
11:53They're not going to be there when the season starts.
11:55He's working harder than them.
11:56He's coaching them up.
11:58He's always first in drills.
11:59He's always kind.
12:00I remember he did not like talking to all, everybody in the media, but he was very, very
12:05kind.
12:06He, you know, he just, for me, it was just his humbleness.
12:09You know, we were talking about the three years he lost.
12:11So, you know, and let's say, you know, he averages a thousand yards minimum.
12:15He's healthy, then you're talking 10,000, 11,000 yards.
12:19Now that hall of fame stuff is in, uh, in picture.
12:22But for me, uh, just the ability to fight for a job that is yours, but you still don't.
12:29And that's kind of one of the, everything is earned kind of thing.
12:31He exemplified that.
12:33And that's what endeared him to people is that he just, and everything you saw on the field
12:37is exactly what you saw in practice.
12:38And exactly what you saw when you talked to him.
12:40I remember like literally standing next to him saying, your knee looks great.
12:43He was like, yeah, I worked really hard.
12:45It was it.
12:46I was like, it's just, it's awesome.
12:48He was just such a humble guy.
12:49It was, uh, uh, once again, you try to, for me, I always have like, even in my top 10,
12:53it's okay to want him in the hall of fame.
12:55That's part of sports.
12:56That's part of the investment.
12:57That's part of your fan.
12:58Like my top, my number 10 doesn't maybe not belong in hall of fame, but he's my favorite
13:02player of all time and he's close.
13:04So you throw him in there.
13:05Cause that's what it's about.
13:06No, that's fair.
13:07Um, yeah, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm getting people texting me about like other players
13:12debating whether or not they're in the hall of fame and all this different stuff.
13:15So listen, we'll let the other people litigate that when the time comes.
13:18I ultimately don't think he's going to have enough to get in, but for the, for the Browns,
13:23of course, he'll be honored.
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