- 2 days ago
Grant & Danny are joined by Red Sox broadcaster Will Flemming to get Boston's perspective on the trade that sent Connelly Early to the Washington Nationals. What did the Red Sox see in making the deal? How was Early viewed within Boston's organization? And what can Nationals fans expect from the young left-hander moving forward?
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00:00I want to get into the Nats trade for Connolly early.
00:03We had him on the show yesterday.
00:05Got a lot of insight from him on his pitch mix
00:07and some of the development with Boston.
00:09A lot of that attributed to Paul Taboney early on
00:12before he came over to the Nats.
00:13So if you missed that interview, please grab that audio
00:15wherever you get your podcasts.
00:17But right now I wanted to talk to someone
00:19who's been on the call in the booth
00:21and has seen all of his work in the big leagues,
00:23discuss the other part of this deal
00:25with Curtis Mead going to Boston as well.
00:27And that's our buddy Will Fleming,
00:28who's the voice of the Boston Red Sox
00:30and a buddy of the program.
00:32He used to work with us here at the fan many moons ago.
00:35Will, good to talk to you again.
00:36Danny's out today on vacation.
00:37Toby is in.
00:38Hope all is well.
00:39How are you?
00:40I'm great, man.
00:41Those were moons ago.
00:42I thought you wanted me to come on
00:44and break down Steph Diggs
00:45in his year with the Patriots last season
00:47and why the Commanders have not signed it.
00:49But I'm happy to talk about Connolly early,
00:51one of my favorites that we've had in some time
00:53and always great to be with you.
00:55Well, we might get to Stephon Diggs.
00:57Don't you worry about that.
00:58We don't do many segments around these parts
01:00when we don't talk about wide receivers.
01:02But, yeah, Connolly early.
01:04I mean, your thoughts on what he is now,
01:06what he could kind of turn into.
01:07The Nats are very, very high on his upside.
01:11They should be.
01:12What he is right now, Grant,
01:14I know you guys have talked to Paul about this a lot.
01:16I think the thing that set Connolly apart with the Red Sox
01:20and that I'm pretty confident will continue to do so with the Nats,
01:24is that, you know, he, as everyone knows,
01:28he signed on to go to West Point as a skinny,
01:31little, soft-talking left-hander.
01:33And, obviously, he matured there and transferred over to UVA.
01:37But even in college, I mean, he was throwing 83 miles an hour.
01:41But he found ways to get everybody out.
01:44And I think that that's such a contrast to the way that most pitchers do it now.
01:50I mean, everybody's at all these showcases,
01:52and it's just prospects galore.
01:54And it's how hard do you throw and all these pitch shapes and all this stuff.
01:58Connolly just found ways to get people out.
02:01And he became a pitcher in the truest sense of the word
02:05and then got stronger and bigger and started throwing harder.
02:09And that pitchability just did not go away.
02:11So I think that's a pretty special combo.
02:13I think it's easier.
02:14I think this is what the modern GM believes now.
02:17It's easier to build strength and velocity
02:20than it is teaching people how to actually get people out.
02:24And to pitch.
02:24And so I think that's what has made Connolly so special.
02:28I think the Red Sox believe,
02:30and Paul was a big part of this while he was here,
02:33that I think they now have a firm belief
02:35that their pitching infrastructure can just kind of build all these people.
02:39And I think, Jake Bennett is the latest example of that.
02:41They have a prototype for what they want
02:44without getting too much into the weeds of that.
02:46They really believe that they've just got the pipeline
02:49and the assembly line of young pitchers going,
02:53which is why I think they felt,
02:55I wouldn't say comfortable is the right word,
02:57because I think they were uncomfortable giving up on Connolly.
02:59He's a total stud, both as a pitcher and as a person,
03:03as a friend to so many in our clubhouse.
03:06So it was a really tough call.
03:07But we can get into why the deal was made
03:10and what modern baseball trades look like right now.
03:12But I think the Red Sox felt like the time was right.
03:14Yeah, I feel like, Will,
03:16everybody that we've heard from, yourself included,
03:19talks so highly about Connolly the guy
03:21and obviously how good of friends he was
03:24with so many guys in that Red Sox clubhouse.
03:26Tell us a little bit more about him as a person.
03:29We had him on the show yesterday, got to know him a little bit.
03:32But what have been some of your interactions
03:33with Connolly early, the person?
03:36Well, I mean, he's just kind and very sincere.
03:39He's a hard worker.
03:40I mean, I do think that that military background
03:42is a real part of who he is.
03:44And yet he's not, you know, he's not Jughead.
03:47I mean, he is intelligent.
03:49He looks you right in the eye.
03:51He is the funniest thing for us these last year plus.
03:56And I think the hardest part for the Red Sox
03:58is that we got this other guy, Peyton Tolley,
04:00who throws 100, who is a complete joker.
04:04And yet he's a guy who lost his mother to cancer
04:07several years ago.
04:08And so he, too, is like this genuine, sincere person,
04:11but also flamethrower and a comedian
04:14and a performer on the mound.
04:16Connolly is none of that.
04:18I mean, Connolly is all business, really.
04:20I mean, he's very fun to be around off the field.
04:22But when he steps between the lines,
04:24I mean, he really is all business.
04:26And yet the two of them developed this odd couple friendship.
04:30And there were so many moments
04:32where the television cameras would catch the two of them
04:36in the dugout during games when they weren't pitching.
04:39Like, Tolley would have his head on Early's left shoulder
04:43and they'd be laughing like little kids.
04:44And I think all of us in Boston were expecting that for,
04:48you know, the better part of the next decade,
04:49that the two of them would be linked at the hip
04:52and that we'd watch them pitch in a lot of big games.
04:54So I think that part was the real jarring element of it.
04:58But, yeah, Connolly, you guys are going to love him.
05:00You are.
05:01And everybody in that room is going to love him.
05:03And I think I was on with you guys when you hired Paul Saboni.
05:07And I know that one of the things I told you
05:11about what makes Paul great at what he does
05:14is that he gets all the analytics.
05:15He knows all the numbers.
05:16He is spectacular at sort of combining all those things.
05:20But one of the things that Paul wants the most
05:23and one of the things that he scouts for the most
05:25is good people, character people.
05:28This is a hard game.
05:30Seasons get long and you've got to fight through it.
05:32And Connolly has, you know, infinite character.
05:35And I think that's one of the main reasons Paul
05:37was so drawn to go and get him again.
05:40Well, Fleming, voice of the Red Sox,
05:42you guys have got a good player
05:43and a really well-respected guy, too, in this deal.
05:46And Curtis Mead, four years of control left.
05:49And to Taboni and the Nats credit, Blake Buterin Company,
05:52they have unearthed the gem.
05:54I mean, they got him for next to nothing.
05:55Now, the prospect they traded
05:57has turned out to be a pretty good one, it would appear.
05:59But they drafted a catcher in the sixth round.
06:01They flipped to the White Sox as Mead was being.
06:03DFA didn't make the roster.
06:05And they kind of viewed this, I think,
06:07as playing a stock market and flipping a house.
06:09But I will say that they think Curtis Mead
06:11is kind of what he's going to be.
06:12They think he's going to be a really, really good player now.
06:14And this is the rest of his career
06:16as a former top prospect.
06:17I know he debuted last night.
06:19He got hit and left the game.
06:21But x-rays were negative, from what I read.
06:23How hurt is he?
06:25Do we know yet?
06:26I'll know in about two hours.
06:28We're out on the West Coast.
06:29So it's still 2 o'clock here.
06:31I know he's undergoing more testing.
06:33He seemed pretty upbeat about it last night.
06:35But as you know, it's the night after that matters.
06:38The day after that matters.
06:39Things can swell up.
06:40And initial x-rays negative.
06:43You really just hold your breath
06:44and hope that he's OK.
06:46Even if it's just a couple of days
06:48and he gets right for the Dodgers series
06:50that this weekend brings to us.
06:54I think, Grant, that the Red Sox firmly believe
06:57all the things that you just said.
06:58And the glass half-empty perspective would say,
07:01yeah, the Nets are smart, right?
07:03They got this guy for nothing.
07:04They flipped him for a controllable pitcher.
07:06That might well be the way this thing plays out.
07:09But I would say two things, Grant.
07:11Number one, when you get playing time
07:13and you come into your prime years,
07:14maybe you do figure something out.
07:15And maybe something really has clicked for him.
07:18The other thing that Craig Breslow
07:19and his regime have just nailed
07:22is that our ballpark is so different
07:25from every other yard.
07:26Fenway is, it should be,
07:28the best home field advantage in the world.
07:30And all of a sudden, it has started to be that way.
07:33And a big part of that is
07:35that Craig and his staff
07:38have identified guys who have swings made for Fenway.
07:40And two guys we brought over this year,
07:42Wilson Contreras and this guy, Caleb Durbin,
07:44have both started to just absolutely mash at Fenway Park.
07:48And I think they think that that will happen with me,
07:50that if he'd been at Fenway for all of his home games,
07:54I think I heard one of our people say
07:56he'd have eight more home runs this year.
07:57So then all of a sudden,
07:58you're talking about a guy with 25 tanks
08:02who's tailor-made for your yard.
08:04You know, the defense is the defense,
08:05but they're comfortable with him at second base.
08:07I really think they think the swing path,
08:09the stance, the hand position,
08:11all this stuff is sustainable
08:13and that he can be a real anchoring bat for us.
08:16Were you shocked to see this trade come down?
08:18I mean, for us,
08:20we expected the Nationals to make some moves.
08:23I don't think any of us expected
08:24Curtis Meade to be on the move.
08:26Connolly Early was on with us yesterday,
08:27said that he was kind of shocked.
08:29He expected a phone call from,
08:30when he saw Breslow was calling,
08:32he kind of just assumed it was something about his rehab,
08:34not that he was getting traded.
08:35What was some of the reaction for you
08:37when you saw that this trade came down?
08:39Yeah, I was shocked right away.
08:41I mean, I just thought, you know,
08:43Grant and I talked sort of offline.
08:44I didn't think that Connolly would be on the table
08:47because he's that important to the present
08:49and the future for the Red Sox.
08:51But again, as it kind of settled in with me,
08:54it started to make a little bit more sense
08:57because they do have so much young pitching,
08:59the Red Sox do,
09:00and they have a real need.
09:02And I think I was stunned to see his name gone,
09:05especially because Meade was nowhere in my mind.
09:08I mean, we were talking in Boston
09:10about all kinds of big fish they're trying to land.
09:12I mean, they are in the market
09:13to try to make more big moves.
09:15And I would not have been surprised
09:16had Connolly's name been a part of a deal
09:18that brought more of like a, you know,
09:20a brand name star.
09:22But again, you'd start to peel back
09:24what Curtis is really becoming right now as a hitter.
09:28And then I think the other thing, Toby,
09:30that really stands out to me
09:32is that number one, you set the market,
09:34you get seven or eight more games
09:35in theory with Curtis
09:36in a critical stretch
09:37where you're trying to really
09:38get yourself solidified in the playoff race
09:41and get some distance between you
09:43and some of the teams behind you.
09:45But I think that one of the things
09:47that strikes me now
09:48is that baseball is run by so many people
09:50who come off the same tree
09:52and they all view the world the same way.
09:54And so they've all got the same information.
09:56It used to be you'd have a new school GM.
09:58This is not the Billy Bean Moneyball era anymore.
10:00You're not pulling one over
10:02on like an old school veteran GM
10:04who's trying to go for it one last time
10:06with a dying owner
10:07and he's willing to chip off young talent
10:09for an aging star.
10:10That just doesn't happen anymore.
10:12And so I think that one of the things
10:14that the Red Sox are trying to do
10:16with Craig is still relatively new on the job
10:18is understand that every young GM,
10:22I think, especially early on the job,
10:24wants to win every baseball transaction.
10:27That is not possible
10:29when everybody's trying to do the same thing
10:30and has the same information.
10:32So sometimes you just got to go,
10:34you know what?
10:35We love this player,
10:36but we love the player we're getting back.
10:37It's a need-for-need trade.
10:38We might have to lose a little
10:40to get a little bit.
10:41And we hope Connolly goes off
10:42and has a great career.
10:44If Meade hits 25 homers a year
10:46for us for the next five,
10:47we'll call it a win
10:48no matter what happens with Connolly early.
10:50So yeah, I was surprised.
10:52But the more you look at it
10:53and the more baseballs run these days,
10:54I think it makes a whole lot of sense.
10:56Will, you mentioned coming on with us
10:58in the past,
10:58because you knew Paul Toboni
11:00really, really well in Boston.
11:02A, I'm assuming you're not surprised at all
11:04by the success of the Nats this year,
11:06although it does feel
11:07like it's way ahead of schedule.
11:08But I guess my second
11:10and more important question here,
11:11B, would be,
11:13knowing him like you do,
11:15what do you anticipate him
11:16to be thinking here at the deadline?
11:18We're trying to get a feel.
11:19We don't really speak to Boney yet.
11:21We had a great idea
11:22of what Rizzo would have done
11:23in these situations.
11:24What do you think he's thinking?
11:27Well, I mean, that's a hard,
11:28I'm not going to speak for Paul,
11:29but I would tell you this.
11:30I think that he,
11:34I mean, he's so thoughtful, right?
11:36I think, you know,
11:37Paul is the ultimate optimist.
11:38He believes in himself.
11:40He believes in the vision
11:41that you guys are building there.
11:43I think if you'd really
11:44given him truth serum
11:46and said, you know,
11:48you're one game out
11:49a week ahead of the trade deadline,
11:50I think he probably
11:51would have been hard pressed
11:52to believe that.
11:55But I know that he is thrilled
11:58with Blake and the job
11:59that he's done
12:00and all of the people
12:02that are around him,
12:03the player development
12:04at the major league level.
12:05I know he's delighted with that.
12:08And yet I do think
12:09that the Nats are
12:10in a very difficult position
12:12right now.
12:12Because I don't think
12:15they're now going to be
12:16the sellers that they would have been
12:17had they been five,
12:18six games back.
12:19That doesn't seem possible.
12:20I mean, they want to win, right?
12:21You've got to reward players
12:22for having the year
12:23that they've had.
12:25I think the Nats
12:26are going to be in a mode
12:27sort of like they just were
12:29with the Red Sox,
12:30where if you can kind of
12:32have it both ways,
12:33have your cake
12:33and eat it too,
12:34those to me seem like
12:36the moves that you try to make
12:37where if there's some guys
12:39that you really like
12:40that you'd love to have
12:41on your big league roster
12:42but that other teams
12:43really need right now
12:45and you can get
12:46controllable big pieces
12:47going forward,
12:48I think that's the path
12:50they will more likely take.
12:51And I mean,
12:52but I know this will drive people
12:54in D.C. crazy.
12:55I do.
12:56But,
12:57and I don't think
12:58these kinds of deals happen
12:59as often anymore
13:00at the deadline.
13:01but like if the New York Yankees
13:04call Paul and say,
13:05we'll give you Lombard
13:06and whomever else
13:09four of our other best players
13:10for C.J. Abrams,
13:12that to me is not
13:13out of the question.
13:14And that would,
13:15that would not go over well
13:16at all in D.C.
13:18But they know whether they
13:19want to, you know,
13:21pay him the big bucks
13:22and sign him to a long-term deal.
13:23You got Wood
13:24and a huge contract pending there
13:25and all those sorts of things.
13:27But that would surprise me.
13:28I think that's not
13:29on the table right now.
13:30I really do.
13:30Unless,
13:31again,
13:32unless you get totally blown away.
13:34But I really think
13:36they'll just kind of be
13:37buyers on the margins.
13:39But again,
13:39I mean,
13:40I haven't seen Paul
13:40since he came to Fenway.
13:41I haven't not even texted them.
13:43So I don't,
13:43I don't know what they're thinking.
13:44But I do think
13:46you have to be
13:47a little realistic.
13:48Like,
13:48does your fan base
13:49who has suffered
13:50through all these tough years,
13:52do they deserve
13:52a shot to make a playoff run?
13:54Absolutely.
13:55And when you get in,
13:56can anything happen?
13:58It can.
13:58But I think the thing
13:59that Paul knows
14:00beyond a doubt
14:02is that right now
14:03the Nationals do not have
14:04a starting rotation
14:05to make a real run
14:06in the National League.
14:07They don't.
14:07I mean,
14:07they're just not
14:09the starting pitching
14:09to hang
14:11with the Dodgers
14:12of the world,
14:13the Braves of the world,
14:14the Phillies of the world.
14:15That's just not
14:15a reality right now.
14:17And so I think
14:17that's the calculus
14:18as to whether or not
14:19it's worth making
14:20big pushes
14:21at the deadline.
14:22And I would say right now
14:23that's probably not
14:25the course
14:26that they will chart.
14:27Real quick, Will,
14:27because I do want
14:28to talk a little
14:28Commanders before
14:29we let you go.
14:30One of our favorite
14:31prospects that we covered
14:31the last couple of years
14:32was Jake Bennett,
14:33seeing him emerge
14:34for the Nationals
14:35and then he was
14:35obviously traded over
14:36to Boston,
14:36pitched really well
14:37for you guys this season.
14:38What have you seen
14:39from him?
14:40He's been awesome.
14:41And I alluded
14:42to this earlier.
14:43They have a type,
14:44these Red Sox do,
14:45and it is extension,
14:48right?
14:48It is how far
14:49down the mound
14:49do you come?
14:50And Bennett is elite
14:51at that.
14:54It's funny.
14:55Our guys have given
14:56him a nickname
14:57the Pink Panther
14:57because when he pitches,
15:00he's so calm
15:00and then he just has
15:01these arms that swing
15:03to the side
15:03very slowly
15:04as he walks off
15:05the mound.
15:06Chad Tracy told me
15:07a really funny story
15:08the other day.
15:10Jake is so locked
15:11into everything
15:12he does
15:13when he's starting
15:14that they'll be
15:15one out in an inning
15:17and our manager
15:18always sits on the side
15:19closest to the plate
15:20like a lot of managers do
15:22and Chad is dialed
15:23into the game
15:24and he tells me
15:24that now
15:26when he looks around
15:27because he knows
15:28when Jake is pitching
15:29they're like one out
15:30in an inning
15:31and he looks over
15:31his right shoulder
15:32and Bennett's like
15:33breathing heavily
15:34behind him
15:34like ready to like
15:36storm back onto the mound
15:37and do more damage
15:38and he's a remarkable
15:41story in a way
15:42and he just is so calm
15:43on the mound
15:44the pitch ability
15:45for him
15:46has been off the charts
15:46and you know
15:47it's another
15:48sort of
15:50case study
15:51I think guys
15:52in what modern
15:53baseball wants to do
15:54it's sort of like
15:55with Connelly
15:55they think that Bennett
15:56is awesome right now
15:58but they could
15:59you know
16:00get him a little stronger
16:01a little bit more physical
16:03and add even more
16:04velocity to him
16:05and you know
16:06Grant I know you're
16:06in the weeds
16:07on all this stuff
16:07that makes me
16:08a little nervous
16:09because I
16:10I'm sort of
16:12of the mindset
16:12that if a guy
16:13just pitches
16:14and gets the job done
16:15leave him alone
16:16you know
16:17I'm always a little
16:18reluctant to push
16:19the gas pedal on that
16:21but modern baseball
16:22is not
16:23so I think
16:24the sky's the limit
16:24for Bennett
16:25and I think
16:25that is another
16:27real big win
16:28for Craig Breslow
16:29in terms of identifying
16:30a pitcher
16:31that they could build
16:32with
16:32and develop
16:33because Bennett
16:34has been awesome
16:35it was a top 50 pick
16:36he's thrived
16:37at every minor league level
16:38and now he's got
16:39a 2-5 ADRA
16:40through 12 big
16:4110 big league starts
16:42so yeah
16:43it's not broken
16:44maybe not a reason
16:45to tinker with it
16:46you were joking
16:47about the receiver position
16:48but for people
16:49that don't know
16:49Will's an Alexandria
16:51Virginia guy
16:51originally
16:52and a DMV
16:53or in that way
16:54and you keep up
16:55with the commanders
16:56so when I say
16:57Brandon Ayuk's name
16:58Stefan Diggs' name
16:59your response
17:01is what?
17:03I like one of them
17:04of course I wanted Ayuk
17:05a lot more
17:06before he went
17:07full psycho
17:08on social media
17:09I mean
17:09I just don't understand
17:11what he's thinking
17:12who's advising him
17:13if anybody
17:14that just makes
17:15no sense to me
17:16because I think
17:16had he not done that
17:18who knows when
17:19the Niners will
17:20let him go
17:21and if they will
17:22because he
17:22they have no incentive
17:23to do that
17:24until whatever it is
17:25the first week
17:26of the season
17:27when his salary
17:28kicks in
17:29if he actually shows up
17:30and applies
17:30for reinstatement
17:31and all that stuff
17:32but
17:33I think
17:34at this point
17:35as they're trying
17:36to you know
17:37rebuild
17:37a confidence
17:38and a culture
17:40that would seem
17:40like a stretch
17:41I don't understand
17:42why they haven't
17:42already signed Diggs
17:43I don't
17:43to me
17:45it's a great
17:46perfect fit
17:47you know
17:47the Maryland ties
17:48are real
17:48and you know
17:49yeah there's some
17:50off the field stuff
17:51with him
17:51and maybe he's not
17:52yet ready
17:53to make a decision
17:53but
17:54I don't know
17:55how any GM
17:57any coach
17:58watches him
17:59and doesn't think
18:00he can help
18:00our team
18:01I mean
18:01we saw him
18:02in New England
18:03last year
18:03I mean
18:03he's like
18:03Drake May's
18:04best buddy
18:05and when the
18:06time to go
18:07is here
18:08he is an
18:09absolute baller
18:10so I
18:11to me
18:12that would be
18:13one I would
18:13love to see
18:14yes I'm excited
18:15about the young
18:16kid from Tennessee
18:17and Terry's
18:18going to have
18:18a breakout
18:19you know
18:19return to glory
18:20year
18:20whatever
18:21but I don't
18:22understand why
18:23that one
18:24doesn't make
18:24a ton of sense
18:25well Will
18:26appreciate you
18:26hopping on
18:27with us
18:27and a great
18:28insight on
18:28Connelly Early
18:30you guys are
18:30going to love
18:31him
18:31you really
18:31are
18:32and you
18:32know
18:32it's one
18:32of those
18:33things where
18:33when you're
18:34on airplanes
18:35and in clubhouses
18:36and in hotels
18:37with these guys
18:38certain guys
18:39kind of stand
18:39out to you
18:40Connelly is one
18:40of those
18:41and so
18:41because of
18:42that
18:42we absolutely
18:44all of us
18:45no matter
18:45whether the
18:45trade works
18:46out for the
18:47Red Sox
18:47or not
18:49everyone up
18:49here is going
18:49to be pulling
18:50for Connelly Early
18:51so we'll keep
18:51eyes on him
18:52and you guys
18:52got a good one
18:53Will Fleming
18:54calls Red Sox
18:55games
18:55thank you buddy
18:56good catching up
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