00:01I'm going to pick myself up off the floor and see if this man can help me.
00:04I need a hot tag.
00:05Zach Meisel going to join us from The Athletic.
00:06Hello, Zach.
00:08Summer Hack Radio.
00:09Let's go.
00:10What are you talking about?
00:11We're talking about signing Stephen Kwan long-term.
00:13What about Hack is that?
00:14What is Hack about that?
00:16Are you still on?
00:17What were you saying?
00:17Five for 150?
00:19We say a lot of things.
00:21Okay, Zach.
00:21All right, that was last year.
00:23It was the Arby's discount he was going to get.
00:25I was saying, can we sign him at $20 million a year?
00:27And immediately everybody's like, nope, go to hell, Ken.
00:31All right, is $20 million a year now after a hot month for Stephen Kwan somewhat reasonable, Zach?
00:38No, what?
00:40No, they're in a weird spot with him because...
00:43All right, fine.
00:43Where do you think LeBron's going?
00:47Minnesota.
00:49Thanks for that.
00:50Thanks for stopping by, Zach.
00:52I'm sorry, Zach.
00:52No, I'm sorry.
00:53All right, go ahead.
00:54Tell me why it doesn't work.
00:57No, they're in a weird spot with him because he's got one more year of team control and
01:00he's probably going to make like $9 or $10 million in arbitration.
01:04So, one, do they want to pay that?
01:07Two, do they have enough competent outfielders that they can afford to just dump him or trade
01:14him or non-cender him, whatever it would be?
01:17Three, how much value does he have?
01:19Is there another team that says, oh, we know what was wrong with him the first three months
01:25and we can fix him?
01:26Like, you know, how many women have you heard identify that guy and they can fix him?
01:32And that's what this is here because it has not really made sense.
01:36The metrics are really ugly, but they're usually ugly with him.
01:40And he's just not looked anything like himself.
01:44So, I don't think he would want to sign right now because he wants to rebuild his value.
01:50I think the team would be terrified of what a long-term contract would look like.
01:54We now know that this version of him exists.
01:56And so, I think you take it year by year at this point.
02:00I just don't know.
02:01So, I don't know where that last year happens because we've got to see how the next two months go.
02:08We've got to see if he can continue this and then the first three months just look like a fluky
02:13mirage
02:13or did the last three weeks look like a mirage?
02:17I don't know yet.
02:18Well, do you think this organization has a different kind of a rope on something like this
02:26where they are going to give a guy way more leeway, especially because they do have him under control
02:33and their margin for error is very different from other teams.
02:36So, they can at least let this play out a little longer.
02:42And also, given that, what metrics do you think do matter?
02:46Is it the swing speed?
02:47Is it the barrel rate?
02:48Is that something they're going to need to see for two more months, three more months?
02:53You know, how do they evaluate that?
02:57So, yes, to the first part of your question.
02:59I think especially this is a very unique circumstance coming up this winter, right?
03:04So, they might not be baseball or there might not be a full season
03:10or you might not have to pay a guy a full salary or the landscape of the league might change.
03:14Maybe there's a salary floor and so you're more willing
03:17to give someone like that a little bit of money and take the risk because you have to get to
03:22that floor, right?
03:23So, you know, if Kwon finishes strong, they probably don't mind paying him $9 or $10 million if they have
03:30to have a payroll of $150 or whatever.
03:33And who knows what that'll look like.
03:34But there's so much uncertainty in so many different facets that, you know, it's kind of hard to chart out
03:41his future right now.
03:44Usually, they don't – they always want to trade a guy a year too early instead of a year too
03:49late.
03:49But it's too late for that now.
03:52It's not like they didn't trade him last summer.
03:54And so, now they have to determine, you know, what makes the most sense and what is the market for
04:01him.
04:01And I don't think we'll know that market or there might not be much of a market until we know
04:06how the next two months go.
04:08There's also like – look, the guy is still an elite, elite defender.
04:12He's been awesome in left field and center field this year, and that counts for something.
04:17And so, let's see if he can take the last three weeks or whatever it's been and make it translate.
04:24I think the one positive all along is that his walk rate has been a career high.
04:29He's got a higher on-base percentage this year than he did last year.
04:32So, there's a floor there that's good.
04:35It's just he's got to – he knows how pitchers are attacking him.
04:40And it's just they're getting ahead because he's too passive.
04:43You know, they've worked with him on being more aggressive early in the count.
04:47And then when the pitchers get ahead 0-1, 0-2, they're just attacking him outside.
04:52And they're saying, hey, try to hit a line drive the other way.
04:57If you can do that consistently, kudos.
04:59But until he does that, they're not going to – like his favorite pitch to hit is going to be
05:04a fastball in on the hands that he can turn and pull to right field.
05:08If you go back and look at the summer of 2024 when he was flirting with 400 and he hit
05:1414 home runs that season,
05:15pretty much every time he yanked one over the fence, it's a fastball in on the hands.
05:19So, the pitchers don't do that anymore.
05:21You see him get attacked outside constantly.
05:24And until he can consistently take that the other way, that's what he's going to get.
05:29And he's done a better job of that lately.
05:31The great Zach Mosel from The Athletic, he's on the Wise Heart Right, We Make It Right, Call Kyle Right
05:35Hotline.
05:36Is it enough – you talk to a lot of Guardians fans.
05:38You do.
05:39You are in – you talk with the fans.
05:42You're with the people.
05:44Do you think it's enough to win the division this year or do they have to go much further?
05:50You've got to go further because you've done that.
05:53We've – like, last season was a failure for the first five months.
06:00And there were other conditions that contributed to that.
06:04But, well, we gave them a pass and we said, hey, that was a really scintillating run in September
06:09and a really cool story and the way you fought through adversity and, like, kudos for that.
06:14Like, we'll – you know, no one thought that that team had it in them to come back and make
06:20a historic run to the division, right?
06:22But there's no – what's the circumstance if they win the division and get bounced in the first round this
06:27year?
06:27Like, what – are we patting them on the back again for doing the same thing three straight years and
06:32not going further,
06:33especially with the landscape of the American League?
06:35Like, what teams terrify you?
06:39You know, it's – like, Tampa is – they're good.
06:43They are good.
06:44But I don't think that's an infallible team.
06:47I don't think – these are the big, bad Yankees.
06:49You know, they'll get Aaron Judge back and they'll look bigger and badder.
06:52But, like, their lineup still has holes.
06:55They need some upgrades, I think, in the bullpen.
06:58And they'll probably make those moves.
07:00But, you know, that's it.
07:01Like, everybody else has just treaded water all season.
07:05So, if you win the division, you could very well get a first-round buy.
07:10And, you know, then I think if you do that, like, you've got to go win a playoff series or
07:16two.
07:16And, you know, it's right there for you to make some upgrades and make a run.
07:21I don't think anything has changed on that front.
07:23Can I make an argument, though, that this is a rebuilding and overachieving team
07:29and they shouldn't be as good as what they are because it's –
07:33It's so conflicted, though.
07:33They do that every year.
07:34Every year we hear, oh, we have one of the youngest rosters in the league.
07:37Well, that's by choice.
07:39So, I'm making an excuse for them.
07:41I'm making an excuse for them is what you're saying.
07:42Oh, boy.
07:43What are you saying?
07:43I'm not being adversarial for them.
07:45Zach was not about to hear your excuse.
07:48Well, I love how I jump my ass on it because I'm not –
07:50He can hold my feet to the fire.
07:52And if I'm making an excuse, then tell me I'm making an excuse.
07:56That's fine.
07:57If you rewound the tape, did you say similar things the last couple years, too?
08:03That, hey, just win the division.
08:04That'd be a success.
08:06Yes.
08:08So, then at what point are you going to evolve your expectations?
08:14I don't know.
08:15When the Dodgers –
08:17Yeah, the Dodgers.
08:18Zach, answer that.
08:19When you take $150 million off their payroll.
08:21Fine.
08:21They play in the National League, though.
08:23So, if – I'm not saying you have to win the World Series or it's a failure.
08:27But, like, who are you going to play in the first round of the playoffs?
08:30Are you going to play, like, the Rangers?
08:32Are you going to play the Twins?
08:33Like, we can set our expectations a little higher here.
08:38Fine.
08:38All right.
08:39Let me ask you this.
08:39It's also a credit to them.
08:41I understand they're really young, but they're good.
08:43They're young players.
08:44They're their best players.
08:45The rotation has been fantastic.
08:47The bullpen – like, we're seeing the makings of what could be a really good bullpen if we see more
08:53of Franco Alamon and Daniel Espino to go with.
08:56Cade Smith and Gattis has been great.
08:59Colin Holderman's been a revelation.
09:00Like, let's give them some credit.
09:02I don't want to just say, like, hey, you know, kudos.
09:04You won the division.
09:05Like, it's a terrible division.
09:07It's a terrible American league this year.
09:09And I think, yeah, Bazana's young and DeLauder's young.
09:13Like, but those guys have been awesome.
09:14They've carried them.
09:15So why can't we then say, like, hey, you know, the – like, I think they would be – those
09:22guys would be disappointed if they got to the playoffs and got bounced in the first round by the Mariners
09:26or the White Sox.
09:28All right, Zach, it's way too early to tell.
09:32We won't hold you to this, you know, 10 years from now.
09:34But DeLauder, Bazana, can you tell me do we have future stardom in their futures or are we talking about
09:42guys that are just going to be really good players?
09:44What do you see?
09:46I think, yeah, somewhere between, like, solid everyday – like, Bazana's drawn.
09:53I feel like everyone goes to the Jason Kipnis comparison.
09:57I would hope that that's the floor.
09:59Nothing against Kipnis, who is a two-time All-Star and a really solid player for nine years in Cleveland.
10:07But, you know, you were the first overall pick.
10:09And I think offensively there are some traits that should make Bazana – like, this should be the base.
10:19Like, I think making the All-Star team, like, I think he can do that pretty regularly.
10:23Now, he's got to get better defensively.
10:27I think with DeLauder, it's really just a matter of health.
10:30I mean, his whole life, everywhere he's gone, I know the swing is funky and it looks unorthodox, but it's
10:35worked.
10:36And the big development this year is not only has he stayed healthy, he's crushed left-handed pitching.
10:41There were questions about whether he'd be able to handle lefties consistently at this level, and he has.
10:46And so, there's star power just from the standpoint of, like, he's a guy that I think you're going to
10:54write his name in Sharpie in the second or third spot in the order, no matter who's on the mound.
10:59And that's an extremely valuable player.
11:03So, yeah, I feel like his ceiling is probably higher, at least offensively.
11:10And then Bazana is just, like, a super well-rounded, and I hate to put a cap on, like, what
11:16he can accomplish just because the things that made him the number one overall pick were, like, he walked into
11:21Oregon State when he was visiting there before his college career.
11:26And he goes into their complex, and he sees a wall with all their school records, and he's just, like,
11:34he's making mental notes, and he's, like, pointing at one and then another.
11:37And he's just like, okay, my goal is to beat all of these.
11:40And he did.
11:41Like, he's the type of guy, like, the work ethic is going to take him places.
11:46So, yeah, I think those are two guys you build around moving forward.
11:51And, like, credit to the organization.
11:53Obviously, they were first-round picks, so a lot of the homework done for them.
11:57But, like, they, like, those guys look like bona fide, legitimate players.
12:03And this organization's had a tough time developing those.
12:08I got really no more questions to ask.
12:09I have one more.
12:10What?
12:11All right, Zach.
12:12My spirit is broken.
12:14If you are a Guardians fan and you complain a lot about payroll, you complain a lot about the economics
12:22of Major League Baseball,
12:23what should we be rooting for?
12:26We saw some of the comments come out from players who are not going to stand for a salary cap.
12:33It's a non-starter.
12:34We heard that over All-Star Weekend.
12:36What should we be pulling for as fans?
12:38What would be the best-case scenario for Guardians fans right here in Northeast Ohio when it comes to labor
12:45strife or labor peace or whatever?
12:48It's really hard because both sides, I think, have valid points and both sides have valid blind spots.
12:56And what you're seeing right now is a PR battle, and that's it.
13:01And, like, neither team is going to operate in good faith right now because they know they don't have to
13:06because there will be a lockout on December 1st.
13:10And eventually there will be some pressure because the season will be approaching and they will have made no progress.
13:16And that's when it gets really dicey, and that's when maybe you finally see some honest dialogue going back and
13:23forth.
13:24The problem is all the attention is going on a salary cap and salary floor, and you can have your
13:29own opinions on that.
13:31Like, I think that's important, but it's important only if there are other substantial changes.
13:39You can't have certain teams making $300 million a year off their TV deal and then other teams making $30
13:48million off their TV deal.
13:50There has to be a way, and it'll be healthier for the sport.
13:53We've said this forever.
13:55We don't care in the NFL that Kansas City is on national TV or Green Bay is a Super Bowl
14:01contender.
14:01We don't just assume every free agent is going to the Jets or the Giants.
14:05And in MLB, like, that is all we talk about.
14:08The entire offseason does not matter to two-thirds of the league.
14:13And so how do we fix that?
14:14We fix that with better revenue sharing.
14:16You fix that with ways to make it so that players are better younger now than they have ever been
14:23because there's NIL in college, so they're coming to the minor leagues more prepared.
14:28And you see, you know, Travis Pazana blitzed through the minor leagues in less than two years,
14:32and it would have been shorter if he was healthy last year.
14:36And also, like, there were a lot of guys in his draft class who beat him to the majors.
14:40And that is happening now, and yet for many of them, it's going to take years and years for them
14:46to get to arbitration and finally get paid what they're worth.
14:49And, like, those are the things that need to be fixed, and we're not even talking about that because all
14:54we can focus on is a cap and a floor
14:56because that's what appeals to the masses in this PR battle.
15:01So this is a long-winded way of saying a lot and saying little because it is so much more
15:08nuanced,
15:08and that's why this is terrifying and makes me really worried that they're, you know, the new schedule, the 2027
15:16schedule came out yesterday.
15:17Wow, what great timing.
15:19Does anyone think that they're actually going to be playing at Wrigley Field on March 25th, even if the weather
15:25were to cooperate?
15:25No.
15:26Looks pretty dubious, right?
15:27So I hope that this is, like, I would not pay a ton of attention to anything you hear between
15:34now and, like, Thanksgiving.
15:36And then it'll start to get serious, and we'll see if these guys, these sides can figure it out.
15:41I think the problem is that both sides make good points in some situations, and they're also completely missing the
15:47point in others.
15:48And there's not a perfect happy medium because neither side has the fans' best interests in mind.
15:56Fifteen seconds.
15:57Where will Francisco Lindor be playing in August?
16:01Probably with the Mets, but it doesn't seem like he's long for there.
16:07Look, hey, if the Guardians have to spend $100 million more to get to a payroll floor, then maybe we
16:12can have the conversation.
16:13But as much as I think he would love to come back to Cleveland, I don't see any scenario where
16:21that makes sense at the moment.
16:22Would you rather sign Stephen Kwan to a $20 million a year contract or trade for Francisco Lindor and pay
16:26him $30 million a year for the next decade?
16:30I think Lindor.
16:31Damn it.
16:33Fine.
16:34Okay.
16:35Well, thanks a lot.
16:37I appreciate your time and the embarrassment.
16:39All the best to you.
16:40Would you rather have LeBron back or Lindor back?
16:43Whoa!
16:44LeBron!
16:45Let's go!
16:47What?
16:48You'd rather have Lindor than LeBron?
16:51No.
16:51I didn't say it was a hard question.
16:56He knows what weak it is.
16:57All right, Zach.
16:58Thank you very much for the time.
17:00You got it.
17:01Sorry, Ken.
17:01No, you don't need to apologize for beating me so severely.
17:05I turned the mic off during the interview and I said he'd put me in a body bag.
17:10Zach was on the wise heart right.
17:11We make a right call, Kyle Wright Hotline.
17:12We make a right call, Kyle Wright Hotline.
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