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00:00And Lime is making another, are you making one of those AI charts?
00:03I think I have a chart in progress that will astound you when it comes to LeBron James at age
00:1141.
00:11It's ChatGBT, right?
00:13There's like five I'm working with.
00:15You told me you weren't going to make charts anymore during the show.
00:18And I haven't.
00:18Until now.
00:19Until now.
00:22Well, then you lied to me.
00:24You said you weren't going to do it anymore.
00:25You're doing it right now.
00:27We just had Greg Schwartz on from the Bleacher Report.
00:29I asked him, does he think that the Cavs need LeBron to win a championship?
00:33He said no.
00:34What's the U-Tune?
00:38This is not the move that gets you over the top.
00:40We got to be honest here.
00:41Wait, LeBron?
00:42Yes.
00:42Before it was a move that would get you over the top.
00:45No.
00:46It probably gets you closer.
00:47He's better than Jared Allen.
00:49I love Jared Allen.
00:50I think it gets you closer.
00:51And then you got to tell me what they're trading Jared Allen for if they do trade Jared Allen.
00:55And then what could they do at the deadline?
00:57Because that could be included too.
01:00I mean, okay, for all that I've said about James Harden, if Harden just flat out doesn't work here with
01:07this group,
01:08like, they would look to see come deadline.
01:12Now, who would want James Harden when he's turning 37?
01:16That is a question.
01:18But James plays in a regular season.
01:20He was fantastic for us in a regular season.
01:23He was?
01:24James, yeah.
01:25Yeah.
01:25He was downright awesome.
01:27Yes, he was.
01:27There were a bunch of games where I'm like, was he our best player in that game?
01:31So, he's still got a lot of game.
01:34He was a total rollercoaster in the playoffs.
01:37I mean, Greg was right about that.
01:38He was disastrous in some of the games.
01:41And then other games, I thought, man, someone's willing to shoot.
01:44Thank God.
01:45Someone's not fearing the moment, which is not always what's been said about him in the playoffs.
01:49The question you have to ask yourself is that who other than, and I think you just did it,
01:53who other than LeBron is going to be the guy that gets you over the hump?
01:57And you mentioned James Harden and having to kind of do things differently.
02:02Donovan Mitchell, is Donovan Mitchell capable of driving that vehicle?
02:05Like, you brought up earlier in the show about LeBron and whether or not, how did you put it?
02:11Like, Donovan would have to come to grips with not being the best player on the team?
02:14Is that how you said it?
02:15How did you put it?
02:15Because I remember I wanted to bring up Kyrie with you.
02:18Like, when the Cavs, when LeBron was out during run number two, and Kyrie would play the entire game,
02:24they weren't able to win games.
02:26It was like one of the big talking points we had.
02:29It's like, God, Kyrie really can't win games without LeBron on the floor.
02:32And it, like, kind of stuck around with Kyrie Irving for so long.
02:36And I don't think that, Donovan Mitchell, obviously it's different.
02:40They won 64 games two years ago.
02:42They won 52 this last year.
02:45So that doesn't change much.
02:48So I think, Tone, there's been some long-standing things that I think we've got to change.
02:55We've got to change our thoughts on some of this stuff.
02:57I don't think it makes as much sense as we're trying to make it out to be.
03:00Because I think it's a bygone era for so much.
03:02I've always asked if Donovan Mitchell would be okay with him not being the best player.
03:06I still think most nights he's the best player.
03:09Yeah.
03:10It is a different role for Donovan to be the first time in his career where he would not be
03:14on the marquee.
03:15He would not be, hey, Donovan Mitchell's coming to town.
03:19You know, even though Donovan's been roughly a top-ten player for a long time now.
03:25He could handle that, though.
03:25And I think he totally could handle it.
03:27I think it would be better for him.
03:28I think it's had to.
03:30I know NBA players can be delusional.
03:32All these athletes can.
03:33I don't think Donovan Mitchell would fear in the slightest having to be a second fiddle.
03:39Do you think defenses automatically gravitate towards LeBron James?
03:45Even at 41, do you think defenses automatically gravitate towards LeBron?
03:49I think more so in the playoffs.
03:51Okay.
03:52And still, obviously, that's a big, big deal.
03:54Because my thought is, does this create more opportunities for him to be better?
03:58Like, I don't think they need LeBron to win a championship.
04:02I just think he helps that much more.
04:05If they don't get LeBron, it's going to be tough because we've been talking about this for two and a
04:08half weeks now.
04:10Or just over two weeks now.
04:11So, if you don't get him, I think people are going to be mad.
04:14I think they're going to feel like they've had their time wasted.
04:17I think I'm going to feel like that to a certain degree.
04:19I'm going to try to remember what I'm going to say in 10 years when LeBron comes back for another
04:24reunion and try to keep that in perspective as I try to work through the therapy of him picking another
04:31team if he were to pick another team.
04:33But I also know that one of the biggest problems that we're going to have here, and it's not about
04:39doing rah-rah speeches, but it's about being truthful,
04:41is trying to convince fans that this is still a good team without LeBron James.
04:48LeBron has, again, been a security blanket for not just fans, but for this organization for every year he was
04:56there.
04:57And even the years he wasn't.
05:00When did we first start talking about LeBron coming back?
05:03Was that after the 2009 championship?
05:06And then going into the summer of 2000, when they were in the finals against the San Antonio Spurs, it
05:13was a question, but it was like, all right, he's going to approach free agency.
05:15And then when they lost to the Spurs, it was like, okay, he's really going to go.
05:18That was 2013.
05:20They lost to the Spurs.
05:21Oh, yeah, I'm sorry.
05:21I say 2010.
05:22I'm sorry.
05:22I'm mixing up the timelines.
05:24They won the two years prior.
05:25I'm sorry.
05:262013.
05:27In 2010, we just didn't think he was going to leave.
05:29In 2013 to 14, we started talking about him coming back.
05:33Thank you very much.
05:34And then I think we've been talking about LeBron.
05:36I mean, Padone's been talking about LeBron coming back for a year and a half now.
05:39And I think that a lot of us have just used him as a security blanket.
05:43Hey, it's not going to be bad because we got LeBron coming back.
05:45We're going to get LeBron back.
05:46Everything's going to be fine.
05:47Or we have LeBron and everything's going to be fine.
05:49I just don't think we can do it like that anymore, man.
05:51I can't speak for everybody.
05:52I did not know LeBron was still going to be playing at this level.
05:55So that's what's different for me.
05:57Like, I thought he would look like a shell of himself.
05:59And, yeah, there were many regular season nights early on last year where it was like, oh, no.
06:05What happened?
06:05Remember, he came back.
06:06What was it?
06:08Not tendonitis.
06:09But what did he have?
06:10Tinnitus?
06:11What was it?
06:12Tinnitus is the ears.
06:13Not tinnitus.
06:14I don't remember what it was.
06:15But he had issues.
06:15And it was like, oh, no.
06:17He's done.
06:17We can't be playing the music that loud then in the arena if he's got the tinnitus.
06:21That would be very quiet.
06:22We're on LeBron watch.
06:23We can't get too excited.
06:25But he had issues.
06:27Sciatica.
06:28Sciatica.
06:29Yeah, and it was bothering him.
06:31Fortune needed a cop for that in the movie Rudy.
06:33And he wasn't even trying on defense.
06:36And then the further along, remember, he was finally accepting of his role as the third banana behind Austin Reeves.
06:45But he accepted his role, and they figured it out.
06:49And you weren't hearing a lot in the way of LeBron being some problem behind the scenes.
06:53But then all of a sudden, the genie bus stuff started coming out.
06:58And then it was like, man, they don't – not only is LeBron not in their plans, they seem very
07:03ungrateful towards LeBron.
07:05Oh, he felt disrespected.
07:05And Greg Schwartz was right to say that during the interview we just had with him.
07:09And look, maybe LeBron and his people behind the scenes were also unhappy, and that caused that too.
07:14I'm not going to make it – I'm not going to absolve LeBron.
07:16I mean, he's such an entity that, you know, his presence is always going to be felt.
07:22But in the end, like, that guy was still a top-20 player in the playoffs, the guy that I
07:29saw.
07:30Yeah.
07:30And I did not expect that at this stage of his career.
07:32And if you take care of him the right way, he can still be a top-20 player in this
07:36coming playoffs.
07:37Now, there's a law of diminishing return.
07:39So, you're going to need more from Donovan Mitchell.
07:42It's set to be a bizarre year no matter where he goes because he's probably going to only be there
07:45for one year.
07:46And I just can't – I keep going back to the thought of it's not about who helps him win
07:51a championship more.
07:52He's going to be a positive person.
07:53He's going to have a lot of – he's going to have a lot of confidence.
07:56So, he probably is thinking that.
07:57But I do think somebody needs to remind him, what if you don't win the championship?
08:00Odds are going to be stacked against you no matter who you play for because of the way the league
08:04is now.
08:06Whoever you play for, you have to think about what if you don't.
08:08Because the odds are better that you don't than that you will.
08:11And I try not to get everybody's hopes up.
08:14We'll be happy to have him back.
08:15We'll be excited to have him back.
08:16Yes, you feel better about a chance at a championship.
08:18I'm sure I'll say something crazy if they start off 12-1 this coming season, something like that.
08:25But honestly, you have to think about whether or not – you have to think about what it's going to
08:29be like if you don't win a title.
08:31And if you don't win a title and you're in Philadelphia, I think those people are going to make your
08:35life a living hell for that season,
08:36especially if things don't really go your way.
08:38I think in Minnesota, they will just look at you as a hindrance to that fan base.
08:42Same thing with Indiana.
08:43Same thing with a lot of places.
08:44They're not going to roll out the red –
08:46Miami, I think it's different.
08:46Yes.
08:46They're not going to roll out the red carpet.
08:48Like in Minnesota.
08:48Exactly.
08:49Like they're just not.
08:50They're just not.
08:51And there's no sentimental tie-in.
08:53If you win a championship – and I think he thinks he can win a championship.
08:57Why wouldn't you?
08:58If you win a championship, it's another personal story to you.
09:02It's another feather in your cap.
09:04And especially if you win a championship in a place that hasn't won one like Minnesota or Indiana,
09:08that would be a big story.
09:09But if you don't, you've got to think about how you're going to be remembered
09:12and how you want to tell your story.
09:15So at the end, is your story, are you going to have to go beyond
09:19and not mention how Indiana fans are deriding you on your way out the door?
09:23Or like Spike Eskin, they played this yesterday afternoon.
09:26Spike Eskin was kind of like, I'm holding his feet to the fire if he comes to Philadelphia.
09:30All right, well, if you don't win it all in Philadelphia, are you going to –
09:35are you going to try to spin that?
09:36Because I don't think there's a spin in Cleveland.
09:38I don't think you need to.
09:39I think even if you don't win, and the odds would be against you,
09:42even if you don't win, it's a tremendous tale to tell.
09:47And I think we'd have nothing but great things to say,
09:49with the exception of a very vocal but very small still minority.
09:54There doesn't seem to be much in the way of anything new other than Philadelphia,
10:00apparently Tyrese Maxey and friends all reached out to LeBron, making their last pitch.
10:07So did they go above and beyond, not even a voice note?
10:12Okay, fine.
10:13Can I get to Wayne in Cleveland here?
10:15Oh, yeah.
10:15All right, I might as well.
10:16Hello, Wayne.
10:18Good morning, gentlemen.
10:19How y'all doing?
10:20Doing wonderful, Wayne.
10:21You go right on ahead.
10:23Well, I just wanted to answer your question.
10:25What was your question again about LeBron?
10:30Do you like LeBron James?
10:32You called in to answer the question about LeBron.
10:35What, did I distract you with the stories that I was telling about me going to find adult cinema?
10:40I think that's hardly possible, Kent.
10:43But go ahead.
10:43Did you, were you starting to think about the times that you were going to find adult cinema?
10:46It's okay.
10:48We've all been through it.
10:49All right.
10:50Wayne, the question was, do the Cavs need, need LeBron to win a championship?
10:57Okay.
10:58And that answer is yes.
10:59And the reason is, if we would have had him this year, you guys would have been celebrating
11:06last month downtown Cleveland, so most definitely.
11:09Wow.
11:09If we had LeBron this year, we would have won a championship.
11:12That's right.
11:13Because you guys are being, you know, I'm not saying you, but the fans being stubborn, you
11:18know, you know, for the simple fact, because they won't, they wanted to win, they wanted
11:23to win one without LeBron.
11:25Okay.
11:25You know, just, just to show everyone that he, I need it.
11:28Well, it, I got to tell you, Wayne, it would make, it's pretty much needed, it's pretty
11:32much needed, Ken.
11:33I'm going to let you know this, and I'm going to let you guys talk.
11:35All right.
11:36You need LeBron, because once LeBron leaves, that's it, this NBA, NBA is dumb, man.
11:42Y'all growing up when the NBA is a weak league, okay?
11:45I'm 60 years old, and I've been watching the NBA since I was seven years old.
11:50This league is weak, man.
11:51It's very weak.
11:52Wait a minute.
11:52Wait a minute.
11:53Wait a minute.
11:53We don't, so we'll never have a chance to win a championship ever again without LeBron?
11:57They'll pack it up.
11:57Get him out of here.
11:58I'm not saying, no, no, no.
11:59I'm not saying that, Ken, because the NBA is so weak, it's unpredictable.
12:04Anybody can win.
12:05Anybody.
12:06Why is it weak?
12:08Why is it a weak-ass league, though, Wayne?
12:10Why is it weak?
12:12Well, you got centers who don't want to stay down low and play the perimeter, you know,
12:18and block shots and make, you know, easy layups.
12:22Well, wait a minute.
12:23Aren't they coming out?
12:24Wait, you said.
12:25You got centers who want to dribble the ball down the court.
12:28You got centers who want to take three-pointers, all kinds of stupid stuff.
12:32I got better athletes than what I had with Greg Ostertag when I was a kid, Wayne.
12:37Wayne, by the way, you sound a lot younger than what you are.
12:39You sound a lot younger, so I'm, like, putting us in the same.
12:41Not a day over 63.
12:42These are guys who are, they're better athletes.
12:45I just want to park them at, do I really just want to park them at the block?
12:49They're okay, athletes.
12:51They're not basketball.
12:52Anthony, Anthony, come on.
12:54I'd say, Wayne, they're a lot weaker.
12:56Anthony.
12:58Help me here.
12:59Stop looking at your computer.
13:00I'm enjoying this.
13:03When them guys, man, they're weak.
13:06Like I said, back then and the day, you could predict who was going to win
13:09because you got some of the best basketball athletes around.
13:14They're not like that anymore, man.
13:15All right, fine, Wayne.
13:17Thank you for the call.
13:18You sound like a weak-ass radio.
13:20Why didn't you want to jump in on that?
13:22What's your problem?
13:23I wanted to hear them out.
13:24No, you didn't.
13:25You just wanted to make your stupid chart over there and put it on the Internet.
13:28You're doing a show for the fans, the listeners right now,
13:30not for the people who hate you, the Shador fans on the Internet.
13:34By the way, they reinforced everything I said yesterday.
13:37I don't care.
13:38Stop caring about your – because you just keep doing a show for Shador fans.
13:42He loves the attention.
13:44I extend the olive branch because I love, much in the way –
13:48No, you will not extend the olive branch.
13:50Much in the way that LeBron James, when he comes to your town,
13:54that lifts up so much of the other economic situations in town.
14:01When we talk Shador Sanders, all the podcasters that exclusively talk Shador Sanders –
14:08And you love that.
14:08You love the attention.
14:09I love delivering a helping hand.
14:11I love being able to see other young broadcasters have a shot to get their words out
14:19and hone their craft.
14:20But you get accused of saying things just to get their goat.
14:24And what I'm telling you is that you're doing a show for Cleveland fans here.
14:30Wayne is popping off saying all these things about how the NBA is dead to him.
14:35And after LeBron, it's over.
14:36I'm going, no, if anything.
14:37I mean, this team, people are disappointed in this team for not winning a championship.
14:41This is the first time since before LeBron they've ever been to the Eastern Conference Finals.
14:46If anything, I know people are disappointed.
14:48This team, this current group gave me a lot of hope that, yes, it can be done in the future.
14:52The new CBA helps that.
14:54That certainly helps that.
14:56The new – the second apron helps that.
14:58Like, we can win a championship in the future here without LeBron James.
15:02It would be nice just to win another one.
15:03That's where I was going to disagree with Wayne.
15:05It gave me more heart that, hey, I can't be disappointed without expectations.
15:12I have to have an expectation for a team to be disappointed in them.
15:16Am I wrong?
15:17Yeah.
15:17Yeah.
15:18So I'm wrong on that?
15:18No, no.
15:19He ain't paying attention.
15:19I get that.
15:21When you get LeBron James –
15:22I could have been ripping and buzzed there.
15:23You didn't care.
15:23Every year LeBron is here, you know, the thought goes even almost overboard.
15:28Like, we have a chance to win a championship.
15:30It is funny at the age of 41 that we would even think championship, but it reinforces that
15:37I can't believe how good he is at this age.
15:40And I don't know, are you expecting some massive drop-off now?
15:43No.
15:43I mean, it seems like the guy is golfing and working out.
15:46That's what he's doing every day.
15:47The only thing I think that could take him down, like, before he wants to retire, like,
15:52I do think that the injuries amounted up, like, Owen brought up the sciatica and stuff
15:55that he's battled.
15:56That can be more serious than we think.
15:58Back problems can take you out.
16:00I mean, Owen knows that I know it.
16:01Back problems can end your day before it even starts.
16:04So that will get to him.
16:05That's why I don't play in the NBA.
16:06That's why Owen doesn't play anymore.
16:07He gave it up.
16:08Yeah.
16:08Owen was getting ready to go and play for the Utah Jazz for obvious reasons.
16:13And Owen's career got derailed because of it.
16:15Much like Greg Ostertek.
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