00:00I put out this Twitter poll today.
00:01I know you responded.
00:02I know Jake responded.
00:03Which trade will most define Jimmy Haslam's legacy as a pro sports owner?
00:08Deshaun, Miles Garrett to LA, or Giannis to Miami?
00:12And I thought it was really interesting that there were Browns fans
00:14who didn't understand the intricacies of the ownership situation in Milwaukee.
00:20And honestly, it's very convoluted and it's very weird.
00:24Jimmy only owns currently 25% of the Bucs,
00:27but because of the way the leadership structure is brought up,
00:30he has controlling interest of the Bucs right now.
00:34And to take it one step further, Kevin O'Connor on the Kevin O'Connor show
00:39actually talked about Haslam's involvement in the Giannis trade talks.
00:44I've heard from a number of sources,
00:47especially in the latter half of the day after the Bucs had their big meeting
00:51with all the ownership, all the front office executives,
00:54that Bucs owner Jimmy Haslam, who also owns the Cleveland Browns,
01:00was one of the real driving forces in this decision for Milwaukee
01:04to take this Miami deal over the Boston deal.
01:08So Heat fans can thank Haslam here in part
01:11because what happened in Cleveland with the Browns,
01:16Haslam just dealt with a Miles Garrett trade demand,
01:20and then he's dealing with the Sianna situation.
01:23Haslam, according to my sources,
01:25was very concerned about getting Jalen Brown,
01:28him having a good year, but the Bucs not being great.
01:32And then a year from now, Jalen Brown demanding another trade.
01:36All right.
01:37So there's a few things we can get to here.
01:40But if I'm a Milwaukee Bucs fan, and they already are very leery of Jimmy Haslam
01:47because of the Doc Rivers hire, of whether it's fair or not,
01:51the perception that Milwaukee went from a title contender
01:55to being a play-in team or worse,
01:58and then, of course, Giannis' discontentment all happening
02:01under the watchful eye, or lack thereof, of Jimmy Haslam.
02:06This probably would make me feel worse about this trade,
02:08even if you like this package, that Jimmy was kind of putting his thumb
02:12on the scale one way or another.
02:14Yeah.
02:15It's fascinating, though, to me, though, Nick,
02:17because when we heard from Albert Breer after the Miles Garrett trade,
02:22they said that the Browns consulted the NBA's Sam Presti,
02:26who is the general manager of the Oklahoma City Thunder,
02:29and Presti instructed the Browns,
02:31hey, it's paramount that you guys get Jared Verse in the deal,
02:35the same way that when we traded Paul George,
02:37everybody was focused on the four first-round picks,
02:39but Shai Gillis-Alexander, the reigning MVP of the league,
02:43two-time MVP of the league and NBA champion,
02:46was really the piece that they were excited about,
02:49and that's why the Browns have been so excited about Jared First
02:51because he fits their timeline, he's a suitable Miles replacement,
02:55all that stuff we get.
02:56They think he could ascend and be a great player.
02:58That would kind of fall into the thinking of accept the Boston trade package
03:04and try to build this thing quickly around Jalen Brown.
03:07They decided to go the option of we're good on Jalen Brown because he might not
03:11want to be here, and we don't want to go through another Miles Garrett headache,
03:15another Giannis headache with Jalen Brown.
03:17We'll just try to embrace Tyler, Hero, Kalil,
03:20where Hamehawk is in all of these first-round picks.
03:23But I think that's, so, you're not on the show enough to know.
03:29The second I understand, hey, a team's trying to put this message out there,
03:34I immediately scrutinize it beyond all measure because of things like this.
03:39Because teams don't always tell the truth.
03:41Teams say what is going to be the easiest spin that allows fans to be the most
03:47comfortable with whatever happens.
03:49So when I hear, well, we traded Giannis, we traded Miles,
03:53and we had to have Jared Verse because Sam Presti told us X, Y, and Z.
03:58And then the opposite is true of a trade involving another superstar for another team.
04:03And I know it's not a complete one for one because there are different
04:06circumstances.
04:07It sure makes it seem like that was just a reason that the team made up.
04:11To make them, to again, sell a trade as opposed to this is really what the logic
04:16was behind it.
04:17Because again, the logic is not concurrent.
04:19Because even the logic is a stretch.
04:22Is it not like you're comparing Jared Verse, who's a good player,
04:25and I'm excited about Jared Verse.
04:26This is not an indictment on Jared Verse.
04:28You're comparing Jared Verse to SGA, who has won two MVPs in an NBA championship.
04:34Like, I don't think that's a one-to-one comparison.
04:37Yeah, I mean, well, SGA wasn't SGA when they traded for him.
04:39He was a nice ascending player.
04:41He had only played that one year in L.A.
04:43Jared Verse was more impactful his second year in L.A.
04:46than Shea was his first year in L.A.
04:49Now, all this being said, though, I do, I think what's interesting is I put this
04:53Twitter poll out here because I did think it was going to go this way.
04:56Like, right now, about 250 votes in, at Nick Wilson says, 94% saying Deshaun Watson at Cleveland
05:03will be the trade that most defines Jimmy Haslam's legacy as a pro sports owner.
05:11Where I think we are is so much more interesting than people realize because if Jimmy just owned
05:17all the pro sports teams in Cleveland, then Cleveland would dictate what that legacy is
05:23at least 50-50 with the national crowd, right?
05:26Certainly what has happened with Art Modell's legacy, even, you know, 30-some years after
05:31moving to Cleveland Browns, it's still very much dictated by Cleveland Browns fans.
05:35For sure.
05:36And Ravens fans can't even overcome that when it comes to things like the Pro Football Hall
05:41of Fame.
05:42I would love to check back in on this in three to five years because I think this Giannis
05:47trade could age as badly as the Deshaun trade has aged.
05:51If five years from now, Giannis has won an NBA championship or two in Miami, and all of a
05:59sudden you look up and the Bucs are no closer to contending, and the 12th pick didn't become
06:04anything, and Hero turned into assets that didn't really go anywhere, and the Bucs are still
06:09mired where they were before they got Giannis, which is mostly a play-in level team, I think
06:15you're going to have a lot of people putting this up there with a Deshaun trade.
06:19I still will say, because I'm a Browns fan, the Deshaun trade will be the thing that mires
06:24his legacy unless Brook Park becomes the greatest thing ever, in case the Browns somehow find
06:29a way to become a consistently competitive team.
06:31But we're talking about big trades, it'll be almost impossible for anything to overcome
06:36my estimation of Jimmy as an owner when it comes to a singular move, but we are no longer
06:42in complete control of Jimmy's legacy because he does own a team in Milwaukee because you've
06:47got multiple entities, meaning multiple leagues and multiple medias covering him, and I think
06:52that's what's going to make the next five years so interesting.
06:55And oh, by the way, don't sleep on the Miles Garrett trade having a positive impact on Jimmy's
06:59legacy as it already appears that he's getting a lot of credit, as is Andrew Barry, for trading
07:04Miles Garrett, the best player in the deal, which drives me a little crazy.
07:07It is crazy, but what is real about it is that the NBA is such an international game, whereas
07:14the NFL is still trying to achieve that status, and obviously Giannis is one of the biggest
07:19international stars in that league.
07:21So say your situation happens where Giannis wins two rings, maybe another MVP, and the Bucs
07:26just stay bad, and none of these picks materialize, and Tyler Hero is just Tyler Hero.
07:31So you're right, everybody nationally will point to Jimmy Haslam as the dummy that traded
07:37away Giannis and helped Miami do all of these great things.
07:41What's fascinating, and I'll admit, I voted for Deshaun Watson to be the player, the trade
07:46that defines Jimmy Haslam's legacy as an owner, just because when we're looking at the macro,
07:53a lot of people nationally point to that and say that is the new worst trade in the history
07:57of the NFL.
07:59Like, there is a world where there are a lot of people today that are saying that the Bucs
08:03did the right thing in this move by trying to be bad, by getting all these picks, by getting
08:07all of this youth with Hero and Ware and Hawkez.
08:12The Deshaun Watson thing had a lot of people that were against it from the get-go because
08:16of all of the baggage that came with Watson, because of the looming suspension with Watson,
08:21and the fact that it's aged as poorly as it has is one of the worst trades, not just in
08:25football history, but in the history of pro sports, I think that's going to be hard to
08:29overcome unless the Giannis trade is the worst trade in the history of the NBA.
08:32But see, I think this is the benefit of five years of a trade not working out as opposed
08:38to, you know, wherever we are with this trade today.
08:41Because here's the thing, as bad as the Deshaun trade is, and it was awful, I agree, it's the
08:47worst trade in NFL history, the Browns were in the playoffs in 2023, and the Browns seem
08:52to be on the cusp of their next build.
08:54Like, they've got a roster.
08:56Because the NFL allows you to turn around a team if you just aren't dumb within three
09:01years, we'll look back, and if this, you know, if this thing precipitates a five-year
09:09run for the Browns, and the Browns are on the playoff periphery for the next five years
09:14after this one, we're going to look and go, well, it sets you back a couple years.
09:18And yep, it did prematurely end the Baker-Nick-Chubb kind of run there with Miles Garrett.
09:22It cost you Miles Garrett.
09:24But it will effectively have been like a three- or four-year run that it really put the Browns
09:29down in the dump.
09:30In the NBA, parity, and specifically once you get mired in the lower part of the NBA, we've
09:39seen teams last there for 10 to 15 years.
09:42And the hope is, well, if we draft well enough, five years from now.
09:45That's the hope, is five years from here.
09:48Ask the Chicago Bulls.
09:49We mentioned the Chicago Bulls and the Brooklyn Nets.
09:51It's not the Spurs.
09:52Ask the Kings, who have tried to get out of that spot as much, and the best they can do
09:58is a year or two here or there.
10:00216-474-0092.
10:02The honest chance, I really do think the honest trade has a chance to really become the thing
10:07people think about when they think of Jimmy Haslam.
10:10If it ages poorly, and I guess hypothetically if it ages well, just because it is so hard
10:17once you get to that bad in the NBA, and they are year one now of a rebuild, and the
10:22rest
10:22of the roster around those guys stink so sufficiently, that is, it could be a decade of darkness
10:28for the Milwaukee Bucks.
10:30I don't think it's going to be that for the Cleveland Browns.
10:32I don't think it's going to be that for the Cleveland Browns.
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