00:00We got to get to the wise heart, right? We make it right. Call Kyle, right? Hotline and welcome in
00:04Cleveland zone of NBC sports. He's a gentleman. He's a scholar. Good man. John Fanta joins us now. What's up,
00:12buddy?
00:13Hello, Nick and Nick. And yes, Dr. Wilson, I did watch the game last night.
00:19Oh, we will get to the guardos in a minute. You took that as an attack. I just wanted to,
00:23I just want to make sure that we, I didn't want to put you in a bad spot, but if
00:27you want to go, oh, we'll go.
00:28But we were just talking about the idea that because the Celtics were clearly willing to trade Jalen Brown for
00:36Giannis Antetokounmpo, there's been a lot of scuttlebutt that now Jalen Brown could be part of his own sweepstakes.
00:43I have said I would trade either Donovan or Evan Mobley for Jalen Brown, but that I would prefer trading
00:49Donovan for Jalen Brown.
00:51If that was the price, one of those two players, who would you rather trade to bring Jalen Brown to
00:57Cleveland?
00:58Well, because of the way the pieces fit, I would say Donovan Mitchell.
01:03And I say that because, to me, Donovan Mitchell and Jalen Brown, they both do a lot of things similarly,
01:15and they're both extremely talented.
01:19But I would go guard for guard rather than Mobley for him.
01:24And, you know, if there was one takeaway that I had about the Cavs for the positive from everything that
01:30they did in the playoffs, it was that I felt like Evan Mobley really got off the mat and played
01:36some quality postseason basketball and did some things that made you say,
01:39All right, well, maybe it's not all over.
01:42Maybe there is something to be said about looking to switch it into another gear and continuing to grow.
01:50And next year, can he continue to show that he can knock down that perimeter shot and become an even
01:55better offensive player?
01:57Because of the way the puzzle pieces fit, Nick and Nick, I'd say Mitchell for Brown.
02:02You know, there's portions of me, too, with Mitchell, as talented as he is, as well-liked as he is,
02:09as much as I like Donovan quite a bit, they haven't been able to get to the promised land with
02:16him.
02:16And that's not all his fault.
02:18There are other circumstances at play.
02:20But, you know, the one thing I would say is this.
02:24Jalen Brown, his time as a Celtic is over.
02:27The Celtics are going to trade him.
02:29And the Celtics are going to trade him because Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, I ultimately think, they don't get
02:34along.
02:35And Jason Tatum, excuse me, Jalen Brown went online after the Celtics lost in the playoffs and posted a video
02:43that was just not good for an organization's culture.
02:47And so now, can you have Jalen Brown and James Harden on the same team?
02:51That's a real question that would be on my mind as you're pondering what you're going to do.
02:57John, do you think that the Cavs would entertain a big trade like that with Boston, considering the fact that
03:04they would then both be contenders in the Eastern Conference?
03:09If, you know, say the Celtics got Donovan Mitchell and the Cavs get Jalen Brown, there's a chance those two
03:14teams would meet in the NBA playoffs.
03:16So is there a world where these two teams would even discuss this?
03:20Yeah, Nick, my answer is, I think it would get discussed.
03:26But I just have a hard time believing it actually comes to fruition because it's such a rarity to see
03:32contender to contender trade and a straight up swap like that.
03:37And to me, there's going to be some potentially more, I think there's going to be some more intriguing offers
03:45that Boston receives in terms of the potential pick swaps that they could get in a Jalen Brown deal.
03:52And I think that they're looking at it from the lens of, all right, we believe in Jason Tatum.
03:57We believe in Derek White.
03:58We believe in Peyton Pritchard.
04:00We need someone that fits this puzzle.
04:02Like, sometimes, in a star-driven league, okay, the league has morphed, though.
04:11You have to be able to have pieces that fit.
04:13You've got to have a team.
04:15The NBA is different than it was 10 years ago, 15 years ago.
04:18Like, yeah, you want to have a Giannis on your team like Miami has.
04:23But, guys, if I asked you right now, is Miami a title contender, I hope your answer is no because
04:28they're not.
04:29They're not a legitimate championship contender.
04:31And they just got Giannis on and Kumpo.
04:33And the reason why I don't treat them as a legitimate championship contender is because I don't like their pieces
04:39collectively.
04:41Their backcourt needs significant work done to it.
04:43And Pat Riley has $18 million to work with.
04:46I don't know how he's going to piece all that together.
04:49The Brown-Mitchell swap, is it enticing for us to talk about?
04:55Is it entertaining to talk about?
04:57Could it be discussed?
04:58Sure, it could be discussed.
05:00But if I'm the boss in Celtics, I also have to look at it from the lens of, okay, I'm
05:05trading a finals MVP to a fellow contender.
05:10And I'm getting back a guy who has not been a finals MVP and who has not been able to
05:16break through when the lights get brightest in the conference finals.
05:20Does it work for me?
05:22Does it significantly grow our organization?
05:25That's why, Nick, my answer is no.
05:27I don't ultimately see this getting across the finish line or really that close to it.
05:32I think Boston's looking at it in a different way.
05:34I would expect Trey Murphy to be a guy that is on the move to Boston potentially.
05:39So I'm glad you said that because I have said if Jalen Brown isn't it, Trey Murphy would be the
05:46guy I would move heaven and earth to try and get here to Cleveland.
05:49I'm not the only one.
05:52Assuming he doesn't go to Boston, what would you be willing to give up for Trey Murphy?
05:57Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question, Nick.
06:02I think what would be in demand on the return side would be one of the Cavs' main pieces here.
06:12I'd have to think long and hard about whether I'm going to give up Donovan Mitchell in that type of
06:20a deal or an Evan Mobley in that type of a deal.
06:23But I think what's being asked is not going to be small because I like Murphy a lot.
06:31I mean, I think he's a very talented player who just hasn't fully blossomed to the degree that he can
06:40because of everything that he can do.
06:43But when you're not in a winning situation, that lends itself to you being held back.
06:49But, yeah, I mean, here's the thing.
06:51Here's what we do now.
06:52The Cavs cannot run it back.
06:56You can't.
06:57You can't sit there and say that – and they might say they believe this to be true.
07:05I look with my own two eyes the same way that you two do.
07:09And we can all see the Cavs are not close to a championship as currently constructed.
07:17So you have to shake things up.
07:19You just – you have to.
07:21You can't just stand pat like this and say status quo.
07:25No, making one or two fringe moves is not going to get you across the finish line when the Eastern
07:31Conference is going to be improved next year.
07:34A number of teams are going to be improved.
07:36Miami just improved.
07:38Indiana will have hella burdened back.
07:40I would imagine Boston is improved because they're healthier and they're going to do things.
07:45New York's not going anywhere.
07:47Detroit is going to be improved because they're going to address the need for a Robin to Kate Cunningham here
07:52at some point.
07:53So if you're the Cavaliers, like, yeah, you need to make a trade.
07:58Trey Murphy would be great.
07:59But you can't just trade for people and not give stuff up.
08:04And I think the Cavs have a couple of guys there at the top of the food chain that people
08:09are going to be asking for in return.
08:10And how are you going to work that out?
08:12That's their big dilemma is that the biggest dilemma to me is, like, can you – to me, you can't
08:20continue to say that the core four now that you have with Harden included,
08:27and I guess Harden has to stay, that Mobley, Allen, and Mitchell has shown you enough to just continue on.
08:36One of those guys is going to be on the move here.
08:39John, with that in mind, the NBA draft tonight, usually a big night, feels like this one might not have
08:46as much buzz around it yet for whatever reason,
08:48despite all of the talented players that will be selected in the first round tonight.
08:53What should Cavs fans be on the lookout for for that 29th pick?
08:57I think it's the best draft class in at least 20 years.
09:01I really do.
09:02I think that this class will go down as one of the best that we've seen.
09:07That's how highly I think of it, and that's exactly why I agreed with what Milwaukee's doing, the fact that
09:14they have picks 10 and 13.
09:16They could get two guys that could be – I mean, they could walk away with a Dymar and LeBaron
09:21Zylon.
09:22That is something.
09:23In terms of what Cavs fans should be looking for tonight, you want to see in the back end of
09:31the first round who is on that board.
09:33You know, could you back your way into an Isaiah Evans out of Duke?
09:39Could you back your way into a Daylon Swain out of Texas who's a dynamic wing?
09:44You know, the Cavs need to continue to bolster their wing play.
09:47Joshua Jefferson is a guy out of Iowa State that I would keep an eye on.
09:51Swiss Army knife, all-American material.
09:53Did a little bit of everything this past year at Iowa State.
09:56Is a good defender.
09:57I brought up Swain, had a really good NCAA tournament, led Texas on a run, and another guy who just
10:04– he impacts winning.
10:05And he's ready for the next level.
10:09If the Cavs elect to go with size, there's a couple of options.
10:12There's Paris Reed out of Connecticut.
10:14There's Zuby Ejiofor out of St. John's.
10:17Both those guys are going to be hovering right around the range that the Cavaliers are picking at.
10:22The tail end of the first, early into the second.
10:25Those are two guys that I would keep an eye on for the Cavs.
10:29There's a guy that carries a ton of variance.
10:32His name is Kareem Lopez.
10:34He's the best prospect out of Mexico in the history of the country.
10:40And he was starring for the New Zealand Breakers.
10:44Broke a scoring record this past year.
10:46Is an incredibly versatile Swiss Army knife.
10:48If I were the Cavs, I'd keep that pick.
10:51I wouldn't be trading out of that.
10:53I know there's been some rumors about them trading to collect more assets.
10:56I actually think that back end of the first round is going to have some valuable players on the board.
11:01It'll be interesting to see what direction the Cavs go in.
11:04But to me, there's a couple of really interesting talents that are ready to play.
11:11You know, they're ready to – they can find another Max Strews, Dean Wade, Jalen Tyson type guy.
11:20I'm not sitting here and saying they're finding the next Jalen Brunson or, you know, their next prodigy.
11:27But I will say, like, for the Cavs, they're trying to – they have some contract situations to mesh out.
11:33You can get a guy on a rookie contract.
11:34This draft class is extremely deep.
11:37I'd keep that pick, Stein, and I'd pick one of the guys I just mentioned.
11:39John, which trade that Jimmy Haslam has been behind in the last month makes more sense?
11:46Miles Garrett to the Rams or Giannis to Miami?
11:57Giannis to Miami makes more sense to me because I think that for Milwaukee, they – first off, it shouldn't
12:11have even gotten to this point.
12:13I mean, they should have done this trade before.
12:17You could argue that the Browns, you know, shouldn't have waited to the time that they traded Miles Garrett to
12:25do the Miles Garrett move as well.
12:26But to me, the Giannis to Milwaukee – the Giannis to Miami move makes more sense because of the fact
12:36that, one, Milwaukee was able to get multiple younger players that still have some untapped potential, okay, and can play
12:47roles.
12:47Whether that's Jaquez, Ware, or a good player in Tyler Hero.
12:52He has his deficiencies, saying he's a star, but he's a solid player.
12:56They collected multiple assets, multiple draft assets.
13:01They have two of the top 13 picks in a draft class that I think will go down as a
13:05historic draft class.
13:07They have two of the top 13 picks tonight.
13:09They could pick an all-star tonight.
13:10They legitimately can pick a guy who can be a multi-time all-star in the NBA depending on how
13:16they come out with it.
13:17There's other times where organizations, like, you don't know if you're going to be picking pro bowlers.
13:21If you're the Browns, you don't know where those picks are going to fall and what they're going to look
13:26like for you.
13:27So, for me, the Bucs, if they go and get Jalen Brown, I'd be sitting here right now and saying,
13:34you know, the Miles Garrett move made more sense because Jalen Brown doesn't accelerate the Bucs.
13:39The Bucs aren't set up – they're not a team that would be set up to contend for a championship
13:44with Jalen Brown.
13:45This move allows them to go about their rebuild correctly but also potentially accelerate it by having multiple solid picks
13:57in the first tonight and having multiple guys who, you know, who bring a level of experience but they still
14:04can develop.
14:05And I think for the Browns, like, as much as I like Jared Burse, it's still a move that I
14:13look at.
14:13And I'm always going to say this, Nick and Nick.
14:17They could have gotten more at a different time than when they did trade him.
14:24You know, I believe that to be true.
14:28John, you've gotten way too much enjoyment out of this Nick and Nick bit.
14:31However, I know you watched the game last night.
14:35Was last night a Steven Vogt loss?
14:41Because he pitched Cade Smith for a six-ounce save.
14:45Is that what you're pinpointing it to?
14:47I'm simply asking you a question and then you can kind of gleam from there.
14:52What do you think, buddy boy?
14:54I didn't think it was a Steven Vogt loss.
14:57I think this team is limited in talent right now.
14:59They have multiple players who are hurt.
15:01Their bullpen's not good enough.
15:03And when your bullpen's not good enough, yeah, you do in a game of importance like the series opener last
15:09night where now tonight, you know, you need Parker Messick to come out and shove tonight and you got to
15:14respond.
15:16I don't put the loss on the manager.
15:18There were a couple of balls that were hit by the White Sox.
15:21Let's be real here.
15:22The broken bat, ground ball the first.
15:25He had that ball hit off the end of the bat that went down the left field line.
15:29I was sitting there saying, that's baseball.
15:32Like, that can happen in this sport.
15:34And it did.
15:35A couple of bad breaks.
15:36It's the reality of it.
15:37But I am not going to sit here and put that on the manager last night for throwing my best
15:44reliever in a bullpen that has had its fair share of flaws.
15:47He pitched his best reliever for six outs for the win.
15:51And, you know, it's not ideal.
15:53It's not something I would do multiple times.
15:55But I didn't have issue with how Vogt managed the game last night.
16:01I have issue with Gabriel Arias not giving much effort and, frankly, putting up some horrible at-bats.
16:09I have issue with Hoskins striking out and swinging at pitches that were out of the zone.
16:16You know, there's as much as they should have had six, seven, eight runs when it was all said and
16:22done last night.
16:24That's on personnel.
16:25Like, the athlete approach, it was clear that that reliever for the White Sox in the ninth inning didn't have
16:32it.
16:33And they still helped them out.
16:34They could have really broken out there and broken out for a big inning.
16:38And they didn't.
16:39And that's where they lost the game.
16:41You know, they lost the game there and then with some defensive miscues, some sloppy baseball from a team that's
16:46undermanned, has a weak bullpen, and has a lineup that's inconsistent.
16:52But the manager is a big part of the reason why they found themselves an out-away from winning that
16:57game and stealing that game in Chicago.
17:00I think he inspires belief from his team.
17:02And, you know, Nick, JP and I have gone at it in the past on Vogt.
17:06I'm not putting last night on Steven Vogt.
17:08But tonight, they've got to respond.
17:10They've got to get a series here.
17:13They've been struggling.
17:15John, good stuff.
17:16Strong stuff.
17:18We appreciate you, buddy.
17:19Enjoy.
17:20Appreciate you guys.
17:21Thanks, as always.
17:22John Fanta there on the Wiseheart Right.
17:24We Make It Right.
17:25Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
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