00:00with Giannis over the last three weeks that I want to erase the word could
00:05from everybody in the NBA media's lexicon.
00:08No, true, because I genuinely, like, I'm getting to the point where, like,
00:13I'm almost getting annoyed with it, and, like, it's going to be disappointing
00:17if he's not traded before the draft tomorrow.
00:19Yeah, it's just obvious.
00:20The same way it was disappointing at the trade deadline when they held on to him.
00:23Just the whole Giannis thing with the Bucs,
00:25it's like two people who don't want to be the bad guy trying to break up,
00:30and everybody knows they don't belong together, and everybody's over their crap,
00:34and yet you have to sit there because neither of them can just say,
00:38hey, let's do the adult thing, let's part as friends,
00:41we had a great run together, and now we're going to have great runs apart, right?
00:46Like, it really is that simple.
00:48The Bucs do not have the assets to compete with Giannis.
00:52It's why it doesn't make sense for them to just then turn around
00:54and trade them for Jalen Brown straight up,
00:57or even with Jalen Brown in parts, and, you know, Giannis wants to go win.
01:03Now, in fairness, I don't know Giannis to Miami.
01:06Suddenly makes them that much dramatically better.
01:09Like, Giannis and Bam is interesting together.
01:12You have to have a point guard.
01:13You got to have somebody to actually have the, like,
01:17take the rock and distribute it.
01:19But I at least understand in Miami and Boston
01:22why Giannis would feel like those are better situations
01:24than what they got in Milwaukee.
01:26Yeah, I think Boston for sure, because you saw, you know,
01:30Tatum come back and at least was okay before the postseason.
01:34Miami is weird, though, because isn't that just what Milwaukee was?
01:39Especially if they're losing Hero.
01:41Yeah, they didn't have a BAM, though, in Milwaukee.
01:44Miles Turner isn't BAM?
01:46No, BAM's better than, by, like, a wide margin.
01:49I agree.
01:50I agree.
01:51But I do want, like, is that enough?
01:53For, like, does Giannis really change the Heat's odds
01:57above the Cavs, Pistons, and Knicks?
02:01I think they're in with the Cavs, Pistons, and Knicks.
02:04But, again, those are all flawed rosters
02:06with a couple individually great talents.
02:08Very true.
02:08And so I think if you're Miami, you just have to,
02:11you got to sell that you're doing something here.
02:13Now, if I were Miami, the thing I'd turn around
02:16is see how cheaply I could get Ja Morant.
02:19Because Ja with Giannis and BAM would be,
02:22again, you'd still need, like, guys to shoot the ball.
02:24But, like, those three guys together,
02:26I'm sure there will be shooters around the NBA
02:28who will take vet men's, or if you have the middle-level exception,
02:32to go ahead and play next to those guys.
02:34Yeah, you're on to something if you assemble those three.
02:37But, dude, like, as you're, you know, naming that,
02:40it stresses me out a little bit about the state of the Cavs.
02:43Just because of how many good but flawed teams
02:48there are going to be in the East.
02:49And the Cavs are one of those good but flawed teams in the East.
02:52All right, so if we just put it through the prism of,
02:56if I mandate you've got to win a championship
02:58in the next two to three years, I think you're right.
03:01Right?
03:02But what I've come around to is,
03:03and I don't love that I feel this way,
03:06but if this is just going to be a team that echoes kind of like
03:10the Mark Price-led Cavaliers,
03:12where you're going to be a consistently great regular season team,
03:16top four in the Eastern Conference habitually,
03:18and you're going to have a couple runs where it looks like
03:21maybe you can make the finals, but then you don't.
03:23You never really get that close.
03:25I think there are Cavs fans that would take that,
03:29especially if there's a chance to pivot two years from now into Evan
03:34over we're going to chase the championship at all costs
03:38and blow this thing up two years from now
03:40and then stink for the next five years,
03:42and actually maybe longer because you don't have picks after.
03:45So I hear you, but if the worst thing that happens is that,
03:49not Miracle or Richfield,
03:50the Richfield Cavs with Price and Nance and Doherty,
03:54I don't really think it's the worst thing to happen.
03:57No, because you're competitive, and I would rather be having these conversations
04:01about how to break through and get to a championship
04:03than having a conversation about, you know,
04:05what are we going to do with the number three pick in the draft
04:08because we didn't get the number one pick,
04:09and we're, you know, not getting DeBantster or Peterson.
04:12We're settling for whatever's third.
04:14You know, like, I don't miss those days.
04:16I don't want to go back to those days.
04:18So I am on board with you.
04:20It just would be nice to get another championship here soon,
04:23especially because I thought that was the whole point of the Donovan thing.
04:27And that's why we were making fun of the Knicks
04:29because they missed out on the Donovan thing,
04:31and they got the consolation prize in Jalen Brunson,
04:34who now is an NBA champion and a finals MVP.
04:37So that piece of it makes me a little bit bitter,
04:40and it also just makes me bitter that I look at the landscape
04:42of this Eastern Conference, and all these teams have flaws.
04:46Even the Knicks have some flaws, and they just won the championship.
04:49So it's like I would like to capitalize on this at some point.
04:52So the same here.
04:54So I'm going to say this to then make a point kind of rebutting what you're saying.
04:58But, like, I would like the Cavs' math to make more sense,
05:02meaning they still are a wonkily built basketball team, right?
05:06Unless Jalen Tyson takes a huge step forward this next year,
05:09unless you were to turn a Jarrett into a Trey Murphy or, you know,
05:14kind of ascending a big wing, whatever it is.
05:16Like, unless one of those moves is out there,
05:19most of the moves you're going to make are pretty small potatoes this offseason.
05:24Now, I say that to say, what was your initial point?
05:28My initial point was that, like, in this East, where there is no, like, elite team.
05:34Okay, now I got it.
05:35There is no LeBron.
05:35Thank you for running that back for me because my brain skits down.
05:38I would like to capitalize on that.
05:40But I think where the Cavs will rebut, and time will tell if they're true,
05:44well, it's so wide open, we feel like our best math is currently constructed.
05:50And then eventually we'll break through and improve on the fringes.
05:54You know, I sold myself on that last year, and I got duped.
05:57And maybe that's where a piece of it is coming from is, like,
06:00Lonzo Ball and Larry Nance Jr., like, they really sold us on that.
06:04And Thomas Bryant, that, like, we're going to keep this core intact,
06:08but we're going to complement it better.
06:11Larry Nance Jr. didn't play a minute in the postseason other than mop-up time,
06:15and Lonzo Ball was voted off the island because he was so bad.
06:19But look at the – look at what the Celtics did after drafting Tatum and Brown,
06:26including the Kyrie trade, and look at the math,
06:29the different math that they tried along the way.
06:31They lost Kyrie.
06:33They turned Terry Rozier into Kemba Walker.
06:36That didn't work out.
06:37And then, obviously, there was Drew Holiday, and then they made the –
06:39so, like, yes, yeah, it'd be easy if it could just be like,
06:44hey, we just turned Evan Mobley into Giannis,
06:46or hey, we turned Evan Mobley into Jalen Brown.
06:49The math is definitively changed.
06:52But there is some semblance for prudence.
06:55Like, I'm not trying to say I think that's the best move all the time,
06:59but that's what they are going to sell,
07:01and I at least understand it if Giannis and LeBron aren't coming here.
07:04It's just a bummer that, like, as a Cavs fan,
07:07I watched the Eastern Conference Finals, and they got swept.
07:11Wait, they did?
07:11And this offseason, I don't know what they can do to cure my fear
07:16that that's what inevitably awaits them next offseason.
07:20Yeah, but I don't think there is something they can do.
07:24I think they just have to go out and prove it's different next year.
07:27Oh, I think there's something they can do.
07:28Well, I mean, okay, outside of trading for Giannis or bringing back LeBron,
07:33but again, that's a two-way street.
07:36And whether it's more on LeBron or whether it's more on the Cavs,
07:39as of right now, it doesn't look like both those parties are very serious
07:42about getting back together.
07:44Which, again, I just can't wrap my head around.
07:46Why not?
07:47Ego?
07:48Either on LeBron's side or the Cavs' side.
07:50Ego?
07:51Well, it's probably both.
07:52Yeah, I would guarantee you that we're probably giving the Cavs
07:55a bit of a Peterlin pass on the LeBron reunion side of things
08:01because we just think, well, LeBron's got all the power.
08:04It's LeBron's decision.
08:05I bet you there's some reticence to go back to where they were
08:09simply because every time LeBron's been here,
08:12he's been given more power than any other NBA player.
08:16Yeah, and there's something to be said.
08:18I'm sure if you're Dan Gilbert and Kobe Altman,
08:20you want to prove to yourselves that you can win it without him.
08:23There is not always going to be that lifeline that exists,
08:26that every decade you could just reunite with LeBron
08:29and he saves everything.
08:30And who's going to get credit?
08:32LeBron.
08:32Not Kobe.
08:33Not Kenny.
08:34Let's say LeBron took the MLE.
08:37Not even that.
08:38Let's say he took the vet men.
08:40Yeah.
08:40And he came back.
08:41So you're just adding LeBron to this roster.
08:43And LeBron could be the third best player on this team next year.
08:47If they go out and win a championship a year after being swept
08:50in the Eastern Conference Finals by the eventual champion New York Knicks,
08:54LeBron not only will retire and walk off into the sunset,
08:57he will get all of the credit for that because,
09:01perceptionally, Donovan, Harden, Evan, Jarrett,
09:04they're not on LeBron's level, whether that's true at this point or not.
09:07And, yeah, the perception would be that he would be that missing piece
09:11that could get them to a championship, even if it's not LeBron,
09:13even if it's not KD.
09:14Like, there is a piece missing on the Cavs.
09:19And it's a starting three.
09:21And even, like, now that I've had some time to relax on the Kenny Atkinson thing,
09:28I don't love what he did in the postseason, man, with those rotations.
09:32The strength of the Cavs all year, what got them to be the fourth seed,
09:36was their depth.
09:38And then he shrugged the rotation where we didn't get to see Tyson and Ellis,
09:42at least not as frequently as we needed to.
09:44So, like, my pitch to LeBron is, hey, we've got two big needs,
09:49and you've helped us with both of them.
09:51We need a starting small forward, which you proved at 41 years old,
09:56you could do above adequately as the third option.
09:59He put up 26 and 7 as the third option behind Luka and Reeves out west.
10:04And we need a little guidance probably in the coaching department, too.
10:09And you've done that here.
10:10Yeah, that's probably another reason why maybe the Cavs would be reticent to do that.
10:14Now, while we're on the topic of the Cavs and chasing championships,
10:17James Harden made an interesting comment on the Earn Your Leisure podcast
10:21about where he's at in his career.
10:23I mean, I'm going against a real dynasty head up.
10:25You know what I mean?
10:26And then it's all right, cool.
10:27Well, maybe let me just try to, you know, put my pride to the –
10:31well, not even pride.
10:31Let me just try to sacrifice the money, the individual, all that.
10:37Let me just try to sacrifice and switch it up a little bit
10:40and hopefully that will work in my favor in the system to try to, you know, win the championship.
10:44So that's when the Brooklyn situation happened.
10:46That was tricky.
10:47And then the Philly situation to where it's like, same thing.
10:50Let me just be a playmaker, switch up my role.
10:52I sacrifice money.
10:53I sacrifice being the top scorer that I am, that I still am and will be.
10:58Long story short, it's for nothing.
11:00You know what I mean?
11:00I lost a lot of money.
11:01I lost a lot of swagger on the court just from sacrificing,
11:06thinking that all that's going to get me to win a championship.
11:09I'm not – that's – what?
11:11No.
11:11If I win one, I win one, which I'm going to try.
11:13I work my butt off every day to win one.
11:15Yeah.
11:16But that's not going to like – you know, because I know how good I am
11:18and I know how much of a leader I am.
11:21All right, so there's a few things here.
11:22I didn't realize that's how James Harden sounded.
11:26Forget about the fact that he's worried about the money.
11:29He lost a little bit of swagger on the court.
11:31No, I think that's called you got fat that one time.
11:35Listen, as a fat man, let me tell you, I don't have a lot of swagger
11:39when I'm at this weight because – actually, I do have a little bit of swagger,
11:42but it's the weight going back and forth from one foot to another
11:45as I waddle through life.
11:47It's hard to have swagger on the court when you can't bring up the basketball
11:50without dribbling it off your foot in the postseason.
11:53He's sacrificed money.
11:54He's made $411 million in his career.
11:57Like, show me on the dole where you sacrificed money, James.
12:00All right?
12:01The guy made $41 million with the Nets and Rockets in 2021.
12:07That was right around the tops of the league.
12:10Where was the sacrificial part of that if you were James Harden?
12:13The discount in Houston, I don't really recall it where Harden took less money
12:18so they could try to take down that dynasty that he was going up against
12:22in the Golden State Warriors that I heard him talk about in that answer.
12:25There was never a discount there, at least an apparent one,
12:28that allowed the Rockets to improve.
12:30If there was, I missed it.
12:32Hey, here's the thing.
12:33James Harden has made $411 million in his career.
12:36He could have made $420 million.
12:39Now, don't – and all for naught.
12:41He sacrificed that $9 million.
12:43Now, listen, I think if you pair that audio with Donovan Mitchell's comments
12:47that ring or not, I won in life, and I'm content with where I am,
12:52and watching a Cavs team try to get below the first apron.
12:56And JP and I, there's, again, there's the very real reason of
12:59you've got to get below the first apron, or you've got to get below the second apron
13:03so you can make moves.
13:05I understand that.
13:06But if you don't make those moves, the benefit is you save yourself a lot of money,
13:11and Dan Gilbert has said, I'll be in the apron.
13:14I'll be in a luxury tax if I think you can win.
13:17So absent of that other move, that other shoe to drop, until I see that other move,
13:22I'm going to think, oh, you wanted to save some money here.
13:24So if I've got James Harden saying, hey, I want to win a championship,
13:28but I'm done sacrificing trying to win.
13:31Donovan Mitchell saying, you know, I'd like a title, but I've really won at life.
13:35And a Cavs team that's probably going to go into this season below the second apron.
13:40I think it's pretty fair to wonder, all right, are the rich just getting rich,
13:45and just they're pretty content where they're at?
13:49Because I don't think you can put it past them.
13:51It's disappointing, but if you look at it, James Harden's been in the NBA 17 years.
13:58He's been in the postseason 17 years.
14:00He hasn't won an NBA championship.
14:03At some point, you probably got to ask the question as to why.
14:06Donovan Mitchell said that he's won in life, whether he wins a ring or not.
14:10He's right.
14:11He's worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
14:13He is arguably a, you know, top three player in Cavs franchise history.
14:20He's going to have that jersey retired if he stays here a couple more seasons,
14:24and he's getting ready to marry Coco Jones.
14:26So he's won in life.
14:28Like, nobody here is really telling any lies per se,
14:32but you're right that maybe it does give us the inkling that maybe they know
14:37that they're not real contenders if they get out of this second apron
14:40without making that big move.
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