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00:04I can't, I can't bear thinking about how much I hurt everybody.
00:16Cam?
00:17And I know it was, it was an accident.
00:19Cam?
00:20Yeah?
00:21You're taking a lot of responsibility right now.
00:24And you've probably been taking a lot of responsibility.
00:27But let me make something very clear for you.
00:30At that time, you had a significant loss.
00:35Yeah.
00:35Each one of those children had a significant loss.
00:39Though the loss was the same, it was very different for each person.
00:46I don't think I've really ever told anyone how much it hurts me to think about the pain I've caused
00:53everyone else.
00:54I still feel bad about Joshua.
00:57I'm sure I always will.
00:59Why are you carrying all of this?
01:02I guess because, because now my daughter's bringing it up again.
01:07Is it about the fact that she's gone public with this?
01:11And maybe it was something that she...
01:22But I want all of us to.
01:24Mm-hmm.
01:25When I heard Lydia say that she feels like she can't talk to me, that just broke my heart.
01:29Because really, I'm here.
01:32I try to give my older kids space, you know, to live their lives and do their own thing.
01:37But I'm here to talk anytime.
01:40At the same time, I feel like I need to set some boundaries with Lydia about what she can and
01:45can't talk about publicly.
01:47Right now, they need their mom.
01:50Because not only did they lose a sibling, they lost their mother for a period of time.
01:55Yeah.
01:55And that's okay.
01:57It's completely understandable.
01:58But I think it would be important for you to allow them the space to say whatever it is that
02:05they need to say.
02:06I guess I just want to know how to better facilitate the whole family.
02:11Maybe the reality is it's not the play-by-play that is needed.
02:16Because for whatever period of time, and this is no fault of your own, this is just grief, you might
02:22have been present but not available for them.
02:25I know it would be tough for you.
02:27But even if it's that play-by-play, you have to sit there.
02:32Because if you walk out, it'll be like you're doing it again.
02:38They need you to hear them.
02:43Grief is internal.
02:45And that's why we stay in grief.
02:48Mourning is external.
02:50That's when we start to verbalize the things that we may be avoiding saying.
02:55So how does saying it...
02:57It releases all that's all trapped inside of you.
03:03And you know what?
03:04Let me give you a way to do it.
03:06What about if you were to tell it as a story to Joshua?
03:15Joshua, this is what happened on that day.
03:21It was supposed to be this, and we were doing this, and we were doing that.
03:26And in the hurry and scurry and bustle of life, did this.
03:35Yes, ma'am, I got you.
03:39I got you.
03:43You do not have to do this by yourself.
03:46But I know without a shadow of doubt, you've got to do it.
03:54And guess what else you're going to tell Joshua?
03:57You're going to tell him how much you miss him.
04:00You're going to tell him how you have committed your life to being the best that you can possibly be
04:05with what you know and what you have.
04:08You're going to thank him for the time that you had with him.
04:17But Kim, you have to do that.
04:23Can I get a second opinion?
04:26You can get one from me.
04:28No.
04:30No.
04:32You need to hear this today, because it's time.
04:43The worst part is graphic, what I saw.
04:49And I can't...
04:51You don't have to say that, but you can address it in the way of seeing you in that way.
04:58Feeling that I caused him.
05:00Yeah.
05:03Made me feel X, Y, or Z.
05:09I think the biggest thing that may be affecting Kim today is the fact that Kim has not forgiven herself.
05:16She hasn't.
05:18And this meeting can go either way.
05:20It can be a 50-50.
05:21She's going to hang in there.
05:22She's going to take it.
05:23It can be she's going to get up and leave.
05:26All right, dear.
05:27Thanks for the insight and input and all that.
05:29Absolutely, absolutely.
05:31If Kim is going to start this healing journey, and it is a journey, it's going to start with
05:37her sitting with those children, hearing their truth, and then her at some point telling them
05:43her truth, she's going to have to be able to take all of that.
05:48So can she do it if she wants to?
05:56Dr. Ty has given me some things to work on.
05:59It doesn't feel cathartic yet.
06:01It feels overwhelming.
06:02I don't know how I can do this.
06:04But I have to try.
06:12Hey, I'm at work right now.
06:14Oh, okay.
06:15Well, real quick, I just wanted to let you know I did a counseling session with Dr. Ty.
06:23Okay.
06:24And we talked about Joshua, and I know you said that that's something you wanted us to
06:30all talk about, and I'm ready to do that now.
06:36So I was thinking Saturday, come to the farm?
06:41Okay.
06:42Are you up for that?
06:45Yeah.
06:45Okay.
06:46Sounds good.
06:47Okay.
06:48Okay.
06:49Okay.
06:49I know you've got to run because you're working, but we'll talk later.
06:55Okay.
06:55Okay.
06:55Love you.
06:56Love you.
06:57Bye.
06:58Bye.
06:59It looks like we're on for Saturday.
07:02I'm a little nervous about sitting down and talking with everybody for many reasons.
07:08I'm planning a surprise party for their first anniversary, but there's having to address
07:15the whole Zach and Lydia talking to everybody about how to live a holy life, and we have
07:23to somehow address all that, but then there's also what are they going to say when we talk
07:27about Joshua and how hard is it going to be to hear.
07:30But if Lydia needs me, I want to be here for Lydia.
07:47So how's your family doing?
07:49My dad's doing really good.
07:50He's real happy.
07:52I feel like your dad's always happy.
07:54Yeah.
07:56So Mariah's here.
07:58She flew down.
07:59Well, that's good.
08:01Micah, I think he was going to come, but as usual, he had other stuff going on.
08:10Yeah.
08:11Today we're celebrating Zach and Lydia's one-year wedding anniversary.
08:16I'm looking forward to seeing the family today at the celebration.
08:20And Ethan informed me that before that, that the family's going to sit down and clear the
08:25air about some interpersonal family drama that I guess has been going on, and also sitting
08:32down to talk about Joshua, who's Ethan's youngest brother who's passed.
08:38Thank you for inviting me.
08:40Thank you for coming.
08:42While I'm staying down here in Georgia, I'll be staying at a hotel, and Ethan's been staying
08:47with his family.
08:49Everybody's excited to see you.
08:50When we were together, I used to, you know, stay with the family.
08:53We're not together anymore, but I think we definitely made, you know, improvements on
08:59our friendship, so I think that's really good.
09:02Now we've done the Montana trip together.
09:04We've seen his house, and so we're at a better spot.
09:09Friendships are easier to build than a romantic relationship, and I think that's, you know,
09:15the right direction.
09:15I think we're making gradual progress.
09:20I have some exciting news about my divorce.
09:24Yeah.
09:28My ex, she finally got back to the attorneys and sent them all of her information.
09:37She did sign it, so they sent it to the courts, and now the court will review it and sign
09:42it,
09:43and then it'll be done.
09:47Finally, I'm divorced, so that's definitely a great feeling, but put that in the dustbins,
09:57move on, finally.
09:59It's something I've been waiting on for a long, long time.
10:04That's good.
10:05I mean, it's been a long time coming, and I'm sure it'll be nice for the both of you to
10:08have, like, that fresh start and that baggage gone, you know?
10:13When we broke up, my two biggest things to get back together were we'd have to be somewhere
10:19close together to dating in, and then him being divorced.
10:23So, in terms of us, it does give us more of, like, an open-door opportunity.
10:30Yeah, we'll see.
10:33Tegan wanted me to get divorced for a long time.
10:36I think she's happy.
10:37It's definitely a good thing.
10:42Do you know what Zach told me?
10:44No, what?
10:45He had, like, some things that he felt were concerns about you.
10:51About me?
10:53Yeah.
10:55That's not good.
10:56He said, there are, like, three things.
10:59He thinks you're using me for money.
11:01Okay.
11:02He said, he referred to your daughter as baggage.
11:12And he said that, like, your sexuality or whatever is something that I should not be okay with.
11:19The audacity.
11:23Lydia's lifestyle that she lives now has the foundation of the values that Barry and I taught
11:28her growing up.
11:29Is it then hypocritical for us to say Zach and Lydia are being judgmental for telling
11:36other people what to do?
11:38They're trying to tell us how to live.
11:41Where should I sit?
11:43I feel like we just need to clear the air with some things first.
11:47I know that you've interjected yourself many times about frivolous things.
11:50I don't really find it respectful.
11:53Man, so I'm a problem for the whole family.
11:55Got it.
11:56Cool.
12:05Um, I think I need something to lay across these napkins so they don't blow away.
12:10I'm planning a surprise party for Zach and Lydia's first anniversary tonight.
12:15Lydia has said that that night before her wedding was the worst night of her life.
12:20I hate that for her.
12:21I wish things had transpired differently.
12:24I can't do anything about that in the past, but I can try to give them a really great first
12:29anniversary.
12:31Everyone's coming out.
12:33Ethan and Tegan.
12:34Lydia and Zach.
12:35Isaac.
12:36Barry.
12:37Mike is unable to come.
12:38I really wish he could.
12:39I miss him.
12:44Isaac built a gorgeous bench.
12:46We're going to carve Joshua's name in the bench, and we're going to talk about where on the
12:53farm to put this bench in Joshua's memory.
12:58But before we can get to those things, we kind of need to clear the air because there's
13:03been some hard feelings with Lydia and Zach.
13:07Zach and Lydia have been sitting people down and telling them that they're not pleasing God.
13:13Yeah, nice.
13:14That looks really good.
13:16Lydia's lifestyle that she lives now has the foundation of the values that Barry and
13:21I taught her growing up.
13:22Parents have to decide what is good and not good to teach their children.
13:27I mean, all parents do that, regardless of what their exact values are.
13:32So is it then hypocritical for us to say Zach and Lydia are being judgmental for telling
13:41other people what to do?
13:43The difference is teaching your children versus sitting down other adults and telling them
13:50how they should live their life.
13:52I mean, I feel like Lydia and Zach want to honor God by living a very pure lifestyle.
13:59I think that's a wonderful thing.
14:02The rub is just simply they're trying to tell us how to live.
14:08I'm determined to work on that and resolve that.
14:12Ultimately, I want some kind of family cohesion here.
14:15I mean, I want us to all be in a good place.
14:19And it's really important to me right now to mend this relationship with Lydia.
14:24If opening up and having a more difficult conversation is what needs to be done,
14:29then I'm all in today.
14:36The last couple days, I've just been, you know, thinking through stuff about Joshua.
14:42And we're going to talk about Joshua, remember him.
14:46And I feel like it's going to be okay.
14:52I'm not a professional.
14:54I think that Kim talking to the children is kind of long overdue.
14:59I don't think I'm very tight.
15:01I think Kim has buried a lot of that inside herself.
15:05And today is going to be therapeutic for her.
15:08She really does want the children to understand and know exactly what happened.
15:13And she wants to honor Joshua.
15:15That looks amazing.
15:23Okay, I'm going to go see if Amber's free.
15:26Yeah, see if Amber's free.
15:32Zach said that, like, your sexuality or whatever is something that I should not be okay with.
15:38And I was just like, I just told him, like, if I want input from you, I'll come ask.
15:46Zach has pretty much gone to everyone and voiced his concerns about what they're doing.
15:52From the most minor thing, like what they watch, to a relationship, whatever he did with me, too, about Deegan.
15:58I figured I should let Deegan know ahead of time.
16:00What some of those things were before it just came up in the meeting.
16:04I don't know who he is to judge or speculate my sexuality.
16:09I've been nothing but honest with Ethan and our relationship.
16:12I was very upfront and clear about how I feel about sexuality, how I view my sexuality.
16:18And so he's, you know, fine with it.
16:22And if he wasn't, I would have never dated him in the first place.
16:26Especially given what he went through.
16:29You know, no offense, you and half of the internet speculate.
16:35I mean, they still do.
16:37Like, I never judge them for waiting till marriage to kiss, you know?
16:41Zach's second concern had to do with me being a mom.
16:45My gut reaction is to be very upset because you shouldn't talk about anybody's kids or parenting styles,
16:55which I know he's done in the past with Kim and Barry and stuff and their youngest kids.
17:00Telling them what TV shows, like, they can or can't watch or games that are, like, inappropriate.
17:06So that's been happening for a while?
17:08Yeah, since before they were married.
17:10Zach has a lot of opinions about, I think, kids in general.
17:13And, you know, when he has his own someday, he can raise them how he would like.
17:19I believe Jesus sat with sinners and saints, so...
17:24Interesting.
17:26Pretty much comes down to that she's not as religious as he thinks a partner of mine should be, I
17:31guess.
17:32That's pretty much the bottom line.
17:33But that's not his business.
17:36It's really unfortunate, given that he's so godly.
17:40Like, who is he to judge, you know?
17:43I know my mom's got some stuff that she wants to work out, Lydia and Zach, about Joshua's death
17:50and how Lydia and Zach said they wouldn't tolerate people talking behind their back and all that.
17:56Zach wouldn't tolerate people talking about him behind his back?
18:00Yeah.
18:00And then he does it?
18:02And so we're all like, well...
18:05Ironic.
18:06Yeah.
18:07Ethan's a wild card, so he might confront Zach.
18:12I know he's very protective of me.
18:14I know your family does have so much love for each other, you know?
18:18I hope for everybody's sake that today is constructive and positive and, you know, hopefully everyone's just open.
18:25Yeah, I hope I can keep myself composed.
18:27It's just some stuff that's been getting under my skin.
18:34Hey, Tegan, can you come in here for me?
18:36Yeah, of course.
18:37It sort of feels like being called to, like, the principal's office or something.
18:40Oh, God, am I in trouble?
18:42Like, I have no clue what's coming.
18:45Kim says she's ready to talk about Joshua.
18:47So we're actually pretty excited about that because...
18:50That would be good.
18:51I was very hurt that you talked about my deepest, darkest feelings.
19:17Well, today we're going to talk about Joshua and also about Lydia and Zach talking publicly about his death and
19:25all that stuff.
19:27My mom has been through a lot and Joshua, his death is very hard for her to think about, talk
19:34about, hear about.
19:36And it is for me, too, not to the degree that I'm sure I can't even imagine, you know, for
19:41my mom, it's different between me and her.
19:43But I think the goal for my mom is to clear the air between her and Lydia and her and
19:49Zach in regards to Joshua.
19:51For the rest of us, I think it's to voice to Zach our frustrations about him constantly inserting his opinion
19:59into things that we feel are not asked for.
20:02And it is kind of hard to engage or have a relationship or build a relationship with somebody when that
20:09always happens, you know.
20:16Hey, Tegan?
20:17Yeah.
20:17Can you come in here for me?
20:19Yeah, of course.
20:23Hey.
20:24Hi.
20:27Oh, God, am I in trouble?
20:28Like, I have no clue what's coming or what to expect.
20:31I haven't seen her in about, like, a month or so.
20:34And we're on great terms, but it sort of feels like being called to, like, the principal's office or something.
20:40I don't know if these necklaces are ever going to be separated.
20:43Hey, I know I'm no help with these nails, so.
20:44But I feel like, you know, I just wanted to talk with you, you know, check in.
20:52Yeah.
20:53I want to make sure Tegan's okay, that she's not just thrown into something, especially if it comes up, you
20:59know, talking about her.
21:01And, you know, Zach's concerns about Ethan dating her, I just want her to have a heads up that that
21:07might come up in conversation.
21:10We just have to clear the air because Lydia and Zach have been doing and saying things that have hurt
21:15a lot of people in the family and telling them that their lives aren't honoring to God.
21:20Yeah.
21:20And to me, all of that with you kind of falls in that category.
21:27When Zach sits people down in the family and tells them what they're not doing right, overall, it's a feeling
21:33of judgment.
21:34It's a feeling that Zach and Lydia have figured out how to live, and it's their job to tell us.
21:43It feels like they think they're better than us, and they're not better than me.
21:49I have some more battle scars than they do, but, you know, we're all children of God.
21:56Zach going to Ethan with concerns about me, you know, because obviously, you know, it was sort of upsetting to
22:01hear.
22:01But at the same time, I don't want to cause any unnecessary drama, because I guess I don't think today
22:10would probably be the best day to talk to him about it, I guess, on my side.
22:13Like, I don't want to ruin anything.
22:14And, I mean, I feel like there can be a time or place for helping somebody.
22:21Healthy, healthy conversations.
22:21But it's got to be from a place of love and not condemnation or judgment.
22:26Yeah.
22:27Yeah, it does feel like it's a lot of judgment.
22:30We're a big family.
22:31We're going to have differences.
22:33I mean, there's no getting around that.
22:35We just have to learn to love each other and tolerate our differences.
22:39A quilt has many colors.
22:40If you make a quilt out of all one piece of fabric, it's boring.
22:45Hopefully, the conversation will go better than my trying to separate these necklaces.
22:51Okay.
22:52That was great talking to you.
22:53Thanks.
22:56Okay, well, I'm going to find another necklace.
22:59I'll see you out there in a little bit.
23:08Okay.
23:13Oh, it's cute.
23:16A few months ago, all of us sat down.
23:19Liddy and Zach had things they wanted to talk about, you know, with everyone.
23:22And I think that went pretty well.
23:24Now, there's things that the rest of my family wants to talk about with Liddy and Zach, so it's kind
23:30of the other way around.
23:30But if these things aren't addressed, everyone's going to kind of, like, I know my family.
23:35I know myself.
23:36We're just going to kind of push it away and avoid it.
23:39And that means maybe not talking to them very much, not inviting them to things, kind of steering away from
23:45it.
23:45Then they're going to feel isolated, which I think they already do.
23:47I definitely don't want Liddy or Zach to feel like we're sitting them down to beat them up and make
23:52them feel better or anything.
23:53That's not the intention at all.
23:56Hopefully, it'll be a constructive conversation.
24:04Is Dad coming?
24:07He's supposed to.
24:09I didn't tell Zach and Liddy that we needed to clear the air first, because I didn't want them to
24:15worry ahead of time.
24:16I didn't want them to not come.
24:19And I kind of feel like I, I mean, I did, I brought up these things to Liddy before.
24:24So we're talking about things that we've already addressed with them that were never resolved.
24:31Yes, I'm sorry.
24:33I know.
24:33I know.
24:38Kim says she's ready to talk about Joshua.
24:41So we're actually pretty excited about that, because I know Liddy has confided in me a little bit about some
24:51of that.
25:00I think it's good to have the opportunity for her to confide in her family a little bit about the
25:11incident.
25:19All I know about the conversation is we just want to talk about Joshua and if there's any lingering issues
25:25regarding his death.
25:26It does measure well that Kim's the initiator here to be able to hear where she's at now, has she
25:34processed things, is she at an okay place?
25:36And so to hear her initiate this and let us know where she's at is a very good thing.
25:44Where should I sit?
25:47Either that chair or the one back there.
25:49Oh, goodness.
25:50Hi.
25:52Today marks the year of the brothers talking to Lydia just about their disagreements with our marriage.
25:59And that was just very, very heavy for us.
26:03So, yeah, our emotions are kind of wild coming into this, but we're here.
26:11Hi, Mariah.
26:12Hi, Mariah.
26:12Hi.
26:12I like the earrings.
26:14I found them.
26:15I guess I left them here.
26:16Yeah, there's coffee over there.
26:18No, it's okay.
26:18I think I'm going to go do some cooking.
26:20Okay.
26:21I know.
26:22Is Amber in there doing some cooking?
26:24She's in the house.
26:25I didn't come out to see any of you guys.
26:27I'm aware that everybody's going to have a chat about stuff.
26:31And for me, I just told everyone that I didn't feel like I needed to be a part of it.
26:39But Hamster, Amber, her nickname is Hamster, she told me she wants me to help her bake a cake.
26:44So, we're going to do that.
26:46I'll be in the kitchen.
26:48Okay.
26:48Okay, cook it up.
26:53Well?
26:54Well, I think it's going to be a nice day.
26:58It was saying it was going to rain, and then now it's saying, like, cloudy, which is good.
27:06Is this a weather meeting?
27:08Yeah, this is a weather meeting.
27:12I really don't know how to get it started in terms of the painful stuff, the hard conversation.
27:20I'm kind of skirting around it a little bit, because I really don't want to hurt Lydia and Zach's feelings.
27:26There's some things that I want us to all talk about, like, you know, Joshua.
27:32Isaac made a bench, and at some point today, we're going to sign it, and, like, Woodburn sign it.
27:41In memory of him.
27:42Just family, like, immediate family, like, who was here, you know?
27:45Yeah.
27:45Us kids and mom and dad.
27:47Yeah.
27:48But I just wanted to take a minute and just see if there's any, like, I feel like there's some
27:55things that we might want to talk about first.
28:18Amber, yeah?
28:20Do Lydia and Zach know that this is for them?
28:22No clue.
28:24You can go ahead and put the cakes in the oven if you want.
28:28Okay.
28:30Everyone's outside clearing the air on some things, and Amber and I are attempting to bake a cake for Lydia
28:37and Zach's party tonight.
28:38It's Lydia and Zach's one-year anniversary.
28:43How do you do it without it going?
28:45Is there a way?
28:46You should do it very slowly.
28:52I thought it was slow.
28:53I started learning to like how to cook, but I haven't learned how to cook yet.
29:00Like, I was baking a peach cobbler, and it went perfectly, and it was really good, and then I set
29:06it on top of the stove, and I didn't turn the burner off, and it baked the whole thing, and
29:09I went to move it, and it popped into, like, 500 pieces.
29:14So I fired myself from the kitchen for a while until now.
29:17I'm going to try and bake this cake.
29:20What time do you put the cakes in, Mariah?
29:22We'll say 1240.
29:27I know there's some stuff with Zach that people wanted to talk to him about, and he and I have
29:33had those conversations.
29:35I invited Lydia and Zach to Montana, and they got to see my life, and then they just, you know,
29:41sat down with me and told me the things that they didn't like after the fact.
29:47Whatever.
29:48We'll clean it up afterwards.
29:49Yeah, that's fine.
29:52I could have mushed it in a little bit.
29:54It never works.
29:55Zach and Lydia weren't happy with the fact that Mariah was, you know, drinking around me and just the other
30:00life choices of hers, and they sat her down and talked to her, told her that she really shouldn't be
30:04doing that around me and shouldn't have liquor in her house and just stuff like that.
30:09After Lydia and Zach sat Mariah down and talked to her about what she needed to change in her life,
30:14she told me what happened, and then on our way to the airport, we all talked about it in the
30:17car.
30:18You know, Lydia starts crying, and Zach starts, you know, saying, you know, everything that we did wrong on the
30:23trip.
30:25It's just not always, like, pleasant and comfortable when you are given, like, a list of things that, like, someone
30:33doesn't approve of, and they're like, okay, thank you.
30:38What do I do with this?
30:39Uh-oh.
30:43I just told him that it wasn't his place and that, you know, if it came from someone like Lydia
30:48or someone, you know, it would be a little bit different, but it didn't feel right for him to marry
30:54into the family and then right away go tell everyone how to live their lives.
30:58When I told him that, he was like, no, but I have to.
31:01Like, it is my place.
31:02And I just kept telling him, well, it's not really, and then it went on for, like, a long time.
31:06He was telling him it wasn't his place, him saying that it was, and then eventually we just, I was
31:10just like, okay, well, if we could just move past this, you know, I won't hold it against you.
31:14And I wouldn't say we resolved it, but we kind of just agreed to disagree.
31:19And then I was like, oh, shoot, we still have, like, four hours left.
31:22So that's when I was like, oh, no, this is going to be uncomfortable.
31:32Um, I feel like we just need to clear the air with some things first.
31:38You know, I was very hurt that you talked about my deepest, darkest feelings, and then also speculating that that's
31:48why Barry and I divorced.
31:52Like, I'm glad you brought that up, Lydia, about Joshua, but I really didn't like how it was brought up.
32:06If I'm being honest, I didn't like what I saw.
32:09One of the things that you guys made very clear was before anyone talked about someone else, they should talk
32:16to them first.
32:19That's definitely, I would say, falls in that category.
32:22Mom didn't care for it, especially not having talked to her first, you know.
32:27And my personal opinion, you know, I don't, I don't really like talking about Joshua publicly, unless it's remembering him
32:34for who he was when he was alive, but talking about the death publicly.
32:38I personally don't like that.
32:41I don't think it's respectful to him.
32:44I think that that would be something that you, this is what I would do, talk about it with mom
32:49or dad or a therapist, but mom's already got a lot of for how she raised us.
32:56Putting that on the internet, I wouldn't do it.
32:59Obviously, you can do whatever you want to do, but, you know, at least talk to mom first.
33:09I did not know that the conversation would include Kim addressing public statements that Lydia had made about Joshua's passing.
33:17I mean, that's a touchy subject and there's different emotions involved.
33:21So, you know, there's those hurdles to overcome, but this is a conversation that just needs to happen.
33:43Yeah, I mean, basically, if you're going to go on a podcast and talk about me, I'd like a heads
33:48up first and we can see, you know, what I can clear up any misunderstandings, you know.
33:59Mom brings up what I said publicly about Joshua.
34:02And I know her and I mentioned it on our car ride, but I guess it wasn't talked about too
34:07much.
34:08So maybe it wasn't fully resolved.
34:10Why not?
34:10I mean, I've, I've really, I've done that with Zach.
34:13Zach's been my safe place to really just get everything off my chest.
34:20Well, I'm, I'm sorry if, I mean, it wasn't meant to be about you.
34:23It was meant to be about my experience and, and I don't blame you for anything.
34:31Like you were going through your own hell.
34:33There's, you don't deserve any blame.
34:34Yeah.
34:35For anything.
34:36And as far as correlating that to the divorce, it's like, honestly, I've kind of just been left to speculate.
34:44Yeah.
34:44Cause I don't really know.
34:45But the, the issue is Joshua's not really in the mix of that.
34:48Joshua, yeah.
34:49Joshua had nothing to do with it.
34:49Cause that's kind of a separate.
34:50Yeah.
34:51It really was just between the two of us.
34:53That had nothing to do with Barry and I getting divorced.
34:58Barry's always been supportive of me in regards to Joshua and his death.
35:04And that, that means a lot to me.
35:07I'm really sorry if it caused you any hurt.
35:10I didn't know the question was going to come up and I guess I didn't think it all the way
35:16through.
35:19I think a part of it is just, she hasn't been able to talk about her experience.
35:23And because every time she's tried to talk about it, it can't be talked about.
35:28She hasn't had the opportunity to confide in you.
35:33There hasn't been those opportunities to even talk about Joshua.
35:38I don't agree with what Zach's saying.
35:41I talked about Joshua to my children whenever they asked.
35:44And I did try to talk to Lydia on the road trip and she was quiet.
35:48But the parts that I couldn't talk about was the graphic stuff.
35:56I'm sorry if I shared too much or said anything I shouldn't have.
36:01Yeah.
36:03Kim and I tried to address the topic with the children at their age appropriate level that they could understand.
36:10But, you know, now we're just, they're fast forward, they're grown, and they still have questions.
36:15You're welcome to talk to me about Joshua.
36:18You know, you can, and that's kind of what we're going to do a little bit later today is we're
36:22going to talk through more of that.
36:25So, yeah.
36:26Well, I think if you want an opportunity to talk about them, try to do that first before just going
36:30out publicly, you know.
36:31Yeah.
36:37I'm glad mom brought this up.
36:40It definitely affected her, and so I want to know about it and know how I can do better in
36:44the future.
36:45And I get what Ethan was saying about, like, you know, sharing his life and not the tragedy of his
36:53death.
36:53But at the same time, it's affected me in every way.
36:59It's affected how I handle stressful situations.
37:02It's affected me when I hear a siren.
37:05Like, it's just affected my life.
37:07And so we can't just ignore that and only talk about the good stuff.
37:13It does hurt.
37:15The goal with all this is not to pick on anybody, but just come closer together.
37:22Is there anything else that anybody wants to share or you guys or concerns or thoughts?
37:36I don't know if anyone else wants to say it, but I kind of want to clear the air with
37:41you, Zach.
37:47I don't know if it's coming from a good place, but all the critiques that you give to the younger
37:55kids, Mariah, you know, talk to me about her.
37:59And I know that you've interjected yourself many times about frivolous things that my family's doing, what shows they're watching,
38:07what games they're playing, whether you think it's right or wrong.
38:09And I feel like it's an overstep.
38:12I don't really find it respectful.
38:17It's, I feel like, ironic that he's bringing up all of my conflicts when he's given me a lot of
38:25conflict.
38:26And I've never brought it up to him.
38:29Like, throwing me out of the farmhouse.
38:31Like, calling me gay.
38:33Zach could sit down and throw a lot at Ethan if he wanted to, but he...
38:37I'm not holding him to it.
38:38You've never talked to him?
38:39No, because we want to move forward, past the hurt, and just be a brother.
38:46Whenever I do anything that's even remotely wrong, he is so detailed on it, and then decides to speak for
38:54the family.
38:56Man, so I'm a problem for the whole family.
38:58Got it.
38:58Cool.
38:59Okay, I'll just shut up.
39:01I'll be never around.
39:09I do want to try to build a relationship with you, and I find it hard to do that.
39:13I would appreciate it if you kept your opinions to yourself, and not just with me, but with the rest
39:19of my family.
39:22You're exporting your opinion into lands that don't want to import?
39:26Yeah.
39:27If someone's judging me, I'm just like, okay, I'll judge you too.
39:32They're my kids.
39:33They're Barry's kids.
39:34We're the ones that need to decide things on raising them.
39:38I just feel like, time and time again, Zach's always misunderstood.
39:47Am I supposed to just wrestle them and just have fun?
39:51I don't know.
39:52I don't know what to do.