00:00Greg Rosenthal, the NFL Network, host of the NFL Daily Podcast, which is available wherever you listen to podcasts, joins
00:06us here on The Fan.
00:07Greg, how are you doing today?
00:09I'm doing great. How's it going?
00:10It's good. We've just been trying to get everything all figured out.
00:15One part of us is like, how much do we like Jared Verst? It seems like everyone really does.
00:20And the other part is, how much are we going to miss Miles Garrett?
00:22But before we get into some of the nitty-gritty part of this, what exactly did you make of the
00:27trade involving those two players?
00:29And obviously the Rams and the Browns.
00:31I was stunned. Now I got the feeling that there are some reporters who had an idea that this could
00:37be coming ahead.
00:38But overall, especially from a Cleveland perspective, first of all, just seeing a move like this happen just never used
00:45to happen in the NFL.
00:46And so I love it as someone who's covering the league.
00:49But I was, frankly, excited for Browns fans at what they got for Miles Garrett.
00:56Thought it was a pretty good trade for the Cleveland Browns' future.
00:59And was surprised at a lot of the negativity of how dumb Andrew Barry could be to trade away Miles
01:04Garrett.
01:06Yeah. Let's talk about that for a second.
01:09Andrew Barry's resume has on it the Deshaun Watson trade and contract, which arguably, worse than NFL history.
01:16Now he has to trade away, or has traded away, I should say, arguably, the best defensive player in Browns'
01:24franchise history.
01:26Not great on the resume, but at least with one of those moves, this one with Miles,
01:33why do you think this potentially could work out heavily in the Browns' favor, despite, again, losing a future Hall
01:40of Famer?
01:41Look, I think it's a good trade for both teams, too.
01:44I think it works out for the Rams.
01:45But from the Browns' perspective, Jared Burst isn't just like a good player that you're adding to the mix.
01:52He is, in my mind, a top 10 edge rusher.
01:55We just did the exercise literally two weeks ago where we drafted edge rushers.
01:59I think he went 12th on my personal big board.
02:02I had him 10th.
02:03But that's the area he is after only two years in the NFL.
02:06So you have a top 10 to 12 edge rusher with three years of team control left on his contract,
02:14which I don't think should get lost.
02:15That is a huge part of the deal, plus the three picks that they get.
02:20And ultimately, you had a guy in Miles Garrett that I don't think really wanted to be there.
02:25But more importantly, I don't know if him playing at the exact same level as he did a year ago
02:31was even going to matter for a team that I don't think is going to make the playoffs this year.
02:35And so you start thinking about a team that you want to make the playoffs, I would say, in 2027,
02:40starting then.
02:41And you think Jared Burst is going to be a big part of that.
02:44And then those draft picks as well.
02:46And when you consider the finances, to me, if you're going to trade away an all-time great like Garrett,
02:52all the parameters, what they got, and his lack of interest, maybe even in being there,
02:57it all made sense to me that they got a fair value.
03:00Greg, I do want to ask you about Jared Burst, though.
03:03You said you had him in your rankings.
03:04I think you said you finished 10, right?
03:06But they had 12 overall within your podcast.
03:09But one concern I have, and I think he's a good player.
03:12I think we all agree he's a good player.
03:14He's obviously made Pro Bowls for a reason.
03:15A lot of it makes sense.
03:17But the Rams don't really have bad players in the D-line anyway, right?
03:21Like what Shula's been able to do, he's able to really, I'm not going to say maximize the talent around
03:26there,
03:26but there's talent everywhere.
03:27And so I worry about him going from L.A. to then coming here and whether or not we'll see
03:33an Ascension.
03:33It seems like this would be the prime spot for him maybe to, if anything, almost flatline.
03:39That's fair.
03:40That is a system in L.A. where you've got to worry about a lot of different people.
03:45To me, he has a very specific prototype.
03:47He is your power, push-to-pocket edge.
03:50It is incredible, the leverage and strength that he plays with.
03:54I love watching players like this.
03:56I think you could look at him as a more complete version of what Jadavion Clowney kind of resulted in
04:04being in.
04:05And that guy was the number one overall pick in the draft.
04:07But you're absolutely right in that he's not a pure pass rusher all on his own.
04:12He needs to be part of a larger pass rush plan where him, you know, destroying the pocket is part
04:18of the entire team.
04:20Obviously, you have a top five pick from a year ago.
04:22I like Alex Wright there on the other side.
04:24On the edge, it's not like you don't have anything.
04:27But, you know, I don't think he necessarily will ever be a top five edge in the league.
04:32He said he wants to be the greatest defensive player in the league.
04:35To me, he's going to have to learn how to be a better finisher.
04:37But just in terms of, man, in terms of the energy, the aggression, and then the strength that he plays
04:45with, he is rare.
04:47And every team would love to have a version of Jared Burst.
04:50And he might be the best version of that type of player that's in the league right now.
04:54No one here in Cleveland would accuse Miles Garrett of being the leader in the locker room, certainly on the
05:01field, leader of the defense, with the attention that he commands.
05:04But do you think Jared Burst naturally could, because he sure sounded like it yesterday when we talked to him.
05:12But do you think that that's, while he might not be able to specifically, you know, sack for sack, replace
05:19Miles Garrett, but do you think from a leadership standpoint, that's a void he might be able to help the
05:24Browns fill?
05:26No question, because I think he helped to do that as a rookie on the 24 Rams team, which he
05:32helped improve.
05:33I live out here in L.A., so I've been there at their practices camp.
05:36It is pretty rare for a young player like this to be looked at as, like, a mature leader type
05:44and help to, I think, inspire what was a really young group, but that he probably was the leader of
05:50that young group.
05:50The last couple drafts where they had four, you know, early contributors, the aggression, I can tell you personally, like,
05:58the Rams love Jared Burst.
06:00And so I do think that is part of it, the type of player that you want there is a
06:05guy like Jared Burst, and I think that's an advantage that you had when you bring him to the team.
06:10The fact that the Rams did not want to give up Jared Burst in this trade, allegedly, Andrew Barry said
06:17it, I believe the Rams said it this week as well.
06:22Does that pump up the stock as far as what the Browns actually are getting in Jared Burst?
06:29Because, obviously, there's a lot of Browns fans that look at him that maybe haven't seen a lot of him,
06:34and they just kind of, like, shrug their shoulders and maybe don't appreciate what this guy is as a young
06:40player just two years in the league and the impressive resume he's already built up.
06:46Right.
06:47It all rings true to me, and I know they were negotiating for a while, because the deal just doesn't
06:53make sense without Burst.
06:54I would much rather have Jared Burst than a first-round pick.
06:57I would actually rather have Jared Burst than a first plus a third, because at some point, I think a
07:03bird in the hand is worth more.
07:06And he's, like I said, still contract-controlled for the next couple of years.
07:09So if you're the Rams, of course you're trying to give them a million picks.
07:13I mean, the Browns were helping to try to change the rules to give them a million picks.
07:18From a Browns perspective, like, from a Browns perspective, I simply wouldn't have done the deal without Jared Burst in
07:25it unless they were able to change that rule and make it, like, five first-round picks.
07:30Then it's a little different.
07:31Greg Rosenthal, the NFL Network, host of the NFL Daily Podcast.
07:34It's available wherever you listen to your podcast.
07:36Joining us here on the Wise Heart Right, We Make It Right.
07:38Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
07:41Yeah, there's so much that's about this that is just fascinating to me.
07:43But one thing I've just kind of been left wondering, Greg, is did the Browns, I'm not going to say
07:48screw themselves, but make it harder on themselves in the idea that they just only opened this up, it appears,
07:54to the Rams?
07:55And they wanted to keep secrecy, and that seemed like that was at the front of this.
08:00But would the haul have been greater if they had just been openly, we're shopping miles, this is what we're
08:05doing, everybody come with your best offer?
08:09Where they put themselves in a corner was last offseason and not trading him then.
08:15So if you want to go back and criticize that, because at that point, and I don't know if that's
08:19ownership or how that ended up happening, they gave him a no-trade clause.
08:24And that's probably the most underreported, underrated part of this entire deal.
08:29He could absolutely control the process in a way that is extremely rare, almost unheard of for the NFL.
08:36It just so happened that the team I think that was going to be the most aggressive going after him
08:41when they adjusted his contract was a team he was going to be excited to go with.
08:45But at that point, you're right, you're basically negotiating with one team.
08:49I have tried to do some reporting, and from my sources, I don't think necessarily the Eagles or any other
08:57team were ever particularly in on it.
08:59You're right, I think it was one team, but I think his no-trade clause really made that complicated.
09:04So if they screwed themselves, to use your words, I think they did it a year ago when they gave
09:09him that contract.
09:10Well, I think also, too, Miles, they were not trading Miles Garrett to the Arizona Cardinals.
09:17You know what I mean?
09:18He's going to get to go to L.A., and obviously the pressure's now going to be on him, where
09:23it's not just going to be about sacks and records and whatnot.
09:26The Rams are trying to win a Super Bowl, and he's thought, I mean, in my understanding of the situation,
09:31he's thought to be the missing piece in this whole thing for them, isn't he?
09:36No question.
09:37They view him in the same light as Aaron Donald.
09:41Now, they're not going to put him at that level, because to them, that's the greatest defensive player of all
09:46time.
09:46I wouldn't argue, but in the way that they believe he's going to improve the talent around him, just as
09:54a guy who has so much gravity that you have to game plan for.
09:59And my colleague, Jordan Rodriguez, who does NFL Daily with me, had a great piece about it.
10:04And look, they used to consider Aaron Donald, they used to joke, was the best cornerback on the entire team,
10:09because he just made all the cornerbacks so much better.
10:12And I think they really see Garrett as that way, as a guy who is unlike any other player in
10:18the entire NFL right now, as a unique talent.
10:21And that changes their team to a point where now they can win games with defense.
10:26They can win games with offense, too, sometimes.
10:28They got the MVP, but maybe if Stafford's not having his best game, that this defense could be up there
10:34with the best defenses in the league.
10:35Greg Rosenthal joining us here, host of the NFL Daily Podcast.
10:38If I credit the NFL Daily Podcast, which I'm a listener to, one thing I like about you guys, Greg,
10:43is that you're not just focused on six teams and then call it a day.
10:47You guys do spray to all different fields, and basically you touch them all.
10:51And for Browns fans, we sometimes just get overlooked at this part because we have no national games coming up
10:57this entire season.
10:58Obvious reasons, right?
10:59So I know you're the person nationally to have paid attention to the quarterback battle here, but how much of
11:05an interest do you actually have in Deshaun Watson versus Shador Sanders?
11:11Plenty, because I don't want to see Deshaun Watson play football.
11:14And again, I'm sick of it.
11:16I'm sick of, like, the case being made that now it's going to work when just the evidence is completely
11:22to the contrary.
11:23Even throwing out everything in terms of the sexual assault allegations and the suspension, all of that that made him
11:31an easy person for, I think, us nationally to root against.
11:35Like, I just feel like he's a sunk cost, and I'm rooting for Shador Sanders in that battle.
11:40Because to me, it's just going to be more interesting to see Shador with a fun, I think, young core
11:45of players.
11:46I like Casey Concepcion, a great deal.
11:49I loved what I saw when John Jenkins was healthy a year ago.
11:52The offensive line, we'll see, but it's at least, on paper, intriguing.
11:57So to me, that's just from a kind of layman's point of view of someone who doesn't have skin in
12:02the game.
12:03Like, that's a more interesting team to watch.
12:04If it doesn't work out, then they'll be looking for a quarterback next year.
12:07Yeah, I'm kind of with you there, Greg.
12:09You know, Shador's going to get an opportunity.
12:11He is getting an opportunity, I should say, to pass or fail on his own merits.
12:18This isn't a situation where he's not getting practice reps.
12:21The reps are pretty evenly distributed between these two.
12:24What is fair to expect of Shador Sanders?
12:27Because I think we also have to remember, he is a fifth-round pick.
12:30Now, I know his family believes he's still a top-five pick, but the reality was, he was a fifth
12:35-round pick.
12:36And so, what is fair to expect from him?
12:40And if he doesn't win this competition, does that mean that Shador has failed in some respects?
12:47No, because I think he's going to start games either way.
12:50Unfortunately, the bar is going to be really high for him.
12:52If he can win the Week 1 job and keep it throughout the season, he will be playing at a
12:57really high level.
12:58Is it fair to expect that?
12:59No, probably not for a second-year player.
13:01He has to improve quite a bit.
13:03I think what you're hoping for with Shador is to get to sort of that middle-tier, you know, replacement
13:10-level starter level.
13:12To me, he does some good things.
13:15He's certainly not afraid back there to make tough throws.
13:18I think he's a creative player.
13:21But he needs to be more on time, on rhythm, a little more predictable.
13:25I think his rookie season was up and down at best, like it is for a lot of rookie quarterbacks.
13:29But the problem for him is, look, both him and Deshaun Watson have one year here.
13:34And if they don't really show a lot this year, they're going to be looking for a new quarterback next
13:40year.
13:40But it makes sense to me to at least see what you could have with Shador.
13:45Because if you can get him to kind of a middle-tier starter level as a second-year player, a
13:51really improved player,
13:52even think about what Bryce Young did as a second-year player once he really settled in, at least he
13:57improved.
13:59Then you feel like, okay, we have options for what we're doing for 27.
14:02Maybe he's the guy, maybe not.
14:03But we at least have a good base to build from.
14:05And they probably don't feel that way right now.
14:07Greg, fantastic insight as always.
14:09We appreciate you giving us a few minutes, and we'll catch up with you later.
14:12Great talking to you guys.
14:13All right, good stuff right there.
14:14Greg Rosenthal, of course, NFL Network, host of the NFL Daily Podcast.
14:18It's available wherever you listen to podcasts.
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