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00:00I can't go into 2026 accusing Kevin of what I accused him of for so long.
00:04Doing what I accused Kevin of doing for so long.
00:07You remember years ago, get back to LeBron coming up,
00:11but you remember years ago when we used to sit here,
00:15even though his usage rate was high, we used to get mad.
00:18Fourth quarter would come around.
00:20It's like, why is Nick Chubb standing on the sidelines?
00:22And then they would show Nick and he was like visibly annoyed
00:25that he wasn't in the game in critical situations.
00:30And I said to you in an exasperated tone that I thought if Vince Lombardi came down from heaven
00:40and looked at Kevin Stefanski the day before a game and says,
00:43listen, you give that ball to Nick Chubb 30 times, I guarantee you're going to win.
00:49And I thought Kevin would look back at him and say,
00:51what the hell are you doing here?
00:53You've been dead for years.
00:54No, I thought Kevin would look at him and say, are you guaranteeing me?
00:58I won't win if I don't hand him the ball 30 times.
01:02Because my whole thing was, and I think that's actually been proven right,
01:05I think they wanted to win their way.
01:07They wanted to win, but they wanted to win their way.
01:11I have a lot more fun talking about Shador Sanders than I do Deshaun Watson.
01:16Guilty as charged, right guys?
01:18Guilty as charged.
01:20But I'll tell you this.
01:21Do we just want to win?
01:23We just want to win.
01:24So I can't be upset if Deshaun Watson is the, I can go, well, we'll see how the conversations go.
01:31I could be upset.
01:32But if we just want to win, then does it matter who starts at quarterback in 2026?
01:38I got to go with the guy who's been in high-level football, coaching high-level football for 40 years.
01:45And that's Todd Munkin.
01:47I mean, I think I know it, which probably makes me stupid and dangerous.
01:51He's a guy who actually knows it.
01:53So don't I have to go with it?
01:54And I kind of want to ask the people, like, there are a lot of fans out there.
01:57You brought it up at 620.
01:59They're just flat-out calling some of the beat reporters liars.
02:02You're a liar because of Deshaun Watson throwing a good ball.
02:07Do you care who starts at quarterback just as long as they win?
02:10Or do you just don't think they're going to win, so you don't want to see Deshaun Watson start at
02:15quarterback?
02:15Well, I've seen some say they absolutely don't want to see Deshaun Watson win games
02:21because then you're approaching contract extension stuff.
02:26And, like, what?
02:26Are you going to tether yourself to Deshaun Watson for how many more years?
02:31Like, that would be undesirable for, I think, most of the Browns.
02:35Like, you'd find a way to have fun in the interim.
02:38Like, you can't lie.
02:39I don't think that's as bad.
02:40If Deshaun Watson's winning games and you're going to the playoffs and he looks like the 13th best quarterback in
02:47the NFL,
02:47like, you'll have fun with it.
02:49You will also be like, oh, my God, what's on the other side of this?
02:52Like, can we trade him at his peak?
02:54That's not as bad a conversation as I think a lot of us make it out to be, myself included.
02:59Yeah, you will have fun with them winning games.
03:00Don't lie.
03:01Like, I've seen some people say, I'll put the t-shirts back into the, you know, like, in the closet.
03:08Like, you're going to go to the games.
03:09You're going to have interest.
03:11You'll find a way to root for everybody else that he's throwing the ball to instead of him.
03:16It's, yeah, I mean, he's not, I'm not backing down.
03:20I don't think he really likes it here.
03:21I don't really, and I don't think fans like him here.
03:24The majority of them.
03:26But I also think that they want to see him win football games.
03:29If we're going to keep these guys around, like, it's not just Miles.
03:31I mean, we talked about Miles to death.
03:33It's also a guy like Denzel Ward.
03:34You got Denzel Ward on your football team.
03:36You got other veterans on your football team.
03:38It's like, hey, let's make the most of this.
03:40Let's try to make the most of this.
03:42And there's so many things that click into place as why a veteran would have the inside track on this
03:49job.
03:49And I brought it up several times.
03:51The experience, the former play, even though it was six years ago, the way he used to play.
03:57And also, remember, you've got a bunch of different offensive linemen out there.
04:00A guy who has more professional experience would probably be better suited than a second-year guy going into a
04:05season where you have basically an entirely new offensive line.
04:08I mean, you might have Parker Brailsford as your center, who's a fifth-round pick as a rookie starting center.
04:14You're going to have a rookie in Spencer Fano over there at left tackle, and you're going to have a
04:18bunch of free agents who came over who are going to be on your offensive line.
04:22Joel Batonio, I don't believe, is coming back.
04:23I mean, we've been talking about this for a long time, and then we didn't talk about it for a
04:26long time.
04:27So I don't think he's coming back.
04:28So I think that Deshaun is probably – there's a lot of things that say, yeah, he would be the
04:32guy who's more apt to it.
04:33And I just – I want to know because I don't want to get trapped into it.
04:36I don't like the prospect of Deshaun Watson playing over Shador Sanders because he reminds me of what could have
04:43been.
04:43And Shador – maybe Shador's not the future, probably not the future, but I'd like to give him a chance
04:48at it.
04:48But if we're trying to win football games, and they are, then, yeah, I guess I'm going to have to
04:54accept it and see what happens.
04:55And I'm willing to – if they go crazy and they end up winning a bunch of games, then, yeah,
05:00I'll have the discussion.
05:02Let's have the argument of whether or not we just cut our losses, get out while the getting's good, make
05:07a trade.
05:08Sell high.
05:08Whatever that needs to be done, sell high.
05:10Or if we need to go ahead and go, well, you know what, we're drafting this way or the other,
05:14and maybe we do need to franchise tag him or give him a contract extension again.
05:20You know what happens because of that?
05:22I'd much rather have that conversation than to be sitting there talking about, woe is me, my dog just died.
05:27I'd much rather do that, wouldn't you?
05:29I would.
05:30You know, it's funny because you're having this conversation, all those words are coming out of your mouth, and I
05:34kept going –
05:35You're just watching me talk.
05:36You weren't paying attention.
05:37I kept going, wait, Deshaun Watson really going to play that well?
05:39Is it really that possible?
05:41Or is he just better than Shador, who, you know, in the end, I don't know.
05:47Obviously, he has a very fervent fan base, but, you know, if you ask people around the league, they just
05:52assume the Browns are going to have a new quarterback next year.
05:54Yeah, but a lot of people would.
05:55I still think Shador might be better off.
05:57I know this will feel like a loss in the short term.
06:01I think he would almost be better off having Deshaun win this competition, no matter how you think it's fair,
06:08balanced, or not at all.
06:09However, it's weighted.
06:11And then you get to come in, you know, in week five or week six.
06:14Because if you start right away with the new build offensive line, all these young weapons who don't know anything
06:20about this league and are just going to be playing by feel,
06:23there's only so much development you can get in that rookie year.
06:26Like, I think you might be much better coming off the bench and having a chance to kind of observe
06:31things in a far more normal year than what last year was.
06:34This is where a lot of people can be on the same side of this, and they're going to have
06:37to get together on this.
06:38Because there's something that we do have in common on a lot of this.
06:42Now, I think that it got away from Kevin, but there's a lot of people who thought that Kevin did
06:46not do right by Deshaun,
06:47and they certainly feel that he didn't do right by Shador.
06:49So you may feel that, hey, if the common denominator is Kevin and he's gone, let's see what Deshaun Watson
06:55can do.
06:56I can't go that far because I think that we've been fooled several times over thinking that this guy is
07:00going to be able to get the job done.
07:01So my conversation begins with, if he wins the job, fine.
07:05But I don't want to be sitting here at the end of September going, well, we wasted more time.
07:11Let's put the new one out there or put the second-year kid out there, and let's see what the
07:15second-year kid can do.
07:16Maybe he should have been starting it.
07:17That's where I think a lot of that conversation could end up going.
07:20Because I know he's throwing good balls in practice.
07:22I've seen him throw good balls in practice before.
07:25You've seen him throw good balls in practice before.
07:27That doesn't carry a ton of weight with me.
07:30It's better than the inverse, right?
07:31It would be better than, my God, if he can't even do this now with no real pass rush.
07:36Nobody can really touch him or breathe on him.
07:38That would be different.
07:39It is good to hear that some of that athleticism looks like it's back because that was a major question.
07:44How could it not be?
07:45He's been working out for two years almost.
07:47Well, just because the later you get in your career, the more hits you take, and the more surgeries.
07:51But he hadn't been taking hits for two years.
07:52But it seemed like the ones he did take were agonizing to him.
07:56And he was like the walking wounded when he played.
07:57Well, that's why I got to tell you this, and this is just for football's sake, for football's sake.
08:01Shador has to, he can't get down about this.
08:03I know that the moment that they announce, I think that Deshaun Watson is going to end up being the
08:09starting quarterback.
08:10And when he is, I bet there's going to be a lot of people who are Shador fans who demand
08:14trades and are going to be upset.
08:16That's fine.
08:17That's actually understandable on my side of things.
08:19I understand it.
08:19But I think for Shador, it is going to be so incredibly important to remain ready and ready to go
08:25and continue to take in this offense and be ready to go.
08:28Because what have we seen in Deshaun's history?
08:31I mean, he hasn't been healthy in how long?
08:33Even in the great rookie year, we have a torn ACL.
08:36We have injuries in college.
08:37You've had two Achilles injuries on the same Achilles.
08:39You've had a shoulder injury.
08:41I mean, this guy has been banged up.
08:43He has been.
08:43I've got to tell you, I think he's more brittle than what we ever make him out to be.
08:47And I think just recently, Browns fans have accepted that.
08:50But he is often injured.
08:52So the chances of Deshaun Watson making it through a 17-game season are not that high.
08:58Shador is probably, regardless, I think Shador is going to have to start football games this year.
09:02Yeah.
09:03That's why I said, not the end of the world.
09:05I know everyone's going to say, if he doesn't win the battle, and the minute Todd Munkin addresses the media
09:10and says,
09:11here's our depth chart, QB1 is Deshaun Watson, I guarantee all the Shador fans will say the same thing.
09:17Trade him.
09:18Trade him then.
09:19He's now a hostage.
09:20Get rid of him.
09:21You guys have wronged his career.
09:22Well, I can understand that.
09:24I really could.
09:24If I wasn't a Browns fan.
09:26How many teams in the NFL is Shador Sanders, who was a fifth-round pick a year ago,
09:31and the entire league passed up on him how many times?
09:34Five times.
09:34And then he played the weight.
09:35Whatever it was.
09:36And then, let's be honest, take off the Cleveland Homer vision goggles.
09:41He was one of the worst rookies production-wise we've ever seen.
09:44We can blame everything else around him, but the facts are the facts.
09:47He was a fifth-round pick.
09:48Let me play Shador fan.
09:50Can I play Shador fan with you?
09:51I'm asking, I'm going to ask a question.
09:52How many teams in the NFL would Shador Sanders be starting for this year?
09:56I don't know.
09:57I had that argument last year.
09:58I don't remember.
09:59Maybe three.
10:00Really?
10:01Us, the Cardinals, the Jets, right?
10:03Wrong?
10:04Maybe I'm wrong.
10:05I've got to remember who's playing for who right now.
10:07It's been a minute.
10:09The Falcons?
10:11You mean the Falcons have two?
10:13They traded for it.
10:13I know.
10:14They traded for two.
10:14Or they brought in Tua.
10:16Yeah, he would start.
10:16It's a joke.
10:17Yeah, but the reality is, like, there's a chance it's zero.
10:21There's a chance there's zero out of 32 who would start Shador Sanders tomorrow.
10:24Okay.
10:25But you're asking me as a Shador fan.
10:28Trade him.
10:28Cleveland.
10:29Just get rid of him.
10:30I'm already seeing it.
10:30I'm already seeing it from fans.
10:32Like, where do you think he's going to go and be in a good situation?
10:36Because you guys all want a great offensive line, great running back, great wide receivers.
10:40Like, a great head coach.
10:42Where does that exist for Shador?
10:43You're arguing with people who just dropped in on the Browns.
10:46You and I have been talking about the Browns from kingdom come.
10:48So, this is not new to us.
10:51But if I'm a Shador fan, then I'm dropping in on the Browns.
10:55They took him in the fifth round.
10:56Well, if I'm a Shador fan, I don't believe that Shador was a fifth round pick.
10:59That's fine.
10:59I think he was better.
11:00But the league does.
11:01So, I understand that.
11:02It doesn't matter what we think.
11:03The guys who draft the quarterbacks.
11:04Okay, but let's not be silly with each other.
11:06There's been plenty of preconceived notions where we thought the guys should not have been drafted where they are.
11:11And there's been plenty of situations we thought the league was wrong on certain places.
11:13If you were available tomorrow to be traded, is anybody trading something better than a fifth round pick?
11:19No.
11:20So, the answer is he's still a fifth round pick, guys.
11:22Okay.
11:22I wouldn't use that as an argument anymore.
11:24But you ask me.
11:24I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here, even though I do like him.
11:27If I'm not a Browns fan coming into this, and I just dropped in on the Browns and Shador is
11:31here,
11:32well, what's the Browns name to the rest of the country?
11:35Mud.
11:35Yeah.
11:36So, you don't believe in the Browns.
11:37You don't believe in how they can bring along quarterbacks.
11:40I mean, the jersey's famous.
11:41So, you have this notion that they're doing wrong by Shador.
11:45Why wouldn't you say to trade the guy?
11:47Now, you know that you're probably not going to get a whole lot, and I don't think they care.
11:52I really don't.
11:53If somebody were offering a third round pick for Shador right now, he'd already be gone.
11:57That's probably true.
11:58That is 100% fact.
11:59100% fact.
12:01That's probably true.
12:01Oh, it's not in his head.
12:03Yeah, yeah.
12:03Because you guys know it's right.
12:04It's probably true.
12:05But the league isn't offering that because they don't think he's that good.
12:08They didn't think he was that good coming out of college.
12:10Okay, but that's not even the conversation that I was having right off the bat.
12:13I mean, I'm talking about Deshaun Watson and him starting the season, and if he starts
12:17the season, like, I can't go back to Kevin Land and go, well, I just want to win my way,
12:21so I want Shador to play.
12:23I'm not going to be happy if Deshaun Watson played.
12:25What, I'm going to sit here and cross my arms if he actually does have a really good game
12:29that's above 167 yards that he got the game ball for?
12:32Like, if he goes out there and he throws for 280 and three touchdowns, and they win week
12:35one against Jacksonville, I'm just going to sit here like a bump on a wall.
12:38No, hell no.
12:38I can't do that.
12:40Because eventually, we have to look at the future of this franchise.
12:43But the future of the franchise, I think, is taking one week at a time because eventually,
12:47if Deshaun Watson gets hurt or ends up sucking up the room, either are tremendous possibilities.
12:53Shador's got to play.
12:54And I wouldn't want to trade Shador.
12:55Man, if you had a chance.
12:56I would not want to trade Shador.
12:57I know a lot of people would be yelling about trading him, but I wouldn't want to trade him.
13:00If you had hard-earned money that you could put down on a wager and say,
13:05if Deshaun Watson is a starting quarterback week one, is he the starting quarterback week six?
13:10Who is betting yes right now?
13:14So, Shador will get his opportunity.
13:16Boy, you're right.
13:17Like I said, it's not the worst thing in the world.
13:18It may even be a better thing for him.
13:20Because if he starts the season and they're discombobulated coming out of the gates,
13:24do you remember the first year of Kevin Stefanski when he won coach of the year, the first game of
13:27the year?
13:28Like, if Shador had to go through that and it was rough in the first month of the year,
13:32that could be his last chance.
13:34He might be done.
13:34He might be done.
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