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00:00It is Danny Cunningham here on the show.
00:03Danny, I was so disgusted with James Harden after that performance yesterday
00:07that I compared him to the Lakers' Carl Malone in 2004 in the NBA Finals.
00:14For younger viewers and listeners who don't remember the young Carl Malone
00:19or the old Carl Malone, let's just say he was unable to dribble the basketball
00:24or do anything basketball-wise in that series,
00:26and that's what I saw yesterday out of James Harden in the second and third quarter.
00:30How does he find his handle again?
00:33I don't know what's going on there.
00:35I don't know if it's still the thumb bothering him,
00:37but I went back and watched all 20 turnovers that the Cavs had last night
00:43against the Pistons because the Pistons are obviously a very, very good defensive team.
00:48They did a great job during the regular season of forcing turnovers.
00:52They had the most points off turnovers per game in the NBA,
00:55and I counted at least eight, and I wanted to be a strict grader on this.
00:59I counted at least eight that I didn't think the Pistons' defense had anything to do with,
01:03that the Cavs just screwed up, and some of them were James Harden just losing his dribble
01:08and basically handing the ball to Duncan Robinson.
01:11Duncan Robinson, can you explain the Duncan Robinson one?
01:14Now, thank God in the fourth quarter he got matched up on Duncan about four straight times.
01:20He got by him every time, so that's a good sign.
01:22So I just don't understand how he's crossing right into guys' legs
01:28and dangling arms like he did with Cade.
01:31Like, this should not be – Cade's not a lockdown defender.
01:34He's got size.
01:35He's not a lockdown defender.
01:37No, he's not.
01:39He's a good defender.
01:40He's not a great defender, but I think that this was a lot of unforced errors.
01:44It was self-inflicted wounds that the Cavs have.
01:47I watched that game last night, and I realized that these two teams are very different stylistically
01:53as far as defense goes, comparing Detroit and Toronto.
01:57Like, Toronto thrives on Cavs.
01:58Detroit's much more structured.
02:00Asar Thompson's an awesome defender.
02:02But I watched the way the Cavs played against Detroit's defense last night,
02:05and I thought that their issues had more to do with themselves than had to do with anything that Detroit
02:10did.
02:11Now, if Detroit did some good things defensively, don't get me wrong,
02:14but this was an instance where I thought the Cavs really beat themselves with their turnovers.
02:18Like, if you take away the eight turnovers where the Cavs just did something wrong
02:23that Detroit didn't even do something right, I think this is a totally different game.
02:27The Pistons scored 31 points off turnovers, which is 10 more than their season average was,
02:34which, again, was first in the NBA, so give them credit because it's something you're good at.
02:38I think this is a game that the Cavs probably find a way to win because everything went wrong for
02:43them again,
02:43and you have to question why does this keep happening.
02:46Like, it kind of felt like I was watching game three or game four against the Raptors once again.
02:51What did you think, Danny, when Kenny Atkinson said postgame that the energy level was much lower than Detroit's?
02:57Is that just because they played on Sunday, or is there something else that you didn't like that you saw?
03:03I thought he was correct when he said that, but also, like, Detroit played on Sunday, too,
03:08in a game seven against Orlando in a series that they had to work very, very hard to come back
03:13and win,
03:13and probably only won, truthfully, because Franz Barker got hurt,
03:16but, like, the Pistons had to play Sunday.
03:19Like, both these teams were at the same rest of disadvantage, if you want to call it that.
03:23This was not a thing where if you had the Pistons beat the Magic in five games,
03:27I think that would have been way more understandable,
03:29and we probably would have seen Detroit win by more because both teams would have been gassed in a way,
03:34or only one team would have been gassed, unlike what we saw last night.
03:38So I think that is another issue.
03:40Like, I didn't think it was an issue the entire game.
03:44I thought the Cavs had better energy in the second half,
03:47which is why they were able to make a comeback and eventually tie the game.
03:51But the first quarter of that game that the Pistons won by 16
03:56looked to me like we were watching the Cavs play a basketball game
03:59inside Little Caesars Arena in February instead of May,
04:02and you can't come to a playoff game with that type of energy,
04:06or you're going to get run out of the building.
04:09And I didn't think, again, that the Pistons played some great game.
04:12I think they'll be much better at times, and I think the Cavs will be better at times, too.
04:17But this, to me, was the Cavs did not look ready for this game.
04:22I don't even want to say the moment.
04:23They just didn't look ready at the start because they lose that first quarter by 16 points in a game
04:27that they win the final 36 minutes by six points.
04:30Like, they can absolutely play with this team.
04:33They just need to show up and do it.
04:36Dan Cunningham is joining us right now on the hotline.
04:39So, Donovan Mitchell brought up the fact that he's not really getting a whistle.
04:44He's not getting to the free throw line in these playoffs.
04:47And I had the numbers earlier.
04:48I mean, routinely, he gets to the line in playoff games double-digit times.
04:53Last year against Indiana, two different times he got to the line 21 times.
04:57He averaged 14 in the series this year.
04:58He's averaging two free throws a game.
05:01That is crazy.
05:03We're not talking about a 40-year-old Donovan Mitchell here.
05:06We're talking about it in his prime, Donovan Mitchell.
05:09So, at some point, it's not the officials, right?
05:11If it's every game, it's got to be Donovan, right?
05:15I don't know that it's entirely Donovan, though.
05:18Like, his drives are down a little bit.
05:20At least they were in the first series.
05:21I have not had a chance to look at the tracking numbers from last night's game to see how many
05:27drives he had.
05:28But in the first series, he had just under 12 drives to the basket per game.
05:34And in the regular season, he had 14.1, I believe it was, drives to the basket per game.
05:40And he was shooting 6.1 free throws per net, I believe it was.
05:44Well, with that down to two, and like his drives are down a little bit,
05:47and I think a lot of that in the first series had to do with how Toronto played him stylistically,
05:52just because he had the basketball a little bit less.
05:54So, I do wonder if this is Donovan not driving as much, or if it's something else.
06:00Because, like, there were a few instances last night where I felt as if Donovan maybe could have gotten a
06:05call.
06:06And there were certainly times against Toronto where I felt as if he could have gotten a call.
06:10But I also, like, I look at last night, where Detroit is supposed to be this team that is super
06:15physical.
06:16They fouled a ton in the regular season.
06:18I don't think there was a team in basketball that had more free throws shot against them than the Pistons
06:24did per game.
06:25So, for Donovan to not be able to find a way to the line against that team, and it's only
06:29one game, and who knows?
06:30Maybe tomorrow night in game two, he'll shoot 15 free throws, and this narrative will go away.
06:36But it is bizarre to me that he has not been able to get to the line,
06:38because that is part of the thing that makes him awesome.
06:41Like, I thought he looked more comfortable last night.
06:43I thought he looked better, truthfully, last night than he had in any game since game two against the Raptors.
06:48So, if he can start to find a way to get to the line, I think he's going to start
06:52to look like Donovan Mitchell again.
06:53But that doesn't feel like a sure thing right now.
06:57How much of last night, too, was Jared Allen getting in foul trouble?
07:00Cavs led 5-0 out of the gate.
07:02And I know it's very early in the game, but how much did that affect what they wanted to do?
07:07I do think that had a decent effect, because I don't think that the Thomas Bryant minutes went all that
07:11well.
07:12And I don't think that Thomas Bryant was in the rotational plan going into that game.
07:18I'm not sure that Keon Ellis was in the rotational plan either going into that game.
07:21But when Sam Merrill got hurt, he kind of took Sam's minutes.
07:25And I think that this is the thing that Kenny Atkinson handled wrong.
07:28Not that Jarrett was great in his minutes.
07:30He was nowhere near the guy who was in Game 7 against Toronto on Sunday night.
07:36But he should have played more than 18 minutes.
07:39I know that he had those three fouls, and I understand you've got to pull him when he gets his
07:44third in the first half.
07:45I totally get that.
07:46But in the second half, he only played 12 minutes.
07:48And he only picked up one foul in that time.
07:50And the Cavs were a plus 10 in the 12 minutes that he played.
07:54So for him to not play somewhere between 16 and 18 minutes of that second half, I think is uncoaching.
08:01Because at that point, foul trouble stops being an issue.
08:04And I think that, and I'm sure you guys will agree with this, foul trouble matters more the better you
08:10are.
08:10Like, if Donovan Mitchell picks up four fouls, it's a bigger deal than Jared Allen.
08:15Because you need Donovan Mitchell to play 35 to 40 minutes a game.
08:18And I think Donovan probably should be playing heavier minutes than he is right now, too.
08:23But four fouls for Jared Allen is not the end of the world.
08:26It can't be the end of the world.
08:27And I think that he was glued to the bench a little bit too much in the second half.
08:31Even if he only played five minutes in the first half, I think he needed to be around 22 for
08:37the game.
08:37So I do think that's on Kenny Atkinson.
08:39And I think that is one of the things.
08:41And I don't know if that changes the outcome here.
08:43But I think that's one of the things that he needed to do a better job of.
08:47All right, Danny.
08:49Last night, I thought Evan Mobley actually came out and showed some aggressiveness.
08:54And then it kind of deteriorated over time.
08:56And he didn't look totally comfortable in a lot of those lineups that we saw.
09:01And I think he could have helped them a little more.
09:04But he's getting crushed by, again, a lot of national folks, a lot of the usual suspects.
09:10And fans have mentioned him a bunch today.
09:13What did you think of his performance?
09:16I thought he was fine.
09:17I didn't think he was great.
09:19It wasn't anything exceptional.
09:21I thought he had his moments, certainly.
09:23And I do like that the Cavs are using him in inverted pick and rolls.
09:26And he's able to get to the basket off the dribble a little bit more.
09:29And, like, I think that there are some things to take away from that game that you should feel positive
09:33about with Evan.
09:34I didn't think it was the best game he's played.
09:36But I thought he was light years better than he was in games three and four against Toronto as well.
09:40So I think that's worth bringing up.
09:42Like, that was not the worst playoff game that he's played.
09:45And 14-9-5 is not the greatest stat line for him.
09:49But I don't look at Evan Mobley and think, yeah, the Cavs lost because of that guy last night.
09:53Like, it was an okay performance.
09:55I expect him to be better in game two.
09:58But I don't think it was some postseason dud either.
10:01Are you starting Struis over Wade tomorrow if you were Kenny Atkinson?
10:06I would start Jalen Tyson if I were Kenny Atkinson.
10:09All right!
10:10I don't think that he would do that.
10:11But that's the direction that I would go.
10:14I think Struis' energy off the bench is really, really important.
10:18And I would also, I just want to say, I would not be surprised if Max Struis is in the
10:23starting lineup tomorrow night.
10:24Because he, and I was against doing that in the series against the Raptors.
10:29Because I think that the defensive drop-off between him and Dean Wade in that particular series,
10:35in that matchup against Scotty Barnes, against Brandon Ingram,
10:39like, I think that that drop-off was more severe.
10:42Where Max historically has done a pretty good job defensively against Cade Cunningham.
10:46And I know Cade will probably have better games in this series.
10:50But his numbers against the Cavs during the regular season in this matchup,
10:53and I know Max did not play in those games,
10:56but his numbers against the Cavs this year were pretty similar to what they were last night.
11:00And his numbers against Max Struis last year were pretty similar to what they were last night.
11:05So, I don't think that there's as much of a defensive drop-off with Max against this particular matchup.
11:12And I think the same thing is true with Jalen.
11:14Like, if you look at the way that, and I know Jalen Tyson did not score a single point last
11:19night.
11:19Missed the only shot he took in 17 minutes.
11:22But he was a plus nine, and I felt like he was their best defensive player that they had.
11:26He gave Cade Cunningham a lot of problems when he was on the floor.
11:30The same was true during the regular season.
11:32I think he's the best guy for that job.
11:34And truthfully speaking, the Cavs' starting lineup was one of their worst defensively last night.
11:38So, they didn't get that defensive upside that you're looking for.
11:42And Dean Wade went back to not being aggressive as an offensive player,
11:47where I thought one of the big important things about the end of that series against the Raptors is
11:51Dean Wade was getting them up, and he has to get them up to stay in that starting lineup.
11:55So, if he's not going to, and that defensive upside is not the same,
11:59I do think that they should go to Shrews or to Tyson.
12:02All right, Coach, after the game, talked about lack of energy and said Detroit was like at a 9-9
12:09or close to a 10,
12:10and they were way down, you know, from where they needed to be.
12:14But then I look over every time, and J.B. Bickerstaff was talking to the officials the entire game,
12:18was standing, was animated, was pacing up and down.
12:20We remember J.B. from his five years here.
12:22Kenny was glued to his seat for the better part of three hours on the broadcast.
12:27Are they taking their cues from him?
12:30You know, I've not thought about it like that, because I ultimately think that, like,
12:35you're a professional athlete that shouldn't be on the coach to motivate you, certainly not in the playoffs.
12:40So, if they are taking their cues from him, I think that's a problem with the roster and the mentality
12:45of this team.
12:45Like, I don't look at that, and Kenny did not have a good game last night,
12:49and I don't think he had a good series against the Raptors.
12:51But I don't look at that as something that I think is an issue.
12:56The way that he is, you know, sitting on the bench during the game, I don't look at that as
13:01an issue.
13:01I think that there are some lineup choices that were an issue.
13:04How maybe prepared or not prepared this team was for game one could be an issue.
13:09I don't look at, like, the energy as being a thing on Kenny Atkinson's plate.
13:15That needs to be a clear-led thing.
13:16Danny, I'm just sorry to interrupt, and we've got to go.
13:19And I absolutely love this conversation.
13:22Just pay attention to Kenny.
13:23I know you're trying to watch the game, and you've got that access over there.
13:27You're doing such a terrific job.
13:28I'm just trying to find out what he does during these games, because he doesn't ride the refs.
13:33He doesn't buy his team any calls.
13:34You're obsessed with this.
13:35You know, I'd like to see him maybe buy a few calls.
13:37Coaches do.
13:38Phil Jackson was legendary at doing this.
13:40Popovich was legendary at doing this.
13:42There's a fine line between, you know, going overboard, which we always thought JB did a little too often.
13:46And, man, yesterday, it was the entire game.
13:49And, hey, what do you know?
13:50Free throw advantage, 35-16.
13:52I don't know.
13:53Maybe also get in a player's face when you're not happy with effort.
13:57Like, you can do that, too.
13:58That's legal.
13:59You can hold guys accountable.
14:01Like, see Kenny do something.
14:02That's all.
14:02It's only the playoffs.
14:05Well, maybe he can help get Donovan Mitchell to the free throw line.
14:08That'd be a good thing.
14:08Yes.
14:09All right.
14:09Thank you, Danny.
14:10Appreciate it.
14:11You got it, guys.
14:12All right.
14:13There he is.
14:13Danny Cunningham locked on Cavs podcast basically daily throughout the playoffs.
14:19Was I being too combative there, Matt Derry?
14:22No, you're not combative.
14:23I'm just saying you love this bit about the whole Kenny Atkinson.
14:26He needs to, like, jump up and down and get a tee and get restrained.
14:29Anthony wants to see some restraining.
14:31Are his legs hurting him?
14:32Is it hard for him to do calisthenics and, you know, maybe jump up and get animated?
14:38It's nice to see a coach get animated once in a while, right?
14:40Is it safe to say you're down on Kenny Atkinson right now?
14:43A little bit.
14:44A little bit.
14:45Look.
14:45He's not the one that dribbled the ball off his foot 50 times.
14:48I get it.
14:48Well, dribbling.
14:49You saw dribbling?
14:50I didn't even see him be able to dribble the ball yesterday.
14:53That was that bad for me.
14:55You think he's like, James, James, drive and just dribble it off your foot out of bounds.
14:57And then when it's rolling there, don't even dive for it.
15:00You know what?
15:00I did have some problems.
15:02I said the usage of challenges in the last series, I think, prolonged the series.
15:05I thought they would have won the series one or two games earlier had he have not foolishly used those.
15:12The use it or lose it timeout, he just doesn't use it.
15:14No, I was stunned last night, and I thought of you too.
15:18Third quarter, Pistons made that run, and he's sitting there.
15:22Like, I would have used a timeout there.
15:23He waited until the TV timeout, I think, and it was like too late.
15:27At that point, I would have used one.
15:28I would have gone all Carlisle on him and used them all up.
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