00:00A one particular media outlet ESPN just put out their list for the series of every reporter and who they
00:08are choosing seven of them chose the Pistons the Cavs just three in fact Bobby Marks says Detroit in five
00:17to talk about that and so much more appealing on the wise heart right we make it right call Kyle
00:24Wright hotline is our buddy Joe Varden from the athletic and before we get to
00:29predictions and all of that Joe what did you do with the Cavalier obituary you had saved and ready to
00:36hit send on there at halftime well good morning I'm looking at Canada across the river here and as far
00:48as your question I promise I was assigned one but I didn't write it because and I think this is
00:57actually a good way to start today's discussion
01:00if this team had lost round one I mean you're you're talking about like a nuclear spill that you you
01:09can't really just clean that up and I I don't know I don't know what that obituary would have said
01:17because the disappointment would have would have really been almost too much to measure there in the moment so so
01:26I had planned in the event of a loss
01:29to figure that out after the game to figure that out after the game um I just didn't think they
01:33were gonna I I didn't I think Sunday went about exactly as I had expected it would it would go
01:40I thought the Raptors would start out strong early but then they were just simply out of gas they didn't
01:48they they had nothing left you know they were out of players um the two players who were awesome in
01:55that series being uh Scotty
01:57and and RJ you know and RJ you know they were just going to get overwhelmed by a Cavs team
02:01that of course played well at home has much more depth um and and was just and is entirely healthy
02:09and so you know was able to wear them down that way but they you know you guys have been
02:15talking about it for for the whole series um they really did play with fire there and you know despite
02:20how much how many uh more advantages
02:24they had when you mess around like that you put yourself in a situation where you are one bad break
02:30away from a nuclear spill so they avoided that and it's on to round two
02:37Joe um how much did that series with the Raptors given the trouble that they they gave Cleveland and post
02:44Cleveland especially defensively
02:45and I know that the guys talked about this the other night a little bit how much do you think
02:50that prepared
02:50them for both this series with Detroit but then also other matchups they could potentially see here throughout
02:56the rest of playoffs that they advance you know I I don't I don't really buy that um I I
03:05don't buy the
03:06preparation one way or the other um it you know I I think I think the regular season has to
03:15matter
03:15I think that's when you build your habits that carry you through in these playoff series um
03:24and we can talk about what happened last year or whatever uh I I I think that and then I
03:32said this
03:33in my in our version of the preview that you guys were mentioning um I I have no I I
03:39have no
03:40expectations or feel for who comes out of the east like if you told me the calves
03:46we're gonna make it I'd say fine if you said it was the Knicks fine Pistons fine like
03:51all these teams are are flawed um and we saw the Cavs flaws and you know you guys want to
03:59get into
04:00this Pistons series so let's let's do it what concerns me probably the most is Detroit is a bigger
04:10much better um much deeper version of what the Raptors can do you know the Pistons are big
04:21and they play a physical brand that this group and I know that this group doesn't have Darius anymore
04:28but most of these guys have still been together for a long time and they struggle all the time
04:34with this kind of basketball so I I am concerned about the Pistons ability to to be physically
04:43intimidating in this seven game series Joe Varden with us on the hotline so a lot has been written
04:51and said about the Cavaliers guard situation between Donovan Mitchell and James Harden and I'm getting
04:59the sense that a lot of people feel very underwhelmed based on what they saw against
05:04Toronto even though I tried to make the case that James Harden his his true shootings up his PER is
05:09up
05:09the rebound steals and blocks way better than anything you'd ever gotten out of Darius Garland
05:14previously in a series and yet I think people just expected them to both drop 30 every game and are
05:20just not used to how the playoffs work so do we need to reacquaint ourselves with the playoffs or do
05:25you
05:25think both of them very underwhelmed I think both things I do think both things can be true
05:34and I appreciated to a degree the respect that the Cavs gave to the Raptors into the series
05:43you know they never they never overreacted to a loss which may be in the moment drove you and I
05:49nuts or
05:49maybe just mean that um but but there was a certain respect they're like hey this is the playoffs the
05:55other guys are paid too and they played they played well they won um but that only works to a
06:01point in
06:02part because um of what the the Cavs two guys have accomplished compared to who who they were playing
06:10against and then also just how undermanned Toronto was by by the end of the series and so then you
06:17look at
06:18what James and and Donovan were doing as the season or as the series went along
06:25James did play serviceable defense it's true and his scoring was fine I mean I've you know you and I
06:31talked about it two weeks ago um I I covered multiple uh series in the playoffs with James you know
06:40having like closeout games or or um something close to that where he's going one for 13 you know
06:47like just disappearing and and I don't that didn't happen in this series but what did happen was he
06:53was throwing it all over the place I think in a three-game stretch he had 21 turnovers um and
07:00and so
07:01that was part of it and then the other part was Donovan was both shot at poorly for a three
07:09-game
07:09stretch like really poorly especially from three um and then just didn't like wasn't able to or
07:18didn't like take over the way that you want that alpha star to take over in those moments like he
07:26just you know he was saying that the Raptors were paying so much attention to him that um it he
07:33was as
07:34good standing in the corner and drawing those those two defenders away from him as trying to force
07:39anything but he had trouble in the middle of the series getting involved so you know um I I think
07:47that that again both things are true they especially with James he did do some things to impact the
07:53games in a positive way that we wouldn't necessarily have seen with his predecessor but also both left
07:59something to be desired Joe Vardin joining us here on the hotline Joe for you through these two
08:07I guess postseason and in the postseason last year in the start of this postseason have you seen
08:12enough or has Kenny proven enough in terms of being able to pull the strings and make the necessary
08:19adjustments because you know I I kind of walked away from that Raptors series series feeling like
08:24Darko outcoached him so where do you kind of stand on on him as as a coach in the playoffs
08:30this time
08:30of year and and whether or not he makes the the right adjustments oh boy um yeah I I think
08:39I okay
08:40let me let me say first that and and I think this is true if you look at my entire
08:47career um so I've
08:48covered David Blatt you know Ty um uh JB whoever John Beeline of course JB Beeline um Larry Drew and
09:01then these guys throughout the NBA like through my eight years now as a national reporter um I am not
09:08criticized the coach guy I did not think Kenny had a very good game six and I'm just that's just
09:14true
09:15um you know there there was a timeout that was left that was that could have been used to get
09:22them out
09:23of the uh the the Schroeder Mobley turnover there was the challenge burned in the first half and then
09:32there was just to me um a lineup changes that I I just didn't think I I didn't think the
09:40situation
09:41called for the lineup changes that they made especially because like Kenny is an analytics guy
09:47and the analytics told you that the Cavs were at their best when Dean Wade was on the floor now
09:53look
09:53like I I thought Max Max had a couple of good games offensively especially game one um I thought he
10:00impacted the game just about every time he was out there um like he does do some things but just
10:06like
10:07if you're looking at the numbers Dean was the guy uh to play with Evan and Jarrett and and they
10:14went
10:14away from that so you know I I I don't want to say that coaching is overrated um I don't
10:23necessarily
10:23mean that uh but but I think that the coaching really comes into play when it's um when all else
10:32is equal I don't think that all else was equal in that series I think there were a number of
10:38a number
10:38of problems so you know I I do think that this is going to be under the microscope here big
10:45time big
10:46time in this series and we all know why uh two years ago the Cavs fired J.B. Bickerstaff
10:53they pointed to him as the problem um they had to they had to move on from him despite all
11:01the
11:01progress had been made in the regular season because they felt it was time to take that next
11:06step so Kenny's here now and they were awesome one of the great regular seasons in team history last
11:13year and then a failure in the playoffs and then what followed a a so-so regular season um with
11:21newfound optimism pumped into the team by by trades for for for James and for Schroeder and and and
11:28Keon um followed by a really rough first round series in which the Cavs were favored in every
11:35game and lost three of them so you know it's going to be fair I mean it's not like fair
11:41to Kenny he
11:42didn't fire J.B. but you know it is certainly going to be a fair comparison that a lot of
11:47people are
11:47going to be looking at this series is well okay how how much different are the Cavs now that the
11:54guy
11:54they had is on the other sideline that's that's going to be something people are looking at all
11:59right when all was said and done in this series we kept hearing so much about how the scores were
12:03equal you know at halftime between the two teams uh in the end the last five quarters of the series
12:09the Cavs absolutely annihilated the Raptors on the offensive glass on a rebounding in total and then
12:16when you saw Jared Allen start to contest everything at the rim you saw a completely different team
12:22emerge maybe it was just that Toronto was gassed but over the course of seven games it did seem
12:26like the Cavs started figuring things out like if this series won another three games I mean I would
12:31just pick the Cavs to take care of things going forward with that said have they finally beaten the
12:38wrap of the toughness thing or where do we even how do we even quantify toughness when it comes to
12:44basketball at this point is it mental is it physical is it just gonna be a catch-all going forward
12:51I think the length of that question Anthony uh tells you that we that there are a lot of there
12:59there is a lot to say about this and and we don't know um I asked Kenny in front of
13:06everybody after
13:07game seven what is this team's identity um he said we don't know yet and I think that's true
13:15that I think it's true I I don't know I don't know what this identity is I thought I really
13:21I like
13:21everything you said I'm on board with like I I love the way they played um especially in the second
13:27half on Sunday going right like going through Jarrett uh the the Cavs played their best basketball all
13:35season long when that's when that's how they played so is that their identity maybe I kind of like it
13:43but like I said at the top of this Detroit is a much bigger tougher version of what they just
13:50say so can they can they play through Jarrett with with um you know Duren and Isaiah Stewart and and
13:59those other big bangers standing there I don't know uh if they can the Cavs win the series um if
14:07they
14:07can't I'm not saying they lose it but then you know you need Donovan and you need James to be
14:14taking the top off of that defense and go crazy from three you know obviously it wouldn't just be
14:18James it'd be a bunch of the you know the Cavs shooters Sam uh so on and so forth um
14:24so you know
14:26I I don't know what their identity is they don't I'll be interested to see if they stick to what
14:33really
14:33worked uh in the last series and then this toughness thing is something that I have you know I I've
14:39been
14:40thinking about because it's not that cliche you know we hit them in the mouth they hit like all those
14:49the playoff stuff it's it's the thing that we were talking about last May it is you build your
14:56habits in the regular season you play through pain in the regular season you play hurt you do all
15:03these things so you're ready to do it when you absolutely have to and I thought last year that
15:10that was not the case and the Cavs had a culture where that that is not expected of them they
15:17they
15:18err on the side of of player health all the time and there's there are there's a number there's a
15:23number of reasons we could list why that's a good thing um but then when you get into these seven
15:28game
15:29series and now you have to play through something it might have been harder for those guys to do
15:35they're healthy now um and they I thought at in a way they did show a certain toughness just because
15:44they didn't panic um maybe it's because they knew they were the better team I I don't know but but
15:50but
15:50I liked a little bit of that we're gonna see it now you know we're gonna see it when we
15:55know there's
15:55a team that's gonna grab that's gonna push you right right in the chest um and we'll see but it's
16:02not it's not a toughness in the NBA is not about um you know who who can fight through the
16:10screens
16:10and who hits the offensive glass it's all this stuff and um that's been something that's followed
16:17them for years and I think it's going to continue to follow them until they advance so win this series
16:24and then we can say something else about them all right Joe Varden appreciate it um it sounds like
16:29you're picking Detroit but we gotta go we're out of time thank you Joe bye guys all right Joe Varden
16:34of the Athletic he will be there in Detroit along with uh Spencer and a host of others that are
16:39going
16:39to be making the trip
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