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00:00You know, I didn't realize it until listening to that open.
00:02We talk about the show.
00:04We go over it.
00:05We analyze.
00:06We want to bring a good show to the people of Cleveland before a pretty sizable game
00:12to Eastern Conference semis.
00:14Later tonight, back to the scene of the crime.
00:17The Cavaliers are in Detroit and it's Nick Padone in for Ken Carman.
00:21Owen is here.
00:22Young John, Ace and Gary, they're all in the back.
00:24I got to tell you, after hearing that and then hearing Nick Wilson and Jonathan Peterlin
00:30right before he ran a great promo for their show, it was outstanding yesterday.
00:34I don't think anybody really knows why this team has lost every road game and why they
00:40do not look at all like the team I thought was going to make a deep run.
00:43Hello, everybody.
00:44I know we also spent about 20 minutes for the show talking about Mike Vrabel, Diana Rossini.
00:48We'll get to that a little bit later on.
00:49Very passionate.
00:50I could have done two hours on that at least.
00:52Nick, welcome to the show.
00:53How are you, buddy?
00:54I'm excited to be on the show.
00:56So are you excited for tonight's game, though?
00:58You just heard the pitter-patter of everybody kind of giving their diagnostic on why they're
01:06in, not just the loss there.
01:07Forget it.
01:08You can always lose a game in the playoffs.
01:11Last night, Minnesota lost by, what, 38 points after they had already seized game
01:17one and home court advantage.
01:18So they basically just punted game two.
01:20Whatever.
01:21It's the playoffs.
01:22You're going to have wild rollercoaster of outcomes in a series.
01:26But the one thing is pretty clear.
01:28Like, this Cavs team does not look remotely like a championship contender.
01:32Not right now they don't.
01:34You know, and they had a prime opportunity, I really thought, to steal that game one, where
01:38it looked like they were heading down the Minnesota Timberwolves path last night.
01:42Like, it looked like they could have very well rolled over and let that game get out of hand.
01:46But they didn't.
01:47They clawed all the way back in the third quarter.
01:50And in the fourth quarter, James Harden finally started to come alive at the free throw line
01:54a little bit.
01:54And then they just couldn't close it because of the sloppiness and because of the turnovers.
01:59And it doesn't look like a championship contending team at all.
02:02But I think we were saying that during the Raptors series.
02:04And then game seven made everybody feel a little bit better.
02:07So we're just currently, I feel like, riding the Cleveland Cavaliers roller coaster.
02:11And today is a very important turn, obviously, on that roller coaster is you want to steal
02:16one of these two road games in Detroit before this thing flips back to Cleveland for game
02:21three.
02:22Yeah, I agree with that.
02:23I just in listening to everybody kind of give an opinion and it's good.
02:29I'm glad this is why I love the playoffs.
02:31You guys know I'm dialed in every night.
02:32My liver is going to be suffering because of it.
02:35But I'm up late.
02:36I'm watching all these games.
02:38To me, these are all such massive games.
02:40The stakes are so high.
02:41We might all just be doing this for second place anyway.
02:44It might just be Oklahoma City that is going to cruise to a championship.
02:47But I thought that last year and they could have lost very easily in game seven.
02:51So I remain hopeful about teams can get out of their shell or can find their identity.
02:58Look at the Knicks right now.
02:59What if they won four in a row?
03:00And yesterday was the tightest of those games.
03:02But, you know, they seem to be playing their best basketball of the year.
03:07But it's Mike Brown as the head coach who I like, but nobody else nationally seems to
03:11like.
03:11Knicks fans wanted him fired to start the series.
03:14So these things can change quickly.
03:16But I'm listening to Kenny Atkinson say, well, we turn it over a bunch every game in the first
03:23half, but we're not trying hard enough.
03:26The effort's not there.
03:28But then the toughness is the question.
03:29And Schroeder's like, oh, no, we're not worried about Detroit at all.
03:32We just need the right pick and roll combination.
03:33So it's the rotations and the play designs.
03:37Like, I'm just, I just think everybody, oh, it's a toughness.
03:40It's toughness.
03:41No, it's got to be toughness that we're not winning the games.
03:43We're just using all these generics as a catch-all to just say, is there a chance Cavs are just
03:49not as good as people like me had been telling everybody they were?
03:53Because I'm looking at a team over the course of five years, they still don't have wings.
03:57You kind of need wings in the playoffs.
03:59I don't know why.
04:00I may have overlooked it again.
04:01Yeah, but you've seen them play better.
04:03It's a, to me, it's a total effort.
04:05When have I seen them play better?
04:06In the regular season, we saw them play better.
04:08You used the word, you used the word there when you were talking about the Knicks and
04:11the four straight wins that they're riding right now, that they've seemingly found some
04:15semblance of an identity.
04:17What's the Cavs' identity right now?
04:19I have no idea.
04:20Turning the basketball over.
04:21I don't, and that's, that's a losing identity.
04:23And then Donovan Mitchell floating that, like, he's going to start foul baiting in game two.
04:28And that was, that's James Harden's identity.
04:30Like, that's right.
04:31I think James Harden was trying to foul bait so hard that he ended up just dribbling the basketball
04:36off of his foot a couple of times.
04:37So, like, maybe that's going to be what they, they try to make their identity.
04:42They just try to beat the Pistons from the free throw line.
04:45I'll say this though.
04:46Like, I worry that maybe, right, the Cavs are a smidge overrated.
04:50Maybe they're not a true championship contender, but here's the other layer of that.
04:53I don't really think the Pistons are either.
04:55I think the Pistons are phony.
04:57So, like, I got to at least get past this series so I could continue to find out things about
05:02this team.
05:03Like, if you lose in round two to JB's Pistons, I effectively have learned nothing about this
05:09team even with Harden instead of Garland.
05:11It would be a devastating loss if, if they lose.
05:14And that's why I want to ask about the stakes of tonight.
05:16I want to get fans in, you know, throughout the show, especially early on.
05:19If you're going crazy about these things like I am, if you're dialed in and you're going
05:24with Detroit, we're going to, we're going to be down two games to nothing.
05:28You know, with the series shifting back to Cleveland at JB Bickerstaff, 216-474-0092.
05:34Oh, and you said something though.
05:35You said, well, I've seen this team play well in the regular season.
05:38Yeah, but this, this.
05:40No, Anthony, they won four games and they didn't look good in any of the four games.
05:43They were just not as bad as Toronto was.
05:46Toronto was bad.
05:48Yeah, they're not a good, they're not a good team.
05:50I think they have good defense.
05:51That's why, that's the only thing that gives me hope that they can do something different
05:55because I've seen them do something different.
05:57I mean, from the moment that Harden became a part of the team, right?
06:01It automatically brought a different energy to the team and they played much different
06:05than they had for the beginning of the season.
06:09That's all went away since the playoffs.
06:11Well, and I thought once they got Harden, I'm like, all right, say what you want about his
06:15game sevens, some of his elimination games.
06:18And they are historically bad.
06:20But one thing I know is Harden is still a killer, even at 37.
06:24And he is going to be able to give this team some credibility at 6'5".
06:29He's going to be able to do a bunch of things that Darius could do.
06:31And I was right about all of that, except for when you have like four out of five possessions
06:37where you gift in a playoff game where it's tough to score points.
06:41Darius can turn the ball over too.
06:42But not like that.
06:43Yeah.
06:44I mean, not like that.
06:45Where he couldn't even dribble the ball.
06:47And another thing about Harden too is I always felt like his playoff struggles, like in Houston
06:52and stuff, like those were always deep in like the conference finals.
06:56Like that's usually when some of what ailed him would bubble to the surface.
07:00And he gets some historic teams.
07:02So like, this is the Toronto Raptors and Detroit Pistons that we're talking about here.
07:07Like I did kind of come into the postseason with a little bit of an expectation, and maybe
07:11it was too much of an expectation, that Harden and Mitchell almost alone should have been
07:17able to power you past Toronto, past the Pistons.
07:20Remember we had that report when the Cavs were up 2-0 about how much they loved this path
07:25to the NBA Finals?
07:26I loved it, but I wonder if they feel differently now, because it certainly feels like it's
07:32unraveled in a different way.
07:34Now, would you say, would they rather have played Atlanta?
07:37Well, Boston, looking back, Atlanta, I wanted to avoid Boston at all costs, because I was
07:42terrified on how our wings were going to be able to neutralize Jalen Brown and Jason
07:46Tatum, even though Tatum was coming off the injury.
07:50I'm watching the Knicks right now.
07:52They got Philly last night without Embiid, and Philly hung in there, threw some counter
07:56punches, but still no Joel Embiid, and now they're down 2-0, and nobody really thinks
08:01Philadelphia is going to be able to win that series.
08:03I'm hopeful that at some point in the show, at 9 o'clock, we're talking to Spencer Davey,
08:08we start getting a little bit more optimism about this game, too, this evening, because
08:13it's a massive game.
08:14Like, if you win this one, and it comes back to Cleveland tied at 1-1, we know the Cavs
08:18play better basketball at home.
08:19You would have, then, an opportunity to go up 3-1 against the number one seed in the
08:23East.
08:24Like, if they win tonight, I think we're feeling a lot better about the current state of affairs,
08:29but it's difficult to not be a little bit nervous going into tonight because of the product
08:34of basketball that they played last night.
08:36They are getting down in these games.
08:39Now, okay, do you want to give them credit for getting back in these games?
08:42But then it's like, well, where was that at the start of games?
08:44And I also want to, you know, recognize the playoffs.
08:46You're going to have runs.
08:47You're not just going to come out who, outside of Oklahoma City, is just coming out dominating.
08:53Just dominating from the tip.
08:55I mean, who's really doing that?
08:57So, I do expect, and I've gone over the numbers yesterday with Matt Derry about how
09:01scoring's down almost nine full points from the regular season.
09:05It's the biggest drop-off since 1971.
09:07The efficiency numbers, the contested shot numbers.
09:11It's showing that you're not getting guys on any of these teams that are just consistently
09:17great game in and game out, except maybe SGA.
09:20I said even Jokic had two or three bad games, and now Detroit was sent packing.
09:25So, Chris Fedor, we finally got Chris Fedor on the station as he was supposed to appear
09:30on Monday.
09:31But the...
09:31Pulled the car over.
09:32Yeah, the planes, trains, and automobiles to Detroit last minute.
09:35I mean, there was no way that we were going to be able to track down Chris Fedor on that
09:39sojourn from Cleveland to Detroit.
09:43Here, he appeared on Basket and Phelps and talked about how the Cavs have yet to really
09:49play a good basketball game.
09:50These Cavs have played eight playoff games, and they haven't been good.
09:54They just haven't looked like the team from the regular season.
09:57They haven't looked like a legitimate title contender.
09:59They haven't looked like a team that is capable of winning the Eastern Conference crown.
10:03So, it's hard for me to separate what I saw from Toronto and just focus solely on game
10:09one.
10:09But for game one, I do kind of understand where you're coming from.
10:13It was a tie game, five minutes to go in the game, then they were outscored 18-8.
10:18So, do you look at that and you say, well, despite all the things that they did poorly,
10:22they were right there?
10:23Or do you say, if you have James Harden, if you have Donovan Mitchell, if you have Evan Mobley,
10:28you're paying those guys to come through in those situations?
10:31And then you can also look at it and say, well, despite the fact that they committed
10:3520 turnovers that fueled Detroit getting 31 points of offense that kind of way, and
10:41Detroit's a limited offensive team, and there's no way that they're going to be able to replicate
10:45that production, despite those kinds of things, once again, the Cavs were right there.
10:50Or do you say, turnovers are a problem for this team because the styles that these teams that
10:56they're playing are bothering their offense?
10:58I would agree.
10:59That's Chris Fedor again on Baskin and Phelps.
11:01I would agree at the end there, without a doubt, that we knew when they would get James
11:06Harden, there would be more iso ball.
11:09What bothered me in that game was, aside from trying to figure out the lineups, I don't
11:14think Harden should ever be out there without one of the great big men behind him, whether
11:19it's Jared Allen or Evan Mobley, and I get it, Allen was in foul trouble, but the Thomas
11:24Bryant minutes with Harden, where it's like, do you come up and set a screen?
11:28Do you not?
11:30Let's throw it out to Harden with five on the shot clock.
11:32Hey, does somebody want to run out there and help him out?
11:34Because it's not Harden from 10 years ago.
11:37They could just zip by some of these guys.
11:40You might want to give them some help.
11:42Even 10 years ago, when he would do that, I was trying to find a clip.
11:45There's a really funny inside the NBA clip from years ago when Harden was on the Rockets
11:51and Charles Barkley called that brand of basketball bonehead basketball, and I felt like that's
11:56what we were playing in game one.
11:58Unwatchable.
12:00Unwatchable bonehead basketball, because he was just dribbling the air out of it late
12:05into the shot clock, and that was the end of it.
12:08It was some of the worst.
12:10The Harden from six years ago, eight years ago, was some of the worst stuff to watch.
12:15It made me want to poke out my eyes watching James Harden.
12:19And what I said when they got James Harden is, we're going to get an evolved version.
12:24One that you're not going to have to rely on.
12:26That's what I saw, by the way, in game seven that they won.
12:28He didn't have to take over.
12:30They had other guys step up, and you saw some role players stepping up in a big way.
12:35And then James could just kind of be off the ball a little bit more.
12:40He's a good catch and shoot.
12:41He's actually a really good catch and shoot.
12:43Maybe that's going to be part of the formula.
12:44But again, the Harden I saw in game one of this, upping the usage, having him dribble the ball.
12:50Does he feel like he has to?
12:51And which that is a conversation we are going to get into next segment, because if Donovan
12:56Mitchell can't be Donovan Mitchell, then what are you going to do with James Harden and
13:02everybody else?
13:02And unfortunately, the reality is Donovan Mitchell has not been Donovan Mitchell.
13:07So I have numbers to support it.
13:09So JB Bickerstaff following Donovan Mitchell's postgame comments after getting to the foul line only twice in an entire game.
13:17He's only averaging just a hair over two free throw attempts a game right now in the playoffs.
13:24I want him to flop once just to see how JB reacts, because you know he's going to be.
13:28Well, he's already up talking to the refs anyway.
13:30We're getting JB barking at the refs in his true form.
13:34It was three hours in the opening game while Kenny sat.
13:37Now, people got mad at me because they said, oh, you're making excuses.
13:41I'm just like, I've watched the NBA playoffs my entire life, and coaches are pretty strategic about when they're going
13:47to buy calls.
13:48And I'm pretty sure Kenny Atkinson just is not doing his job when it comes to in a very close
13:55game that was tied with four minutes left.
13:58I didn't see him buying a lot of calls out there.
14:00I think there is a rapport that you establish with the officials.
14:02Now, JB, I always thought, took it way too far and became the boy who cried wolf.
14:07But you saw the free throw discrepancy in the opening game.
14:11They get 19 more than us.
14:13I don't know.
14:14Did you hear the rationale from Kenny that he sits on the bench because he likes to strategize and be
14:20collaborative?
14:21It was a Brownsian answer, really.
14:23Well, that's good.
14:24With his assistants, and that's why he's seated more than he's standing.
14:27Okay, that would pass muster if I didn't have Dennis Schroeder kind of picking apart the things they didn't do.
14:36And, you know, in the open, Owen played it from Dennis Schroeder.
14:39He's like, yeah, we just need to get the right guys on Detroit and pick and roll.
14:43It's like, oh, wait, that's Kenny Atkinson.
14:46He's like, they don't have the same personnel as Toronto does, so it really shouldn't be that hard.
14:51Okay, Dennis, well, why were we down double digits in the first half against the Pistons then, if it shouldn't
14:57have been that hard?
14:58Well, I think he's basically kind of calling out the coaching in that regard.
15:02And look, it's not the end of the world.
15:03You just go out there and do the things you're supposed to do, and you win tonight on the road.
15:07You get home court advantage.
15:08The entire series shifts.
15:09And then the legacy shift.
15:11This is how quickly things can change the way the NBA playoffs work.
15:16But, you know, Donovan Mitchell, somebody who got to the free throw line in the Indiana series last year, 14
15:21times a game.
15:23Two of those games, 21 free throws.
15:26Yeah, Donovan needs to get to the line.
15:27That is a part of NBA basketball.
15:29Your superstars have to get to the line.
15:31Do they need to foul bait to do it?
15:33Typically, it's just you being aggressive results.
15:36In fact, I would argue, as much as I was annoyed that it seemed like every time we contested a
15:41shot inside, it was the automatic whistle.
15:43But you did notice that, be it Tobias Harris, he went at Max Struis.
15:50That was a BS call, but he went at him like three times and finally got to the free throw
15:54line.
15:55But I think you'd also see Cade Cunningham.
15:58His aggressiveness just resulted in, you know, arms dangling and going through each other, and it's two free throws.
16:05It's got to be a massive night tonight for Donovan, whichever way he wants to cut it.
16:10If he wants to foul bait more and gets to the line, do it.
16:12If you want to pull up from three and you feel like you've got that going, do it.
16:16But at the end of the day, I feel like Donovan Mitchell is the Cav with the most pressure on
16:21him this entire series.
16:22But certainly tonight, because we keep talking about going into these playoffs, that you've got to get out of the
16:28second round.
16:28You've got to get out of the second round.
16:30Like, if Donovan Mitchell falls down 0-2, the Detroit Pistons, the national media, and even locally, people are going
16:37to start writing the referendum on Donovan Mitchell.
16:40Hell yeah, they will.
16:41Not one of these superstars that could help you get out.
16:43So there's just a ton of Donovan Mitchell pressure in my mind on this game today.
16:48And he's got to be better.
16:49Like, I know there's data and you've got some numbers on how he's been, but he hasn't been what the
16:56Cavs have needed him to have been.
16:57And that's just like the eye test.
16:58You don't need any data to tell you that.
17:00All right, and the, you know, the accounting stats, they're down for Donovan.
17:05We know he came out first two games against Toronto, put a stamp on that, and it looked like, all
17:10right, we're going to get the Donovan Mitchell, the playoff riser, that I've grown accustomed to, a guy that's capable
17:15of dropping 50, 40 points.
17:17We've gone over the list of incredible games.
17:20But so far, if you go by something called total net points, it's six straight, dating back to the Toronto
17:28series, those first two road games.
17:29It is now six straight negative total net points.
17:35His usage in the second half was down to 25.
17:38Normally he gets up towards 30, 35.
17:40So he didn't even have the ball in his hands.
17:42Now, they were able to get back into the game, but we know over the course of the playoffs, Donovan
17:47Mitchell has got to be Donovan Mitchell.
17:49Because the whole thing revolves around that.
17:51It can't be the ball is in James Harden's hands the most.
17:55That's not why you brought in James Harden.
17:56Especially as the shot clock is bleeding.
17:58Like, that's what has been driving me crazy, too, is they're not getting into any semblance of an offensive set
18:05until the shot clock is, like, less than 10.
18:07So everything seems so rush and hurried, and then Harden will dribble the ball off of his foot.
18:13So, like, Donovan, I feel like, has to kind of be that guy this evening.
18:18Because, like, we've seen it before.
18:20Like, he almost single-handedly, a couple seasons ago, dismantled the Orlando Magic in that seven-game series.
18:26It took him seven games to do it.
18:28But he was awesome from an individual standpoint, I felt like, in those later games in that series.
18:33Like, that's what I feel like we need Donovan to do.
18:36And he just hasn't really asserted himself in these last six games at all.
18:41All right, 216-474-0092.
18:45Let's get to the phones.
18:46Big Al in Berea.
18:48Today, it's game two later tonight in Detroit.
18:51Go ahead, Big Al.
18:52Hey, good morning, fellas.
18:53Hey, I'm going to ride with what Owen was saying earlier about when they picked up Harden.
18:58Man, they went on, like, I don't know the exact numbers.
19:00It was, like, a 12-14 run.
19:02They were on fire.
19:03I was even thinking, man, they're going to tear it up in the playoffs.
19:06Well, I don't know, those two haven't really showed up like they should.
19:10Like, you have your two superstars on your team.
19:12They need to show up.
19:14I hope all their, you know, bad play is behind them because we need them.
19:18It's imperative.
19:19Well, thank you, Big Al.
19:20And the hard part is, based on what we've seen so far, does anybody believe that?
19:24Does anybody believe?
19:25Would you be shocked tonight if there's a tremendous drought in the first half and you're down 10 again?
19:31The spin zone that I'm trying to play in my own head, though,
19:35to make me feel better about tonight is that, like,
19:38everything that we've talked about on the show that's gone wrong,
19:40the turnovers, the lack of identity,
19:42even if you want to throw out there the lack of toughness label that people have put on this,
19:47everything that went wrong against the Pistons in Game 1,
19:50you are still somehow at the doorstep of winning that game.
19:54And maybe if you had three less turnovers than the 19 total that you had,
19:58and maybe if the Pistons had, you know, five less of the 31 points that they had off of those
20:04turnovers,
20:05you win that game and you're up 1-0 despite not playing great basketball.
20:10So the spin zone that I'm trying to play in my head is we don't even need tonight to be
20:15perfect.
20:16Like, we don't even need tonight to be this Donovan Mitchell turning everything back around
20:20and being the Donovan that we're used to.
20:22We don't even need James Harden to be a guy that's not turning the basketball over at all.
20:27Like, Donovan just has to be a little bit better.
20:29James Harden has to be a little less careless with the basketball.
20:33And you're probably winning Game 1.
20:36So that's how I'm trying to spin it to make myself feel better about it
20:41because I feel like you were so close to Game 1,
20:43you literally gifted it right back to the Pistons.
20:46And what stunk is one of the cases I made for Game 1 that was going to be different.
20:51Typically, when your team goes into a crazy competitive seven-game series,
20:57you've got a higher seed waiting for you that's been rested.
21:00That wasn't the case.
21:01Detroit had just been through a war of a series.
21:03And sure, they've got to stay home.
21:05But, you know, we're not talking about going from, you know, Cleveland to L.A.
21:09And they fly.
21:09Yeah, it's like a 30-minute.
21:12Yeah, it's up and down.
21:13Like, by the time you hit your max, what is it, height in the air?
21:17I've never been on a private jet, so I can't speak to how amazing an experience that would be.
21:25You better get it together, Nick.
21:27Once you hit your max elevation, you're descending 30 minutes into the flight.
21:32So, like, the travel shouldn't have been.
21:35I just don't get how they come out and look so flat.
21:41Are they just not that good?
21:42Is that what it is?
21:43Was everybody right and I was wrong?
21:45No, you can't concede now.
21:47Are they just not that good?
21:49I look at Charles Barkley was all over them, right, in the regular season.
21:53Like, oh, they're going to the finals.
21:55Like, he was saying Cavs in Oklahoma City.
21:58And then he saw what they did through four games and he was like, never mind.
22:03He apologized.
22:03They don't care.
22:04He said he got hoodwinked and bamboozled, right?
22:07Yeah, he pulled out the Stephen A.
22:08He apologized for picking the Cavs.
22:11It's the effort stuff, man.
22:13I don't know if they're good or bad yet.
22:15I do know that they don't seem to care.
22:18Or at least they give off the energy that they don't care right now.
22:22Until they have to, maybe?
22:24Like, is this going to be another seven-game series where it goes seven
22:28and they don't really care until the second half of game seven?
22:31Man, you've got – look, Donovan is kind of at the end of his athletic prime, right?
22:38You know, you're around the age of 30.
22:40You saw guys that play like him, like D. Wade, started to –
22:44I wouldn't say fall apart at 30, but you definitely saw was not as above the rim.
22:50By the way, when's the last big dunk you've seen Donovan Mitchell throw down?
22:54I'm not letting you do this, Lima.
22:55When's the last one?
22:56Because you were leading the positivity charge.
22:58I know.
22:59I'm not letting you concede.
23:00Not now.
23:01Not down 0-1 against the Pistons.
23:03Because I hear what you're saying,
23:05and I've got some of the same trepidations about the Cavs,
23:07but the Pistons aren't a good basketball team either, dude.
23:10So, like, I can't concede yet.
23:12That was part of my –
23:12I'm not conceding yet.
23:13That was part of my pitch.
23:15That's what I was saying to Nick Wilson throughout the whole thing.
23:17Is there a good basketball team in the East?
23:19Right.
23:19Well, now the Knicks.
23:20The Knicks.
23:21Everybody is saying the Knicks, even though universally people are like –
23:24But are they good just because they're beating another bad team?
23:27I'm not letting you – we can't do it, man.
23:30Because if they win tonight, the momentum, the positivity,
23:33you're going to be at game three.
23:35I'll be back.
23:36It's a three o'clock start, which is a little strange
23:38and I don't really like.
23:39But everybody will be back.
23:41So, we can't concede yet.
23:43So, we'll be right back.
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