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00:00Justin Termini joins us right now. He does a little show.
00:03It's the NBA Today on SiriusXM NBA Radio.
00:05Justin Termini is one of the hosts. It's him and Eddie Johnson.
00:08I like Eddie Moore, but Justin's the one who makes himself available.
00:11Hi!
00:13How you doing? Also, I want you promoting my YouTube page.
00:17Termini crashes out where I don't have to deal with Eddie Johnson.
00:21So go to YouTube, search Termini crashes out, and you get a solo version of JT.
00:26I subscribe to you. I haven't seen one recently, though.
00:29Where the hell has your videos been? Did you put one up?
00:32Well, Termini got one up there last night, yes.
00:35He was having difficulty when he was on the road at the finals
00:39and getting one up, because he had a lot of different stuff that was going on.
00:43Okay. Well, we'll make sure everybody... Termini crashes out on YouTube.
00:46Tone, take her away.
00:47Justin, you're not one of these that are trying to immediately,
00:50just because it was the most recent thing that happened,
00:53put this finals run ahead of LeBron and what he did
00:57with the Cavaliers in 2016.
00:59You're not doing that, are you?
01:01Well, I mean, listen, in regards to, like, a finals run,
01:05like, through the playoffs, I mean, certainly it's up there
01:07with some of the best that we've ever seen.
01:09They outscored their opponents by 283 points,
01:12and they were 16-3, which is the seventh best record ever.
01:16But where I, you know, so I don't know about putting it up there
01:19with what happened in 2016.
01:21I think you'd make the argument this is a better team, this Knicks team.
01:25But I will say it's not an all-time great team.
01:28You can't win 53 games during the regular season, which the Knicks did,
01:32and be the third seed and be considered one of the great teams of all time.
01:37I mean, how do we explain what we just witnessed, Justin?
01:40Because Knicks fans, a year ago when they lost to the Pacers,
01:44they said, well, we can't win a championship with this team,
01:47which is what Cavs fans are saying right now.
01:49And then at no point this year did they ever look special.
01:53Yeah, they had good moments, but they were down two games to one
01:57against the Hawks, and again, people were saying can't win
01:59with Carl Anthony Towns, can't win with Brunson and Towns
02:04defensively out there.
02:05And then they proceeded to go on one of the magical runs
02:07we've ever seen.
02:09Yeah, I mean, honestly, and everybody that we talked to about
02:12at the finals said they weren't the same team after game three
02:15against Atlanta, and they changed their philosophy,
02:18and it's a philosophy, I mean, that you guys know well,
02:20because James Harden dribbled, dribbled, dribbled, dribbled, right?
02:23And it's that heliocentric offense.
02:26You got it with him.
02:26You got it with Muka.
02:28And you had it with Jalen Brunson.
02:29And again, we saw it at times again in the finals
02:31where they reverted to that, certainly in game five,
02:34where they closed it out, and Brunson had 45 of the 94 points.
02:38But for the most part, like, tail end of the Atlanta series,
02:41Philadelphia against you guys when they played the Cavaliers,
02:44I mean, they were moving the ball like they were the 70 Knicks
02:47or the 70 Blazers or the 86 Celtics.
02:49I mean, they were one of the better passing teams out there.
02:52And I think it is truly an example of one of the few examples of the,
02:56you know, the sum is greater than the sum of the par,
02:59whatever the hell that saying is,
03:00because I just think that the chemistry, these guys playing in college,
03:04it's filled with a bunch of good guys who sacrificed.
03:07You know, I think it had to do with, you know,
03:09them liking each other and truly playing as one.
03:12So it's one of those rare teams like that.
03:15I mean, to me, one of the more likable teams in NBA history.
03:18I've seen a team like the Knicks,
03:20with all the experience in the postseason,
03:22go out and beat San Antonio.
03:24I've seen eight different champions in eight years.
03:28So those are things that I think should go for the Cavs.
03:31But I don't know if I mean that.
03:33I don't know if I feel it.
03:34What do you think the Cavs' chances are?
03:36Are they closer? Are they further away?
03:38How far away are they?
03:40I mean, I think they're stuck in that little weird spot
03:43where you, like, keep hitting.
03:44And I'm not saying they're as good as, like, say, the 90s Blazers
03:47or the early 2000, you know, Sacramento Kings,
03:52which kept banging on the door and they just couldn't get through.
03:55I think those teams are actually a lot better than Cleveland is right now.
03:57Heck, you dealt with that with Cleveland, right,
03:59with the Mark Price, Brad Daugherty, Larry Nancy.
04:01They were, like, really good teams.
04:03They just couldn't get over the hump.
04:04And I think you're kind of stuck in that weird spot again.
04:07And, you know, the Giannis thing is going to tell you a lot here
04:10in the next couple of days as well, wherever he ends up,
04:13because, you know, he could go to Boston, where I'm located.
04:16And if he goes there, that's a massive upgrade for them.
04:19He goes down to Miami.
04:20I don't know if that makes Miami a contender yet,
04:22because the roster would be devoid of any talent around him
04:25and maybe damn out of bio.
04:27But I would say that Cleveland's still a good distance away,
04:30because the other thing is, okay, even if they are to get to the finals next year
04:34and say it's against San Antonio, well, San Antonio now is going to be
04:38a much better team because they went through this process
04:40of needing to take their a month.
04:42So I don't think San Antonio is going to be this bad again.
04:45Like, New York got them at the perfect time,
04:47because I actually do think San Antonio's more talented than the Knicks.
04:50I think the reason that they lost is just because they hadn't been hardened
04:53by the postseason, much like, you know, the heat there in 2011,
04:58where Dallas got them for that reason,
05:00even though Miami was more talented.
05:01Should you go to 2022 with the Warriors and the Celtics?
05:05I think the Celtics were the more talented team,
05:07but Golden State beat them because they had been hardened by the experience,
05:10and I think that's the same reason why San Antonio lost this finals.
05:14They just didn't have the veterans of the experience like New York.
05:17That's not going to be a problem next year.
05:19Are you surprised at some of the reaction to Wemby in the finals?
05:2522 years old.
05:27I thought was incredible in this playoff run.
05:30And even the choke games in the fourth quarter,
05:33like, he was the reason they were in any of these games to begin with.
05:37And yet, you know, your buddy Bill Simmons says he was disappointed
05:40by Wemby in the finals.
05:41And I'm like, man, I thought Wemby was spectacular.
05:44He just, he's just a little young.
05:47Yeah, I mean, so I think it's like,
05:49you got to look at it through two different lenses.
05:52For a 22-year-old, I don't think it's disappointing at all.
05:56And, you know, he's going to grow.
05:57It's one of the great 22-year-old seasons that we've ever seen.
06:00And you can see how he's going to be an all-time great.
06:03Now, if you want to say, like, through the lens of,
06:05oh, he's the best player in the sport, which a lot of people want to say,
06:08well, hold up a second, because if you're the best player in the sport,
06:11you need a go-to move offensively.
06:13He doesn't have a go-to move offensively.
06:15Now, I think he will add one, but it's difficult to say when you have,
06:19you know, you don't have a go-to move that you're the best player in the sport.
06:22And the other issue I have is, all right, like, say Jokic, for example,
06:26doesn't really defend at all.
06:27At least he's on the freaking court for 44 minutes, 45 minutes.
06:31You can't be the best player in the sport if you have to sit out with five minutes left
06:35and Luke Cornett in a two-point game is playing because you don't have the conditioning.
06:40So he's got to get an offensive move.
06:42He's got to get the conditioning.
06:43I will say that.
06:45And then in regards to, like, big picture with people criticizing him,
06:48again, LeBron wasn't criticized until, what, 2010, where people accused him of,
06:53you know, 2009, because they lost as the favorite to Orlando.
06:59Then 2010, he's accused of quitting against the Celtics in, what,
07:03game five before he then went down to Miami.
07:05But he was, like, 25, 26 before he first got criticized.
07:08You don't criticize a 22-year-old, right?
07:11So I think you've got to give him a little bit of a break there.
07:13But, again, you look back at this finals, you're going to think when Benyama,
07:17you're going to think the pass off the back,
07:19you're going to think of a couple of clutch missed free throws,
07:21you're going to think of blowing a 29-point lead.
07:24That's all on the resume.
07:25The game-winning shot he missed in game two.
07:27So, like, there were some plays that he was involved in that you're going to look back on.
07:33You know, you could overcome it.
07:35LeBron overcame eight points in 2011.
07:37Magic Johnson overcame Tragic Johnson.
07:39But it still wasn't the best thing to stick on the resume, some of the individual plays.
07:46I'll tell you this, Justin.
07:47I'm going to get back to the Cavs here in a second.
07:48But what I like so much about him is that I actually think that we finally found a guy
07:54who can carry that torch from LeBron.
07:57Like, I think we tried to force it with Jha, Zion, really Zion, Luka, Jokic, a couple other guys.
08:03This guy's a villain to some people already.
08:06We've seen real dominance there.
08:08I think that he could be the next, like, iconic generational guy that everybody measures up against.
08:15I like him because of that.
08:17Yeah.
08:18I mean, listen, he's got the talent, obviously, and he's also got the personality.
08:23Whether you like the personality or you don't, you care.
08:26Like, he upsets people.
08:28He evokes emotion.
08:29So, that's really all that matters, whether you like the guy or you don't.
08:33I mean, 50% of the population, including myself, can't, you know, can't stand LeBron.
08:37Hasn't prevented him from being the face of the league for the last 20 years.
08:41So, Wembenyama will kind of be the same way.
08:44And I like it because he's different from LeBron.
08:46And I said this on the show yesterday.
08:48LeBron, you know, when he came into the league, it was like, you were more likely to see him make
08:53it out with Chris Paul and Dwayne Wade at midcourt than you were a fight.
08:57And Wembenyama, it seems the opposite, where, you know, he's not shaking people.
09:01Like, what do you want?
09:01People criticize LeBron because he's too friendly with his opponents and he's teaming up with them.
09:06And now they're criticizing Wembenyama because he doesn't want to shake their hands.
09:09So, you know, I like the fact that he's got a little bit of a different personality.
09:13You get used to people being friends for 20 years and a guy comes in there and he's such a
09:17Richard about things.
09:19I think it does jar people.
09:21But, again, I like that part of it.
09:22I really do.
09:23All right, I got to ask you about James Harden.
09:25And I put this out there because I wanted to know if it was just a straw man.
09:29We had a person on the station kind of go after the James Harden trade.
09:33And I went, I don't know if that's radio straw man guy or that's real.
09:37And I had a lot of people who are Cavs fans.
09:41They believe that the James Harden trade is already a failure.
09:44Do you believe it's a failure?
09:47Yeah, I mean, listen, I like you do.
09:49You believe it's a failure?
09:50No, no.
09:51No, I said I liked it at the time, right, going after, you know, just because I think he's got
09:56a higher ceiling than Darius Garland.
09:58Garland's got all these toe issues.
10:00Who the heck knows if that's going to be rectified?
10:02And he's also more available than Darius Garland.
10:05And will be cheaper this year, too.
10:08Yeah.
10:08Now, so I didn't mind the trade at the time, but, I mean, up to now, it's a failure.
10:12He was horrific in the postseason.
10:15That's not true.
10:16He was not.
10:16That's not true.
10:17He was not.
10:19There are no numbers that support what you just said.
10:22You just pulled something out of thin air because you listened to your pod bros, Ryan Russillo, Bill Simmons.
10:27Come up with a thought on your own, Justin Termini.
10:29My goodness.
10:31Absolutely.
10:32So, first of all, oh, I got to say, Anthony Alive has got to look at the spreadsheet.
10:37Oh, the numbers.
10:38The numbers indicate.
10:39I actually watched the games.
10:41I don't need to look at the numbers.
10:43And, oh, by the way.
10:44Kenny Atkinson also said they'd be sitting at home if they had Darius Garland in the first round.
10:49Does that, well, does, and he also said that they won two of the three games.
10:52I thought they did, too.
10:53I thought it was good.
10:54Just like you.
10:56So, you know, Kenny and you.
10:58And sorry, Kenny, I got to take a shot at you in order to take a shot at Anthony.
11:01But he's going at me with the numbers.
11:03What do the numbers say about his defensive performance down the stretch of game one when you're up by 20
11:08points and you blow that and he's standing there.
11:10So, you blamed Harden when, by the way, Brunson hit seven insane shots, which he did against the Spurs, too.
11:17That makes Harden some terrible guy.
11:18I guess it means the Spurs are a terrible defensive team, too.
11:21Now, maybe just give Brunson some credit, hitting some great shots.
11:24And I don't know.
11:25Kenny Atkinson could have helped.
11:26No, exactly.
11:27Kenny could have called the timeout.
11:29I think, as he's said that he has admitted to, they could have moved him off.
11:33And, again, I described Harden at the time.
11:35Like, listen, at least, you know, Brunson had to work against the score on Wembenyama and Steph Castle.
11:41He didn't have to work on James Harden.
11:43He had, like, three fadeaway bank shots going to the baseline.
11:47Those weren't some easy opportunities.
11:50Come on.
11:51Your hatred of James Harden is now contaminating all your opinions.
11:55I said I liked the trade at the time, okay?
11:59But now you have to give him an extension because you already promised him one, basically, when you made the
12:04move.
12:04Is it going to get better for James Harden?
12:06Is he going to improve moving forward?
12:08I would say that at this stage of his career, he's only going to regress.
12:12And it wasn't good this past season.
12:14So tell me how that's good.
12:15You didn't like him saving the season with his 30-point virtuoso performance in Game 5 against Detroit?
12:22You didn't like that?
12:23He does that every year.
12:25He did it in Philadelphia where he gave you a fantastic performance.
12:27Seems like a good player, then.
12:28I think without Embiid in Game 1 and Game 3.
12:31And then he completely crapped the bed in Game 6 and Game 7 where he didn't show up just as
12:35he did against Denver where he was great in Game 6.
12:37And then he didn't show up in Game 7.
12:39So, again, what did it get you this past year?
12:42You think it's going to be better?
12:43Now, if your goal is just to be like a conference finals team or a second-round team and a
12:48really good regular season team, fine.
12:50Be happy with that.
12:50You asked me if I thought they were a contender, and I'm telling you with James Harden as one of
12:56their two best players, they're not a contender.
12:58And, by the way, they ran the offense to him like he was their best player.
13:03Which they should know.
13:03Instead of going through Donovan Mitchell.
13:05That's the mistake.
13:10That's the mistake.
13:17If you watch those games, unfortunately, there were a lot of those grenades thrown to James Harden late in the
13:24shot clock from a Donovan Mitchell who seemed to be as he is every year.
13:28Gassed the later his teams get into the postseason and they finally got past the second round.
13:34And Donovan still had, you know, great moments.
13:36But, you know, we're kind of saying the same thing about him.
13:40We say about a lot of guys in this league, like, can you win if he's your best player?
13:44So you don't like the Donovan.
13:46So what you're telling me now is you don't like the Donovan Mitchell trade.
13:49No, I love the Donovan Mitchell trade.
13:52I also thought that Evan Mobley would take the requisite steps forward by this time in year four that would
14:01take some of the, you know, workload off other guys.
14:04And, unfortunately, he's still not really able to score one-on-one, and that's a problem.
14:09So whose fault is that?
14:10Is that Evan Mobley's?
14:11Is it the organization's?
14:12Because that's why they got rid of J.B. Bickerstaff, right?
14:14And one of the main reasons is we don't like the development of Evan Mobley.
14:19So, you know, like we talked to Kenny last offseason out at Las Vegas, and I'm interested if he has
14:26the same thing to say this offseason,
14:27if he still thinks he can be a top-five MVP candidate.
14:30Because when we talked to him in Vegas about a year ago, a little less than a year ago,
14:34he said that the next two or three years, Evan Mobley should turn into a top-five MVP candidate.
14:39He wasn't even the third-best player on the team.
14:42Or he was the third-best.
14:44He wasn't even the top-two player on the team.
14:48Don't look at me.
14:49I'm just enjoying what I was listening to.
14:51I love it when Lima has Termini on the ropes.
14:54Can I ask you why you two are the ones getting paid?
14:57I'm doing this for free, and I'm the one talking.
14:59You guys are sitting there in silence?
15:01Well, it's an interview.
15:02I was sitting here in silence.
15:03Lima was owning you in the argument.
15:05Termini, where does LeBron go?
15:06What does he do?
15:07We got 30 seconds.
15:08Where does LeBron go?
15:09Well, I mean, I wish he would go to a retirement home,
15:12but I'm going to anticipate that he wants to go back to the Lakers.
15:16If he liked Cleveland, he would have stayed there.
15:18He doesn't like living there, so I'm going to assume that he stays in LA.
15:21Don't take pot shots at Cleveland just because Lima beat you.
15:24I love Cleveland.
15:25I just don't think LeBron likes it.
15:27Sounds like a backhanded compliment.
15:28LeBron still owns a very large home in this region and businesses.
15:32The only issue I have with Cleveland is why—
15:34He draws a lot of water in this town.
15:36You don't draw nothing.
15:37Yeah, the only issue I have with Cleveland is sub-inferior sports talk radio.
15:41I mean, there's really no good place to tune in for it.
15:45What are you trying to say?
15:47I'm trying to take a shot at your ability to host a show.
15:49Why are you taking a shot at me?
15:50I'm not the one getting owned here on Cleveland radio in an interview.
15:54Oh, my God.
15:55I got owned on Cleveland radio with four people listening.
15:59What am I going to do?
15:59Well, it should make you feel even worse.
16:02It'll let me beat the brakes off you.
16:05I don't believe it.
16:07Go back and listen.
16:08It wasn't as—if I do go back and listen, I'll be the only one listening.
16:13Justin, look, we wish we had a bigger audience at times.
16:16I'm sure when they took you off NBA TV, you thought you'd have a bigger audience.
16:19I mean, you know—
16:20Come on, now we're getting—
16:21It sucks, but what are you going to do?
16:23Hey, hey, hey.
16:24No, listen, it's—yeah, it was really disappointing.
16:26I think the time we brought you on as an interview was one of the reasons.
16:29They said we can't be having this inferior product on the station.
16:32It's just—it's gotten too personal now.
16:34It really has.
16:35I'm uncomfortable and don't like it.
16:37I thought this was going to be fun, Justin.
16:37I thought this was going to be a nice thing, Justin.
16:41Well, I mean, you're the ones that, you know, tried to—
16:44Lee, you did a better effort than the Cavaliers against the Knicks.
16:47At least this was a competitive back and forth.
16:51Neither one of us just laid over and died.
16:55Justin Termini.
16:56Find him on Twitter, at TerminiRadio.
16:58He is the host of Termini Crashes Out on YouTube.
17:01He wanted me to promote that because you said it.
17:05And then, obviously, he's on NBA Today on SiriusXM NBA Radio.
17:09Justin, thank you so much for the time.
17:10All the best to you and yours.
17:11Please pet your dog for me.
17:13Ah, she's right here listening.
17:15What a good dog.
17:15And we're about to go outside and play.
17:17Right, Juju?
17:19Man.
17:20You know, just when I thought he was the biggest bastard ever.
17:22Like, he still has that dog.
17:23Boy, that dog's nice.
17:24I'm hanging up on him.
17:25Justin Termini.
17:26Host of NBA Today on SiriusXM NBA Radio.
17:28He's on the Wise Heart Right.
17:29We make it right.
17:30Call Kyle.
17:30Right hotline.
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