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00:00As we get you ready, Cavs last day off before hitting the practice court tomorrow as they get
00:05ready for Toronto. It's been interesting. You know, we got into the pressure conversation with
00:10with Donovan yesterday, and that conversation only continues to grow. Here's former Cavalier
00:15Kendrick Perkins on first take talking about who has the most pressure on them in the NBA playoffs.
00:21Donovan Mitchell has never led his team to a conference finals. And one could argue that
00:29the Cleveland Cavaliers has done more for Donovan Mitchell than they've done for LeBron James.
00:35They have done everything and more, not only to please him, but make sure that they surround him
00:41with the talent so that he could be successful. But when you talk about a talent that has the
00:46most to prove and under the most pressure, it's Donovan Mitchell. All right. Who decides the music
00:52on that? I don't know. That one actually slapped. We played something yesterday coming back from the
00:58four letter network where it just didn't vibe with what we were playing. And Matt kept playing.
01:03There's not a shot taken. Matt kept playing the, our rejoined bed under it. And I thought I was
01:07going to have a stroke. That one was kind of a vibe, but does like Perkins have his own. Does
01:11he have
01:11his own music that just exists for him? And then like Stephen A's got his own as well. And then
01:15like
01:15whoever's running the show has to be like, all right, Stephen A's about to speak, run that one.
01:19Or Perkins speak, run the one that seems like elevator music, but also kind of is like close
01:23to smooth jazz. That sounds, that sounds like a lot of thought being put into something that I
01:28guarantee you. It's just like, Hey, we, we put 50 pieces of sound in there. Roll with a 42.
01:34That sounds like some great NBA 2k menu music. Basically. Don't hate that either. But like the
01:38good stuff from like, like 15 years ago, not whatever trash they play now. I think it's interesting.
01:43Like the, I don't know that it'll come to be this. It does feel like for a lot of people
01:48in the NBA,
01:49a lot of NBA analysts going into the playoffs, they're setting this up as like a now or never
01:54moment for Donovan Mitchell. Yeah. Which I've never really approached this year as that we've
01:57had the conversations leading up to this, what this means for Donovan. And obviously there's
02:00an exit plan that could be executed. I just have never looked at this season as this is the last
02:05year with Donovan Mitchell in a Cavs uniform. Well, I think it's, I, so I, so that's one way to
02:09take it.
02:10I also think it's like now or never, if you can't get to these Eastern conference
02:13finals, maybe, maybe your, your, your points deducted and how you're looked at around the
02:19NBA. Well, and he will be, I mean, there's no denying that when you have Harden and Mobley
02:23now, uh, the cache that comes with that and having those types of players is like, you
02:26have to, at some point you have to get over that hump, like the second round and not being
02:30able to exit out of that in eight years in his NBA career is shining pretty bright right
02:34now. I just think when you're 29, you're a six foot two, 210 pound combo guard, and you've
02:41been the best player on every team you've been on for eight of the last nine years in the NBA.
02:48Yeah. Like at some point you got to have some sort of something that constitutes a breakthrough.
02:54Like when it came to Cleveland, the knock on, he's not good in the playoffs. Donovan, if you just
02:58watch his performances, I think between Cleveland and Utah together, I think he's knocked that down.
03:04So the only frontier left is okay. Like, can you, can you win that extra playoff series? And it's
03:11just so funny to me that, you know, you could go to game seven against Boston in a second round
03:16matchup and it wouldn't be looking, looked at the same as if you got like gentlemanly swept and
03:21somehow ended up again against Boston, like the Eastern conference finals, the idea that like one
03:26extra win means that much to Donovan's career. It does harken to something I don't love about the NBA,
03:32which is just the heightened era of ring culture and what it's done to discourse in the NBA.
03:37What was it? The convo we were having before we got on the air was, uh, if you have four
03:41or five
03:41divorces in life, chances are, uh, that you're, you're probably the problem, right? If you have
03:45four or five, at some point, you got to look yourself in the mirror. I appreciate you getting
03:49right back up on that horse, but at some point it's probably you. And I think that's kind of where
03:53Donovan's at. Like he's been through enough iterations. He's been with enough teams. If he's not able to
03:57get past it instead of us making excuses for him and being like, Oh, but he had a 50 point,
04:02you know, performance in game seven against the nuggets. We're going to look at it and say,
04:06all right, maybe there's something that's a problem with you and how you do this.
04:09Oh, see, it's funny. Cause I don't think calves fans are going to feel that way.
04:13No, I mean, I'm maybe I'm speaking more than national narrative, uh, because calves fans are
04:17going to love Donovan. Cause we're not in, we're not in basketball hell. And we can point to Donovan
04:21is the reason why, but I also think it's so even nationally that just, cause I agree with you,
04:27by the way, that he was going to take more of a national hit than a local hit. And that's
04:30something
04:30we talked about a little bit yesterday, but I even think like, I think the benefit of getting
04:34bounced around in the bounced out in the second round of the playoffs is by the time the NBA finals
04:40are over, no one's talking about what happened two rounds ago. You might still be talking about a
04:46narrative that was fresh in the conference finals, but one of the benefits of, of getting
04:50bounced out consistently in the second round of the playoffs is that the, the, the storylines
04:55have just changed. You've just kind of been forgotten and kind of preserved in second round
05:01conversations, which means you really haven't been helped. Like, like, I guess my thing is
05:04like, like with the now or never thing, what's the fallout? Like people be like, well, he's
05:10only 11th best player next year. Cause I agree. It does feel like this is an important moment,
05:14but I'm just trying to figure out like, if it's, if it's never, if it's now or never, and it's
05:19never, instead of now. Okay. What's like the, cause I do think the calves thing is
05:24interesting. I do. I think that's like, okay. Donovan looking himself in the mirror and
05:28saying, all right, I'm not the guy. I'm not, I'm not the Batman. I thought I was, uh,
05:32and then making an adjustment from there. Well, I know, but like, these are how many,
05:36how many years in a row can you go to this and not get past a certain point? Uh, so
05:40like
05:40I, yeah, I wonder if that's part of it. I also wonder, I don't think, again, I don't think
05:44this is the end for Donovan in a calves uniform. I really don't. I think the calves will ride
05:48with Donovan until the wheels fall off. It feels like, so I just, I'm not, I'm not putting
05:52much stock into like what Bill Simmons said yesterday, where Donovan would search for
05:55another team. I just, I just don't put much stock into that. It does feel like it's now
05:59or never for Donovan. And I think that's what makes, honestly, it's, what's exciting about
06:04this. Like everyone's talking about not everyone, but I know we've talked about LeBron. I know
06:08we've talked about James Harden. We've talked about Evan Mobley as a potential fall
06:12guy where, where Donovan would be mentally and the difference between getting the Eastern
06:18conference finals or the NBA finals and where Donovan would be mentally. If again, you, you
06:23topped out in the second round to like a okay-ish Detroit team. Okay-ish in terms of like, I
06:29don't
06:29think they're one of the four best teams in the NBA. I just, the word I hate, I hate this
06:34because
06:34it's going to sound like I'm emotionally detached. I'm not, but fascinating. Like it is, it's, it's,
06:40and it's, it makes me a little nervous. It's the high stakes part of the NBA that I love so
06:44much
06:44though. It's like they, they do, they put so much weight into what happens in these series.
06:48Hell, like Knicks fans over the past 48 hours have been losing their minds about like, do we,
06:52do we have to fire Mike Brown if we don't make it to the Eastern conference finals? Like we just
06:55fired a coach last year. Do we do it again? Like this is the stakes are what makes this all
06:59so fun.
07:00And so I, I feel like with Donovan, I feel like you have to show you show to everyone that
07:05what
07:06they built and what they made with this trade is at least trending towards something positive.
07:10And like, you can always use the excuse that it was a short amount of time, but if you make
07:14it to
07:14the Eastern conference finals, you have shown that with another summer and then add some pieces,
07:18make some moves. Like you're right there. You're right in the max. So I do think Ford momentum is
07:23huge. Just to, just to, just to stop you from doing drastic things, right? Like I don't consider,
07:29Hey, LeBron wants to come home. I don't consider that drastic. That just feels like good
07:33opportunity. Yeah. Um, even trading for, for Giannis price dependent doesn't really feel drastic to
07:40me. If you think like, Hey, we were knocking on the door last year. We just need one more player
07:45or we need whatever gap is between Evan and Giannis. But I want those decisions to be made. Like I
07:53felt
07:53like you were backed into a corner with a Darius trade. And I don't mean that, uh, to relitigate
07:58that. Cause I know we, it always ends in a Donnybrook. Anytime we talk about the James Harden trade
08:03on any show on this station or any spot in this town, but like, I felt uncomfortable when it was
08:09like James Harden or death. I don't want to be in that position this off season. Like whatever moves
08:15you have to make, I want you to have enough success that if it's not the ultimate success,
08:20you can say, all right, we don't, we don't, we want to make this move. We, we see upward mobility
08:26with this move, but we don't feel like we have to make this move. Does that make sense?
08:30For sure. And that's, that's kind of what I'm getting at. I want to remove the desperation
08:33from this. Yeah. That's kind of what, like, if you, if you make it to the Eastern conference
08:36finals and it's just you and the Celtics, I think, I think they can look back and if they
08:40do nothing this summer, but just run it back with the same crew, you can say, well, just,
08:44geez, just think about how much better we'd be if we had more than 82 minutes played together.
08:48And I think that's going to be a selling point for them, a big selling point for them.
08:51Now, as it pertains to the Raptor series, I do think it's really interesting that style
08:57points have already been brought up. Yeah. I just don't know. I don't know how anyone thinks
09:00style points matter with this. Like we just did this last year with the heat series.
09:03Yeah. Well, so I guess, I guess this year's a little different from this standpoint. I
09:08do think you needed style points last year. The problem is that he got hurt and then everything
09:14fell completely on its face this year. I just, I just, I just need you to prove it's not the
09:20Cavs versus the Cavs. Meaning I need like, if you were, if we had a bunch of competitive
09:24games, cause the Cavs are figuring themselves out. That's one thing. If it feels like the
09:29Cavs are playing with their food or that the Cavs maybe can't get those vibes rolling
09:34in the right direction, is that going to be a conversation? Yes. But do I need it? No,
09:39you just need to advance. You need to advance. I know obviously don't make me sweat about
09:43it. You know, like I, cause that sounds like style points. I don't, it's not style points
09:46that goes the other direction. Style points don't matter. Talking about like the exclamation
09:50point of just absolutely deep pantsing Toronto and not looking back. That's the other side of
09:55this is, don't make me sweat it out. That's not going to be comfortable for me because
09:58I, I really cannot, I cannot preach how little I think of this Toronto Raptors team at this
10:02point. They're probably not going to have quickly. He's going to be out with that injury
10:05that Toronto announced earlier today. That happened quickly. Yes, it did. I'll miss, maybe
10:09it comes back if like a game six or game seven happens. But I, did you know, did you know
10:13Toronto? They have five wins this year against top 10 teams. As far as the standings
10:19was concerned, three of those wins are against the Cavs. Obviously they haven't played the
10:21Cavs since October. So they have like two wins against what are considered top 10 teams
10:25in the NBA since October. Like that's not like, they're not, they're not a good basketball
10:30team. They just got a lot of wins beating up on really bad teams. Yeah, but they do.
10:33And so, okay. The two things, and I, this, I'm not trying to sell Toronto is a justifiable
10:39first round matchup, but two things that I like out of this matchup that are going to force
10:44you to figure things out are one, their ability to get out in transition, which has been a
10:48bugaboo for the Cavs. And two, I do think, which by the way, can also, if you're missing
10:53shots, can neutralize some of the Cavs shot making. If you're just not making the damn
10:57shots, that was confusing. What I mean is if you're not making your shots and they're out
11:02in transition, that could pull this thing closer than it needs be. But two, just their
11:06length on the wing. I think that's an interesting thing. We talked about at different points like,
11:11all right, Keon Ellis, who's going to be your perimeter stopper? It's not going to be
11:14James Harden. It's probably not going to be Donovan. I like those kind of challenges for
11:20the Cavs defense. And I like that. It's just enough of a challenge that I can think like,
11:24you can't sleep on this. And it's not enough of a challenge that even if it goes six, am
11:29I really going to look back and go, big deal? Yeah. I'm not, I'm just not going to sweat
11:33on it. Like the, the one thing that I would be scared of in a series, in a first round
11:38series
11:38for the Cavs is a team that could launch the three ball. And you just, because a perimeter
11:42defense has been a problem with this Cavs team. And if we watch them just go in there
11:46and just check up a bunch of threes, and then you look up and it's like, whoa, we're in
11:48a game six, we're in a game seven, but that's not what the Raptors do at all. They, there
11:52are just, they're as bad of a three point shooting team as Detroit is. That's why I call them
11:55like mini Detroit. They, they basically, they're the same, they're the same copy paste as Detroit,
12:00just a lesser version of that, which makes it so interesting that the first two rounds
12:04would be just that. So are you expecting an easy first round? Yeah, for the most part I
12:08am. Uh, I was shocked actually that ESPN today, now they had 12 panelists and 12, all 12 said
12:14the Cavs would advanced. I was shocked. Two of them had, including Vincent Goodwill, who
12:18I respect greatly. Uh, two of them had the Cavs winning this in seven games. I was shocked
12:22by that. I think it's five. I think it's six. If they're going to try to make me sweat it
12:26out a little bit, but I'm, I'm just, I'm very unbothered by this series.
12:29But where's that coming from? Is that Toronto's not very good?
12:32Well, no, no, no, no, not for you. I mean, when people are picking this thing to go, you
12:36know, a deeper series, is it about, are we just playing on the, well, four or five seed
12:41matchups can, can be a bit of a coin toss? I don't know. I wish I could, I wish we
12:45could
12:45have like, do we need Vincent Goodwill on or something like that? I have no idea where
12:49he got Cavs in seven out of this. I really don't. I'm Nicholas Badwill after hearing
12:52that take. Is that right? Was he just trying to shake it up a little bit? Is that the idea?
12:56I really, I really don't know where he got Cavs in seven because I just don't see it with
13:00this. Yeah. Like I, if you doubt the Cavs, that's fine. There's no reason to have an immense
13:05amount of faith in Toronto, right? They've given you no reason to kind of lucked into
13:11the fifth seed. And, and I just, it's just like, I get the matchup stuff. I do. It's
13:17interesting though. I don't love the style points thing. I just continue to circle back
13:23to, and just, and like, I like Lima today said, if, uh, if you're complaining about style
13:29points on Monday, uh, you're not a ball knower. Oh, did he go back to the ball knowing thing?
13:34Yeah. Why is that show so hell bent on trying to make sure that you either are a ball knower
13:39or you don't know ball or then in like Ken's case, you like gate keeps football. Yeah. I
13:43don't know. So it's just a weird thing. I thought like sports was supposed to be an
13:46inclusive thing. Uh, I don't know. I was going to take a shot at them, but I don't feel like
13:52it today. Okay. That's good. Stick and move. I only like to take shots when I really feel
13:56it in my soul. Listen, I just, I just set you up for the shots. If you want to take
13:58them,
13:59you take them. If not, then that's fine. We can just stick and move. And I was like, you
14:01know what? I'm going to assist back to you. Is that right? If you want to take it, you
14:04can take it. No, I'm the lobby. I'm the volley guy. You spike at home. Um, but I do think
14:11there's a little bit of like, so does that mean we can't analyze what happens in this
14:15series? No, I mean, we definitely can analyze it. I just, I wouldn't carry much weight from
14:20one series to the next though. If like the goal is to now, again, you can do this in the
14:24same idea that like, uh, uh, you know, if, if the second round we're losing to Detroit,
14:29we'd be like, well, yeah, maybe the canary in the coal mine is what happened in game
14:33six against Toronto. Like that, like that world exists. I just wouldn't lose much sleep
14:38over what's going on in this series. So where I agree about style points and the
14:44fact that they shouldn't matter in the series is that I think the Cavs are still figuring
14:48it out, but I also don't know when do we go from, well, the Cavs are still figuring
14:53it out. So there probably should be some patience and grace given here, whether it's with style
14:58points or a series going down to the wire more than we thought it should versus like
15:04when, when do we flip the switch and say, well, now it doesn't really matter. You're
15:07in the NBA playoffs. You've played X amount of basketball together. Bleep or get off the
15:13pot. Yeah. I don't know. It's a weird, it's a weird thing to cross. Cause it's like, do
15:16we need to be the, the Al Davis just win baby line? Is that all we need to do? Or
15:19do we
15:20need those exclamation points last year? We, it felt like the fans needed a lot of
15:24exclamation points and we got them in that first round series against Miami, but I just
15:28go back to the idea that none of it mattered. Like, it's funny. I'm content if this series
15:31about just figuring it, continuing to figure out who you are so that you can be better
15:36for Detroit. And then there will be a smaller amount of that against Detroit, but like,
15:41I'll probably care more about style points against Detroit. Cause I just, I just think
15:45they're overrated. I think Toronto is not rated. Well, and a Detroit series gives you
15:50no chance. Like there's no, there's no, Hey, this seems like a fun five minute stretch
15:53to maybe just see if this works for a second here or there. Like at that point, you can't do
15:57that in a Detroit series. There's going to be little stretches where you can do this
16:00against the Raptors and get away with it.
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