00:00Is this a legacy-defining game for Donovan?
00:03Is that because you think it is a legacy-defining game?
00:05No, it's because it's the chatter right now.
00:07I hear a lot of people suggesting it's a legacy-defining game,
00:09and the thing I find interesting is,
00:11it seems like every other game is a legacy-defining game for Donovan.
00:15It feels like, how many times this postseason
00:18can we say it's a legacy-defining game for Donovan?
00:20Well, I guess if you think that the series revolves around what happens tonight,
00:25maybe this would classify as well.
00:27Do you think Game 4 was a legacy-defining game?
00:30I think Game 4, if they make it past this series,
00:33I think Game 4 is the game people are going to talk about
00:35until, I don't know, five years from now.
00:37You'll be like, remember that 39-point second half?
00:41The 43-burger.
00:43Yeah, it's going to be weird to talk about.
00:46You'll be like, oh, wow, 39-point second half.
00:48He wants him to dominate, start to finish.
00:49What did he finish with?
00:51A 43-burger.
00:52Yeah.
00:52Yeah, great.
00:53It was a good tasting burger.
00:54So he did nothing.
00:54You just don't eat the first half.
00:55He did nothing in the first half.
00:57Yeah, no, he sleepwalked in the first half.
00:58The first half of the burger was really, it was basically horse meat.
01:03But the second half, oh my God, it was not horse meat.
01:06It was a clinic.
01:07Yeah, yeah.
01:08And so I know in some respect, it has to be a legacy-defining game.
01:13But how many times can we say something is a legacy-defining game?
01:16So I think where we are in the playoffs, and again, it actually flows perfectly within what
01:22our conversation was about tonight, which is, you know, will the series be decided by
01:26who wins tonight?
01:28I think it makes sense that everyone should feel that way, whether you're a Cavs fan,
01:32Pistons fan, or whatever.
01:33Because if the Cavs finally prove that they can win on the road, there's no reason to believe
01:38that they're going to lose game six.
01:40Because now the Pistons have to prove that they can, you know, so like, and vice versa,
01:44if the Cavs lose this game, there's no reason, even if they win game six, to believe they're
01:48going to win game seven on the road.
01:49But when it comes to this, we're still in, the legacy is much more at stake for Donovan
01:55than it is to be captured.
01:57Like, this can't be a legacy-defining game.
02:00It's not like an AI term right there.
02:02Have you spent too much time doing ChatGPT lately?
02:05Well, we've got a nice, healthy relationship.
02:08Is that what that is?
02:08Although, I actually asked ChatGPT.
02:11Chat PPP.
02:13It's a different chat.
02:15Oh, ChatPP.
02:16It's actually the Jason Pierre Paul version.
02:19It's true.
02:20It's offshoot.
02:20Now, great, elite, but it is compromised by only having six fingers.
02:27But no, I mean, I think we're at the spot where in this series, Donovan can more hurt
02:32his legacy by having a bad game five than everyone's going to be like, that game five.
02:38You're going to forget game four if he stinks it up in game five.
02:41Yes.
02:41Game four will be an afterthought.
02:42Now, if he comes out tonight and drops another 40-burger.
02:46Yes, then it'll be, you'll talk about game four again for the next five years, and you'll
02:49also turn around and be like, that's part of what turned Donovan, and flip the switch
02:53is what happened in game four.
02:54But he still has to win the series.
02:56For sure.
02:57And not just that, but I do think the Cavs still have to acquit themselves well in the
03:02Eastern Conference Finals.
03:03Even if they don't win that series, if you get through this, and then it's just, no,
03:08you were so overwhelmingly more talented than everyone else, that's just kind of what
03:12got you through, and then you lose quickly to the Knicks, there would be another thing
03:16that I kind of think impacts this.
03:18Like, I just think there's only so much Donovan can prove in the first two rounds of the
03:22playoffs, whereas like one 43-burger game against the Knicks, even in a series loss, is something
03:28that people will remember and glom on to.
03:29I just think it matters more for Donovan because he's at the spot, you couldn't have asked for
03:33a better spot for him, all things considered, outside of just being done with the series
03:37and being on to the next round.
03:38The idea that you got three games, and you played great in game four, you seem like you
03:43got your shot back, you seem like everything's healthy, everything's going well for yourself,
03:46and you've never made it out of the second round.
03:48Like, he's asked to play in big type of games where the whole entire NBA world's watching.
03:52Guess what?
03:53You're the show.
03:53You're the show tonight.
03:54And before that game, we had multiple guests say, where's Donovan Mitchell been?
03:59Yeah, I know, for sure.
04:00And that's the first time, really, as a Cavalier, we've had those conversations because he's been
04:04so good previously.
04:06And it has looked like Don and the Donettes.
04:08I think there's another part of this where it's like, hey, that 43 burger was great.
04:13Tasted delicious the second half.
04:15But like, all right, now you got to do it again just to keep kind of reminding people
04:20that this is who you are.
04:21Like, it's so funny about when we talk about Donovan's legacy.
04:24There is a level that he has secured in terms of how people are going to think about him.
04:29But it's still relatively fungible, right?
04:32For sure.
04:32And when I say that, I mean, like, if he wins, if he goes through this and he wins and
04:37then he goes and they beat the Knicks and they're in the NBA finals, it is an incredible
04:41glow up.
04:42If they lose tonight and they don't get out of this round, it's not that it takes a hit.
04:48It's just it remains stagnant in a way that at 30, it's really tough to try and change
04:54that narrative unless you strike lightning at a bottle at a different time.
04:58Well, again, this is like an opportunity here where he can beat some of the charges that
05:01are against him.
05:01And this also goes for Harden in the same respects, too.
05:04Once you get to game five, six, seven, like this is the crunch time.
05:07This is when everyone that suggests that you you flame out in important games or you just
05:12disappear in important games.
05:13These are the type of games where if you have another good showing and you look at you
05:17between you and Donovan come out and lead this game, like all of a sudden you're rewriting
05:21some of your history, not all of it, but you're rewriting some of it.
05:23I am as much in on this series as you can be because you can't sleep on it like this
05:29is I
05:30have I got the butterflies about tonight.
05:32I need a Cavs win.
05:33I want a Cavs win.
05:35We got to take care of this series first, but there is a part of me that again, it's
05:40not that I think people are are bored by the Cavs.
05:43I think they're where you and I are where we're living and dying with every one of these
05:46games.
05:47But in terms of like the status of the Cavs where there's the big, you know, LeBron
05:52Giannis potentially this offseason does does Harden come back does Donovan come back and
05:57Mobley and all these kind of things and that's all kind of hanging in the balance and then
06:02we're still just waiting to get through round two.
06:04And so I think and again, like it's not a criticism of the Cavs.
06:08It's just a criticism of what you've done for four years and that somehow being in the
06:13second round of the playoffs, even though I think I'm reasonably confident that they're
06:18going to win this series.
06:20It does feel stagnant and I kind of feel the same way about Donovan like when he's going
06:25off, you're like special loving every second of this.
06:29Yeah, but you're it's almost like we're almost a little impatient like all right, can we get
06:32through this because I'd like to go to that next thing so we can part what part are we
06:36not tapping into with people, you know, after game two, it felt like the whole entire world
06:40want to call into the station and have Cavs discussions and have Cavs arguments and it
06:44was like, you know, when when the team was melting down, people were ready for that and
06:48then it felt like after game four when things are headed in the right direction, it felt
06:51like yesterday was a little lackluster all things considered and right now so far for
06:55throughout the first 40 minutes 30 minutes of this show, it feels a little lackluster.
06:59So I think some of it's I don't know that we respect our opponents.
07:03I damn I damn sure know we didn't respect Toronto and by the way again, I still don't.
07:07That was not a seven game series and I think Cavs fans are really smart to know that shouldn't
07:12have been against seven game series either even in this series like you watch those first
07:16two games and I think the fury came from you should have won one or both of those games
07:21and and I think I do think like we all see the Pistons in a similar light.
07:26Cade Cunningham is a really nice basketball player, but this team has massive limitations
07:31and they need another superstar to go with him to be a true threat in the Eastern Conference
07:36beyond just you want a bunch of regular season games and so I think when they lose it goes
07:40how could you lose to that team because it feels like the Pacers all over again or it
07:45feels like the Knicks all over again or it feels like the Orlando series even though
07:49you won that or I know the Celtics were the eventual NBA champions, but it's how you lost
07:55to the Celtics, right?
07:56So like I think that's where it's coming from.
07:58I think it's like the oh no.
08:00I'm trying to figure it out.
08:00I don't know if it's just there's just no juice with winning with this team or there's going
08:03to be some sense of like if they make it to the Eastern Conference Finals, then everyone's
08:07going to get on board and then all of a sudden it'll have the juice that we're discussing
08:11like is there is there like a there's a proven mode maybe that this Cavs team has that they
08:15haven't cleared yet until they do people will just look at him like all right, make us a
08:20bicycle clown.
08:21I think for all the haggling and all the fighting and all the thing, I think all of
08:25us, whether you were the most Cavs vibes in February after the hardened trade or the I'll
08:32believe it when I see it, I think we're all on the same page and we just we were just
08:36haggling
08:36over the details.
08:37I do.
08:37I think I think we're all in prove it mode with the Cavaliers and it is as insane as
08:43it sounds.
08:44Okay.
08:45Yeah, you beat the Pistons in game five.
08:46It's going to be enjoyable.
08:47We're going to have fun.
08:49But in the end, the questions as a Cavs fan, you immediately go to all right, but you're
08:53going to finish off the series.
08:54Well, so I wonder I wonder if that starts to change if they finish off the series and
08:57then you're you're stamped into the Eastern Conference Finals and I getting ahead of
09:00myself here, but is that the spot then where Cavs fans would be like, all right, let's
09:03let's lock in or is it just going to turn around and be like, oh, no, you're massive
09:07underdogs of the Knicks.
09:08Now, what are we doing?
09:09I think the lock in series is going to be the Knicks.
09:11Okay, at least with the Knicks.
09:12This has not been a lock in series because the Knicks you call back to the first postseason
09:16exit, you call back to the fact they were in the Eastern Conference Finals last year
09:21and you weren't like, I think there's a lot of things.
09:23There's something about this series like you and I are locked in for every possession.
09:26We're living and dying with this stuff, but I'm not getting I'm not getting that registered
09:29from a lot of the fan base right now.
09:30I think fans are locked in.
09:31I don't think that it's not an excitement thing.
09:34It's just I don't know.
09:35I think we're all in agreement.
09:37It's like, no, Cavs got to lock in, you know, like, okay, prove it.
09:41Or is it the idea that maybe maybe nobody wants to speak on it because they've just made
09:45everyone look like an idiot at every turn?
09:47They don't want to be a mush?
09:47Well, you don't want to be a mush.
09:48You don't want to be Lima.
09:49The people that have been very pro this Cavs team has looked like idiots at times.
09:53And the people that have been very anti this Cavs team have looked like idiots at times.
09:56Like, it's like there's no one really looking like they're clairvoyant in this Cavs discussion.
10:01And maybe that's part of the problem.
10:02Maybe people don't want to end up looking like they're stupid or wrong about it.
10:06Maybe that's it.
10:06I don't know.
10:07Those people have not stopped tweeting me after the Cavs wins the last two games.
10:10So there are people who want to see me eat bleep on this team.
10:14Is that right?
10:14As if I won't enjoy eating that bleep if the Cavs are in the Eastern Conference Finals.
10:18We got like the energy of a dead guy off this game tonight, though.
10:21And it's like it's one of those deals.
10:22It's like, all right, it's fine.
10:24We'll keep talking about it.
10:25But it's interesting to me how this has gone down.
10:28It's game five.
10:28It's a massive game.
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