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00:00Oh boy, what a sequence, what a game, tough loss down there in Los Angeles.
00:04It is Willard and Dibbs, Willard back momentarily.
00:07He's on assignment, but in the meantime, we bring in our dear friend,
00:11Cousin Nick, who is at the center of everything Warriors.
00:16My man, Nick Friedel, what's going on, brother?
00:20Mr. Dibbs, I've seen lots of crazy stuff with the most interesting team in basketball,
00:25but that was as pissed off as I have seen Steve Kerr.
00:30In a while.
00:31Guys, you know, I think the comparison was, remember that preseason years ago,
00:36I want to say maybe 18, where he was out there and going,
00:41I don't want to be here.
00:43I don't even want to be here.
00:45That was the time I've seen him that heated, at least outwardly.
00:50So it was quite an event last night in L.A.
00:55There were about 100 levels and layers we can get into.
00:59So let's do it.
01:00Well, I wonder if you'd sort of weigh in on this, Nick, because Dibbs and I,
01:05and we like to do this on this show, we like to argue about refs,
01:08because when they mess up, I'll call it out, and then Dibbs will defend it,
01:12and then rinse, repeat.
01:13And so Dibbs kind of made the comment that when Steve loses his mind like that,
01:19it's about more than just those calls.
01:23When you see that, do you believe that that was largely about the calls that we saw last night,
01:31or were we also seeing a little bit of a window into how Steve is just feeling as a coach in general right now?
01:38I don't think there's any question when you have the expectations that the Warriors did to start the year,
01:46Mark, and they just haven't played that well.
01:49I mean, they are just a supremely mediocre team, as we speak, and have been all year.
01:56There's no doubt that the frustration builds up over time.
02:00I will say, in watching him, at least last night, I mean, he was so frustrated at the way they were playing,
02:08and I should say at the way they were playing, because they just could not make any kind of shot,
02:13open shot, anything, that Steve was benched at times.
02:18I mean, usually he's up and moving around.
02:20He was so mad at everything going on that he was just sitting there trying to collect himself,
02:26and then as the ref started to miss a few calls and that happened, I think it all boiled over.
02:32My sense last night was he was so upset about those calls that it spilled out,
02:39but to what you guys are saying, there's no doubt when a team isn't having success,
02:44the person everybody will look to first is the coach,
02:48and Steve's had an unbelievable amount of success through the years,
02:53but I think he sees what everybody else sees.
02:56They're just not consistent.
02:58They can't find what they need night to night to get out of the mediocrity that they're in,
03:05and absolutely he's frustrated about it.
03:08And you look at last night, and Steph was unable to get the shot going,
03:11and not a lot of other offensive help from behind the line.
03:14Draymond Green goes 0 for 6.
03:16Is this just a case where this is kind of going to be the team that we're looking at?
03:20Buddy's not playing, Kaminga's not getting minutes, even though he wasn't listed with an injury.
03:25Are we kind of just sunk in a spot where no matter what happens with a Kaminga trade,
03:30this is largely going to be the product that we see?
03:34Dibs, the answer to that question is yes.
03:39And I have been trying to scream it from the rooftops the last few weeks here,
03:45but anybody who thinks that January 15th or the deadline,
03:51that some miracle trade is going to come in, I just don't see it.
03:57Guys, I mean, look at the options.
04:01Again, people don't want to hear it.
04:03A lot of the fan base I don't think understands it, but they're hard capped.
04:07Can they make a move?
04:08Sure.
04:09You know, there are moves to be made, but you've got to match up the salary.
04:13So are you better off if Jeremy Grant or Drew Holiday is on this team
04:19and Kaminga is not, if that's a direction that Mike Dunleavy wants to go with Joe Cronin in Portland?
04:26I guess so.
04:27But are you going to move, and Dibs, this goes to your point,
04:31from where they're at right now in mediocre land to some different place?
04:37I don't see it.
04:39I think they're better than what they've shown to this point in that when you look at the numbers,
04:44defensively, they've still been pretty solid.
04:46They just cannot generate enough consistent offense.
04:51But I know how much frustration there is within this fan base.
04:56I see it on Twitter every single day, at Kerr, where I would caution everybody to just kind of take a deep breath.
05:05Look at the roster.
05:06The roster just does not have the talent that it needs.
05:10Al Horford was like one for eight last night.
05:14They were banking on him to be a real difference maker this year.
05:17He's been hurt, and he's been ineffective.
05:20Draymond just has not played up to the level that he set for himself.
05:24He was better last night, but, I mean, Dibs, you said it.
05:29When he's missing all those threes, there's a reason they're giving him all those threes.
05:33I think Jimmy is still a very good player, but he's not the same high, high-level player every single night
05:40that we saw even a couple years ago.
05:44This roster and the talent on it is flawed, and we haven't even talked about Moody, Pods, Kaminga.
05:51They just haven't taken a step.
05:53So there's blame all over the place for the way they've landed in the place that they've gotten into.
06:01But at the core, they're just not good enough, and that is a reality that I don't think a lot of,
06:10at least the diehards out there, want to accept right now because they see Steph at the level that he's at,
06:17and they want to believe that there's something more out there.
06:20We're hanging out on the River Island's guest line right now with our buddy Nick Fridell,
06:24Odyssey Sports NBA insider.
06:26Check out all of Odyssey's newest sports podcasts on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
06:31All right, let's whittle it down from macro to micro then, Nick, because I think everybody's with you.
06:36Is there a magic trade that's going to suddenly make this team the four seed?
06:40Maybe not, but let's go piece by piece, and I want to start by asking it to you this way.
06:46When the Thunder are here last Friday night, because you know that this was thrown around on social media everywhere.
06:53The Thunder are here on Friday night.
06:56The Warriors sit their top players.
06:58Steve Kerr goes in front of the media, says,
07:02this is an opportunity for Kaminga to play, dot, dot, dot, take a breath,
07:07and then here comes, oh, Kaminga's got back soreness, and he doesn't play.
07:13Is anything going on there?
07:15Are the Warriors and Kaminga right now both incentivized for him to not play,
07:24or do we take those reports at face value?
07:27The whole thing was weird, Mark.
07:30I can always speak for myself personally.
07:33I'm sitting there, and you're asking Kerr, all right, well, when did Kaminga get hurt?
07:41And he's like, it popped up before the game, and I said, do you think it's going to linger?
07:46And he's like, I don't know.
07:49So are they both incentivized to your question?
07:53At this point, it's like, why run him back out there?
07:58Everybody sees the writing on the wall.
08:00The divorce has been imminent for weeks at this point.
08:04I think on a professional level, though, I think Jonathan's decision,
08:11and he's the only one who can speak for himself.
08:15Was he really hurt?
08:16What was really going on?
08:17We'll continue to ask him, but I think it rubbed people within the organization the wrong way
08:25because they didn't have those guys out there.
08:28They wanted him to get the minutes.
08:32I mean, Kerr was open about it.
08:33He said, I think he was on with Bonte and Evan that day, and they said,
08:39is Kaminga going to play?
08:40And he's like, yeah, this is the time for him to play.
08:44And then he doesn't play, and you're kind of sitting there going, okay.
08:49It just, you're watching this relationship come to a close,
08:55but at least for me, as somebody who's covered the league,
08:59I feel like there's a professional responsibility.
09:01Now, if Jonathan's hurt, he's hurt, and only he knows the answer to that,
09:06and he hasn't really wanted to talk, you know, in the last week or so,
09:11understandably, with all the other stuff going on.
09:14But, Mark, specific to your question in that game, I think that was like the end
09:19because if you're sitting there and you have the head coach saying,
09:23hey, he's going to play, we're going to put him out there,
09:26he's going to play however he's going to play, and then he doesn't play,
09:30it's like just bring this thing to a close because it is over.
09:35Okay, you say this is the end.
09:37Are you saying Jonathan has played his last minute with the Warriors?
09:41I wouldn't go that far just because you never know what happens injury-wise.
09:47I think the Warriors would absolutely put him back into a game over the next couple weeks
09:54as they wait to figure out what's going on.
09:56I do not think, as we sit here right now, it's some situation, Mark,
10:00where they're just going to completely ice him and say,
10:02there's no chance between now and February 5th, 6th, that he's going to play again.
10:11I wouldn't say that.
10:13I do think that we're entering into a phase where Kaminga is at the end of his Warriors run,
10:20and it will be better for everyone involved whenever that deal happens.
10:26What I'm curious about is, I know in talking to people within the organization,
10:32even a few weeks ago, it was, we're not just going to deal him to move him.
10:36It's not just going to be like, all right, well, this thing has gotten so bad
10:40that we're going to make this deal and it's going to be over with.
10:43I'm curious to see what happens in the next couple weeks, though,
10:47because if everyone acknowledges it's time for it to end,
10:52are the Warriors in that front office more incentivized to say,
10:56oh, okay, fine, let's just take the best offer we can get and move forward?
11:01Or would they try to play hardball with other teams and say,
11:05we're not just going to give up this 23-year-old talented young player
11:09who others believe certainly still has more to prove in the league?
11:14So that part is fascinating.
11:16But absolutely, if you were asking me,
11:20do you think the deal gets made before the deadline?
11:23Absolutely, right now, I do.
11:26And I thought it was interesting, Nick, last night,
11:28that he was just listed as DNP, not as somebody who was injured.
11:32So it was just a classic DNPCD.
11:35We had asked Steve Kerr before about Jonathan being a part of the
11:38stay-ready crew, and Kerr said, no, he's not really going to do that.
11:42And then you look at Guy last night, who didn't play at all, Guy Santos,
11:46and then stay-ready fourth quarter, he jumps up and plays really well
11:50in the fourth.
11:50Is that just another sign of where this whole thing is heading?
11:55Yes, because if Steve Kerr thought that Jonathan Kaminga
11:58could help the Warriors win dibs, he'd be out there.
12:01I mean, I can't repeat that fact enough.
12:05If Kerr and that coaching staff thought that Kaminga could help them win games,
12:11he would be out there.
12:12Kerr would try anybody right now to get out of the funk that this team is in.
12:19Guy Santos is the perfect example.
12:21You know, he plays for a few minutes.
12:23He helps change the tenor of that game.
12:26It's why Kerr loves him so much, because he knows he can go to him at any point,
12:30and he will be ready to roll.
12:32And I think everybody has tried to put on a happier face with this situation.
12:40But again, Mark, this goes back to what we were saying a couple minutes ago.
12:44When Kaminga had the chance and then didn't play, it was kind of like,
12:48okay, you know, fine.
12:51That's it.
12:51But no matter what side of this you're on, you believe Kaminga should play more,
12:58you believe that the Warriors have been right,
13:01and they just missed another first-round pick.
13:05If Kerr thought he could help them, then he would play.
13:10He's not playing because Steve Kerr believes he has better options on that bench.
13:16We're talking right now with Odyssey Sports NBA Insider and our good friend Nick Fridell.
13:21Check out all of Odyssey's newest sports podcasts on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
13:27I'm going to do a big old no-no here, Nick.
13:29We hate two-part questions.
13:30Oh, boy.
13:31We do.
13:31We hate two-part questions.
13:33But I trust you to be able to give an answer to both.
13:36Here it is.
13:37Do you believe that Steph Curry gets officiated differently than other stars around the league?
13:45Second part is, if you do, why?
13:49Why is it that way?
13:52Yes, I do think he gets a different whistle, Mark.
13:56And the second part is, I think that Steph is still so small in comparison to the other greats of the game
14:05that it's like officials just, they don't view him the same way.
14:11I don't know why that is, but I've covered this team a long time in two separate time frames.
14:19And absolutely, I don't think for a player of Steph's caliber, he gets the whistle that he should.
14:26I don't think there's any question of that for anybody who's watching.
14:30But to try and figure out the second part of the question, it just, it doesn't make sense.
14:38There's not a strong answer that everybody would believe in.
14:43But when you watch and you see some of the things that happen, you're just like, I don't know.
14:49And I'd say this about Steph, I think the difference is, he's never struck me as a flopper.
14:55You know, he might stick his leg out sometimes like other great jump shooters of the past.
15:01And I think he's guilty of that at times.
15:02But he's not a guy who just flops all over the floor looking for calls.
15:07But at least in my opinion, in my experience, absolutely, he doesn't get the same kind of whistle of the elite stars in the game.
15:18Maybe someday, I mean, maybe year 18 will be, you know, the time when he actually catches a break.
15:23And Nick, you know I'm a big-time ref defender, and part of it is because I don't know what they're supposed to do.
15:29But I look at the association, fouls are up, free throw attempts are up.
15:34What's the fix for what ails the league, which we all see it.
15:38None of us want to see all the fouls and all the free throws.
15:41Mr. Dibbs, it's a good question that I don't have the answer for and the league doesn't.
15:48And it's a real problem when you are trying to sell the intensity and the intrigue of the regular season.
16:00It's just not there.
16:02I mean, guys, I cannot stress this part enough.
16:05And I feel like I say it every few weeks, but if we were not talking about the Warriors and the soap opera that always continues
16:15and is always just creating content all over the place, I don't know why the regular fan is clicking into an NBA regular season game night to night.
16:28Now, I don't think that's all on the officiating, Dibbs, to what you're saying.
16:32And I think the officiating has had its problems, but I think that you could always go through and say, man, there are a whole lot of blown calls.
16:40Just feel like we see it more because the cameras are so good and people are locked in in a different way than they follow the game now.
16:48But I think the much broader issue is when you're calling all these fouls and the games are choppy
16:54and you don't have stars like Steph Curry to watch and look out for night to night,
17:01I just don't think the NBA as a product is in a really good place moving forward in the future.
17:08Now, people kind of just roll their eyes and go, oh, yeah, they got all these billions of dollars coming.
17:14That's all well and good.
17:15But I'm talking about the day-to-day consumers, the day-to-day fans that are going to flip on your game after work
17:22and look up at the bar and attempt to be locked into what's going on.
17:27I don't think the product, regular season-wise, is in a good place.
17:33And I think the officiating and the lack of consistency with the calls is absolutely a part of that.
17:40I don't want to know what Steph Curry thinks or what Steve Kerr thinks.
17:45I want to know what Nick Fridell thinks.
17:48Are the Warriors a better team right now when Draymond Green is not on the floor?
17:53Not on the floor is too strong, Mark.
17:57The Warriors are a better team with Draymond in more limited minutes.
18:02Because if you take Draymond completely off the floor, I think they can be absolutely,
18:08I mean, absolutely, they're better offensively.
18:10But what Draymond still brings at a very high level is defensive effort in games
18:20where he is all the way locked in, where he sees a personal challenge.
18:27I think the group responds to that.
18:30It resonates for everybody.
18:32So I understand where you're going and I understand, again, where portions of the fan base are.
18:37Oh, well, they're just better without Draymond.
18:40I see it.
18:41But I'm not willing to go to the next step and say, all right, that's just the way it's got to be.
18:48Draymond is best for this group in smaller doses than what we've seen.
18:53The offense just does not look very good with any consistency when he's out there
19:00and he's kind of at the center of things.
19:02There is a reason, guys, as anyone who is watching or listening to our friend Tim Roy,
19:08there's a reason why when you're watching these games, they give Draymond like five feet of space.
19:13I mean, we saw it in the first quarter last night in L.A.
19:16They're daring him to shoot.
19:18Shoot the three, Draymond.
19:19They just are daring him.
19:21And he's doing it and it's not going in.
19:24But he still takes them to a different level defensively.
19:28The problem, though, and Mark, this is a much broader point to the entire conversation.
19:33The Warriors were built for March and April, in theory.
19:36Like, hey, get us to the end.
19:39We still have Steph.
19:40We still have Jimmy.
19:41And Draymond can get everybody revved up.
19:44And Horford will be there.
19:45And we'll be ready to roll.
19:46The problem, as we all know, is they keep playing like this.
19:50They're going to end up in the play-in.
19:52And then, more than likely, they're going to end up playing OKC or Denver.
19:55And if they play them in that first round, that's it.
19:59I mean, that's a wrap.
20:00The season's over.
20:01So, I know that fans are frustrated.
20:05I get it.
20:06I just don't think the fix is to move Draymond for what?
20:12I'm not even sure what you get at this point as far as making your team better.
20:16And two, I don't know what the fix is coming up on this deadline.
20:20I think you can get solid players that can help you more than Kaminga, who's giving you
20:25nothing right now.
20:26But I don't think you're going to find a player who is going to take them from where they are
20:31right now to where they wanted to be to start the season.
20:35Nick, we will talk to you a week from today.
20:37And that day will be two days before J.K. Day.
20:41So, I want you to buckle up because that is going to be a very intense conversation.
20:46I can't wait.
20:50And guys, I just, I would only remind you that this team, for all its flaws and ups and
20:58downs, remains the most fascinating thing the NBA has.
21:04And I was reminded of it last night as all hell is breaking loose.
21:08This team is endlessly interesting.
21:14And it's not always going to be like this.
21:16And I know fans want to see wins.
21:17I get it.
21:18But for what we do, there isn't anything like the Warriors right now.
21:23That's fair.
21:23That's fair.
21:24Nick, great to have you, man, as always.
21:27You got it.
21:28See you guys.
21:28Okay.
21:29That's Nick Fidel.
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