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  • 2 days ago
Prudence and impetuousness. Wealth and poverty. Generosity and greed. Righteousness and wickedness. Purpose and fate.

Proverbs 22 covers a wide range of topics, some of which were probably inspired by the writings of the ancient Egyptian sage Amenemope.

From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).

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Transcript
00:00:00Proverbs 22.
00:00:30Proverbs 22.
00:01:00The eyes of the Lord will keep watch over knowledge, and he overthrows the words of the traitor.
00:01:04The sluggard says, there is a lion outside, I shall be killed in the streets.
00:01:09The mouth of forbidden women is a deep pit.
00:01:15He with whom the Lord is angry will fall into it.
00:01:18Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, and the rod of discipline drives it far from him.
00:01:23Whoever oppresses the poor to increase his own wealth or gives to the rich will only come to poverty.
00:01:28Proverbs 23.
00:01:59Make no friendship with a man given to anger, nor go with a wrathful man, lest you learn his ways and entangle yourself in a snare.
00:02:07Be not one of those who give pledges, who put up security for debts.
00:02:10If you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from under you?
00:02:15Do not move the ancient landmark that your fathers have set.
00:02:18Do you see a man skillful in his work?
00:02:20He will stand before kings.
00:02:22He will not stand before obscure men.
00:02:25All right, I guess I do have something to say about this chapter before we really get into it.
00:02:30Starting in verse 17, this, I think the next chapter and a half,
00:02:34closely parallels in Egyptian work that I mentioned when we first began the Proverbs study.
00:02:40Let me find that name again to see if I can pronounce it correctly.
00:02:44Amenemope.
00:02:45I don't know why these people have such long names.
00:02:49But Amenemope wrote, was an Egyptian sage or maybe he's a mythical figure, probably a real person because he gives a lot of detailed information about himself and his work.
00:03:01But he wrote this thing just called Instructions, and it was instructions to his sons, and he was a court official of some kind.
00:03:11He had lots of different offices.
00:03:13He called himself Superintendent of the Land, Offspring of a Scribe of the Beloved Land, Superintendent of Produce, which kind of reminds me of Joseph.
00:03:22And his work consisted of 30 chapters, and here we have Solomon apparently saying that I have left you 30 sayings.
00:03:34Now, in the King James and some translations, it will say I have left you special sayings or princely sayings, some glorious sayings, something like that.
00:03:44And that's because the Hebrew word there for sayings is spelled exactly the same way as three different words.
00:03:51They're not sayings, but for 30.
00:03:53And in one case, it can mean the past, or it's a plural word, so it would mean things past, or it can mean princely things or 30 things.
00:04:03All of those work based on the Hebrew spelling.
00:04:06There's actually one letter, a vav, if you're familiar with it.
00:04:10A vav is just a straight up and down line with a little hook on the top.
00:04:13And a yod, which is, you know, the same shape, but much smaller.
00:04:17The word for 30 has the yod.
00:04:20The word for princely has the vav.
00:04:23So in the Masoretic text, it has a vav, but some manuscripts have a yod.
00:04:29So it depends on which translation you're reading.
00:04:31But because there are so many sayings in this section that are very close to Proverbs in the instructions of Amenemope, that 30 is probably the correct translation.
00:04:47Because that's how Amenemope introduces his book, saying, here are 30 sayings that I have for you.
00:04:54And he starts them in the exact same way, with some of the same principles.
00:04:57He talks about, do not rob the poor because he's poor.
00:05:02Do not crush the afflicted.
00:05:03You know, of course, it's an Egyptian in the word, so it's a different language.
00:05:06It's just not exactly the same.
00:05:09So the big question here is, did Solomon get this from Amenemope, whatever his name is?
00:05:16Or did the Egyptian guy get it from Solomon?
00:05:19Or did they both get it from somebody else?
00:05:21And I read through most of the instructions of Amenemope today, just to see what the similarities really are.
00:05:32And the Egyptian work is much longer than the Hebrew one.
00:05:37This section of Proverbs is only, you know, a chapter and a half, maybe two chapters long.
00:05:42I copied this, the Egyptian one, into a Word document and had it read it to me while I tiddled with other things.
00:05:48And it's 14 pages long.
00:05:51So it's about the length of 30 chapters.
00:05:55And that makes me think of the Proverbs being 30 chapters plus the one about the, you know, the instructions of his mother and, you know, about the ideal woman in Proverbs 31.
00:06:07And I have to wonder if 30 was sort of an ideal, in the ancient world, was thought of as an ideal number of Proverbs.
00:06:16For the same reason that we think of it that way.
00:06:19You've got a proverb for every day of the month.
00:06:22You know, their month was 28 or 29 or 30 days long, depending on what stage the moon was in at the time of night when they usually counted the next day.
00:06:31Depends on which culture you're in.
00:06:34They pretty much all counted it from, you know, the sighting of the new moon.
00:06:38That was the beginning of the month.
00:06:39So, 28 or 29 days is normal, occasionally 30 days.
00:06:45And, you know, our months are 28, 30, or 31 days.
00:06:48And so it's very convenient to read a proverb a day.
00:06:51And anyways, that's why I think that the 30 might be just sort of a standard for the ancient world.
00:06:58And I suspect what really happened here isn't that Solomon copied from Amenemope or Amenemope copied from Solomon, but that they both learned some of the same Proverbs from an older source and included them into their works in roughly the same order.
00:07:14And that seems to be the most likely explanation to me.
00:07:18And if it is, if Solomon did copy from Amenemope, I don't think that says anything bad about these things being included in the Proverbs.
00:07:29The original one, I mean the Egyptian one, he does reference lots of Egyptian gods, but he also talks about a supreme deity, like the supreme creator of the world, things like that.
00:07:40And if Solomon copied those, he copied the wisdom and then re-ascribed things to Yahweh, Yod-Heh-Vav-Heh, instead of to Horus or whatever the Egyptian god was addressed in that particular proverb.
00:07:56Does all that make sense?
00:07:58Yeah.
00:07:59Yeah, I think so.
00:08:00But regardless, I mean, all that wisdom still comes from Yah at the end of the day, whether they think it comes from whatever other god they may think.
00:08:10You know, that same wisdom applies to everything.
00:08:12That's why you see other cultures with other beliefs and ours and certain things align.
00:08:20And people, they think that, you know, everybody's just copycatting each other or that, you know, our belief systems come from an ancient, even Egyptian belief system.
00:08:32And that, you know, we've just carried on that.
00:08:36And to me, it's like, well, just because a few things match, that doesn't mean that it's so.
00:08:43Just because I have certain qualifications that somebody else does, you know, that doesn't mean that I'm the same person as he or she.
00:08:52A lot of wisdom comes from just life experience.
00:08:56And whether you're a worshiper of the true god or you're a pagan or whatever, you're still having many of the same life experiences.
00:09:04So you're going to get a lot of wisdom just by living.
00:09:07No matter what else, what you believe about who created the universe.
00:09:11Yeah, through trial and error.
00:09:12Complete wisdom, but it'll be good regardless.
00:09:15Yeah, through trial and error.
00:09:17The Egyptians, did they not equate their king as the son of God?
00:09:27That's the mouthpiece of God.
00:09:31Yeah.
00:09:32So that would really be the only difference is they're ascribing this wisdom to come from that individual as opposed to Solomon made no overtures to that.
00:09:45So Solomon would have simply been reflecting wisdom for wisdom's sake, as opposed to building himself up to be the source of this, you know, and the, you know, elevating himself to the level of God.
00:10:00But wisdom's wisdom.
00:10:02Yep.
00:10:03Yeah.
00:10:03Okay.
00:10:03Well, let's go back to the top of the chapter.
00:10:06And a good name is to be chosen rather than great riches and favor is better than silver or gold.
00:10:11And we all know that, you know, a good name is not talking about the label on your birth certificate, but it's talking about your reputation and character.
00:10:20Who people know you to be.
00:10:21And if people know you to be a good and honest person who can be counted on for, you know, when you need help, when you need a friend, if that person's there, that's worth more than silver or gold.
00:10:35I mean, almost, I don't think, I mean, every biography I've ever read about some fabulously wealthy person counted his relationships.
00:10:46I mean, the person of the biography was about, counted his relationships as more important than his wealth.
00:10:51And, you know, it's not universally true.
00:10:54Some very wealthy people just hate everybody.
00:10:58And somehow they managed to get wealthy anyways.
00:11:01But on the whole, it's the, it's the people in the relationship you have with them that really matters.
00:11:07And the wealth is either a bonus or a, or a burden that weighs on those relationships.
00:11:16So that's getting one started off.
00:11:19I'm going to find my notes here.
00:11:21I have too many things open.
00:11:23So the four questions, what speaks to you, what puzzles you, what surprises you, and what offends you?
00:11:30Does anybody have a problem to, go ahead.
00:11:33I've started, before we started this whole thing, what offends, I find a majority of this, if you want to use the word offensive, it's difficult.
00:11:44Because it, to me, as I said earlier, Proverbs is setting forth an ideal, which in my mind, I'm not seeing played out, you know, to, to the justice that I would hope to see.
00:12:01And, of course, I want to make clear, it's to my mind, because God sees it all and is able to parse through and appropriate justice as is proper and fit.
00:12:16But when I take a step back, I'm like, oh, that's not fair.
00:12:19That's how it comes across the lot to me.
00:12:22So I just, you know, I have to take my hat off and just put the hat on of, this is just truth, and life's, that's the way life is, just live it, so to speak.
00:12:34Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about.
00:12:37Like, whoever sows injustice reaps calamity, and the rod they wield in fury will be broken.
00:12:42Right.
00:12:43So there's a whole lot of injustice in the world.
00:12:44And the people in charge of things are the ones perpetrating the most injustice.
00:12:50And they're benefiting from it.
00:12:52So how do we reconcile that?
00:12:55I mean, other than saying that, you know, God has a broader perspective, and all of these people, I mean, if you die on the wrong side of God, that's it.
00:13:04And you will be, suffer forever, or burned up, or whatever you believe about the afterlife is not going to be pleasant.
00:13:11And so there's a payment there, but this seems to be talking about the here and now.
00:13:18So is there evidence that, you know, people who live by the sword, die by the sword, or people who gain through injustice will end in poverty?
00:13:29Well, there's so many definitions of poverty, of justice, of the application of that, that I can't comment on it.
00:13:37But they may have realized, they may have struggled with some issue throughout their life.
00:13:45We won't know about it.
00:13:46You know, so there's a, there's a totality of reality that I have no access to or insight to, which I have to believe is applied here.
00:13:57But I, from the layman's stance, or from my perspective, it's, okay, I have to trust that that's being applied, but I can't really see it.
00:14:09But I also think we're comparing ourselves with, like, some really evil people, and we may think of ourselves, and we're like, well, we're not that evil.
00:14:21But I've lived in unrighteousness.
00:14:24I mean, I'm comparing bad to worse, maybe.
00:14:30Yes, good point.
00:14:31I'm, yeah.
00:14:32No, I'm paying for my own righteousness.
00:14:35I see my life, and if it's not going the way it should be going, it's because, you know, when I read the Proverbs, I'm like, yep, I didn't do that.
00:14:43I didn't do that.
00:14:44I didn't follow that instruction.
00:14:45Yep, I was that way, and so on.
00:14:47But, you know, I mean, I'd be as unrighteous if there's such a thing as other people who's going to sin, but, you know, the Father is just, and he measures things correctly.
00:15:01But, honestly, I wouldn't want to be those people that are doing all these horrible things.
00:15:06It just, it always seems to come back to them eventually, one way or the other.
00:15:11It may seem in the short run that they're doing well, but in the long run, man, it just doesn't pay off, and I think we just got to hold on to that understanding that the Father, that he's just, and righteous, and graceful, and merciful, and he loves, he disciplines those who he loves.
00:15:31So that makes me feel that he doesn't discipline.
00:15:35He just, he gives, he gives them, he gives those people the unrighteousness that they want.
00:15:41And they lead to that path of destruction.
00:15:45While those of us that may live in some kind of unrighteousness, but that goes after his righteousness, and he disciplines, and we feel that pain, eventually we'll see the fruits of that discipline come to bear.
00:16:00So, we might be just comparing ourselves with some evil people, but I don't know, man.
00:16:06I've met what it appears to be some really righteous people, and their lives are definitely better than mine.
00:16:14At least, I hear from the outside looking in.
00:16:17And so, if I compare myself to those, I'm like, well, I think it's somewhere it does say in the scripture that he pays, the Father pays according to our righteousness.
00:16:26So, it seems to me that the more righteous we are, the better life we live, the more unrighteous that we are, you know, the worse it's going to be.
00:16:36And even if those people that are living in unrighteousness, that are stealing from us, lying, killing us to a certain extent, they'll eventually pay for it one way or shape or another.
00:16:47Whether it's with dementia, or the loss of a child, or just straight-up poverty, or death, or whatever it may be.
00:16:56Yeah, or just misery.
00:16:58Or misery, exactly.
00:17:00But if we keep pursuing after the word of God and his righteousness, eventually, it may take some while because he's refining you as gold and silver.
00:17:09Then eventually, you'll get through that.
00:17:13At least that's the hope.
00:17:14Because if we don't have that hope, man, we're going to go crazy.
00:17:20I've got to believe that.
00:17:22Because I've seen it in the scriptures.
00:17:24I've seen it.
00:17:24And if we believe what's in here, then I have to believe that the Father is just, and he will make me righteous.
00:17:32Yeah, and I think that goes right along with what Scott was saying about there being different kinds of poverty, and there's different kinds of wealth.
00:17:38And it's hard to measure exactly what Solomon meant by this.
00:17:44Was he really talking just about material wealth?
00:17:46And maybe your wealth is in the personal connections you have.
00:17:52And if you abuse those in order to hurt somebody else, maybe what you're going to lose are relationships, or you're going to lose joy in those relationships, or something like that, that other people won't even see.
00:18:05And yeah, the misery or the way that people suffer that people on the outside can't readily observe.
00:18:12Yeah, it is comforting, Jay, that a standard, whatever that standard is, a standard is set.
00:18:20If we didn't have a standard set, it would be very difficult to basically orient yourself.
00:18:30You wouldn't be able to know I'm at least pointing in the right direction.
00:18:35You might not be hitting the mark.
00:18:38But so I think that's an important thing to acknowledge.
00:18:42Yep, I agree.
00:18:45So we're skipping down to what offends you.
00:18:47Good news, bad news, right?
00:18:49Yep.
00:18:51I've marked one down here.
00:18:52Let me find it.
00:18:54I don't even remember what it is.
00:18:56Oh, yeah.
00:18:57Along very similar lines.
00:18:59The eyes of Yahweh keep watch over knowledge, but he overthrows the words of the traitor.
00:19:04Or the words of the, what's the meaning of that word?
00:19:08The treacherous.
00:19:10The what?
00:19:10I usually think of the treacherous.
00:19:12You know, somebody who is conniving.
00:19:15And, you know, that's on a day-to-day level, I think that is usually true.
00:19:23That people who tend to scheme and cheat other people, it usually comes back at them.
00:19:29Because most of those people aren't, they're not really that smart.
00:19:33They're not brilliant.
00:19:34They don't have the money to hide everything they're doing.
00:19:36It's the really powerful people that get away with it.
00:19:40And they're the ones that have the most influence over other people.
00:19:43You can look at our news media.
00:19:46They, I mean, you can't trust anything from any source anymore because it's all either just made up or it's just so politically slanted that it's difficult to know what's, you know, what they're exaggerating, what they're leaving out.
00:20:02And they just keep going and going and who's going to stop them?
00:20:07I mean, they own all the presses.
00:20:09I mean, eventually they're all going to die, just like we all are.
00:20:12But what about before then?
00:20:16Will the truth ever come out if all of the people who write the histories and the records are telling lies?
00:20:25How will that truth come out?
00:20:27I don't know.
00:20:27I mean, on a day-to-day basis, for our lives, for you and me, I think this proverb is mostly true.
00:20:33It just offends me that it doesn't apply to the most powerful people.
00:20:37Yeah.
00:20:38Anybody else offended by today's proverbs?
00:20:40Yeah, I wasn't a big fan.
00:20:45I did have a question.
00:20:47I don't know if it's, I'm not offended, but I was wondering in verse 3 when it says,
00:20:54the prudent sees danger and hides himself, but the simple go on and suffer for it.
00:21:00To me, I don't know if I'm offended, but I don't like the idea of danger or evil.
00:21:08The other translation I was looking at said evil.
00:21:12The prudency is evil and hides himself.
00:21:14And I'm kind of offended by that, I guess, because I don't believe that we should be hiding from evil.
00:21:23I don't know.
00:21:24I don't know.
00:21:24I guess I don't understand the context here because that kind of offends me.
00:21:30Because if we let evil go unchecked, it does damage to people.
00:21:36Yeah, let's see what...
00:21:37Well, the scripture about the lion, I think it was the sluggard sees the lion outside, that sort of comments on what you said as well.
00:21:45And that is, if you don't address this danger, you're a goner.
00:21:53You know, what you're suggesting that the danger be dealt with is also addressed within this proverb, these proverbs.
00:22:01I think that the idea of a prudent person is really kind of the central perspective here.
00:22:12So, I think it's just talking about, like, a prudent person is going to be aware of all these things and, like, you know, take precautions, protect themselves.
00:22:23But naive people, as opposed to naive people, naive people will pay the penalty because they're just kind of going about unaware.
00:22:35So, I don't know if it means that, like, we should hide...
00:22:40I don't know if it means that we shouldn't hide from evil, or we should.
00:22:45I just think it's more specific to the prudent person versus the naive.
00:22:50That's just my perspective, though.
00:22:52So, I don't...
00:22:53That's how I took it.
00:22:55Well, I think it's important to understand what the word evil means in scripture.
00:23:01It frequently means, you know, evil people, people who do evil things, wicked.
00:23:06But the word is raw, and it doesn't necessarily mean something that is intentionally wicked.
00:23:15Evil just means something that is unpleasant or bad.
00:23:18So, if there's a tornado coming, that's evil.
00:23:21And so, I think in the sense of this particular proverb, it could be saying, there's a train coming.
00:23:29If you don't get off the tracks, you're going to get hurt.
00:23:32So, the prudent, look ahead, see what's coming, and avoid trouble.
00:23:38And whether that's, you know, gangs or politics that they can't control, or whether it's, you know, bad weather, stormy seas, or something like that.
00:23:48It's just something that you can't stop.
00:23:51What are you going to do about it?
00:23:52If there's nothing you can do to stop it, then you have to get out of the way.
00:23:57What is the definition of prudent?
00:24:00Let's see.
00:24:01Hebrew word there is arum.
00:24:06Subtle, shrewd, sensible, crafty.
00:24:11Someone who's thinking.
00:24:12Sensible works.
00:24:13I like sensible.
00:24:14So, the sensible person sees a reality and responds to it.
00:24:21Yeah, I think this is talking about somebody who is strategizing.
00:24:24Somebody who's making plans.
00:24:26Yeah.
00:24:26And thinking ahead.
00:24:28Well, it makes me think about, you know, Yeshua, where when he went to the temple, when they were buying or selling,
00:24:35and he just started flipping tables and kind of facing what you would consider evil to a certain extent.
00:24:43But at least I know one time that I remember they were trying to stone him, and he hid himself.
00:24:49He ran away.
00:24:51So, that, to me, it's sensible and, you know, prudent.
00:24:56Yeah, he's waiting for the right time.
00:24:58Yeah, he's waiting for the right time.
00:25:00It's like, this is not my fight to fight.
00:25:02Again, it goes back to, you know, the Roman Empire, right?
00:25:05Everybody was waiting for that Messiah that was going to come with a sword and get rid of the Roman Empire.
00:25:11And, you know, that wasn't it.
00:25:14It's like, just wasn't his time.
00:25:16You know, as much as you want to fight evil, I think you just got to cut your losses sometimes.
00:25:22This is not my time.
00:25:23This is not my fight right now.
00:25:25And, you know, I think that's smart.
00:25:27Especially when you see everything that's going around in life and people want to fix it.
00:25:31And it's like, yeah, but who's asking you to fix it?
00:25:35And so, no one, you know, can you really fix it?
00:25:39Sometimes you got to let it go.
00:25:41Yeah, but, you know, Lisa is also right that there is a lot of evil in the world that if nobody, I mean, if we all just assume there's nothing I can do about this, then there won't be.
00:25:53Yeah.
00:25:53And sometimes you have to stand up regardless.
00:25:55Because there's, if everyone's saying that, like, look at all the things that are happening right now that are so evil.
00:26:02And the reason they're happening is because people are standing by and letting them happen.
00:26:07And I just have a huge problem.
00:26:09It's injuring children.
00:26:10And I just, I feel like the last three years have shown us that people standing by and saying, well, there's nothing that can be done.
00:26:20That's extremely harmful to our society.
00:26:25Yeah, that reminded me of a passage in Isaiah.
00:26:27This is Isaiah 3.
00:26:29And it's describing the downfall of Jerusalem.
00:26:32It says, a man, a man will seize one of his brothers in his father's house and say, you have a cloak, you be our leader, take charge of this heap of ruins.
00:26:41But in that day, he will cry out, I have no remedy.
00:26:44I have no food or clothing in my house.
00:26:46Do not make me the leader of the people.
00:26:48And then it goes on to describe the fall.
00:26:50Because there is nobody willing to stand up.
00:26:53There's nobody willing to do what's right.
00:26:56Everybody's going to suffer.
00:26:56And when he says, you have a cloak, be our leader, from our modern perspective, that's a little difficult to understand.
00:27:05But he's talking about a cloak of office, like a mantle of office, like saying, you have inherited the headship or the patriarchy of this clan.
00:27:16So it's your responsibility to stand up.
00:27:18And he's saying, I can't even take care of my own family.
00:27:21How am I supposed to take care of all you people?
00:27:23But it's the nature of leadership that when the time is ready, if the leader stands up, people will follow.
00:27:30And if nobody stands up, who are they going to follow?
00:27:34Everybody can't be the leader.
00:27:36Yeah, but in this case, it's clearly defined that he is the leader.
00:27:41Or he should be, yeah.
00:27:42Or he should be, yeah.
00:27:43But that's clearly defined.
00:27:44He should go out and fight the fight.
00:27:46But there's other times where, you know, it's not defined by title, if you should, you know, if you should, if you shall do this or that or the other.
00:27:57So that's where I think discernment comes along.
00:28:00Because, I mean, we've talked about it in private.
00:28:02I would love to go do certain things.
00:28:05But the father hasn't called me to do those things.
00:28:08He's called me to do other things.
00:28:09So as much as I want to do the things that my flesh wants to do, because I feel that, hey, I can get rid of evil just like that, that may not be the case.
00:28:18You know, I may have just have to wait and stand by and just keep sharpening the saw and keep sharpening my mind and keep sharpening my spirit until that time comes.
00:28:27You know, like a David, right?
00:28:29Like a David, he was just out there doing his thing.
00:28:32And then when he was called to do it, he was ready.
00:28:37You know, he's probably been slinging rocks forever, not knowing that that's how the father was going to use him for that time.
00:28:46He was just minding his own business, right?
00:28:48Yeah, it's true.
00:28:48He didn't have a title.
00:28:49They didn't even want him to do anything.
00:28:52But by discernment, by wisdom, I don't know, right?
00:28:55He was just like, now it's my time.
00:28:57But there was this clear vision that nobody was doing anything, and he took the task upon him to take action.
00:29:06Verse 4 kind of addresses David.
00:29:09You know, the reward of humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor in life.
00:29:13He definitely was humble and had fear of the Lord.
00:29:17Now, I look at that and apply it to today, and I'm like, I'm not sure humility and, well, maybe fear of the Lord, but humility brings riches and honor.
00:29:26But that really applies to David spot on.
00:29:31He was humble.
00:29:33You couldn't believe it.
00:29:34I mean, he had the chance to take out Saul.
00:29:36Nope, not going to do it.
00:29:38It's not, you know, that's God's man.
00:29:41And definitely had the fear of the Lord until he messed up, but he got right with the Lord again thereafter.
00:29:47So, that particular verse, and I'm glad you said it, because I was looking at that, just sort of scratching my head.
00:29:54And then when you brought up David, Carlos, I'm like, oh, yeah, there it is.
00:29:59So.
00:30:00Yeah, there's a continuum or a spectrum of people taking charge in scripture and, you know, doing the right thing and whether or not they, there was a clear, they had clear authority to do it.
00:30:13Like, you look at, I want to say, like Gideon, if I remember right, he was not his father's heir, that he was actually pretty low down on the totem pole.
00:30:24You know, his father was the patriarch of the tribe, but he wasn't in line for that leadership.
00:30:30And people had to cajole him into it.
00:30:33God had to pretty much force him into taking leadership.
00:30:37And I think that it's not everybody's job to start a revolution.
00:30:42In fact, that's almost nobody's job.
00:30:45But there are a few people who do have that capacity that God does appoint for those kinds of roles.
00:30:51And in our personal lives, we all need to stand up for right and wrong.
00:30:56But when it comes to standing up against massive forces, national governments, things like that, it's none of our jobs to, you know, pick up arms and go fight the government or invade some other country or whatever it is we're going to do.
00:31:13Now, even if you look at the American Revolution, despite all of their flaws, and there are no perfect people, there were lots of problems.
00:31:22But the people who led that revolution were already in the government.
00:31:26They were not taking, they weren't taking over.
00:31:29I mean, it wasn't like the French Revolution where it was, you know, a bunch of peasants beheading the nobility.
00:31:34These were, these were the elite already.
00:31:37They were already governors in, in the Senates and House of Representatives in their various colonies.
00:31:44And so the people had already given them that authority.
00:31:48The people are God, depending on how you look at it.
00:31:51So they had the standing to, you know, remove their governors when necessary or to separate their territory and their, their area of authority from another.
00:32:02And I think, you know, you and me, we have the authority to remove our own families from Texas or California or, you know, the United States.
00:32:14We have the authority to do that in the United States may try to stop us, but, you know, we do have, I think, a righteous God-given authority to remove ourselves from this polity and become part of some other people.
00:32:28But we don't have the right to do that for anybody else, not unless those people or God has given us that authority.
00:32:36Kind of getting a little bit far afield here.
00:32:39I think my point, though, was that God does appoint people for certain roles, and the level of that appointment is not really up to us.
00:32:50Because there are people who naturally have those positions, there are people that God puts in those positions, but for the most part, we don't have the authority to take it on our own initiative.
00:33:01It has to be given.
00:33:03Does that make sense?
00:33:05Sure does.
00:33:05Yeah, but, I mean, what would you say about what's going on with the, oh, I don't know, the story times in schools and libraries right now where the person reading the story is conveying a message that's harmful to children?
00:33:28Like, I've seen examples of people going in and saying, this is wrong, and it needs to be stopped, and you can stop things from happening.
00:33:40And, I mean, I'm not signing up for that particular role.
00:33:44I'm just saying that, where is that line?
00:33:47And if you hear, if God puts a calling in your heart, I don't know, it just seems like we're made to be agents of Christ, and Christ was a peaceful person, but also overturned tables and, you know, got mad and said, no, I'm not.
00:34:08Yeah, well, there are people fighting those fights, and people should.
00:34:12But, I mean, there's a city, Texas City, not far away from where I'm at, where the parents stood up to the school board because they found in the library books that were, you know, rated X, right?
00:34:27And, you know, they're working through that.
00:34:30But I'm not saying that you need to hear God audibly telling you, hey, you need to go fight that.
00:34:38I think there's some things that are very clear to do.
00:34:41I think we all do in our lives fight the good fight.
00:34:45You know, like, I refuse to do certain things, like use pronouns.
00:34:49You know, you can be shamed for saying those things and look down upon.
00:34:53And at work, I see, you know, believers standing up for, hey, how come that, you know, us Christians don't have employee resource groups?
00:35:02And they do, and they get shut down.
00:35:04You know, but they stand up and just risk their jobs, their title, their careers, you know, their respect from others because they're not being supposedly inclusive to other people.
00:35:17You know, you have to fight the fight that you feel led to fight, and you have to do it, yeah.
00:35:25If you feel led to do it.
00:35:26But I guess what I'm saying is we shouldn't just go out there and just fight out of emotion.
00:35:31But, you know, if you're called out to fight a fight, yeah, go do it.
00:35:36There's a lot of context involved there.
00:35:39It depends on what kind of fight.
00:35:41And, you know, like this particular topic, these drag queen story hours, I think that this is a downward trend in our culture.
00:35:53You know, this transgenderism and all this insanity is not part of our culture.
00:36:00People are trying to force it into our culture.
00:36:02And so we have every right to go into public places and make public stands against these events and this behavior.
00:36:12And it is the law of our land that nobody has the right to stop us.
00:36:16They'll try to do it anyways.
00:36:19But you have to judge your personal situation there, too.
00:36:23If you're arrested, how is that going to impact your family?
00:36:26And you have to use some prudence there.
00:36:29Sometimes it's worth it.
00:36:30Sometimes it's not.
00:36:31If you're a mother with small children, it may be better to keep your head down.
00:36:35And consider if this was, if we were living in ancient Babylon and, you know, people were, you know, sacrificing to their gods and worshiping their idols.
00:36:46Would you be right to go out to, I don't know, there's some festival for some pagan god.
00:36:53Would you be in the right to go out into that middle of that festival and start preaching at people saying, this is wrong.
00:37:00There's only one god.
00:37:01You need to stop all this.
00:37:03You'd be right.
00:37:04But would it be a prudent thing to do?
00:37:07I mean, is anybody even going to listen to you?
00:37:08In our culture, that's not the problem.
00:37:12In our culture, we have people doing the opposite.
00:37:15They're forcing their way into an existing culture and trying to make it worse.
00:37:21And we have every right and obligation to stand against that and stop it if we can.
00:37:26That doesn't mean that, you know, we can't go around shooting people or anything like that because we're not the government.
00:37:32And that is the civil government's role, even according to scripture.
00:37:36That's their role, not ours.
00:37:39You know, you got one, one obvious example that people frequently use to the contrary.
00:37:46And that's with Pinchas or Phinehas, depending on which translation you have, or Pinchas.
00:37:52This was, I think, Aaron's grandson, and the Israelites were out in the wilderness, and the Moabites and the Midianites were trying to trick them into worshiping their gods, and it worked.
00:38:08You know, the Moabite women came into the camp, lured people into idolatry, and God sent a plague against Israel.
00:38:16And they stopped it by, you know, they had a council.
00:38:19Until the chiefs of all the clans got together, and God said, here's what you're going to do.
00:38:25You are going to, each one of you, go and kill the ones in your tribes who are engaging in this practice.
00:38:31And then this guy named Zimri takes this, the daughters of one of the Moabite chieftains, and starts having sex with her right there in front of everybody.
00:38:40Like, right at the entrance of his tent, and he's one of the princes of his tribe.
00:38:44Well, judgment had already been passed.
00:38:47Phineas went and drove a spear through both of them and killed them.
00:38:51But this was not vigilante justice, because God had already passed sentence and told them what they were going to do.
00:38:58And Phineas, in his, because of his zeal, God said that he would give him an eternal covenant of peace because of his violence.
00:39:05Phineas, which, you know, an interesting contrast.
00:39:10But Phineas had that standing.
00:39:12He was the grandson of the high priest.
00:39:14He was one of the tribal elders.
00:39:16He was there in the council judging the nation.
00:39:19Judgment had already been passed.
00:39:21Sentence had been handed down.
00:39:22He was just carrying it out.
00:39:24And he wasn't waiting for formalities to do it.
00:39:27And there's a time for that.
00:39:29And I think standing up in libraries and trying to prevent the deliberate perversion of children, I think we all have a right to do that.
00:39:40Whether you choose to do it or not depends on your personal circumstances.
00:39:43Yes.
00:39:44No, I agree.
00:39:45And I'm not really signing up to do that.
00:39:48But I guess I'm just questioning the whole proverb because it seems like it's just saying, well, be sensible.
00:39:56You know, there's been a lot of sensible people and there's been a lot of atrocities in history that have, I think, contributed to a lot of harm.
00:40:07Yep.
00:40:08Yeah, but just like the father gives verbal warnings over and over again before he takes out the sword.
00:40:18Maybe this is the same thing.
00:40:20He's just warning people right now and just kind of let them go through their own things.
00:40:26But also, we could probably talk about this all day, but we've kind of mentioned this.
00:40:31Maybe right now what's going on is the separation.
00:40:35He's dividing, you know, the sheep from the goats.
00:40:39He's testing the hearts.
00:40:41He's seeing who's righteous and not.
00:40:43And as much as we hate it, as much as we dislike it, as long as it's, you know, it's disgusting to us, all these things.
00:40:52He's just waiting, quiet, listening.
00:40:57And just his time will come.
00:41:01And let's just hope and pray that, you know, those who are living on righteousness, that they may come out of that.
00:41:08And we got to be his hands and feet that lighten the salt and point them in the right direction.
00:41:16And it's, you got to be discerning on when to take action and when not to.
00:41:23And like Jay said, you know, the consequence of that.
00:41:26But your feelings are completely right, Lisa.
00:41:30And the way you're thinking, it's right.
00:41:33This is, all this stuff is horrible, horrible.
00:41:37But who knows what the father, he is just.
00:41:39And he's going, all these people are going to pay for it.
00:41:46We may not even have to lift a finger.
00:41:49You know, we were talking about the verse where it talked about the prudent.
00:41:53I've run into, in Maine, the pronoun police and their clients of ours, of the company I work for.
00:42:03And they've made it very clear what their wishes were and how they were offended because I was using Texas talk when I spoke with her.
00:42:13Yes, ma'am.
00:42:14And I was being polite.
00:42:17And she got furious.
00:42:20My picking a fight with her would have not been prudent for me.
00:42:25Not only because my work would not have backed me, but what am I going to prove to this person by calling her out on that?
00:42:35She differs with me.
00:42:36She's asking me to speak to her in a certain fashion.
00:42:40And I chose to comply because there was no cost benefit for me or for righteousness as far as I'm concerned.
00:42:51And there's no way I was going to reach her or have any type of meaningful dialogue.
00:42:58So I chose not to pick that fight at that point.
00:43:01I'm sure, Lisa, where you're at, you run into that type of scenario a lot.
00:43:07Whereby there is peer pressure or societal pressure or whatever in California, which that's where you're at.
00:43:14Correct, Lisa?
00:43:15Yeah, well, going back between California and Las Vegas.
00:43:19So, yeah, both.
00:43:19Okay, there you go.
00:43:20So you get it in both places.
00:43:22So you pick and choose what battle you may or may not engage in.
00:43:28And then to what end?
00:43:30Is it prudent to stand up to your rights, for your rights?
00:43:37Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, you know?
00:43:41Definitely.
00:43:42No, I'm probably more often going the way of the prudent or being prudent, trying to be prudent.
00:43:53But then that seems like self-preservation rather than standing up for what's right.
00:43:57And, you know, there's just so many atrocities that are, you know, I feel are on my heart.
00:44:05Child trafficking and abortion and so many things happening that I feel we have to stand up, even if it's just legislatively, you know, I don't know.
00:44:18It just seems like hiding ourselves is not the right approach.
00:44:23And I go to a church where they're pretty, they're pretty outspoken on these matters.
00:44:34And I admire that.
00:44:35And that's why I'm attracted to the church, because they're not sitting back and they're not saying, oh, well, these things are okay.
00:44:45You know, of course, then you have things like what happened this week.
00:44:50And there's going to be targeting of Christians who, by people who are angry and whatever they are offended or whatever, whatever beef they have.
00:45:03I don't know.
00:45:04Maybe it's not prudent for us to stand up and say this is wrong.
00:45:08I don't know.
00:45:10No, I think it's prudent to say it's wrong.
00:45:12It's how you go about it.
00:45:14The timing of doing it.
00:45:16Right is right and wrong is wrong.
00:45:18But the manner in which it's addressed is unique to each circumstance and situation.
00:45:26That's how I would say it.
00:45:27Judging whether or not you're actually going to make an impact on somebody is an important part of that.
00:45:31Like you're saying, if you're in a one-on-one conversation with somebody, you're not going to change their mind no matter what you say.
00:45:38You've got a choice between sticking to your guns or just creating an argument.
00:45:43Do you play into their fantasy or what?
00:45:46I don't know.
00:45:47That's a gray area.
00:45:48And also if you're, if you are representing somebody, you know, if you're the agent of somebody else and they insist that you patronize these insanities, I don't know what you do with that.
00:46:02I mean, I know what I've decided to do for myself.
00:46:05I certainly can't dictate that to anybody else.
00:46:07The vaccine was a great example of that.
00:46:11Pick and choose.
00:46:14Arguments that I got into at some point is just like, all right, stop.
00:46:18This is what I'm doing.
00:46:19Or you do what you want to do.
00:46:21You know, I can give you the reasons.
00:46:23I can give you the data, the support that support what I'm doing.
00:46:26But at some time, it's just, okay, you do you, I'll do me.
00:46:32Yeah, we got to keep in mind, though, what the proverb says about a fool.
00:46:35He says, don't waste your time with a fool.
00:46:37If you know that person is a fool, why keep going back and forth with them?
00:46:42If you know that, just point to be even having conversations with them.
00:46:49If they're not even open to, if they already made up their mind, there's nothing you can do about it.
00:46:56It's just better let those things go and let them go their own way.
00:46:59Dust off your sandals, turn around, and go your merry way to somebody that actually wants to hear about the word of God and righteousness.
00:47:06Those who, the father, at some point, the father gives those people to their own righteousness.
00:47:12They're gone.
00:47:13They're gone.
00:47:13As much as our nice little bitty heart wants to, you know, love them as much, thinking that they're going to come back to the other side, that's not our job.
00:47:23It's the father's job to change their heart through Yeshua.
00:47:27It's our job just to spread the word of God to whoever wants to listen to it.
00:47:31But if they don't want to hear it, they don't want to hear it.
00:47:35Yeah, that's a good reminder.
00:47:36Sometimes it feels like we're, or I feel like it's our job to go out and do the saving, but really, Jesus did the saving already.
00:47:50It's our job to just spread the good news.
00:47:53We are wading into some deep and troubled waters tonight, and I think that's great.
00:47:59Speaking of deep waters, I'm curious about what people think about the next verse, because it doesn't seem that the reward for humility and fear of the Lord is riches and honor in life.
00:48:11But I know that's what the verse says.
00:48:14It just doesn't seem that way in the world we're loving in.
00:48:18Well, like I said earlier, I was struggling with that when you were reading your verse, and I was going the exact same route, and then it just dawned on me, that's David.
00:48:29That is who he was to a T.
00:48:34Does that apply to everybody?
00:48:36I don't know.
00:48:36I mean, I don't think so.
00:48:37I really don't think so, and I don't see where humility often is equated with riches physically.
00:48:47You know, I imagine it does happen at times, but I'm not sure it's a maxim.
00:48:52Yeah, that is a difficult one.
00:48:54You kind of have to tweak the meanings of humility and riches.
00:49:00I mean, honor and life, those are pretty easy to equate with humility and fear of the Lord.
00:49:05But wealth, that one's a little more difficult.
00:49:09Hey, name it and claim it, baby.
00:49:12You know, just like with the one we were talking about before, one way to look at this is from God's eyes.
00:49:20You know, there are different kinds of wealth.
00:49:23And humility certainly builds an eternal reward.
00:49:27That doesn't seem to be what this is saying, but it is one way to make sense of it.
00:49:34That's hard, Jay, because that's what I brought up earlier.
00:49:36It's always trying to explain away, well, it's a different type of wealth or a different type of, you know, your riches are in heaven or your honor is here or there.
00:49:47When I would love for this to be, and I'm sure it is, I just can't get my mind around it.
00:49:52That's what I have to, that's what I end up with.
00:49:54It's, you're God, you said it, I, okay.
00:49:58But oftentimes, I'm looking at this and saying, I'm not, you know, I don't see where it's applying today or applicable today as I would like it to be.
00:50:09But that's me.
00:50:10Yeah, you know what it said, though, more money, more problems, though, man.
00:50:15It's even Solomon said, you know, it's like, you know, he had all the riches in the world and the dude had so much trouble.
00:50:21I don't want the riches of the world.
00:50:24I just want to be comfortable.
00:50:26It's just human nature to kind of want more.
00:50:30If I want more is to give more.
00:50:33But I just don't think I have the capacity to be, like, wealthy, like millionaires.
00:50:41I just, I don't trust myself with all that money.
00:50:45I just rather, I rather be.
00:50:48And I've thought about this because before we jumped into recording, I shared a few things with you guys, right?
00:50:54And it's honestly, like, I rather, I rather struggle and wrestle with the father than not have any issues because that's how you build a relationship with him.
00:51:06That's how you grow and get refined.
00:51:10Because we, being refined, we're not going to live here forever.
00:51:13So, once we meet him and we get accordingly, things are given to us, I think that's what we're here for, right?
00:51:26I mean, we all know, you know, love God, love your neighbor.
00:51:29We're here to spread his word and his grace and his mercy and things like that.
00:51:34But if, I've said this before, when things have been going great in my life, I forget about them.
00:51:40And then he reminds me of, he reminds me, hey, you forgot about me.
00:51:47And it's usually through a strong trial.
00:51:49So, if I have to go through these miniature trials and tests so I can keep having a relationship with him and not forget him.
00:52:00Because I've been there when, I remember my life when he wasn't there.
00:52:06And he just gave me away to unrighteousness.
00:52:09And I just went in my own merry way.
00:52:11And then things eventually came back.
00:52:13And I'm, again, paying for the consequences of these things until today.
00:52:17So, I would rather be going through the things that I'm going through now, seeing all the unrighteousness around me, and wrestling with those things with him,
00:52:28by my side, through his word, through Yeshua, than not have any troubles.
00:52:34And let's be real, everybody has troubles.
00:52:36Rich, poor, black, white, man, woman.
00:52:41I don't care who you are.
00:52:43You're going through some kind of struggle right now.
00:52:46And I think it's good for us to remind each other that we have him by our side and that he's merciful and that he will get us through this.
00:52:59He will get us out of Egypt into the promised land.
00:53:02But we've got to be disciplined and suffer a little bit before we get there.
00:53:08Yeah.
00:53:08And that discipline and suffering doesn't do its work without humility, willingness to go through it.
00:53:12And I was just looking through all of these old commentaries I've got here in ESWORD.
00:53:18And just about every one of them agrees that, I mean, they're all saying that the riches spoken of here probably isn't material because apparently nobody sees that.
00:53:30Nobody sees humility leading to great wealth in the material world.
00:53:34But I think, was it Matthew Henry or one of them, said that it's the riches that are listed in these specific Proverbs.
00:53:46So a good name and personal security and a happier life and successful, healthy children, that these are the riches that you gain from humility and fear of the Lord.
00:54:02And I can get with that.
00:54:05Just reading that one proverb, it doesn't really sound like that's what it's saying.
00:54:08But those are certainly forms of riches and they are right there.
00:54:12That proverb is right in the middle of all of those other things.
00:54:15So that makes a certain amount of sense.
00:54:17But you know what, Steph, when you don't even get that sometimes, it's like, okay, I don't have no material riches, but yet I don't, all these things that you mentioned, you don't even get that either.
00:54:29And maybe you're short-sighted if you don't, because I think that there's so many good things that the Father gives you.
00:54:37Like if you're breathing, if you're alive, you wake up today, that's enough right there, period.
00:54:43And I know, I get it.
00:54:44I've been there before where waking up just feels like complete misery, you know, where you're so negative and so clouded with the heavy yoke that the world has put upon you that you don't think anything's going right for you.
00:54:56You know, you're like, man, my wife doesn't like me, my children doesn't like me, my boss doesn't like me.
00:55:02Like you start going through the line of people that you think are out there to get you the whole time.
00:55:07But it's, at that moment is when you got to be reminded of him, that he loves you.
00:55:17When the whole world is against you, that's the one you can count on is him.
00:55:24You know, like you would tell me about work, you know, it's like, you know, when you feel like you're being pushed to your limit, that's when you know you're right where you're supposed to be.
00:55:32Or that's, that becomes a challenge that you can pass and learn and stuff like that.
00:55:37And it's the same thing.
00:55:38That's what I'm saying.
00:55:39Like, we just got to change our thoughts and paradigm on this to thinking that he may be disciplining us, but maybe he's just refining us.
00:55:48Right.
00:55:49And I guess they both, you know, you can see those both ways, but, you know, man, who knows what he's doing in your life?
00:55:59Who knows?
00:56:00And you probably won't know too much later.
00:56:02If you go back and think about your life and think where you've gone through, what you've been through and the things you have gone through and look at it now, you get it.
00:56:10You're like, oh, if I would have never gone through those things in my life, I wouldn't be where I am today.
00:56:17So think about that, what you're going through now as well.
00:56:2020 years from now, you're going to look back and say, if I would have gone through those things, I wouldn't be where I'm at today.
00:56:26So you've got to remember to stay in that straight and narrow path and in his righteousness and in his hope and mercy and grace, because eventually you'll see it go.
00:56:36Especially now, it looks dark.
00:56:38I don't see anything good coming out of this generation.
00:56:42But that doesn't mean you quit.
00:56:44That doesn't mean you quit.
00:56:45You've got to keep pushing and doing the right thing and still, you know, telling these kids from these generations that, listen, this is the right way to go.
00:56:53Now, every single day, if I get a chance to speak to somebody by the word of God, I'll take that chance.
00:57:00And who knows the difference you're making?
00:57:02He's seeing it from above, like you said, right from above and looking down.
00:57:08He works outside time and space.
00:57:09He has this all figured out.
00:57:11We don't need to be worried about, you know, what's going to happen or not.
00:57:14We just know what's going to happen by faith.
00:57:16Right?
00:57:17Not calling it out to the universe or some crazy thing like that.
00:57:21It's not.
00:57:22The scriptures tell you.
00:57:23We already know who's going to end.
00:57:25He wins.
00:57:26So let's just sit back, relax, and, you know, and I'm talking to myself about this.
00:57:32You know, I'm not even talking to you guys.
00:57:33I'm talking to myself because I struggle with it, too, big time.
00:57:36And in total, when you're looking at the Proverbs, I think it's saying, I got this, trust in me, it's going to be okay, this world's difficult, but you got me on your side.
00:57:55And that's a good thing.
00:57:57Now, the minutia of Proverbs can be looked at, not saying manipulated, but certainly argued so as to come up with some sort of unique doctrine or dogma that may or may not be what he's advocating for, but the totality of it is trust in him.
00:58:19And that's sort of what you, just piggybacking on what you said, Carlos, because I, like I said, you could go through each one of these and, and create a, you know, name it, claim it type of scenario or some sort of doctrine that's not necessarily what his intent was, but holistically it's, no, he's got it.
00:58:42So I am a little guy here and he's big, he's got the whole thing in his hand, so to speak.
00:58:53So that's it.
00:58:56And the Proverbs are, are principles and not, not physical laws of the universe.
00:59:02So these things will be true in, you know, in general, in the normal person's life, but there are exceptions.
00:59:11And there's always somebody like Job who just breaks all the rules.
00:59:15And, you know, what you're saying that God is still on your side.
00:59:18That was even true for Job, despite every, you know, he was a wise man, righteous, you know, he was a great guy and everything bad in the world happened to him.
00:59:28And he doesn't fit into the Proverbs anywhere.
00:59:31But God was still there.
00:59:33Although he was restored in the end.
00:59:37Yeah.
00:59:37Didn't Job fail in one thing, and we can go through Job too, but didn't he fail and not discipline his children?
00:59:45Like his children were pretty unrighteous.
00:59:47I don't remember that, but it's possible.
00:59:50I'm not sure.
00:59:51Just asking.
00:59:52Okay.
00:59:52Yeah, I don't know.
00:59:54The one thing that I remember that he did fail at was for a little bit, he questioned God.
00:59:59And, you know, we got like five chapters of God saying, who do you think you are?
01:00:04And some of my favorite, this is one of my favorite parts of the Bible.
01:00:09All right.
01:00:10So we're still on a fence.
01:00:12Who else is offended?
01:00:14Yeah.
01:00:14I was number four.
01:00:17And we touched on that one.
01:00:18Verse four.
01:00:19That's the one that offended me.
01:00:23So I think we're all in the same understanding of, we get pretty upset how it looks like unrighteous people just get away with everything.
01:00:34And, you know, the horrible things that happen to the people that don't even know God.
01:00:42They're just innocent people.
01:00:43So, yeah.
01:00:45Yeah.
01:00:46All right.
01:00:47Well, let's move on to the next question, if I can find it.
01:00:52There we go.
01:00:54Let's go back to what speaks to you.
01:00:56Anybody have one of these proverbs that really stands out and resonates with you?
01:01:01We've talked about the ones that are anti-resonating.
01:01:05The one that resonated for me was nine.
01:01:09Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.
01:01:14I just, I, for me, the word bountiful really spoke to me because I, I tend to see, I tend to view everything as the glass half full.
01:01:26And, and I tend to come from a scarcity mindset.
01:01:30And I don't know if that's just my upbringing and, which is odd because I was always very blessed.
01:01:38But my father was an accountant and just viewed everything from, you know, there's never, there's not enough.
01:01:49So maybe that's just a retraining for me because I'm thankfully married to a person who, a man who is very positive and sees the glasses half full.
01:02:00And so I'm a total contrast to him where he sees everything from a positive standpoint and sees the silver linings and I don't.
01:02:10And I, I really saw this as being like, okay, to come from a place of abundance and belief that, you know, there will always be enough because that's what God is promised.
01:02:22And to be able to see from a, with a bountiful vision and be able to just give generously from that standpoint.
01:02:33And knowing that there's, that that's what we're being called to do is to, to share and charity and to give of ourselves.
01:02:44So that really spoke to me.
01:02:46That's good.
01:02:47It is important to have that contrast.
01:02:49It's nice to have somebody who compliments you instead of pulling you even further into your own holes, abyss.
01:02:59Yes.
01:02:59I need retraining in how to have different vision of things whenever they're happening.
01:03:06Yeah, I grew up in a, I mean, we were never poor, but you know, I, I'm the youngest of six in, uh, uh, my parents never were never wealthy, never had a lot, but we always had enough.
01:03:21And, you know, I never really learned much about managing money or anything like that, but I've never really worried about money either.
01:03:28It's never been, there were a few years where, you know, there were medical bills and all kinds of negative stuff going on.
01:03:36And I was worried about everything.
01:03:38And, you know, that was a 10 year period.
01:03:41That was definitely the worst 10 years of my life.
01:03:43But for the most part, it's nice just not to, not to think about it.
01:03:48It would be great to be rich sometimes I think, but it's also nice just not to really think about money too much.
01:03:56I think it's interesting in this verse that, you know, this idea of the bountiful eye or the good eye, you know, when Jesus talks about, I can't remember the place where essentially there's this idea of a good eye and an evil eye.
01:04:11And the evil eye isn't like, you know, somebody casting a spell on you.
01:04:15It's really, yeah, it's being greedy.
01:04:18Like you're trying to pull stuff out of the world to yourself instead of trying to give to the world.
01:04:23And when you're always looking for somebody to bless, somebody that you can help, this doesn't say that you're going to get rich.
01:04:31It says you're going to be blessed because you share your bread with the poor.
01:04:35It's the sharing that is blessing you.
01:04:37Now, we do know that, I mean, there's this idea of the law of reciprocity, whether you chalk that up to laws of the universe or whether it's just the way that God arranges things.
01:04:46Or whether it's this cascade of events, you know, you're good to somebody who remembers you and other people observe and they're good to you in turn, whatever it is.
01:04:55Because when you tend to be generous with other people who can't pay you back, you, things manage to work out for you.
01:05:03You know, that people who are generous that way tend to get wealthier for whatever reason.
01:05:08And so you do get blessed materially, but that's not even what this proverb is saying.
01:05:13So you get blessed in all kinds of ways.
01:05:14Like Solomon asked for wisdom and God gave him riches too.
01:05:18You're generous with the poor, not expecting anything back.
01:05:21And you get stuff back anyways.
01:05:22Yeah, I think, I don't know if it's in the Proverbs or the Psalms, there's somewhere that says that, maybe Solomon says it in another book, but he, it says, you know, give me neither riches or make me poor.
01:05:40Because if I'm rich, I'm going to forget about you.
01:05:43And if I'm poor, then I'm going to steal.
01:05:45Can't remember the exact one.
01:05:47Sounds familiar.
01:05:47Yeah.
01:05:49And it's kind of, that's kind of been my mindset.
01:05:51Ever since I read that, it's kind of been my mindset.
01:05:56I mean, I'm definitely not a rich person by any means, especially with the imagination.
01:06:00But as I've progressed in resources, just by default, really, just by getting better at your job, looking for opportunities and so on.
01:06:11But then you get more stuff.
01:06:13And that brings even more stressors and things like that.
01:06:17And, you know, there's, they say that after, in America, after 70 grand or something like that, it doesn't make any changes, you're not any happier or anything like that.
01:06:26And, and I've mentioned this before, I remember when I used to be, I was waiting tables, making $20,000 a year.
01:06:32I think I was happier then, that I am now, you know.
01:06:35Now, obviously, I'm happier that I have a family.
01:06:37I'm happy that, that I have the father in my life.
01:06:41But it's a different kind of, there's less trust, just to be honest, when you're by yourself and you're just waiting tables and you're just feeding one person, there's just less trust.
01:06:52But when you're, have more responsibilities and more people are looking at you for resources and leadership and things like that, you tag on more.
01:07:01And that's, you know, that comes, comes with more responsibility, but, you know, I grew up in a third world country, so I've seen, like, real poverty, real poverty, kids, like, selling chiclets on the street at 11 o'clock at night, when they should be home, sleeping, resting.
01:07:19And it used to break my heart all the time.
01:07:21So, now, I may not be rich, but I look back at that poverty that I've seen before in third world countries, and I'm like, I'm good.
01:07:30I don't, I don't, I'm way beyond, and I do give, and I give as much as I can, but I think that I've been a lot wiser now, and who to give to, and things like that.
01:07:45I had family that came down from Honduras recently, and we were talking about how even they own a few restaurants, and they have difficulty finding people to work for them.
01:07:58And we came to the conclusion that the reason why they're poor is out of ignorance and laziness.
01:08:10It's not even resources.
01:08:13Like, they're willing to pay them, but, you know, they, sometimes they don't even want to work.
01:08:17And they would just, they'd rather live in their simpleness or poverty or whatever you want to call it.
01:08:23And sometimes it's a choice for whatever X, Y, Z reason.
01:08:28And I think there's very few people that are actually poor out of certain consequences.
01:08:37Like, if you live in this country, if you're poor, it's probably out of poor mental health, maybe.
01:08:42You know, you went through some kind of trauma or abuse or, you know, drugs somehow got involved and blah, blah, blah.
01:08:50Or some people are just lazy and don't want to work.
01:08:54So.
01:08:55We do have a lot of abundance in this country.
01:08:58I didn't grow up in a third world country, but I think a lot of America would have thought it was a third world country.
01:09:05You know, I grew up in kind of right on the edge of what you'd call a ghetto.
01:09:10And, you know, it wasn't big city like Chicago, but, you know, straight across Illinois in the Quad Cities.
01:09:17And it was a poor neighborhood and pretty rough.
01:09:23And so I was the skinny little white boy in the black neighborhood.
01:09:27And that was not really very good all the time.
01:09:33But I think growing up around that kind of poverty and just the squalor that some people live in, and, you know, kids, of course, they don't have a lot of choice in where they live.
01:09:45And it's the adults and their theories, a lifelong series of bad decisions.
01:09:52And like you say, a lot of times mental health, things that are out of people's control.
01:09:55But for the most part, people are in that kind of poverty because of bad choices.
01:10:01And it's awful.
01:10:03I mean, it is really depressing.
01:10:05And I think that may be one of the contributing factors to me, just not worrying about money, because I've always had enough.
01:10:13Never had to worry about it.
01:10:14I've never been in those people's shoes, even though I lived in the middle of it.
01:10:18They were asking for your lunch money, Jay, when you're walking down the street?
01:10:22Oh, yeah, they were asking politely for my lunch money.
01:10:25Fortunately, I had a big brother who walked me to school a lot of times.
01:10:29Verse 29, I like a lot.
01:10:34My brother-in-law once said, we were talking about the sluggard, the people that are lazy.
01:10:39He said that many people don't understand the joy of work.
01:10:45And when I read this, do you see a man skillful in his work?
01:10:51He will stand before kings.
01:10:52He will not stand before obscure men.
01:10:55Now, that skillful could be a number of things.
01:10:57Let's say an artist, somebody that's very competent.
01:11:01When you see somebody that's striving towards a mastery of their skill, I find that to be very encouraging.
01:11:13And I admire it very much.
01:11:18You know, it really doesn't matter what that skill is.
01:11:22It's the fact that they are striving for excellence.
01:11:26It's just something I appreciate.
01:11:28And, you know, when I see they're written down here, I get it to a degree.
01:11:33It makes sense to me.
01:11:34Yeah, this is another one that's on a continuum where if you define kings very loosely, then this proverb is usually true.
01:11:43You know, in our world, we don't have kings, but we do have CEOs and mayors and people with influence.
01:11:49And if you are very good at your job, get noticed or, you know, whatever it is you do in life, people will notice.
01:11:57And depending on what it is you're really good at, you know, more powerful people will notice or less powerful people just kind of depends.
01:12:05I mean, you can be the world's greatest plumber.
01:12:07Is, is the mayor of Houston going to know?
01:12:11Probably not.
01:12:13But people will know and you will be able to demand much higher rates for your work.
01:12:18On the other hand, if you're a great artist, real kings will notice.
01:12:24And unfortunately, for some, for some types of art, you know, things like, like literature or, you know, philosophy, it may not be kings in your lifetime.
01:12:33But eventually, if, if you create something that lasts, people will notice, people will know your name.
01:12:41Right.
01:12:42Yeah, that, the instructions of, I keep looking up in this side of my screen because that's where I've got this Egyptian guy's name and I have to read it every time.
01:12:52Diamond Centipede?
01:12:54Yeah, that guy.
01:12:55I'm an Amapa.
01:12:55One of the things that, that his instructions talk about is a, you know, a prudent man versus a man who's driven by his passions.
01:13:05And that's in this proverb, you know, that's in this chapter too, where Solomon is talking about, you know, don't hang around with the angry man because you're going to be like him.
01:13:13It's going to cause all these problems for you.
01:13:15So, I'm going to Moppy says a very similar thing, but he goes into a long, you know, this long analog or metaphor.
01:13:24And he says that, you know, the man who's owned by his passions is like a tree that's planted indoors.
01:13:31And it doesn't grow much roots.
01:13:32It doesn't get very big.
01:13:33And pretty soon it's chopped down by the carpenter and made into some disposable little thing that's going to break and somebody throws away or it goes into the fire.
01:13:41A prudent man is like a tree who grows in a field and grows deep roots, grows tall, produces fruit all its life and produces great shade.
01:13:50And finally, when it's reached, it's the end of its life.
01:13:53It's chopped down and it's made into fine furniture.
01:13:57He actually says idols, but it's made into things that people are going to put in places of honor in their house.
01:14:03Because it's got, you know, tight grain, large, large pieces of lumber that you can make into furniture or sculptures or whatever.
01:14:14And so, this man, even though he's dead, will still be remembered long past his lifetime.
01:14:20And even if people don't remember who it was who created these things, his impact will outlive him.
01:14:25And I think that's one thing that we miss a lot is that the idea of our name being something far greater than a birth certificate being our entire character.
01:14:38If you are really good at what you do and you give it to people, you influence a lot of people, that's going to have a cascading effect down through history.
01:14:48And even if nobody knows who it was that created this particular situation, your name is still in that thing, even if nobody sees it.
01:14:57It's a human need, a human desire.
01:15:01What is on everybody's grave?
01:15:03An epitaph.
01:15:05It's what I want to be remembered for, right?
01:15:07Yeah.
01:15:08Loving mother and son.
01:15:11Yeah.
01:15:11I have some ideas what I'd want to be remembered for, but I'll keep those for my tombstone.
01:15:19I had one that what speaks to you, I put verse 10, drive out a scoffer and strife will go out and quarreling and abuse will cease.
01:15:29Crawls on the internet.
01:15:32Can't stand them.
01:15:34I, you know, I'm on just about every social media site there is.
01:15:38That's not really true.
01:15:39I'm on most of the big ones, but I have a, kind of my policy is if somebody has honest questions, then I will do my best to dialogue with them somehow.
01:15:52But if the second I think that they are trolling me or they're just trying to cause a problem, I will either mute or block them depending on, you know, what sort of person they are.
01:16:03If they're just annoying, I usually just mute them.
01:16:06But if they're actually trying to cause problems, then I block them because I don't want their, their comments being in my feed when other people read what I posted.
01:16:16And that's reduced so much stress in my life.
01:16:18I don't argue with these people anymore.
01:16:21Just press the dust off my shoes and move on.
01:16:24Because there are people out there who want to hear what I have to tell them.
01:16:27I don't need to mess with these other, these scoffers.
01:16:31I think that's one of the best lessons you can learn in this book.
01:16:37You know, especially I think that once you have, you show in your life and your heart and your mind, especially at the very beginning or at certain phases of your life, you get really excited and you want to tell the world.
01:16:50You know, it, you're going to come around people that don't want to hear it and yet they push and push and push, you know, you can tend to push certain people.
01:17:00I don't have, that's not my personality, but, you know, some people tend to push and like try to shove the word of God in somebody and all that does is really push them away.
01:17:08They're just not ready to hear it at that point, you know?
01:17:11So, you know, hopefully what you've done is put a seed in their heart and hopefully it falls in good soil and hopefully grow.
01:17:20But yeah, if they're going back and forth with you, that's probably the best thing to do is just not say anything and not argue.
01:17:28And I've learned, I've used that more and more throughout the years.
01:17:32I don't know if it's wisdom or it's just age.
01:17:35I don't know.
01:17:36Patience for it.
01:17:36I just don't.
01:17:37Yeah, I think I've heard that's true.
01:17:39As you get older, your patience, you know, comes shorter.
01:17:43And I don't think it's because you're not patient with certain people, but I think, you know, like strife, you know, you just patience for foolishness.
01:17:51Right.
01:17:52Your patience for foolishness.
01:17:53Right.
01:17:53You're more patience and things that are good, you know, but not patient things that are foolish.
01:17:59That's right.
01:18:00Who else has one that spoke to you?
01:18:0227 for me, it says, if you have nothing with which to pay, why should your bed be taken from you, taken from under you?
01:18:12And again, sometimes you fall in hard times.
01:18:16And it's amazing that back then you can live in a culture where people understood those things.
01:18:25And I'm not saying that the whole time the Israelites lived this way, but, you know, at some point they, you know, they had their times where they were living in righteousness.
01:18:35And I would love to, like, teletransport myself back to those times where people were at their peak of relationship with the father.
01:18:46I would love to know what it's like to walk around, you know, neighborhoods, leaving your door open, not worrying about anybody coveting your stuff.
01:18:56You know, seeing people in community and loving each other and having grace and mercy for each other and getting along.
01:19:03You know, how beautiful would that be to live that?
01:19:05You know, it's probably the closest you had to heaven.
01:19:08And it's nice to know that if you fall in hard times, for whatever reason, health reasons, I mean, you can go broke in America because you have a $500,000 medical bill.
01:19:22That's not so hard.
01:19:23If you have a home and you lose your job, you have no control over that.
01:19:30It could happen.
01:19:31You could do that.
01:19:32But they'll take everything.
01:19:34They'll take every penny from you in this culture.
01:19:38They don't care.
01:19:39And it's nice to know that, you know, in that culture, I don't know if that's, I don't know if it's in Torah that, I think I've seen where there's measures in place to where if you're going through hard times, there's some kind of help there.
01:19:58And I'm not sure about, I don't know if he's referring to this in this verse, but it's just nice to know that, you know, how much peace you will have in your life.
01:20:07If you know that, if you know that, well, if I get sick or something happens, I know that I have my community behind me to help me through this.
01:20:17And I know we have each other here, but our community is so small that you fall on $500,000 worth of health insurance.
01:20:25Because, man, who knows?
01:20:28But back then, you know, you lived in the land of milk and honey.
01:20:32And if you went through hard times, people at their peak, I know that they went through idolatry, but at their peak, it's nice to think that bad is not going to be taken away from you because you're going through hard times.
01:20:46Or after seven years, right, you get your stuff back.
01:20:50How cool is that?
01:20:52Yeah, one of the rules about borrowing and lending in Torah is that if you take a pledge from somebody, like collateral, depending on what kind of collateral it is, you have to give it back to them when they need it.
01:21:07So, like, it specifically says a cloak.
01:21:09And, you know, in that culture, you didn't have a whole lot of changes of clothes.
01:21:12You had, you know, a set of clothes, and you had a cloak that you wore over it.
01:21:17If it's cold, and you've borrowed money from somebody, and you've given them your cloak and pledge, you can go to them at the end of the workday and say, hey, I need my cloak for the night.
01:21:27And you get it back, and then you bring it back to them in the morning.
01:21:30That would be a real pain, but that is one of the rules, and you're not allowed to take advantage of people like that.
01:21:37Of course, you've got to know what kind of culture you live in.
01:21:39And if you do live in a culture where they will take everything from you, you'll avoid this situation in the first place.
01:21:46You know, the prudent avoids danger and bad investments and bad debt, especially debt.
01:21:54I mean, that's one that the prudent avoid at all costs.
01:21:58Yeah.
01:21:58Well, I guess in that culture, I mean, verse 26 says, be not one of those who give pledges, who put up security for debts.
01:22:04You know, so, you know, even then, they're warning you of those things, you know, so it went both ways.
01:22:10And so there's, you know, there was foolish people out there, again, you know, just like now with where they get themselves to gambling debt and things like that.
01:22:20And he's like, well, don't put up security for those people.
01:22:23But, you know, for somebody that just, you know, lost their husband or the widow, right?
01:22:28I know there's measures in place for the widows, you know?
01:22:31That's what I talk to my wife all the time.
01:22:36It's like, think about it.
01:22:38You, right now, somewhere in America, there's a wife and children that have just lost their husband.
01:22:47They're just barely making it, right?
01:22:49And now that he's gone, what's gone?
01:22:53You better hope that widow has a good mother and father.
01:22:59But it's possible that they don't.
01:23:02So what happens?
01:23:03The mother goes away, the children go to the state, and that's it.
01:23:07Generation gets lost, you know, right there.
01:23:10So it goes back to what people that don't know.
01:23:14If you never read the Torah, if you never read the scripture, if you never read the instructions of God, I'm like, listen.
01:23:19I said, if you go, people misunderstand things.
01:23:22They look at that the man owns the woman, and they think about slavery and the improper content of it, context of it.
01:23:31And honestly, if you go read it carefully and you think through it, it's set up really nicely to protect everyone to live a very good life.
01:23:42Not that everybody's going to be rich in big houses and driving nice cars, but if everybody does the way the father tells you to do it perfectly, it's better than any other way of living that I've ever read anywhere.
01:23:59Any kind of ism that you can think of.
01:24:01Yeah.
01:24:01Everybody has the means to feed themselves.
01:24:04And if they don't, then it's because they chose not to.
01:24:07Right.
01:24:07And the way it's set up, there's no reason to not have something.
01:24:12As long as you do and follow the instructions that he tells you to do to a T, there should not be a reason to ever go through anything.
01:24:23But what would happen, if I understand, if it goes cyclical, just like happened to this nation, right?
01:24:30Went through a lot of pain and suffering, and then we got wealthy, you know, and then we just became overly abundant of things.
01:24:39And then we forgot about him.
01:24:40And then we gave ourselves to idolatry.
01:24:43Yes, it's not a God or a figurine that you may think.
01:24:48Some people do, actually.
01:24:50But the God of fortune maybe became our God, you know, the mighty dollar.
01:24:57You know, we forgot about everybody else and just thought about making money, and we forgot about our children.
01:25:02We forgot about, you know, walking with them and giving them the word of God daily.
01:25:06And then that's how it started breaking down.
01:25:08So, you know, he's like, okay, well, I'm just going to give you guys away to the things that you love more than me, which is money.
01:25:17That's why Americans, yeah, we're super abundant, but we're also overworked.
01:25:21We do more pharmaceuticals than everybody else.
01:25:25We deal with more anxiety and depression and everything else than anybody else.
01:25:30We have probably the highest rate of divorce of every nation.
01:25:33I mean, you can keep going on and on suicide rates, gun violence.
01:25:37You can keep going on and on and on.
01:25:40So, there's a price to pay for the so-called riches that, you know, other countries are envious about.
01:25:48So, when and if we ever collapse and somebody else takes the reign and they become rich, they'll know what's up.
01:25:56Yep.
01:25:57Yeah, that's that.
01:25:59Those different kinds of wealth and poverty, again.
01:26:02There's a material wealth and there's a spiritual poverty.
01:26:04There's a material wealth and there's a spiritual poverty.
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