- 2 days ago
Proverbs 17 contains several connections to the story of Jacob and Esau, wisdom on family peace and dynamics, watching the tongue, and impetuous fools vs considerate wise men. The Common Sense Bible Study crew discusses these topics and more in this video.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
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From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Send me a friend request on The Torah Network: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
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LearningTranscript
00:00Proverbs 17. Better is a dry morsel with quiet than a house full of feasting with strife.
00:08A servant who deals wisely will rule over a son who acts shamefully and will share the inheritance
00:14as one of the brothers. The crucible is for silver and the furnace is for gold and the Lord
00:19tests hearts. An evildoer listens to wicked lips and a liar gives ear to a mischievous tongue.
00:25Whoever mocks the poor insults his maker. He who is glad at calamity will not go unpunished.
00:31Grandchildren are the crown of the aged and the glory of children is their father's.
00:36Fine speech is not becoming a fool, still less is false speech to a prince.
00:41A bribe is like a magic stone in the eyes of the one who gives it. Wherever he turns, he prospers.
00:47Whoever covers an offense seeks love, but he who repeats a matter separates close friends.
00:52A rebuke goes deeper into a man of understanding than a hundred blows into a fool.
00:57An evil man seeks only rebellion and a cruel messenger will be sent against him.
01:03Let a man meet a she-bear robbed of her cubs rather than a fool in his folly.
01:07If anyone returns evil for good, evil will not depart from his house.
01:12The beginning of strife is like letting out water, so quit before the quarrel breaks out.
01:16He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.
01:23Why should a fool have money in his hand to buy wisdom when he has no sense?
01:27A friend loves at all times and a brother is born for adversity.
01:31One who lacks sense gives a pledge and puts up security in the presence of his neighbor.
01:35Whoever loves transgression loves strife.
01:41He who makes his door high seeks destruction.
01:44A man of crooked heart does not discover good, and one with a dishonest tongue falls into calamity.
01:50He who sires a fool gets himself sorrow, and the father of a fool has no joy.
01:55A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
01:59The wicked accepts a bribe in secret to pervert the ways of justice.
02:07The discerning sets his face toward wisdom, but the eye of a fool are on the ends of the earth.
02:12A foolish son is a grief to his father and bitterness to her who bore him.
02:18To impose a fine on a righteous man is not good, nor to strike the noble for their uprightness.
02:23Whoever restrains his words has knowledge, and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.
02:31Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise.
02:33When he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.
02:37There are some fairly famous proverbs in this chapter,
02:40and there are some other ones that aren't nearly as famous,
02:44but are also pretty profound that deserve to be talked about.
02:48I put a subtitle on this one as the, of collateral damage of Esau,
02:53because there are several proverbs that really seem to be very closely connected to Esau,
03:00and especially things where it talks about parents.
03:04Remember that Esau's other name is Edom, which means red.
03:08And this is thought to be associated with his hot temper.
03:12And so that's got to come up in these proverbs too.
03:15And there are the four questions, and we're going to talk about these proverbs,
03:19especially with an eye towards drawing out those proverbs that speak to us,
03:25that puzzle us, surprise us, and even offends us.
03:30What speaks to me?
03:31There was one, there was actually a lot of proverbs in this chapter that really spoke to me,
03:36but two stood out, and the first one is verse three.
03:40The crucible is for silver, and the furnace is for gold, and the Lord tests hearts.
03:47I heard a couple of commentaries where the teacher was talking about how God can see your heart.
03:54And I think in chapter 16, we talked about another proverb where it does talk about God sees the heart.
04:00Man looks on the outside, God sees what's going on on the inside,
04:03and you can't hide what you've done or who you are from God.
04:07But they interpreted this passage the same way.
04:12But that doesn't really connect with the idea of the crucible for silver and the furnace for gold.
04:18These things are like trials for those metals.
04:23They purify them, they put them through the fire.
04:26And that's what the tests that God gives us are for.
04:30He gives us trials and troubles in life.
04:32Frequently, they are deliberate, sent by God, set up for us to go through, to refine us,
04:39to make us stronger, more faithful, to teach us lessons that we wouldn't learn otherwise.
04:46So when it says that Yahweh tests hearts, it's not saying that He can see what's inside of them,
04:54and He knows what they're like, testing them to see what they're made of.
04:57That's not the point.
04:59It's talking about the furnace.
05:01God puts hearts through trials in order to make them better, to purify them.
05:08God is the crucible of a righteous heart.
05:13It's like the story of the Hebrews.
05:16God didn't send them into Egypt because they were sinners.
05:20He sent them into Egypt because He needed them to become a nation.
05:25And putting them under the fire of oppression in Egypt is what created them as a nation.
05:31It drew them together, gave them a common culture.
05:35They made an effort over centuries to separate themselves from the rest of the world
05:40and not be absorbed into Egypt like so many other cultures were.
05:43And then He brought them out into the wilderness, subjected them to test after test after test.
05:49And some of these tests were to see whether they would keep His commandments or not.
05:54Like the first one, after they crossed the Red Sea, God sent them the manna.
05:58And He said, through this, we're going to see whether or not you're going to keep my commandments.
06:03And of course, they couldn't.
06:04You know, some did, some didn't.
06:05But as a nation, they didn't do it.
06:08And so the next 40 years were spent turning them into a people who would be capable of keeping His commandments because they understood it.
06:15Of course, we know from Scripture that they never did keep His commandments for very long.
06:22But that's still part of the process.
06:25If the Hebrews, if Israel had become perfect just through those 40 years in the wilderness,
06:31then the whole story would have been over.
06:33There would be no need for a Savior if people are perfect.
06:37So those trials continue until we are perfect, and we will never be perfect in this life.
06:42So we can expect trials throughout our life.
06:45That's how God works in us, to make us better and stronger people.
06:48What about you, Daniel?
06:50Was there a particular proverb that really spoke to you?
06:53This one right here that you're mentioning?
06:56It caught my eye as well.
06:58It caught my eye big time.
06:59There's a psalm, I think it says,
07:01In the Furnace of Much Affliction.
07:04It's a Christian song, I think it is, based on a psalm.
07:08It says,
07:08For iron, I'll give you silver.
07:10And for brass, I'll give you gold.
07:13But something else came to mind also.
07:15It kind of puzzled me.
07:16The crucible was for silver, and the furnace was for gold.
07:19You'd think it'd be the reverse.
07:21The crucible, if I remember correctly what a crucible is, it's a big melting, smelting thing for metal.
07:30If I remember correctly, silver melts pretty quickly.
07:33And gold, I think, takes a little bit longer than silver does.
07:37If I remember that correctly, it may be the reverse.
07:41But I just thought that was interesting.
07:43The pattern for silver and gold throughout the Bible is used several times.
07:48Silver is usually accommodated with purity.
07:50Like the blood.
07:53Like pure.
07:55Because Yeshua was portrayed for 30 pieces of silver.
08:00So it was blood money that he was portrayed for.
08:04But silver is usually a symbolic picture of purity and blood.
08:09And gold, of course, you know, was the image, is what deity of God was usually portrayed as.
08:17You know, the ark was made of gold, had gold overlaid.
08:21And the altar of incense, the minera, was beat out of one piece of gold.
08:29Gold is used a lot.
08:31And he's, the silver is a different level from the gold.
08:36From what I can see here, he's definitely changed.
08:39Casting hearts, obedience is, I think, one of the key things.
08:44So when God gives you something to beat out or to fashion, you do it like, what's his name in the Torah?
08:52He had a weird name, began with a B, I think it was.
08:56Bezalel, I think you're thinking of.
08:58Bezalel, that's it.
08:59Yeah, thank you.
09:00He was in charge of fashioning some key items for the Mishkan.
09:06Yeah, he made the ark.
09:07Yes, yes.
09:10And he, I think he also made the menorah, the minera, I think so.
09:15Yeah.
09:16But I'm not sure about that.
09:19But I just know that where it says he tests hearts, he's testing our obedience.
09:24So these metals are being forged.
09:29Like, for example, Daniel in the furnace, they got thrown into a fiery furnace because they wouldn't bow down to a statue of gold.
09:38Nebuchadnezzar's image.
09:39So Yeshua refuses the Satan and goes through the, he denies Satan his, you know, in the wilderness and ends up being betrayed for silver.
09:52And then Daniel is thrown into a furnace because he wouldn't bow down to an image of gold.
09:58So he's testing, it's definitely a symbol of testing.
10:03I think it's symbolic of definitely testing there.
10:06Yeah, you know, I've always associated, you know, silver with, you know, definitely with blood, with atonement and redemption.
10:15Gold more with purity and especially righteousness.
10:19Yeah.
10:19And perfection, you know, the divinity is definitely spot on because it's, I mean, there's only one who's perfect.
10:27Yeah.
10:27And so there's only one who's pure.
10:29And I think this really does go well with this week's Torah reading because we're starting into, this is Ruma Terima talking about the God's instructions for building the tabernacle and all of the things in it.
10:42And I think it's a few weeks further on when we actually get to where Bezalel actually makes these things.
10:48So God gives all the instructions first, and then we've got to deal with the golden calf.
10:52And then Bezalel makes the, makes the ark and the showbread table and the menorah.
10:58And, you know, one of the curious things about these things is that they're made of beaten gold.
11:03None of these things are smelted or molded.
11:06You know, they, they heat in, refine the gold and the silver.
11:11And even the acacia wood, that's refined, not in the same way.
11:16It takes a lot more time.
11:18You know, I haven't seen an acacia tree, like a Sinai acacia tree in real life.
11:24I've seen pictures.
11:25And they're a lot like mesquite trees that grow in the American Southwest where they're kind of scrubby looking things.
11:33They grow in the desert.
11:35They're scraggly.
11:36They don't grow big unless you cultivate them.
11:39Now, a mesquite tree can become a very big tree, and you can get a lot of good lumber out of it.
11:44And the wood is very hard, and it's very attractive wood.
11:48But you have to cultivate it over many years to get, you know, a trunk that you can cut into lumber.
11:57And the same thing is with acacia.
11:58A wild acacia tree, I mean, unless it's growing under perfect conditions, it's generally not going to grow big enough that you can cut planks out of it.
12:07So the acacia wood had to be cultivated.
12:10The silver and the gold had to be refined.
12:12And once it was refined, it wasn't poured into a mold in order to create the menorah, the plates for the outside of the ark.
12:22It had to be hammered.
12:24And especially the menorah, they took, I don't know how much gold it was.
12:30I mean, the menorah is a pretty big chunk of gold, but it had to be one solid piece of gold.
12:35And then it was hammered into shape.
12:37And it was hammered into these seven branches, like a single trunk and a base with all these flower petals and details on it.
12:44And that would take a long time, a lot of work, and a lot of hammering.
12:50And the menorah is the only one of these things that's made of solid gold.
12:55The showbread table and the ark are gold-plated wood.
13:00So there's a wood core and then, you know, hammered gold on the outside.
13:03But the menorah is pure gold.
13:06And that's the only thing it is.
13:08And this, I think this is a picture of pure righteousness doesn't just happen.
13:14It's something that God shapes over time.
13:17It's like this heart in verse 3 that God takes a lump of gold, and maybe it's gold ore, and then he refines it.
13:29And then he hammers it into shape to something useful that is not just beautiful to look at, but creates light.
13:37It becomes the light of the world, but it can only do that if it undergoes long, arduous trials to get there.
13:45I think that's a really cool picture of how God works.
13:49And I think if we looked at all of the elements of the tabernacle, we would see elements of the life of a believer.
13:56However, you know, the whole thing is a model of a person, and it's also a model of a family, and it's a model of God.
14:03All of these things kind of, it's like a gemstone that if you hold it up into the light, you can see one facet.
14:09But you can turn it a little bit and see another facet, and the tabernacle is, it's like a model of all of these things all at the same time.
14:19You just turn it and look at it from another angle, and you get a whole other picture.
14:22But I think you could probably spend all lifetime studying just the tabernacle or the temple and all of the things in it, and all of the allegorical meanings of everything.
14:32Oh, yes, indeed.
14:33Okay, all right.
14:35There was another one.
14:36Verse seven.
14:37That was pretty cool.
14:39Fine speech is not becoming to a fool.
14:42Still less is false speech to a prince.
14:45When a fool starts pontificating, and I pontificate a lot, and it makes me worry sometimes.
14:51Wiser people watch this, and they shake their heads and then ignore him, or else they wonder what he's scheming.
14:58What is he up to?
14:59And, but if a well-respected person says something foolish or dishonest, people are shocked, and good people are sickened by something like that.
15:11It's a betrayal of their trust in that person.
15:14Everybody expects a fool to say foolish things, and they expect fools to talk when they shouldn't.
15:20But if somebody has a reputation of being discerning and wise and knowledgeable, and then they say something completely stupid, it's easy to lose all the respect that they have earned.
15:34And that's unfortunate because everybody eventually says something really stupid.
15:38I know I have.
15:40Probably more than my share.
15:41But it's, it's funny the way that that affects us.
15:46We expect so much more out of people that we respect that when they fall short, it affects us more than all of the constant blathering of a fool.
15:57What puzzles you, Daniel?
15:59I'd have to say the magic stone verse.
16:02Oh, yeah, that was a fun one.
16:05Yeah, a bribe is like a magic stone in the eyes of the one who gives it.
16:11Whoever he turns, he prospers.
16:13I had to look at that one in a couple of different translations and look at the Hebrew words to see how to really understand what was going on there.
16:21It's, you know, King James translates it as a precious stone.
16:24But the word that King James translates as precious is hen, which isn't really precious.
16:31It's more like grace or favor.
16:33And the stone, of course, is just a stone.
16:37But the idea of a grace stone is a, you know, grace is if somebody, you know, it's the idea of unmerited favor.
16:46Somebody gives you something that you don't deserve, or they give you the attention or consideration that you don't deserve.
16:52That's grace.
16:53Maybe you're a fool, and they treat you like you're not.
16:57That's grace.
16:58So a grace stone is one that causes other people to treat you in ways that you don't deserve, treat you better than you deserve.
17:07I can see where they would get the idea of a magic stone.
17:10I think that really is the intent.
17:11I don't think it's talking about a precious stone like a gem.
17:15I think it's talking about a stone that you can use to charm people.
17:18So like a wit or a charismatic kind of stone.
17:23Yeah.
17:23And TLV, I think, puts it well.
17:25I mean, it leaves out stone.
17:26I wish they hadn't done that.
17:27But a bribe is a charm in the eyes of its owner.
17:30Wherever he turns, he succeeds.
17:32But I think the idea is that it charms other people.
17:36It's not like a charm that gives him good luck.
17:38It's a charm that gives him favor.
17:40It's just like when you bribe somebody, you give them something, and that gives them the incentive to listen or to do what you want them to do.
17:50God shouldn't have to bribe us.
17:52I know that.
17:53But he does indirectly, sort of.
17:56Yeah.
17:56Grace, you know, using the term grace, you know, Yeshua is referred to as the rock.
18:01Sorry.
18:01Yeah, the rock of our salvation.
18:03That's right.
18:04So Yeshua is the bribe, so to speak, but it's not a bad bribe.
18:10It's just it's part of a covenantal.
18:13It's an agreement thing.
18:16In a way, it could be considered like a bribe because anybody who's lured to him would be lured to the idea of salvation and being restored and being renewed and having eternal life later on down the road.
18:31But then when you start learning more, it becomes more of a relationship.
18:36It becomes more of a dive into love and all that.
18:42So I don't see it.
18:44What's that word on bribe there?
18:46Is that straight bribe or is that gift?
18:50I see.
18:50I thought gift popped up.
18:53Shehad, a donation or a bribe?
18:56A donation.
18:57I like the donation probably better than a bribe.
19:00Yeah, you know, one thing that this made me think of is Esau.
19:04This whole chapter kind of reminded me of Esau, so much of it.
19:08And I'm thinking about how when Jacob knew that Esau was coming in his direction with hundreds of armed men and he kept sending gift after gift ahead of him.
19:18And this created goodwill on the part of Esau.
19:24By the time he finally met Jacob, he was like, what is going on with all this stuff?
19:29He had forgotten his anger and now he was like in wonder.
19:33And the same thing happens, I think, with God.
19:37It's not just Yeshua that he gave us, but he gave us so many good things.
19:41He gave us all of his creation, all of the wonders around us.
19:45He gave us family and relationships.
19:47And all of these things are like continual gifts, good things that God gives us if we are willing to see them for what they are.
19:57And they should be working towards to, you know, turning our heart to God in opening our eyes to the reality of a creator who really does love us and put so much care into his creation.
20:13Amen.
20:14So many people who don't want to believe, they put blinders on their own eyes.
20:19Yep.
20:20I got a question here real quick.
20:22It says, whenever he turns, he prospers.
20:24Is that Shuv in Hebrew or is that, what is that word to turn there?
20:31Panah.
20:32Panah.
20:33The term means essentially the same thing, it looks like.
20:37And now that's the face.
20:39That's the face and toward.
20:41Yeah, to turn toward.
20:43Yeah, whereas Shuv is to turn away.
20:45And this is mostly to turn toward.
20:46So we got the stone of grace and then we got the return and prosperity, the turn toward and to make prosper.
20:55That's very interesting because that's repentance right there.
21:00Yeah, this does.
21:01I mean, there are alternate definitions that are to turn away or to turn back.
21:06Yeah.
21:06Sounds like it's pretty much a synonym.
21:08Oh, that's cool.
21:13Very cool.
21:14That word for prospers is interesting, too.
21:18What's there?
21:20It says Sakal, which means to be prudent or circumspect.
21:25But it can mean to prosper or have success.
21:29And it sounds like it means that it causes other people to give consideration, to look at you differently.
21:38Either way, I mean, it means the same.
21:40Yeah, like to change.
21:41That's interesting.
21:44There was one couple of verses up, verse six.
21:48Here's another one that reminds me of the story of Jacob and Esau.
21:53You know, the whole thing with the birthright.
21:55You know, Esau had married a couple of wives by then and Jacob still hadn't married.
22:00And they finally had to kick him out of the house to help him go find a wife.
22:04And grandchildren were a big deal.
22:06And if you recall, one of Rebecca's, at least the justification she gave to Isaac was that Esau's wives have caused her so much heartache.
22:16And if Jacob marries a Canaanite like he did, it would kill her.
22:20And it's not just that she would have daughters-in-law that she disapproves of, but her children would be corrupted, too, so that her grandchildren wouldn't be fully Hebrew.
22:30I don't know whether she thought of it that way, especially, but.
22:35You know, the Canaanite blood had the mixture of fallen angel blood mixed with it.
22:43So I know this is after the flood, but it is believed that, a side note here, I know this is off subject, but it is believed that Noah's sons had wives that had genetic giants in their bloodlines.
22:59Yeah, I think that makes sense.
23:01You know, there's that phrase that Noah was perfect in his generation.
23:05And some people interpret that to mean that he was the only person left who was uncorrupted by that Nephilim DNA.
23:13If that's the correct interpretation, then his wife would not have been pure in her generation.
23:21And neither of his sons and their wives would be either.
23:25So all that corruption would be inevitable.
23:28Every human being alive today would have some of that DNA.
23:32There's a scripture that says something about, like, they were saved for Noah's righteousness.
23:38Like, they were spared because of Noah's righteousness.
23:42So he was under their covering is why they were saved.
23:48Which is certainly a picture of Yeshua.
23:50Amen.
23:50On the puzzles, did I already talk about that?
23:54I had verse 24.
23:56The discerning sets his face toward wisdom, but the eyes of a fool are on the ends of the earth.
24:02It took me a while to figure out what that was talking about.
24:05And I think, like, a fool, what does it mean to have your eyes on the ends of the earth?
24:11One thing that this could mean is, is talking about a daydreamer, where, you know, the discerning has a goal.
24:19He's set his face toward wisdom.
24:21He has a goal of learning wisdom.
24:22Whereas the fool is looking off into the distance at whatever, nothing.
24:28He's looking out to things that are unattainable.
24:32I didn't really want to come to this conclusion because it's like kind of talking about myself.
24:37But it sounds like the fool is unintentional in his learning.
24:43Like, he's all over the place.
24:44He's all out at the ends of the earth.
24:46He's learning a little bit about this, a little bit about that.
24:49Just following whatever shiny object comes across his path, instead of focusing on things that will actually do him good and lead him somewhere.
24:59But I think both of those are legitimate interpretations of that verse.
25:03I think something that comes to mind, too, when you mention this is common sense.
25:08Common sense sets realistic goals.
25:11We keep our goals in the here and now.
25:13We can set future goals, but our focus should be on the here and now.
25:17And wisdom is having that here and now, being able to deal with people, situations that we may not be immediately aware of, but do become aware of because we have discernment.
25:32So, for the God gives us.
25:36Yeah.
25:36I think that focus on our specific circumstances and people is a big part of what differentiates the wise person or the discerning and the fool in this proverb.
25:49That the things that the discerning person is learning are things that are focused on his real world.
25:55What is going to help him relate to the people around him?
25:58What's going to help him become a better leader or solve problems in the real world?
26:03Where as the fool is just following whatever rabbit trail he comes across and there's no particular purpose to it.
26:11He's not learning things that are going to be applicable.
26:13And I certainly see a lot of that in my own tendencies.
26:16You know, I subscribe to the craziest YouTube channels just because I think they're interesting, not because I think I'm going to actually learn anything useful out of them.
26:24I don't think there's anything wrong with curiosity in just learning about fun stuff and being entertained.
26:31As long as that doesn't become a life pursuit.
26:34As long as you don't abandon the deliberate seeking out of wisdom and applicable knowledge.
26:40That's how I excuse my own behavior anyways.
26:44You could also say here that when you will notice it says it's your face, but you've got two different body parts here.
26:51We get our face and then we get our eyes.
26:54The eyes are the wind of the soul and then the eyes are always going to wander, but we have to keep them in control with our face.
27:02But our face and our eyes should be upon wisdom, which comes from God.
27:06And we keep our eyes on God to see as soon as our eyes can wander on the ends of the earth, the earth is in the world.
27:14The world's going to be a distraction.
27:17So every time.
27:20This one's the way of looking at it.
27:22Yeah.
27:22I hadn't really thought about that distinction that it's a different part.
27:26And, you know, if you think about setting your face towards something, it means you are, you are turning towards it.
27:33And if you move, you're moving in that direction.
27:36Whereas if your eyes are moving, then you're looking at things that you want, you know, talking about the evil eye and the good eye is really talking about greed and generosity.
27:46If you are always looking out at things that you want, but you're not actually moving towards them to get them, then what's even the point?
27:56It's just daydreaming.
27:58Okay.
27:58I really liked the context and the ideas you brought up around the grandchildren.
28:06And you see this in how, like, it's not just the culture then, even now, you know, you can see this in how people behave now when they have grandchildren.
28:17It's, it's like some magic spell almost, you know, it's like, we don't have connections the way that we used to in the culture, you know, generationally.
28:26We just don't have the same survival needs, communal kind of stuff that they had back in the ancient times.
28:36But even in our modern day lives where people were so isolated and separated and not living in communities, you still see that there's this beauty of becoming a grandparent.
28:49That's just universally agreed upon.
28:53Like, it's just something everybody experiences.
28:56And there's something about that, that people are blessed by just naturally.
29:01It's meant to be a blessing.
29:03So it's just kind of interesting.
29:05I thought that was kind of interesting.
29:07And then the second part of it where, and the glory of sons is their fathers, of course, is interesting because that speaks to the relationship of the father and the son.
29:16And, you know, the father and the son, you know, but then it also is how we should be relating to our fathers, you know.
29:26Yeah.
29:27You know, one thing I was thinking about, again, this relates to the, you know, Isaac, Jacob, Esau, Rebecca, that whole thing.
29:34Is if parents are teaching their children properly, if they're teaching them to fear God, keep his commandments, then, you know, they are inheriting wealth from their parents.
29:47These are riches that they're passing down to their children, and then it's going to be passed down to their grandchildren.
29:53And so when somebody can look at their grandchildren and see well-behaved, successful, righteous people, then that's got to be an enormous sense of accomplishment.
30:07Like, I didn't just teach my children well.
30:09I taught them so well that they taught their children well.
30:12And that's going to turn around and keep all kinds of honor onto those grandparents.
30:20The entire community is going to see generations of good people and credit that to those grandparents.
30:28I mean, that's a crown that I'd like to have.
30:32Yeah, that's good.
30:33Yeah, I think that that's one of the things that Rebecca was worried about and Isaac had not thought about.
30:40She was looking at Esau's behavior and seeing how his choices were going to affect their descendants for generations to come.
30:50Rebecca was thinking, I can't have this.
30:52It's not just me that's going to die.
30:54It's our future, our heritage that's going to die.
30:57And so using Esau's anger against Jacob as an excuse to send Jacob out to find a wife from back in Haran, this was something that allowed, well, it was an excuse.
31:12Rebecca was using Esau's anger as an excuse.
31:15Or no, it seems like the other way around that Rebecca was using Esau's marriages as an excuse to send Jacob away.
31:22But I think that she was really using Esau's anger as an excuse to do something that she knew needed to be done anyways.
31:32But she didn't explain that to Jacob because he wouldn't have understood.
31:36And so she just said, it's these Canaanite women.
31:40Can't have any more of them in my house.
31:43It's interesting because, you know, sometimes women have those kind of sensibilities to know that they won't be able to explain those things.
31:51And so they just they just have the workarounds and not necessarily manipulation, but just this idea of like they just do what's necessary sometimes.
32:00But it is interesting because you think about like how she's thinking and in that culture and in that time, they would have been thinking about the generations to come.
32:10And, you know, we just I think that despite the fact that we still have these connections and these blessings around having grandchildren in our culture, I don't think that we have the connection with the generations and how they will live.
32:27We have the connection with the fact that they will exist.
32:30But I don't see in the culture that we live in this connection to like what kind of people they're actually going to be.
32:38I mean, I think everybody wants them to be good people.
32:41But what I see is that the culture has gotten people to believe now that it's not their business what their children do with their grandchildren.
32:52As long as you teach them to be nice, then isn't that good enough?
32:56Yeah. You shouldn't expect your kids to do anything like you.
32:59They could they should do whatever they want.
33:01Their kids should do whatever they want.
33:02Like like this whole idea that like, you know, we want grandchildren.
33:06We want things to be the same in the sense of like carrying not just the name technically, but the name in terms of the reputation.
33:16But the culture has really twisted that up.
33:18And now it's like you shouldn't expect any of that.
33:23And if you do, there's something wrong with you.
33:26So it's very unfortunate, but we still have that desire somewhere in us.
33:31But we've started to believe that it's not possible that we can't have those things and that it's not important.
33:39That it's not important that we want our reputation and our character to be passed on to the next generation in the next.
33:48Yeah. And their reputation really is important.
33:50And all those proverbs that Solomon talked about, the good name is to be valued above silver and gold.
33:57That's something that our culture seems to have lost.
33:59People are so proud of not caring what other people think about them.
34:03And it's good not to care if people think badly of you for doing what's right, because though it's good to be thought badly of by evil people.
34:15But it's a good thing to be thought well of by good people.
34:18And so it is important to consider what people think of you and then act in ways that will increase your honor in those people's eyes.
34:27I thought they keep reminding me of Jacob and Esau.
34:32And verse 20 is another one.
34:34And the connection here might not be totally clear first off.
34:39But it connects to verse 21 and then to verse 25 a little bit later.
34:47But a man of crooked heart does not discover good and one with a dishonest tongue falls into calamity.
34:54And a man of crooked heart does not discover good.
34:58I think what this is talking about is that there are two sides of really of a negative outlook.
35:06There are two different kinds of a negative outlook in the world.
35:08And the first one is the pessimist.
35:10And that's the man of a crooked heart.
35:12He doesn't discover good things in the world because he's not looking for them.
35:16He assumes that everything is bad.
35:18Nothing is ever going to work out.
35:19And, you know, I have been here a lot.
35:22And this is one of my character flaws that I'm always trying to fix.
35:26I think too well of people that I shouldn't.
35:29And I think too poorly of things that are going to happen in my life.
35:34I don't expect them to work out the way that I really want them to.
35:38And so it's possible that I'm not as dedicated in working for the things that I want because I don't think I'm going to get them anyways.
35:45Because the pessimist with a crooked heart instinctively sees only bad things in the world because that's what he expects to see.
35:54And the one with a dishonest tongue, this is someone who maybe he sees good things in the world, but he says that he doesn't.
36:02And so he's having a greater negative effect on the people around him because he's speaking negativity into their ears.
36:10He's convincing them that what they see in the world, all the good that they see around them, isn't even real.
36:16It's kind of the cynic.
36:18And in many ways, I think the cynic is worse than the pessimist because he makes people doubt their own perceptions of the world.
36:27And I think this connects to verse 21 because it says,
36:31He who sires a fool gets himself sorrow, and the father of a fool has no joy.
36:36Children instinctively know that what they do will hurt their parents.
36:43That one doesn't connect nearly as well to verse 20 as 22 does to Ed.
36:47But let me finish talking about verse 21.
36:50Children who want to hurt their parents know that if they behave in foolish ways,
36:54in ways that will harm themselves or ways that their parents, that will really disappoint their parents, that it will hurt them.
37:01And so they will frequently do those kinds of things on purpose, not realizing how much damage it does to themselves.
37:08But sometimes they will even deliberately do harm to themselves because they know it hurts their parents.
37:13And so, you know, the father of a fool, the father of somebody with a crooked heart or, you know,
37:18a desire to do evil in the world is going to get nothing but sorrow because it's so easy for someone to hurt you if you care about them.
37:27If you care about your children, it's easy for your children to hurt you.
37:31And the father of a fool has no joy.
37:34The same thing.
37:36But verse 22 talks about the results of this.
37:39A joyful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones.
37:43A poorly behaved child, someone who causes themselves all kinds of grief and thereby causes their parents even more grief that they don't even understand,
37:57is actually shortening the lives of their parents and causing all kinds of potential health problems.
38:03You cause yourself problems by making yourself miserable by, you know, even physical things that you do that cause more direct health problems.
38:11The pain of watching somebody you love do something to themselves, do harm to themselves over and over, year after year.
38:20That's this crushed spirit that dries up the bones.
38:24It is, it's an oppressive weight that never lets up.
38:28You might have a moment of happiness or joy now and then, but the pressure of that constant sorrow,
38:36that constant reminder that somebody you love is hurting and there's nothing you can do to stop it.
38:41It always comes back and it will.
38:45I think that probably causes more physical ill health than almost any other mental or spiritual condition a person can have.
38:54And that's the reason that I connect this to Jacob and Esau is this is how Rebecca described her life.
39:03We see what, what has resulted from Esau's ill-advised marriages because he didn't come and ask us for advice and he's causing himself and his children so much trouble.
39:12If Jacob does this too, then I'm going to die.
39:15And she might've been right.
39:17And then verse 25, that I think it pretty just about echoes that the foolish son is a grief to his father and bitterness to her who bore him.
39:29Pretty much says the same thing, but includes the mother explicitly.
39:32But I know nobody here has caused their parents that kind of grief.
39:38All right.
39:38So that was heavy.
39:39Does anybody have anything more, more uplifting to share?
39:42A joyful heart is good medicine.
39:44Yes.
39:44Yes, it is.
39:45And I wonder if Rebecca ever met Joseph or if she passed away before Jacob returned to the promised land.
39:54It would have been great for her if she had been able to meet all of her, her grandkids.
39:59But the scriptures don't say, I don't think.
40:02And I don't know if there are any Jewish traditions about that.
40:06I've heard a different spin on the story of Esau and Jacob.
40:09From a Messianic teacher, I think it was Rabbi Greg Hirschberg of Beth Yeshua.
40:18And, you know, it said Jacob, whom, you know, his father said, Jacob, whom I love, Esau, whom I hated.
40:26Remember that description?
40:29You know, Jacob came out on the heel of Esau when he was born.
40:34So I guess there's maybe some thought that they were.
40:38Remember, she said they were wrestling.
40:40She could feel them wrestling within her.
40:43So it was who could come out first.
40:46God's plans was with Jacob.
40:49And Esau came out first.
40:52So this whole idea of Jacob stealing the birthright from Esau actually is the reverse, according to some Jewish thought, I think.
41:02And they, it's supposedly that it was about Jacob trying to get his birthright back from Esau anyway, because he was supposed to be born first.
41:14Jacob was actually supposed to have been born first and not Esau.
41:18But that's just some, because it said they struggled within her womb when that, before they were born.
41:26So anyway, it was very interesting.
41:30It was very interesting.
41:31It wasn't completely.
41:33Yeah.
41:34A negative thing for Jacob, but it did turn and see God's plans are not our plans.
41:39Esau may have had, like you say, looking at the world and we've got the eyes at the end of the world, but Jacob got his heart toward God and toward wisdom.
41:51I think because of the plans that God had, Esau didn't understand.
41:58And that's what caused the division there.
42:03Jacob sending the gifts was a way of saying, this is God's word.
42:09This isn't mine.
42:11Anyway, my thoughts.
42:12Yeah, there are a lot of really interesting traditions around that relationship.
42:16There's the greeting Jacob kissed Esau on the neck, or was it the other way around?
42:22I don't remember.
42:23And there's some interesting traditions around the Hebrew text there.
42:27Excuse me.
42:28And the whole thing with Leah and how that related to Isaac and, I mean, to Jacob and Esau and some interesting ideas there too.
42:37Oh yeah, definitely.
42:38Maybe a discussion for another day though.
42:40Oh yeah.
42:42I think there are a couple of verses here that are especially relevant to our political climate today.
42:48And it's verse 15 and 26 that are talking about the same situation, but from slightly different angles.
42:58We go up to verse 15.
43:00He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to the Lord.
43:06So justifying the wicked is these statements, both of these statements, justifying the wicked and condemning the righteous are about passing judgment.
43:16This is about giving a verdict.
43:18Like we've heard all the evidence and here's the verdict.
43:21And the evidence has shown that one person is guilty and another person is innocent, but the judge reverses them and condemns the innocent person and sets the guilty free.
43:33Which, of course, we see again in Yeshua with Barabbas.
43:38Yep.
43:38But then down in verse 26, this is after the verdict, now we've got the sentencing to impose a fine on a righteous man is not good, nor to strike the noble for their uprightness.
43:51But we see these things in our world all the time.
43:56Everything good is being called evil.
43:58On social media, on television and movies, on the news, everywhere you look, the things that God says are good are being called evil and horrible.
44:09How could you worship a God who says that you should do this because those things are what it means to love your neighbor?
44:17And if you love your neighbor, you will follow God's commandments, even if you don't like them, because the end result is that everybody's life will be better.
44:26And how is that hateful?
44:28They're looking at today saying, well, this makes me feel bad that you're telling me that I'm living in sin.
44:32And so that's not loving, except that telling you that you're living in sin and prompting you to repent might make your life a whole lot better in the future.
44:43And so we have completely reversed those things on almost everything, even stealing.
44:49I mean, something so obvious in murder.
44:52These are things that everybody knows right from wrong.
44:55But stealing and murder are glorified.
44:58And letting murderers go free, it's evil and horrible to kill people.
45:04Well, except God said, murderers need to be executed.
45:09And that's for the good of everybody.
45:11And it doesn't really matter if they're sorry.
45:14It doesn't matter if they lacked, you know, if they were insane at the moment.
45:18None of those things are relevant.
45:20And the world doesn't understand because they don't understand God in the way that he has set up the world.
45:26They only understand what they want, how they feel at the moment.
45:33And because feelings are so easily manipulated, Satan has completely turned people's minds around and convinced themselves that black is white, white is black, good is evil, evil is good.
45:45And now righteous people like this, like verse 26, righteous people are punished for doing what's right.
45:55And noble people who are standing up for the good of everybody are condemned and punished for it.
46:05So what a world we live in.
46:07And sermon number five is done.
46:09Oh, yeah.
46:11Yeah, this reminds me, I think there was a proverb that says an unjust weight and an unjust measure is an abomination to God.
46:19That's what reminds me of this verse right here about the righteous man is punished and the wicked is glorified or something.
46:28What verse was that?
46:29Verse 15, verse 15, that's it.
46:34He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both alike an abomination to God.
46:40That's the unjust weight and unjust measure.
46:43Because if you're falsifying what God intended to be righteous and what he intends to be something to be wicked, the holy and the profane, you're calling, like you say, good evil and evil good, which is an abomination.
47:02You know what?
47:03There's other things that are called an abomination as well.
47:06And I think they're linked, created, creation, things like the homosexuality, things like that is called an abomination.
47:17I think that's one thing that's called an abomination.
47:20There's, there's things that are called abominations.
47:22And I think they're all tied together in this aspect because it's glorifying the wicked and then calling good evils.
47:34Completely perverting God's intended use for things.
47:38Destroying the order in the, yeah, definitely.
47:42Yeah, there is one other proverb in here that connected to Jacob and Esau.
47:47Well, I'm sure they all could all be connected in some way, but verse 27, whoever restrains his word has knowledge and he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.
47:59I had mentioned earlier that an alternate name for Esau is Edom, which means red and is connected with passion, fire, anger, a temper, that kind of thing.
48:10And you think about the story of the lentil stew, when Esau had been out hunting and he came back and he was famished and he said, you know, Jacob, give me some of that red stuff or I'm going to die.
48:22And, you know, he was speaking foolishly from his passions and he wanted to, he had a hunger.
48:28He wanted to satisfy it and he didn't really care what he said.
48:32He was going to say anything.
48:33And so Jacob knew this and he said, okay, I'll give you some of this if you give me your birthright.
48:38And he says, yeah, whatever.
48:40What good's a birthright if I'm going to die?
48:42And of course he wasn't going to die right that moment.
48:44If he was that bad off, he wouldn't be talking.
48:47But if Esau had been a man of discernment, someone who could restrain his words, when Jacob said that, maybe he could have just looked at Jacob.
48:56Are you nuts?
48:58And not said a word.
48:59And Jacob would say, oh yeah, I'm just kidding.
49:00Here you go.
49:01You never know how things would work out if you control your passions and especially control your mouth.
49:11Not say things whenever you feel like saying them because our feelings will lead us astray and they will control us if we don't control them.
49:22Yeah.
49:22In verse 28 goes right off of that.
49:24Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise.
49:28He keeps his mouth shut.
49:29Everybody will think he's smarter than he is.
49:32Okay.
49:33One question that we didn't address is, which proverb offends you?
49:39Is there one here?
49:40I kind of talked about one that offended me.
49:42Didn't really offend me so much as it really made me think about myself and what I might be doing wrong or how I might have my priorities messed up.
49:52But I'm curious if anybody else has a proverb that offends you or maybe makes you think it's talking about you.
50:01How about the last one?
50:02Even a fool who keeps silent is considered wise.
50:06When he closes his lips, he is deemed intelligent.
50:09What are your thoughts on that one, Daniel?
50:11There's two ways of looking at that.
50:14Sometimes keeping silent doesn't make you wise.
50:17It can make you a fool as well.
50:19Sometimes you need to step out and say something.
50:22But if you don't say nothing, then it corroborates your motive.
50:26For example, you're a witness to a crime that takes place.
50:28If you remain silent, you're violating God's word because you need to report that crime.
50:36Yeah, or if you see something that could hurt somebody if you don't intervene.
50:43Yeah, that's a good point.
50:45Yep.
50:46But see, here's the thing.
50:48This is looking at it as if this is social situations here, though.
50:53This is looking with dealing with people, other people.
50:58So not situational necessarily, but when dealing with other people in social scenarios, you know, Solomon had to wheel and deal and being a king with other nations and other ethnicities and, you know, the Queen of Sheba, which there is a, that's interesting that a lot of people think that,
51:23a side note, that the Magi that came to see Yeshua were from like Iran or something, but that isn't true.
51:31They came because of the Queen of Sheba.
51:35They were from Sheba's kingdom.
51:38They were nowhere near Iran or, or Iraq.
51:44Solomon and the Queen of Sheba met, discusses that, and then it talks about that they would repay.
51:51Solomon was kind to the Queen of Sheba.
51:54And look at the gifts they gave.
51:57Look at those gifts they gave.
51:59Gold and myrrh.
52:02And they were almost, it almost was the same gifts that they get.
52:07They returned for Yeshua later on.
52:11There's a pattern there.
52:12It also says that they were from Sheba.
52:15It says that the Magi were from Sheba.
52:18Where does it say that?
52:19Oh, again, I'm not familiar with that.
52:21I found it long ago.
52:24I did look up the, talking about the Queen of Sheba coming to visit Solomon.
52:28And it does say that she came with a large group of attendants and a great caravan of camels loaded with spices, gold, and precious jewels.
52:38So it is very similar.
52:39Yeah, and there's one more verse that says that they were from a land where the Magi were from.
52:48It was in the dealings when they were talking to Herod.
52:52I think they were telling them where they were from.
52:56And then they said they were from far land or something.
53:02Hold on.
53:04I'm just looking at an article on Pathéos talking about this same idea.
53:09It says that people believe that they came from Persia because they're called the Magi.
53:13And that word is derived from a Persian word.
53:17But just because they're called that doesn't mean that that's where they were from.
53:20Correct.
53:21Because that word had been adopted into Greek and Hebrew at the time.
53:25So it says Matthew's probably using the term as a more general term to refer to any kind of astrologer or magician.
53:33The gifts they brought are a big clue.
53:37I'm trying to find.
53:39The Boswellia tree where frankincense comes from.
53:42Or, you know, where they derive frankincense.
53:45It comes from Southern Arabia and Somalia.
53:47So it would certainly make more sense if they were bringing frankincense that they would have come from that direction.
53:54Yeah.
53:55That's interesting.
53:56I hadn't thought of that before.
53:58I got to find that verse.
53:59It said they were from maybe it was the east or something.
54:05Maybe it was something.
54:08When there's a Yeshua talks about.
54:11That's kind of iffy.
54:12In Matthew 12, 42, he says that, you know, the Queen of Sheba brought gifts to Solomon.
54:17But there's one greater than Solomon here.
54:19That's kind of an iffy connection there, I think.
54:22Yeah.
54:23But this article references a prophecy in Isaiah.
54:27That says caravans from Midian and Sheba will come bearing gifts of gold and frankincense.
54:33But it doesn't say where that is.
54:36That may have been it right there.
54:39That very well might have been it.
54:41Trying to see where that prophecy is.
54:44Yeah.
54:45Isaiah 60.
54:47Oh, that's actually the one that you talked about earlier about the different metals.
54:50Oh, interesting.
54:52So a multitude of camels shall cover you.
54:55Young camels of Midian and Ephah.
54:57Those from Sheba shall come and they shall bring gold and frankincense and bring good news and praises of Yahweh.
55:03And they bring red and an age.
55:05Yeah.
55:06And then I think further down is where it says, oh, yeah, down in verse 17, instead of bronze, I will bring gold.
55:16Instead of iron, I will bring silver.
55:17Instead of wood, bronze.
55:18Instead of stones, iron.
55:20So everything gets upgraded.
55:23Yeah.
55:24Cool.
55:25I think that prophecy from Isaiah is probably the best argument.
55:28Yeah.
55:29That was what I was going to say.
55:32That was an interesting and informative rabbit trail.
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