- 3 months ago
A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.
Proverbs 15:1 ESV
A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.
Proverbs 15:4 ESV
In the house of the righteous there is much treasure, but trouble befalls the income of the wicked.
Proverbs 15:6 ESV
There are many kinds of wealth, but very little in this world is more valuable than the relationships you have with your family and neighbors. Solomon's advice will help you preserve and build those relationships instead of tearing them down.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Send me a friend request on The Torah Network: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
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Proverbs 15:1 ESV
A gentle tongue is a tree of life, but perverseness in it breaks the spirit.
Proverbs 15:4 ESV
In the house of the righteous there is much treasure, but trouble befalls the income of the wicked.
Proverbs 15:6 ESV
There are many kinds of wealth, but very little in this world is more valuable than the relationships you have with your family and neighbors. Solomon's advice will help you preserve and build those relationships instead of tearing them down.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Send me a friend request on The Torah Network: https://jaycarper.com/ttn
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
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LearningTranscript
00:00From Proverbs 15.
00:30The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, but the prayer of the upright is acceptable to him.
00:42The way of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, but he loves him who pursues righteousness.
00:47There is severe discipline for him who forsakes the way. Whoever hates reproof will die.
00:53A scoffer does not like to be reproved. He will not go to the wise.
00:56A glad heart makes a cheerful face, but by sorrow of heart the spirit is crushed.
01:02The heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, but the mouth of fools feeds on folly.
01:07All the days of the afflicted are evil, but the cheerful of heart has a continual feast.
01:13Better is a little with the fear of the Lord than great treasure and trouble with it.
01:17Better is a dinner of herbs where love is than a fattened ox and hatred with it.
01:21A hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he who is slow to anger quiets contention.
01:27The way of a sluggard is like a hedge of thorns, but the path of the upright is a level highway.
01:33A wise son makes a glad father, but a foolish man despises his mother.
01:38Folly is a joy to him who lacks sense, but a man of understanding walks straight ahead.
01:42Without counsel, plans fail, but with many advisors they succeed.
01:46To make an apt answer is a joy to a man, and a word in season how good it is.
01:52The path of life leads upward for the prudent, that he may turn away from Sheol beneath.
01:57The Lord tears down the house of the proud, but maintains the widow's boundaries.
02:02The thoughts of the wicked are an abomination to the Lord, but gracious words are pure.
02:07Whoever is greedy for unjust gain troubles his own household, but he who hates bribes will live.
02:11The heart of the righteous ponders how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things.
02:18The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous.
02:22The light of the eyes rejoices the heart, and good news refreshes the bones.
02:28The ear that listens to life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise.
02:32Whoever ignores instruction despises himself, but he who listens to reproof gains intelligence.
02:36The fear of the Lord is instruction and wisdom, and humility comes before honor.
02:42All right, I think it seemed to me that there was a consistent kind of overall theme to this chapter of joy and sorrow.
02:52How people who follow a path of wisdom, who listen to discipline and surround themselves with wise people, have a happier life.
03:00They are healthier, they are wiser themselves, just things go better for them.
03:06And people who follow foolish impulses, who don't listen to instruction, who surround themselves with fools, they're inviting trouble.
03:15They cause problems for themselves and just generally have a more miserable life.
03:19And there are, I think, right in the middle of the chapter, like verses, I think, 13 through about 18, there's this, you know, the wise person is happy.
03:29The fool is miserable because he does these things, and the wise person is happy because he does these things.
03:34And these verses all seem to be connected and playing off of each other.
03:38But before I go off talking anymore, I'd like to hear your thoughts.
03:45So in particular, you know, if there's any verse in here that you want to talk about, go ahead and speak up.
03:52But in particular, I'd like to hear your thoughts on these four questions.
03:56What speaks to you?
03:57What puzzles you?
03:58What surprises you?
03:59And what offends you?
04:01That last one is often a challenge for me.
04:04Sometimes there will be a proverb that, like, that just doesn't seem right.
04:11And, you know, kind of irritates my spirit or I don't see that in the world, that kind of thing.
04:16But, you know, it's not that I'm offended, like, oh, that's awful.
04:20I can't believe Solomon wrote that.
04:22Not really like that.
04:23It's just kind of rubs me the wrong way.
04:27Looks like we lost Robbie there somehow.
04:30Anyways, what's your opinion?
04:32Which one of these proverbs speaks to you or puzzles, surprise, offends, or that you just want to talk about?
04:40This is very interesting.
04:42Like here it says, the house of the righteous has great wealth, but the income of the wicked brings trouble.
04:49God allows us, even if we're just awful, troublesome, wicked people, to still become wealthy and rich and get all this stuff.
05:01But guess what?
05:03That doesn't mean that it's going to turn out the way that you thought.
05:08And so I'm seeing, like, the wealth isn't what you think it is.
05:11Like, we're not rich people, but my children always say, Mommy, we're the richest people on our block.
05:17Because we have Yeshua.
05:19And it's the sweetest thing in the world.
05:21But there's people on our block who have a lot more money than we do, and I see trouble.
05:26Oh, yeah.
05:27There are definitely different kinds of wealth.
05:29Houses, cars, wealth, women.
05:31That doesn't mean that you're wealthy.
05:34Yeah, if you've got community, if you have healthy relationships, especially within your own house, there's no value you can put on that.
05:43I'd love to be rich, but I would much rather have a good relationship with my wife than a billion dollars.
05:50There's just no comparison.
05:51The one that really touched me and that kept coming along is A Gentle Tongue is the Tree of Life.
06:00That was four.
06:02And then a hot-tempered man stirs up strife, but he was slow to anger, quiet's contention.
06:10And an example was today, while I was working at the coffee shop, I got an email from a co-worker pretty much giving it to me.
06:21I got an email saying that next time I sent an email demanding for something that I have to do my due diligence.
06:33And it triggered me, and my blood pressure was starting to rise.
06:39And thankfully, the father kind of tapped me on my shoulder and just said,
06:43Hey, calm down.
06:45You've been through this before.
06:47Don't let it get the best out of you.
06:49And I just humbled myself, honestly, and just went back and said, I didn't mean to demand anything.
06:58I apologize.
06:59I'll look back at what I'm doing wrong, and we'll go from there.
07:04I said, but I'm never to be demanding.
07:06And I wasn't demanding at all.
07:07Not at any point in an email was I saying, you need to do this now.
07:13I was just informing that this is the actions that I was going to take, and I was asking for assistance, but I wasn't demanding for them to do anything at any point.
07:25So as soon as I sent that email, I got a message in Teams, and it was another guy that was in that email.
07:34He sent me a message saying, hey, listen, this person is dealing with a lot of back pain right now, so they're a little bit on edge right now.
07:42And my reply was, I understand, no worries.
07:48I know that there's a lot of stress and pressure going on at work right now.
07:54I said, but I appreciate you letting me know, and I hope that she feels better soon.
07:59And if somebody came to my rescue, at least, to make me feel better, that, hey, man, it's really not you.
08:07It's just that person is going through some back pain, and that's coming across.
08:11And then a few minutes after that, that person sent me an email and tells me, because I said it, I apologize, and they come back and say, oh, I'll forgive you.
08:20And I know this person.
08:21This person is actually a really nice person.
08:23It's always been nice to me.
08:25It's always been nice to this person.
08:26And no issues at all, and this is the first time.
08:29So I was actually surprised.
08:31So instead of me going back and being mean and saying whatever, you know, something mean like, well, that's not what I was trying to do.
08:38I don't know what's your problem, blah, blah, blah.
08:41I didn't even say that.
08:42I just ate it, and I apologized myself.
08:45There is something about over-apologizing, and that's for another conversation, right?
08:49But I did say, hey, look, my apologies.
08:51I didn't mean to come across that way.
08:53And that tempered everything, brought everything down.
08:56So instead of me escalating those things, you know, that's not my nature.
08:59But after years of being an introvert and people just constantly giving it to you for years, eventually you start defending yourself, and it comes out the wrong way.
09:09You know, this has helped me.
09:11The Proverbs has helped me tremendously in calming down because I'm not a tempered person.
09:16At least I don't see myself at that.
09:18But when you're an introvert, again, for those of you who are introverts, you just stay quiet most of the time and don't say anything.
09:26So you turn the other cheek plenty of times, and you get tired of it eventually, and you become defensive, and it comes out the wrong way.
09:33So as believers, you know, we have to, wherever we're at, including our workplace, because we spend, I don't know, what's the percentage, but like 80% of our time, you know, we spend at the workplace instead of our families.
09:47That's a great place to show how he has worked in our lives, and sometimes is by eating it, just by taking it in the chin over and over again.
10:01Now, it doesn't mean that, and I want to be clear, it doesn't mean that you got to take it forever.
10:06At some point, you got to defend yourself, but it has to be in the right way.
10:10But that definitely spoke to me today, and that's how Red does, and went through that situation.
10:15Yeah, that's good.
10:17That connects down to verse 28, where it says, the heart of the righteous ponders how to answer.
10:23And the word for there isn't, I don't think it's tzaddik.
10:26Oh, yeah, it is tzaddik.
10:28Never mind.
10:28I don't understand the Hebrew well enough to comment on that.
10:31But the intent here seems to be that a righteous person doesn't just say what comes to mind.
10:38He takes some time to think about it.
10:39And what would have happened if you had just instantly replied to her email?
10:43And, you know, say, hey, well, don't be so sensitive.
10:47I'm just telling you the truth.
10:49And it could cause permanent damage to the relationship, and you may never be able to work together the same way that you could before that point.
10:58And just because you went with your gut instead of thinking about it and saying, you know, what's really happening here?
11:06And just the act of waiting gives somebody else time to step in and give you a heads up.
11:13Yeah.
11:14Yeah.
11:15Verse 23.
11:16There's another one.
11:17To make an apt answer is a joy to a man.
11:21And answer implies a response.
11:23So somebody has said something to you or asked a question.
11:25And I think I see Young's literal.
11:31Yeah.
11:32There's a verse in here, and I'm just not remembering which verse, but it actually says a wise man in the ESV.
11:38But the word for wise is actually talking about a prudent man, someone who considers what he's saying before he says it.
11:45Well, and I also noticed something about that, too.
11:48Not to interrupt too much, but part of that, like with my husband, there's a time and a place to say certain things with him.
11:56Like he just got home from work.
11:58Am I bothering him?
11:59No, he's playing with his six-year-old daughter.
12:01I'm over here for a minute.
12:02I got my kiss.
12:03I'm going to walk away.
12:04Yeah.
12:04Because the guy just got home.
12:05Or like sometimes you need to be careful how much of something you say at once.
12:10Because like he always says, men put things in boxes.
12:13You got to stay in one box.
12:14Let me process it.
12:16Don't keep putting things with your girl's spaghetti brain and try to connect everything right now.
12:21Let me put one thing at a time because everything's got to be in its season, in its place.
12:25You know, you got to be prudent with your information because I can't do the thing like you do with everything sparking all like this because we're different.
12:35And so that's how it read for me.
12:38Yeah, that is true.
12:39I think that's probably true for everybody to an extent that, you know, it's not necessarily just men, but, you know, if you come at somebody with too much information too quickly or too many complaints, let me deal with this first one before we get to the next one.
12:52The stress levels keep going up and up and up until you, you know, you can't deal with it anymore and then you explode and that doesn't help anybody.
12:59All right.
13:00So back to our four questions.
13:02I had one about one that I thought was a little bit puzzling, and that's verse 24.
13:10The path of life leads upward for the prudent that he may turn away from Sheol beneath.
13:15My first thought here is that, you know, I know people who are not believers who are prudent, that, you know, they're very considered in what they say.
13:25They don't try to offend people.
13:27They try to give consideration to other people.
13:30Those are all aspects of being prudent.
13:32So how does prudence keep a person out of hell?
13:36Then when I thought about it some more, I realized it's not talking about hell.
13:39Sheol is not hell.
13:40Sheol is the grave.
13:42It's saying a prudent man keeps himself alive.
13:47Prudence will protect you.
13:48You don't say things that offend the wrong people because that could get you killed or at least hurt.
13:56So the path of life leads upward for the prudent because it keeps them out of the grave.
14:02It just took me a while to process that.
14:04Yeah, I would also think that, I think we've heard the hell on earth and you can feel at times where death is just better than the life you're living.
14:17Because it's so stressful, it's so overwhelming that you feel like, hey, you know, this is hell right now.
14:26And it pays to be prudent here on earth.
14:30Like, yeah, if you're prudent now, you're not going to die because you were prudent.
14:34But also, if you're a prudent man, you'll find more peace and joy in where you're at now than not being prudent.
14:44Okay, you can all think about the four questions.
14:46I'm just going to go up to the top of the chapter.
14:48You know, we talked a little bit about the soft and the harsh words here.
14:52It's definitely true in the workplace.
14:54And it's especially important with people that you have an ongoing relationship with.
15:00That you think about, how is what I'm going to say going to impact this relationship tomorrow or next week or next year?
15:07Just having to pause to think about what you're saying really increases the chances that you're going to say something prudent and wise instead of just, like, letting your gut speak for you.
15:18Because the gut doesn't have a whole lot of brains.
15:20Paul is a dietician, and she has taught me that your guts actually do have brains, but they're not the conscious kind that can give you wisdom.
15:31They're the kind to help you react, which there's a time and a place for just an instant reaction.
15:36But you normally don't want that with your words when you're dealing with people that you love or that you want to have an ongoing relationship with.
15:45There are multiple examples of both of these in Scripture.
15:49You know, one is Jacob and Esau.
15:51When Jacob was returning to the Promised Land after he had been with Laban, he heard that Esau was coming to meet him with an armed party of, like, 400 men.
16:01He's got himself and his wives and his children and all of his livestock.
16:06And I'm sure he had a lot of men with him, too, to help with all that livestock.
16:09But he didn't have an army, and he was afraid that Esau was coming to kill him.
16:14So he divided up all of his possessions, and he sent gift after gift ahead of him to Esau so that a little gift, okay, that's great, but I'm still coming to kill you.
16:26And then there's another little gift, and then another one, and another one.
16:30And all of these repeated good deeds have a cumulative effect that's much greater than if he had just given everything to Esau.
16:38You know, if he had just sent everything he had to Esau, Esau would say, you can't bribe me out of this.
16:43I'm coming to hurt you.
16:45But instead, he softens Esau's heart bit by bit over time by repeated gentle answers of a kind.
16:53Another one is very similar, is Abigail and David.
16:57You know, David and his men had been patrolling the borders of Israel and protecting the ranchers.
17:02And they were providing David and his men with sustenance during that time, giving them food, sometimes shelter probably.
17:12Otherwise, they would have to go and raid enemy territory for food, which they also did sometimes.
17:17But because Abigail's husband, Nadav, I believe his name was, he had benefited.
17:24He was a very wealthy man, and he had benefited extensively from David's guarding his borders.
17:30And so David came, was coming to him to say, hey, what did you have to contribute to our efforts here?
17:37And Nadav said, I'm not giving you anything.
17:39I don't owe you anything.
17:40I didn't ask you to come and guard my land.
17:42And so David's like, oh, that's right.
17:45You didn't.
17:45So let me come and take it from you.
17:47Because you didn't ask us to guard it.
17:49He was going to go kill Nadav.
17:51And Abigail heard about it.
17:53One of her servants came and told her.
17:54And Nadav was just a, he was an awful man.
17:57But Abigail still loved her family, even though she knew her husband was an evil man.
18:04She still wanted to protect him, and especially her children.
18:08So she went out to David, and she brought way more than David had expected.
18:13She brought date cakes and bread and all kinds of gifts for him and begged him, please don't hurt my family.
18:20And because of it, Nadav actually died, I think, the next day.
18:23He got drunk that night and died of an aneurysm or something the next morning.
18:26But Abigail became queen because of this.
18:32And all her children lived.
18:33And they inherited from Nadav.
18:35Her future children inherited from the king himself.
18:39She clearly got a lot out of this.
18:41And David became a better man for it because he repented from his vengeance, wanting to kill Nadav just for pettiness.
18:48Pettiness is a terrible thing, but it's not something that you get to kill people over.
18:52Think about David and Goliath.
18:55When Goliath was out there provoking Israel, but they were all too scared of him.
19:00When David showed up, probably a teenager, and he went out to fight Goliath, he starts provoking Goliath, saying,
19:08You're coming at me with a sword and spear, but I'm coming at you with the power of the God of Israel.
19:13Goliath has no respect for the God of Israel.
19:15And he's like, Well, that's just stupid.
19:17What does this mean?
19:19How can you defeat me?
19:20And I've been making a fool out of you and your God for a month now.
19:23And so he just dismissed David as not a threat.
19:27And then comes this stone, and down goes Goliath.
19:31And David's taunting of Goliath caused him to overreact.
19:35And that's an example of a harsh word stirring up wrath, but actually with a good result.
19:42David knew how Goliath would respond to that.
19:44You know, another one with not such a good result is in the book of Judges.
19:50There was a, I think there were lots of attacks from foreigners, and I don't remember the exact
19:55circumstances of this one, but, you know, a foreign group, Moabites, or somebody had been
20:00attacking the tribes in Yephthah.
20:03He had raised an army and went out to fight them, but he didn't invite the tribe of Ephraim
20:09to join him.
20:09And, you know, there were a lot of rivalries between Ephraim and especially Judah.
20:14So then the tribe of Ephraim came to him and said, hey, we're Israel too.
20:19Why don't you include us in this?
20:20Because there were spoils of war, and there was glory, and all kinds of things.
20:24And he said, let me pull it up just so I know exactly what he said.
20:27This is in Judges 12.
20:30Oops.
20:31I went to Jude instead of Judges.
20:33Judges 12.
20:35Oh, it was the Ammonites.
20:36Why did you cross over and fight the Ammonites and not call us to join you?
20:40So he said, last time I called you, you didn't answer me.
20:44So why would I do it this time?
20:46I can't trust you.
20:47So I took my life in my own hand and crossed over to fight them.
20:50And this caused a civil war.
20:53Because he told the truth.
20:54I mean, he didn't say anything that was wrong.
20:56He had called the Ephraimites to help him in the past, and they didn't show up.
21:00And he had to fight for his own life without their help.
21:03So he wasn't going to depend on them again.
21:06But because he said, I didn't call you because you guys are not dependable.
21:11You know, they didn't react well to that, and it started a civil war in Israel.
21:15That's the famous story of the Shibboleth thing.
21:18Like, you know, when the Ephraimites are crossing the river, you can tell which one is an Ephraimite because he can't pronounce Shibboleth correctly.
21:23Just some examples of the soft answer and a harsh answer and the kind of effect and how that can actually be used to enhance relationships and even to provoke somebody into doing something that you want them to do.
21:36It might not be so good for them.
21:37It might not be so good for you either, unfortunately.
21:41I wouldn't say it's offended, but it feels offended.
21:44I feel offended, but I don't want to when it talks.
21:47A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger because I'm a mom.
21:55And it's so hard to be nice sometimes when you get a little six-year-old who's super emotional little girl and a boy who just wants to be inappropriate and is nine years old all the time.
22:07And it's really hard to, like, be kind.
22:13And when I can bring myself to just do it, it comes into my mind constantly.
22:20And my mom's, too, because my mom's around, too.
22:22My stepmom's here.
22:24And it's just we all have to remember this.
22:26It works.
22:27Like, not every time perfectly right now, but if it's slowly little building blocks, they become used to it, and they realize, well, I better listen while mom's nice.
22:40But then it becomes easier for everybody.
22:43And it's easier now because I have made the decision to have a more gentle way of parenting.
22:51Yeah, and I think the more people in the household and the more complicated the relationships, the more important it becomes even to tiptoe around people at times.
23:01I mean, you can't do that all the time because that just causes a strife of its own.
23:05You do have to be careful that you're not going to say something that's going to be taken the wrong way or in the wrong spirit or that you're not speaking out just in anger.
23:13Well, you don't want to turn your children to anger because there's some stuff.
23:16You don't want to bring your children up in a way that's going to turn them against you and turn them into the thing you're trying to avoid in the whole first place.
23:24So part of that starts with the six-year-old's emotional, and I have to work on this whole, okay, I have to be, because it's so hard sometimes to just have a gentle word when it's just working.
23:37Yeah, there was something that Heidi said a few weeks ago, that one of the goals of a parent is to make sure that you can like your children, that you can enjoy being in their presence.
23:49Jenny.
23:50Oh, that's right, yeah.
23:52That if you are raising children in such a way that they're becoming somebody that you don't want to be around, it's going to be much harder to raise them.
24:00And then what about your grandkids?
24:02Do you want to be with your grandkids?
24:03How can you be with your grandkids if you can't get along with your kids?
24:07Yep, that's right.
24:08And I do love being around my children.
24:10They're wonderful people.
24:11It's easier now.
24:13Tell you what, you got to start and you got to stay there.
24:15Sometimes you get really frustrated.
24:16You got to stop and be like, gentle, gentle.
24:19But if it works better, you just got to get through that feeling, that gentle.
24:24Yeah, I'm sure there's some variation between children too.
24:28Some of them need a harsher word than others.
24:31Well, I will tell you one that kind of offended me in the way that it just rubbed me the wrong way at first.
24:37That's verse 25.
24:40It seems like I already said that.
24:42The Lord tears down the house of the proud but maintains the widow's boundaries.
24:46I know of examples of this kind of thing from scripture.
24:50You think of the widow with the jars of oil.
24:54Her family was being oppressed.
24:56Her husband had owed money and he couldn't pay it.
25:01And then he died.
25:02And so his creditor was coming after her and her children.
25:06And so I think it was Elisha who came along and said,
25:09borrow all the jars from your neighbors and started pouring oil and filled up all these jars with oil.
25:16And, you know, she sold the oil and paid off her husband's debt.
25:20So here was God divinely intervening in a situation to protect this widow's boundaries,
25:26her family, and the inheritance that her husband had left for her.
25:29In this case, though, we don't know anything about what happened to her oppressor.
25:34We know he was paid back for the loan.
25:36But did anything happen to him after that?
25:39They have no idea.
25:39But we can point at people like Ahab and say, you know, King Ahab was an evil man
25:47and God wiped out his descendants from the earth.
25:51None of them are alive today.
25:52Same thing with many of the Canaanite peoples in entire cities completely wiped out.
25:58Not because God was wanting to punish children or anything like that,
26:02but because he needed to end that line so that those people couldn't pass on
26:07whatever their inheritance was to anybody.
26:09They were evil people.
26:11Like, think of the Sodomites.
26:12These are Canaanites who were extremely hostile to visitors and outsiders.
26:18So God put an end to it.
26:21But the thing that offends me is that it's not the rule.
26:25That's kind of the exception, or at least it seems to be from our perspective.
26:29It seems to be the exception because we see people who are taken advantage of
26:36and oppressed all the time.
26:38And we see entire systems that are built to keep people in oppression.
26:43I mean, the Hebrews weren't slaves for 400 years straight.
26:45They were slaves for a big portion of that.
26:47But they were oppressed and abused by the people where they lived for 400 years.
26:54Eventually, God destroyed the house of the Pharaoh who was oppressing them at the end.
26:59And probably the ones from before that, too, because there was an intervening.
27:03There were intervening dynasties.
27:05But Egypt is still a country today.
27:07And there are still widows in poor and sick people who are constantly having to struggle
27:17and constantly having to deal with people taking advantage of them.
27:22The only way that I can think to reconcile this with passages like this
27:26is that God balances the scales in the end.
27:30We may not see it.
27:31There might be misery in the oppressor's house.
27:35There might be peace in the oppressed house.
27:39The balance or the scales might be balanced after death, after the resurrection and judgment.
27:44I don't know.
27:45Just have to trust that God knows what he's doing and he's got a plan.
27:49I just wish we could see it.
27:51Hey, Carlos, you got your hand up?
27:53I do.
27:54I was going to start using that option there.
27:57I think it helps out.
27:57Yeah, you know, that's a good thing you said about the whole that he killed Canaanites
28:03and he killed a group of people.
28:05And that's because he had to cut off that group of people, right?
28:08And for many years, I would hear the atheists say that, like, how can your God kill innocent people?
28:16And I didn't have an answer for that because I didn't read the scripture.
28:21So I had no idea.
28:22But now I understood what the Canaanites were doing.
28:27And they were sacrificing children.
28:28They were doing evil things.
28:29They were worshiping other gods.
28:31So I'm like, well, of course, he would allow those evil people to die.
28:37And then they will go back and say, well, what about grace?
28:40And what about mercy?
28:41And all this other stuff.
28:42And I said, well, they're so far off already, all the way to the left, you know,
28:46to where their heart has just been given completely to evil, that at that point, he has no choice.
28:54And that's an element that I think people understand that because they say, well, what about even the children?
29:01And I think that's a concept that is hard to understand sometimes, but I guess it all depends.
29:08So it reminds me of Godfather 1, where Don Chicho killed the father, and then he had two boys, and then he killed the older boy.
29:20And then the mother was like, all I have left is, you know, Corleone, right?
29:26The youngest one.
29:26And she went to Don Chicho and, like, plead for him to let him go.
29:31And, you know, it was a good plea.
29:32She was like, look, he's all I have.
29:33Look, he's a little slow.
29:35He's weak.
29:36He's never going to come back and do anything.
29:38But Don Chicho understood the principle that if he didn't kill that boy, that boy was going to come back for revenge regardless.
29:45And guess what happened?
29:46That kid got away, and many years later, he did come back, and he did kill him.
29:51It's just part of the human nature, and the father knows that in all his wisdom.
29:55So that's why he had to cut it right there and then.
29:58So it sounds offensive, but when we have our apologetic straight, and we tell nonbelievers that, listen, those people that God allowed his people to kill, you got to understand, they were already evil people.
30:12They were already murdering their own children, right, at the altar of Molech, right?
30:17They were already doing horrible things already.
30:19So it's not like it was a good group of people, and then God said, yeah, I know those people are okay, but these are my people, so you can go ahead and get them.
30:27So to me, that was very offensive back when I didn't understand that because I was like, yeah, you're right.
30:32Now, obviously, I knew that God was just, and I was like, there has to be an explanation.
30:38I just didn't know it at the time.
30:40But if I may add to it, I looked at 15, and it says, all the days of the afflicted are evil, but the cheerful of heart has a continual feast.
30:49And that, I won't say that it offends me, but it triggers me, because I'm not always cheerful all the time.
31:01I'm going to allow myself not to be cheerful for a little bit, because it makes me feel good for that moment.
31:09And I remember when I would get mad at somebody for a week.
31:13You'll never see it.
31:13You'll never notice it, but I will be mad on my own, in my own internally for a week.
31:18And I was like, this is ridiculous.
31:20I can't be mad at this.
31:21I wouldn't do anything to that.
31:22I wouldn't say anything.
31:23I wouldn't treat him any differently.
31:25But in my heart, it was eating me alive, and it was wrong.
31:29So I was like, I can't do this.
31:31So here I am, all proud of myself years later.
31:33And I was like, okay, well, I'm only going to allow myself to be mad for 24 hours.
31:38And after that, I'm going to let it go.
31:41And I remember I was talking to one of the supervisors we had at work, and I tell him the story.
31:46And I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm all proud.
31:47And I was like, oh, I only allow myself to stay mad for 24 hours.
31:52And he looked at me, he's like, 24 hours?
31:55He's like, man, that's 24 hours too long.
31:58And I kind of stopped and looked at him.
32:00And I was like, you know what, man?
32:03You are right.
32:04That is way too long.
32:05Even a day is way too long to be mad at anything or anybody because life's too short for that.
32:12But it triggers me because, you know, I don't always have a cheerful heart.
32:17And I want to.
32:18And I understand it has a continual fees.
32:20And I see other people that are cheerful.
32:23And I'm like, man, not with covetousness, right?
32:26But like, man, I want to be that happy like they are.
32:29And I'm not always like that.
32:32So that triggers me.
32:34Yeah, I can see that.
32:36I can see what you're saying.
32:38Hey.
32:39Okay.
32:39Anybody else have a thought on any particular proverb in here that might offend you or rub you the wrong way?
32:45Or maybe it makes you think, oh, that's talking about me.
32:50All right.
32:50Well, we can move on from that one.
32:52Oh, verse three, I thought was.
32:55The eyes of Yahweh are in every place, keeping watch on the evil and the good.
32:59People plot and scheme as if they think nobody will ever know.
33:05And I realize that, you know, most of those people really don't believe that anybody will ever know.
33:09They don't believe that there's a God.
33:10They don't believe anybody is watching.
33:12But even believers do this.
33:14I found myself doing it, you know, thinking about how can I, how can I get my way in this?
33:21I think that we probably all try to, we have moments where we think that we know that we're doing something wrong, but nobody knows.
33:27So it's not that big of a deal.
33:30Maybe we think we're not hurting anybody.
33:32But, you know, God is always there.
33:34He's always, he is aware of everything.
33:38And it's hard to feel that sometimes because you can't see God standing there.
33:42You can't see his eye on you.
33:45But, you know, the more time you spend in God's word, I think the easier it is to know that he's there, even when you can't see him.
33:53But there will always be that, you know, psychological disconnect between what we know at some level to be true and what we can know at a gut level to be true because we can't see it.
34:05I can't remember who it was.
34:06Someone came to Jesus and asked for prayer.
34:10I wish I could remember who that was right now.
34:11And he said, Jesus asked him, do you believe that God can do this?
34:15And he says, Lord, I believe.
34:17Help my unbelief.
34:18Because we all believe and disbelieve at the same time.
34:22All right.
34:22So what's another one that really speaks to you out of these Proverbs?
34:28Not under any obligation, but Kenneth, you're awfully quiet.
34:31Is there anything, any of these Proverbs that really stand out to you?
34:34No, not, they seem pretty much like repeating the same idea, same idea over and over.
34:44How does your Bible say that?
34:46How did you read that?
34:48This one says, fear of the Lord teaches wisdom.
34:51Humility precedes honor.
34:54So it's the fear of the Lord teaches.
34:57I believe in everything.
35:00I love God, but I don't have, I don't seem to feel like I have fear.
35:04I don't understand sometimes when it says, when the only ones that need to fear are the ones that haven't accepted Christ.
35:12Well, certainly that's true about fearing God's condemnation.
35:15But there's this idea of when you really know who you are in relation to God, that God is so all-powerful, so immense.
35:26And we are, I mean, he's infinite.
35:28And what are we compared to God?
35:31And yet he still sees us and cares about what's happening in our lives.
35:37And I think the fear of the Lord that scripture talks about, it's a terror to the wicked, but it's an awful reverence to those who love God and want to please him.
35:49And it's this awe of God, just the immensity that I think it's really talking about.
35:56And this translation, the English standards is what I've got here.
35:59I mean, that's really close to what you've got.
36:01It essentially says the same thing.
36:03But this word for instruction.
36:04Yeah, this is essentially the same as, well, it is in almost any good translation.
36:11But when you're reading yours and I'm reading mine, it's got different words.
36:17Yeah.
36:17Well, this, they all have different, yeah, every translation is going to have differences, especially in the poetic books like Proverbs and Psalms.
36:25Apparently, it's pretty difficult to translate.
36:27I don't know enough Hebrew to tell you, but I do know this word for instruction is musar.
36:34And there's a modern, fairly modern from the late Middle Ages, Jewish discipline of essentially self-improvement called musar.
36:43And the way that it's been described to me is that there are these various characteristics, and I think there are 12 of them.
36:50And these are the characteristics of a perfectly righteous person.
36:56And you evaluate yourself on each characteristic, and you say, am I too far this way, or am I too far this way?
37:04And then you try to correct yourself.
37:07And this word musar actually is talking about correction.
37:10It doesn't just mean instruction.
37:12It means correction of something wrong.
37:15The fear of the Lord is a realignment of wisdom.
37:21It's with these 12 different characteristics, as you get yourself more into the middle of where God wants you to be, you think of each characteristic as a window.
37:32And, you know, our job is to shine God's light into the world.
37:36But if our windows are not lined up, the light is blocked somewhere.
37:40And the more we get our own character in alignment with God's, the more of his light shines through us into the world.
37:47If you work through these 12 characteristics and with each, you take each one in turn and you work on this one for a while.
37:54And then, you know, you're not looking for perfection.
37:57You're just looking for a little correction.
37:59Then you move on to the next one.
38:01And you work on this one a little while, have a little course correction.
38:04And then you move on to the next one.
38:05And when you get through all 12, then you go back to the beginning and start on that first one again until eventually, you know, you're centered on each of these characteristics of a righteous person so that the world can see God through you.
38:18And the word instruction, it's good, but it's not, it doesn't really give the best meaning here.
38:25It really seems to me that focusing on the chastisement or the correction of a wrong would give a better meaning to this verse.
38:34Because if we really fear God, if we have that awe of him, that we want to be in his good graces.
38:40You can love your king, but if you know that he has life or death power over you with a single word, you want to be in alignment with his will.
38:50You don't want to be off doing your own thing.
38:52You want to be doing what he wants you to do.
38:55And the more that we get those corrections, those course corrections, and bring our own lives in alignment with God's expectations and how he sees the world, the better we're going to be.
39:05And I think that the second half of the verse, humility is really the key because when you know who you are in relationship to God, you can't help but be humble.
39:17I mean, if you are proud, if you see, you know, if you really understand who God is and you're still proud and say, I don't really need that, I can still do things my own way, then you still don't understand who God is.
39:27And you're not going to get that correction.
39:29You're not really going to be willing and open to God's course corrections until you get who God is.
39:36I used to like, that one used to be like, how can you fear God?
39:39Because I think in our culture, when we see fear, we automatically think, well, that's not good.
39:44You know, you shouldn't be fearing something.
39:46But as I thought about it and try to work through it, I try to think about, thankfully, I have a good earthly father.
39:56And I remember as a kid, both fear and my dad, now that I think back, I think about it, I feared my father and I love my father at the same time.
40:06Because a lot of the times that I didn't get into trouble, it wasn't necessarily because I was thinking of honoring my father, right?
40:15Like, oh, man, I'm not going to skip school because I'm going to put shame on my father.
40:20That was not what was going through my mind.
40:23It was like, I'm not going to skip school because I fear my father and the consequences of those things.
40:29But that doesn't mean that I disliked the man or hated him in any way, shape, or form.
40:34If anything, now that I'm older, it made me understand how much I love him even more now because I understood that his instructions were there to keep me safe.
40:45His instructions were there to show how he loves me because he loves me enough where he doesn't want me to get into trouble or any of these things.
40:53So when I get into verses like this, where I'm like, where it doesn't make any sense, I put myself in a father-son relationship with my dad.
41:04And I did fear my dad, but it's a good, healthy fear.
41:07What I call it, it's a good, healthy fear because it keeps me out of trouble.
41:11So that's the way I've seen it and that's the way it helps me understand that.
41:15AJ, doesn't instruction, though, doesn't Torah means instruction?
41:20So in this case, that's not the exact definition for that?
41:25Yeah, this word isn't Torah, it's the Musar.
41:28But yeah, Torah essentially does mean instruction.
41:31It's a little different from this one because instruction can be hypothetical.
41:37It can be like, you know, if you ever encounter this situation, here's what you should do.
41:41Whereas Musar is, you're doing this wrong, you need to straighten up.
41:45So they're very close.
41:46So what about surprises?
41:50Anything surprise anybody in this chapter?
41:53I'll start off here just to prime the pump, so to speak.
41:57I kind of hint at this in this subtitle on the slide, the joy of wisdom and sorrow of foolishness.
42:03But there are multiple verses starting in, I think, verse 13, maybe verse 12 might fit in here too.
42:13But these verses are talking about how wisdom and how associating with wise people can have an immediate and tangible impact in your life and just how happy you are.
42:26When I realize happiness isn't necessarily tangible.
42:28But it starts off with a glad heart makes a cheerful face, but a sorrow of heart, but by sorrow of heart, the spirit is crushed.
42:36Seems kind of like a tautology, like, well, of course, glad heart makes a cheerful face when you're glad you smile, right?
42:41But this is actually contrasting the extent to which an emotional state impacts your whole being, the whole soul.
42:49A glad heart comes out in the world in the form of physical and verbal expressions, the way that you speak to people, the way that you interact with people.
42:57And a sorrowful heart, if there's sorrow, like, down inside, it cuts inwardly.
43:05It's not just, I mean, whether you're cheerful or sorrowful, all of that impacts the way that you interact with the world.
43:12But that sorrow is, it feeds on itself, and it cuts inwardly and creates bad relationships, which then hurts you more, and this beats you down.
43:24And even those things, even down inside of you, which could not normally be hurt by the people or the circumstances around you, will be injured by just continual affliction, whether that's illness or whatever.
43:38But then these verses go on, and each one kind of builds on the other.
43:41They seem to be saying very similar things, but the heart of him who has understanding seeks knowledge, but the mouth of fools feed on folly.
43:50Well, the one who has understanding, seeking knowledge, he's getting joy out of seeking knowledge and gaining more wisdom, and this adds to his overall well-being, and he becomes a happier person.
44:02Whereas the fool is feeding on folly, he's bringing more foolishness into his life.
44:07Just like sorrow begets sorrow, joy begets joy, foolishness begets foolishness.
44:12All of these things are positive feedback.
44:15This reminds me of when we were learning, because we go to a Torah fellowship, sometimes about 40 miles away from us, and we were talking about this.
44:24And I remember that when we were talking about verse 30, bright eyes bring joy to the heart, good news gives health to the bones.
44:33It's like that.
44:33It's, and I didn't get that.
44:35So this is, I'm surprised because I'm getting it.
44:38Like, when your wife walks up to you like, like this, and then turns and her girlfriend calls and you're like, hey, babe, what's up?
44:46And then she's looking at you like this.
44:48And you're like, you know, the whole difference, bright eyes.
44:52Like when you're trying to bring up someone, it brings joy to the heart.
44:56When even the way you look, do you, you know, when we were learning our marriage, we were doing a work in our women's group.
45:01We were talking about how we speak to our husbands or the men in our lives, our sons, our coworkers, whomever, but mostly our partners.
45:08Do you, before a major thing, even that you're upset or frustrated or concerned or afraid about, you're not sure, look in the mirror and look at the way that just say it, how you were going to say it and watch yourself.
45:20So watch your eyes.
45:22That's a good idea.
45:23Because the light in your eyes, or is it darkness?
45:27Is it going to bring love, joy?
45:29Is it going to bring good news, health to the bones?
45:33Or is it going to completely bring sorrow?
45:36So that kind of made me realize kind of how, how that, that made me get that first.
45:42Yeah, that is, that is good.
45:43Because yeah, the way that we look and interact with other people brings either sorrow or joy to them.
45:49And even if there's turmoil in you, if you try not to put that out into the world or to people around you, those people are going to be happier, which is going to help you be happier too.
46:01And then there's also mentioning mirror, and you think that there's also kind of a reflexive mechanism going on here too.
46:06If you think of the idea of the light of the eyes, being how you see the world, if you choose to see the world through more positive lenses, if you choose to look for the good in other people, instead of looking for the negative, instead of being critical.
46:21When you feel like, I know this guy's screwing up, try to rethink it to say, what's he doing right?
46:29Is there anything that I can praise him for?
46:32And that's going to, you're just not going to be as miserable.
46:35You are going to make yourself happier.
46:37Not just because you're making him happier and that makes your relationship better, but just because now you've got a better outlook on the world.
46:43And you're not making yourself as miserable.
46:45I had a fellowship I was at Colorado years ago.
46:48The pastor's wife would always say, illustrate this kind of thing by saying, whenever somebody whips past her or cuts her off on the highway, she tries to imagine what terrible or urgent mission this person is on.
47:03Somebody's hurt.
47:04They're trying to get to the hospital.
47:06He's late for his own wedding.
47:07There's some really good reason for this guy to be behaving in this obnoxious manner.
47:12And, you know, it's probably not true.
47:14So some people are just obnoxious, but, you know, at least it makes you feel better, even if he never sees it.
47:22Was that a goosefraba I saw there, Sarah?
47:25It was kind of a let it roll off.
47:27Like, yeah, you feel it, but instead of internalizing it, you can let it roll off.
47:31You can just pray, say a quick little, I wish the best for you.
47:34I pray the best for you.
47:35Let it roll off.
47:36Because sometimes that's the only thing you can do.
47:39Process your prayer rather than getting angry.
47:41Okay, so are there any others that really speak to you that stand out?
47:47I was looking at verse 17 and 18, and I thought it was kind of funny because better is a portion of vegetables where there is love than a fattened ox served with hatred.
47:59I like that.
47:59You know, I love the idea of food being brought into this picture.
48:03It's obvious that a fattened ox is better than vegetables.
48:08And, of course, this makes me kind of laugh because there's such an agenda on the vegan left right now.
48:15But not because vegetables aren't good, but because obviously people prefer them.
48:20And so this idea of better is a portion of vegetables where there is love, meaning not everybody wants to eat their vegetables.
48:26But when served with love, that's a good thing.
48:29And it is better than a fattened ox served with hatred.
48:33That's kind of cool.
48:34But then, like, the next verse, it goes into, like, a hot-tempered person stirs up strife.
48:38And I thought it was funny that, like, it's almost like it's, like, these kind of cooking analogies, like serving and then stirring.
48:46So there's some kind of connection there, apparently, you know, like just making kind of almost a thematic kind of connection at a different level.
48:55And then this is where, like, the person's hot-tempered, they're stirring up strife.
49:00So I just thought that was funny.
49:02No, I think that's wonderful.
49:03How did I not even notice that?
49:04You're good.
49:06I've got to meet you one day, man.
49:08That is interesting.
49:09I don't think I would have looked at it that way.
49:11But, yeah.
49:12Here's a fun one, too.
49:13Verse 19.
49:15Way of a sluggard is like a hedge of thorns, but the path of the upright is a level highway.
49:20I know that any of us who have had teenagers have had times when it's impossible to get them to do anything.
49:30And even though you know that what you want them to do is for their own good, they just sit there.
49:36And it is like you can't get ahead in life if you're not actually moving.
49:43And so the sluggard is like a hedge of thorns because he just sits there and gets in the way.
49:50And trying to work your way through this, if you've got, say, you've got a project to work on and you've got somebody who just refuses to pull their weight, it's like you can't just leave them.
50:03You've got to drag them along with you.
50:05You've got to make sure that somebody is getting this work done.
50:08And so it's like trying to hack your way through hedges instead of sticking to the path.
50:14Whereas if you've got a team full of people who are willing to work and they want to get to it and learn things and accomplish things, everything just goes.
50:26Okay.
50:26Any other verses?
50:29Nothing in particular?
50:30I was looking at 22.
50:32I really like this one.
50:34You know, without consultation, plans are frustrated, but with many counselors, they succeed.
50:39So just the idea of taking input from other people, asking and seeking input from other people, especially, can obviously help your plans to succeed.
50:54So seeking wise counsel is important if you're trying to succeed at anything.
51:01Going it alone is not really always as successful.
51:05A lot of people who talk about success in life, in the world, there's a saying, if you want to go fast, go alone.
51:12If you want to go far, go with others.
51:16And that has a lot to do with like how people succeed.
51:19And most people who have succeeded in any way have usually done so because of not just their own, like doing it on their own.
51:29Like people like to talk about being self-made and that kind of thing if they're really proud.
51:34But the reality is that nobody's self-made because somebody's always helping somebody along the way.
51:39So like wise people, instead of just like waiting for others to help them along the way, they seek out other people, like people who are even, you know, irritating sometimes in the way of asking for help from like a lot of people, people who are really go-getters sometimes ask a lot of people for stuff.
52:01But the reality is, is that they know that input from other people and wise counsel is really important.
52:10And sometimes they, you know, they just want something.
52:12But ultimately, just this idea of like, it's probably good to err on the side of like, just asking for more counsel.
52:23It's not a bad idea.
52:24So, Sarah.
52:26Yeah.
52:26Within real estate, we have to make sure you get as many eyes as possible on the form before you sign it.
52:32But, you know, in context in this chapter, it's not just, you can't just ask advice from anybody.
52:39Because, you know, it talks about how fools will lead you astray and fools get away.
52:43But how do you figure out?
52:45Where do you find good counsel?
52:47How do you know who to ask?
52:49Well, it depends on what you're doing, obviously.
52:51If you're trying to accomplish something in a particular area, the first thing I would think is like, you're going to go to somebody who's done what you are trying to do or who has done something like what you're trying to do.
53:06Like, whether you're looking for a mentor or you're looking for somebody to help you figure out the path or whatever, you know, you're actually going to start maybe with that kind of perspective.
53:17But then, obviously, you're going to try to see, like, not only have they done it before, but, like, were they totally successful and be able to see, like, what their faults were.
53:27You obviously have to know people.
53:29You have to at least know their reputation and their certain criteria.
53:33But, obviously, you'd have to know that the criteria or the character of that person displays some kind of wisdom.
53:38So, yeah, I would think you'd probably have to know something about where they came from, too, for advice on business.
53:46And you don't go to somebody necessarily who is successful in business.
53:50You go to someone who has become successful in business, who started out relatively where you are and gotten to where you want to be.
53:58If you want to get healthy, you don't go to somebody who's never been sick.
54:01You go to somebody who has gotten healthy and apply that to whatever arena.
54:08Exciting for me.
54:09I also think that if we put ourselves in the company as a rule of, like, wise counsel, like, we are careful who we choose as friends, who the people we spend the most time with, and do the research and figuring out who these people are.
54:26And then we can, over our lives, make sure we collect the right people around us.
54:31It not only helps and serves us, it helps and serves them, our children, their children.
54:37And in the end, it's a whole, like, community.
54:41And we can all be each other's wise counsel if we all turn to the right counsel.
54:46We can all become that for someone else as well.
54:49Yeah, there's a point.
54:50First, it was mentioned, actually, the very next verse.
54:5323, to make an apt answer is a joy to a man.
54:56So you listen to wise counsel, and then you are able to give good counsel, and you get joy yourself out of being able to do that.
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