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00:00Strongly cautioned, this program contains some material that is unsuitable for young children.
00:30Beyond the Tape, we'll be back after these messages.
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05:19Welcome to Beyond the TV.
05:34I'm your host, Mark Bassan.
05:35Of course, welcome to our viewers across Trinidad and Tobago.
05:39Our international viewers and of course our brothers and sisters in the Caribbean and the Isles of Grenada.
05:46It's day two of 16 days of activism against gender-based violence.
05:53And of course, today's also Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
05:57And with us today is none other than a tenient law and director of policy and community support at the Ministry of Homeland Security.
06:06None other than Zaki Rally.
06:07Well, Mark, I see that you're maturing and you're getting it, you know, correct.
06:12You know, every time, you know, you introduce me, you know, you are continuing to demonstrate the clarity of the office or offices, you know, that I engage.
06:25But again, it's indeed a great honor and privilege to be here and I'll tell you why.
06:29With us, you know, I just want to recognize, Jaki, if you are listening to us, I think your choice, you know, must be commended this afternoon.
06:41When Mark came in, you know, Mark was immediately distracted.
06:45You know, as Amata Afaki was pointing out particular items for me to pay attention to.
06:51But, you know, I want to join with Mark, Jaki, you know, to acknowledge your beauty, you know, in this time of the season.
07:00And I hope that in meeting you, members of the public, that similarly, if not, you know, within your television set, but somewhere within your home, you know, there's some form of light that is, you know, illuminating.
07:17You know, to be able to, you know, give that early notice, you know, that our season is approaching us.
07:26And I hope that, you know, we live to see that season and many more.
07:30So, Mark, you know, I thought it was important to recognize the decorations and perhaps we may have to assist Jaki in relation to the cost of these items.
07:38And the citizenry who is looking on and listening, you know, if you can further beautify it, you know, it's not an inducement.
07:46But, you know, feel free to reach out to Jaki for any advice or any other contribution that you would want to make.
07:52But to the law enforcement agencies, you know, it's a pleasure to be here and, you know, represent you in different capacities.
08:01My citizenry of Trinidad and Tobago, those who are viewing and listening out of the jurisdiction, good evening to you.
08:09You know, Mark, you have raised a very, very important topic with reference to domestic violence.
08:16And, you know, every single year, the international community recognize the area of domestic violence.
08:24You know, and I'll be very brief, but very strong.
08:26I'd like to begin by indicating, you know, to all of us that when we share a relationship, we have not purchased the other individual.
08:42And I want to repeat that.
08:43The operative word is that we share a relationship, meaning that there will be an opportunity to be able to share each other's perspective, share and compromise in particular situation.
09:05So, I want us to have that at the forefront when we are looking at recognizing domestic violence.
09:12Because, Mark, if you look at, you know, the statistics and if you look at or do a close examination, the fact that they have dubbed it domestic, you realize that there is some level of intimacy.
09:25There is a lot of emotions.
09:26And if we are not careful and we are conducting ourselves, like if we purchase the other party, then you will be basically treating that person as a product.
09:38And we must recognize that there is a human being that we are sharing a relationship with.
09:42A human being that requires the respect for his or her dignity, whether it be an adult, a child, a dependent.
09:49Respect for the dignity of the human being is of extreme importance.
09:54And finally, Mark, my simple position this afternoon is that, you know, while we recognize it internationally, even from a domestic context, I would like to see swift action taken to continue to strengthen our Domestic Violence Act and to complement it to be able to ensure that we achieve a great level of success with the enforcement of the Domestic Violence Act.
10:22I think that recognition really should be drawing us to be identifying gaps or looking for ways to strengthen and really make the statement that we want to make.
10:33But to the citizens' reaction that are in Tobago and for the couples, persons who are in domestic situation, please, I ask you, sit back, let good sense prevail.
10:43Mark, when you're in a situation where you may become very heated, it's important for you to just step back, you know, maybe go to the face sink, take some water, rinse your face, maybe recite something that is spiritual and just stay calm.
11:00But that simple moment that you just walk away from that situation, you know, will start to allow you to think clearly.
11:08But it's a very important matter, and I'm happy that we have, you know, placed a lot of emphasis on it, Mark.
11:12And, you know, I hope and pray that the whole purpose and reason for the recognition is achieved, you know, in terms of actions, positive actions that are required to be taken.
11:25Well, just to touch on, expand on what you have said there, one of the frequently asked questions, and we had it up earlier on, is what is emotional abuse?
11:35Emotional abuse includes undermining a person's sense of self-worth through constant criticism, belittling one's abilities, name-calling or other verbal abuse, damaging a partner's relationship with the children, or not letting a person, sorry, a partner see friends and family.
11:53You know, Mark, just looking at that definition, and Jackie, please, if you can, you know, assist me to look at that provision again, or that notice that you have placed.
12:03You see that latter part, in terms of not letting a partner see friends and family.
12:09I want to make a comparison, I should say, an analysis, a very critical analysis.
12:15While we may be looking at the issue of domestic violence, the latter part of that particular provision
12:20actually impacts a person's right to his private and family life.
12:28That's a very significant matter.
12:29So you see within one of the grounds, emotional and psychological abuse, you are seen within the definition,
12:37you've seen not letting a partner see friends and family.
12:40In other words, denying that person that right to family.
12:43And that's a very significant matter.
12:45So if you was wondering whether domestic violence and this particular aspect of it impacts rights, there it is,
12:52and I can point you immediately to it.
12:54And it means, therefore, that, as I indicated before, you didn't purchase that individual mark.
13:01In other words, you have no freehold entitlement to that person.
13:05You're sharing a relationship, but that person still have deeply grounded rights.
13:12And one of it, we saw, right to family members.
13:16So if we are finding ourselves in a situation where we are infringing on a person's right to see their family,
13:22to see and interact with their family, let us check ourselves.
13:26We may just be bothering on the area of emotional abuse, which is a very serious matter.
13:32But Mark, thank you very much for showing, and Jackie, for that notice.
13:35No doubt.
13:35And I think we have some global statistics to share with the, so the global statistics there.
13:41One in three women experience gender-based violence in their lifetime.
13:4516 to 58% of women and girls face digital violence.
13:49And 90 to 95% of deepfake videos are sexual images of women.
13:54So just some global statistics there to share with our viewers as well to underlie what we are speaking about here.
14:01Well, let's go back again to the, Jackie, my apologies for engaging you this afternoon in any way that I'm doing.
14:09Let's look at the first limb, Mark.
14:11One in three women experience gender-based violence in their lifetime.
14:15So let us be frank.
14:18This issue of domestic violence basically features in every home.
14:23Let us not be naive to it.
14:24And it can be a simple situation where there's a misunderstanding and there's a difficulty to meet a resolution.
14:29But what is important is that if, in fact, there's a misunderstanding or the symptoms of a domestic dispute or, as we call it, the emotional context.
14:41I'm not looking at domestic violence from a physical context.
14:44In my view, that's totally out of the equation.
14:47I'm looking at it from an emotional, psychological.
14:49So you have seen early symptoms.
14:51What is important for us to recognize as a society, as a region, as an international community is not that one in three women experience it.
15:00The question is how do we respond to it so that it would not be a situation where it's manifesting itself, moving from emotional, psychological, and the most deadly of all, physical abuse that can lead into death.
15:13And we have seen murder, suicides, over the couple months and over the couple years.
15:18We have seen that.
15:19So, you know, the point I want to drive home is that let us not be naive.
15:23There are going to be conflicts, Mark.
15:24There are going to be disputes.
15:26We are going to be finding ourselves bordering on domestic violence, domestic issues from our emotional context because we are human beings.
15:34That's how we are built.
15:35The importance is how do we respond to it when we recognize, hey, something is happening.
15:41That requires the maturity of the both individuals or the individuals in the home to recognize, listen, let us find an amicable way of dealing with this.
15:49And I've just shared a simple break mark.
15:52Going to the face sink, rinsing your face, probably reciting something spiritual to get your thoughts together.
15:59And when you respond, you realize that you're a bit calm to be able to entertain the other person.
16:04So, a very sensitive area because emotions are flaring, because there is what?
16:09Heart involved.
16:11And when heart is involved, you cannot see the heart.
16:13So, we need to be very careful.
16:15We need to be very responsible.
16:16And Mark is so coincidental.
16:18One of the other limbs, Jackie, that you showed a while ago in terms of the digital aspect.
16:24I know in the other segment, I'll show you the danger of where digital and the whole aspect of the Internet in another context in a short while.
16:34All right.
16:34It's day 133 of the state of emergency.
16:38We quickly want to take you through the figures.
16:40Number of operations, 9,697.
16:42Target priority offenders, 3,104.
16:45Searches conducted, 64,943.
16:48Traffic operations, 6,797.
16:51Total persons arrested, 4,190.
16:53Total persons charged, 2,370.
16:56Traffic offenses detected, 36,726.
17:00Farms recovered, total 227.
17:03Arise there in pistols of 105.
17:05Ammunition recovered in total, 2,997.
17:08Arise there in 0.22 of 163 rounds.
17:12Dangerous drug seized, 814,178.21 grams of cannabis, 10,162.87 grams of cocaine.
17:21Estacy and molly remains the same.
17:23Well, Mark, again, you know, let me recognize the efforts of the law enforcement agencies and the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
17:31And I urge, you know, all parties, both the public sector, the private sector, the general civil society, NGOs, and the individuals to continue to make their contribution to build on those statistics to ensure that we preserve public safety and security in Trinidad and Tobago.
17:52Yes, indeed.
17:53All right, let's take a quick look now with our headlines.
18:24So those are some of the headlines over the last 24 hours.
18:28We're going to take a short break.
18:29And when we come back, we'll have more.
18:30Stay with us.
19:03And we'll be right back.
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23:35welcome back to be on the tape i'm your host mark berson of course joined today by a tenured law
23:39zaheer ali director of policy and community support at the homeland security ministry
23:44and uh we have some uh you know some information uh some another operation in the prisons yes this
23:51one quite alarming of course uh from the trinidad and tobago police service officers crawled through
23:57prison vents to find massive contraband stash after crawling through several meters of cramped cell
24:03ceiling vents at the maximum security prison in aruca last evening a group of highly trained officers
24:09returned with a massive haul of contraband right there first were part of an intelligence
24:14led operation coordinated by commissioner police alistair guvaro acting commissioner of prisons
24:18hidden for deputy commissioner of police susette martin and senior superintendents raymond tom
24:23maynard wilson and gift the extensive search in the prison's ventilation system
24:29was conducted between 5 30 and 9 last night and the dealer the following finds i'll just read some of
24:36them 62 cellular phones 235 packs of cigarettes three kilograms of marijuana eight grams of cocaine
24:44a large quantity of wrapping paper quantity of charges and usb cords three screwdrivers one hammer
24:50one four inch carving knife one switch protector one kettle one g-shock watch one sports watch one
24:56shortened cutlass two thousand and twelve dollars electrical circuits powered by rechargeable batteries
25:05headsets four digital skills one wi-fi box two power banks one bottle of men's cologne a quantity of
25:13razor blades and three tattoo needles right the operation was supervised by senior superintendent
25:18president lee davis superintendent modest asp stanley sergeant caesar of the northern north gang
25:26unit corporate brown of the northern north task force corporal williams on corporate height of the dcp
25:32operations team and included f uh police constables fabragas i think it is uh parsons gibson and
25:39gipson and stanley and wpc joseph and members of the prison emergency response unit i think it's february
25:46sorry my bad um so i wanted to point it out you know every single officer there on that operation we really
25:53want to thank you because uh you look at some of the things that were discovered here a wi-fi box and
26:00things like that which allows prisoners even if the cell phone jammers are blocked that is wi-fi is a radio
26:09signal which still allows you to communicate outside well you know mark you you know you're on point and
26:14i think that's a very strong statement um from the trinidad and tobago police service and the prison
26:20service um and the officers that you have identified led by the commissioner of police um and the acting
26:27commissioner of prisons um both coming together to spare this operation a very strong statement and i'm
26:32sure members of the public looking at this fine you know will definitely be very very concerned um we
26:41are in a state of emergency and you are still seeing um the fine that we are seeing in these circumstances
26:46and you know um i want to acknowledge the work of the boat agencies um and perhaps any intelligence that
26:54they may have received that would have prompted this operation and mark i know you would have spoken
26:59about the monies that were found um in particular but the true value of this fine yeah is the should be
27:08directed to saving lives and i've said on this program not once not twice but many times that those devices
27:15those electronic devices and we have seen on the end based on the intelligence that those are the
27:20instrument in which very um deadly hits you know is or are communicated through so again the true value
27:28is not really the money and the cost of the cigarettes or the cost of the cellular phones but what the
27:32cellular phones and electronic devices can be used um to orchestrate so again um i salute you know the
27:39excellent work of the law enforcement agencies well as i said it was interconnected because the wi-fi box
27:43allows you to yes use whatsapp and all these things and you can call out yes uh that is different from
27:49my actual uh cellular line a lot of people don't know that and i think a former prison commissioner also
27:54explained that to me uh about two or three years ago so you have that accessibility yes in terms of wi-fi
28:01connectivity you can still call out yes it doesn't deter the uh the cell jammers that is not yeah which is a
28:08different line yeah most certainly mark and you know um again there's some very heavy policy positions
28:13with reference to that fine um in terms of looking at you know other ways and means in which we need
28:18to start treating with this particular problem um but you know as time goes on you know probably um
28:23you will see um you know additional conversation that relates to these matters well just uh keep with
28:30police operations of course uh there was an exercise conducted today between the hours of 6 a.m and
28:3511 this morning officers of the siu special investigations unit together with officers from
28:42the interagency task force they obtained information about a particular vehicle uh heading westbound along
28:48the churchill roosevelt highway in the vicinity of the ibis building opposite quartz a search of the
28:54vehicle was conducted which resulted in the discovery of 40 packets of compressed colombian creepy marijuana
29:01that's you're seeing it there weighing 20.74 kilograms estimated street value 4.4 million dollars
29:10and uh one male suspect has been taken into custody with this fight well similarly um mark i want to
29:18acknowledge the due diligence of the siu and other supported agencies the iatf and other um law enforcement
29:24agencies you know um i will urge the respective investigative departments you know to do diligent
29:32investigations to ensure that the single person that has been arrested um manifests itself into um
29:41other persons who may be responsible whether directly or indirectly i should say let me use the criminal terms
29:46whether as principle or whether as accessories um or even a conspiracy um as the case may be um but again
29:53it's good to see the detection and mark with the whole geopolitical situation where we are fighting um
29:59drug trafficking and we are fighting um drug cartels you know when you see drugs enter in the land
30:06you know you could imagine the interest that other um groups and the urgency in which um they will be
30:13placing in relation to those narcotics i'm happy to see that it's in the hands of law enforcement
30:17and in diligent investigation uh on the way with reference to persons who may be responsible
30:22all right let's take a short break and when we come back we'll have more for you stay with us
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35:17Welcome back to Beyond the Tape. I'm your host, Mark Musson, of course, joined today by our tenient law, Zaheer Ali, Director of Policy and Community Support at the Homeland Security Ministry.
35:43Guess what? Your favorite, favorite section or segment. Well, let's see. Voice of People and Princess Sam, let's go.
36:13The first is, how do you feel about the extension of the state of emergency and have you noticed a reduction in crime?
36:23To be honest, I haven't noticed a reduction in crime. I see it's like the same thing that's just getting worse. I haven't seen no reduction in crime right now.
36:33And you haven't seen no reduction in serious crime either, overall?
36:37No, I haven't.
36:40What do you think police could be done to detail persons from committing crimes like home invasions?
36:47I believe that they should have some more, like, street patrol, because sometimes, you know, you will call, you will call them and they will take a while to come.
36:55Yes, so I find, like, the response should be swift and they should have more control in the neighborhood.
37:01What do you think persons could do to protect themselves from home invasions?
37:06Right now, we need weapons, handguns, secure your homes more. But we need, we need handguns.
37:13Yeah, to secure yourself. Because, you know, it had an incident happened up St. Mary's there, right?
37:20There were a couple home invasions, they come and they rape the woman, kill her, and then kill the husband after.
37:25Yeah.
37:26So I find, I believe that we should really, people should start to get handguns now to protect themselves.
37:30And we should learn how to use the handguns properly, so they can protect themselves from getting harmed too.
37:36Well said. Let me ask you, what do you think communities can do together to reduce crime in specific areas, like in your community?
37:43What do you think you all could do as a community?
37:47We should really be honest with one another and come together.
37:50And, like, it has some places, we have, we have crime watch where the community, um, does have regular meetings and things.
37:57And we should have, like, neighborhood watch.
38:00But it all depends with the police, we should have cooperation with the police as well.
38:03Mm-hmm.
38:04But they really have lack of trust with the officers and them because...
38:08I am.
38:09But we need to come together as a community.
38:12What's your take on the stand your ground legislation? We're talking about home invasions. What's your take on that?
38:18You stand your ground legislation that they want to bring to Parliament.
38:20Mm-hmm.
38:21Where persons can actually, if, if, defend themselves against intruders in their home.
38:26What, what, what do you think about the stand your ground? Yeah, what's your take on that?
38:30Um...
38:32Is it a good, is it a good move to bring the stand your ground legislation to allow persons to defend themselves if armed persons come onto their property?
38:40Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree with that.
38:41Mm-hmm.
38:42Yeah, I agree with that. I, I strongly agree with that, yeah.
38:45Because people now, they're just tithing and killing now. They're just tithing and going.
38:50They're tithing and killing, young.
38:51Mm-hmm.
38:52So, yeah.
38:59Voice of the people, attorney, I'll let you comment.
39:03You know, Mark, very strong statements from the, um, interviewee, um, citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, you know, making a very strong, um, request for handguns.
39:15Um, that is concerning to me.
39:17You know, when, you know, you have to make that request, um, in an effort to defend yourself, um, is unfortunate.
39:23Um, you know, with reference to the stand your ground, you know, I know that it's, if not in the parliament, it's close.
39:30Um, so we should see that coming on the stream soon in terms of looking at the debate in relation to that matter.
39:33And with reference to the, she used the word cooperation with law enforcement, um, a very significant matter.
39:40Trust and confidence in the police service is important.
39:42And, you know, while we have, you know, seven odd thousand oath officers, you know, I always like to emphasize that as a community, you know, everyone should see themselves as policing their community, policing their neighborhood, um, and sharing intelligence and information.
39:58Um, but yes, um, her statements, her responses, you know, is well taken.
40:03I'm certain that the decision makers who are looking at the program will recognize how a particular citizen in a particular geographical area feels about the crime situation.
40:11Um, albeit, you know, there's a lot of effort and you have mentioned a few successes a while ago, um, but yet persons in the wider public, you know, still calling for greater, um, response from the law enforcement agency.
40:23So it's always welcome to see how best we can, you know, make our, um, adjustments or improve in our policing efforts.
40:29Yes, indeed.
40:30All right.
40:31We're going to take a quick break.
40:32And when we come back, we'll have more.
40:33Stay with us.
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45:20Welcome back to the On The Tape.
45:34I'm your host, Mark Masson.
45:35Of course, joined today by Director of Policy and Community Support at the Homeland Security Ministry, Zaheer Ali, also attorney at law.
45:44And I know that you wanted to address a serious situation.
45:47And the police commissioner would have raised this issue yesterday about using social media platforms, inciting persons, saying things that might be violent, etc., etc.
46:01And, of course, he's saying that you can say things, freedom of expression, but they are guided by persons who are trying to incite violence or make any kind of inflammatory remarks that might provoke some kind of reaction by a person or persons.
46:19Well, Mark, thank you very much.
46:21And, you know, I ask the citizens just to, you know, to pay attention to what I'm going to say respectfully this afternoon.
46:30You know, I've seen the commentary, you know, I've seen the response from members of the public.
46:34And, you know, I also recognize the importance of striking a proper balance.
46:39But I want us to appreciate and, you know, put, you know, the statements, the press release from the police commissioner and, you know, from other authorities.
46:46And, you know, a couple of days ago, I spoke on this matter as well, you know, on TV6 Morning Edition.
46:53And I want to simply say that the strong man or the strong woman is one who, when he or she is aggrieved or is angry or feels a particular way about the situation, maintains his or her self-control.
47:08And I want to begin there as simple as possible.
47:10So, you maintain your self-control, you control yourself, sorry, in a situation where you may be aggrieved or you may feel that you are wrong.
47:20It's important to, you know, exercise that level of control and, you know, you know, to conjunct it with some level of responsibility.
47:27As simple as possible, Mark.
47:29And secondly, when you focus on the rule of law, the rule of law has a purpose.
47:37And the purpose is to ensure that there's order and there's a just society in simple terms.
47:44And I want to focus on the word order where the rule of law is concerned.
47:47Now, stemming from the rule of law, the police commissioner and other authorities would have made a reference to provisions that Parliament, the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago, have placed in our law books.
48:03So, as a law enforcement body, we are pointing you in relation to the provisions that exist.
48:10And that's by way of example.
48:13We have the Summary Offenses Act.
48:15We have the Sedition Act.
48:20We have the Offenses Against the Person Act.
48:24And then, in a state of emergency, we have the Emergency Powers Regulations, which has a lifetime.
48:30And by identifying these pieces of legislation, there are provisions within these legislation.
48:36And in the interest of time, I cannot go to every single provision.
48:38But it's to generate the point, Ma, that is not something that we wake up on the morning to implement.
48:47It's the law of the land.
48:48The rule of law must prevail.
48:51And as responsible law enforcement agencies, we are bringing to the attention of members of the public that while you have a right to expression of freedom and opinion,
49:00which, as an attorney, I will always advocate to ensure persons enjoy that freedom of expression and opinion,
49:05when it reaches the stage of acts of criminality, in other words, simply put, where it's inciting violence, it's inciting public disorder,
49:17it's a seditious intention statement.
49:20That is when serious concern steps in.
49:24So, I want to try and see if we can clarify it faster.
49:28Think maturely.
49:30Think responsibly.
49:30And we must always understand as well, that if we are not careful and persons are allowed to breach the criminal law,
49:38it might not only resonate as a statement, Mark, we live in a society that is charged in many different ways.
49:47And if we are not careful, we do not know who may act on the statement that can lead to not a statement being seditious,
49:56not a statement being prejudicial to public safety, but an actual consequence from the statement.
50:04And that is when we need to be very, very concerned, because, Mark, you do not know where you or your family.
50:10So, you may be making a statement and you're in a particular area.
50:13You don't know who will seize the moment, who that may have influenced to act in an overt manner that can cause destruction,
50:22to only know that maybe your wife, your husband, your child is probably coming from a particular area,
50:28and that's the area that is faced with the casualty.
50:33So, members of the public, you know, I feel your pain, you know, when this issue has been mentioned in terms of the opportunity we have
50:41to be able to open up on social media, but at the same time, we ought to be responsible and recognize,
50:46and I need to repeat, we are enforcing the law of the land, we are recognizing the importance of the rule of law
50:53and the purpose for the rule of law is for order and to ensure that there is a just society,
50:58and recognizing that, albeit, we are in a state of emergency, and yes, there is a particular provision to deal with statements that are prejudicial,
51:05both on oral and on a social media posting context, but there are other laws that existed long before the state of emergency,
51:13which the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago, and if we didn't understand the Parliament,
51:16it means every single constituency was represented in the Parliament when these laws were tabled,
51:26assented to, in some cases, proclaimed.
51:28And finally, Mark, I want to give the comfort to members of the public,
51:33that even if there is a suspected breach of the law, and the police investigates the law,
51:38due process still has to take its part, and I have tabled a very important office, Mark,
51:45the Director of Public Prosecution, especially when we are weighing constitutional rights,
51:51freedom of expression and opinion, versus the right of safety and security.
51:55The ultimate office, and may I say in the Sedition Act that I spoke about,
52:00it requires the consent of the DPP in order to initiate criminal proceedings.
52:05So, if you are looking for some level of protection, there are protection within the legal framework,
52:11and I have advised strongly that even in emergency powers regulations,
52:15TTPS should still give consideration to have an engagement and a consultation,
52:20if issues of statements that are prejudicial to public safety and security,
52:24that we put it in the hands of an independent office to properly weigh the right of freedom of expression,
52:29and whether the criminal law may have been breached,
52:34and we have to protect and promote the right to safety and security.
52:37So, members of the public, please, let us work together,
52:41let us ensure that we do the simple things properly at all times,
52:46and remember where I begin, Mark, that the strong man or the strong woman
52:49is one who, if he becomes aggrieved, or he feels that he is unfairly treated,
52:56that he exercised self-control.
52:59Yes, thanks so much for clarifying that, Ms. Ali.
53:02We have a caller on the line.
53:03Caller, good evening, and welcome to be on the tape.
53:05Yes, good evening.
53:06Good evening.
53:07Officer, I listened to you, I listened to you on the program,
53:10and it's very, very important that it's social media.
53:13People want to say what they want, when they want, and how they want,
53:15and they have, you know, lost to deal with it.
53:17My question is, with the presence of the SOE, a PDO has to be used in order to do something
53:25for somebody who makes some sort of remark, PDO, and with the absence of the SCU,
53:31how will we be able to deal with the persons who breached this law?
53:34That's the first point.
53:35The second point is, the guy who went to the $100,000, I thought I kept the person,
53:42but, and you said, clean on this program, do not make yourself a soft target.
53:47I think he made himself a talk, you know, a soft target by Allah,
53:50when this man snatches money.
53:52My last point is, the law is supposed to deal with those in Parliament too,
53:59when they're saying things and when they're doing things,
54:01they have to be very careful, they should be dealt with also,
54:03because when the picture runs looking at you, and you behave like that,
54:06they feel they could behave the same way.
54:08All the best to all of you.
54:09Your decorations look very, very nice.
54:12All the best to all of you.
54:13Thanks, Senator Kola.
54:14Well, we have about three minutes, so go ahead.
54:16Well, thank you very much, Kola.
54:17Again, three important issues.
54:19Mark, the issue with the preventive detention order that she spoke about,
54:23that's an option, that's a legal option that exists under the emergency powers regulations,
54:28where the minister has a discretion based on intelligence and information
54:32that may be provided to him from the police,
54:34that a person may be acting in a manner prejudicial to public safety,
54:39or likely to act in a manner prejudicial to public safety and security.
54:43And if that intelligence and that information, cogent intelligence and information,
54:47the application can be moved to the minister for consideration,
54:51if he's satisfied, to grant a preventative detention order to prevent the person acting in a manner prejudicial to public safety.
54:57So in the particular instance that was referred to,
55:00I am aware that investigations are unfolding,
55:03but investigations are very unique matters.
55:08And, you know, you want to ensure that there's cogent evidence,
55:11and there's a real prospect of a conviction to take someone before a court of competent jurisdiction.
55:16But in the interim, you have other legal options that you can use,
55:19because we do not know, and I cannot disclose on public television,
55:22I would not do something like that,
55:23but the police will be possessed with very credible intelligence and information
55:29beyond what the public may know about a particular individual or a particular group
55:32that may cause them to take a particular step,
55:35and take a particular step, members of the public, in your interest.
55:40The police should be acting in your interest and the interest of safety and security.
55:44So I just wanted to respond to that first point.
55:46It doesn't mean that you see a PDO being utilized.
55:49It doesn't mean that subsequently you will not see a criminal charge.
55:52And I will urge law enforcement, in my multiple capacity,
55:55to ensure that they are diligently conducting investigations
55:59to gather evidence with persons who are on PDOs
56:02with the expectation and anticipation
56:06to have those persons placed before a court of competent jurisdiction.
56:09And the other two issues, Mark, with reference to, again, she directs us to the Parliament,
56:14and the Parliament has its legal framework to be able to deal with persons
56:18who may not be conforming with parliamentary privileges.
56:22And, you know, I'll leave that at that point in time.
56:25All right. So we are certainly thankful for you spending the last hour with us.
56:29And I know that it was quite a lot to share in a very short space of time, no doubt.
56:35And we are hopeful that the important information you have related to the public,
56:40they will understand the severity and the importance of how social media operates
56:48and that entire, you know, the dynamics of it and what you can see and what not to see,
56:53not that you can't express yourself, but be responsible in doing so.
56:57And, you know, Mark, just to top it up this afternoon quickly,
57:01we have looked at publishing on social media and in terms of the freedom of expression,
57:05we are seeing in the law books on Section 49 an offence of obscene language.
57:10That's our freedom of expression.
57:11But the law recognizes that obscene language can provoke other persons to breach the peace.
57:16So we have to understand the whole thinking behind the law.
57:19But as always, it's a pleasure to be here, Mark,
57:21and I hope and pray that the citizenry really exercise a level of maturity
57:26and be responsible in how we behave in the best interest of everyone,
57:30particularly our nation's children.
57:32Yes, indeed. And again, I just want to thank you, of course,
57:35for spending the last hour with us.
57:38And please leave the Christmas decorations on the table.
57:41Do not leave with them.
57:42Of course, I know you like them very much.
57:44But, you know, really, again, a pleasure.
57:47Thank you, as always, Mark.
57:48And, you know, again, I want to endorse the beauties that we have seen here this afternoon.
57:54All right.
57:54Remember, we run tonight at 11.
57:56C.O.T. 2 reruns tomorrow, 1 at 11 o'clock, 1 at 2 p.m.
58:00The TV6 News is up next, and we'll see you back here tomorrow at 6.
58:03Have a good one.
58:04Just ahead in the TV6 News, a U.S. military plane makes a stopover in Tobago.
58:28The Prime Minister says the visit had to do with the airport and was not a military exercise.
58:34A call for a referendum to decide on the CCJ as this country's final court of appeal.
58:40We'll tell you more in the TV6 News.
58:42In one 2018 study, 50% of victims once believed that their abuse was justified.
58:50This October, challenge harmful attitudes, foster healthy relationships, support grassroots groups that promote gender equality.
58:57And if you or someone you know is in danger, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline or seek shelter.
59:04Let's build a future free from violence.
59:06Let's build a future free from violence.
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