From Holiness to Confusion: The New Face of American Christianity | Christian Thomaßen 474 - video Dailymotion

William Branham Historical Research

John and Christian dive into the State of Theology 2025 survey and uncover surprising contradictions in what American Christians believe about God, the Bible, and salvation. From the question “Is Jesus God?” to debates about sin, gender, and truth itself, the results expose a growing divide between biblical foundations and cultural Christianity. John reflects on how Pentecostal and Charismatic teachings have reshaped people’s view of God, while Christian connects the trends to the loss of a biblical worldview and the rise of subjective truth. Together, they discuss how theology has shifted from reverence to relativism—and what it means for the future of faith. ______________________ State of Theology: https://thestateoftheology.com  00:00 Introduction 00:31 The 2025 State of Theology survey 02:27 How Christianity changed in the last decade 03:31 God’s nature and the problem of bad theology 04:45 How loaded language shapes belief 06:05 “Is God in control?” – fear-based doctrines 07:04 Does God change? 08:13 Covenant misunderstandings and doctrinal confusion 10:22 Law, gospel, and the problem of religious performance 12:56 Why survey questions repeat with different wording 13:36 “Jesus was not God” – a growing split 15:06 The human-only Jesus doctrine in modern movements 17:06 Contradictions in beliefs about sin and innocence 18:08 God’s perfection vs. God changing 20:37 Identity, covenant, and fear-based religion 22:31 Humanity, morality, and sin nature misunderstandings 24:24 Religion vs. gospel and why the distinction matters 25:07 Bible accuracy vs. modern science 27:14 How people misunderstand what the Bible is 29:21 Fundamentalism and contradictions in belief 32:35 Tools for understanding scripture more responsibly 34:42 Undesigned coincidences and biblical reliability 36:24 Genre, witness testimony, and ancient perspective 37:24 Gender, culture, and worldview clashes 39:01 Is religious belief about objective truth? 40:03 If the Bible isn’t the highest authority, what is? 41:02 Hell, judgment, and why people don’t evangelize 42:23 Shame, politics, and distancing from Christianity 47:17 How to correct caricatures of Christians 48:01 “The Spirit told me to” – dangerous doctrines 49:22 Biblical worldview vs. cultural worldview 51:15 Why starting in Genesis shapes everything 51:56 Closing reflections and where Christianity is heading ______________________ Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR: Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962 Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K ______________________ – Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham – Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ – Visit the website: https://william-branham.org – Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg  – Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham – Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr – Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books

Transcript

00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.

00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research

00:41at william-branham.org, and with me I have my co-host and friend, Christian Thomason,

00:46the host of Sanctum Artifact.

00:49Christian, it's good to be back, and you have blown my mind.

00:53And I did not know that this website and these surveys existed, but you proposed the idea

01:00of talking about it on the podcast, and I have to say this may be one of the more interesting

01:04things that I've actually had on the podcast.

01:07There's a website.

01:08Anybody can go there.

01:09It's called thestateoftheology.com.

01:13And the—well, I'll just read what they advertise.

01:16They say, what do Americans in 2025 believe about God, the Bible, and salvation?

01:23And I can't pronounce this name.

01:26Ligonier Ministries, I guess, and Lifeway Research have partnered to find out.

01:31So when I saw this, I thought, I don't know if I'm interested in this or not.

01:35But when I started reading through the questions, it's a little bit unbelievable.

01:40I knew that Christianity had changed, even significantly in the last five or ten years,

01:46but I had no idea to the extent of how much it had changed.

01:50Things that—you know, I do not consider some of the doctrines that the charismatic movement

01:57have pushed as vital to Christianity, and some of which are even questionable.

02:01They—I don't consider those as valid questions for worldview.

02:06I just go back to the basics.

02:08And what I'm finding out by looking through these answers, even just the basics of what

02:12is a Christian worldview, there is a strong division between people who, on one hand,

02:19they believe it, and on the other hand, they disagree.

02:22They strongly—some of them strongly disagree.

02:25And this is—again, this is a survey to actual people who believe that they are Christians.

02:30So, it's a good thing that—good thing to go through and a good thing to understand

02:35that Christianity today is just not what it seems.

02:39So, thank you so much for sharing this with me, and I'm excited to get into it.

02:44Yeah, it's a survey that is—they do it every year from Ligonier.

02:52That's the ministry that R.C. Sproul founded.

02:55And they do it every year, and I like to look at those surveys, other ones too, because,

03:03yeah, they give us a bigger picture of what the state of Christianity is as a whole, especially

03:11for people that are not able to dig as deep as we do into the weeds, right?

03:17And for our purpose, it's very interesting that we see the same issues that we usually connect

03:28to Charismania within a broader sense of Christianity.

03:36The basic questions are the same.

03:38The sentiments are the same.

03:41The superficial views of God are the same, and that's the angle point.

03:47That's the main point, I think.

03:49People have basically the wrong view of God, and from there on, they develop their own theology.

03:59R.C. Sproul always said, everyone is a theologian, but there are bad ones.

04:03So, sometimes, your view of God is a matter of education and maturity.

04:13I say this a lot, but it's true, and I think we will see that throughout the survey.

04:19And one thing I'll add to that is, your view of God is often your parents' view of God.

04:24There are many people who are Christian only because their parents are Christian and have

04:28never actually looked to see what it is they believe and why.

04:31But, yeah, this survey that you've sent, it's quite a read when you read through the sentences

04:39and look to the answers.

04:40One of the biggest ones that I am just puzzled by, I guess it's even the first question on

04:49mine, I don't know how it is for you, but God is a perfect being and cannot make a mistake.

04:53Yeah, more interestingly, I think it is that many people in the survey said, I have it right

05:00in front of me.

05:02Yes, God is perfect.

05:03It's about like 53% said, yeah, I strongly agree.

05:08If we take the somewhat agree into account as well, we are at nearly 70% of all participants

05:17would say, yes, God is a perfect being, cannot make mistakes, but if they were asked about,

05:23is the Bible true and without error, the majority would say yes.

05:30So, hmm, very interesting there.

05:34It is, yeah.

05:35And, you know, going through this, so one of the things that I've come to realize by studying

05:40all of this history is that whenever you had Christian fundamentalism mixed in with Pentecostalism

05:47and formed various different varieties of views on Christianity, God, the Bible, one of the

05:55things that it did was it changed the nature of God to one that the people feared and one

06:04that the people began to understand was not in control.

06:08In other words, if I can make a mistake that is something that God cannot control and help

06:16me through, I'm in danger of losing my eternal salvation.

06:21That's largely how, when I grew up, that's largely the theology that was presented.

06:26And then whenever I left the Branham religion and started trying out different churches, it

06:32was odd to me to find after studying the Bible that there are churches outside of these cults

06:37that also believe that God is just simply not in control.

06:41And, you know, you take a step back and you look at it and wonder, well, if you don't believe

06:46God is in control and you have this weak God, why are you in church in the first place?

06:52Yeah, yeah.

06:53And that would be quite scary as well.

06:55Well, if you think that through to the end, if God wasn't perfect or wasn't, that's one

07:03of the questions, do you think God can change?

07:07If God could change, he would be a tyrant.

07:12He would be a tyrant because he would change his opinions.

07:16He would change his morals.

07:18He would change his attributes just like we do.

07:21And therefore, he is not perfect.

07:24And yeah, that would be very scary.

07:28Then he would not be a holy God, but a tyrant with more power than we have.

07:35Therefore, we are slaves.

07:36And the other thing that I'm noticing from this, in fact, the one that you just mentioned,

07:42does God change, there are large numbers of people who have been manipulated to understand

07:50God differently based off of the loaded language of the sect and the misuse of passages of scripture

07:56in whatever sect it is.

07:59One of the phrases that we heard over and over and over again is that Jesus Christ, the

08:04same yesterday, today, and forever, a large number of people don't understand the covenants.

08:09And so when they hear the phrase, Jesus Christ, the same yesterday and forever, they're thinking

08:15that it's the same matter of salvation.

08:18It's the same plan of salvation.

08:21And in fact, I was reading an article just last night.

08:24They were talking about how the salvation for the Jews was much the same as the salvation

08:29for the early Christians because Jesus's nature could never change.

08:34Otherwise, he's violating that passage.

08:36And they're not understanding the concept of how there was an old covenant and there was

08:41a reason for the law.

08:43And then Jesus came to save the people who had fallen under the sin, the curse of sin

08:49that was under that law.

08:50And so by overloading these passages, what happens is people will answer these questions

08:56based off of their confusion.

08:58And that's what I'm seeing in a large number of these questions is just simply confusion.

09:02If you look at the Israelites before Canaan, before Joshua took them through the promised

09:13land, it's as if the relationship between God and the Israelites is like God does something

09:23good for them and they start to make demands.

09:27They start to think they are entitled to a certain treatment.

09:34Why is he not giving us?

09:36Why is he not freeing us from?

09:38Et cetera, et cetera.

09:40And they, yeah, basically have a totally wrong view of him.

09:46And in that regard, the law works as a mirror for us.

09:55Time and time again, you are overstepping or you are sinning to use a simpler term.

10:02And then that moment you should recognize, okay, it's not that easy.

10:08Maybe I shouldn't make demands.

10:10Maybe I'm not as entitled to a better treatment, a special treatment by God as I think I deserve.

10:20Right?

10:21And so in that regard, the law works as a mirror.

10:25But if you view the law as a means of, as a tool of salvation, like solving a puzzle,

10:35doing the right steps, one, two, three, four, five, then it's not about faith anymore or trust as a better word, a more modern word.

10:45Then it's about you, your works, and then it's about religion.

10:51Theology puts God in the center of our thinking, of our worldview, and of our way we interact with our environment and with God himself.

11:05Religion puts man in the center of his deeds, his works, and he works his salvation out.

11:15And the tools of his salvation become interchangeable.

11:21Sometimes it's the food you're allowed to eat or you eat, the clothes you wear, the things you say, the things you think, the prayers you prayed.

11:31I think you get the point.

11:33And this confusion is all over the place.

11:37And the survey we have before us is just a perfect example for that because it's an expression of how people don't understand who God is,

11:51how people don't understand what the gospel is.

11:54And these two things are the most basic, yeah, most basic, I like the terms to describe it better,

12:03but they're the most basic things to understand in your walk with God, who God is and why we need the gospel.

12:10And we need the gospel because of the difference between us and God.

12:14God is holy, we are not.

12:16How can a holy, righteous God have a relationship with an unperfect, sinful being?

12:24That's the question.

12:25And the bridge between that, this tension, these things that are not able to come together is the gospel.

12:35Someone else, an external force had to make us righteous in the eyes of God, before God,

12:41so that we are able, or I would put it this way, that he is able to have a relationship with us without sinning,

12:51without losing his holiness, his holy nature.

12:55You know, like I said earlier, there are many questions in here that are asked many different ways,

13:00but it's the same question.

13:01I have studied psychology quite a bit, and I've taken several of these personality tests,

13:08and I've even been required to by some of my clients, and the personality tests are much the same.

13:14They will ask you the same exact thing 10 or 15 different ways because the person answering may be biased

13:21by the wording of the question itself, and you get a better view into what they believe and how they feel

13:27and their personality.

13:28Well, this test is doing the same thing, and one of the things that I noticed,

13:33which relates to what we just talked about a bit, and again, this is a survey given to Christian people,

13:41and I was just blown away whenever I saw the question,

13:46Jesus was a great teacher, but he was not God.

13:51When you look at this, so this is Christianity.

13:54This is the Christian religion.

13:55This is Jesus is supposed to be God in the Christian religion.

13:59Otherwise, you know, it's not the same religion at all.

14:03But when you look at the answers, it's almost, you know, not quite, but very close to 50% on either side of that question.

14:11And it all goes back to exactly what I said before.

14:16The ways that these movements have swayed the views of God has changed the DNA of Christianity,

14:23so much so that Jesus is not God.

14:27And I, in fact, I had this conversation.

14:30It's a little bit ironic that that question is here.

14:32I've had this conversation with three different podcast guests,

14:36and there are many scenarios in which the Lateran movement, the Pentecostal movement, Charismatic,

14:45and now the New Apostolic Reformation,

14:48they have this doctrine that seemed to stick, that Jesus was just human flesh.

14:53Of course, it changes the entire premise.

14:56If the premise is, Jesus was only a teacher who showed us the way, let's say it like this, yeah?

15:03Then you, of course, need more than Jesus, right?

15:07We need Jesus plus.

15:09So, righteous works, the right religion, the right clove, etc., etc.

15:14And that's where all the cults receive their energy from in some kind of way.

15:21Right, exactly.

15:23The idea is that within these movements, and especially the manifested sons of God,

15:28Jesus was not God.

15:30He was a human, but he was the manifestation of God.

15:34Whenever God thought, and a thought became spoken, and the spoken was the Word.

15:40In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, the Word was God.

15:43They try to say that that phrase was God thinking and speaking aloud,

15:47and the Spirit going down and turning Jesus, a human, into a superhuman.

15:52And so, one of the doctrines that I grew up with was that Jesus was just human flesh.

15:57He was fully human when he died on the cross.

16:00And if you really stop and think about that, what if I die on the cross?

16:04Can I save the world?

16:05I'm just a human.

16:07It doesn't make sense.

16:08It changes the DNA of the Christian religion.

16:09But the point I'm trying to make of this is, the same questions are being asked in different ways.

16:15Is God unchanging?

16:17Well, you see a much different set of answers.

16:20People would agree that God is unchanging, but is Jesus God?

16:24There is a very strong division, and it all comes back down to the changing of the nature of Christ by these movements.

16:32Yeah, maybe it's interesting if we look.

16:35What I did when I read the survey or when I worked through the survey was I ascribed topics to certain questions and came up with, like, three main topics.

16:47The first one was questions about God's character and His holiness.

16:53The second one was what I called the gospel issue, when the question was related to the gospel, the nature of Christ, or what He did for us.

17:03And the third topic I came up with was an issue of worldview.

17:10And from there, I tried to look for contradictions between the answers, because it is exactly as you said.

17:20It's often the same question, just with a little bit of different language.

17:29So it's very interesting that people then start to answer in a different way, or less bold, I would say.

17:37And from there on, you start to see or realize discrepancies in the share, excuse my bad English, in the share of participants in relation to the answers.

17:55Should we look, maybe that's interesting, if we just look up the contradictions that I have found.

18:03So, for example, the first contradiction that I have found was between question one and question four.

18:12So, question one is, God is a perfect being, cannot make a mistake.

18:17Question four is, God is unchanging.

18:22Very interesting, God is a perfect being.

18:24If we said it before, if we take the agreeing participants, we come to almost 70% would say, yes, God is a perfect being.

18:36But if we come to God is unchanging, it suddenly changes.

18:43God is a perfect being.

18:45There's a bigger group that would disagree.

18:49They would say, no, God is not perfect.

18:54But a bigger part of that participants would say, he is unchanging.

19:01So there's a first contradiction.

19:03If God is perfect, of course, he wouldn't change.

19:07Because right from the beginning, he is always the same.

19:11He is infinite, almighty, unchanging, always righteous, always loving, etc., etc.

19:17But if he isn't perfect, of course, he would change.

19:25It's only a small part of the participants changing their opinion.

19:30But if their premise would be, God is perfect, in a true sense, they couldn't say, he is changing.

19:40Right?

19:40Well, where that gets interesting, if you're in one of these movements and you're hearing the parts of the doctrine that are to excite you and make you want to join,

19:53especially the love-bombing techniques whenever they're appealing to new potential converts,

20:01the Jesus that they give you is a Jesus that's loving, welcoming, going to make you happy.

20:06It's a very happy, warm feeling that you get.

20:09Once you get sucked in, in the more destructive versions of it, the Jesus becomes an angry God of wrath.

20:16And so what people are taught to believe in some of these movements is that Jesus does change.

20:23He changes based on whether you're a member or not.

20:26If you're not a member, it's a loving God.

20:28Yes, you want – why would I not want this Jesus?

20:30But then once you get in there, it's not the same Jesus that they advertised.

20:36Yeah, they change the playbook, right, to lure you in, to bind you.

20:44Another interesting contradiction that I found is between 12, 14, and 15.

20:51Maybe start – I start by reading 15.

20:54The question was, everyone is born innocent in the eyes of God.

21:00And most of the participants, seriously, like 20, almost 80% would say, yes, I agree.

21:13Everyone is born innocent in the eyes of God.

21:15So, I then go over to 14, which says, God counts a person as righteous, not because of one's works, but only because of one's faith in Jesus Christ.

21:29Uh-huh.

21:29Born innocent, but we still need a Savior.

21:33Uh-huh.

21:34Which we have to put our faith into.

21:36And then there's 12.

21:38Everyone sins a little, but most people are good by nature.

21:43And that's the crux, I would say in German, because for them, sin is not a matter of nature, but a matter of deeds.

21:5615, and there's a discrepancy, says everyone is born innocent.

22:04So, we have an innocent nature, which becomes dirty, like muddy water over time.

22:13So, some people need more Jesus, other people need less Jesus.

22:20Some people need lots of Holy Ghost, other people need less Holy Ghost.

22:26It is interesting.

22:28And like I said, after I left the Branham religion, I started trying out different mainstream churches.

22:35And what was interesting is you see that wide variety among, even locally, even among the churches that I've attended here.

22:42I went to one that was very Calvinist, and this church would say things like, even the minister would point to his children, his own children, who were not even yet five years old, and say,

22:56These are the worst, lowliest sinners.

22:58They were born to sin.

22:59They're born evil.

22:59And, you know, he's condemning his own children from behind the pulpit.

23:04And it just didn't feel right to me, but I was learning at that time.

23:08Now I look back on this, and it's not even the way that you treat a dog.

23:13If you want a dog to do better, you don't continually say, This is a bad dog.

23:17You say, Good dog.

23:18And you reward the good, not focus on the bad, right?

23:22And there are so many different people who are in Christianity who are trained to believe that you focus on the negative and that the nature of sin is embedded such that every person wants to be the worst sinner ever.

23:42And that's just not quite true.

23:44If you get to know people, even people who aren't Christian, there is a morality that happens among humans, humanity, that however you present it to the people, you can't say that this person who's never even heard the name Jesus Christ are doing all of these good deeds.

23:59But you have to separate the good deeds from what is Christianity.

24:05And I think that's where it gets a little bit complicated, because some of the ministers are trying to merge the two.

24:11They're trying to say that the nature of sin is also the same nature as the humanity, and it's not quite the same.

24:19Yeah.

24:20And many people tend to think that the gospel is not exclusive, but it is.

24:33If religion was all about your works, then you don't need Christ, you don't need Christianity, or even more, Christianity is interchangeable.

24:48And we can talk later a bit more about it, because there's a question related to that.

24:54But I have a discrepancy that is even more blatant than the other ones.

25:01The other ones were somewhat nuanced, and you have to have a healthy theology already to make very certain distinctions there.

25:14But let's take a very blatant one.

25:17Statement 17 is,

25:18The Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

25:24Interestingly, 49% of the participants would say,

25:33I agree.

25:3449.

25:35The next question is,

25:38Modern science disproves the Bible.

25:41And all of a sudden,

25:43We only have 36% of the participants agreeing on that statement.

25:51That's a direct contradiction.

25:55Almost 50% of the participants would say,

25:59The Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches.

26:02And just one question later,

26:05From that nearly 50%,

26:07Only 36% are left.

26:12So, the Bible is 100% accurate,

26:14But modern science disproves the Bible.

26:16Aha, okay.

26:18So, this question about the accuracy of the Bible,

26:22It's the one that interests me the most.

26:24And I was actually saving it for the climax,

26:26Because it is one of the things that I have studied to no end.

26:31Whenever I first left the cults,

26:33I started doing apologetics for a long period of time.

26:36And probably, I think, two years even.

26:40And I was working with other people.

26:41You put the Bible to the test.

26:42Well, no.

26:43I was actually helping people who were putting the Bible to the test.

26:47Ah, okay.

26:47There were people who just had real questions.

26:51And I thought the best way for me to understand what the questions are,

26:56Was to work with the people who are trying to answer the questions

27:00For people that have them.

27:01And that way, I would,

27:02It was like a crash course in learning the Bible.

27:05Because if you do this, you're forced to try to learn,

27:08Well, what is the answer to this?

27:09And you try to give an honest answer.

27:11What's interesting is,

27:13Among the people that I was working with in this forum,

27:16You could clearly tell some of them were just pig-headed.

27:19If they didn't know an answer,

27:21They would condemn the person asking.

27:22And that didn't sit right with me.

27:25I don't,

27:26I'm not that way.

27:27I want to learn what is the truth.

27:28Not,

27:29I don't want to be bullied into the truth.

27:31But there were other people who were very sincere.

27:34They would,

27:35If they knew the answer,

27:36They would tell you,

27:37Or look it up and find it.

27:39And if there just simply wasn't a good answer,

27:41They would say,

27:42Well,

27:42I just don't know.

27:43There's not a real good answer to this question.

27:45Yeah.

27:46But what I came to understand through doing this exercise is,

27:51Number one,

27:52This is something that every Christian should do.

27:54If you believe the Bible,

27:55And you believe that everybody should be Christian,

27:58And there's a large number of people who are questioning your faith,

28:02You need to be able to answer these questions.

28:05And more to the point,

28:06If they are going to be eternally lost by your own belief set,

28:12Why would you not try to go help them?

28:14So I'm shocked that every minister in the nation doesn't do this.

28:19But that's another thought for another day.

28:22But what I learned was,

28:25And this is based on many of the questions and watching many of the answers.

28:29Many people are falsely taught what the Bible is.

28:34And part of the reason why I found this so interesting,

28:39Modern science disproves the Bible, for instance.

28:42That is the equivalent of saying,

28:45Modern science disproves the library.

28:48Well, which book in the library does it disprove?

28:51The Bible is not just one book.

28:53The Bible is a canon of books.

28:55It is different books,

28:56And there's different genres of books.

28:58Some of those genres include people who are saying,

29:02To the best of their witness testimony,

29:04What they saw.

29:04And they're saying it in a culture that is,

29:10Compared to ours,

29:11Somewhat primitive.

29:12So their answers are going to be somewhat different than we would even understand.

29:16Their level of understanding isn't even to the same level as us.

29:20So asking the question itself is a little bit invalid,

29:24Which is kind of funny,

29:25When you consider that this test is intended to understand Christianity better.

29:32But I get where it is heading.

29:34It's trying to see how many people believe that the Bible is the ultimate accurate word of truth,

29:41In such a way that they are fundamentalist.

29:44That's really,

29:45When you get behind it,

29:46That's what this question is asking.

29:48Are you a fundamentalist or are you not?

29:50And I,

29:52As I'm studying through

29:54Some of the ways in which people have been falsely taught the Bible,

29:59They're falsely taught in such a way that

30:02If modern science is to disagree with the person who's writing at the,

30:08During the century in which they're writing it,

30:12Then people are going to say,

30:14Well,

30:14Modern science is flawed.

30:16Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started?

30:20Or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,

30:25Charismatic, and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?

30:30You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,

30:35William-Branham.org.

30:37On the books page of the website,

30:39You can find the compiled research of John Collins,

30:42Charles Paisley,

30:43Stephen Montgomery,

30:45John McKinnon,

30:46And others,

30:47With links to the paper,

30:48Audio,

30:49And digital versions of each book.

30:51You can also find resources and documentation

30:54On various people and topics related to those movements.

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31:11On behalf of William Branham Historical Research,

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31:16There's definitely a bigger picture to it.

31:19As you said,

31:19Maybe that's even worthy of another podcast.

31:25But let me say this.

31:27First,

31:28I think it's a systemic problem,

31:30A cultural problem.

31:31Because if there is a question I can't answer,

31:36That's not an ad hominem.

31:37That's not a personal thing for me.

31:41The better mindset is to take it as a challenge for you to learn and to grow.

31:48That's the habitus of a learner,

31:50Lifelong learner,

31:51I would take that.

31:52And on the other side,

31:53You said maybe the language of that time was the way it is,

32:01Because the people were maybe somewhat more primitive than we are.

32:07And I would say,

32:08Yeah,

32:08To a certain degree,

32:10That's true.

32:10Because nowadays,

32:13In German,

32:14I really don't have the language for it.

32:17But in Germany,

32:18The German translation would call it,

32:23Fortschreitende Offenbarung.

32:26Like,

32:28You,

32:29Every day you learn more and more about the gospel,

32:32The Bible,

32:33The history,

32:34The character of God,

32:35And so on and so on.

32:36And on top of that,

32:42So there's your interaction with God,

32:44You are reading the Bible,

32:46The Holy Ghost reveals something to you or calls you to God's word.

32:51But there are even tools and techniques that we have nowadays,

32:57Scientifical methods that we have nowadays to prove that the Bible text is right,

33:05That the historical account of the Bible is right,

33:09The historical account of the gospels are right.

33:12For example,

33:13We have detectives making a living out of using their methods of research,

33:25Crime research,

33:27To prove that the gospels are right.

33:29And one other good example that I want to hand over to your audience,

33:34Is a method called,

33:38Or a principle called,

33:39Undesigned coincidence.

33:41It was made known to a broader public by Lydia McGrew.

33:49It's a very,

33:50It's not an old principle,

33:54But she brought it to a modern audience.

33:58Undesigned coincidence.

33:59And she's a specialist for that.

34:02She has a very interesting podcast.

34:04Maybe you can connect.

34:06She has written several books about this,

34:08Undesigned coincidences.

34:10And,

34:11Yeah,

34:12Just proof that the gospels and the Bible as a whole,

34:17Yeah,

34:19Is 100% inerrant,

34:22Truthful,

34:24And historically correct.

34:26And for any who are unfamiliar with this,

34:28It's the idea that if you have a Bible canon,

34:32And you have different authors writing at different time periods,

34:35Who have no idea of each other,

34:37And especially have no idea what will be written in the future,

34:40It seems unlikely that they would create subtle hints of cross-references to the same ideas.

34:47And that's essentially what this means.

34:50And the Bible is proving itself by the links contained within it across time.

34:56It's a theory.

34:58I've came across that theory.

35:00I'm not certain that I agree to the full extent.

35:02But what I do agree on is that whenever you're trying to understand the Bible,

35:08And you're trying to understand it in the way that,

35:12Especially the Christian fundamentalism taught you,

35:16That it is literally breathed by God.

35:19Every word was penned by God.

35:24I don't know if you even have this weirdness in Germany.

35:27But it can't stand up to scrutiny when you do this.

35:30Because if I'm writing a book,

35:32Even if I'm under the inspiration of God,

35:35I'm writing from the perspective that I know,

35:38Even under the inspiration of God,

35:39And the mistakes that I make will make it into my writing.

35:44However,

35:45Whenever you compare some of the historical accounts,

35:49For example,

35:50There are instances,

35:52Even within the Bible text itself,

35:53Where the historical accounts are different based on the author,

35:57And to complicate it even more,

36:00Based on the history of the translation of the text.

36:03There's text variance, etc.

36:05Which is another,

36:06It's a big topic,

36:07Larger than this podcast.

36:08But when you try to understand all of that complexity,

36:11And fit it into a true or false,

36:14Black or white,

36:15On or off,

36:16It's a very cultish mindset.

36:19Things aren't as black or white as they try to make it out to be.

36:23Maybe we can jump to the next discrepancy that I found.

36:28People should be able to choose their gender,

36:31Regardless of their biological sex.

36:32Just one question later,

36:35The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today.

36:40So,

36:41If you're in the group of people,

36:44That just answered,

36:45Yes, I agree,

36:46The Bible is 100% accurate in all that it teaches,

36:49You shouldn't be in the group,

36:52The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior doesn't apply today.

36:55So,

36:56They have to ask,

36:58What is truth?

36:59Is there objective truth?

37:03Is God perfect?

37:05If you were in the group that said,

37:07Yes, God is perfect,

37:08How can his word not be perfect?

37:12There's a huge tension,

37:15A growing tension,

37:17Between your view of God,

37:19And the discrepancies that start to arise

37:23When your worldview

37:25And your social habitus

37:30Stands in tension or even contradiction to God's word.

37:35That's,

37:36Yeah,

37:37Your social habitus,

37:40Your worldview

37:40Will put your beliefs about God,

37:45About Jesus to the test

37:47When it comes.

37:49To these kind of questions.

37:51Then,

37:52Let's take

37:53Statement 30 into account as well.

37:56It says,

37:57The Bible has the authority

37:59To tell us

38:00What we must do.

38:02So,

38:03If you're in a group that says,

38:05People should be able to choose their gender,

38:07Or,

38:07The Bible's condemnation of homosexual behavior

38:09Doesn't apply today.

38:13But you're saying,

38:15The Bible has the authority

38:16To tell us what we must do.

38:18I hope you see the conclusion

38:19One of them that's really interesting to me,

38:22And it could probably be used

38:25To sum up all of this.

38:26There's a question,

38:28It says,

38:29Religious belief is not about objective truth.

38:32And when you look at the answers,

38:34It's kind of unbelievable,

38:36Because there is a good even split

38:38On each side of this.

38:40It really comes down to the fact that

38:45Whenever people are trained and manipulated

38:48Into a belief set that cannot be proven,

38:52And they're working with these men

38:55Who are claiming to be apostles,

38:56Who are making these boisterous claims

38:58That many times don't come true,

39:01It devalues truth.

39:03And so people aren't really concerned with truth

39:06As part of their worldview.

39:07And yet,

39:08At the same time,

39:10If you understand what the Bible is saying,

39:12That concept that

39:14We don't have to believe in truth,

39:16It's actually anti-Christian.

39:18Yeah,

39:19Absolutely.

39:20Because

39:20If you take the biblical account

39:23For what it is,

39:24Then love and truth

39:25Are the same.

39:28But if

39:28You think,

39:30If you then step outside of your door,

39:33Go into the world,

39:34And just suddenly think

39:35There is no objective truth.

39:37Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

39:40Every opinion,

39:42Every emotion

39:45Can be true.

39:47Then you are contradicting

39:49Your own faith,

39:52Your own view of God.

39:54Exactly.

39:55And followed right on the heels of that,

39:58The question,

39:58The Bible is the highest authority

40:00For what I believe.

40:01Now again,

40:02This is a test given to Christians.

40:04Yeah.

40:05And there is,

40:06It's not as even of a split,

40:08But there's almost an even split.

40:10So I have to ask,

40:11If you're a Christian

40:12And the Bible is not your highest authority,

40:14Well,

40:15What is your highest authority?

40:16I mean,

40:17Everything we think

40:19About God

40:20And about ourselves

40:21Is just the grounds

40:24Of our deeds

40:26Later on.

40:27Right?

40:28Our deeds are the expression

40:30Of what we think,

40:31About what we feel,

40:33Or about what we know

40:34About truth.

40:35So here's another

40:37Very,

40:37Very interesting

40:38And I think

40:39Very consequential

40:41Contradiction here.

40:45Statement 20,

40:46Hell is a real place

40:48Where certain people

40:49Will be punished forever.

40:51Interestingly,

40:5221,

40:5337,

40:54So we have

40:5548%

40:56Of the participants

40:58Agreed.

40:59Yes,

40:59Hell is real.

41:00People will be punished forever.

41:02Head over to 21,

41:03There will be a time

41:05When Jesus Christ

41:06Returns to judge

41:07All the people

41:07Who have lived

41:08Strongly,

41:11Nearly,

41:13Over 60%

41:14Of the people

41:15Would say,

41:15Yes,

41:16That's true,

41:16Jesus Christ

41:17Will return.

41:18And here's the kicker,

41:20We head over

41:21To 33,

41:23It's very important

41:24For me

41:25Personally

41:26To encourage

41:27Non-Christians

41:28To trust Jesus Christ

41:30As their Savior.

41:31And all of a sudden

41:32We drop

41:34From almost

41:3560%

41:37To 30%

41:39In the part

41:39Of strongly agree

41:40And only 23%

41:43To somewhat agree

41:44And that's interesting.

41:47The same people

41:47That said,

41:48Yes,

41:48Hell is real.

41:50Yes,

41:50You will be punished

41:51For your sin

41:51Are the same people

41:53Maybe

41:53That say,

41:55No,

41:56It's not that important

41:57For me

41:58To encourage

41:59Other people

42:00To trust in Christ.

42:02So,

42:03Are you not afraid

42:04For them

42:04Or their lives?

42:06How can you not?

42:07If you know

42:07That's a reality,

42:10How isn't that

42:11Your biggest motivation?

42:12When it's not love,

42:14If it's not hell,

42:17What else can be

42:18A motivation

42:18To share the gospel

42:20With other people?

42:21You know,

42:21Of all the questions

42:22That are here,

42:23This is the one

42:23That bothers me

42:24The most.

42:25Whenever you look

42:26At this,

42:26And like you say,

42:27It's unbelievable

42:29How many people

42:30In Christianity

42:31Disagree with this statement.

42:33Whenever I

42:34Came to understand

42:36That we were

42:37In a religion

42:37That was

42:39Offensive to other Christians,

42:41It bothered me

42:42Once I began

42:42To understand this.

42:44But worse,

42:45After I

42:46Started studying

42:47And examining

42:48The broader movement,

42:49I came to realize

42:50That there are

42:51Many people

42:52Within the Christian religion

42:54Who have actually

42:55Given Christianity

42:56A bad name

42:57And they have

42:58Become offensive

42:59To the wider community

43:01And what you get

43:02Within this

43:03Is now you have

43:04Members within

43:05This religion

43:06Who are actually

43:07Ashamed to tell

43:08Other people

43:09Or, you know,

43:10Try to invite them

43:11To come to church

43:12Or try to invite them

43:13To believe in Jesus

43:14Because they know

43:16How the outside

43:17Sees them

43:18So they won't

43:18Go outside.

43:20Then you have

43:21Within the

43:22More destructive groups

43:23You have people

43:24Who are actually

43:25Trained to believe

43:26That the outside world

43:27Is already condemned.

43:28You have no need

43:29To go and invite them

43:31To become Christian.

43:32Therefore, they're lost

43:33And we don't care

43:34That they're lost.

43:35And it's those

43:37Destructive ones

43:38That are actually

43:38Giving the broader

43:39Movement the bad name.

43:41To the extent

43:42I have had conversations

43:44With people who have

43:45Escaped the

43:46New Apostolic Reformation

43:48Or charismatic movement

43:49And they tell me,

43:50John, I actually

43:51Don't even tell people

43:53That I'm a Christian.

43:54I'm embarrassed to do it.

43:55Not that I'm not

43:56A Christian, but

43:57Because the other people

43:59Whenever they hear

44:00This word, they're

44:01Branding me immediately

44:03With flags of Trump

44:05Or different things

44:06That have nothing

44:07To do with Christianity.

44:08You know, they say

44:09I'm embarrassed to

44:10Say this.

44:11So one person told me

44:13I just tell them

44:14I'm a follower of Jesus.

44:15And that's good enough.

44:16They don't have to know

44:17That I'm a believer of this.

44:19But what it has done

44:21Is, again, it has

44:22Skewed the religion

44:23And its membership

44:25To be embarrassed

44:26Of what it is

44:27That they believe.

44:28And I don't think

44:29Many of the leaders

44:30Who are truly

44:31Trying to be

44:33Christian leaders

44:34Not talking about

44:36The scoundrels

44:36Who aren't Christian

44:37Who are just doing it

44:38For money.

44:39I think that they

44:40Don't realize

44:41How bad the doctrines

44:42Are that they're teaching.

44:43Yes, because

44:44That's the weight

44:46That they put

44:47On other people's souls

44:48Or consciousness, right?

44:51Maybe it's helpful

44:52To share a perspective here.

44:56A person

44:57That is

44:58In the first place

45:00Ashamed

45:01Or afraid

45:02To share the gospel

45:03Or to say

45:04I'm a Christian

45:05Is in a positive sense

45:07Aware

45:08That

45:09Other peoples

45:11Have caricatures

45:13Of what a Christian

45:15Is in their mind.

45:17So, the first step

45:19To overcome that

45:20Is to recognize

45:22I am not

45:24That caricature.

45:26Here in Germany

45:27Many people

45:29Think of Christians

45:31Like a wild mix

45:34Of Catholic

45:35Illuminati stuff

45:37And Dan Brown novels.

45:40Dan Brown

45:40Was the worst thing

45:42Ever happened

45:43To modern Christianity

45:44Because

45:45He is widely popular

45:48Maybe you know

45:50The Illuminati movies

45:51With

45:51Yeah

45:52So, that's the sentiment

45:55The picture

45:56The caricature

45:57That most people

45:58Outside of Christianity

45:59Have

46:00When they think

46:01About Christians

46:02Or they think

46:03About Jehovah's Witnesses

46:05Strange people

46:06At my door

46:06Yeah, when they think

46:08About Christians

46:09So, make yourself

46:11Be aware

46:13That you are not

46:16That caricature

46:17And you have

46:18An opportunity

46:19To overcome

46:20That caricature

46:21To tell this person

46:23What a true Christian

46:24Is, what Christianity

46:25Is really about

46:27That doesn't mean

46:28You have to

46:29Condemn

46:30Or start the conversations

46:32By

46:32I hate Catholics

46:34I am not

46:34A Jehovah's Witnesses

46:36Like starting

46:37From a negative

46:38Standpoint

46:39But you can say

46:41What's your view

46:42Of Christianity

46:44And then they will

46:45Start to share

46:46Their caricature

46:46Of Christianity

46:47Of course

46:48They don't know

46:49What a Christian is

46:50So it's always

46:50A caricature

46:51Or a distorted view

46:54Of what Christianity is

46:56And then you can start

46:57To pick

46:58That caricature

46:59Apart

47:00With love

47:01With truth

47:02And

47:03Very important

47:05For that

47:06Is

47:06Take your time

47:08Do it

47:10In a patient

47:10Loving way

47:12That's the most

47:13Important

47:13Thing about it

47:16Because

47:16First

47:17There needs

47:19To be

47:20A real

47:20Interest

47:21Into the

47:22Other people's

47:23Soul

47:24Their life

47:26Their

47:27Experiences

47:28Make it about them

47:29Not about you

47:30And then you can start

47:32To overcome

47:32Those caricatures

47:33Those distorted views

47:35Of Christianity

47:36In Germany

47:37It's

47:38Catholic

47:39Illuminati

47:41And Dan Brown

47:41And in

47:43America

47:44It might be

47:45Just

47:46The modern view

47:48Might be

47:48A Christian

47:49Is always a

47:50Trumper

47:51Pro-Trumper

47:52You know

47:52I mentioned earlier

47:53That

47:53It was

47:54A subset

47:55Of the group

47:55That gave

47:56The broader

47:57Christianity

47:57A bad name

47:58There's one

47:59Question

47:59Which is

48:00The last

48:01One that

48:01I'll go

48:01Into

48:01But

48:02One question

48:03That really

48:04Sums that

48:04Up

48:05Yeah

48:05The Holy

48:06Spirit

48:07Can tell me

48:07To do

48:07Something

48:08That is

48:08Forbidden

48:09In the

48:09Bible

48:09The fact

48:11That anybody

48:11Who is

48:12Christian

48:13Answered

48:13Yes

48:13To this

48:14It shows

48:15That there's

48:16Just something

48:17Wrong here

48:17There are

48:18Actually

48:18Christians

48:19Being trained

48:20To believe

48:20That God

48:21Can tell you

48:22To do

48:22Something

48:22That is forbidden

48:23In the Bible

48:24And look at

48:26What we have

48:26We have

48:27People who are

48:28Grave soaking

48:29Which is forbidden

48:30In the Bible

48:31Yeah

48:32When you've got

48:32These people

48:33Who are

48:33Learning that

48:35All of the

48:36Things that are

48:37Not just

48:38Trivial sins

48:40But egregious

48:41Sins

48:41Some of them

48:42Worth being

48:42Stoned

48:43In the Old

48:43Testament

48:44That ministers

48:46Are doing

48:46It now

48:47In the name

48:48Of Christianity

48:48It creates

48:50Such a confusion

48:50That people

48:51Will actually

48:52Believe that

48:52God will tell

48:53You something

48:54To do

48:54That is forbidden

48:56In the Bible

48:57But think of

48:58The dangers

48:59Of this

49:00Murder

49:01Is forbidden

49:01In the Bible

49:02Well what if

49:03What if the person

49:04Goes to that level

49:05And sadly

49:06I think that

49:07There may have

49:07Been some

49:08That have

49:08In the historic

49:09Past when you

49:10Look at

49:11What has

49:11Happened

49:12Within these

49:13Movements

49:13The fact that

49:14There's a single

49:15Christian that

49:16Answers yes

49:17To this

49:17Tells me that

49:18This is a

49:19Problem

49:20There are

49:21Things wrong

49:21Here

49:21Yes

49:22And the

49:23Problem

49:23I think

49:24That the

49:24Root of

49:25The problem

49:25Is the

49:26The clash

49:28Of the

49:29Worldly

49:31Worldview

49:32And the

49:33Biblical

49:34Worldview

49:34It basically

49:38Comes down

49:38To

49:39Is your

49:40Worldview

49:40Biblical

49:41True or

49:42Not

49:43Outside of

49:45That there

49:46Is no

49:46Objective

49:47Truth and

49:47It doesn't

49:48Matter if

49:48You're

49:48Left or

49:49Right if

49:50You're a

49:51Socialist or

49:52A capitalist

49:52Those are

49:55All minor

49:56Things forms

49:57Of organization

49:58Political

49:59Questions but

50:01These are not

50:02Questions of

50:03Truth not

50:04Truth claims

50:05So make

50:06Sure your

50:07Worldview is

50:07Based on

50:09What scripture

50:09Says what

50:11The world

50:12Is start

50:13In genesis

50:13Here's a

50:14Question about

50:15Marriage of

50:16Course do

50:17You think

50:17Marriage is

50:18Between a

50:20Man and

50:20Woman yes

50:21Or no

50:22If you

50:24Start to

50:25Expand

50:26The word

50:27Of language

50:28Open it

50:30Up to

50:30Let's say

50:31Gay marriages

50:32Or something

50:32Then the

50:33Word marriage

50:35Already can't

50:36Be applied

50:36They change

50:38The meaning

50:39Of a truly

50:40Christian word

50:41Marriage

50:42That's a

50:42Relationship

50:43Between a

50:43Man and

50:44A woman

50:44If two

50:45Men have

50:46A relationship

50:46That's not

50:47A marriage

50:48Anymore

50:48They can

50:49Claim that

50:50Word and

50:50Say it's

50:51A marriage

50:51But then

50:52They define

50:53The word

50:54In a way

50:54That's not

50:55Intended by

50:56The bible

50:56That's not

50:57Biblical

50:58So a

50:59Christian

50:59Doesn't have

51:00To be

51:00Left or

51:01Right

51:01Democrat

51:02Or

51:02Republican

51:03Socialist

51:04Or

51:05Capitalist

51:06That's

51:07Irrelevant

51:07A christian

51:08Has to

51:09Have a

51:09Biblical

51:10Worldview

51:11Start by

51:12That and

51:12From there

51:13That's the

51:14First premise

51:15You have

51:16To have

51:17That's the

51:17First question

51:18You have

51:19To have

51:19Really start

51:22In genesis

51:22Many

51:23Questions

51:24Many

51:26Discrepancies

51:27That i

51:28Saw in

51:29This

51:30Survey

51:30Are really

51:32Just the

51:33Outcome

51:34Of a

51:35Wrong view

51:36Of the

51:36Genesis

51:37Account

51:37What is

51:38Who is

51:40God

51:40What is

51:42The word

51:42What is

51:43Creation

51:44What is

51:45Man

51:45What is

51:46A man

51:46And a

51:47Woman

51:47What is

51:48Marriage

51:48Basic

51:49Questions

51:49That are

51:50All answered

51:51In the

51:51Genesis

51:52Account

51:52Already

51:53Well this

51:53Has been

51:54Crazy

51:54Interesting

51:55And fun

51:55If anybody

51:56Is interested

51:57You can

51:57Go to

51:58See this

51:59Survey

51:59For yourself

51:59At

52:00The

52:00State

52:01Of

52:01Theology

52:01Dot

52:01Com

52:02But

52:03It's

52:03Eye

52:03Opening

52:03To how

52:04Vastly

52:05Different

52:05Christianity

52:06Has

52:07Became

52:07I'm

52:08Looking

52:08At

52:08These

52:09Questions

52:09Thinking

52:09Just

52:10Not

52:11Even

52:11Fifteen

52:11Years

52:12Ago

52:12The

52:13Answers

52:13Would

52:14Not

52:14Be

52:14So

52:14Significantly

52:15Skewed

52:16In

52:16One

52:16Direction

52:16Or

52:16The

52:17Other

52:17Things

52:18Have

52:18Changed

52:19In

52:19Christianity

52:19And

52:20You

52:20Can

52:20Clearly

52:20Tell

52:20It

52:21So

52:21Thank

52:21You

52:22So

52:22Thank

52:23You

52:23To

52:23Well

52:24If

52:24You've

52:24Enjoyed

52:25Our

52:25Show

52:25And

52:25You

52:25Want

52:25More

52:25Information

52:26You

52:26Can

52:26Check

52:26Us

52:27Out

52:27On

52:27The

52:27Web

52:27You

52:28Can

52:28Find

52:28Us

52:28At

52:28William

52:29Dash

52:29Branham

52:29Dot

52:30Org

52:30And

52:30Sanctum

52:31Artifact

52:31For

52:32More

52:32About

52:32The

52:33Dark

52:33Side

52:33Of

52:33The

52:33New

52:33Apostolic

52:34Reformation

52:34You

52:35Can

52:35Read

52:35Weaponized

52:36Religion

52:36From

52:37Christian

52:37Identity

52:38To

52:38The

52:38NAR

52:38Available

52:39On

52:40Amazon

52:40Kindle

52:41And

52:41Audible

From Holiness to Confusion: The New Face of American Christianity | Christian Thomaßen 474

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