- 2 days ago
John Collins traces the disturbing historical and theological roots linking William Branham’s teachings to modern megachurch culture through Robert Morris and Gateway Church. Drawing from detailed research, he shows how Branham’s “spoken word” doctrine and authoritarian “Moses model” structure evolved into today’s New Apostolic Reformation, creating a cycle where abusive leaders are elevated again and again. John explores how figures like Roy E. Davis, Gordon Lindsay, and Jack Hayford bridged these movements—from early Christian Identity and Latter Rain to the prosperity gospel and NAR. This episode exposes how Branham’s anti-biblical view of Christ as a “spoken manifestation” echoes directly in Robert Morris’s sermons, proving that cultic theology can resurface even in the largest churches of modern evangelicalism.
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Chapter List
00:00 Introduction
01:06 Cult Frameworks and Control
04:25 Who Is Robert Morris?
06:39 The Moses Model and Apostolic Restoration
10:09 The Abuse Scandal and Its Cover-Up
14:33 Connecting Robert Morris to William Branham
18:17 Christian Identity and the Roots of the Serpent Seed
23:52 From Christian Identity to Manifest Sons of God
30:02 Roy E. Davis and Early Branham History
32:01 The Spoken Word: Branham’s Core Doctrine
37:06 How Branham’s Theology Reappears in Modern Churches
41:23 Robert Morris’s “Steward His Spoken Word” Sermon
43:48 Tracing Influence Through Jack Hayford and the Foursquare Church
50:09 From Branham to the NAR Network
54:13 Final Thoughts: Why These Doctrines Still Spread
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
⸻
Chapter List
00:00 Introduction
01:06 Cult Frameworks and Control
04:25 Who Is Robert Morris?
06:39 The Moses Model and Apostolic Restoration
10:09 The Abuse Scandal and Its Cover-Up
14:33 Connecting Robert Morris to William Branham
18:17 Christian Identity and the Roots of the Serpent Seed
23:52 From Christian Identity to Manifest Sons of God
30:02 Roy E. Davis and Early Branham History
32:01 The Spoken Word: Branham’s Core Doctrine
37:06 How Branham’s Theology Reappears in Modern Churches
41:23 Robert Morris’s “Steward His Spoken Word” Sermon
43:48 Tracing Influence Through Jack Hayford and the Foursquare Church
50:09 From Branham to the NAR Network
54:13 Final Thoughts: Why These Doctrines Still Spread
______________________
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
– Follow on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@william.m.branham
– Follow on Twitter: https://twitter.com/wmbhr
– Buy the books: https://william-branham.org/site/books
Category
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LearningTranscript
00:30Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:36I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:41at william-branham.org, where the history proves that truth, or at least their version
00:46of it, is truly stranger than fiction.
00:49And today I'm talking about Robert Morris.
00:52We've received, I don't know how many emails and a few phone calls.
00:57We've had comments in the feeds asking about what is the connection between William Branham
01:02and Robert Morris and Gateway Church.
01:06People who have studied Robert Morris, they, you know, looking at some of the things that
01:11he said, it's just really eerily similar to the things that many of the guests that we've
01:17had on the podcast talk about in their churches.
01:19And, you know, the framework is very similar whenever you really dive in deep and you start
01:26to understand what it is they're saying, but more than that, why they're saying it.
01:31And, you know, it isn't really, from what I can understand, it isn't really a direct lineage
01:37of theology, but it is a direct framework of theology.
01:40And I guess you could say that many of these cults that we've examined, they share the
01:46same framework.
01:47I've said it before, but it's like somebody took a cookie cutter stamp of this is how you
01:52make a cult, and they just started stamping cults.
01:55And they would sprinkle a few doctrines, you know, so that whenever two people examine the
02:01different differences in the cults, they say, well, the doctrines are different.
02:04They must not be the same.
02:06But when you really start to peel the covers open and understand that, yeah, the doctrines
02:11may be different, but they're functioning and they're acting very much alike, and it
02:15becomes similar.
02:17And, you know, quite frankly, I get questions from all kinds of cults because they hear people
02:23out of the Branamite sect, and they hear the things that they say, and well, that's just
02:26like our cult.
02:27That's exactly how they look and act, and, you know, different things.
02:32There's different ways that you can tell a cult.
02:34I always recommend people go to read, you can go to freedomofmind.org, or you can get
02:40Dr. Stephen Hassan's book, Combating Cult Mind Control, and you can read the criteria
02:46that is used to discover, is this a destructive cult, or is it just a cult following that's
02:53somewhat benign and harmless?
02:54And many of the people who've been on the podcast, they look at the different criteria
03:00of a destructive cult, and they say, well, that's exactly what we had.
03:03It's just, you know, it's a different name, different cult, different group, but it is
03:08definitely a cult.
03:10So we've had the questions about Gateway Church, and I, like I say, I don't believe that there's
03:17a, you'll find a direct trail of lineage, but there are some interesting things that you
03:22can, you can examine.
03:24And you can see similarities between Gateway Church and Robert Morris, and all the way back
03:30to William Branham and the Message, and even before William Branham.
03:34One of the other things that's in common with a lot of these cults is the fact that there
03:39are leaders who are given unquestioned control, and some of them turn out to be very destructive,
03:47and many of, many of them turn into ways of governing people that is not really healthy,
03:54but some of them go a step further, and they become predators.
03:58And that's, that's really, honestly, if you look back through the history, and you understand
04:03how all of this started, it's a little bit scary, because there were quite a few predators
04:08that were in the mix, and then this framework was created that enabled more predators.
04:14So the deeper that you go with this, the deeper, the deeper this mess gets really, really dirty
04:20really quickly.
04:22But anyway, so Robert Morris, for those who are unfamiliar with who he is, he was the pastor,
04:30I guess maybe still is the pastor, of Gateway Church in Texas, and he resigned after, I think
04:37it was in 2024 he resigned, after it was known that he had sexually abused a minor, and that
04:42news became public.
04:45And so it exploded into this lengthy scandal that rocked the church, and eventually, whenever
04:51Morris was sentenced, which was recently, he was sentenced to, I think, 10 years for the
04:57crimes that he had committed.
04:58And if I understand correctly, he's maybe only spending about six months of that in jail.
05:04But regardless, Gateway Church is a large, non-denominational, evangelical, Christian, multi-site megachurch
05:15in South Lake, Texas, which is near Fort Worth, which, as I'll get into later, it's a little
05:21bit of interest.
05:22Gateway Church was ranked, I think, ninth largest in the United States in the year 2023, and there
05:30were approximately 25,000 or more people that were in attendance at that church.
05:36So Robert Morris had led this church to one of the largest in the nation, and he became
05:42a leading figure in the New Apostolic Reformation, or NAR, N-A-R.
05:46Morris was a spiritual advisor to President Donald Trump, and like many churches in the New Apostolic
05:53Reformation, he was very active in politics.
05:58And in the last episode that I did solo, I was talking about the subject of holiness and
06:04how in the New Apostolic Reformation, its version of holiness, it's quite different from
06:10that of the Bibles, and there are, you know, when you compare the two, they're not even
06:16similar.
06:16When you look at the biblical model, it is a model of holiness that purifies the group
06:23as they continue.
06:24In other words, things progress in a good way, but when you look and you examine any of these
06:30leaders in the New Apostolic Reformation, the way that they progress is not a good way.
06:35They progress more towards destruction, and once they get to the place where, like Robert
06:41Morris, where the leader falls and it's exposed that something really, really bad has happened,
06:48well, what happens is the apostolic framework of this cult, this New Apostolic Reformation
06:55cult empire, I should say, they just pick the leader back up and put them back into their
07:00position of authority where they can repeat the same thing, and Morris is a good example
07:07of what I was trying to say in the last podcast because he's quite literally the epitome of
07:14what I was describing with the Moses model where the leaders are untouchable.
07:19The leader gets to be appointed in these positions of apostolic authority where their members cannot
07:25question them, and that was, growing up, that's the way that we were with William Branham, even
07:32though that he was dead, but even in some of the more destructive churches in the Branham
07:38sects, the ministers were untouchable, and especially those who had been in contact with William
07:46Branham, they were, at least, maybe not all, but many of them were excessively destructive,
07:51and they were untouchable, you couldn't question them, some of them had done some horrific
07:56things, but Robert Morris is one of the people who, he, I think it was back in the 1980s that
08:04all of this began, and he came under the scrutiny of different leadership because they had evidently
08:12found out that he had done some things that were not good.
08:17I'll keep it clean for the YouTube version so that when this goes out to YouTube, I don't
08:22get dinged for talking about what he actually did, but let's just say it was not good, but
08:29he gets, according to the way this new apostolic framework works, this apostolic authority,
08:37he goes to another apostle and they basically let him repent, and he rises back up into his
08:46authoritarian model as though nothing ever happened, and this happens time and time again,
08:51which I'll get into some of that in the history, but as a central figure, they become an authoritarian
08:58leader who cannot be touched, and the very scary thing about the new apostolic reformation
09:06is that it is not just one central figure, not just one cult group.
09:10You have multiple, multiple of these authoritarian figures in a network so that when one falls,
09:19one cult leader can say, help me other cult leaders, and the other cult leaders will come
09:24to their rescue because if one of them falls, all of the doctrines that they have shared through
09:30this network became, you know, they become in question.
09:34And quite honestly, I think the bigger underlying reason is some of the cash flow suddenly stops
09:42when one of the people fall.
09:43So there's a reason why there's a motivation behind lifting these people up.
09:47And if it was just one cult that we're talking about, you know, the cult leader falls, it disintegrates,
09:55and eventually it becomes no more.
09:58But in the New Apostolic Reformation structure, when one, especially one as large as Gateway
10:04Church, if it were to fold, it has an impact because there's a blast radius that is much,
10:10much bigger.
10:11But Morris had apparently abused, it was a, I think she was 12 years old, a 12-year-old young
10:19lady in the 1980s, and you can go to the Roy's report and you can read more about this on
10:24julieroys.com.
10:26But apparently after that abuse happened and he tried to silence her, he went through this
10:32common process of restoration and he was resumed back into his ministry as though nothing ever
10:39happened without any of the crimes having been reported to the police.
10:44And again, if you go back to that podcast that I did on the holiness, the one previous
10:49to this that I did by myself, this Moses model was established for this very purpose, so that
10:55the leadership cannot be questioned by the people and they imply that it is only by God
11:03that they're being judged.
11:04However, that's really not the case.
11:06It is only by the other apostles and likely by the apostles' cash flow.
11:13If one person were to be insignificant in the cash flow, then let him go.
11:19He's caused his own destruction, but if he's going to hurt my wallet, I'm going to immediately
11:24lift this guy back up.
11:26And we see this happening time and time and time again.
11:29Like I said, if you want to learn more, you can go to julieroysreport.com or honestly, you
11:34can go to Google and just search for New Apostolic Reformation and type in any array of things
11:42that you might consider to be a predator and his or her prey.
11:46You'll find many, many examples of this.
11:49So all of this happened in the 1980s, apparently, and then came to a head in 2024.
11:55When all was said and done, he eventually pled guilty because he wanted to accept responsibility
12:02for his conduct, which, you know, in most cases, that's a good thing.
12:06Maybe that maybe it came from the heart.
12:09And, you know, who knows?
12:10I'm not going to say that that's not in his heart.
12:12I can't tell what is in his heart.
12:14But for an average person, that's a good thing.
12:18When you're talking about one of these apostles in the New Apostolic Reformation, it gets a
12:24little bit more sketchy because there are multiple cards, multiple hands being played.
12:31And the one card that is thrown out is obviously the appeal to God.
12:35I've done a bad thing.
12:36I'm going to prison.
12:37Please forgive me.
12:38Hopefully he is forgiven.
12:40You know, I'm not going to say what's in his heart.
12:41Who knows what's in his heart?
12:43But by making that appeal to the I've used this term in the little comics that I used
12:50to make from time to time, and I'll probably still make some more the Apostolic Governance
12:54Committee, the New Apostolic Reformation apparently has this this committee of apostles that is
13:01far above and beyond the control and the guidance of normal, lowly people like you and I.
13:08And they can say, OK, well, this guy's a predator and he's making us a lot of money.
13:12So let's pick him back up.
13:14Well, this appeal to God, to this Apostolic Governance Committee, whoever it is that he's
13:21appealing to, the apostles in that network have the ability to pick them back up.
13:26And they have this code of honor that if they've done something wrong, they must publicly admit
13:31and confess to their sins.
13:32And by following that code of conduct, you have then opened the door to your apostolic
13:38restoration.
13:40So on the one hand, yes, he is making appeal to God.
13:43On the other hand, that confession opened the door so that he can be restored again, which
13:48in the case of a person who is a predator, there is no position.
13:53There is no church that should open their doors to him as a leader ever again.
13:58And that's my opinion.
14:00And I'm sticking to my opinion.
14:02That's just not the way life works, man.
14:04If you are a predator, you don't get to go back into a position where you where you have
14:10a problem that can impact others negatively.
14:13And in this case, very, very negatively.
14:16I just don't think that that's a good idea.
14:18But again, that's the way the structure of this new Apostolic Reformation cult has been
14:23created and established, and it seems to be going this way time and time and time again.
14:30So anyway, that's the background on Robert Morris for anybody who is unfamiliar.
14:38But after going through all of that statement and understanding who Robert Morris is, you're
14:45still left with the question, well, how does this tie back to Branham?
14:47And I know that's the question that many people have been asking me.
14:51So it's, uh, it's a bit complicated.
14:53It's not as simple of an answer as I think people would like for me to say.
14:58It's not a black or white trail of history.
15:01And if anybody who's listened to my podcast have listened enough to know the history and
15:08the intricate details, it's not even something that can be explained in one podcast.
15:13You have to really understand the history and honestly, there's very few people that are
15:19willing to take the time to go back and study and learn all of the history.
15:23So I'm going to do my best to try to sum it up in the part of one podcast and hopefully
15:30it will come out in a way that people can understand.
15:34But yes, there are some historical links to William Branham that are worth mentioning
15:39with Robert Morris and there are, there are some doctrines that Robert Morris was teaching
15:46that when I heard it, I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe in this day and age, we're
15:52hearing the same things that Branham was preaching in the forties, fifties, and sixties.
15:56And it's rebranded, repackaged in the Robert Morris fashion.
16:01But if you understand where it came from, how and why, and then understand also that the
16:09nature of his crimes also match the nature of many of the starting positions of, of many
16:16different trails of history, you begin to understand that something's just not quite
16:20right here.
16:21And you have to ask the question, was this really a move of God or was this something
16:26else?
16:27And I'm going to argue through the course of this podcast that definitely this was something
16:32else.
16:33And there's some history that I think a lot of people who have studied Robert Morris just
16:37really aren't that familiar with.
16:39If you go back through the history that Charles and I have compiled together in the revival history
16:44series of our podcast, people who've studied this realize and recognize that whenever you're
16:50hearing the trace elements of theology and history, that really weren't even similar to what we see
16:59today, but the roots were planted and they began to grow kind of like a snowball going down a hill.
17:05It's a very small snowball.
17:07You could take the snowball and you might hit somebody with it and they might be a little bit
17:11aggravated, but as it goes down the hill and gets larger and larger and larger, if the hill is big enough
17:17and there's enough snow, you can take out a small car with the snowball that went down the hill.
17:22Well, some of these theological trails are the same way.
17:26They started out somewhat benign.
17:28They were slightly off the mark.
17:30They weren't quite biblical.
17:32Some of them were anti-biblical.
17:34Some of them just extra biblical.
17:36But as through cross-pollination, as people brought their own ideas and especially when they started
17:43bringing politics into it, the doctrines began to grow and develop and turn into something that
17:49wasn't really Christian, but because they were being presented by Christian ministers, they were
17:55accepted widely by many people as Christian doctrine.
18:00And enough of them began to be introduced into the movement that the nature of Christianity and the
18:09nature of biblical history itself began to change right down to the original sin.
18:16If you study the, in the latest book that I've written from Christian identity to the NAR, I give a
18:23large swath of history where you can understand how this happened, but right down to the nature of the
18:30original sin, it was twisted by leaders of what was called Christian identity to believe that the nature of
18:38the sin was actually sex.
18:41And by changing it from simply in Genesis, it says that they disobeyed God.
18:46And that was, that was a horrific thing.
18:48They disobeyed God because they shifted it and changed it to sex.
18:53Well, now it shifted and changed the concept of salvation because the Christian identity doctrine
19:00taught that Eve mated with the serpent to produce a separate bloodline.
19:06So you had a bloodline that came from purely evil and you had a bloodline that came from
19:11and Adam's lineage.
19:14So literally two bloodlines, the good guys and the bad guys.
19:17And this was becoming quite popular in the United States, especially in the, uh, late twenties,
19:25early 1930s.
19:26And to the extent, uh, Ford, Henry Ford was publishing his Dearborn Independent with leaders
19:34who were pushing Christian identity doctrine and making Christian identity a popular thing.
19:40It developed into the race wars and race riots of the sixties because people started to say that,
19:47well, the, the bad bloodline, you can see it in today's humanity because we can see those who have
19:53white skin and those who have dark skin, and they started attacking the Jews and the blacks because
20:00of this doctrine, this two seed doctrine of Branham called it his serpent seed doctrine,
20:05but it was the two seed doctrine of Christian identity.
20:09And what I'm trying to make you understand with this is that when you take the nature of
20:18something that is spiritual and you try to humanize it.
20:21So they tried to humanize the fall and say that it was a, it was a bloodline.
20:26It was a sexual thing.
20:28Whenever they tried to humanize it, they took the meaning that was in scripture away and brought
20:34it into the human realm.
20:35So they humanized the concept.
20:38And when you continue down that path, it changes everything in the Bible, right down to,
20:45they eventually tried to humanize Jesus himself.
20:49And this movement was developing into a doctrine where the Christian identity leaders saw themselves
20:55as wanting to purge all of the evil from the United States, which literally meant the people
21:04who weren't white.
21:05And during this period of time, it'd be while mixing with the healing revival, it began to produce
21:13weird doctrines like the manifested sons of God doctrine.
21:17And this doctrine is the idea that God can manifest himself into a human and the human can become
21:24like a God.
21:26And according to this theology, the ultimate example of this manifestation was Jesus Christ.
21:33So much like they did in the garden of Eden, they humanized even Jesus, God sending his own son as
21:41Jesus Christ, to say that Jesus was just a human, merely a human, and that he was empowered by God.
21:48He was, God was manifesting himself in Jesus.
21:52And so basically he became a human, a superhuman.
21:55And when you understand that concept and then understand what they're trying to say in the new
22:00apostolic reformation, it's that you too can become superhuman.
22:04It would be like the, the, the boy at the newsstand who's selling the comic books of Superman saying,
22:11you too, my friend, you can read this comic book and you too can become just like Superman.
22:16That is literally what these guys are saying, but they're doing it from behind pulpits, which
22:20is absurd when you stop and think about it.
22:23But it started to take hold.
22:26And because of the popularity of the British Israel doctrine, the idea that we are the 10 lost tribes of Israel
22:36who are living in the United States and Canada and the British Isles, because we are of this royal seed,
22:45we are the ones who are in the time of separation in the end times, whenever the sheep are separated from
22:52the proverbial goats, we're the ones who are going to be doing the separating.
22:57That's essentially how this doctrine began to develop.
23:00And I'm saying we, not as we, like I believe this, but that's, that's what the doctrine is teaching.
23:06They literally want to be the enforcers.
23:09They want to be the ones who are wielding the weapons saying, no, this, this is the bad person.
23:13I'm going to purge him forever.
23:15And this is a person who, if you're in the worst of Christian identity, this is a person with white skin.
23:21And so they're a good guy.
23:23Really, that's how this played out.
23:25And to think that that has gone through all of those stages of race riots, race wars,
23:31but still remained in the church until it developed into the new apostolic reformation.
23:39It's really unbelievable.
23:41But that is, that is part of the history, which again, it's more than I can cover in this podcast.
23:47But whenever you try to understand how people like Robert Morris are doing what they're doing and why,
23:55there's some of this history that you have to understand.
23:58So let's get into a bit of that.
24:01The first name that we should begin with is Gordon Lindsay.
24:04And Lindsay, who was William Branham's campaign manager,
24:08who later became the head of Christ for the Nations Institute.
24:12He was in the Christian identity movement, apparently, because we find multiple times in history
24:21where he is the keynote speaker at Christian identity conferences.
24:26But before that, he was trained at Life Bible College,
24:30which was the institution that was established by Amy Semple McPherson of the Foursquare Gospel Church,
24:38which also will have a strange tie, which I'll get into later with Robert Morris.
24:45But Lindsay was a, I can't remember his exact title,
24:49but he was basically a field operator who was in the district that was adjacent to the Sharon Orphanage,
24:56North Battleford District, where the Latter Rain Revival would break out
25:01and William Branham would spearhead the movement and become the foremost leader of the revivals.
25:07Gordon Lindsay would become his campaign manager and together they would publish the Voice of Healing magazine
25:15and it would turn into the Voice of Healing movement.
25:18They would be Voice of Healing conventions,
25:20which would set up the framework for many of the, you know,
25:25the New Apostolic Reformation conventions that we have today.
25:28They're basically a remnant of that history that was laid down by William Branham and Gordon Lindsay.
25:36And again, Lindsay is attending, not only attending, but he's keynote speaker in these Christian identity conferences.
25:44And if you look at the timeline,
25:47one of the best timelines that I have seen established is in the book by Michael Barkun,
25:52Religion and the Racist Right,
25:54when you understand that the timeline in which Christian identity was turning racist,
26:00and then compare that to the timeline of Lindsay,
26:03you see that Lindsay is joining into it during that time,
26:06which raises all kinds of questions that cannot be answered because Lindsay is no longer alive.
26:13But we do know that he was in it at the time in which it was turning very racist.
26:20And he is mentoring and helping to organize the campaigns of William Branham,
26:26who was also mentored by a different Christian identity leader,
26:32the second in command of the 1915 Ku Klux Klan,
26:36a man by the name of Roy E. Davis.
26:39Davis has a very colorful history.
26:41I go through some of that in my book, Preacher Behind the White Hoods.
26:46This is literally what I found out whenever I suddenly realized that the cult that I grew up in,
26:52the William Branham message cult of personality,
26:55was not what it said to be.
26:57It was not what it claimed to be.
26:59There was large parts of its history that was covered up,
27:02and that history revolves around Davis.
27:05And the interesting tie back to Fort Worth, Texas,
27:07is that Roy Davis, whenever he wrote in to Gordon Lindsay,
27:12sent a letter talking about how he was William Branham's mentor in the Pentecostal faith.
27:18He said that he was a member of the Fort Worth, Texas Chamber of Commerce,
27:21and on the executive committee of the same.
27:25He was born and raised near Fort Worth, Texas,
27:28and he was ordained to preach the gospel in a Baptist church there.
27:32And it's a history that is much larger than this podcast can hold,
27:36so I won't go deep into it.
27:38But just to give you some highlights,
27:40when you look at Robert Morris and the accusations, his admission,
27:46the nature of the crime,
27:48when you study Roy Davis, the nature of the crime is very similar.
27:52Davis apparently had an affection for young women.
27:56And Davis, as an evangelist, back in the days before there were automobiles on the road,
28:02he's traveling by train,
28:04he suddenly came to the realization that if his wife and his children are in Texas,
28:10and he's traveling to Georgia,
28:13she's not going to know if he fools around in Georgia.
28:16And eventually fooling around turned into many other things,
28:20but the climax of that history is that he realized that he could get married in Georgia,
28:26while still married to her back in Texas,
28:28and nobody would know.
28:30Only he did get caught.
28:32So there's some weird, funny history there.
28:35But the long story short is,
28:38when he landed in Indiana and started to plant the church that became my grandfather's church,
28:45William Branham's Branham Tabernacle,
28:47he was running from the law because he had taken a young girl across state lines for the purposes of sex,
28:55which is a violation of the Mann Act.
28:58So he was being accused of the Mann Act,
29:01and it made big news.
29:05And much like the apostles today of the New Apostolic Reformation,
29:09he was above being accused by the church.
29:13The church just let him continue.
29:17And in fact, they threw this big revival on the grounds in Jeffersonville.
29:21It attracted William Branham.
29:23Branham came into the movement.
29:26And this is where Branham would first hear the serpent seed,
29:29the Christian identity doctrine.
29:31And so from the very beginning of his ministry,
29:34Branham has a different view of what the original sin was.
29:39And as you understand the Christian identity doctrine,
29:43you understand that each step along the way,
29:45he has a twisted view of what is salvation,
29:49what is the spiritual versus the human.
29:52All of these things,
29:54his perception is skewed by the Christian identity doctrine that is taught to him by Roy Davis.
30:00And many years later,
30:02you start to see these things start emerging in his sermons.
30:05So that's the background to the history that I'm about to get into.
30:10But when you compare some of the things that are being said by Robert Morris in his sermons
30:17and compare them to what Branham is teaching,
30:20it's really odd because I heard it and I'm scratching my head thinking,
30:24that's exactly what Branham said.
30:27Have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement started
30:30or how the progression of modern Pentecostalism transitioned through the latter reign,
30:36charismatic, and other fringe movements into the new apostolic reformation?
30:40You can learn this and more on William Branham Historical Research's website,
30:45william-branham.org.
30:48On the books page of the website,
30:50you can find the compiled research of John Collins, Charles Paisley,
30:54Stephen Montgomery, John McKinnon, and others,
30:57with links to the paper, audio, and digital versions of each book.
31:02You can also find resources and documentation
31:04on various people and topics related to those movements.
31:08If you want to contribute to the cause,
31:11you can support the podcast by clicking the Contribute button at the top.
31:15And as always, be sure to like and subscribe
31:17to the audio or video version that you're listening to or watching.
31:21On behalf of William Branham Historical Research,
31:24we want to thank you for your support.
31:26Even though Jesus was fully God,
31:30he completely laid down his divinity when he was on this earth.
31:39Completely.
31:40So that he could be fully human.
31:44So for you to understand the deep ties between
31:48what William Branham established
31:50and what later developed into the Word of Faith movement,
31:54the prosperity gospel movement,
31:57the manifested sons of God doctrines that we see today,
32:00the New Apostolic Reformation's foundation, basically,
32:04you have to first understand what Branham taught as the spoken word.
32:09And when I hear that phrase,
32:11it sends off all of these triggers in my head.
32:13Because growing up, spoken word publications
32:17was the business entity that William Branham's sons established
32:21after William Branham died to publish the spoken word.
32:25And I can remember sermon after sermon
32:28where the minister is holding his hands up
32:30and he says,
32:31it's just like a rifle.
32:32And he's got his hands up like this.
32:33And he says,
32:34you have to look through the spoken word to see the Bible.
32:38And only then can you hit your target.
32:40And he's holding up a spoken word book,
32:43which is literally a transcript of a sermon by William Branham.
32:47So they were equating William Branham's sermons
32:50to what they called the spoken word.
32:53And it was a companion to the written word.
32:57In some of the more destructive versions of William Branham's cult,
33:01I've been to churches like this,
33:03the spoken word actually was superior to the written word.
33:07If the spoken word said something that disagreed with the Bible,
33:10they chose the spoken word over what was said in the Bible.
33:14And sadly, that's more common, I think,
33:17than people want to admit.
33:19There are a lot of cases where William Branham said things
33:22that were actually anti-biblical,
33:24but people will choose the anti-biblical version
33:26over what is the biblical version.
33:29And that's what he called the spoken word.
33:31So to understand it, you have to understand that,
33:36as I said before, the Christian identity doctrine
33:38was developing into different theologies.
33:42And it was embedding itself into the revival movements
33:46through people like Gordon Lindsay, like Roy Davis,
33:50men who are teaching the Christian identity core concepts,
33:54but adding biblical theology to it
33:57to make it sound more appealing to the church members.
34:00And this idea that the manifested sons of God,
34:05the idea that Jesus himself was a manifestation of God
34:09rather than God sending his son, like the Bible said,
34:13the way that they did this was they tried to develop the notion
34:17that the word spoken, when it says,
34:22in the beginning was the word, the word was with God,
34:24the word was God, they tried to twist that Bible verse
34:27to say that Jesus was instead of the son of God,
34:32he was a thought that was expressed verbally by God
34:36and then spoken into power, essentially.
34:40And if you go back to some of William Branham's
34:43very, very heretical sermons,
34:46he says that in the beginning was the word
34:49and the word was with God, the word was God.
34:51Now, the word was the beginning, but before it was a word,
34:54a word is a thought made manifest.
34:57Now, God had to think it before it could become a word.
35:00Then he spoke the word and it materialized
35:02that same one that sent the Lord Jesus here
35:05by his spoken word.
35:06It materialized and became the son of God,
35:10died as an innocent for the guilty.
35:12So under William Branham's core theology,
35:15Jesus was just a human being.
35:17He was just a man.
35:19And he was spoken by the breath of God
35:23through the thought expressed,
35:24this manifested son of God thing.
35:27God spoke and then it happened.
35:29Think of how the word of faith operates.
35:31You speak and then it happens.
35:33This is where this came from.
35:35Branham is teaching this and it's not new to Branham.
35:38Branham was mentored by,
35:39in the revivals, he was mentored by F.F. Bosworth,
35:43who admitted, I think it's in the end of his book,
35:47Christ the Healer.
35:48He says that he was heavily inspired by E.W. Kenyon.
35:52So you've got E.W. Kenyon,
35:53who many of these doctrines did originate from,
35:57going through F.F. Bosworth,
35:58into Branham,
35:59into the word of faith,
36:00into the revivals,
36:01and the rest is history.
36:03It turns into this mess.
36:05But Branham's version of it specifically,
36:07it used the term,
36:09the spoken word.
36:11Because whenever he would read,
36:13in the beginning was the word,
36:14and the word was with God,
36:15and the word was God,
36:16he would say that was the spoken word,
36:18that was God's thought expressed,
36:20and it came into Jesus.
36:22And Jesus became a manifestation
36:24of the son of God.
36:26So when you understand that
36:28this manifestation of God
36:30was literally God
36:32who had a thought
36:33and spoke it as the spoken word
36:36into Jesus,
36:37and it turned Jesus,
36:38a human,
36:39into God,
36:40when you understand that
36:41that's where this theology came from,
36:43it really makes you pause,
36:44because this is one of the most
36:46heretical things that you can do.
36:48This is actually anti-biblical,
36:49but more than that,
36:50this is anti-Christ.
36:52This is an anti-Christ doctrine.
36:54And that's what
36:56William Branham is saying,
36:57and he's using the term,
36:59the spoken word,
37:00when he does this,
37:01which is key
37:02if you want to understand
37:03Robert Morris' theology.
37:06William Branham goes on to say that,
37:09again,
37:10when you don't understand
37:11the beginning of the Bible,
37:13which he did not,
37:13he understood the Christian
37:15identity version of it,
37:17you also can't understand salvation.
37:19So in his worldview,
37:22Jesus, who was a human,
37:24a mere human being
37:25who was manifested,
37:27who had this manifested spirit,
37:29when you understand
37:30how that works,
37:31you have a human vessel
37:32who is empowered with a spirit.
37:35Well,
37:35what happens when that spirit
37:36leaves the human?
37:38And in William Branham's worldview,
37:40and apparently,
37:41if you're understanding
37:43what Robert Morris is saying
37:44here,
37:45and in another quote
37:46that I'll play for you,
37:48when the spirit leaves Jesus,
37:50he is just a mortal human being.
37:52Well,
37:52that was Branham's exact theology.
37:55He said that before he died,
37:57the spirit left him
37:58in the Garden of Gethsemane.
38:00He said he had to die a man.
38:02And the reason behind this,
38:04he said it was God
38:05that anointed that flesh.
38:07In other words,
38:08under Branham's theology,
38:09God had the spoken word,
38:11the spoken word went into the flesh,
38:13which was human flesh.
38:15And Branham explicitly says,
38:17which was human flesh,
38:18referring to Jesus.
38:19He said that if he had went there as God,
38:22he would have never died
38:23that kind of death
38:24because you can't kill God.
38:26So again,
38:27to reiterate,
38:28William Branham,
38:30in the Lateran Revivals,
38:31he's the man who's leading the charge
38:34for the revivalists.
38:35He is the most popular in the revival.
38:37There are many men and women
38:39who are in the revival,
38:40hundreds if not thousands,
38:42of evangelists
38:43who are listening to William Branham,
38:45who are picking up on his doctrine,
38:47who are accepting it,
38:48who are planting all of these churches
38:50in the networks
38:51that would eventually
38:52become the New Apostolic Reformation,
38:55all of these apostolic churches.
38:57And he is teaching
38:58the Christian identity doctrines
38:59that he learned from Roy Davis,
39:02the second in command of the Klan.
39:04He is also being led by the,
39:08he's managed in the campaigns
39:09by Gordon Lindsay,
39:10who is a keynote speaker
39:12in the Christian identity movements.
39:14So every single evangelist,
39:16male or female,
39:17who are in these movements,
39:19who are also attending
39:20the Christian identity movements,
39:22the conventions that they had
39:24for Christian identity,
39:25they see Gordon Lindsay,
39:27and oh,
39:27he was a keynote speaker.
39:28This doctrine is,
39:30it must be affirmed
39:30by William Branham.
39:32Then they hear William Branham,
39:33and he's teaching it,
39:34and it twists and changes
39:37the understanding
39:39of true Christian doctrine.
39:40The core concepts of the Bible
39:43become twisted and skewed
39:45to fit the Christian identity model,
39:47not the biblical model.
39:49And that's exactly
39:50what's happening here.
39:51But the key to understand
39:52is William Branham
39:53pretty well branded it.
39:56This doctrine was branded,
39:58this idea that God
39:59had a thought and expressed it,
40:02and the thought expressed
40:03became Jesus.
40:04And that was a,
40:06literally the foundation
40:07of the word of faith.
40:08God spoke,
40:09and he believed
40:10what he said.
40:11And we believe what he said.
40:13If we believe
40:13in that spoken word,
40:14we're believing in Jesus.
40:16And it comes to pass
40:17that he is divinely God.
40:19That is how they say this.
40:21And they will use phrases
40:23just like Robert Morris did.
40:25He was fully God.
40:27They will say this
40:28and believe it.
40:28But what they're not telling you
40:30is they believe
40:31that he's fully God
40:32because of the spoken word.
40:35And that phrase,
40:36the spoken word,
40:36became essentially
40:38the branding
40:38that Branham would use
40:39for this.
40:40When you hear word of faith,
40:42they tried to rebrand it.
40:44Kenneth Hagin used
40:45the word rhema.
40:46There are different phrases
40:47and different terminologies
40:49that they use.
40:50But when you hear
40:51spoken word,
40:52you can almost be certain
40:53if they're using
40:55the phrase spoken word
40:56and they're using it
40:57in a way that
40:58is taking the divinity
41:00away from Jesus Christ,
41:02trying to say
41:03that he's just a human.
41:04They are,
41:05and especially
41:06if they're teaching
41:07the word of faith doctrines,
41:08they are teaching
41:09William Branham's doctrine,
41:10not even so much
41:12Kenneth Hagin
41:13or the other leaders
41:14of the word of faith.
41:15They are specifically
41:16teaching William Branham's doctrine.
41:18That was his branding
41:20and that was his company name,
41:21the spoken word.
41:23So the next question
41:25that I had
41:25after I learned
41:27that Robert Morris
41:28is teaching
41:28the anti-Christ doctrine
41:31that William Branham
41:31was teaching,
41:32did he also use
41:34the phrase,
41:35the spoken word,
41:36or did he use
41:37the different new branding
41:39that is used
41:40in the word of faith movement,
41:42the NAR today?
41:43Which did he use?
41:45And I started to understand
41:47as I began to study
41:48his sermons,
41:49not only is he using
41:51the phrase spoken word,
41:53he is using that phrase
41:54in the same exact way
41:56that William Branham
41:57taught it.
41:58This week,
41:59the title of the message
42:00is steward
42:01his spoken word.
42:04We're talking about
42:05in this series
42:06hearing God,
42:08so obviously
42:08we need to be good stewards
42:10of the written word of God.
42:13We need to honor it
42:14as the infallible.
42:15But I'm saying,
42:17are you stewarding
42:18the spoken word?
42:21In other words,
42:21when God speaks
42:22something to your heart,
42:24what do you do with it?
42:26It's very important.
42:28See, when we talk
42:28about stewardship,
42:30we talk about
42:31stewarding our time,
42:34our energy,
42:35our resources,
42:35and all that's important.
42:38But we have to have
42:39this message
42:40in a series
42:41about hearing God.
42:43How do you steward
42:44the word God speaks to you?
42:46So the question again,
42:49how did Robert Morris
42:50come across
42:51William Branham's
42:52spoken word theology,
42:54his spoken word doctrine,
42:55his anti-Christ theology
42:57where Jesus was just a human,
42:59where did he get this?
43:01And again,
43:01you have to understand
43:02that William Branham
43:04is mentored by the second
43:05in command of the Klan.
43:06This is where he first
43:07hears the Christian identity doctrine.
43:09He mentions this on recording.
43:11He is being,
43:13his campaigns are managed
43:15by Gordon Lindsay,
43:16who is a speaker,
43:17keynote speaker
43:18in Christian identity conferences,
43:20speaking to large numbers
43:22of men and women,
43:24some of whom
43:25are evangelists,
43:26some of whom
43:27may have attended
43:27the Christian identity conferences,
43:29maybe even the ones
43:31that Gordon Lindsay is at.
43:33And they're hearing
43:33these doctrines
43:34for themselves.
43:35They're hearing Branham
43:36say directly
43:37these spoken word concepts.
43:40So you have hundreds,
43:42if not thousands,
43:42of evangelists
43:43and ministers
43:44who are hearing
43:45Branham himself
43:47say the spoken word.
43:49Branham is selling
43:50his recordings
43:50and people are buying
43:51these recordings.
43:52They're listening to them.
43:53You have
43:54countless numbers
43:56of people
43:56who are listening
43:57to Branham say
43:58over and over
43:59the spoken word.
44:01And once you get
44:01into the 80s,
44:03whenever,
44:03you know,
44:04whenever Robert Morris
44:05shifted to charismania
44:07and many of the others did,
44:10you had spoken word publications
44:12who are also publishing this.
44:14So they're literally
44:15hearing about the spoken word
44:16on a cassette tape
44:18or a booklet
44:19that is labeled
44:20the spoken word.
44:22Which did it come from?
44:23It's hard to say.
44:24There's no way to know
44:25who is the first person,
44:26but you can be sure
44:28that there were many people
44:29who had heard
44:31this concept
44:31of the spoken word.
44:33And I know that
44:34people will,
44:35who are familiar
44:37with Robert Morris,
44:39let's say that likely
44:40it came from his connections
44:41with James Robison
44:43because James Robison
44:45was also a Baptist
44:46who converted
44:46to the charismatic movement.
44:48He was a popular
44:49televangelist
44:50and it could be,
44:53there's no way
44:53for me to know,
44:54but more than likely,
44:56you know,
44:57it was one of the many,
44:58many hundreds,
44:59if not thousands,
45:00of people
45:00who heard William Branham
45:01say the spoken word.
45:03And that shaped
45:04the theology
45:05that would eventually
45:06become word of faith.
45:07But it's not Robison
45:09that I'm going to focus on.
45:10It's actually a man
45:11by the name of Jack Hayford.
45:13And whenever you're
45:15thinking about
45:16charismatic movement
45:18mixed with the
45:20word of faith movement
45:21and understanding
45:22Branham's flavor of this,
45:24the spoken word flavor,
45:25the voice of God flavor,
45:26when you understand
45:28that he's teaching
45:30that doctrine
45:31and he's teaching
45:32the Christian identity's
45:34skew of that doctrine,
45:35you have to look back
45:37to Hayford
45:37because Hayford
45:38was also a
45:39Foursquare minister.
45:40He went to the same
45:41exact Life Bible College
45:43that Gordon Lindsay
45:44went to.
45:46And there's some
45:46very interesting history
45:48when you understand
45:49the history of Hayford.
45:50I know we have
45:51caller ID now,
45:53but I have several friends
45:54that have unlisted
45:55phone numbers.
45:56Two that call me a lot
45:58that I communicate
45:59with a lot,
45:59two of our apostolic elders,
46:01James Robinson
46:01and Jack Hayford.
46:03And so many times
46:04my phone,
46:05I'll get a phone call
46:05and it says,
46:06no caller ID.
46:08I'm thinking,
46:09it's probably James
46:10or Jack, you know.
46:11Well, Jack Hayford
46:12was an American
46:13Pentecostal minister,
46:15Chancellor Emeritus
46:16of the King's University,
46:18author, broadcaster,
46:20accomplished songwriter,
46:21the list goes on.
46:22He was a lot of things
46:24in the Christian religion.
46:26But he was formerly
46:27pastor of the church,
46:28the, I think it was called
46:29the Church of the Way
46:30in Van Nuys, California.
46:32This was one of the
46:33flagship churches
46:34for the Foursquare
46:36denomination.
46:37The same denomination
46:38that Gordon Lindsay
46:39was trained in.
46:41The same denomination,
46:42many of the others
46:43that Chuck Smith,
46:45we mentioned
46:45in the last podcast,
46:46he was a member of this.
46:49If you go down
46:49the Christian identity path,
46:51you have many
46:51Christian identity leaders
46:53connected to it.
46:54And not to say
46:55that they're connected
46:56to that today,
46:56but in their history,
46:58they have a history
46:59of training people
47:01who became
47:02Christian identity leaders.
47:03I'll just say it like that.
47:05But he was a,
47:07like I said,
47:07he was really big
47:08in the Pentecostal faith,
47:10Pentecostal religion.
47:12Several interesting facts
47:13about Hayford.
47:14The actor Dean Jones,
47:16who, if you're a fan
47:18of the classic Disney movies,
47:19which I am,
47:20Dean Jones is a name
47:21you'll be familiar with.
47:22He was in several
47:23really good movies.
47:25I think my favorite
47:26was Blackbeard's Ghost.
47:27It was a great movie
47:28if you haven't seen it.
47:30But Dean Jones
47:31was a elder in his church,
47:33as was Pat Boone,
47:34who became a big name
47:35in Charismania,
47:37along with Jan and Paul Crouch,
47:39the founders of
47:40the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
47:42Some big names
47:43were associated
47:44with Hayford.
47:45Well, Hayford,
47:46as I said,
47:47attended Life Bible College,
47:49and he was attending
47:52the college
47:53in the year 1954,
47:56which is,
47:57when you look at the history,
47:59it's just kind of
48:00an unbelievable history.
48:02As I said before,
48:04Roy Davis,
48:04William Branham's mentor,
48:05goes out to California.
48:07Branham,
48:07who is a no-name
48:08from this little small town
48:10in the middle of nowhere
48:12towards the Kentucky border
48:15of Indiana,
48:16suddenly rises
48:17to international fame.
48:18How did he do it?
48:20He connected to people
48:21in Los Angeles.
48:22How did he connect
48:22to Los Angeles?
48:23We don't know.
48:25Davis was there.
48:25Was he connecting?
48:27I don't know.
48:28There's a lot of questions
48:29around that time of history,
48:31but what we do know
48:33is that after Davis left
48:34and after Branham
48:36did connect
48:37with these big names,
48:38he started connecting
48:39to people
48:40in the Foursquare Church
48:42and in many of the
48:43Pentecostal sects
48:45within the nation.
48:46But one of the key figures
48:48that he connected to
48:49was this man
48:50named Leroy Kopp
48:52who was also
48:53in the Foursquare denomination.
48:56Kopp started to produce
48:58this video
48:59called The 20th Century Prophet,
49:01which was made
49:02specifically to advertise
49:04William Branham
49:05as the prophet
49:06for the 20th century.
49:07And so in 1954,
49:09as Jack Hayford
49:11is at Life Bible College,
49:13Leroy Kopp
49:14is going all throughout
49:15the Foursquare churches
49:18in California
49:18and showing his video
49:20of how William Branham
49:22is the prophet
49:23for our age, basically.
49:25And that is,
49:26again,
49:27it's connected
49:27to the Foursquare Church,
49:29which is a little bit
49:30unbelievable.
49:321954,
49:33William Branham
49:33holds a big revival
49:34on the West Coast.
49:35And probably
49:37on, you know,
49:39the heels of this video
49:40that's being produced.
49:421954 also
49:43is the time
49:44that as Christians,
49:46this is another podcast
49:47for another day.
49:48I think you can
49:49listen to this
49:50in the Converging Apostasy
49:51series I do with Steve.
49:53But this
49:53Flying Saucer Theology,
49:55which was really big
49:57in Christian identity,
49:58came into
49:59the latter reign
50:01post-World War II
50:02healing revivals.
50:03And it's even
50:04on the front page
50:04of the Voice
50:06of Healing magazines.
50:081954,
50:09Nixon
50:09gives a speech
50:11at the
50:12National Prayer Breakfast
50:14to the full gospel
50:15businessmen,
50:16which included Branham.
50:17You can see Branham
50:18in the photo.
50:19And he's telling people
50:20that the battle
50:21is in the minds.
50:22We need to
50:23fight the battle
50:24in the mind.
50:25We're going to fight
50:25the things
50:27that communism
50:27are doing
50:28to the minds
50:28of the people
50:29with our own
50:30barrage
50:30of things
50:31we're going
50:31to do
50:32to the minds.
50:33He made
50:34this appeal
50:34to the Christian
50:35ministers.
50:37And not long
50:38after this,
50:38or it's hard
50:40to know
50:41what came first,
50:42but the Christian
50:43ministers started
50:44doing propaganda
50:45campaigns about
50:46hydrogen bomb
50:48scenarios over
50:49Houston, Texas.
50:49You can even
50:50see that
50:50on the front page
50:52of the
50:52Voice of Healing
50:54magazine.
50:551954,
50:57Chuck Smith
50:57becomes Paul Cain's
50:59campaign manager.
51:00Paul Cain,
51:01who is also
51:01big in the
51:02New Apostolic
51:04Reformation.
51:05He was part
51:05of the Kansas
51:06City Fellowship,
51:07a big part
51:08of the founding
51:09of the International
51:10House of Prayer
51:11in Kansas City.
51:12This is 1954.
51:13And again,
51:14Chuck Smith
51:14came out of
51:15this Life Bible
51:16College.
51:17Chuck Smith
51:18is part of
51:18the Foursquare
51:19Church and
51:19a leader
51:20of the church.
51:21So Hayford
51:22is in the midst
51:23of all of this.
51:25And as he
51:26is graduating,
51:28he is watching
51:29as Branham
51:30is being
51:31promoted
51:31as the
51:32end-time
51:3320th century
51:34prophet.
51:35The guy.
51:35This is the
51:36big guy.
51:37And so
51:37it's hard to
51:39say what he
51:40was thinking,
51:41but it's very
51:41easy to say
51:42that if you
51:43were in the
51:43Foursquare Church,
51:44this was being
51:45heavily promoted
51:46and there's a
51:46strong possibility
51:47that you
51:48accepted the
51:49propaganda that
51:50was being fed
51:50to you.
51:51At minimum,
51:52Jack Hayford
51:53remained in
51:54the mindset
51:54and we can
51:56see that
51:56there is this
51:58weird connection
51:58of the
51:59spoken word
52:00being taught
52:00at the
52:01churches that
52:03he is being
52:04affiliated with.
52:05So we know
52:06that there
52:07is at least
52:08a connection
52:08through Hayford.
52:09There are
52:10probably many,
52:11many other
52:12connections.
52:141956,
52:15the same year
52:16that Jack
52:16Hayford
52:17graduated from
52:18Life Bible
52:18College,
52:19was the 50th
52:20anniversary of
52:21the Azusa
52:22Street Revival.
52:25And William
52:25Branham was one
52:26of the keynote
52:27speakers who
52:28came to the
52:29big festival
52:29for this.
52:31And this,
52:32again,
52:32this is all
52:33being sponsored
52:34by the
52:34Foursquare Church.
52:35Right after he
52:36was dubbed
52:37the 20th
52:38century prophet,
52:39he is one
52:40of the
52:40keynote speakers
52:41at the
52:41Foursquare Church
52:44in Los Angeles.
52:45And it's hard
52:46to say whether
52:47he was there
52:48or not.
52:48We don't have
52:49any attendance
52:49records.
52:50But the fact
52:51that he's in
52:51the Foursquare Church,
52:52the fact that
52:53he's attending
52:53Life Bible
52:54College at the
52:55time that all
52:56of this is
52:56going on,
52:58there is no
52:58way,
52:59at minimum,
52:59there is no
53:00way that he
53:00did not hear
53:01of William
53:01Branham.
53:02And I don't
53:03find any place
53:04where he denounced
53:05William Branham's
53:06heresy.
53:06And that's,
53:07I think,
53:07the bigger key.
53:08If he came in
53:09contact with
53:10Branham,
53:10which he had
53:11to have,
53:12there was no
53:12way he did
53:13not,
53:13and did not
53:14denounce the
53:15heresy,
53:16he's part of
53:16the problem.
53:17So Jack
53:18Hayford becomes
53:19one of the key
53:19pillars of,
53:21in the circle,
53:22inner circle of
53:23fellowship within
53:24Robert Morris's
53:26church,
53:26and he's
53:26apparently even
53:27on speed dial
53:28for Robert
53:29Morris,
53:29and he has a
53:30direct connection
53:31to all of
53:32this.
53:33So I can say
53:34without a doubt
53:36that that was a
53:37channel from
53:38which you could
53:39have some
53:40influence,
53:40I would say,
53:41from William
53:42Branham to
53:43Robert Morris.
53:44But again,
53:45without having the
53:46ability for me to
53:47ask directly,
53:48Robert Morris,
53:49where did you
53:50hear William
53:51Branham's
53:51spoken word
53:52theology?
53:53Where did you
53:54hear Branham's
53:54doctrine that
53:55Jesus was just
53:56a man who
53:57died as just
53:58a man on the
53:58cross,
53:59a human being
54:00who died for
54:01the sins of
54:01the world,
54:02which died and
54:03then there was
54:04nothing,
54:05because a human
54:05being died,
54:06not God.
54:07Where did you
54:08get this
54:09doctrine?
54:09I can't really
54:10ask him,
54:11so I can't
54:11say,
54:12but at least
54:13I've given a
54:14plausible trail
54:15of history that
54:16can show you
54:17where a hundred,
54:18if not a thousand
54:19different ministers
54:20could have given
54:20him this theology.
54:22That's the sad
54:23truth of this.
54:25In these
54:25apostolic networks,
54:27the way in which
54:28the information
54:29spreads and the
54:30way that it has
54:31developed over time
54:32through history,
54:33you don't know.
54:34The guy sitting
54:34next to you may
54:35have been influenced
54:36by this and he
54:36may become a
54:37leader in the
54:38movement.
54:38He may have
54:39some sort of
54:40skewed and
54:41twisted doctrine
54:42in his head
54:42that he learned
54:43from these
54:44leaders who were
54:45pushing Christian
54:46identity and
54:46other politics
54:48as the
54:49quote-unquote
54:49Christian gospel.
54:51There may be
54:52others out there
54:53who have learned
54:53it as well,
54:54who step up
54:55and become
54:55leaders.
54:56There's no way
54:57to know.
54:58But until more
54:59people stand up
55:00and say,
55:00no, we denounce
55:01this, we don't
55:02enjoy you talking
55:04negatively about
55:05Jesus Christ if
55:06we're a Christian,
55:07you shouldn't be
55:08preaching an
55:09anti-Christ
55:10doctrine.
55:11And until there's
55:13more people standing
55:13up and saying
55:14this, I think the
55:15problem will just
55:15continue to develop
55:17and grow, and
55:18you can see how
55:19bad it has
55:19grown today,
55:21Robert Morris
55:21being key
55:22example.
55:23So if you've
55:24enjoyed our show
55:24and you want
55:25more information,
55:25you can check us
55:26out on the web.
55:27You can find us
55:28at william-branham.org.
55:30For more about
55:30the dark side of
55:31the New Apostolic
55:32Reformation, you
55:33can read Weaponized
55:34Religion from
55:35Christian Identity
55:36to the NAR,
55:37available on
55:38Amazon, Kindle,
55:39and Audible.
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