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00:00On Palm Sunday, the bus on Route 62 happened to be on Peter and Paul Street, at the same
00:08moment a warhead was bearing down at 2,000 miles an hour.
00:15One blow on more than a dozen cameras.
00:21The attack in Ukraine is being investigated as a war crime, one of thousands in a Russian
00:28campaign against the innocent.
00:31The attack seems to be calculated to make as much destruction as possible and to terrorize
00:36the civilian population.
00:40Montana's landscape beguiles as it unfolds, a patchwork of golden prairies and green mountains
00:46with rivers that run through it.
00:48So when politicians in Washington, D.C. suggested selling off public lands for development, Montanans
00:55of all stripes stood in opposition.
00:57It's a red, white and blue issue.
01:00It's not a Democrat or Republican issue.
01:03This is an American issue.
01:04And once you sell land, you're not going to get it back.
01:10Steve Hartman, a veteran CBS News correspondent, and Lou Bope, a photographer, have spent the
01:16last seven years asking parents whose children were killed in school shootings for permission
01:21to take pictures of the empty rooms they left behind, rooms that have become sanctuaries,
01:27a tangible link to a child they can feel but no longer hold.
01:33All these physical things are tangible ways of reminding me, like, she was real, she was
01:38here, she lived with us.
01:40Yeah.
01:40I'm Leslie Stahl.
01:44I'm Scott Pelley.
01:45I'm Bill Whitaker.
01:46I'm Anderson Cooper.
01:48I'm Sharon Alfonsi.
01:49I'm Cecilia Vega.
01:50I'm John Wertheim.
01:52Those stories end in our last minute, one of the world's best soccer players, tonight on 60 Minutes.
01:57Russia's bombardment of Ukrainian cities is relentless as Vladimir Putin tries to plunge
02:12civilians into a winter of cold and darkness.
02:16President Putin's war, approaching four years, threatens to draw in all of Europe.
02:22Targeting civilians has been an international war crime since 1949.
02:28The crimes you're about to see are hard to watch.
02:32Putin is hitting homes, schools, hospitals, and seven months ago, a city bus.
02:39In the city of Sumi, bus route 62 takes you to the university, the mall, and on to the airport.
02:47The fare is 20 cents.
02:49Last April, Palm Sunday, there was only standing room, as two ballistic missiles bolted through
02:57the sky of a clear, holy day.
03:04The body is wrapped to preserve the evidence in the hope of a future trial.
03:10But a Ukrainian war crime prosecutor wanted us to see it, wanted the world to see.
03:16The steel corpse, where 16 civilians were killed.
03:25We climbed aboard with prosecutor Vitaly Doval, who showed us the shrapnel that sliced through
03:33the bus.
03:34This is from what the military calls an anti-personnel warhead.
03:39It's designed to kill as many people as possible.
03:45And it doesn't distinguish, Doval told us, whether it's a soldier or a child or a retiree.
03:53This little square will not spare anyone.
03:57And this is exactly why this is a war crime.
04:00The crime scene is a city of 250,000 less than 20 miles from Russia.
04:09Most days, in Sumi, are interrupted by an air raid.
04:12And so it was, last April 13th, Palm Sunday, for passengers on bus route 62.
04:25Tetiana Porhellova was taking Liza to her grandparents.
04:32Liza is a little girl, she told us.
04:36She wants to pick her own outfits, and we are always late.
04:42I wanted to catch that bus.
04:44The next one wouldn't come for an hour.
04:48Natalia Ternitska and her son Maxim were headed to the mall.
04:56It was the day before my son was going to have his school picture.
05:00We were going to buy some nice clothes.
05:02On one of Ukraine's holiest days, the bus happened to be on Peter and Paul Street.
05:11At the same moment, a warhead was bearing down with great precision at 2,000 miles an hour.
05:21One blow.
05:26On more than a dozen cameras.
05:32It got dark inside, Natalia told us.
05:40My ears started ringing.
05:43People were shouting to open the doors.
05:49The first thing I thought was that I could feel my body, Tetiana said.
05:54I thought, okay, I can feel everything.
05:57Liza is screaming, so we're alive.
06:00Lisa's screams carried on into the street.
06:07Tetiana is saying to her daughter,
06:09wait, my little sunshine.
06:12It's going to be all right.
06:14You have a little cut.
06:16A little cut.
06:21Tetiana told us, everything looked destroyed.
06:31I saw broken branches.
06:32There was the smell of burning and soot.
06:36And there were people lying on the ground.
06:40People who, you understand.
06:45Maxim told us, in the front of the bus, everyone was dead.
06:51I was walking on dead bodies.
06:56I urged him to leave me and run.
06:59But he said, no, that's never going to happen.
07:05He broke what was left of the window with his feet so we could escape.
07:09That's Natalia and Maxim among 25 surviving passengers.
07:17Many others on the street were cut down.
07:21In the lower right corner, a 47-year-old musician, a pianist, Olena Kohut, had watched the bus pass.
07:29Hit by shrapnel, bleeding out, she would live two more steps.
07:38All together, 35 civilians killed, two children, and 145 wounded.
07:53Prosecutor Vitaly Duval responded from his church.
08:00He told us, I have never seen such a horror in my life.
08:04Doval said, lots of people were lying on the pavement.
08:20I saw that bus that had burned.
08:24Doval told us, it was all mud, dust, blood, crying, and bodies.
08:32You seem to be saying, this isn't war.
08:37This is murder.
08:39In my opinion, yes.
08:43It is just unimaginable to use such powerful, high-precision weapons in the central part of a city.
08:54Doval's investigation shows there were two missiles, among the most accurate in the Russian arsenal.
09:03The first wrecked Sumi State University's Conference Center.
09:08The second, Peter and Paul Street.
09:12They're among hundreds of Russian war crimes, and we have seen many over the years in Ukraine.
09:19A school in Chernihii.
09:25A hospital in Izium.
09:30Apartments in Borodyanka.
09:33Mr. President, I'm glad to see you again, sir.
09:36Thank you for coming.
09:37Last April, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy met us on a playground, where a missile killed nine children and ten adults.
09:47All of those, so many more, and now this, make Ukraine the largest crime scene in the world.
09:55Ukraine's top prosecutor told us that the number of war crime investigations now open at the beginning of the fall is 178,391.
10:10They are systemic, literally everywhere that Russia's troops have been deployed.
10:15Few know the big picture, like Beth Van Skok.
10:19Until recently, she was U.S. ambassador-at-large for global criminal justice.
10:24She directed American support for Ukraine's investigations.
10:29Attacks happen in towns and villages where there are no discernible military objectives.
10:35The attack seems to be calculated to make as much destruction as possible and to terrorize the civilian population.
10:41So it's an effort to subjugate and to terrorize the community in order to get the country to essentially capitulate.
10:47The reason for Russia's terror is to take back territory it lost with the fall of the Soviet Union.
10:56Ukraine won independence 34 years ago.
10:59It's a democracy about the size of Texas.
11:03Of all of the crimes here, Putin faces one arrest warrant.
11:09In 2023, the International Criminal Court charged him in a campaign against Ukrainian children.
11:15He is accused of abducting Ukrainian children in a systematic way.
11:21It's a war crime.
11:22It's a war crime of unlawful transfer of civilians, and in this case, dozens and dozens of Ukrainian children.
11:28And these children are being kidnapped?
11:30They're being kidnapped.
11:31They're being subjected to Russification, to military training.
11:35They're forced to deny their Ukrainian roots.
11:38And ultimately, they're often put up for adoption or placed in foster homes in Russia.
11:41What is the point?
11:42The point is to ultimately undermine the idea that Ukraine is an independent country and to raise these children as Russian children who deny their own cultural heritage.
11:54Putin and his allies, who are secure in Russia, are unlikely to face justice.
12:01But Ukraine is holding trials.
12:03There have been 211 convictions, many Russian troops, though nearly all of the defendants are at large.
12:13Still, Prosecutor Vitaly Doval has patience.
12:17He showed us where evidence for future trials is warehoused, including crashed drones and mangled missiles.
12:25On each part, we find a serial number.
12:30We identify the part where the part was manufactured and when this missile was assembled in a factory.
12:36In the Palm Sunday massacre, serial numbers, like fingerprints, identified Russian ballistic missiles with 1,000-pound warheads.
12:48Ukrainian intelligence pinpointed the Russian units involved.
12:53Doval told us,
12:54We already know the individuals who gave the orders to carry out the attacks.
13:01Do you have any reason to hope for justice?
13:07I am convinced that those responsible for the strike at the central part of the city on Palm Sunday will be punished.
13:16The military commanders who made the decision to launch these missiles, I am convinced.
13:22You have to move permanently.
13:26Natalia Terninska told us,
13:29They're killing civilians.
13:31It's elimination of the Ukrainian nation.
13:35They're just wiping our cities off the face of the earth.
13:40We interviewed Maxim and Natalia,
13:44Tatiana and Liza,
13:45in the conference center,
13:47destroyed by the first missile.
13:49We could see where the warhead crashed through to the basement.
13:54The Russians claim they were aiming at a military awards ceremony.
14:00But prosecutor Vitaly Doval says that doesn't explain how no troops were hit
14:06and why two missiles fell on civilians.
14:10You have quite a stake in the future of Ukraine.
14:14And I wonder, what is your hope?
14:18Tatiana told us,
14:20I would like the Russians to answer for what they've done.
14:23I don't wish death on those people.
14:26I want them to learn how it feels to live in fear.
14:31I wish Ukraine could see the end of the war.
14:35And I want people to be able to live in their own homes.
14:41That's it.
14:44Near our interview,
14:46we found a room where it looked to us like a victim may have fallen.
14:51Close by,
14:53in the bomb dust on the table,
14:55someone had drawn a line.
14:57We don't know what they meant.
15:00But with so many innocent victims murdered without justice,
15:05perhaps the question
15:07was why.
15:08The old license plates read Big Sky Country,
15:20but inside Montana,
15:21there's an unofficial state motto,
15:24the last best place.
15:26Hemmed by the plains in the Pacific Northwest,
15:28Montana is a patchwork of golden prairies in green mountains,
15:32with rivers that run through it.
15:34And the last best place suggests
15:36a warding off of the onslaught of outside forces.
15:40So this year,
15:40when Washington, D.C. politicians suggested
15:43selling off public lands for development
15:45as part of the so-called Big Beautiful Budget Bill,
15:49Montanans of all political stripes stood in opposition.
15:52Is this a rare example of modern bipartisanship,
15:55proof that there are some issues
15:57that can knit Americans together?
15:59Or are these frontier folk
16:01just delaying the inevitable?
16:02Montana's landscape beguiles as it unfolds.
16:08The kind of sheer beauty that could stop traffic,
16:12if there were traffic to stop.
16:16The scale is hard to exaggerate.
16:19It's a state roughly the size of California,
16:22with roughly the population of greater Fresno,
16:25just north of one million.
16:27Montanans speak fondly of their neighbors,
16:29who might live 50 miles away.
16:33As for the land itself,
16:35it's not mere real estate.
16:36It's there for recreation.
16:39A corridor for wildlife.
16:41It's symbolic, too.
16:42The open frontier is an emblem
16:44of freedom and possibility.
16:46It's something deeper, sacred even.
16:48Like, spiritual, right?
16:51So, like, some people find that in church
16:53or in other ways.
16:55And for me, it's just being out
16:57where your feet are on the ground
16:59and actually connecting with this space.
17:02And then if you spend enough time in those spaces
17:04and on that landscape,
17:06it's like land is kin, right?
17:07It starts to feel like...
17:08Land is kin.
17:09Yeah.
17:10Brian Mannix is a rancher
17:11who, along with his Uncle Dave and Cousin Logan,
17:14raise cattle in western Montana.
17:16They've been on this plot since 1882
17:19when their forebears first homesteaded here.
17:22With lineage comes perspective.
17:25As ranchers, you guys have talked about
17:27feeling like you're stewards of the land
17:29more than you're owners of the land.
17:31What's the difference?
17:32It's not ours.
17:33It's just our return.
17:35If you're going to steward that land,
17:36you're going to treat that land in a way
17:38that maybe doesn't maximize your life
17:41but is better for multiple generations of human beings
17:44because this place is going to outlast all of us
17:48by a long ways.
17:53The Mannix's operation relies on a mix of land,
17:56around 55,000 acres all told,
17:59more than three Manhattans.
18:01It's land they own,
18:02private land they lease from others,
18:05plus federal plots they pay a relatively small fee to use.
18:09So earlier this year,
18:11when members of Congress proposed
18:13the wholesale sell-off of cracks of public land,
18:16the first serious effort of its kind
18:18in more than four decades,
18:20the Mannix's, well, bridled.
18:22Yeah, to me it's worrisome
18:24because I think that you can have
18:26a very nuanced conversation about management,
18:30but whether or not should we have these lands
18:33as public lands, to me, is a no-brainer.
18:36The federal government owns and manages
18:39about 640 million acres of American land,
18:43most of it in the West and Alaska.
18:46Yes, those breathtaking national parks,
18:48but also huge tracks for conservation,
18:51recreation, and moneymakers like ranching,
18:54mining, and logging.
18:56Interior-managed resources hold a significant
18:58position on Americans' balance sheet.
19:00The Trump administration,
19:02including Interior Secretary Doug Burgum,
19:04have made clear, federal lands
19:07could be generating much more value
19:09if there were better management,
19:11fewer regulations, and more vigorous extraction.
19:14One of my top priorities has been
19:16to make a small percentage
19:19of underused federal land
19:21available to address housing affordability.
19:25But Utah Senator Mike Lee
19:27went further this year,
19:28putting forward his measure
19:30as part of the big, beautiful budget bill
19:32that proposed selling public land
19:34as much as 3 million acres across the West.
19:37Federal land is a massive, underutilized asset.
19:41Lee's proposal did not list specific parcels,
19:45but he and some Republican colleagues reasoned
19:47selling land would address America's housing shortage
19:50and also help pay down the nation's debt.
19:53If the public land that you use were sold off,
19:56could you run your business?
19:57The answer is yes,
19:59but it would be something less than what it is now.
20:02If we lost our public leases,
20:04we would lose a significant amount of income,
20:06so absolutely it would impact us.
20:10In Montana,
20:11selling public land was perceived as an attack
20:14on a way of life already under stress.
20:17In recent years,
20:18the moneyed class has descended.
20:21Westward Ho.
20:21Exclusive enclaves like the Yellowstone Club,
20:26studded with eight-figure residences,
20:28are proliferating.
20:31In the last five years alone,
20:33home prices in the state have vaulted nearly 70%.
20:36So much private land is being sold and developed.
20:41Construction, sprawl,
20:42for sale signs,
20:44they're everywhere.
20:45In Big Sky,
20:46in Bozeman,
20:47Boz Angeles,
20:50they call it,
20:51in the remote Ruby Valley.
20:54When we all come together...
20:56Which is where we met Donna MacDonald,
20:58a hunting and fishing guide,
20:59John Helley,
21:00a sheep rancher,
21:01Chris Edgington,
21:03a fly fisherman
21:03and river health advocate,
21:05Emily Cleveland,
21:06a conservationist.
21:08They come from across the state
21:09and across the political spectrum.
21:11They find common cause
21:13in a devotion to public lands.
21:15Could you run your business
21:17if the public lands were sold off?
21:19No.
21:20There would not be a business to run.
21:23From the ranching community
21:24to the guiding community
21:25to the wildlife
21:27that the hunters and the anglers use,
21:30spend a lot of time on public lands.
21:33In some states,
21:35the vast majority of the territory
21:36is federally owned.
21:38Montana is about 30%.
21:39How did we get here?
21:41As the nation expanded in the 1800s
21:44and as Native Americans
21:46were forcefully removed,
21:47some land was settled by homesteaders
21:49or sold to industrialists.
21:51But much fell to the federal government.
21:54Further out that way.
21:56Good work, good work.
21:58McDonald, who grew up in this valley,
22:00makes a living taking guests
22:02out on the private and public lands
22:03that surround her property.
22:05She invited us to do some fishing.
22:07How long have you been doing this?
22:09I can't remember not doing it, John.
22:11You're out on the river.
22:13It's a nice day.
22:14You're in nature.
22:15And it's worth saving.
22:18Preservation is often,
22:20literally and figuratively,
22:21a grassroots endeavor.
22:23Really good to see everybody.
22:25Donna, John, Chris, and Emily
22:27sit on the Ruby Valley Strategic Alliance,
22:30one of many local land management groups
22:32across the state and the West.
22:34At a time of hyper-polarization,
22:36these folks, the Birkenstock crowd
22:39and the Cowboy Boot crowd,
22:40do something radical.
22:42They respect their differences
22:43and get along.
22:45Well, it's kind of like
22:46when neighbors get together
22:47to build the fence.
22:48We can stand there and argue
22:50about where to put the post
22:51or we can roll up our sleeves
22:52and build the fence together.
22:54A little glimpse into Montana.
22:56Yeah.
22:57Well, I think we finally came to realize
22:59that we all had kind of
23:00the same goals in mind
23:02and, you know,
23:03save some of the last best places here.
23:06And now we have more tree growth.
23:09In response to the land sale proposal,
23:11hunters and hikers locked arms.
23:14Not one acre became a rallying cry.
23:17The Ruby Valley group spoke out publicly
23:19and lobbied Montana's two senators
23:21and two congressmen, all Republicans.
23:24That was an easy one
23:25to all come to agreement on.
23:27Not a lot of dissent.
23:29We all realize the importance
23:31of the public land.
23:33And once it's gone,
23:34it's gone forever.
23:34I suspect there's some people saying,
23:36wait a second,
23:37you've got all this land.
23:38What's wrong with converting that
23:40into housing
23:41and using it in other ways?
23:44Yeah, I think a lot of our public lands
23:46aren't really close to infrastructure
23:48that would be necessary
23:49for wide-scale housing developments.
23:52And selling public lands
23:53to generate income and revenue
23:55is just not something that makes sense.
23:58I think it's a slippery slope.
24:00It is.
24:01What do you mean?
24:01I mean, if we sell this chunk
24:04or that chunk,
24:05I mean, where would it end?
24:08Which is precisely the case
24:09they made to their representatives,
24:11like Ryan Zinke.
24:13We kept hearing,
24:13you have zero political future
24:15in this state,
24:16unless you oppose the sale of public lands.
24:18I think Montanans are very passionate
24:21about the public lands
24:23because we live out here.
24:24You heard pretty clear on this one.
24:26I think it's absolutely crystal clear.
24:29Zinke grew up in Whitefish, Montana
24:31and served as a Secretary of the Interior
24:34during President Trump's first term.
24:36Now he represents Western Montana in the House.
24:40He called the land sale proposal
24:41his San Juan Hill,
24:43a nod to Teddy Roosevelt,
24:45noted conservationist.
24:46Rough translation,
24:48over my dead body.
24:50Public lands is not, to me,
24:52on a balance sheet.
24:53Public lands is our inheritance
24:56of this great nation
24:58and we're blessed with it.
24:59There is no other country
25:01on the face of the planet
25:02that has the public land experience
25:05that we do.
25:06On this issue,
25:07Zinke's no ideologue.
25:08On a case-by-case basis,
25:10within the existing laws,
25:11he says he's open
25:12to rethinking public land use.
25:15What he does oppose?
25:16Wholesale sell-off.
25:18You could sell the entirety
25:20of the federal state.
25:21It's not going to get you out of debt.
25:23If you have a hotel
25:24and the hotel is being mismanaged,
25:27you don't sell the hotel.
25:29You get new management.
25:31And then if you sell the public land,
25:32you sell it all, right?
25:34Have you changed why you're in debt?
25:36No, you've just sold your assets.
25:38People supporting this say,
25:39what's the harm of unlocking some of this
25:42so we can build affordable housing?
25:44Why are those people wrong?
25:45Well, if we want to discuss,
25:47you know, reality,
25:48you know,
25:49selling all our public land for housing,
25:51one, it won't solve the housing crisis.
25:54And secondly,
25:55you know,
25:56public land itself,
25:57if it's managed well,
25:59you should be able to bring timber off of it.
26:01You should be able to graze.
26:04Energy,
26:05oil,
26:05coal,
26:06gas,
26:07all,
26:07a lot of that comes from our public lands.
26:10Zinke was instrumental in getting the land sale proposal
26:13killed in the House.
26:15He then coordinated with his colleagues in the Senate
26:17where Mike Lee had crafted a special carve-out
26:20exempting Montana.
26:22But that didn't win over the state's delegation.
26:25The measure was abandoned.
26:26In a statement to 60 Minutes,
26:28Senator Lee said in part,
26:30quote,
26:31the federal government controls more land than it can manage,
26:34hurting the growth and prosperity of American families
26:37and their communities.
26:38Perhaps more than any other state,
26:41Montana stood in the breach,
26:43thwarting the sale efforts.
26:45Though there is widespread expectation
26:47public land sales will come up again in Congress.
26:51This is an era where party unity
26:54in the Republican Party is strong.
26:56You went against the grain here.
26:58You stuck your neck out.
26:59It's a red, white, and blue issue.
27:01It's not a Democrat or Republican issue.
27:04This is an American issue.
27:05And once you sell land, you're not going to get it back.
27:09The challenge is this.
27:10On this point in particular,
27:11Zinke has seen his state transformed.
27:14Behind us is the Yellowstone River.
27:16And below us, the Yellowstone dumps into the Missouri.
27:19What's changed?
27:20When I grew up, you know, there was less people.
27:23You see all these houses in there.
27:24There wasn't maybe one or two houses
27:26in this whole valley along the river.
27:29Zinke knows changes to land bring changes to culture.
27:34Locals complain they no longer know their neighbors.
27:37No trespassing signs suddenly abound.
27:41Montanans, like the Mannix's,
27:42are tracking the public land's issue closely.
27:45If an unsentimental government gets in on the sale,
27:48there really goes the neighborhood.
27:51Often, what we see is the most valuable thing
27:54to do with this land, probably forever now,
27:57will be to chop it up and sell it in small chunks
28:00for people to have a little piece of paradise.
28:03And I think that's going to be true
28:04whether it's a ranch that sells
28:06or public land that sells.
28:08To borrow a phrase,
28:11this land is your land,
28:13this land is my land.
28:16People here just hope it stays that way.
28:31Since the mass shooting
28:33at Sandy Hook Elementary School
28:34in Newtown, Connecticut 13 years ago,
28:37more than 160 children have been killed
28:39in school shootings across the U.S.
28:42They've left behind devastated families and friends
28:45and empty bedrooms they once filled with life.
28:49For many parents,
28:50these rooms have become sanctuaries,
28:52a tangible link to a child
28:54they can still feel but no longer hold.
28:58Steve Hartman, a veteran CBS News correspondent,
29:00and Lou Bope, a photographer,
29:02have spent the last seven years
29:04asking parents whose children have been killed
29:06for permission to take pictures
29:08of the empty rooms they've left behind.
29:11No easy task.
29:13They are, after all,
29:14portraits of a child who's no longer there.
29:20Up a flight of stairs in their Nashville home,
29:23Chad and Jada Scruggs took us
29:25to see their daughter Hallie's room.
29:27It remains as she left it one Monday morning
29:30two and a half years ago.
29:31I don't think anything's changed.
29:34Hallie Scruggs loved Legos,
29:36Tennessee football,
29:37and hiding things in a toy safe
29:39from her three older brothers.
29:41The books she and her mom read together at night
29:44are still stacked by her bed.
29:46A school project with important milestones in her life,
29:50a reminder Hallie was just nine years old.
29:53First two, first soccer game,
29:55first Tennessee game.
29:57That was a milestone.
29:59Yeah.
30:00This is the first time they held her.
30:02I love that picture.
30:04I do wonder sometimes,
30:05like, what will we do with this room eventually?
30:08All these physical things
30:09are tangible ways of reminding me.
30:12Like, she was real, she was here,
30:14she lived with us.
30:15Yeah.
30:15In some ways, this room kind of holds the space for her.
30:18Yeah.
30:18And so, um...
30:20And it still does, right?
30:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:23Oopsies!
30:25Hallie was killed along with two classmates,
30:28Evelyn Dickhouse and William Kinney,
30:30in a shooting at the Covenant School in Nashville in 2023.
30:34What has grief been like for you?
30:37It felt like everything collapsed,
30:38everything, internally.
30:41Um, pain that, I mean...
30:44Uh, gosh.
30:47It's just hard to endure.
30:48And then, you know,
30:50you have to relearn how to do everything,
30:52like how to eat,
30:53uh, have sleep.
30:55And you just have a new relationship
30:58with pain and sadness and anger.
31:00There's been joy, too,
31:01but, um...
31:03The sadness, um,
31:08was...
31:09has been...
31:10was just,
31:12I mean, overwhelming.
31:13Chad is a pastor at the church
31:15that's part of the Covenant School.
31:17He was drawn to Hallie's room
31:19the day she was killed.
31:21I went into her room
31:22to lay on her bed to smell.
31:23I knew that would go.
31:25And I wanted...
31:26You knew the smell would dissipate?
31:28Oh, yeah.
31:28Yeah, yeah.
31:29And her blankie was there
31:30and everything was there.
31:31And you could smell her that night?
31:32Oh, yeah.
31:33Absolutely.
31:34Yeah.
31:35That was true probably
31:35for a week or two after.
31:37So you're trying to get her back.
31:38And it's not possible.
31:39But you don't believe that.
31:42Um, and so anything that...
31:45Uh, that draws that possibility closer,
31:48I wanted to be there for that.
31:49So, yeah.
31:51I went in,
31:52just laid on her bed
31:53and cried by myself.
31:56Has your relationship
31:57to the room changed over time?
31:59Maybe it's not as frequent
32:01that I go up there,
32:03but the feelings haven't changed
32:05when I go in the room.
32:07Um, you know,
32:08it kind of captures
32:09all the feelings of sadness and joy
32:11just because it's...
32:14It's a capsule of time.
32:16I think initially that room
32:20was, for me,
32:24an indication of, like, presence.
32:26Mm-hmm.
32:26And now it feels more
32:27of an indication of absence.
32:28Absence, yeah.
32:29You know?
32:30Um, it feels more like a relic now.
32:32Like a relic.
32:33A relic.
32:34Yeah.
32:35Some 2,000 miles away,
32:37in Santa Clarita, California,
32:39another room,
32:41another child killed.
32:43I wanted to kill you, man.
32:45This is Gracie Muehlberger.
32:47She was 15.
32:49She adored her brothers
32:50and her van sneakers.
32:52She was killed six years ago
32:54in the Saugus High School shooting.
32:56Cindy and Brian Muehlberger
32:58are her parents.
32:59Do you remember the first time
33:00you went into Gracie's room after?
33:03Right when we got home
33:04from the hospital.
33:05You went right to her room?
33:06Right to her room.
33:08And that's where I spent, like,
33:10the next week or two.
33:11Yeah.
33:12I slept in her bed.
33:14I just...
33:14It's the closest I could feel to her, so...
33:17Did that feeling, though,
33:18of the room providing comfort,
33:20did that last for a long time?
33:22Yes.
33:23Oh, yeah.
33:23Always.
33:24Yeah.
33:25Gracie Muehlberger
33:27and Hallie Scruggs' rooms
33:28are two of eight
33:29that were photographed
33:30as part of the project
33:31begun by Steve Hartman,
33:33on the very first day back at school...
33:35who began covering these tragedies
33:37for CBS News 28 years ago.
33:40This was his first,
33:41a shooting at a high school
33:43in Pearl, Mississippi,
33:44two years before the massacre
33:46at Columbine High School
33:48in Littleton, Colorado.
33:49It was news at the time.
33:52A school shooting
33:52was actually big news.
33:54As opposed to now?
33:55As opposed to now.
33:56It still gets coverage,
33:57but it's usually a day or two.
33:59And people forget about them,
34:02I'd say,
34:02by the end of the week,
34:03many times.
34:04Initially, in your mind,
34:06what was the idea?
34:07I wanted to shake people
34:09out of this numbness
34:10that I was feeling
34:12whenever there was
34:13a school shooting.
34:14Now, I was moving on quickly.
34:16I was forgetting the names
34:17of the children who were lost,
34:19and I knew the country
34:21was doing the same.
34:22So seven years ago,
34:24he began writing letters
34:25to parents asking
34:27to photograph
34:28their murdered children's rooms.
34:30Because when you go
34:30into a kid's room,
34:31you go into my kid's room,
34:33you see their whole history.
34:34You see every dream,
34:35every desire,
34:36everything they value.
34:38It's all there on the walls
34:39and sitting on the shelves.
34:40Or scattered on the floor.
34:41Or scattered on the floor
34:42in some cases.
34:44It's all there.
34:45And I don't think
34:46there's really a better way
34:48to get to know a kid
34:49and to remember a life
34:51than to look around that room,
34:54to stand in that space.
34:57Eight families,
34:58whose children were killed
34:59in five different schools,
35:01agreed to let photographer
35:02Lou Boop
35:03into their kids' rooms.
35:05At a recent exhibit in New York,
35:06he showed us some
35:07of the 10,000 photos
35:09he's taken.
35:10You know,
35:10I'm trying to take a picture
35:11of a child who's not there.
35:14Dominic Blackwell's room
35:15is still filled with SpongeBob.
35:18He was killed
35:18along with Gracie Muehlberger
35:20at Saugus High School.
35:22Dominic was 14.
35:24A basket of his laundry
35:25still waits to be washed.
35:27A toothpaste tube
35:29remains uncapped
35:30in the bathroom
35:30of 14-year-old
35:31Alyssa Alhadeff,
35:33killed at Marjory Stoneman
35:34Douglas High School
35:35in Parkland, Florida.
35:37Charlotte Bacon
35:38loved pink.
35:39She was six,
35:41killed at Sandy Hook.
35:43There's a library book
35:44in her room
35:45that's now 13 years overdue.
35:48If that's not
35:48a little girl's room,
35:49I don't know what is.
35:52And even this,
35:52this to me,
35:53it's so poignant
35:55the way the head
35:56is tilted down.
35:59It's such a reminder
36:00that while everybody else
36:03moves on
36:04from what is a story
36:07to them,
36:10the families never move on.
36:11That's part of the reason
36:12the families did agree
36:14because it's very frustrating
36:16for them
36:16when the country moves on.
36:18And they certainly
36:20haven't moved on
36:20and will never move on.
36:22I think there's such weight
36:24for these parents
36:25in being
36:26the holders
36:27of the memory
36:28that they are the only ones
36:30who remember.
36:32Excuse me.
36:33It's okay.
36:34What are you thinking about?
36:39Whew.
36:43I've been in a lot
36:44of these rooms as well
36:45and there's such sadness
36:46in being the last ones left
36:50who remember
36:51everything about this child.
36:53And that's why
36:54they can't surrender
36:55the rooms
36:56because you surrender
36:58the rooms
36:59and that's just another piece
37:01of their kid that's gone.
37:05Steve Hartman's project
37:06is now the subject
37:08of an upcoming documentary
37:09on Netflix.
37:10It follows him
37:11and Lou Bope
37:12as they travel
37:13across the country
37:14visiting rooms
37:15including Dominic Blackwell's
37:17and Gracie Muehlberger's.
37:19This is what she was
37:20going to wear on Friday?
37:22Well, she was either
37:23going to wear this outfit
37:24or this outfit
37:25or this dress.
37:29Did she do this often?
37:30Yes.
37:30Prepare the next day's clothes?
37:32Yeah, Monday through Friday.
37:34When Brian and Cindy Muehlberger
37:36received Steve's letter
37:38in 2024,
37:39they were considering moving
37:41but didn't know
37:42how they could leave
37:42their daughter's room behind.
37:45How much of the discussion
37:46was about
37:46what do we do with the room?
37:48I would say
37:49that was the primary driver
37:51of us not moving sooner.
37:54I mean, after the shooting,
37:55we wanted to get out of town.
37:57But you didn't want
37:58to leave that room.
37:59But we didn't want
37:59to leave that room.
38:00Yeah.
38:01You know, it's like
38:02do you take a lot of pictures of it
38:05and then try to recreate it
38:06somewhere else?
38:07We didn't know
38:07what to do with it.
38:08And it really wasn't
38:10until this opportunity
38:12to work with Steve
38:13on this film
38:13that we started
38:15feeling a peace about it.
38:19Earlier this year,
38:21the Muehlbergers felt ready.
38:23They sold their house
38:24and packed up Gracie's room.
38:26This was from, I believe,
38:28when she was in Girl Scouts.
38:30It's cute.
38:31They found mementos,
38:34artwork, and cards
38:35she made they hadn't seen
38:37in years.
38:37You are the best dad
38:38a girl can have.
38:41Love, Gracie.
38:42Read P.S.
38:44I love you.
38:48Oh, my goodness.
38:50All these treasures, right?
38:52Mm-hmm.
38:53For now,
38:54they placed them
38:55in a storage unit
38:56while they build
38:57a new home
38:58and a new life
38:59in Georgia.
39:00When you found this,
39:04did you know
39:06how you wanted
39:06to kind of incorporate Gracie?
39:08Not initially.
39:10In September,
39:10they showed us
39:11the plot of land
39:12where they'll live
39:13and an area
39:14they're going to create
39:15called Gracie's Point.
39:17So this is going
39:18to be Gracie's Point?
39:19Yeah, this kind of area
39:20right here
39:21where when you're out here,
39:23you know,
39:23all you've got is nature
39:25and the water.
39:27And a place,
39:28a fire pit,
39:29a place where people
39:29have them come together.
39:30Yeah, come together.
39:31She loved doing s'mores
39:33and things like that.
39:35It could not be
39:36a more beautiful spot.
39:37Yeah.
39:38So peaceful,
39:40which is what
39:40we were looking for.
39:43Is this project
39:44over for you?
39:46No.
39:47If parents want us to,
39:48we'll continue
39:49to document the rooms
39:50just so they have
39:52the pictures.
39:53I wish this project
39:54would end,
39:56but I don't anticipate
39:58it will.
40:00Back in Nashville,
40:02Chad and Jada Scruggs
40:03have no plans
40:04to change Hallie's room.
40:06But they did send
40:07some of her drawings
40:08and journals
40:09to an artist,
40:10Brenda Bogart,
40:11who created
40:11this collage portrait
40:13of her.
40:13Everything on this
40:14canvas
40:15is something
40:17that was made
40:17by Hallie's hand.
40:19Brenda went through
40:20and noticed
40:21a theme of
40:22I am happy,
40:24I am happy,
40:25I am happy.
40:27She pretty much
40:28ended every journal entry
40:29with I am happy.
40:31She wanted to make sure
40:32that that got put
40:33on Hallie.
40:34When people see
40:35the photos
40:36of Hallie's room,
40:38what would you like
40:38them to take away?
40:40This is not
40:41a generic person.
40:44You know,
40:44someone
40:45that uniquely
40:50bore God's image
40:54in the world
40:55and irreplaceable.
40:59And we just
41:00want you to know her.
41:02You know,
41:03she's worth being known.
41:05We don't have
41:05a lot of aspirations
41:06beyond that.
41:08We want you
41:09to come step
41:11inside of our world
41:12for a moment.
41:14Step inside
41:15the sadness.
41:16Yeah.
41:17And feel it.
41:19People can talk
41:20about solutions,
41:21but until they feel
41:23the weight of the problem,
41:25I don't know
41:25how to really
41:25talk about solutions.
41:31How the Muleberger
41:33family lives
41:34by Gracie's words.
41:35You only have
41:36one life to live,
41:37so why not
41:38live it great
41:39at 60minutesovertime.com.
41:46The last minute
41:48of 60 minutes
41:49is sponsored
41:50by UnitedHealthcare,
41:52coverage you can count on
41:53for your whole life ahead.
41:55Now, a look ahead
41:58to next week
41:59and our story
42:00on La Minha Mal,
42:01a Spanish sensation
42:02who ranks among
42:03the brightest stars
42:04in the soccer cosmos
42:05and routinely
42:07pulls off feats
42:08like this.
42:13He may play
42:14in Barcelona,
42:15but like a global
42:16pop star,
42:17his appeal
42:17rockets around
42:18the world,
42:19his skill set
42:20as gleaming
42:20as his smile.
42:22And he's only 18.
42:23The goals
42:24and the assists
42:25are all well
42:25and good,
42:26but you've made
42:26braces cool.
42:28Doesn't get better
42:28than that.
42:32I'm John Wertheim.
42:33That story
42:34and more
42:34next week
42:35on another edition
42:36of 60 Minutes.
42:37No matter
42:41how you start
42:42your day,
42:42one thing
42:43is very clear.
42:44CBS Mornings
42:45is the best way
42:46to start your day.
42:47Clearly.
42:47You look good,
42:48feel good,
42:49ball crew good.
42:49So what's on the menu today?
42:51Try the one
42:51that Gail made.
42:53Is this a different
42:54way of doing philanthropy?
42:55Call me Mr. Fix-It.
42:57I could do this
42:58till sunset.
42:59I am about to hop
42:59in with sharks.
43:00I feel alive.
43:02You will do it.
43:02We'll see you
43:06on CBS Mornings
43:077 o'clock.
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