- 5 hours ago
Category
📺
TVTranscript
00:00Largely unseen and unknown to the general public.
00:03A body of professional journalists
00:05known as the Federal Parliamentary Press Gallery.
00:08When the brand-new Parliament of Australia
00:11opened for business in 1901,
00:13it was a cramped and ramshackle affair.
00:16Prime Minister Edmund Barton
00:18slept in the attic of the temporary Melbourne building.
00:23And offices were in short supply.
00:27But premium space was made for the 31 newspaper reporters
00:31who made up the press gallery.
00:34Why?
00:35They were the vital conduit of information
00:37about Australia's new democracy to its people.
00:40For the political journalist,
00:42friends in high places are essential,
00:44enemies in high places unavoidable.
00:46These pressmen breathed the same air as the politicians,
00:49and their stories, whether positive or negative,
00:52dominated Australia's understanding of politics
00:55when their newspapers came out every morning.
00:58As George Reid, our fourth PM,
01:00is said to have implored the pressmen in 1904...
01:03Praise me if you can. Blame me if you must.
01:05But for heaven's sake, don't leave me alone.
01:10But this cosy arrangement was upended in 1939 by a disruptor.
01:14Warren Denning, appointed by the ABC
01:16to be the gallery's first ever radio reporter.
01:20Good afternoon. This is the ABC from Parliament House Canberra.
01:23The gentlemen at the press gallery were furious.
01:26Denning would be able to broadcast breaking news straight away,
01:29scooping the newspaper hacks,
01:31who were slowed down by the laborious process
01:33of typesetting, printing and delivering newspapers.
01:36The pressmen revolted,
01:38demanding that Prime Minister Robert Menzies do two briefings a day,
01:42one for all of them, one for Denning.
01:44I ought to begin by asking you whether the procedures
01:47that I've adopted in the past are satisfactory to you.
01:51And for six long weeks, Menzies obliged.
01:54Eventually, the pressmen twigged to the fact
01:56that they were handing their rival a daily exclusive with the PM
02:00and sheepishly dropped their demands.
02:02But the episode shows you how powerful the gallery was,
02:06how protective of its patch and keen to guard its exclusivity,
02:10and how anxious a PM was not to antagonise these men,
02:14his primary means of getting his words and plans
02:17out to the Australian people.
02:19It's pointless having a discussion about Australian democracy.
02:48without considering how Australians find out about it.
02:52And there's no doubt that for much of our history,
02:55reporting politics has been a closed shop,
02:59full of complicated and, at times,
03:02mutually parasitic relationships.
03:05Like so many powerful elements of our democracy,
03:09this dynamic isn't covered by our Constitution,
03:13and neither is the major technological upheaval
03:18that, over the course of this young century,
03:21has blown up so many of the presumptions
03:24on which these relationships rested for so long.
03:28Everything's moving so fast
03:31that there's barely a second to take stock
03:34of just how much it's all changed.
03:39Can you start by just describing
03:41what the daily cycle of political journalism
03:44was like when you started out?
03:46There was a discernible news cycle.
03:48It began in the morning
03:49when the newspaper thumped onto the front lawn.
03:52If a political leader wanted to get a message out,
03:54they very much might put the story in the Daily Telegraph
03:58or put the story in the Australian newspaper.
04:01You opened it up, you unfurled it,
04:03you saw what the story was above the fold,
04:05what was important to that day.
04:07You still had, I think, a landscape
04:09you could describe as having centres of gravity.
04:12There were different outlets
04:15that were influential in slightly different ways,
04:18but there was a national conversation.
04:20Even if people had different political perspectives,
04:22everyone was sort of eating at the same table.
04:25So what does the political news cycle
04:27look like these days?
04:28And how does that affect the press gallery's role?
04:31The operating environment is so fractured now,
04:33and the idea of what constitutes political news
04:38is the constant refreshment of the story of the day.
04:42Everyone talks about the 24-hour media cycle.
04:45It's not even 24 hours, it's just now.
04:48Well, I certainly think that the 24-7 media cycle
04:52and the rise of social media
04:55coarsened our public discourse.
04:58I mean, you have a look at TalkBack.
04:59TalkBack gave the average person the chance
05:02to get on the air and say what they think.
05:05Now everyone's able to do that through a million different apps.
05:07Each individual now can curate for themselves their intake.
05:12And what that means is that no-one's curation
05:15will be the same as someone else's.
05:17It's made it harder and harder for clear, rational, principled voices to be heard.
05:24There's no such thing as the audience now.
05:26It's so fragmented.
05:28There are so many different audiences.
05:30Politicians have to use every available medium to get their message out.
05:36Issues that you might have thought would command the broad focus of the nation
05:42can't really do that in the same way.
05:45What is a journalist's primary aim?
05:51To present the facts of any given situation is as accurately and as responsible as he possibly can.
05:57To always remain an outsider. Never join the mob.
06:00It's a funny sort of relationship between pressmen and politicians.
06:03I suppose you'd say it's almost a classic example of the attraction repulsion of love-hate.
06:08Never distort news to please people, whether to boss all the readers, all the listeners.
06:15The zookeepers rule is if you work in a zoo, don't try to be friendly with the animals.
06:20It's a tricky rule to follow when the zookeepers and animals mingle so freely together.
06:27Australia is the only Western democracy in which the press cohort has always shared quarters with MPs.
06:35Okay, so Nikki, you arrived in this chamber in 1974, yes?
06:39Mm-hmm.
06:40You weren't sitting here, obviously.
06:41Definitely not.
06:42It's such a squeezy little chamber, isn't it? And the press gallery is tiny.
06:48Well, it didn't seem so to me at the time and it was filled almost every day.
06:55So Parliament was the centre of the universe, if you like.
07:00And what was the press gallery like when you arrived?
07:03It was still mostly male.
07:06There were only six women journalists in the press gallery and I was probably the youngest
07:13and there were very few ethnics around at that time.
07:18How did it work?
07:19Because it was quite a closed shop back then, right?
07:22You had to have an office in the building if you were going to be a political correspondent.
07:27But because this is such a small place, there was nowhere for the politicians to hide.
07:34So you got to build up relationships and you mixed so often and so freely.
07:43You could just go down to the Prime Minister's office and say, I've got this story that's
07:48going to kill you.
07:49What do you say about it?
07:50In that era, what did politicians and journalists or media organisations rely on each other for?
07:59Well, one could not survive without the other.
08:03They needed us as much as we needed them.
08:06If they wanted to get their stories out, they had to deal with us and we needed stories.
08:13If a Prime Minister or a Minister wants to get a story out, they'll make sure it has exclusivity.
08:19They'll give it to a particular journalist in a particular newspaper or a particular television
08:25station or a particular radio station for a particular reason.
08:28They know it will start a cycle, the news cycle, and that people will necessarily talk
08:32about it through the day.
08:33I think politicians use radio hosts and radio hosts use politicians.
08:38It's a very equal kind of relationship in that regard.
08:42Tony Abbott has come on my show many times to talk about things that Tony Abbott wants
08:45to talk about.
08:46So the cold drop comes to you without much work done at all.
08:50You can sit back with hands behind the head and try, there's a good story, and then smash
08:55it out and away it goes.
08:57But equally there have been times when Tony Abbott doesn't want to talk about something
09:01and I've used that association to force him to talk about it.
09:04The better way is getting the story they don't want out.
09:07That's the good story.
09:09Let's not overlook that quid pro quos could go on.
09:14And the problem when the quid pro quo involves information and the releasing of information
09:19is you open the door really to political manipulation.
09:22I'll give you this, you'll bury that.
09:24Well gentlemen of the press, I understand you have a predilection for press conferences
09:29and now for the next 30 minutes I'm in your hands while we have one.
09:33Like any high stakes codependent relationship, this one can pan out in a variety of ways.
09:40Sometimes, careful negotiation yields a mutually beneficial outcome.
09:45How long is it there for?
09:46Oh, two or three minutes of the quid pro quo.
09:48And all.
09:49But look, we will be doing the something on the dam for God's sake.
09:54Yes, yes, certainly.
09:55It is.
09:56Sometimes, there's a period of no speakies.
09:59Laurie, I actually need to work turn Prime Minister.
10:01I'm tempted to ask the same question again for the third time because we still haven't
10:04got an answer.
10:05Clearly, there is a capacity for a political leader, particularly, you know, a Prime Minister
10:11or an opposition leader to ice a journalist, right?
10:15Just put them on ice.
10:16They get nothing.
10:18And sometimes, there's no option but open combat.
10:22Mr Hawke, could I ask you whether you feel a little embarrassed tonight at the blood that's
10:26on your hands?
10:27It's a ridiculous question.
10:28You know, it's ridiculous.
10:29I have no blood on my hands.
10:31Politics is a combative business and obviously, if you're a journalist, sometimes you have to
10:37ask tricky questions and sometimes that can really get under politicians' skins.
10:42Now, sometimes it's justified, you know, maybe sometimes it's not justified.
10:46But, you know, there is nothing more fascinating in finding out what actually makes a politician
10:52completely fly off the handle.
10:54Bullshit comes from the press gallery.
10:57Do you have any favourite kind of journo v politician moments?
11:03Look, I did very much enjoy the Mark Riley, Tony Abbott stare off.
11:08That was absolutely sensational.
11:11Mark Riley wanted to talk about my visit, my recent visit to Afghanistan.
11:17Hello.
11:18G'day Tony.
11:19And he wanted to create a gotcha moment.
11:21It's over here, Tony's next to me.
11:24There was no ambush.
11:26I had Tony's press secretary in my office at 20 minutes showing them the vision.
11:30He was being told about an operation that went horribly wrong and cost the life of an Australian soldier.
11:39The commander was explaining where things had gone wrong.
11:42And this was Tony Abbott's response.
11:45Shit Abbott.
11:47Now, what Mark Riley tried to do was to take out of context that expression shit happens and present me as somehow making light of the death of Lance Corporal Jared McKinney.
12:03Honestly, it was a contemptible thing to do.
12:06Imagine if Julia Gillard had said that.
12:08This is what I thought.
12:09Imagine if Kevin Rudd had said that.
12:11It took me quite a while to work out exactly what he was driving at.
12:15Well, that's about the day that Jared McKinney was killed.
12:23My question to Tony was, well, that was it.
12:26Yeah, look, you've taken this out of context.
12:29You weren't there.
12:30I would never seek to make light of the death of an Australian soldier.
12:35Well, tell me, what's the context and if it's out of context, what is the context?
12:45You're not saying anything, Tony.
12:48I was just bemused.
12:50I mean, I think you can see it in my face.
12:52You've arranged the time for this interview.
12:54You know what I was going to ask you about and you don't have any response.
12:57And I thought, what do I do here?
12:59What the hell?
13:00Is he going to thump you?
13:01I tell him to get stuffed.
13:03I get up and walk out.
13:05I hit him.
13:06I just thought he was buffering.
13:08Tony was thinking of punching him.
13:10He was thinking of punching Mark Riley.
13:13Slog him in the head.
13:15And all he could think was, don't punch him.
13:19So if you're wondering what was going on in Tony Abbott's head,
13:22I mean to tell you, that's what he was thinking about.
13:24So I thought silence was the best response.
13:27Closed mouth gathers no foot.
13:30Nothing else to say, Tony.
13:33OK.
13:36Just turn the cameras off.
13:40Now you know.
13:42That's a scoop for you.
13:43I don't think our relationship was ever quite the same after that.
13:47At the end of the day, look, if you're going to give it, you're going to get it.
13:52And if you're going to give it, you can't be upset about occasionally getting it back.
13:56And if you are that sort of person, well, you're not in the right place, Toto.
14:01Sometimes the tension between politicians and political journalists arises from their mutual conviction that they could do each other's job better.
14:10Lose wire.
14:11And there is, in Australia's early history, one utterly spectacular example of this exact phenomenon.
14:18For the first 13 years of the Australian Federation, readers of the Morning Post in London enjoyed a spicy anonymous weekly column summarising the events of the Antipodean Parliament.
14:30Given that the nation splashed through ten prime ministerships in that time, it was action packed.
14:37The writer was coyly badged as our own correspondent, but was incredibly well informed and articulate and could be harsh.
14:45Mr Deakin may well view the position before him with rueful solicitude.
14:49Harumphed the correspondent in 1903, after Prime Minister Alfred Deakin came perilously close to losing the federal election of that year.
14:59His own party in his own state, in spite of his appeals, flung away half a dozen seats and imperiled as many more.
15:07Ouch.
15:08Poor old Deakin.
15:09He must have flinched to read such words.
15:12Actually, he probably didn't.
15:14Because in fact, Deakin wrote those words.
15:17That's right.
15:18In Australia, our own correspondent was better known as our second Prime Minister, Alfred Deakin.
15:26Lawyer, vegan, seance fanatic, moonlighting as a commentator on his own parliament for the handsome salary of £500 a year.
15:36More than he was paid as Prime Minister.
15:39Mr Prime Minister, could you elaborate on what Mr Berry has said?
15:43For all of the accusations over the years of political journalists and Prime Ministers being in each other's pockets,
15:50this is the only case where it's because they're the same person.
15:56But in 2025, political journalism is facing a more profound disruption than the odd Prime Minister in disguise.
16:04Cheers, Prime Minister, for coming to the pub.
16:07Welcome to It's A Lot Podcast, Prime Minister.
16:09Great to be here, Abby.
16:11People listen to my podcast, for example, I do maths recaps, I do blowjob tips, I interview the Prime Minister.
16:18You know, it's a spectrum.
16:19Politicians these days realise that now, to get in front of people, particularly the people who aren't already politically engaged,
16:26the ones you've got to win over, if you want to win an election, you need to go to them.
16:30This budget is all about helping with the cost of living, strengthening Medicare and building Australia's future.
16:36We're legit pulling up a parliament house and we have no idea what we're getting ourselves into today.
16:42For the first time, influencers were invited to this year's budget.
16:45So I was invited to the budget lock-up as an influencer, as a podcaster.
16:50I didn't go because my theory was I can read it on the internet, why would I go there?
16:56I'm not driving at Canberra. I have things to do.
16:59Yes, that's what we need more of in hard-nosed budget analysis is social media influencers.
17:05Today I am interviewing the Prime Minister and so we will get ready together.
17:08Many of these creators don't necessarily come from traditional journalistic backgrounds
17:12and so people have criticised them for not applying scrutiny to what the government is necessarily putting out.
17:18You know, people might derisively call them cheerleaders.
17:21The Labor Party just announced $1 billion for mental health.
17:25What's the problem having people there that maybe you don't see as qualified,
17:29but they have the ability to translate their budget into terms that people can understand
17:34I mean, what is an influencer going to do in the lock-up?
17:38What, pour through the impairment on assets on government warships? I don't know.
17:44It feels quite elitist to be so in shock and horrified that influencers would be allowed anywhere near Parliament House
17:53as though influencers aren't citizens of this country.
17:56There are always going to be things that political journalists know more about
18:01in terms of getting information or fact-checking or things like that,
18:05but it doesn't bother me in the slightest.
18:10It's not that. It's that the vocation is different.
18:14It's that the task is different.
18:17I know that there were some people, probably mainstream media people,
18:20who were like, this is our domain.
18:23No, it's not yours. You don't own it. We live in a democracy.
18:27And influencers have become players in that political game.
18:33Politicians have fanned out across social media platforms
18:37in search of voters who aren't looking for them.
18:40On YouTube, the most watched election interview with Anthony Albanese
18:45was one he sought out with cult video artist Aussie Man Reviews.
18:50Good shit. Thank you, Albo. Thanks, mate.
18:52It is a fundamentally different thing to sit down for an interview on 7.30
18:58and be interrogated in that way
19:01than it is to sit down with someone who is cheerleading
19:05for a particular side of politics or a particular party or a particular outcome.
19:09When you start to blur those things, that's a net loss for democracy.
19:15And we have started seeing that in America.
19:38In America, the disruption of the press corps is more explicitly orchestrated.
19:45For more than a century, the pecking order of journalists
19:48in the world-famous White House briefing room
19:51has been managed by the White House Correspondents Association.
19:56But President Trump, in his second term, has asserted control.
20:01He banned the veteran Associated Press Organisation
20:04because it refused to rebrand the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America,
20:09as per the presidential decree.
20:12We are going to be changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico
20:16to the Gulf of America.
20:19He's also opened up the press room to influencers
20:22and partisan campaign groups
20:24who now jostle for access with legacy media outlets.
20:30Here's where all of the anchors are going to air.
20:33Yep, we've got your Fox News here.
20:35Uh-huh.
20:36CNN has two tenths.
20:38Yeah, you've got your ABC, your Newsmax, your NBC.
20:40Monica Paige Baldwin is the White House Correspondent
20:43for the pro-Trump youth activist group Turning Point USA.
20:49From the White House, four front lines with Turning Point,
20:51I'm Monica Paige.
20:52Which has been credited with boosting Donald Trump's youth vote
20:55at the 2024 election by as much as 10%.
21:01So, welcome to Pebble Beach.
21:03Pebble Beach.
21:04Is that what it's called?
21:05Yes.
21:06I believe there were pebbles at one point,
21:07but now I don't think that there's any pebbles here.
21:09It's all just mulch.
21:10But yeah, this is where everyone works out of.
21:11You're working in the heat, the freezing cold,
21:14rainstorms, thunderstorms, lightning, you name it,
21:17you're working out of these tents for the most part.
21:19But yeah, this is the West Wing of the White House sort of deal.
21:22So how did Turning Point come to have a spot
21:25in the White House media corp?
21:27So you have your CNN, your Fox, your MSNBC,
21:29they're all in there,
21:30but there was never a spot for new media.
21:32And now with this current administration,
21:34they've kind of said we're going to add a new media spot
21:36in the press briefing room,
21:38and we recently got access to be in that new media section,
21:41which has been incredible.
21:42Part of the new media seed is so that everyday Americans
21:45across the country have a voice in this room.
21:47Is it hostile in there when all of these new media Arabists
21:51turn up and start demanding space?
21:54Yeah, so the dynamic is okay.
21:57You can kind of feel a little bit of tension in there,
21:59especially within the first couple of press briefings
22:02when this administration returned.
22:03Monica.
22:05So what are some of the other new media organizations
22:08that have got a place here now at the White House
22:11that didn't have five years ago?
22:13There's a number of people with podcasts or radio shows
22:17or streaming outlets.
22:19You've got your Lindell TV, which is Mike Lindell of MyPillow.
22:23Oh, that's the pillow guy.
22:24I'm bringing you exciting new products,
22:26overstock specials, and closeout deals
22:29you won't find anywhere else.
22:31Got his own TV crew here and reporters here.
22:33Right.
22:34But we have a president right now who I truly believe
22:36is doing his best to unify the country
22:38and make sure that everybody has a voice.
22:41But see, you sound like a campaigner now.
22:43I saw yesterday when you were delivering questions
22:46to President Trump.
22:47He's so I love that question.
22:49On the southern border,
22:50you've had record low numbers for the month of May.
22:52What do you attribute that success to?
22:54I like you.
22:55Who are you with?
22:56Turning Point USA, sir.
22:57Well, they're very good.
22:58Turning Point.
22:59The journalist in me goes,
23:00oh, my God, that's a disaster,
23:02because I don't want a politician ever
23:04to love a question that I ask them.
23:06So how does that work as a journalist for you?
23:09I mean, of course, with every administration,
23:10there's something that I will disagree on,
23:12including this one.
23:13So it's not like I'm just reporting
23:14on all the glorious things that are happening.
23:16I think it is important to acknowledge
23:18what people find negative in this administration
23:20and still giving light to that as much as I am
23:22giving some of the positive.
23:24So when you looked at, as an outsider,
23:27the press corps as it functioned
23:29under the previous administration,
23:31did you think of it as a neutral kind of body of people?
23:36Well, yes and no,
23:38because there were a lot of times
23:40when I was in the press briefing room
23:42and some of the questions that the reporters would ask
23:44would be very, I don't know,
23:46not really in tune with what everyday Americans are feeling.
23:49And it was kind of disheartening to hear questions,
23:52what's Joe Biden's favourite ice cream flavour?
23:54What's he doing this weekend?
23:55So it makes you furious to listen to left-wing journalists
23:59ask about President Biden's taste in ice cream,
24:02and then you get criticised for asking soft questions
24:05or inviting Donald Trump to reflect on his own brilliance.
24:09I mean, is this just...
24:10It's the name of the game.
24:11Right? So...
24:12It seems like that's the name of the game.
24:14People are just...
24:15They listen to a question or listen to a report
24:17and they immediately place somebody in a box.
24:19They're like, OK, that sounds like a more left-wing question.
24:22You are left-wing media,
24:23I'm not going to consume your information or your media.
24:25OK, you're more right-wing.
24:26Nope, I'm not going to listen to that.
24:27And to me, I'm like, will there ever be a moment that can unify us
24:30not only as a nation but also in the media?
24:33Ten weeks later,
24:35the argument about who gets to ask questions where
24:38is overtaken by a ghastly act of political violence.
24:43Monica's boss, Charlie Kirk,
24:46is shot dead while speaking at a university in Utah.
24:50Charlie Kirk has been credited with mobilising young people
24:53to vote for Donald Trump in the 2024 election.
24:56We are the media now.
24:58Not them.
25:00Their power is fading and waning.
25:03No-one reads their stuff.
25:04Their subscriptions are going down.
25:06In a split second,
25:08the 31-year-old father of two
25:11goes from online disruptor
25:13to conservative martyr.
25:15Kirk's death is a violent escalation
25:18of polarisation in America
25:20where the political extremes
25:22don't just disagree with each other.
25:24They don't even gather in the same places.
25:28When social media started,
25:29it felt like it was going to be the democratisation of news
25:32and it was going to be these sort of, in a sense,
25:34online town halls that we could debate things.
25:36We think the new landscape is a billion tweets
25:40and it's the democratisation of politics
25:43or the democratisation of the public square.
25:45But now we're beginning to get savvy to the fact
25:49that there are algorithms and all sorts of things
25:52and a lot of what gets out
25:53and a lot of what gets shared
25:54and all this sort of stuff is manipulated.
25:57They're not neutral town halls.
25:59They are profit-driven ecosystems
26:01to make a lot of money for the people who own them
26:04and they know that the way to make the most money
26:06is to get people engaged and outraged.
26:11If you looked at a busload of people,
26:13everyone on their phones,
26:14scrolling through the same platform,
26:16they'd all be seeing completely different things.
26:18They funnel.
26:20So we are being funneled into biases.
26:24These silos are bias.
26:26Both sides think the other is more extreme
26:29than it actually is
26:30because they're only hearing from the most extreme on both sides.
26:34There are people who their whole world is shaped
26:40by what the algorithm is serving them.
26:43The more content they can put in front of people,
26:45that gets them angry,
26:47the more money they make
26:49because the more people engage with it,
26:51the more they can charge advertisers to be there.
26:54And what that does is it distorts the public discourse.
26:57What has the disruption of reporting around politics in particular
27:03done to your ability to project and win political arguments?
27:10It's made change harder.
27:13And it's made constructing the case for change harder.
27:18And it's made bringing people together harder.
27:23Because the nature of the fragmentation of the media
27:29and what we've seen in terms of different channels of discussion
27:38means that we often, as a society,
27:43are not actually talking to one another
27:46and we're certainly insufficiently listening to one another.
27:49If you feel like everyone's a little bit angrier today,
27:52it's because they legitimately are.
27:55The temptation is to go for highly charged issues,
27:59particularly in a country like the United States
28:02where religion plays a big role,
28:04things that people feel deeply and passionately about
28:06and will get them to the ballot box.
28:08I think one thing in Australia that is so important
28:13is compulsory voting.
28:15So in America, where that kind of new media works particularly well
28:20is when you have to get people out to vote.
28:23If you can get your whole base out to vote, you win.
28:25And the way to get people out to vote
28:27is to get them really, really mad.
28:29Could you explain what effect you think compulsory voting has
28:33on the tenor of political debate?
28:36I think it encourages more likely the forces of moderation
28:40and therefore consensus building
28:42within the democracy writ large.
28:44It disadvantages the zealots.
28:46It means that elections are not won or lost at the extremes
28:49but are won or lost in the centre.
28:51I'll tell you what, I've got friends from all walks of life.
28:54Some of them have got no interest in politics whatsoever
28:59and that is their right.
29:01Do we really want them to vote?
29:03Really?
29:04And again, I'm not 100% sold on my view on this
29:07because I understand that there is an advantage
29:10in getting everyone in there
29:11and I've got American friends who say,
29:13I wish it was the way in our country like it is in yours
29:16but I don't know.
29:17I guess it's not a perfect system.
29:19Nothing is.
29:20I've sort of come to the conclusion
29:22that we are saved in this country
29:26by the politically disengaged,
29:28who are forced to engage at moments.
29:32Globally, compulsory voting is rare
29:35and our adventures with it began in Queensland,
29:37which in 1915 staged the first election
29:41in the English-speaking world
29:43at which voter attendance was mandatory.
29:46A bold democratic experiment?
29:48No, think more desperate self-preservation tactic
29:52by a man who was in mortal fear of losing power.
29:55Now, you're in the way.
29:56Come on.
29:57That man was Liberal Queensland Premier Digby Denham.
30:01Businessman, butter entrepreneur,
30:04scourge of the union movement.
30:06As the state election approached, Denham had issues.
30:10He was deeply worried about the mobilisation power
30:13of the Queensland trade union movement.
30:16Brisbane was paralysed by striking workers
30:19and Denham tried everything to break the unions.
30:22He banned protests, armed police with bayonets
30:26and even tried to borrow troops
30:28from a visiting German warship to help him out.
30:31None of it worked, so he came up with a new plan.
30:34A cunning one.
30:36He made voting compulsory.
30:39If the more moderately inclined were forced to vote,
30:42Denham figured, he might stand a chance.
30:45The good news? Turnout was strong, nearly 90%.
30:50The bad news?
30:52Denham got smashed.
30:54Not only were the parliamentary ranks of his party halved,
30:57but the Premier lost his own seat
31:00and there wouldn't be another Liberal government for 42 years.
31:04The great thing about, you know, cunning plans in Australian politics
31:10when political leaders go,
31:11ha-ha, I have a cunning plan like Digby Denham
31:14is that they often end up as an exploding cigar.
31:17Denham's gambit didn't work out as planned.
31:20But the system stayed put
31:22and in 1924 compulsory voting was adopted nationally.
31:28Ever since then, Australian politicians
31:31have had a very particular obligation
31:33to pursue and convince every single voter,
31:37even the ones who aren't interested.
31:39It's triggered a constant cycle of disruption.
31:43Right, OK.
31:44Every time a new form of media emerges,
31:47politicians are obliged to learn how to use it.
31:52A century ago, it was all about the ability to yell at crowds
31:55whilst balanced on a stump or the back of a truck.
31:58Mr Hawkins is the one to represent you.
32:00He is fit to represent you in every possible way.
32:03People attended in mass numbers public meetings.
32:06So if you look back, say, at Andrew Fisher, Prime Minister,
32:10on three occasions,
32:11when he went to a town like Gympie to campaign,
32:14you'd have mass crowds of more than 10,000 people.
32:18I don't think anyone would have been at home.
32:20Everyone went.
32:21So once parliament was being reported on,
32:24the incentives for the people in the business of politics
32:27to deliver a terrific speech
32:30that could be read in a newspaper
32:33and could be re-read and re-quoted
32:36becomes part of the language of politics,
32:38part of the presentation of politics,
32:40part of the representation of politics.
32:44Once you hear the voice, which is radio,
32:48you get almost a different idea of politics
32:52from the elector's perspective as well.
32:54My opponents in parliament have done their very best
32:59and only narrowly failed.
33:01So RG Menzies, good radio voice, Ben Cheffley, old-style Labor bloke,
33:07looks terrific on the stump,
33:09is really, really good in a smoke-filled caucus room,
33:12but does not persuade you on radio.
33:15Hello, citizens.
33:17The war is over.
33:19Then along comes television.
33:21By the time you get to Gough,
33:22he's kind of got a bit of the Menzies in him
33:24because he's obviously been raised in that era
33:26and he could also preen for the camera.
33:28We see the allegation that Bill Hayden
33:31had stolen some treasury documents.
33:33Like Graham Kennedy in a way, you know, grew up on the stage
33:39and as soon as they pointed a camera at him,
33:41everything worked at the same time.
33:43And then you've got Bob Hawke watching,
33:45Whitlam from the sidelines saying,
33:46I can make the camera work for me.
33:48For generations,
33:50even as the technology gently evolved
33:52from notebooks to microphones to cameras...
33:55Smile.
33:56Have you got your photograph?
33:57Australian elections were fought in essentially the same way.
34:01One aspiring Prime Minister from the Labor Party,
34:04one from the Liberal Party,
34:06both pitching their visions to the nation
34:08via an accompanying rabble of print,
34:11radio and TV reporters,
34:14themselves employed by media proprietors
34:17whose canny decision to purchase
34:19vast, clanking printing presses
34:21or broadcast TV networks
34:23harvested them not only handsome profits
34:26but intense political power.
34:29Could you compare the old style of media mogul,
34:33you know, your Murdochs and Packers
34:35with the tech super moguls of today?
34:38Look, I think the moguls of the past in the media,
34:41whether it was, you know, Rupert Murdoch or Kerry Packer,
34:44or, you know, they had a big influence
34:46on Australian media and Australian politics
34:48and obviously Murdoch still does,
34:50but they don't have the influence they used to have.
34:53They still have influence.
34:54They can certainly help shape the agenda.
34:56They can certainly shape how people see what's happening today.
35:00But I think the moguls of, you know,
35:03the Elon Musk and Twitter, for example,
35:06are really quite a different and I think more alarming beast.
35:12So what you have is everyone pursuing a prophet,
35:15concentrations of power in the hands of relatively few people.
35:19One at least is held accountable to some extent by an ethic,
35:25by a code.
35:26The other thumbs its nodes at all codes
35:30and doesn't really have one to begin with.
35:33If you just look at the dais for Trump's inauguration,
35:38it was the masters of the attentional universe, right,
35:42sitting on the dais.
35:43It was Sundar Pichai of Google.
35:45It was Zuckerberg.
35:47You know, it was Bezos.
35:48It was Musk.
35:49And Trump understands that these platforms control
35:53and shape what people think.
35:56So it's a mutually beneficial relationship.
35:59The only ethic, the only ethos that guides this really, it seems,
36:05is whatever services the profit motive.
36:08The net result for Australia?
36:10After a century of awkward codependence
36:13between politicians and political journalists,
36:16both now gamble for wins and losses
36:18with moguls they struggle to regulate
36:21according to algorithms they cannot see.
36:24I now don't have to have a conversation
36:28with a senior journalist.
36:30I have my own social media platforms
36:32and say what I need to say, whack it up online
36:35and the community knows instantly that it's happened
36:38and we're in a conversation.
36:40Well, a classic example is this.
36:43In my last media piece,
36:46Facebook has 280,000 views.
36:49There's another one, if I go back, 800,000.
36:53Man, that beats a paper for dead.
36:57That beats ABC for dead.
37:00Man, that's gold.
37:01Gold.
37:02For the community independent movement,
37:04social media and social media platforms
37:07have been a really effective way of getting a message out
37:10and finding your community.
37:12And we're not reliant on legacy media
37:15to talk to our communities.
37:17For the two major parties,
37:19disruption means the advance of independence
37:22into parts of their empires they once took for granted.
37:26As an independent, I answer to you.
37:28Not to a party.
37:29We deserve better representation.
37:31The major parties have failed to deliver.
37:33And we need community independence
37:34standing up to vested interests
37:36and holding the major parties to account.
37:38Put one on Dai Li here
37:40and then number all the boxes.
37:42Political parties have two real tools
37:44when it comes to social media.
37:46The first one is the normal, organic posting,
37:48which is the versions of posting like any of us have.
37:50You know, you post an image of yourself doing something.
37:52Go back a bit.
37:59The other tool that they have is paid advertising.
38:02And this is where political parties are able to cash in
38:05on the huge amount of information
38:07that all the social media companies have on each of us.
38:10Versus...
38:11But the real revolution for political advertising in 2025
38:16isn't in the message or execution.
38:19It's in the targeting.
38:22We saw the Australian political parties
38:24use political advertising on social media more than ever before
38:28because you can incredibly target individual voters
38:32based on things like demographics,
38:34your occupation, even your interests.
38:37Because they think that they can reach you at the right time
38:41with the right message to win your vote.
38:43If you're watching your Married at First Sight,
38:45you know, online now,
38:47you're watching it in a local sort of...
38:50It's fed to you locally,
38:52so it means that you can target by postcode.
38:55You can target by electorate
38:57and you can pay a lot less than you used to.
39:01A political campaign can create an ad and say,
39:05OK, I want to reach women ages 25 to 35
39:08who live in Sydney and have these characteristics.
39:11And then Facebook, using the data that it has in people,
39:14will then show that ad to those people
39:16with those characteristics.
39:18So, in this hectic new world
39:21where anyone can be a political reporter
39:24and political parties can swarm your device with cheap ads...
39:28Kind one.
39:29..what are the rules?
39:30You can kiss goodbye to the dream of homeownership.
39:32In this wild west of information,
39:35is there a sheriff to be seen?
39:39With five weeks to go before the election,
39:41Electoral Commissioner Geoff is requested by a Senate committee
39:45to look into the curious case
39:48of the People versus Abbey Chatfield.
39:51There's a new element of electoral matter
39:54and I just want to understand how the AEC is engaging it.
39:57And that's through influencers and collaborators.
40:00This is something that we haven't really seen before this election.
40:03For example, I know that the Prime Minister
40:05put up three separate collaborative reels on Instagram
40:08with Abbey Chatfield,
40:09where they both explicitly promoted the Labor Party
40:12and opposed the Liberal Party.
40:14So, electoral matter.
40:16Geoff Pope is very used to being asked by senators
40:20to look into stuff.
40:21We'll have a look at the ones you've highlighted
40:23and we'll consider if there's anything
40:26that we might need to adjust.
40:27We'll have a think about that.
40:29Abbey Chatfield, podcaster of maths recaps,
40:32intimate coaching and the odd Prime Ministerial interview,
40:35is very much not used to being investigated by the AEC.
40:41There was an accusation from Jane Hume that I was being a little bit,
40:47you know, secretive or I'd broken a rule of some kind.
40:51I was being a little bit duplicitous maybe.
40:54Because there's another element to it too.
40:56Obviously, there are some influences that are potentially being paid
41:02to produce political social media.
41:05And if I was paid, then I needed to put an authorisation
41:09from the Labor Party or from the Greens Party.
41:11That little thing at the end of an ad that's like,
41:13authorised by the Australian government camera.
41:15One of those things.
41:16And listen, I would have loved to have been paid by the Labor Party.
41:19I would have loved to have been paid by the Greens Party.
41:21What are you talking about?
41:22I would have declared that.
41:23But I wasn't.
41:24I wasn't in their budget.
41:25And then there was an official investigation, I think they called it,
41:29and that was just so stressful.
41:32I mean, there's a two-part test as to whether political advertising needs to be authorised.
41:37Stressful as all hell.
41:40The first part is actually whether the communication has the dominant purpose
41:45of influencing how a person is going to cast their vote.
41:48And the media made out all day, like if I had done something wrong
41:51and it was found to be wrong by the AEC,
41:53that I would be fucking clink clink, fucking 20 years in prison,
41:55lose my account, $100,000 fine.
41:57Like, they made out like it was some huge big deal, right?
42:00And it was going to ruin my life, and oh my God, she's being investigated!
42:03Being investigated!
42:04And the second part test is, is it paid political advertising
42:09or is it being distributed by or on behalf of a disclosure entity,
42:16which in this case would be the Prime Minister or the Labor Party?
42:19The amount of media coverage on this was as though
42:23I had been caught on CCTV murdering someone.
42:27So when you look at that two-part test,
42:30we didn't see that what was in that podcast
42:33met the threshold of that two-part test.
42:36And then it turns out that the AEC,
42:40even if I had been found guilty, which I wasn't,
42:42I was found innocent, okay,
42:44then all they would do is tell me to not do it again.
42:48Is it journalism or an ad?
42:51If it's a paid ad, it needs to bear an authorisation.
42:55Those garbled postscripts that have kept Australia's small
42:59but distinguished industry of high-speed voiceover artists
43:02in work since time immemorial.
43:04Can you explain the level of control that you have over the truth
43:17or otherwise of campaign advertising?
43:19Well, when it comes to campaign advertising
43:21and political advertising,
43:22parties and candidates can say whatever they want
43:25and we have no regulatory authority with respect to that.
43:30The parliament's growing band of independents and third parties
43:33are pushing for truth in political advertising laws
43:37to give the AEC more powers.
43:40When you're buying a product or a service,
43:42we have consumer laws that protect us
43:44so that we don't get scammed out of our money
43:47to make sure that what we buy is actually fit for purpose.
43:50But when it comes to our voting rights,
43:52we have no such protection.
43:54So basically advertising in the political context
43:57can be misleading, it can be deceptive.
44:00Who's deciding what's true?
44:02The Liberals would say,
44:03Oh, Liberals are better money managers than Labor.
44:05And Labor would say,
44:06Actually, you have left us with a trillion dollars of debt
44:08and nothing to show for it.
44:09So you could make arguments on both those things
44:12and you should be able to.
44:14So who's going to decide whether one of those is true or not?
44:18This is my concern.
44:19Coalition voters, Labor voters, Greens, One Nation,
44:22all overwhelmingly support truth in political advertising
44:25and I keep pushing, knocking on the door for the government to do it.
44:29Would some sort of truth in political advertising laws
44:32make things easier for the AEC?
44:34No.
44:36Seems very definite. Why not?
44:40We're not the truth police.
44:42And I don't think we should be.
44:44If the AEC was given that responsibility,
44:46my view is it would ruin the AEC's reputation for neutrality.
44:51And our impartiality is just so critical.
44:54We need to preserve that at all costs.
44:57It's up to the voter, and it always has been, and it always will be,
45:02up to the voter to navigate their way through what they're seeing
45:06and hearing and to make up their own mind.
45:09At last, we find our way to the Australian voter.
45:15Around 18 million of us, obliged by law to take a ballot paper each election,
45:21free to complete or deface it as we see fit.
45:24Five-week federal election campaign is about to reach its climax.
45:29There are not many places in the world where you see what we see on our election day.
45:34Australians turning up to cast their vote or write on the ballot paper
45:38that they don't like any of us, which is their democratic right,
45:40expressing different political views but doing so peacefully and respectfully.
45:45We should be really proud of that.
45:47Of all the entities that the wholesale upheaval of the media universe
45:52has disrupted this century,
45:54perhaps the least charted are the human building blocks of our democracy.
45:59You and how you cast your vote.
46:03And so the counting begins.
46:06Given we all got different values, different opinions,
46:10it's always been that way, always will be that way.
46:12But underpinning all of that, there should be a common factual basis.
46:16The AEC has started what will be a long night for them.
46:19Fragmented, scattered, stripped of old certainties,
46:23we're voting in a way that's transforming our parliament.
46:27The social media revolution,
46:29and the fact there's no longer a common platform for discourse,
46:32is slowly contributing to the fracturing of the vote.
46:36The number of independents that have been returned to the crossbench,
46:39we've got Fowler, Curtin, Kuyong, McKellar, Goldstein, Wentworth,
46:43Indite, Warringah, Mayo, Clarke, and then we've got Bradfield.
46:47New technology, new ways to access information,
46:50has radically changed the way people look at how their political system is working.
46:55And with their votes, the people have spoken.
46:58Peter Dutton's lost his seat.
47:00The duopoly of the major parties is breaking down.
47:02The media concentration of the press gallery is being broken as well.
47:07This could be a big win for Labor.
47:11It is certainly a win.
47:14That beats ABC for dead.
47:18Mate, that's gold. Gold!
47:21So you don't need journalists anymore?
47:23No, I need journalists because if you don't have journalists,
47:26if you don't have the Fourth Estate, you haven't got a democracy.
47:30This is our question time.
47:33The things Australians think are normal really aren't.
47:37It could never happen in the Danish parliament.
47:39You don't argue with the speaker. Period.
47:42Dismantling the two-party system that's dominated our history.
47:46It would not at all surprise me if we end up in an environment
47:49of just perpetual minority governments.
47:51And a tiny community that changed the course of our nation.
47:55It was a fight. Fight for land rights.
47:58Next on Civic Duty.
Be the first to comment