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00:00Going by the very definition of the word clean in the phrase clean energy, which are the dirtiest
00:17countries in the world, the entire global north. You wanted to prove that Indians have something
00:25wrong in their DNA and wherever they go, they create filth and throw garbage and urinate
00:30on the roadside and spit everywhere and do this and do that. Yes, of course, we need not
00:37do that and all of that is indeed dirty. But when it comes to cleanliness, there are much
00:43worse ways of dirtying the planet, dirtying it to the extent of suffocating it, actually
00:51absolutely killing it, not only for ourselves, not only of homo sapiens, but of all species
00:57on the planet. How dirty is that? The biggest threat facing this planet today is climate change.
01:06Cleanliness in 2025 must have only one meaning, carbon. Carbon.
01:14My first question is, why is that we are not taught about basic cleanliness in our homes
01:26and in our schools? I observe that people over here, they put the dirt in the designated areas,
01:37but back home, they throw everywhere. However, both are same. Both are Indians over there,
01:42we have Indians and here, we are the same. So why is that?
01:48There is no, as far as I can see, there is no deep reason behind that. Thank you, please.
01:58As you rightly said, the person is the same. And if the person is the same, and has started
02:10behaving differently, then obviously the change is not coming from within, right? The person
02:16is the same, means the insides are the same. It's a matter of the environment. And when it's
02:26the environment that functions upon you. Words like understanding or light or realisation,
02:35or love or care, do not hold much relevance. It's not as if Indians over here or the general
02:48population over here is internally cleaner or more illuminated. And that's why you find external
02:57cleanliness. It's about the rules, regulations, the fear, the greed, the enforcement, the execution,
03:09the penalties, the incentives, the incentives, what you see around yourself and how it influences you.
03:18How it influences you. Which also means that if the person who is here happens to go back home, he probably
03:30might find his old habits returning over a matter of time. Because the person was anyway the same.
03:42The person was anyway the same. It's a thing about the time, the place, the situation and how the law
03:52operate there and how the whole environment there is. Now why is the environment different? Why is the general
04:04code of conduct different? Again the reason has to do with not something that is subtle or internal or heartly,
04:17but with factors that are very economic and material. When you are hungry and dispossessed,
04:34then you first want to take care of the more mundane needs of life. Right? Only after you have
04:46gained freedom from the fundamental, material, physical concerns of life, that you start looking at the
05:00higher aspects. Not that cleanliness is a very high aspect of the business of living, but it is still
05:09something that one does not primarily concern himself with if one is running on an empty stomach. Right?
05:21Consider this. There aren't too many developed or rich countries in the world. We'll keep the word developed aside. Rich countries in the world that you will find unclean.
05:37And there aren't too many poor countries in the world that you would find clean. So, I see this not just as a coincidence, but actually as a causation. You do not want to take care of other things when the mind is battling.
06:05Things like having a roof over the head and something to put on the table for dinner. Then you don't want to take care of these things.
06:21You take the argument further. Even within India, you do have places, societies, gated communities as clean as, probably as clean as anything you would find in the first world. No? You have places, small areas in Bangalore, Mumbai, Gurgaon.
06:49When you are there and if you are not told, it would be difficult for you to figure out whether you are in a developing country or in a first world country. In all aspects of living and prosperity, that place would rival not just Dubai, but Europe, US, any place.
07:14It's got to do with money. It's got to do with whether you have gained freedom from the very basic needs of life. The one that are at the bottom of the pyramid in the Maslowian hierarchy.
07:38You think it? Now one could go deeper into it and ask, well, why is it then that some places are richer and others are not? If cleanliness is a function of economic growth.
07:57Hmm? Not that economic growth is the one and only driver of cleanliness and public hygiene.
08:05But if there happens to be a great degree of causal relationship, then what is it that drives prosperity in the first place? That could be a question we could ask.
08:14And that question has several answers because what drives prosperity in Bangalore is not what drives it in Dubai.
08:23And what drives it in Switzerland is not what drives it in California.
08:29And all of these places would count as prosperous, but the causal factors are quite different.
08:39So our genes are not to be blamed for it.
08:45We keep saying, you know, Indians, filthy, dirty people, that thing. No, it's not about that. It's not about that.
08:55It's just that, have you seen, when you are very hungry, when you are very, very hungry, famished as they say, for whatever reason, happens.
09:10Or you have deliberately kept yourself hungry. Let's say you have been fasting since 16, 20 or 30 hours.
09:21How you rampage on food when it comes to you? At least some of us. And you have not done it yourself.
09:29Or you don't want to admit that you have done it yourself. Have you seen others do it? Yeah?
09:35It doesn't matter to you that you are spluttering it all over and what it's doing to your shirt and to your mouth, to your moustache, to your beard.
09:49Do you mind it? No.
09:53What happens to etiquette? What happens to hygiene?
09:58Out of the window, sir. I'm hungry. I'm hungry.
10:05See how kids behave? Because that's their most urgent need.
10:13See how they eat? That's how we are.
10:20If you are hungry, then you do not care about other things in life.
10:30Because we are, first of all, emergent from the jungle.
10:37A large part of us is animalistic.
10:42This body, the entirety of it, we share with our animal friends.
10:49When you serve something to your cat or dog in a bowl, does it take care not to spill it all over?
10:58It doesn't. That's who we are. Take care of your stomach and in the process, if you are creating mess all around, then there is no problem.
11:12Now, friends, allow me to come to that part of this question which has not been asked.
11:22When you said, where is the friend here?
11:25When you said you want to talk about cleanliness, what kind of cleanliness do you want to talk about?
11:31Just the cleanliness that is visible to the naked eye?
11:36Yeah, this is very clean, very clean, very clean.
11:40Or would you also want to talk about cleanliness that is not visible to the eye?
11:48Yes?
11:49Should we?
11:50Okay.
11:51Alright then.
11:52Fine.
11:53There is dirt and squalor in the third world, specifically India.
12:02Yes, that's there.
12:04So, when you say you are dirtying stuff, is it only about plastic?
12:11Is it only about general dirt and filth?
12:17Or is it also something, also about something called emissions?
12:24Yeah?
12:25Not really.
12:26Because places, if you see it's very interesting, places where you find a lot of material filth
12:35are typically not of the places that generate a lot of filth by way of emissions.
12:42Please see.
12:45You go to a poor village, you will find a lot of rubbish, garbage.
12:51But that place would have a very negligible carbon footprint.
12:56Am I right?
12:58And also consider that places that are very clean, swick and span.
13:04Very clean.
13:05The global north, the global north.
13:08And will have a very high carbon footprint.
13:13Now we are confused.
13:16What do we call as clean?
13:18What do we call as clean?
13:21Yes?
13:22If you have general filth on the road, is that unclean?
13:31Or if you are living in a society, in a place, in a country, in a city, that is generating horrible amounts of carbon emissions.
13:44Is that relatively more unclean?
13:47Yeah?
13:48Which of these two kinds of dirts can be cleaned up more easily, I am asking?
13:57Your question stands upended.
14:01What do we call as clean and what do we call as unclean?
14:06We are creatures of these senses, you know.
14:10Ya Nindriya.
14:12Hmm?
14:13So just because I cannot see something lying here, I say, I say, this is clean.
14:20Clean.
14:21Is it clean?
14:22Is it clean?
14:23Is it clean?
14:24Not clean.
14:25Yeah?
14:26Hmm?
14:27Hmm?
14:28Hmm?
14:30Hmm?
14:31Hmm.
14:32Huh?
14:33Hmm?
14:34Hmm?
14:35Huh?
14:36Shubhankar in our team has gone bonkers looking at the size of vehicles here.
14:41Hmm?
14:42Hmm?
14:43Hmm?
14:44and he's finding it very impressive. Huge vehicles. Do you look at the overall cost
15:02of that and when one place generates emissions, they do not remain contained within the national
15:12boundaries, do they? The atmosphere is not a place that honours any kind of national restrictions,
15:23does it? You can have cheap fuel, you can have a zero or minimum tax regime and that will
15:39incentivize people to buy new models every two or three years. So the vehicles will not
15:50only look bigger but also cleaner in the sense that not a single dent on any vehicle, not even
16:00on taxis. With a microscope you can look for a scratch and you won't find it. That too
16:14looks like an aspect of cleanliness, doesn't it? But at what cost? What cost? The biggest
16:23threat facing this planet today is climate change. Take an example, when you talk of clean energy,
16:36you do not talk of energy that is not associated with household waste. When you talk of clean
16:45energy, you talk of energy that doesn't generate CO2 and other kinds of greenhouse gases. If that's the
16:57more accurate, subtle and technologically agreeable definition of cleanliness, then tell me please,
17:05is the third world unclean or is the first world unclean? Tell me please. So which are the dirty
17:23countries of the world? No, I'm not standing here as an Indian nationalist but very realistically I'm
17:31asking you. Which are the dirtiest countries in the world? Going by the very definition of the word
17:41clean in the phrase clean energy, which are the dirtiest countries in the world? The entire global
17:49north, right? What do we do now? What happened to your question? We wanted to prove that Indians have
18:00something wrong in their DNA and wherever they go, they create filth and throw garbage and urinate on the
18:08roadside and spit everywhere and do this and do that. Yes, of course, we need not do that and all of
18:16that is indeed dirty. But when it comes to cleanliness, there are much worse ways of dirtying the planet,
18:25dirtying it to the extent of suffocating it, actually absolutely killing it not only for ourselves
18:33but for the future generations and future generations not only of homo sapiens but of all species on the
18:39planet. How dirty is that? How dirty is that? Yeah?
18:49So, cleanliness is the lack of cleanliness, which means and it's interesting to note that
19:00cleanliness or the lack of it that comes from just external conditions is in either case unclean.
19:09clean. If the lack of cleanliness, apparent cleanliness is coming from poverty, then obviously there is
19:23lack of cleanliness and you can see that it's visible. It's right there in front of a road,
19:28it's there at the town square, it's everywhere. Hospitals, you go and somebody's been spitting
19:34on the walls. You can see all that, right? And then there is the developed world,
19:43where no one is spitting on the world, on the walls and in fact, in places like Singapore,
19:49you are being actually effectively penalised if you are caught doing anything with public property,
19:55including roads. So, there is apparent cleanliness there, you can call it superficial cleanliness,
20:05but then they are dirty in a much deeper sense.
20:13So, then is cleanliness something to be found anywhere?
20:17Is it to be found anywhere? Well, of course, the Indian subcontinent and
20:28the entire underdeveloped, developing world, nobody would call it clean and neither do we need to.
20:37Let's accept the facts when they are visible to the naked eye. We can see,
20:40even when you go to watch the pristine hillsides, how we have dirtied them. That's visible. So,
20:48we are not here to claim that India or the developing world is a clean place. No, not at all. But then,
20:56if that is unclean, the developed world is dirtier, even more unclean. So, where will then cleanliness come from?
21:10Where will then cleanliness come from?
21:15External factors are not favourable. So, I created cleanliness of the gross kind.
21:25Matter lying strewn here and there, right? External factors are not favourable. I am a poor country.
21:32So, this and that is lying here and public services are in an abysmal state. So, visible.
21:38When I am developed, then I clean this up so that dirt is not visible, but I create filth of a much
21:48more vicious nature. Right? Right? Where is cleanliness then? Or is there no possibility at all?
21:57No possibility at all? You see, that's what we began with. If it's coming from outside,
22:07it's not going to be clean. It's going to be unclean when it appears unclean and it's going to be
22:13unclean when it appears clean. Irrespective of how it appears, it is going to be dirty.
22:20It appears unclean. It is obviously unclean. It appears clean. It is even more unclean.
22:28Whenever the behaviour of a people or a society or a nation would be determined by just external
22:36material factors alone, there is no scope of real cleanliness.
22:42Real cleanliness is possible only from the heart of the human being.
22:47When you are clean within, then you will know how to relate to your environment, to your surroundings,
22:57the road in front of your house, to all the public places, schools, hospitals, roads, shops,
23:06government institutions, buildings, airports, bus stations.
23:11You will know. But when you are not clean from here, and what is cleanliness over here?
23:22We clean over here is to be free of that which is not really you, which is coming from the body or the society.
23:31That inner cleanliness is the goal of all wisdom literature and all spiritual pursuit.
23:44Right? Not really attainment of something other worldly.
23:49Not really taking care of your next birth or pleasing some metaphysical divine entity sitting on the skies.
23:59No, that's not what wisdom or spirituality are for. They are to attain an inner cleanliness.
24:06Inner cleanliness.
24:10And when that inner cleanliness is attained,
24:12something very beautiful happens. So beautiful it is not predictable.
24:21We do not know how the outsides would look then.
24:26But what's certain is that there would be no violence between the human being
24:34and his environment, his surroundings. Right?
24:40Right? That violence is the fundamental characteristic of being unclean.
24:48Unclean. Right?
24:50I am not a factor, not an agent, not a force of cleanliness.
24:57If I enter this place, if I enter this place and leave it worse when I go back.
25:09That's called being an agent of filth. I came here and the place was worse off when I left.
25:20Worse off in all ways possible.
25:22In my effect, not just on the way this stage looks, that the podium looks,
25:32but also in my effect on the living beings sitting over here.
25:40Also my effect on the living beings that are present here, but we cannot see with our eyes
25:45because they might be outside the scope of these walls.
25:52That's cleanliness.
26:01To not to be in a violent relationship with your environment.
26:10Not to be in a violent relationship with your environment.
26:14It's not just about not having visible dirt or plastic or stuff of that kind.
26:24No.
26:24You can have a very modern state of the art, extremely clean and hygienic slaughterhouse.
26:42Cleaner than a government hospital in North India.
26:49And if we show you pics of that hospital and that slaughterhouse,
26:56you would immediately say, oh that one, that one, that one is cleaner.
27:03And we have not yet told you that one is a hospital and the other one is a slaughterhouse.
27:09The hospital would not look half as clean as the slaughterhouse.
27:15That's a stupid definition of cleanliness, no?
27:21Just to call something clean because it looks clean to the eyes.
27:29You have to look at the totality of what is happening there.
27:34It might look clean to the eyes.
27:35But something extremely violent is happening there and which is made worse by the fact that it is not visible.
27:45It is not visible.
27:48That huge SUV, ah, is doing something to the environment that is not easily visible to the naked eye.
28:01How clean is that?
28:01How clean is that?
28:05And there might be a Khatara bus.
28:10Right? In Rajasthan, MP, UP, somewhere.
28:14Decrepit.
28:17Ready to give up the ghost at any point.
28:22But it's carrying 80 passengers.
28:26The official capacity is 54.
28:28The fact is that the per capita emissions are negligible.
28:37Even if the engine is 1950s vintage, still because it is carrying 80 people,
28:46the per capita emissions are negligible.
28:50Right?
28:51And the huge SUV might actually be a very modern EV.
28:59Very, very modern electric vehicle.
29:01And you might say, you know, electric vehicle, no emissions.
29:05Sir, the entire charging is happening from fossil fuel power.
29:13Right? How do you call it clean?
29:17How do you call it clean?
29:18Yes.
29:19And the EV has technology of 2025.
29:26Most modern technology.
29:28And that bus, UP roadways, has 1955 technology.
29:36Tell me which one is cleaner.
29:39Which one is cleaner?
29:41This SUV is carrying one person.
29:44One person.
29:46One fat pampered person who thinks he is entitled to do anything that he wants to do with the environment.
29:54Worse still, he has convinced himself that he is doing something that's environment friendly.
30:00You know, this is an EV SUV.
30:07Tell me.
30:10Immediately you would want to say that the man driving the EV is doing something that's cleaner.
30:19And what's happening in the other picture where you have that old diesel guzzling bus
30:26that's doing something that's harming the environment.
30:32And you could have a, you could have a pick of the exhaust as well.
30:38And dark fumes emerging from the exhaust of the bus would further convince you
30:45that something extremely dirty is happening here.
30:47But is the conclusion so obvious?
30:55Do we need to be so hasty in concluding?
31:00Or is the fact a little different?
31:05We must totally get rid of gross notions of cleanliness.
31:12Cleanliness, cleanliness in 2025 must have only one meaning.
31:20Carbon.
31:23Carbon.
31:26Oh, you look so clean.
31:29You look so clean.
31:32Four times a day, you are taking the shower.
31:38No, that's a very dirty thing to do sir or ma'am.
31:47Very dirty thing to do.
31:52Especially in a place where the annual rainfall is 10 centimeter.
31:5710 centimeter of annual rainfall.
31:59A lot of reliance on desalinated water.
32:06And then you want to look so clean.
32:12By consuming so much water?
32:13No.
32:14That's the dirtiest thing probably that you can do.
32:20And I don't know how it happens here, but in India, people
32:23would take a pipe, a hose pipe, and wash their vehicles as well.
32:28And then the vehicle would start looking clean.
32:31You know, that's a very dirty practice.
32:38A very dirty practice.
32:39So, from the superficial definition of cleanliness, which is about cleanliness visible to the naked eye,
32:49we want to come to a less material definition of cleanliness, which relates to carbon emissions.
32:56But it's still a material definition after all, because carbon dioxide is a material thing.
33:01And ultimately, we are saying that real cleanliness about being clean here, about being clean here,
33:09if we cannot fully grasp or immediately come to a point of cleanliness inside,
33:17let's at least shun the notions of outward cleanliness.
33:23Not that I'm advocating that outwardly, we should be stinking and dirty and unseemly and shabby.
33:33No.
33:35I'm not advocating that.
33:36I'm just saying that if cleanliness is something so valuable, we better know what it really means.
33:46Just because something has a shiny skin, be it a human being or an SUV,
33:52that doesn't make it clean?
33:57Or does it?
33:59Just because a place has shiny roads, that doesn't make it clean?
34:05Or shiny buildings, that doesn't make it clean?
34:13If the entire world to be as clean as the United States of America,
34:18we would need close to eight planets like our own to sustain that level of cleanliness.
34:36We better remain outwardly a little unclean.
34:44That's probably acceptable.
34:48That's alright.
34:48I was just wondering like people who are living like very slow life,
34:58even like in Bali or villages in India,
35:01they're able to be much more like they are cleaner naturally without trying.
35:07They are living a slow life because they are not yet getting the opportunity to live the
35:12fast and dreamy life that probably you do or most of us do.
35:16So it's again circumstantial, environmental, random, coincidental.
35:26You're kidding it.
35:27The man in that village who appears like living a slow life is not doing so out of choice.
35:37In fact, in his heart, he is continuously aspiring.
35:40Can I also somehow make it to Mumbai or Dubai?
35:45Just that he is not yet getting the chance or maybe he is not diligent enough or smart enough or skilled enough.
36:01As long as your behavior is an output of your environment,
36:09there is no way any kind of behavior that you display can be counted as credit towards you.
36:28A gun to your temple and you are made to behave in a proper, honorable, decent, respectable way.
36:35Should I credit you for that? Should I? The moment the gun is gone,
36:46you will revert to only you know what.
36:52Getting it? It's not that the man in the village leading a slow life is virtuous.
36:59He is just deprived of opportunity. Opportunity.
37:10In fact, he might be as full of greed and ambition and aspiration and violence as anybody else
37:18and given a chance.
37:23He might shortchange you in the worst way possible.
37:29I recall this one often.
37:36So, there was a shopping mall I went to more than 10 years back
37:43and a particular piece of furniture was to be bought.
37:48The bodsthal was being built then.
37:51So, the shopkeeper selling the furniture, he tried to act smart and tried to dupe us
38:04and there was some argument and we ultimately got him around and got the right price.
38:13But it left a bitter taste in the mouth. Somebody you have just discovered was trying to fool you.
38:22That doesn't leave you with a happy mind.
38:27You are being tricked. And then we return to the parking lot and there the parking guy,
38:39he is demanding 20 rupees extra by acting smart and showing us the wrong kind of slip.
38:45And then there was somebody with me and I said,
38:50how is this behaviour fundamentally different from the behaviour of the shopkeeper inside the mall?
38:55So, it's not really necessary that if somebody is poor or slow,
39:13then that points at virtuosity. No way.
39:19But we have been somewhere taught to think like that.
39:27That there is a certain virtue in poverty.
39:31In India, we often refer to the poor as Daridra Narayan.
39:36Daridra means poor and Narayan means God. Why?
39:43Give him a chance. Just give him a chance and he will show you what he is capable of.
39:48He too is running the same race. Just that he is a laggard. It's not that he has willingly
39:57opted out of the race. He is in the same race.
40:01Just that he is not able to run that race properly. That's why he has been left behind.
40:06Not that he has opted out. No, that's real cleanliness. To see that the race is dirty.
40:15Not to run the usual race. And that does not mean that you opt out of the race and do nothing.
40:24That means to walk a different path.
40:31That means to discover who you are and hence discover the path you must take.
40:37That's cleanliness.
40:45So, these days we are talking of debris, not only on the land,
40:56but also on the ocean floor. Who did that? Third world countries.
41:08Who did that? The third world countries. We are also talking of pollution in space.
41:15So, thousands of material pieces are orbiting our planet now.
41:25Just like satellites. Anything that's there in outer space would orbit the earth and they are orbiting.
41:33And they can cause any kind of accidents. And those accidents can prove fatal given that we are
41:45having more and more manned space missions now.
41:52So, there's a country that dirties the land.
41:56And then there are countries that are keeping the land and the surroundings nice to look at.
42:04Nice to look at.
42:06But are dirtying the atmosphere, the ocean floor and also outer space.
42:15We need to look at the whole thing in a more holistic way.
42:19What do we mean by cleanliness?
42:26Cleanliness is not something that comes by being poor.
42:32Cleanliness is also not something that comes by being rich.
42:36Cleanliness is an entirely different dimension.
42:49Cleanliness is an entirely different dimension.
42:53Cleanliness is what is the year.
42:54Cleanliness exists.
42:58It has a place in the future to come by building our planet.
43:00Cleanliness is what is the year in our market.
43:01Cleanliness is an entirely different dimension.
43:03Cleanliness is aáºn dimension.
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