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Alex Barth and Matt Dolloff share their reactions immediately following the New England Patriots' Week 2 preseason game against the Minnesota Vikings.
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#nfl #patriots #nflpreseason
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00:00Welcome into a special post-game edition of the Patriots Hub podcast.
00:04How about this, huh? Alex Barth, Matt Doloff with you from 98.5thesportslub.com.
00:08Usually we don't get to the show until a day, maybe two after the game,
00:11but first day preseason game for the Patriots since 1997, Doloff.
00:16Right, it's preseason primetime.
00:19Right, we got to take advantage of the extra hours in the day, get this podcast up.
00:23We can get it up like quickly, instant reaction.
00:25No time to go over the film.
00:26No time, we're just going to be, we're going to be instant reaction takes here.
00:30I mean, why enjoy the rest of our Saturday?
00:32Let's, let's keep working.
00:33Or our Sunday.
00:34I'll be on for four hours tomorrow with Sir Ron Bata, which I will enjoy.
00:37And we'll talk about the game, but we figured we'd get kind of a quick reaction up.
00:40So let's get right to it, Doloff, since it's a quick reaction, we'll be quick.
00:44We did get to see the Patriots starters.
00:46Granted, it was against the Vikings backups, but the starters, most of the starters did play.
00:50Stephon Diggs, Morgan Moses, they were out.
00:52We'll do offense first.
00:53Starting offense, your big takeaway from the two drives we got out of that group.
00:59Well, doesn't matter that Drake May was going up against backups when he sailed a pass well
01:04over the head of Demario Douglas and a pass that should have been an easy interception
01:07for the Vikings safety.
01:08A starting safety probably makes that interception.
01:11That was a disappointing play for May.
01:14That's easy money.
01:15He was wide open in the soft area of the zone.
01:18Like that is a hallmark of the Josh McDaniels offense.
01:22You know where, like you're on the same page.
01:24You see where he's going.
01:26He's ready to make the throw.
01:27And then he just sails the throw.
01:29Like there was just no need for it.
01:31That's probably an interception against a starting defense in a real game.
01:35And that's just, those are the easy, simple plays that you can't screw up.
01:38Like that's part of winning football.
01:40Like we know Drake May's talent.
01:42Like I'm going to say it every week, I guess.
01:44Like we know the talents there.
01:45The talent is for real.
01:46So it's the little things.
01:48It's the details.
01:49And he also had a delay a game penalty.
01:53Yeah.
01:53He had that shoe.
01:54He took responsibility for after the game.
01:57That's good.
01:57Yeah.
01:58Yeah.
01:58No, it's good.
01:58Like that.
01:59He has accountability and all that.
02:00And it was, it was encouraging to hear that he was showing poise under pressure in the
02:04joint practices, not saying it's, it's been a disaster or anything like that, but it's
02:09those little things that like, it's, it could be the difference between winning and losing
02:13football games.
02:14It's like, does Drake may want to be a guy that can just put up numbers and not win?
02:18Or if he wants to be a guy that wins, he has to take those simple, easy plays when they're
02:23there.
02:23And so I know that was just one play.
02:25I'm not going to, nobody's trading Drake may or anything like that.
02:28Um, but that, that was just a bad play for him.
02:32Yeah.
02:32He had a couple sprays.
02:33There was the one, I think it was the first play of the game in the first throw that Mac
02:37Hollins caught, which was an impressive catch by Mac Hollins.
02:40We'll get to Mac Hollins.
02:41Uh, had another one that I think some people are going to call inaccurate.
02:45The window Hollins on the sideline.
02:46I don't mind using some elevation to a six, five receiver.
02:49That's a catchable ball.
02:50Uh, the big knock to me was the delay of game more than anything else.
02:53You obviously don't want to see the sprays, but I think it was kind of what we've seen
02:57for May in this camp at times where the start was not terrible, but not what you want.
03:03And then once he settled in, he was good.
03:04I thought the second drive was much better.
03:06Um, make some good reads, had the check to the third and 10 run up the middle from Travion
03:11Henderson for the first down.
03:13So I think he settled in and ultimately ended on a high note.
03:16It's just, again, cutting down.
03:18I don't think he made any outside the delay game.
03:20I don't, you can call it a bad decision if you want.
03:22I just think that was a dumb mistake.
03:24Um, I didn't look at it and see any bad decisions in this game from Drake.
03:29May there a couple of bad throws and you want to cut down on those, but no bad decisions.
03:33I thought he was fine.
03:34There's a couple of things in there to tighten up, like for him to be a little bit better in
03:38the regular season.
03:39But overall, for what sounded like it was a strong week, I think he, uh, he in the two
03:45joint practices was a strong week.
03:46I think he can come away even after that game feeling like it was a strong week for him.
03:50Yeah.
03:51Yeah.
03:51Overall, like it's not like it ruined his whole week or anything today's game, but like,
03:55yeah, that, that play that was almost an interception, that was a physical thing.
03:58Um, but like you said, he sprays the ball, which is, which can be aggravating.
04:02It's just like those details could be the difference.
04:04Like, I think the Patriots are going to be a serviceable, respectable team overall this year.
04:09They're gonna be well coached and all that, but like those little things could be the
04:13difference between winning, you know, seven, eight games or 10 or 11 games.
04:17Like that could be like those, those little plays on the margins are going to be things
04:21that could add up over the course of the season.
04:23And we might come away from the season disappointed if, if, if he can't tighten those things up.
04:27And like, I know everybody, it's a 50, it's a team sport, 53 man roster, but like, he's
04:32at the top of the list of the guy that has to be on those details.
04:34And so that sounded like he was good in the joint practices.
04:37Uh, there, there are some positives to take away from that.
04:40Uh, just, you know, something for him to build on and, uh, you know, look at the film and
04:43just get better.
04:45Something that was interesting to me, that's Drake made Jason and we've seen it in practice,
04:49but now we've got to see it in a game.
04:50Like him and Mac Hollins have some chemistry, which considering Hollins, I don't want to say
04:55he's behind everybody else.
04:56Cause he seems like he knows the playbook, but like he didn't work with Drake made in the
05:00spring.
05:00If he didn't work with him for the first week and a half of camp, I think it was right
05:04before he came off PUP.
05:05So the two of them being as on the same page as they are is encouraging.
05:11I know there's some fans that don't want to see as much of Mac Hollins.
05:13They want to see some of the younger receivers get more of a chance, but right.
05:16If he's a good target for Drake may, like it's all about Drake may, you got to do what's
05:20going to make Drake may comfortable.
05:21If Drake may likes throwing him the football and it seems like he does, you're going to want
05:26to have him out there.
05:27Yeah, it's, but well at wide receiver specifically, like as the more we've gone on in camp, the
05:32more I've thought, like, I'm not sure they really have a big play guy at that position.
05:37Like Stefan Diggs and pop Douglas, they could occasionally maybe make a big play down the
05:42field, but I don't know that they're going to be consistently that kind of guy.
05:44They're probably going to be more volume, you know, short to intermediate targets, especially
05:49and Josh McDaniels might look at them as such.
05:52Mac Hollins could be the guy that can, you know, catch a jump ball down the field, catch a,
05:56catch a deep post into the corner of the end zone.
05:58We've seen a lot of those in practice.
06:00And so, yeah, I'm not giving up on Mac Hollins.
06:03I think he's, he's, he seems like he's been good in the locker room teammate and all that.
06:08And he just brings that element of size and, you know, one-on-one abilities that, that
06:12I think other team, other guys on the team don't really have.
06:15And if he and Drake may have chemistry, like I'm not going to give up on a guy that has chemistry
06:19with the quarterback.
06:19And so, yeah, he had, I thought he had a solid day.
06:24On the offensive line, the other big story at first unit, I know we need to see it in pads.
06:28I know starting offensive line looked good.
06:32No real pressure on Drake May.
06:34There was one where, where Marcus Bryant got beat.
06:36May stepped right around it.
06:37That was the one of Hollins on the sideline.
06:39The run blocking was outstanding.
06:41Will Campbell looked very good after what sounded like a rough practice yesterday.
06:44I know it was against backups, but you want to see a guy bounce back.
06:47Um, obviously still some questions that come out of the joint practices.
06:50Jonathan Gernard is one of the best pass rushers in the league, and he's going to face guys
06:53like that more often than not, but it was good to see him bounce back.
06:58And, and you again, see some of the things that are the reasons he was picked as high
07:02as he was.
07:03Yeah.
07:04I'm just waiting to see how they look at pads, Barth.
07:05All right.
07:06So let's, let's just move on.
07:07No.
07:07Um, yeah.
07:08Clean cheaper, Will Campbell.
07:09So that's encouraging.
07:10Uh, and yeah, I know he wasn't going up against Bernard.
07:12Uh, he was going up against reserves, but that's how he should look against reserves.
07:17And he's been consistently good run blocking against even starters.
07:21And so I think the run blocking especially is going to be something that translates.
07:24And that's, you know, I know Josh McDaniels is going to want to run the ball and they're
07:28going to want to have the ball in Travion Henderson's hands a lot.
07:30And Campbell, you know, cleared the lane for him on that touchdown run.
07:34And he also blocked pretty well on that deep ball that, that went to Holland's that, that
07:38may had to sort of escape the pocket, but you know, Will Campbell had his block there
07:42and Henderson chipped there.
07:43So that was good teamwork by the top two draft picks.
07:46But yeah, like I, after he had what sounded like a really tough couple of days in joint
07:50practice, I know you like Mike Vrabel doesn't have to tell him, well, look, it was only
07:54against backups.
07:55Like they can go back at the film and say, this is good.
07:57This is what you need to do.
07:58Like you can still look at things technique wise and say, this is what you're supposed
08:02to do here.
08:03And look, it'll be a harder challenge going up against better players, starting caliber
08:06players.
08:07And I expect them to have ups and downs as a rookie playing every snap.
08:11Like I think anyone expecting any rookie to be perfect all the time is just being unreasonable.
08:16But I thought, you know, Campbell had a, had a solid finish to the week there.
08:20And so hopefully something he could build on and, you know, we'll see if he learned from
08:24the mistakes he made on, in those joint practices.
08:28And then Travion Henderson, or sorry, the one of the, before he gets Henderson, the one
08:32other thing with the offensive line.
08:33So Jared Wilson gets moved to the second unit is playing guard.
08:37Vrabel said he couldn't practice Thursday.
08:39So I don't know if that was a thing where he wasn't prepared enough to play with the
08:44ones.
08:44Maybe they essentially got their game plan stuff in Thursday, uh, or if they are really
08:48demoting him and opening that thing back up.
08:50He also did play some at center with that second unit.
08:53So maybe that conversations back with Garrett Bradbury, uh, struggling and it's starting
08:59to feel a little shaky.
09:00Like this was a big thing last year, right?
09:02It was whoever the five are, you want to pick them and let them roll together.
09:05So they start to build some continuity.
09:06It feels like there might be some more tinkering to come here with like three weeks to go into
09:12the opener.
09:13Continuity feels like it's out the window at this point, right?
09:16Barth.
09:16Yeah.
09:16Um, yeah, it's unfortunate with Wilson.
09:18Like he was off to a good start.
09:20Uh, he's looked good in those one-on-one drills, but I think maybe once you get them into the
09:24full team, uh, drills, especially when he's going up against other teams starters, uh, you
09:29know, it's sort of, sort of starts to show that he's not quite ready.
09:32And so ideally he's a guy that develops in the background, but then again, like, what
09:37do you have ahead of him?
09:38Like Garrett Bradbury, another, he had a bad day today and he was going up against backups
09:42and like, he looked exactly the same as he's looked all summer, whether he's against starters
09:46or backups.
09:47And so, but it sounds like he's going to be the starter.
09:49They're going to try to ride him as the starting center as long as they can.
09:52And then you have Ben Brown, who's been filling in at left guard and like, look, I still like
09:57Ben Brown.
09:58I think for a, you know, a reserve, a fill in type of guy that like, he's been solid.
10:03Um, but that's just not, not an ideal situation.
10:05Rookie left tackle, a guy that typically plays center and was, you know, pulled off the scrap
10:10heap last year at left guard, a center that's been struggling all summer.
10:15Uh, and you know, right tackle.
10:16I know they had Marcus Bryant today.
10:18Maybe Morgan Moses can settle that down once they get into the regular season.
10:21Uh, Michael when, who's probably the only guy that you feel completely solid about, uh,
10:26in his spot.
10:26And so, yeah, like continuity, forget about it and just talent depth wise, like the concerns,
10:32like there's nothing to pull from the game that makes you feel any better.
10:37Yeah, I I'd agree with that.
10:38Uh, Travion Henderson, time to put him in bubble wrap.
10:42Like what more do we need to see?
10:43Runs fast, runs hard.
10:45He's continuing to look like a, an excellent draft pick.
10:48No, I said on, on 95, the sports hub.com.
10:50And they got to freeze him in carbonite, like Han Solo in, uh, Empire Strikes Back,
10:54not even bubble wrap, like just, just completely cryogenically freeze him until the start of
10:59the regular season.
10:59Yeah.
10:59There's nothing left to see, uh, the, the speed and the burst are for real.
11:03And I think what, you know, what I didn't realize about him is the balance and the,
11:08the strength after contact.
11:09Like I didn't think, I didn't see him as like a contact guy, but on that touchdown run,
11:14like he got bumped at the line and he still, he powered through, he stayed on his feet
11:17and got to the end zone.
11:18And so ideally you're not, he's not making that much contact overall.
11:23Uh, ideally you get on the ball in space and you can just go, but that's been impressive
11:28to me is the fact that he has such good play strength when he has the ball in his hands.
11:31And so, yeah, no, a's across the board for Henderson all summer.
11:35I feel like he's been, he's been the most, not a pleasant surprise, but he's the most pleasant
11:39development of the summer so far, certainly among the rookies.
11:42And so, yeah, I, I don't need to see any more of them.
11:44I can see, we can wait for week one with Travion Henderson.
11:48Before we get to some of the more depth players, cause we, there is somebody, obviously we have
11:51to get to just anything from the defense standout.
11:53You said on our preview pod, you wanted the starting front to have a good game.
11:56Starting front had a very good game.
11:58Yeah.
11:59Yeah.
11:59Yeah.
11:59Thanks for teaming me up there.
12:00Milton Williams with, with the pressure up the middle, uh, flushes, uh, Sam Howell out
12:05of the pocket.
12:05He runs right into the edge pressure for Caleb on chase on throws up a duck.
12:09Alex Austin comes down with the interception.
12:11That's, that's exactly what we're looking for, right?
12:13From the, you know, if you're not getting a sack, rush the guy into a bad throw or a
12:18bad decision.
12:19And that's exactly what they got.
12:20Uh, you know, the trade-off is the prior drive.
12:23There was a third and seven players, something like that, where what Milton Williams got caught
12:27in the backfield over pursuing and the quarterback was able to run up and pick up a first down
12:31scrambling.
12:32And so I guess that's sort of the trade-off with the defense, but I think you'll take a, you
12:36know, an occasional first down scramble if you're going to cause interceptions that
12:39way.
12:40And so, yeah, I said in the pre, in the, the, the pregame show, basically our pregame
12:44podcast, uh, that I wanted to come away with something to feel good about on the defense.
12:47And I thought Milton Williams was a strong candidate for that.
12:50And he, you know, he, he delivered and that, that defensive front delivered.
12:53I'll say with chase on too.
12:55I just think he deserves a ton of credit for the summer he's had because this is a guy,
12:58he had a good finish to the year last year, but for the most part has been kind of a
13:02letdown for what you're looking for in a first round pick, which he was four years
13:05ago, uh, comes here, starts having a great summer.
13:09It continues when the pads come on, he gets hurt.
13:12And sometimes guys like that, like you get hurt and he missed a week.
13:15I think it was actually a little more than a week, but like he missed multiple practices.
13:18He missed a joint practice with Washington.
13:21And all right, like that guy goes down.
13:23Does that derail everything?
13:24And he's come back and hasn't missed a beat.
13:27So that kind of tells me that this is maybe a little more real than I thought at first
13:32with him.
13:33So I, to, to continue power, it's not like he dealt a serious injury, but it's just
13:37the mental side of being away from it from a week and coming back in and just snapping
13:41back into it, especially this early in the year where, you know, if it's during the season
13:45and you miss a week, you're still so ingrained in that routine.
13:48It can be easy to snap back in, um, his ability to pick up where he left off.
13:52I think he deserves a ton of credit for that.
13:55Let's get to some of the standouts.
13:57Obviously we have to start with Efton Chisholm.
13:59I said on Monday or on Friday when we didn't, when I said, when we went through, people are
14:04clicking that thumbnail part.
14:05It's like, where's the Chisholm talk?
14:07Give me the Chisholm.
14:08I think I had him as like item five in my takeaways.
14:10Got to make him scroll sometimes.
14:12You got to keep them on the page there.
14:13That's right.
14:14I said, I was like, I said, he was one step below a roster lock.
14:18He just needed to not blow it.
14:20I'm ready to say he's a lock that.
14:22He was fantastic today.
14:24And look, we haven't seen him against the ones.
14:26That's usually the final indicator that you DFA is like the roster pushes real, but at
14:33the same time, all right, if we're not going to see that and we're judging him against
14:37the twos, he looks like what it should look like when a player who should be running with
14:43the ones is running with the twos.
14:44Kind of like Anthony Jennings.
14:47Like we, and we'll get to that in a little bit, but a guy that should be repping higher
14:52up isn't for a reason and is just taking over against lesser competition.
14:57That's what F.
14:57It doesn't mean he's going to have every game is going to look like that when he is eventually
15:02with the ones.
15:02I think he's still a developmental player, but like it's tremendous natural ability that
15:08you can tap into either this year or over time.
15:10So to me, he's on, he's got his spot.
15:13The, the ability to separate the, after the catch thing today is like the thing we really
15:18haven't seen in camp because you obviously can't tackle in training camp.
15:22Right.
15:22So that just adds another layer to it.
15:26He's done.
15:27And David Andrews tweeted about it.
15:28He's right.
15:28Like this is what it looks like running with an opportunity and it's exactly what Efton Chisholm
15:33is doing.
15:33Yeah, literally.
15:34Yeah.
15:35So that's a good point that we haven't really seen in camp, uh, the after the catch stuff
15:39because he can't tackle.
15:40But I always thought that he, he showed like an extra gear kind of competitiveness, uh,
15:45you know, compete level after the catch in those camp drills.
15:48And that's really translated to these games.
15:50And especially today, his toughness and his, his effort after the catch.
15:54I mean, I feel like that's, that's another hallmark of a Josh McDaniels offense.
15:58That's what you would love to see in your slot receiver in that particular offense.
16:01And so, yeah, I think I don't, I'm not going to push back on him being a lock.
16:05Mike Reese was on TV earlier, holding up a giant, uh, lock of some kind.
16:09It looked like a lock that you put on a big safe.
16:11He says a Chisholm is a lock.
16:13So that was good symbolism there by Mike, by the great Mike Reese.
16:16But yeah, I, I loved his ability after the catch today.
16:19And I loved his ability to, to, to separate as well.
16:22And yeah, that's a point that we've been making where like, if you look that good against
16:26backups, then you're probably an NFL caliber player.
16:29Like, I feel like he is going to be an NFL receiver, whether it's here or whether he ends
16:34up on the practice squad signed somewhere else.
16:36Like, I think he's going to be able to carve out a role somewhere, but I mean, if you want
16:41to get to other receivers on the depth chart, Chisholm might be passing some of these guys
16:45on the depth chart.
16:46Kendrick Bourne's been out.
16:47Yeah.
16:47Like, when's he even going to be back?
16:49Like, you don't know what, what his status is.
16:51I don't know that he's necessarily a lock.
16:54Javon Baker, I thought went backwards today.
16:56And so, you know, like after that, you know, top three, four guys, I feel like spots are
17:01really up for grabs and Chisholm's done the best job of anybody, uh, to really, to really
17:06seize that opportunity.
17:07I feel like this day, this is a huge day for him.
17:09And I wouldn't be surprised if we see him more with the starters going forward.
17:13Any other offensive players stand out to you?
17:15Like up upside, there's one guy I want to talk about who had a rough day, but anybody
17:19else stand up to you?
17:20Like on the, on the upshot?
17:22Uh, no, I'm good.
17:22You can, you can go with the gut.
17:23Let's go to the downs.
17:24All right.
17:25I, yeah.
17:26Ups into which Dolph has his ups and downs on 98, five, the sports hub.com, but to just
17:29kind of gloss over it, uh, another rough one for Josh Dobbs and my thing with the backup
17:34quarterbacks, especially a guy like that.
17:35Like I get it.
17:36Josh Dobbs here.
17:36Cause he's a veteran.
17:37He's here to teach Drake may he's here to add that presence in a room.
17:41I get that your backup quarterback is not going to be perfect.
17:45When you start getting guys hurt, that's when kind of the alarm goes off for me.
17:49And he got caught with like that throw to Kyle Williams was high and it's a physical
17:54catch either way.
17:55And I'm not against him throwing that ball entirely, but that's got to be on the body
17:59or low.
18:00So he can get down and protect himself was up.
18:02Kyle Williams is exposed, takes a hit, walks off.
18:04Mike Vrabel said he'll have an update on Kyle Williams tomorrow.
18:07Um, had, had, yeah, had a couple other misses as well.
18:11Um, I, you know, it's pro I don't think Woolridge is going to, even though he was solid, I don't
18:16think Woolridge is going to beat him out for the job for able kind of downplayed that, uh,
18:21earlier this week, but it, yeah, it's been a rough, rough summer for Josh Dobbs.
18:27Yeah.
18:27Like it's at this point, it feels like the Patriots have sort of made their bed with, with
18:31Dobbs as the backup quarterback, but I think it's also fair to wonder like, is, is Ben
18:36Woldridge pushing him a little bit?
18:38Cause Woldridge has looked a lot better than him in these preseason games.
18:41I know he's going up against, you know, force triggers guys that probably aren't going to
18:44be on rosters, uh, by the end of the preseason.
18:47But like, I don't think Dobbs should be, should have his spot locked in the way he's been
18:51playing.
18:52Like, yeah, he's been spraying the ball all over the field.
18:54I'm not sure his decision-making has been as sharp as you want from a backup court.
18:58You want your backup quarterback to really be on his P's and Q's.
19:01And like, so I'm not sure he's been that much of an example for, for Drake may as a veteran
19:05guy who's been, you know, he's been, you know, he's been, you know,
19:06he's been around the league.
19:08Um, yeah, I've been really disappointing summer for him.
19:10And like, yeah, today was, today was no different.
19:13I, um, would you, I had a thought on that.
19:17I just had it.
19:18This is maybe this is why we don't do it after the show.
19:20Cause my brain is like fried.
19:21Uh, great for the audio only listen.
19:23I know I would, uh, I'd call the Vikings if they're going to cut Max Brosmer.
19:27I'll say that.
19:28I don't know about a replacement for Josh jobs.
19:29I was very impressed with Max Brosmer today.
19:31Also against four stringers, but still, uh, on defense, the big bubble player,
19:36we're talking, there's really two.
19:38It's Kyle Duggar and Anthony Jennings.
19:40And last week we talked about this.
19:41Kyle Duggar looked like a bubble player.
19:43Didn't look like he was for sure going to get cut.
19:45Played some of the second quarter, some of the third quarter.
19:47Didn't really play the whole way.
19:49It was Anthony Jennings after playing on the scout team during the week was in
19:53there at the end of the game.
19:54Looked like a guy who's going to get cut.
19:56Jennings got more reps today and boy, did he make the most of it?
20:00Three sacks.
20:01I think he had another run stuff, another pressure.
20:03He was awesome.
20:04He was electric in this game.
20:05I really hope they find a spot for him.
20:08And what Vrabel said after the game, like didn't sort, he didn't, wasn't asked
20:13directly about it, but he sounded impressed.
20:15Not just with Jennings performance, but the way he's handled everything.
20:18And I wonder if for, you know, culture reasons, that's a guy they keep around.
20:22Meanwhile, Kyle Duggar, who looked like last week, they're going to keep, not only
20:25does he play till the very end of the game on the very last play of the game in an eight
20:29point game and one score game, he intercepts the ball with no time on the clock.
20:34And instead of going down, tries to run it out, nearly gets stripped.
20:38And I don't know how much they did that review.
20:40Cause it's the preseason and everybody just wanted to go home.
20:43Yeah.
20:43But I think that's, I don't know what the line was.
20:45If it was like Patriots minus four, there's probably some people out there who
20:48were upset.
20:48Um, but like, that's the kind of, you talk about cutting out bad football, which
20:54is something Mike Vrabel has preached time and time again, you go down, there's
20:59nothing to be gained by running that out.
21:00And that's something that I don't think is going to go over well for the coach
21:04with the coaching staff.
21:05So you're, you're competing for roster spot.
21:08You're slipping later and later into these preseason games, slipping further and
21:11further down the depth chart.
21:12I understand why he might be pressing and why he might want to make a play on, on, on
21:16a play like that, but to almost get stripped, like in the regular season, if they call
21:20that a fumble, the Vikings were covered in the end zone.
21:22That's a touchdown.
21:23Two point conversion ties the game.
21:25Now you're going to overtime.
21:25Like that could be a costly mistake.
21:28That, that is something that he can't, he couldn't afford a mistake like that.
21:32Like I, I'm going to, I'm going to do my roster projection after this.
21:37Like I was already going to revisit it.
21:38The fact he was playing that late, but that, I don't know.
21:41Am I overreacting to that one play that ultimately wasn't even a fumble or like, I
21:45think that's the kind of thing the coaching staff is going to make a bigger deal of than
21:48maybe some people think.
21:50No, I don't think you're overreacting.
21:51Talk about a perfect ending to the game, right?
21:53The tugger out there in the first place on the last play.
21:56Yeah.
21:56And then has that, just that weird.
21:58I was even thinking like, how wild would it be if Kyle Dugger just wraps us up with
22:01a pick after all of this?
22:03But I mean, I like knock the ball down.
22:05You don't even need to intercept the ball.
22:06The clock's run out games over.
22:08Just knock it down.
22:09And like, he was wide open.
22:10The ball was right in his bread basket.
22:12Like, I guess, I guess maybe instinctively it's like, all right, I'm going to, the
22:15ball's in my hands before I even realize it.
22:18But yeah, you got to go right down there.
22:20Like, you can't even, I think he hesitated for a second.
22:22For a second, I think, this is to your point, I think he is pressing a little bit where
22:26like, he had a second where he took a step, like, I'm going to try to run this out or
22:30I'm going to try to make a big, a big play, like return it a hundred yards, 105 yards for
22:35a pick six, because he's, he's worried about his status with the team.
22:39And so I think that was, I think part of it was that he, that he's pressing a little
22:42bit, but like that just goes back to your point about eliminating bad football.
22:46Like that would be terrible football.
22:48I was terrified for a second that the Vikings were about to get a touchdown on that, on
22:52that play.
22:52And then we had to sit through a two point conversion and God forbid, we got to sit
22:56through overtime.
22:57Like, I think that's what that's the reference time in the preseason.
22:59I think Devin McCourty did the same thing you did a little earlier.
23:05Yeah.
23:05No, no, but we'd have to sit through a tie, which is the worst part about football is
23:09that they have ties in the sport.
23:11No, thank God.
23:12Arguably worse.
23:13Yeah, whatever.
23:14It doesn't matter.
23:15But like, yeah, like I think the rest were just like, please, we don't even want, we
23:18don't even want to do another play here.
23:19Let's just go home.
23:21But yeah, like Kyle Dugger didn't even need to make the interception in the first
23:23place.
23:24And once it's in your hands, like you've got to just go straight down, take a knee,
23:27something like that.
23:29The fact that that was even that close to being stripped was, was a terrible sign for
23:33him.
23:34And yeah, like, I feel like he's almost on the outside looking in and like, it's still a tough
23:37decision for the Patriots, Barthi, because the money this year is guaranteed.
23:43Like the, the, the salary is all the, all the cash is guaranteed.
23:46He still has guaranteed money left on the deal.
23:48You don't save any cap space.
23:49If you cut him, it's just the raw.
23:51I mean, you save cap space in the future, but you'd also save that cap space.
23:53If you cut them after the year, like it's just the roster spot.
23:56That's all I get it.
23:57I get it.
23:58If you don't want to pay that much for a backup safety, but like, I don't know, I feel
24:01like it's, I feel like you might as well just, just keep them and use them wherever
24:04you can, if you're going to pay them anyway.
24:06Right.
24:07And then you worry about, worry about him being too expensive after this year, you know,
24:11figure out, figure that out later.
24:12Right now it's like, well, we're going to have to pay him.
24:15So we might as well, as well, you know, see what we can do with them.
24:18But like, yeah, the fact that he's playing late in the fourth quarter is, is a terrible
24:21sign for him.
24:22Well, it's, you know, and then there's the mental side of it, right?
24:25How's he going to handle a backup role or something like this?
24:27So real quick, Anthony Jennings on or off the roster, Dolph.
24:29I want him to be on, I'll, I'll say on because I feel like the, the edge, the edge depth chart
24:37isn't quite as strong as we might want it to be.
24:40Like, I know they have Harold Nander, Keon White, Caleb on chase on those are, that feels
24:44like they're big three edge guys right now.
24:46But I like Anthony Jennings as an edge setter.
24:49I think he's always been sort of underrated as a pass rusher, not, not like entirely what
24:53you want at that spot from a guy of his size as a pass rusher.
24:58But I feel like he's, he can occasionally, you know, make a play off the edge like that
25:02against, against the passer.
25:04And you put up against backups and you get what you saw in the second half today.
25:07I thought he played really well.
25:08And, you know, he's sort of the polar opposite of Duggar in the second half where like, I
25:13thought he really showed out throughout the time that he was out there.
25:16And so I hope he still makes the team, but I get it if he's sort of on the bubble because
25:21he's not necessarily an exact fit for what they're trying to do up front defensively.
25:26But you still worry about their ability to, to stop the run.
25:29In my opinion, I think he's a guy that can, that can help you there.
25:33If you put them on the opposite end of, of, uh, Harold Landry, I trust Anthony Jennings
25:37to set the edge against the run more than Keon White or Caleb on chase on.
25:41So I hope there's a spot for him.
25:43Um, but I understand why he's on the bubble.
25:46I think you, you saw it today.
25:48They can't afford to cut a guy with that much talent.
25:51If they can find a trade partner, maybe that's ultimately what it is.
25:55I, I don't think he's getting cut.
25:58I ultimately think he, he gets traded, but they should not be cutting him.
26:02Kyle Duggar on or off the roster.
26:04So that's just to your, to the point you just made, like, yeah, there's no point to really
26:08cutting Duggar with his guaranteed money.
26:10Like if you can find a trade partner for him, that would be good.
26:13Um, but I'm, but for the reasons I was just saying, I still have him on, um, I'll just,
26:18just use them around the line of scrimmage.
26:19Don't use them in coverage, you know, try to hide him.
26:22Uh, I feel, I forget there was a, there was a player that you kept trying to say, it might
26:25have been last year where just try to hide him.
26:28Don't, don't try to hide his weaknesses.
26:30I forget who it was.
26:30I'd start to throw you down the rabbit hole on that.
26:33I mean, that could have been a handful of players.
26:35It could have been so many players.
26:37Yeah.
26:37Yeah.
26:38Um, but yeah, like Drake, he's still, yeah, maybe, maybe, yeah.
26:41He was still good around the Duggar, still good around the line of scrimmage.
26:44He could still, he made a few plays there early in the, in the third quarter.
26:48He came up with three tackles on the same drive where he made an open field shoestring
26:52kind of tackle to get a guy out of bounds.
26:55Uh, he made a play, he, he went up and, uh, made a tackle around the line of scrimmage.
27:01Um, so he's still a good tackler and he's still got good speed.
27:04He's an athletic guy.
27:05He's just not, he can't cover like, that's just the, that's the problem with them.
27:09And like, you just hope that you, uh, maybe take them off the field on third down, you
27:13know, like maybe just only have them on the field, uh, running plays third and short,
27:17short yardage, things like that.
27:19And just have them play around the line of scrimmage.
27:21I know that's, that's expensive for, uh, you know, it's to pay $11 million for a guy
27:26to do that.
27:27But I think that's, I think that that makes the most sense out of all their options.
27:31I just wonder how the coaching staff is going to look at that last play.
27:36Like, honestly, I wonder if that's going to be something that they look at.
27:39And that's everything that Vrabel has been trying to, has been talking about wanting
27:44to get rid of change with this program.
27:47So I might have him off.
27:49I I'm going to struggle with that one.
27:50He's either player 53 or 54.
27:52I'll tell you that.
27:53That's a good, that's a good point.
27:54That's a good question, Bart.
27:55Like, is he willing to eat $11 million to just make it, to send the message that we're
28:01not going to tolerate bad football like that?
28:04That could be the question there.
28:05It's not his money.
28:06It's capital.
28:07Like the money's gone.
28:08It's his budget, you know?
28:10Right.
28:10But the, it's already budgeted is my point.
28:12Yeah.
28:13Right.
28:13Right.
28:14Like, uh, he's that they got that money either way.
28:16Right.
28:17If they can't trade that money's off the books one way or the other.
28:20So we'll see, uh, real quick here.
28:23Anything else that we missed?
28:24Uh, the kickers, I, I find it tough to hold a 57 yarder against Borgales too much, even
28:30though he missed well left, um, came back, hit a 51 yarder.
28:34He got the majority of the reps, got all the extra points.
28:37I feel like it's leading his way.
28:39Um, another good day in kick returns.
28:41They did allow, I remember what I wanted to get to.
28:43We're not going to keep this under 30, um, was so mostly good day for special teams.
28:48They have the one blemish, which is the long kick return late in game credit to Jordan
28:53Polk who chased down the returner and what was ultimately a four point play.
28:57Cause the defense held the Vikings to a field goal.
28:59And Mike Vrabel brought that up unprompted after the game, Jordan Polk also had a sack
29:03in this game.
29:04He also had a run stop in this game.
29:06He had a pick last week.
29:08So I don't think Jordan Polk is going to get a roster spot.
29:11But, you know, even if they cut Duggar and needing that other safety, he's a true free
29:15safety or he's more of a free safety slot corner hybrid than he is a box safety.
29:19So I don't know that he becomes that extra box safety.
29:21I don't know that there's ultimately a spot for him on the roster right now, but 10 days
29:25to roster cuts.
29:26Like you also start looking at now.
29:27Okay.
29:27Who's making their push for the practice squad.
29:30He's had a few strong practice.
29:32He didn't really didn't do much first half of the summer.
29:33He was one of the UDFAs I liked.
29:35And I was actually kind of surprised.
29:36We didn't see as much from him.
29:36He has the pick last week, makes a couple of plays today, the good effort play.
29:41He's been showing up in practices.
29:43So credit to him for that play.
29:45And he's somebody that I think maybe sticks around on the practice squad.
29:48Yeah.
29:49Yeah.
29:49There's, there's actually two defensive backs that I've liked in the preseason that probably
29:52don't make the team, but I've liked what I've seen is, is Polk and a miles battle,
29:56I think has been pretty good.
29:58Yeah.
29:59He can play gunner too.
30:00So.
30:01Yeah.
30:02So like I give him maybe an outside shot, you know, the practice squad, that sort of thing.
30:06So I've liked what I've seen from them.
30:07I feel like I try to show as much respect as I can to the guys playing in the third and
30:11fourth quarter of these preseason games.
30:12They're playing their hearts out, trying to make the team.
30:14And so I don't want to disrespect those guys.
30:17So I like what I've seen from those guys.
30:19But to rewind to the kick, actually, the long kick that was missed.
30:22Mike Reese, another nod to Mike Reese on TV said it was a bad snap by Julian Ashby.
30:28And then the laces were in on the hold.
30:30So maybe that's just the operation is something to look at there.
30:33Yeah, that, that, that would explain why he missed it as far as he did.
30:36Cause that's pretty uncharacteristic for him.
30:38So again, I find that tough to hold.
30:41I don't want to say don't hold it against him.
30:42Like he missed the kick and that's going to happen.
30:44And you want to be able to handle it.
30:47But I just think, you know, he hit a, came back, hit a 51 yarder.
30:51And it still seems like he got all six live kicks in the joint practices.
30:55He got two of the three field goals today in both extra points.
30:58They were not alternating like they were last week.
31:01It was mostly on him.
31:03I do feel like it is leaning towards Andre Borgales ultimately being the kicker.
31:08Yeah.
31:08I think he's been their guy all along.
31:10And I just, it's, it's a credit to, to John Parker Romo to, to, to really keep himself in
31:14the conversation as long as he had.
31:15And, you know, we've seen teams like carry two kickers on the practice or carry a kicker
31:19on the practice squad.
31:21So if they could sneak them onto the practice squad, I wouldn't be against that.
31:24And so I think, but I think Borgales is going to be the kicker.
31:29Anything else from the game before we wrap it up here?
31:31I think we got to everything.
31:32Carlton Davis played two snaps, had a pass breakup.
31:34That's good.
31:35Marcus Jones had a good punt return early in the game.
31:38Like he, he, he reminded everyone I'm, I'm the guy there and we'll see how, we'll see
31:42if he's improved at all on defense with the new coaching staff and the new defense.
31:45But that's where he's going to make his impact is in the return game.
31:48And like the coverage overall, other than that one, uh, busted recur return, uh, late
31:54in the game, like the overall, the special teams coverage has been, it feels like they're,
31:57they're applying for the best season in a long time.
32:00We've been dealing with sloppy special teams for years now, Barth.
32:03And like, it feels like Springer, uh, second year he's got his units and it feels like he's
32:08got them, you know, he's got them cooking a little bit.
32:11It looks, it looks pretty good on special teams.
32:13They're going to need special teams to be an asset without a doubt.
32:15And so far, things like that, it looks like the unit looks like it's an asset.
32:19So there you go.
32:21Um, well that, that's it for us on the recap.
32:24We both have some written stuff on 98, five, the sports hub.com.
32:26There's more to come.
32:27I will have a roster projection either tomorrow or Monday, depending on how much work I can
32:31get done tonight.
32:32I'm also going to do it.
32:33It's it's, it's at large roster spot season.
32:37So that annual thing that I write, if you don't know what that is, it's like, it's real
32:41nerd ship.
32:42It really is.
32:43It's one of the nerdier things that I write.
32:44Like if you do, when you look at putting a roster together, it's not just your 53 best
32:50players, because for instance, like your backup quarterback, is he one of your 53 best players,
32:54but you're going to keep a backup quarterback, right?
32:56You're going to keep at least three running backs, at least four wide receivers, at least
32:59two tight ends.
33:00So there's, and then you might have some guy like spots that go over.
33:04Maybe you have four in the Patriots.
33:05Don't, but maybe a four running backs that are locks that takes a spot up.
33:08So at the end of the day, like there's only 17 spots that can be won by the best player
33:14possible, regardless of position.
33:15And those get cut into by like, if you have a Matthew Slater type, or again, if you have
33:19maybe three quarterbacks you're keeping or whatever, I think last year, the number was
33:23nine.
33:23I think it was like 18 players for nine spots or something.
33:27So anyway, I calculate that for the Patriots every year.
33:29I, the, the number of players on the bubble is large.
33:34I don't know what the bubble number is going to be.
33:36I think it's going to be a little bit bigger than usual because they have less core special
33:38teamers than usual.
33:40Um, but anyway, so I'll have, I'll have roster projection, all of that.
33:44Fair warning, Barth.
33:45I'm tweeting Charlie Kelly in the mail room.
33:47When you, when you post that article, the at large roster spots, that is, well, you mean
33:51it, but people forget Pepe Sylvia was a real person.
33:55So he was actually onto something there.
33:57I'm just saying, um, you have, you have anything coming this week?
34:02Uh, nothing in particular this week.
34:04I got to, I got my ups and downs at nine, eight, five, the sports hub.com.
34:07So check that out.
34:08So check that out.
34:09And then we'll have another pod probably Wednesday, um, to look ahead to Thursday's finale, quick
34:15turnaround Thursday, preseason finale against the giants.
34:18In the meantime, subscribe to sports hub on YouTube to get these podcasts and a ton of sports
34:23of content, Patriots and otherwise Patriots hub podcast, wherever you get your podcast.
34:27And again, check us out at 98, five, the sports hub.com until the next one formats off.
34:31I'm Alex Barth.
34:32Thanks for tuning in and we will talk to you next time.