The Hidden Thought Habits Holding Business Owners Back | Amy Kemp - video Dailymotion

Workforce Alchemy

What if the thought habits holding back your business growth are the ones you don't even realize you have? Leadership coach Amy Kemp reveals how subconscious thinking patterns affect CEO decision-making, productivity, employee relationships, and business success.  In this episode of The Workforce Alchemy Show, host Mason Duchatschek interviews Amy Kemp, CEO of Amy Kemp Inc., certified Habit Finder coach, and author of "I See You: A Guide for Women to Make More, Have More, and Be More Without More Work."  Discover why working harder isn't always the solution to leadership challenges and how changing your thinking can help you achieve better results without sacrificing more time and energy.  YOU'LL DISCOVER: • How subconscious thought habits influence leadership and business growth • Why overthinking can make executives defensive about feedback • How to recognize and interrupt catastrophic thinking • Why distractions can prevent leaders from recognizing employee concerns • How replacing "I have to" with "I get to" can change your approach to work • Why your identity influences the decisions and opportunities you consider • How flexible structure can improve productivity without creating unnecessary pressure • Why lasting leadership development starts with changing how you think  FREE LEADERSHIP THINKING ASSESSMENT: Take Amy Kemp's free Habit Finder assessment to identify subconscious thought patterns that may be creating resistance in your business and leadership.  https://amykemp.com/  AMY KEMP'S BOOK: "I See You: A Guide for Women to Make More, Have More, and Be More Without More Work"  CONNECT WITH WORKFORCE ALCHEMY: Website: https://workforcealchemy.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@WorkforceAlchemist Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ReverseRiskConsulting Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/workforcealchemy/ X: https://x.com/WorkAlchemist  CONNECT WITH MASON DUCHATSCHEK: Website: https://masonduchatschek.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/masonduchatschek/  WORKFORCE ALCHEMY MAGAZINE: https://workforcealchemymagazine.com/  LISTEN AND SUBSCRIBE: https://shows.acast.com/themasonduchatschekshow  Subscribe to The Workforce Alchemy Show for conversations with business leaders, authors, and experts about leadership development, employee engagement, business growth, and workforce performance.  #LeadershipDevelopment #BusinessGrowth #AmyKemp

Transcript

00:05Welcome to the Mason Dukachek Show, presented by WorkforceAlchemy.com, where business leaders

00:12discover practical ways to select, engage, and retain their best employees.

00:16Today's guest, Amy Kemp, is the owner and CEO of Amy Kemp Incorporated, a strategic

00:22coach, certified habit finder coach, and author of I See You, a guide for women to make more,

00:29have more, and be more without more work.

00:32She helps leaders understand how deeply thought habits shape their work, boundaries, money,

00:38energy, and leadership results.

00:40Amy has led hundreds of women business leaders through her Encounter Leadership experience

00:45and has worked with leaders one-on-one and inside leadership teams.

00:50Today, we're talking about how to grow without grinding yourself down.

00:53Amy, welcome to the show.

00:54Thank you for having me.

00:56So, you work with leaders in what you call thought habits.

00:59What is a thought habit, and how can it quietly shape a leader's results before they even realize

01:05it?

01:05Yeah, I think it's an important distinction between a thought habit and a habit, a behavioral

01:10habit, something that you see externally.

01:13Thought habits are all happening below the surface at the subconscious level.

01:17So, our brains and our bodies are hardwired to survive.

01:21That's just how we're made.

01:22And so, when you repeat a thought that helps you in some way or is beneficial in some way

01:29or helps you survive in your brain's perspective, it creates a groove in your brain.

01:34And those grooves over time, when you travel them frequently enough, create deeper and deeper

01:39grooves.

01:39Some of these habits of thinking, these subconscious habits of thinking are really beneficial, and

01:46they're running below the surface all the time, just helping you get your work done, connect

01:51with people, create plans for the future.

01:54Others are creating a great deal of resistance.

01:57And so, the work I do both kind of excavates and helps you to see what those habits are, to

02:03understand them, to put language to them, but also to let go of the ones that aren't serving

02:08you anymore or that are creating the resistance toward the growth that you want.

02:12So, what's the difference between, you mentioned subconscious, like I have very conscious thought

02:17habits.

02:18Like, if I run into adversity, one of the thought habits that I have, how did you say, ingrained

02:23into your system is, I'm built for this, let's go.

02:27That's not a subconscious thought for me.

02:29And that is a habit that I have trained myself, hey, adversity strikes, I'm built for this,

02:34let's go.

02:34Instinct at this point.

02:36What's the difference between, in your opinion, the subconscious thought habits and the conscious

02:41thought habits?

02:42And how can you maybe create conscious thought habits if they serve you and avoid them if

02:48they don't?

02:48Yeah.

02:49Let me give you an example.

02:50I'll give you one from today.

02:53Because I'm, even though this is my work, of course, we're always doing the work that

02:57we need the most.

02:58There's a habit of thinking in one area of the assessment tool I use that is the area

03:04of mental creation.

03:05These are the thought habits that show up when we are making plans for the future, dreaming,

03:12visualizing what we want to create.

03:14So, as a business owner, of course, I have outcomes, revenue goals, things that I'm imagining

03:20and want to create.

03:22And my brain has high risk.

03:25I know from my assessment results of swinging between fantasy and catastrophe in this one

03:32habit of thinking.

03:33So, that's playing out today in that this is the time of the year when I fill one of my

03:40offerings, my group coaching offering that is a major revenue driver for my entire year.

03:46And my brain can get an email, let's say, from someone who, you know, is not able to move

03:53forward at this time, who I really, in my head, had sort of imagined and visualized was

03:58going to be a yes.

03:59And this just happened today, right?

04:01There are so many moments like that in business ownership where the thing you expected doesn't

04:06happen or it doesn't happen in the quantity that you expected or whatever.

04:09My brain is at high risk in that moment of spiraling toward catastrophe and playing out.

04:16I mean, I'll get to, we're selling our house and I'm living on the street in two seconds,

04:22you know, if I, which is so, it's not a logical response, right?

04:26It's not going to happen.

04:27But, and I've been running businesses for 25 years.

04:30So, what I've learned about my habits of thinking is that the same gift that allows me to visualize

04:36and see what it is that I want to create also has a shadow side that can take me down

04:41this

04:43catastrophizing road and not serve me.

04:45And so, with subconscious habits of thinking, part of it is just saying like, oh, there's

04:50that habit again.

04:51You know, I got the email.

04:52I felt disappointed.

04:54I was really like bummed.

04:56Just feeling like, oh, I really wanted to work with that person.

04:59But quickly, when my brain started to spiral, even out loud to myself, I was, I just said

05:05like, there it is.

05:07There's the habit of thinking.

05:08Like, catch it, move it back, and then get to work on the tiny millimeter step that can

05:14actually create the client or the result that I want, right?

05:17So, I can redirect and kind of retrain my brain.

05:21That happens because I've been working at this for a long time.

05:25That happens less frequently and with less intensity, and I catch it faster than I used

05:31to.

05:31But I could really get myself into a spin.

05:34I mean, easily and quickly in the past for days sometimes or weeks where I would be stuck

05:41and then kind of paralyzed with fear.

05:44So, it sounds like to me, what you're telling me is you have developed the ability to, number

05:47one, recognize this pattern.

05:49Two, it sounds like you put in some guardrails on either side of that.

05:53If it spirals towards catastrophe, you recognize, hey, this is a guardrail for me.

05:58This is, I'm imagining the worst case scenario.

06:01And I'm also willing to bet that you probably have the guardrail on the other side so that

06:05you don't go into overly optimistic and unrealistic expectations on the other end.

06:10So, the safe, productive spot is probably somewhere in the middle, I'm guessing.

06:14But you're the expert on that.

06:15Am I understanding this correctly?

06:17It's not harmful or, quote unquote, bad to imagine a preferred future.

06:23That's not a bad thing.

06:24If you go there, you do that, maybe you even receive an inspired idea, and then you come

06:30back to your desk and you actually put it into action.

06:33It's also not always bad to go to the worst case scenario because sometimes you do need to

06:39be thinking, hmm, I don't want that to happen.

06:41And so, then you come back to your desk and you put those steps into place that prevent

06:46it.

06:47The problem is when you're just living off in these made-up scenarios in your head, and you're

06:53not actually taking the millimeter steps that create your outcome.

06:58I'll give you another example.

07:00I have a client right now who's working on a pretty transformational change in the way that

07:05she runs her business.

07:06It's an established business.

07:08She has loyal clientele, but the whole structure of it kind of needs to change to better serve

07:14the client.

07:14So, she's needing to communicate this change, which includes a change in the way that she

07:20charges her clients, the pricing, the packages, all of that.

07:23And when I talked to her today, she not only was imagining what her clients were going to

07:28say that was negative in response to this, but she was already creating things in response

07:34to what they were saying.

07:35She had eight layers of this happening.

07:37And I said, well, why don't we just put the thing out into the world, get real-time feedback

07:43from the actual clients if we need to make adjustments upon receiving that feedback we

07:49do.

07:49But we can't just be living in these made-up conversations that aren't really happening,

07:54you know?

07:55And it's all wrapped up in her head instead of actually moving it forward.

07:59And it's scary.

08:01You know, it's scary to disrupt the flow of your business that you depend on.

08:05It's interesting when you talk about things like that, because I've had a couple of podcast

08:09guests on.

08:10John Malora made a comment to me that really stuck.

08:12He said, he said, one test is more valuable than a thousand opinions.

08:16I had a gentleman on, John Maxim from Viral App Launch.

08:21He's a CEO.

08:21And he said, I don't even care about my own opinion.

08:23I care what the data says.

08:26And what I hear you talking about is someone who is treating their own opinion as if it's

08:30fact and it's already happened in an unproductive way.

08:33And I can see where less than any circumstances would be a result.

08:38So how do you know when a leader's problem is a thought habit problem?

08:41Well, partially the tool that I use is called the Habit Finder.

08:45It is an actual measurement of your subconscious habits of thinking.

08:49So it gives you sort of a snapshot of what's going on, what's creating resistance and where

08:55those things are.

08:56The first time that I took it, Mason, I was off put would be a nice way to say it.

09:00I just thought at that time I was leading a very large sales team of about a thousand

09:06people, things were going well.

09:08And it said some things that I just found to be a little like disconcerting.

09:14Once I walked through it with the person who asked me to take it, I couldn't unsee it.

09:20You know, when you see something and then and then all of a sudden you're just it's everywhere.

09:24One of the measurements that I see popping up right now, particularly in leaders frequently,

09:30is this measurement.

09:31It's toward obsessive.

09:33So it's telling me that my clients or the people who are taking the assessment are thinking

09:40and thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking and thinking so much right now.

09:44And part of that is just the influx of information and the pace at which we're receiving it.

09:50Like we're all in this kind of manic state of thinking.

09:54There are some risks with that.

09:55There are benefits, right?

09:57You can get a lot done.

09:58You can solve problems.

09:59You can, you know, people who are obsessive tend to come up with really great ideas because

10:04they're always thinking, you know, they're thinking and thinking.

10:06There are a few risks.

10:08One of them is that we get really attached to our ideas when we think that much about them.

10:13Feedback about our ideas feels very personal and painful.

10:18We get really defensive.

10:19We get very, very attached to our opinions about things.

10:24And I see that happening collectively.

10:26Just I'm not, I don't have an opinion.

10:29I actually am my opinion.

10:31Like it's, if you criticize my opinion, you are criticizing me or my idea.

10:37The gap between our understanding of who we are and then that external thing, an idea

10:43or a thought is closing.

10:45It's dangerous when you get there because we can't have candid conversations about things

10:51that need to change in the workplace or in our lives.

10:53So an example of this, my husband works, he's an assistant principal at our high school

10:58locally.

10:59And he has like an opinion about the way the buses should be dropping kids off in the morning

11:06because there was like an issue where cars were dropping off kids at the same time.

11:10And he had been thinking about this for months, you know, just upset about the way it was being

11:16done.

11:16It wasn't safe.

11:17He had a lot of thinking and thinking and thinking.

11:19So imagine he walks into the, to the boardroom for the leadership team meeting and he has an

11:25idea about how that should change.

11:26When you're in this unhealthy habit of thinking, it's as if the idea is pressed against his

11:32chest and he and his six foot five inch body climbs up onto the boardroom table, sits down

11:39and then shares it.

11:40And when people start to say, well, right, but if you change it, then the traffic is going

11:45to be backed up on North street.

11:47And what about this?

11:48And what about, you know, it's like they're attacking him.

11:51You know, he's, is the idea he's on the table.

11:54The healthy version of that same habit of thinking when you're not operating in the obsessive,

11:59but you're just using your brain in a healthy way is that you walk in the ideas in your backpack,

12:04you sit down, you pull it out, you put the idea in the middle of the table, people can

12:09poke at it and you can poke at it and you're, it doesn't matter, right?

12:13You can let that happen.

12:14And so these habits of thinking show up in spaces like that at work all the time where

12:19we're, we're unable to have real conversations about things because people are so attached

12:24to their performance and their ideas.

12:26It's funny you say that because I do have a pretty exhaustive background and experience

12:30with assessment tools and I'm a big fan of most of them when used appropriately.

12:35Yeah.

12:35And it's funny when you talk about how you felt it was, I don't know what the word you,

12:40it wasn't cringeworthy you used when you saw some of your things, but rarely have I ever

12:45seen someone goes, go, wow, this says I'm, I'm more awesome than I thought.

12:50Like people just, people don't go like, oh, this, this says I'm so much better than I, but

12:54it's all about expectations and they have this expectation.

12:57And what I try to convey to a lot of these folks is if you're successful in your career

13:01already and you're doing a good job right now and you get some areas that are opportunities

13:07for improvement, you don't freak out about that.

13:09You don't like get defensive about it.

13:11Like that's great.

13:12If you're already doing a good job, this is what separates you from being good and amazing

13:16or good and great.

13:17And a few little adjustments here or there or the right tools, training and support built

13:21around where you might have some opportunities for improvement can make all the difference in

13:26the world, but you got to know where they are.

13:28And it sounds like what you're talking about is a very introspective tool that allows people

13:32to get a third party view that's unbiased.

13:36Say, hey, here's what you got.

13:37And what I think is interesting about at least what I'm hearing and what I understand this

13:41conversation to be is you're saying to people, hey, what you have may be a liability in one

13:46context, obsessive, and it may be an asset in another.

13:49And you just need to be aware of the circumstances you're in and how to use the habits that you

13:55have and the gifts that you have.

13:57What are you mentioned obsessive?

13:59What are some of the other habits that might be on this assessment that you've talked about?

14:05Let me also add on to what you just said around assessments and understanding yourself,

14:10especially if you're a leader.

14:11I too, particularly in my role in sales leadership, did every tool, every, you know, we were well

14:19assessed.

14:20We took all of them and I found them to be fascinating.

14:24A distinction about this tool is that it's not measuring characteristics or personality.

14:28It's measuring risk.

14:30So it's telling you not who you are or what you're like or what you're bad at.

14:34It's telling you your brain has high risk of falling into this pattern of thinking.

14:38So if you think about the game, the old game, chutes and ladders, if you land on this square,

14:44it's very likely your brain is going to slide down that slide because it's done it so many

14:48times.

14:49So when you have something that shows on the assessment that you're high risk, it doesn't

14:54mean you always go down the slide.

14:55It just means, ooh, be aware you're at high risk of falling down that slide.

15:01My, this is another, this is tied to the obsessive, but I wanted to close that out.

15:06So the other risk around that particular habit of thinking is a very strong need to be right.

15:11I really have this one and it will get me in silly things even.

15:16So right now we're making some decisions about our youngest child and his athletic career.

15:23You know, do we invest in this kind of a team or do we invest in this kind of training

15:28or

15:28do we just keep him in this?

15:30And, you know, we're kind of, and I have some really strong feelings about what I think

15:34is right about that.

15:36And it's very difficult.

15:38I find myself getting really riled up when someone challenges that like internally, I'm

15:45not acting on it necessarily, but I'm able to recognize like, there's that feeling.

15:50I am very attached to my way is being right.

15:54And when someone challenges it or my husband has a different perspective or asks a question

15:59about it, I can get kind of punchy if I'm not really aware of that risk.

16:04And if I, but I do have a choice in the moment to respond out of the habit or to

16:10respond in

16:11a way that's beneficial for our child that we're parenting, you know?

16:14So I just think that's important for people to recognize.

16:17Also, the more you think, the more you get attached to your ideas, the more difficult

16:21it is when someone challenges them.

16:24So, so, and it's funny because I, I am thinking about how, what you're talking about applies

16:29to me and I'm kind of the opposite.

16:31I don't have to be right at all.

16:33I just want the outcome.

16:34And I recognize that there are a whole bunch of different ways to get to the outcome.

16:38Now I may be more interested in the better, faster, cheaper way than the long, hard,

16:43expensive way.

16:43But the bottom line is if, if I have the capacity in terms of resources, time, money,

16:48what not to get the outcome, whether it's hard or easy, you know, my main focus is I

16:53want the outcome.

16:54So I'm, I, I am very opposite of you in that capacity and that I just want to get it.

16:58And I recognize a bunch of different ways and whatever way we can do it, that works,

17:03get done time, time frame.

17:04I'm not going to waste any time discussing.

17:07In a lot of cases, I can actually get an outcome in the time that some people would sit

17:11there debating and discussing what to do.

17:13So what are some, you mentioned obsessive.

17:15What are some of the other traits or characteristics?

17:18That's not the word you're using, the risks.

17:20Yeah.

17:21That what are some of the other ones that are there that people might not think of or

17:26know?

17:26I'm very curious to know what they might do.

17:28What I'm seeing a lot right now is a measurement in the connection section.

17:32So this is about, these are your habits of thinking that show up when you're connecting

17:36with people.

17:37You meet someone, a prospective client, or you're talking with a coworker or a leader

17:42in your company, but you are attempting to make a relational connection that's beneficial

17:48for both people.

17:49And this one that's showing up right now is a measurement that's kind of toward preoccupied

17:54where our brains are off somewhere else and not fully present in the conversation we're

18:01having.

18:01And this did not used to show up.

18:04It's been showing up so much in the last five years, probably.

18:08I just see it so frequently.

18:10I just think, again, it's like the devices and the clicks and the dings and all of that

18:15where we're not fully present and not noticing the people around us enough.

18:23I could totally see that.

18:25I could see that being a reflection of how our culture has shifted.

18:29When we're constantly being bombarded with stimulus, it says, pay attention to this, pay

18:34attention to that.

18:36And sometimes it's hard to let go of that stuff and it requires a conscientious choice.

18:41So I could see where knowing something like that is a risk for you would be helpful so

18:45that you can make the decision when you're interacting with somebody, like I'm going to

18:48make the conscientious choice to tune out the noise and focus on this present moment because

18:53it's important.

18:54What are some of the other ones?

18:56Another thing about that measurement that I often ask people is, are you more at risk

19:01of doing this with your coworker or your companion?

19:05And what's more frightening to me is that I would show up distracted or not fully present

19:11for the people that are most important in my life outside of work while I'm giving my best

19:16energy and attention to the people in my work.

19:19Now I want both, but I don't want to give all of that to the people at work and then

19:24come home and have nothing left either.

19:26So sometimes I'm challenging people to think about it in two boxes, kind of like you may

19:32be showing up in your best, most conscious way at work in this way, but then at home you're

19:39not present and you're showing up really kind of absent-minded and not focused and are noticing

19:43the people in your house.

19:45So that's a, that's a challenge too.

19:47Or for leaders, sometimes this happens where some of our best information as leaders comes

19:54in just like, but that was a weird response or that person seems a little off or they're

20:00behaving differently than usual.

20:02And it's not like big things that happen.

20:05It's just these little like, Ooh, that didn't, I don't know.

20:08Something was, if you are distracted and not paying attention, you can miss some of the

20:13most important information about what's really happening in your workplace, you know, just

20:18in those social interactions even right.

20:21Where you're just like, Ooh, that person seems a little off or I'm noticing there's tension

20:26between these two people or those types of things.

20:29So I think there's just a cost to being distracted that we're not measuring necessarily.

20:35So any, any other particular areas that are worth discussing?

20:41Another one that I find to be fascinating is one that is a risk toward obligation.

20:48It's the energy of have to, need to, and should, and it's a very heavy energy.

20:55It's even when I say it, like my shoulders sort of slump, you know, and the energy of

21:01have to, need to, and should often gets carried over, not just at work, but it gets home to

21:07where it's, Oh, I have to take the garbage out.

21:10I need to make that appointment.

21:11Oh, I should be going to the gym.

21:13You know, it, it, it shows up at work.

21:15It shows up at home.

21:17It shows up everywhere because it's just this deeply ingrained habit.

21:20And I always will describe it like it takes effort and energy to do your work, whatever

21:25your work is.

21:26So imagine it's like climbing a mountain.

21:28It takes an amount of energy to do that.

21:30This habit of thinking is like strapping on a hundred pound backpack and making the same

21:35climb.

21:36You're going to make the climb either way, but you're adding weight to it with this habit

21:41of thinking.

21:41You're, you're basically throwing energy out the door and not using it for its best

21:46purpose.

21:47So when we work on this habit of thinking, we do a lot of disruption, like, Oh, there it

21:52was.

21:53I am replacing it with, I want to, I get to, I choose to more empowered words.

21:59Also just using physical, you interrupt subconscious habits of thinking through physical movement.

22:05So this morning when I was spiraling into my catastrophe briefly, I just got up and went

22:12for a walk.

22:12Like I walked outside of my house.

22:14I walked around my yard.

22:15I watered a flower, came back.

22:17I was done.

22:18It was over.

22:18I couldn't even remember what, what had happened.

22:20Like I, I was through it.

22:22So physical movement.

22:23So you can disrupt a habit of thinking by even making like a chopping motion with your hand,

22:28like you have an ax and you're hitting your other hand where you say, no, I get to,

22:32like, I choose to do that.

22:34I want to do that.

22:36And you, you disrupt the habit of thinking.

22:39The other, you can disrupt it with music.

22:41That's another way we can re change and catch our brains.

22:45And then the other way is through talking out loud to ourselves.

22:49So you can bring a subconscious habit of thinking to the surface and have a fighting chance against

22:55it when you talk out loud to yourself.

22:57So just saying like, nope, I get to and correcting yourself when you even think it in your head.

23:02It's really powerful.

23:04And you'll experience almost an immediate shift in the amount of energy you have toward

23:09your work or toward the thing you're trying to create or whatever it is that's dragging

23:13you down.

23:14It's funny how you can, when you're aware of it first, step one, I guess, as I'm, I'm

23:19assuming based on this conversation that step one is just recognizing where these issues

23:23or challenges exist.

23:25And then two, preparing a way to handle them when you recognize that pattern popping up

23:29and then having a way to maximize it when it's for good and minimize it if it's going

23:34to send you, derail you for lack of better explanation.

23:37Am I getting this right?

23:38Absolutely.

23:39I also don't think any kind of lasting transformational change happens in isolation.

23:44I don't think we see ourselves very clearly.

23:47And it mostly happens in the context of a relationship.

23:50And I, I've started adding with a human being, not a computer, because I'm having a lot of

23:57people talk to me about how they're using AI, you know, sort of as their sounding board,

24:02which I think in a strategic sense, I do the same thing.

24:06This is more about this transformational change that's happening within you.

24:11I think that happens in the context of a human to human relationship.

24:14If you want it to be lasting.

24:16I'm curious to see what, what I would love to look at your assessment offline.

24:20I'm happy to look at this because it fascinates me, but I can just think of subconscious patterns

24:25and things I'm aware of in just in general without an assessment.

24:28But I've trained myself like when adversity hits, I was built for this.

24:33I'm ready.

24:33Let's go.

24:34That's, that's me talking to myself as far as like you described.

24:38You've chosen that.

24:39Yeah.

24:39Like you've chosen that habit of thinking.

24:42Yeah.

24:42And if a problem comes up where people might tend to typically, oh my gosh, this could be

24:47a disaster.

24:48How's this going to affect us?

24:50Oh, and they start thinking about all the bad things.

24:51I've conditioned myself to say, what's good about this problem?

24:54What's not perfect yet?

24:55And how can I use this?

24:57Yep.

24:58How can this help me?

24:59And all of a sudden it shifts the focus of my brain towards positive things.

25:02And that's stuff I learned in Tony Robbins' book, Awake and Giant Within.

25:05But it works for me to be aware of it and to say, hey, how can I shift my focus

25:10and change

25:11my thinking in a positive way so that it empowers me versus disempowers me?

25:15Can I ask you a question about that too?

25:17Because we spend a lot of time in business trying to focus on skills.

25:23And I mean, do you think if you added up the impact of that one shift in your life, that

25:29one habit of thinking that you created, right?

25:32You created a groove that when this happens, this is my response, has impacted more about

25:38your success than any other, right?

25:40Like than any system or any change in skill or any amount of hours that you worked.

25:46You know what?

25:46I will give you a real example.

25:48Hang on.

25:48I wouldn't expect it.

25:49I wrote a book maybe, I don't know, 10 years ago, something like that called Inclusive

25:53Leadership.

25:54And we were, I was in the Missouri Army National Guard and our unit was the first unit in the

25:59state activated for emergency flood duty.

26:02Mississippi River, 1993, it was a great flood in 1993.

26:05It was washing towns off the map, obliterating them up and down the Mississippi River.

26:11And my unit was the first unit activated in the state.

26:13And I can tell you on numerous occasions, I was in, I was sent to St.

26:16Genevieve, Missouri, and we held, we were one of the few communities that beat the river.

26:21And I was around wonderful community leaders, military leaders, political leaders, all came

26:27together in an amazing way, which is why I wrote the book, because it was a textbook example

26:32of how a team can work together to accomplish amazing things.

26:36And I can tell you that, well, I'll give you one example.

26:39We were trying to get sandbags to the levee and we were using the big, huge army truck

26:43to do it.

26:44And we got, got a flat tire and the water's rising an inch an hour.

26:47People starting to panic, legit reason for panic.

26:50Like we don't have the means to get the sandbags from the staging area to, to those, to the levee.

26:57And it would be easy to freak out and go, oh, we're screwed.

27:00Like, what are we going to do?

27:01What are we going to do now?

27:03Well, actually instead of what it was, it was, do we, you could have start, we could

27:07have started with the questions towards, we need to evacuate.

27:10We need to alert everyone else to get them out of here.

27:13That wasn't what we thought, but how can we use this?

27:16How is this good for us?

27:17What's not perfect yet?

27:18How else could we accomplish this better or faster?

27:21Because sometimes good gets in the way of great.

27:23What we were doing was a good solution.

27:25We were using the big trucks to get, but we only had a couple of them, but using, came up

27:30with

27:30well, we could use pickups.

27:31This is a small rural community about an hour South of St. Louis called the mayor.

27:35So, Hey, put out the word.

27:36Cause we didn't have cell phones and all that fancy stuff.

27:38Really?

27:39Then I mean, I guess technically they had to like the bag phones or whatever, but they

27:42put the message out through the community.

27:43Hey, if you got a pickup truck, get it up to the staging area on the North side.

27:46We need to help getting sandbags to the levee.

27:49And it turned out we did more, better and faster work with the pickup trucks, getting them

27:55up.

27:56Cause we could get them right up on the levee.

27:57So it's less man, manual labor.

27:59It required less resources.

28:01We could have more trucks so we could get more sandbags and more places easier with

28:04less.

28:05That was a blessing in disguise, but it was about when it first happened, it would have

28:10been easy to have the pattern of, Oh, we're screwed.

28:12What let's evacuate and panic.

28:14But it was no, the thought pattern, what the thought habit was what's good about this

28:18problem.

28:19How could we utilize this to, or what better ways exist?

28:22And we shifted the thinking and, and you can go to St.

28:25Genevieve, Missouri now.

28:27And there are, are there signage with posts that show here's where the water level was

28:32on main street.

28:32And you look way up and you're like, Oh my gosh, I would be underwater right now.

28:37But we held that town because of things like that.

28:39Absolutely.

28:40Yeah.

28:40I just, I always say to leaders, this is the most important stuff you can work on.

28:46You know, there are a lot of external changes you can make in a company or in a business

28:50or in an organization.

28:51The most important changes you can make are the ones in you as the leader and the way that

28:56you think, because that trickle down.

28:59Oh my gosh.

29:00I was just talking to a client today who's had some tumultuous leadership changes in their

29:05organization.

29:06And we were talking about how the work she has always loved, what she does, the experience

29:12of the work has changed drastically based on who her leader was and how they thought

29:17and interacted with people.

29:18And so I'm thinking, wow.

29:20And she took that home with her every day.

29:22Like the impact of the way a leader thinks is so tremendously large.

29:27And so working on these things as a leader is absolutely some of the most vital work you

29:32can do.

29:32So in your book, I See You, you focus on making more, having more and being more without more

29:39work.

29:39What is the first belief that a high performing leader usually has to challenge before that

29:44becomes possible?

29:45It's interesting.

29:47I kind of faced a pivotal moment when this all came to a head where I realized the solution

29:57wasn't in working harder.

29:58So up to the point where I had this sort of turning point moment, hard work had sort of

30:04been my survival mechanism.

30:05I mean, I could outwork anyone.

30:07Like I'm really a good worker.

30:09I love to work, right?

30:10I'm going to put my nose to the grindstone and get stuff done.

30:13And so I had worked and worked and worked and gotten myself to a certain place professionally

30:18that most people would have said was awesome.

30:20You know, they would, I was kind of at the top of the mountain, actually.

30:23We had a meeting with our financial advisor.

30:26I filled out all the forms and paperwork about where we are.

30:29She said, you're doing a great job managing your money.

30:33You're not overspending, you know, but there's just one problem.

30:37If you want to achieve the goals that you have set here in this form that you filled out.

30:41And then she leaned forward on this stack of papers on her desk and she said, you're

30:46not making enough money.

30:47And in that moment, it was sort of a moment like your moment with the flat tire in that

30:52I looked around the room.

30:54My husband is in education and should be and will be through his career trajectory.

31:00It's he's so good at it.

31:01It's just what he's supposed to do.

31:02Right.

31:03And the only way he's making more is by getting older.

31:05That's established.

31:06Right.

31:07So there's that.

31:08And there's no one else in the room.

31:09And so I'm deeply aware that this is mine to kind of figure out.

31:15I'm also making a choice.

31:16Do I change the goals?

31:18You know, do we not pay for college for our three kids?

31:21Do we not like and those are real choices that we could make.

31:24But something in me was just like, no, I'm not changing the goal.

31:28It was something resolute inside of me that those were our values and things that we wanted

31:33to do and that I was going to figure it out.

31:36I also knew at that time, all my kids, I call it the Uber era of parenting.

31:41Everybody's in something and nobody drives.

31:43So you're just driving kids everywhere.

31:46And this is, you know, life is different today.

31:48But at that time, I knew I couldn't work any more hours.

31:52They're just I wasn't going to miss the things that they were doing at that time.

31:56I needed to be available in the evenings for their activities and something needed to change,

32:01which actually led me to the realization that it wasn't something that needed to change.

32:05It was someone that needed to change.

32:07And that was me.

32:08I needed to change the way I was thinking.

32:10I needed to change a lot of belief systems that were at the core of how I was operating.

32:15And I learned a really valuable lesson, which is that you can't outwork your thought habits.

32:20You can't.

32:21I couldn't outwork this one.

32:23And working more hours wasn't going to solve the problem.

32:26And it wasn't actually even available to me.

32:29I didn't.

32:29I couldn't.

32:30I would have.

32:30Yeah, I couldn't.

32:31And so that core message has kind of been the through line of all of my work,

32:37where I had to unearth some of these habits of thinking that were keeping me from what I was really

32:43capable of

32:43and really change me in order to get a different outcome.

32:47And I think you're still doing that, right?

32:50We're still transforming always.

32:51It's interesting you say that.

32:53And I've, like in the last week or two, just had some very meaningful, deep conversations with some very, very

33:00smart people.

33:00And it's becoming apparent to me how important identity is, how people see themselves,

33:06and how identity dictates what choices and what options even exist for people.

33:13Brian Wright, he's a, he co-authored a book with me a few months ago called Built Right.

33:18And he was a, he's a championship coach, Hall of Fame coach in Missouri.

33:21And he was talking about things like, you know, when it comes to identity, he's like, hey, I could want

33:27a Milky Way.

33:28And I flew back from Alaska last week.

33:31So I spent a lot of time in the airports and you can spend $3.75 at an airport for

33:35a candy bar.

33:36He's like, I may want to, oh, I will just steal that.

33:38Well, that's, if your identity is, I'm not a thief, that's not even an option for you.

33:43That's interesting.

33:44So you're saying in that moment, settling for less wasn't an option because I had something in the framework of

33:52my identity that wasn't aligned with that.

33:54Correct.

33:55It wouldn't even make it a, it's not even an option or a consideration because that's not who I am.

33:58Okay.

33:59I see.

33:59Yeah, that's probably true.

34:01I'm not sure how I came to that, but it's probably true.

34:05I'm glad I did.

34:07Well, I mean, you know, I'm glad.

34:09It's the same thing if you talk about an elite athlete, you see Josh Kerr just once set, broke the

34:15world record in the mile and it's incredible.

34:18But when Josh Kerr goes to a gas station, which I'm sure he does a couple of times a week

34:23and he sees cigarettes for sale, that's not even an option for him because that's not aligned with his identity

34:28or who he is.

34:29It's not a choice.

34:30It's not even a possibility.

34:32That's interesting.

34:33I was just listening to a podcast about cheating and how they're having all of these issues with kids cheating

34:39in college, especially with AI and how the host said, I would not do that.

34:46And the other person said, why?

34:48And she said, that's not who I am.

34:51That's what I'm getting at.

34:52Right.

34:52And it's exactly what you're saying, right?

34:54It's not who I am.

34:55I would not do that because it's, I wouldn't even, it wouldn't even occur to me.

34:59And, and, and I think when we're sitting here talking about thought habits, I think that plays a huge role

35:05in that.

35:07And I think the nice part about identity is identity can change.

35:09Sure.

35:11So can habits of thinking for sure.

35:13Yeah.

35:13They're not permanent.

35:15And if I can, if I didn't consider myself an athlete before, but, and I find myself 40, 50 pounds

35:22overweight and I just decide to make a change, you know what?

35:24I'm going to start cycling.

35:26I'm going to start running.

35:27I'm going to start swimming.

35:28I'm going to eat right.

35:29Then I can change my habits.

35:30I can change my thinking.

35:32I can change my identity.

35:33Those are, that's within my power to do that.

35:35But some people have to wait until they get 30 or 40 pounds overweight and they're unhealthy to recognize they

35:40have a need for change.

35:41I'm what I'm willing to bet is what you're talking about here, recognizing some of your thought habits.

35:46You can get a headstart on that and find out early before you, for lack of a word, degenerate into

35:5140 or 50 pounds overweight and out of shape.

35:53And you can, can, can shift that sooner rather than later and avoid the pain and go straight for the

36:01happiness that is within your reach with just a few adjustments in your thinking and your actions.

36:05Yeah, absolutely.

36:06So I know you talk about structure as something that can create freedom.

36:10What is one structure leaders often resist at first, but later realize they desperately need it?

36:16Structure is one of my favorite things to talk about.

36:18I think that structure, first of all, a lot of people that I work with are entrepreneurs or they think

36:24like entrepreneurs.

36:25And we tend to be people who embrace structures that we create or that make sense to us, but we

36:33don't want to create, we don't want to embrace structures that are imposed upon us or that don't make sense.

36:39So in some ways that's beneficial as an entrepreneur because you find the most efficient way to get from point

36:46A to point B.

36:47You're not going to follow a rule if it doesn't make sense.

36:50That same resistance to structure can be problematic when you impose a structure on yourself.

36:56So I use a tool called the six most important things list.

37:00There's a really great historical story about its origin where the person who created it went into a company and

37:09just said, I want to implement only one thing with your top leadership team.

37:13And then if I come back in a few months and it's made a difference, you can pay me what

37:17you think it was worth.

37:18And so the tool is that every day before you leave your office or you leave your place of work,

37:24you make a list of the six most important things for you to do the next day.

37:29And when you get in, you immediately get to work on checking those things off of your list.

37:37It's very simple.

37:38I've used the tool for over 20 years, probably more than 25 now, right?

37:43But even me, I know that it works.

37:47I teach it all the time.

37:49I actually even have like a branded, this is so funny.

37:53I have a branded sheet with my name on it right here that you can use on which you can

37:59write your six most important things list.

38:00But I find myself resisting structure sometimes just because I'm like, I don't want to follow the rules.

38:07You know, I have kind of that habit of thinking in me.

38:09It's kind of like an itch.

38:11So like for an example today, for some reason, I have my six most important things list over here written

38:17on this little scratch piece of paper instead of my beautiful.

38:20Why?

38:21Why not just embrace the structure, right?

38:23But I will let myself rebel in ways that aren't harmful.

38:28I love that.

38:29Yeah.

38:29Like it doesn't hurt for me to write it on another.

38:32It feels good to be a rebel, but you're not going to cause any damage by it.

38:35So let it rip, right?

38:36And like there's a list.

38:37I'm following it.

38:38Like I'm not, you know, it doesn't matter.

38:39So I'll give myself like off ramps to kind of get that out because I know it's a risk for

38:45me.

38:46And because I know the structure is beneficial and I want to embrace it, but I just, for whatever reason,

38:52it's like I get itchy when I feel boxed in.

38:55And so I have to just sort of let myself.

38:57You can't?

38:58Yes, I can.

38:59I've never thought of it as rebelling about things that don't cause harm, though.

39:04That's.

39:05It's a good one, right?

39:06Like I'm just like, well, if I'm going to rebel, then I'll do that sometimes with my schedule, too.

39:12You know, I'll give myself like I just going to blow an hour just because just let yourself sometimes because

39:20you in order to embrace structure over an extended period of time, you've got to have a break from it.

39:26People who have any sort of healthy habit in their life, whether it's working out or following a budget or

39:32reading 10 pages a day or journaling or whatever, they often take breaks from it on the regular.

39:38They aren't perfect in their pursuit of it.

39:41I have a morning routine that I've followed for years and years and years, and people think I do it

39:47seven days a week at the same time every day, always the same thing, not even close.

39:53Most weeks I do it four days a week, maybe, you know, sometimes I do it none.

39:59Sometimes I do it seven.

40:00But I have consistently come back to that habit for probably 15 years working through the Miracle Morning.

40:07I just have done it and done it and done it and done it.

40:10But but there's this perfectionistic tendency to think like either I'm in this rigid box where I do it perfectly

40:17or it's a failure when we think about structure.

40:20The reality is most structures are kind of bendy and they and they require flexibility and you've got to give

40:28yourself some leeway or else you'll never stick with it for the long run.

40:32Also, in areas where you have, I would say, unhealed pain with my clients, but but maybe you've had difficult

40:38experiences in the past.

40:40You cannot be super rigid in structure in those areas where you have had pain.

40:47You've got to give yourself more wiggle room.

40:50So I'll give you an example.

40:51I had some years in business that financially were exceptionally difficult and I felt out of integrity with what people

41:01perceived and then like with what was really happening.

41:04So money for me is always an area where I'm I'm not going to follow a budget to the penny.

41:11Don't put me in the most rigid budget.

41:14Now, I have frameworks and structures that hold me in place.

41:17I have people that hold me accountable.

41:19I have people that I hire to help me with the money because I know I'll rebel in that, you

41:25know, but I'm not I can't don't don't put me in like a super rigid box on that one.

41:31Right. Give me some wiggle room, because for me, that's a little twitchy.

41:36I got you. So you have to know yourself, too.

41:39And you have to know now in other areas, I would follow a workout plan to the T for three

41:45years without problem.

41:46Like I don't have any resistance there and I would do it without like I just would do it if

41:51you told me to do it.

41:52I've trained for marathons.

41:53I've done all that kind of stuff where I don't have resistance there.

41:56But like there are other areas where I'm just like, oh, I don't know.

42:00You're going to get a kick out of this.

42:02So I've done six Ironman triathlons.

42:06I've done one.

42:08I've done two ultra marathons.

42:09One was 100 miler and I've never put together a formal training plan.

42:13And the reason for it, I'm going to go back to something we talked about earlier.

42:16I've never have said myself, oh, I have to go work out.

42:20Now, I know I know that it's a priority because I want to finish the race and I don't want

42:24to end up in the hospital.

42:25So I know full good and well the amount of exercise that I need to do to be able to

42:31safely accomplish my objective without embarrassing myself or end up in the hospital.

42:35But I have never put together a formal plan.

42:37And the reason I didn't is because I get to exercise.

42:41I don't have to work out.

42:43Oh, and if you had the plan, it would feel like you had to.

42:47Oh, so fascinating.

42:48If you're going to trade for Ironman, it's realistic that when I first started out, the most hours I spent

42:53training.

42:54I mean, there's people who do more, but my first one, I was kind of scared of it.

42:57And my maximum week is I put in 18 hours of actual exercise in seven days.

43:02Now, you've got to add in drive time to and from the places I'm going to ride my bike or

43:07run or whatever it may be.

43:08So that's almost a part-time job in addition to regular work.

43:11So not great for the family for sure.

43:13I've got it now where I can get by.

43:15I can finish one, still look good for the pictures with about maximum work week of about 13 hours.

43:21Obviously building up to that.

43:22So that's much more palatable.

43:25But I know of that 13 hours, how many of them need to be spent on the bike, how many

43:30need to be spent running, and how many need to be spent in the pool.

43:32Now, when I do that, I don't have a structured, I have never had a structured plan that on Monday

43:39I'm going to swim from this time to this time.

43:40On Tuesday I'm going to run from this time to this time.

43:42On Wednesday I'm going to ride.

43:43But what if it's pouring down rain on Wednesday?

43:45Do I feel like going riding my bike and risking a wreck?

43:48Probably not.

43:49Or what if it's snowing?

43:50I did one where I trained during the winter.

43:53If it's snowing, I'm not going to go ride my bike.

43:55And I'm not going to get wrapped around the axle or frustrated because, oh, I can't follow this rigid schedule.

43:59No, I guess I'm going to run today.

44:00No big deal.

44:01But I got my work in in the course of the week without any problem.

44:05And it was something that I enjoyed.

44:07I got to spend great time.

44:09People are like, how can you spend five hours on a bike?

44:11I'm like, how can you spend five hours sitting on a bar stool?

44:13Difference is I'm with my buddies and I just happen to be getting in better shape.

44:17But we're talking.

44:18We're enjoying the scenery.

44:19We're outside.

44:20It's a great time.

44:22And I found a way to take a workout, which could be perceived as a job if I have to

44:27abide by a strict schedule,

44:28to I get to exercise and spend quality time with my friends.

44:32Yeah.

44:33So I get what you're saying.

44:34Do you think that if you told someone, I've completed this number of races and these kinds of things,

44:40they would assume that you are very rigid?

44:44Not even a little bit.

44:46Absolutely not.

44:47Right.

44:47And so I think that's a fallacy we believe, though, about people who accomplish big things is that they're very

44:54rigid.

44:55And I find the opposite to be true.

44:57Now, that being said, you are it's kind of like my six most important things list.

45:03You don't have a schedule, but you're doing it.

45:06Well, I can remember one day I went out and I ran for, I don't know, I probably put kind

45:11of 30 or 40 miles on a Saturday.

45:12And I was sore and stiff on Sunday.

45:16One of my buddies calls me up, says, hey, we're going to go run about 40.

45:20And it was up in St. Louis, up behind Six Flags, very hilly trails and stuff.

45:25He's like, we're going to go run about 40.

45:26I'm like, dude, I can hardly walk.

45:27I'm so stiff from yesterday.

45:28He's like, well, you only ran 40 yesterday.

45:31And you had a whole night's sleep.

45:32He goes, you think you're not going to be sore and stiff in the race day?

45:34This would be good practice for you.

45:36I'm like, you're right, man.

45:38Let me grab something.

45:39Let me grab some clothes.

45:40Grab some stuff to drink, food.

45:42I'll meet you.

45:43Literally just like that.

45:44But that's my peer group.

45:46My peer group is people that will call you up and say, hey, man, you want to go run for

45:4940 miles?

45:50Or, hey, you want to go ride your bike for 80?

45:51Sure, man.

45:52But total flexibility.

45:55But come race day, I was prepared.

45:57Got through it.

45:58I did the work.

45:59Let me rephrase that.

46:00I got to exercise.

46:01I didn't have to do the work.

46:03I put in the time appropriately, but it was a way different mindset.

46:07And it worked.

46:08That's the obligation mindset right there, right?

46:10It's the choose to, get to, want to.

46:13Yeah.

46:14And it's so different.

46:15It's such a different energy.

46:17Way different.

46:18So when you were talking about that earlier, I was like, she's on to something there.

46:21That was huge.

46:22And I can relate to that.

46:25That's a perfect example of it.

46:26So, hey, I really appreciate your time.

46:29I've enjoyed this conversation immensely.

46:30And I hope those watching and listening have too.

46:32If people want to know more about you, the work you do, your book, what are the best ways for

46:37them to connect and learn more?

46:38Yeah.

46:39First and the easiest step you can take is to actually take the Habit Finder.

46:44It is a free assessment tool.

46:46So that's available on my website.

46:48And that is my name, Amy Kemp.

46:51So A-M-Y-K-E-M-P dot com.

46:54You just click take the Habit Finder and you get your results emailed to you right away.

47:00There's a chart kind of you click on the different tabs to see the results.

47:04I will warn you if you are an overachiever, it's measuring risk.

47:08It's not measuring good or bad.

47:10You're not failing at anything.

47:11It's just telling you where you have risks in your subconscious habits of thinking.

47:16So that is a really great first step for you to take and is really eye-opening as well.

47:22The book is called I See You and it is available anywhere you purchase books.

47:27So Barnes & Noble, Amazon, all of the places, you can purchase it on bookshop.org if you want

47:33to support a local bookstore.

47:35And then also it's on Audible.

47:37So it's my voice.

47:39I recorded it.

47:40You can listen if you're a listener instead of an actual physical reader.

47:43So those are really the two best entry points into my work where you can kind of learn more

47:49and understand the work that I do.

47:51First of all, thank you for making that available, especially for free.

47:54I mean, I don't see a downside for anybody that wants to know more about how to tap into

48:01greater potential and avoid unnecessary risks.

48:04And that's very gracious of you to share that for free.

48:05I appreciate that.

48:06And I hope those who are watching, listening, take advantage of that.

48:09And thanks for giving us a heads up where to find your book and learn more about you

48:12at amykemp.com.

48:14Amy, it's been a pleasure having you on.

48:15Thank you so much for joining us.

The Hidden Thought Habits Holding Business Owners Back | Amy Kemp

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