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Viene de una familia de emprendedores, se lo llevaron de Colombia cuando era niño por culpa de la violencia de los años 80, estudió en Estados Unidos, trabajó para un fondo de inversión y cuando estaba en Brasil, vio una oportunidad de oro. Ahora es el hombre detrás del banco más innovador de América, con 140 millones de clientes, y el mismo que cambió ese viejo modelo en Colombia que antes controlaban los mismos bancos de siempre con más de 100 años. Aquí está su historia, lo que quiere hacer por el Chocó, su opinión sobre la IA y hasta le deja un mensaje a los que quieren emprender en esta conversación con Edwin Bohórquez Aya, gerente digital de El Espectador.
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00:07David Vélez, the creator of almost nothing, Nubank, we finally got it.
00:14What a pleasure, Edwin, happy to be talking with you.
00:16Well, we have limited time here and we're going to make the most of it.
00:20I want this interview to be different because this is entrepreneurship, this is leadership,
00:23to an audience that is very dreamy.
00:25So let's start with the basics, tell us a little bit about how it was structured and conceived
00:30which relatively few years later changed the financial dynamics of this part of the world.
00:37Well, let's see, I am, I have a family of pure entrepreneurs,
00:42Dad's side, mom's side, they were all entrepreneurs.
00:45And I grew up hearing that you had to do your own thing, follow your own path,
00:52I tried to build my own journey and it took me quite a few years to find the idea and the opportunity.
01:00But he was always there.
01:01The desire was always there, but like that, I remember recording myself at university saying,
01:05I need to start something, I don't want a job, but the idea just wouldn't come.
01:09So I said, well, no, let's look for a job.
01:11And I left for 10 years, 10, 12 years, from 21 to 30, working and gaining experience.
01:19That was in the United States.
01:20In the United States and in Brazil.
01:22That took me to Brazil the first time, working for an American fund in Brazil.
01:27And I made another shipment in the United States and I saw it again in Brazil.
01:31And he always kept that radar on, looking for opportunities.
01:34And the opportunity always presented itself with the whole story of when I tried to open a bank account there
01:38in Sao Paulo.
01:39Personal experience?
01:41Personal experience.
01:42Terrible?
01:43No, it's experience. I compare it to... it's an experience that treats you like a criminal to open a...
01:48bank account.
01:49Yes, mistrust.
01:50The distrust, a reinforced door, there were a lot of armed guards looking at me as if I were trying to miss the
01:56bank.
01:57I had to leave my backpack with the crazy guy outside the branch, wait 50 minutes for a guy,
02:03The agency threw papers at me and said, "What are you doing here?"
02:06Almost as if asking him for a favor.
02:08I begged him...
02:09When one went to take the money there.
02:10When it was me who was going to give him my money.
02:12And it was the opposite, it was as if he were doing me a favor.
02:15And, in short, it was a five-month process of anger, frustration, and anxiety.
02:19And in the end, an account that charged me thousands of pesos, an absurd interest rate.
02:25And I said, no, not this, this is the opportunity, this frustration is the opportunity.
02:28That's where the idea came from, as they say, that's entrepreneurship not out of necessity, but out of opportunity.
02:32So, you said, did you really imagine it or what did you say?
02:36How did the idea start?
02:36Well, let's see, it was a moment where I said, it can't be that a consumer's experience in banks is
02:41so difficult.
02:42And this was the most expensive part of Sao Paulo.
02:48As it would be in the rest, right?
02:49Imagine the rest of the country.
02:51And then I started asking my Brazilian friends, "But why does it work this way?"
02:55Could it be something to do with this bank?
02:56And he told me, no, no, no, all banks are the same.
02:57You're going to be next door, you're the same, but you're not going to treat each other the same.
03:00There are five banks, which own 90% of the system.
03:03Basically, there's nothing to do.
03:05An oligopoly.
03:05It's an oligopoly.
03:06And life has always been like this and will always be like this.
03:11And that didn't make sense.
03:12A consumer cannot be treated that way.
03:14So there had to be an option, and it was there at the right time, and it was also in the right place.
03:21at the right time, because it was 2012 when cell phone penetration began to accelerate rapidly.
03:27But it was exploding.
03:28The whole world of social media was exploding.
03:30So the combination of timing, seeing the right problem at the right time,
03:36After thinking about it, my head felt like the dots connected and I said,
03:39Ah, the opportunity is a digital bank that has become obsessed with the consumer experience.
03:43And today it is the largest digital bank on this side of the world.
03:48Operations in Brazil, operations in Colombia, operations in Mexico.
03:51And just recently, it announced operations in the United States.
03:56Clearly I'm not going to ask him if he dreamed that when he started the bank.
03:59But I'd rather ask you about the future.
04:02What is the vision for the UN in the next three or four years?
04:05I don't want to say ten years because we are in times of technology and artificial intelligence.
04:09It wouldn't be logical to ask him what it's been like for so long.
04:11How do you envision the bank in one, two, three years?
04:14Well, one thing that up until that point, at the beginning,
04:19or we thought, was that this was a problem,
04:22It wasn't necessarily a problem for Brazil,
04:24It was necessarily a problem for Latin America,
04:26which could be a global problem.
04:27In the world.
04:27Because you look at all the countries in the world and they have many things in common.
04:31There are basically five or six banks that own the system, 80, 90%.
04:35And when there are only five or six banks that own the system, that means there is a lack of competition.
04:40Lack of access, people are not treated well, they charge too much, there are too many fees.
04:44And being digital makes us much more efficient, so we can pass that efficiency on to the end consumer.
04:50charging him much less and treating him much better.
04:53And this wasn't specific to Brazil.
04:56Initially, obviously, the goal was, will we ever be able to reach one million customers in Brazil?
05:01And it seemed absurdly ambitious and impossible.
05:04Impossible.
05:04The goal was one million in five years and we reached it in two.
05:07Then we got to ten, then we got to one hundred.
05:10And today we have 140 million.
05:12We have replicated the model in Mexico, and in Colombia we are happy because we are already
05:17the fourth largest financial institution in Colombia in terms of number of clients.
05:21We are the fastest growing credit card company in the system.
05:24And when we think about the next ten years, already answering, we continue to say,
05:27This opportunity is global, let's go for more, let's see how far we can go.
05:32And that's where the US launch came in, where we believe the opportunity is so great.
05:35like the one we have seen so far.
05:37I mean, we'll see in five or ten years, but I think the opportunity is very, very big.
05:41This is the first time I've spoken to you, let's say, in a close way, and I feel a tremendous energy from you.
05:45How do you lead such a large bank that was founded so relatively recently?
05:51Look, it requires a lot of energy, and it's a lot of work.
05:55And when it's climbing it's full of problems and something breaks and over there people.
06:01It's always one after the other.
06:03But to do something that has an impact on people, to do something ambitious, and to do something smart,
06:09It generates energy, it doesn't take away your energy.
06:11So, for me, having the opportunity to continue scaling Nubank and expanding into other countries,
06:17working with exceptional people, talented, very good people who work with another Nubank,
06:22being able to see the impact on people.
06:23I just came from Salvador de Bahia, a city in northern Brazil,
06:27where we spent yesterday at the lady's house, listening to her and understanding what we can do
06:33to improve our products with artificial intelligence.
06:35Being able to fully understand that problem is something that generates a lot of motivation.
06:41So, we'll see, but I'm very happy.
06:45Are you happy?
06:45Happy.
06:46Can you feel it?
06:47Yeah.
06:47I want to ask you about something I haven't seen in a while.
06:50I have been doing journalism for 21 years.
06:52I saw it at some point in a strip where there seemed to be a very synchronous, very beautiful relationship,
06:56And it is the relationship between governments and businesses.
06:59Now you, let's say, with other top business leaders in this country,
07:03He sat with the government in the midst of a country grieving the tragedy, the earthquake.
07:10I'd like you to tell me a little bit about, let's say, behind the scenes of what you're planning with the
07:16government
07:16And ultimately, nobody is forcing you to do that.
07:19Why did they, in their case, make the decision to do so?
07:23Let's see, several parts.
07:24First, I left; I had to leave Colombia when I was eight years old.
07:29Our whole family and I had to leave.
07:31Because of the violence in the eighties, right?
07:33Because of the violence in the eighties, and I grew up in Costa Rica, then there,
07:37and I started the business in Brazil.
07:38But my heart is Colombian.
07:40I am Colombian and I am very proud of Colombia and I love Colombia.
07:43They come from the countries.
07:44Yes, and I have a lot of family and I want Colombia to do well.
07:47I want Colombia to be successful as a country.
07:51And I think that when the country runs into trouble like such a big earthquake, a tragedy,
07:59There's always an instinct for how we can help.
08:02And when we find an opening from a government that says,
08:05Come and help us, because not all governments open their doors to entrepreneurs.
08:14In fact, many governments see the entrepreneur as the enemy in some way.
08:19While what the entrepreneur is trying to do is create a company,
08:22It's about creating competition, creating jobs, and giving dynamism to the economy.
08:27When we found that opening from the government, well, basically everyone in Colombia,
08:30We all said that we could help, let's go.
08:32And that's what we found with the president of the PRI.
08:35And then, we met with him, with the other businessmen,
08:39and especially on our family side,
08:41We remain focused on Chocó.
08:43It is an area of Colombia that has been significantly altered,
08:47of great deficiency, of great lack of historical access,
08:52where perhaps even technology can accelerate them and make them leap into the future.
08:58We have a vision of how technology and artificial intelligence
09:00You can do that specifically with education.
09:03And our entire focus is going in that direction.
09:06how we reinvented the education system,
09:09or we help reinvent the education system in Chocó.
09:11We've spoken a lot with the governor, who is excellent,
09:14and we have been very impressed with her.
09:15So, obviously, it's by hand.
09:17There is a role, there is a position for the government and for the private sector,
09:22And the country wins, and everyone wins
09:24when the two work together as a team.
09:26I want to take this opportunity to give a message to entrepreneurs,
09:30to the people who, despite everything, in Colombia,
09:33that it's so difficult to start a business,
09:34that one has not yet invoiced the first business
09:37And now it's time for him to pay at the Chamber of Commerce and the DIAN (Colombian Tax Authority).
09:40Seriously, that's incredible.
09:41So that they don't give up on starting a business,
09:43so that they don't give up on doing business,
09:45And that it is possible to create something from scratch and create something great.
09:48Yeah.
09:49That's right, some questions.
09:50First, one of my most important mentors,
09:54He once told me something that has always stuck with me,
09:56what is it...
09:56Who? Who is it?
09:57His name is Doug Leone.
09:58Doug was my boss back when I was working in the United States.
10:01Yeah.
10:02And then he once told me that one has to position oneself on the side of scarcity,
10:07not on the side of abundance, strategically.
10:09When one thinks about how I position myself,
10:14That basically means that if I'm going to do what everyone else is doing,
10:18There's no way to differentiate yourself.
10:20If something is easy to do, it's not just easy for me.
10:23It's easy for everyone.
10:24Already.
10:25On the other hand, if there is something difficult to do, the competition will be much less.
10:29Walt Disney said, "I am fascinated by doing the impossible because there is less competition."
10:35Already.
10:38So, the difficulties we have in Colombia,
10:40From one point of view, or to start a business in Colombia,
10:43On the one hand, it may seem very difficult, and it is,
10:46But on the other hand, it's an opportunity.
10:48And many of those problems, like the problem we had in financial services,
10:52It's very good at having problems.
10:53There are health problems, there are education problems in Colombia,
10:55There are infrastructure problems, there are problems everywhere.
10:57So, regarding those problems, there are two ways to react.
11:00Or we sit and complain, which most of us do,
11:03Ah, it's because the government doesn't do that, it's because the others don't do that.
11:06It's the hospitals, it's that either we go and solve it.
11:09And if we solve it, for us, we'll probably solve it.
11:12for another 40 million people.
11:14And that is the gigantic opportunity that is believed to be of power,
11:17not only to create a large company,
11:19but solve a major problem for the population,
11:22creating a great impact.
11:23So, perhaps what I would say is, it's difficult,
11:25But in some ways, it might even be a good thing that it's difficult.
11:28And if we're going to invest our energy and time in something,
11:31It's better that it's difficult than easy.
11:32In other words, we need to focus on scarcity.
11:34In times of scarcity.
11:35And with this we conclude.
11:37Artificial intelligence, as good as it is critical,
11:40They frighten us, they inspire fear.
11:42but they also offer us a solution.
11:43I want to hear from you.
11:46Because today's businesses are all permeated by technology,
11:49Yours is, obviously, technologically based,
11:51with artificial intelligence.
11:53Give us your opinion, David's opinion,
11:55the one who understood from the financial world,
11:58Investment banking understood a need,
12:00He covered it, he created a bank, which I think is impressive.
12:04This is where the financial world clearly changed,
12:07But tell us about your vision for artificial intelligence,
12:09of today, which is already palpable to everyone,
12:12as soon as we have a phone and internet access.
12:14Clear.
12:15Well, artificial intelligence is like,
12:17It's going to be more or less like a technology,
12:19like the other technologies we have seen.
12:21You can imagine, for example,
12:22when cavemen invented fire.
12:26What a great opportunity to have fire, isn't it?
12:29Fire, thanks to fire,
12:30The cavemen began to cook meat,
12:33Thanks to meat,
12:34Human digestive systems changed
12:36and required less energy to process and digest the meat,
12:40There were fewer types of diseases,
12:44Thanks to the fire they were able to warm themselves
12:46and the first towns began to be created
12:48And the first civilizations began to be created.
12:51So, it was a technology that I really believe in.
12:52but a technology that also carried a great deal of risk.
12:55Many people were burned by the fire,
12:57Many houses caught fire,
12:59It has a dark side to fire where there is a great risk.
13:02All technologies have those sides,
13:04positive side and negative side.
13:06The energy had that,
13:07Atomic energy has that,
13:09That's what industrialization has.
13:11Artificial intelligence is that,
13:13but exponential.
13:15The positive things will be 100 times greater
13:18which any other technology can have.
13:21we can see, imagine the end of the disease,
13:25the end of cancer,
13:27people living to 150, 200 years old.
13:30We can imagine the end of world hunger,
13:34an impressive abundance.
13:37Many of those solutions will involve artificial intelligence,
13:39There is also a very risky dark side,
13:42cyber attacks, hacker attacks,
13:45frauds.
13:47So, what's complicated is,
13:49if we become obsessed with the negative
13:52and we stopped technology,
13:54we won't have the positive aspects.
13:55And that's where society will have to see how we're doing.
13:58as an evolving society
14:00and controlling both sides.
14:02Today it feels like the negative side
14:04It's running a little faster than the positive one,
14:06Then many of the companies even told us
14:08Let's slow down a little.
14:11I think it's fine.
14:12because many of the companies have to arrive
14:14And they have to prepare for that.
14:17put on the fireproof,
14:18Place fireproofing in the caves.
14:21But in the future it may be a technology
14:24incredibly positive for humanity
14:26and for human beings,
14:28especially when talking about entrepreneurship or education,
14:31It will democratize access to intelligence.
14:35Anyone,
14:36anywhere in the country,
14:37in a rural area,
14:39Imagine being able to have access
14:40at an intelligence level
14:42that formerly only PhDs
14:45or the most focused people really had.
14:48So it has those two sides
14:49and we have to learn how to manage them
14:50and understand both sides of the coin as a company.
14:53And now for the last one,
14:54I'm going to take up too much of your time
14:55And the thing is, those of us who are parents have children,
14:58how to encourage that entrepreneurial spirit
15:02to our children,
15:04how to get them to think big,
15:07outside the box,
15:10think about scarcity
15:11and see that it is possible.
15:13That he who rows and rows truly...
15:16He probably gets tired, but he arrives.
15:18That message is for those of us who have children,
15:20for parents and for children.
15:22Well, I'm still learning.
15:23I have young children,
15:24So I'm not coming.
15:26Me too, I have a 12-year-old
15:27And I'm not going to say
15:29I have the whole solution.
15:31But soon, what can help?
15:33First, the example,
15:34what we do,
15:35Our children see it.
15:36So, an example speaks louder than a thousand words.
15:38in our actions themselves.
15:43Second, encourage them to do difficult things.
15:45We often try to protect our children
15:48of difficult situations.
15:50We are overprotective,
15:51We don't want them to fall,
15:53We don't want them to experience any kind of pain,
15:56But in fact, humans become stronger.
16:01when we encounter obstacles and overcome them.
16:04If we remove all obstacles,
16:06We didn't develop that trust.
16:08So, a certain level of obstacles
16:11for our children,
16:12that they go and meet
16:14that things are difficult,
16:15But then they go and achieve it on their own.
16:17That gives them a lot of confidence,
16:20It gives them a lot of self-control,
16:23and then it probably allows them
16:25to be increasingly ambitious
16:27and imagine that they are capable
16:28to do more and more and more important things.
16:30So, that's where I would start.
16:33But if you have anything else, let me know.
16:36No, well, imagine.
16:37Does it also have learning opportunities?
16:38Yes, yes, they're already asking me for recommendations based on that study.
16:40No, he sends me, he sends me.
16:41David, thank you very much for your time.
16:42for dedicating a little time to it
16:43to the viewer,
16:44to the Entrepreneurship and Leadership Audience,
16:45and especially to the people who see you
16:47as a benchmark.
16:48Thank you.
16:48Thank you, David.
16:49Very kind, thank you.
16:51You know that this interview remains
16:52for the entire digital platform
16:54from www.elespectador.com.
16:56See you.
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