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00:00You have to look at these things through the Browns and Todd Munkins lens and how they see
00:04this. They don't look at Deshaun Watson as a one week and we're just going to pull the rug out
00:10and
00:10be done with this. We all are done with this. We were done with it before it ever started and
00:14that's part of the difference. They're not and they've given us no signs that they are.
00:19You're not wrong about that especially just because they had the out. When Watson took out
00:25his flamethrower after that Bill's preseason game, he gave them an out and they refused
00:31to take it. So that decision showed you that they were actually serious about putting him
00:36on the field because they had some wiggle room to get off from this and to not put him back
00:41on the field. So they genuinely for whatever reason believe that he gives them the best
00:47chance to win and then as a fan, now that's skewing my opinion on Todd Munkin because I
00:53wanted to be like Nick. I wanted to be trusting Todd. You almost sound like me. That's not true.
00:59You had to check yourself. I thought we've always been moderately Todd. Nick has been trusting Todd.
01:04I've always been. I came into this thinking that maybe he is a piece of what they've been
01:09missing just because he was sold to us as this honest Abe type figure that's going to come in
01:15here and tell it how it is and he's going to coach guys up and create all these great relationships
01:19with players. And how many lies have you already caught him in already? So many. And then all
01:23these great relationships with players. I got Ronnie Hickman saying that the quarterback
01:26decisions above his pay grade. He doesn't want to talk about the starting quarterback decision
01:30because he doesn't want to get himself in trouble because if you say anything about this
01:34quarterback situation, you're going to get yourself in trouble. So, so like that's where
01:38we're at with this dude. And I can't, I can't just sit here and say that the reaction
01:43from the Browns fans has been an overreaction. If anything, I'd push back against it and say
01:48it's been an underreaction and under Browns fans. I thought it was going to be louder on
01:54Monday. I thought yesterday was going to be a hell of a lot crazier. I thought it was
02:00somewhat muted. You had people pointing to, well, if you look at the numbers, they act,
02:03the numbers actually show we had a 98 QBR. That was weird people on the internet. I felt like
02:08we talked to Browns fans. We opened up the phone lines. It was five hours of what the hell
02:11are we doing? Yeah, it was five hours actual Browns fans and people that call into this
02:15station. It was five hours of what are you guys doing with Deshaun Watson? Well, good
02:19because that's what the reaction should be. If there are Browns fans in Tampa listening
02:23to us right now on the free Odyssey app, which I know there are because Daryl and I take calls
02:27from Florida every Sunday on the Sunday show. Daryl loves a call outside of Ohio. He does
02:33his map game. He zooms all the way out. We do it really. It's really excited, but we know
02:38that there are people down there listening to us right now who are Browns fans
02:41in Florida. Go to the game and boo. If you're upset with the product, go into that stadium,
02:48Raymond James, and let him hear you. And week three against Carolina, it's going to be the
02:54same scene here, Jonathan, because until they change something, this is just going to be
02:58more of the same. I guess what I want to get across is the idea that the Browns and the
03:02fans just don't think the same way. And it doesn't mean, by the way, that I think the Browns
03:06think correctly. I think the fans are thinking correctly this entire stretch of the way.
03:10You, me, I think we've thought correctly on this, but it's just, it hasn't added up.
03:15One plus one doesn't equal two in these discussions because the Browns don't look at Deshaun Watson
03:19as just a one week trial. And I would really hope that they would look at it as, like,
03:26hey, we're done after two weeks. We don't want to throw them out there in front of the home
03:29crowd. But I can't promise you that they look at it that way. I really can't. So we're trying
03:33to ask guys, 216-474-0092, what exactly does Deshaun have to do to lose this job? And if
03:39he gives you exactly the same performance he did in week one, in week two, the expectation
03:43I have is not that they'll bench them. It's that they'll keep trotting them out there.
03:46And until they show me they're not going to be stubborn about this thing, I'm left to believe
03:51Deshaun Watson's got a little bit of a leash. It sounds insane, Nick, but this is where we're
03:56at with this team. It's absolutely where we're like, like nothing about this week has shown
04:02that they've even considered it, right? Like, I don't even think, I don't even think it's
04:06in a, in consideration, you know, where it maybe felt like Sunday, he kind of left the
04:10door open because he didn't touch the starting quarterback thing until Monday. But then yesterday
04:15when he met with the reporters on zoom, he ripped the bandaid off from jump street saying
04:19that Watson was going to be his quarterback. And even Sunday, his whole, I'm not firing myself.
04:23I'm not firing our staff. I'm not firing all the players. Like, Oh, you don't have to fire
04:27all of them. You don't have to fire yourself and you don't have to fire the whole staff,
04:30but maybe you should fire the guy that's been unplayable since he arrived in Cleveland
04:34in 2022. And I get that his lens is that he wasn't around for any of that stuff that
04:39happened before history matters though. Maybe you should go take a look at some of that
04:43stuff. I also think you don't exclusively give every practice rep and everything for the
04:46previous couple of weeks with the idea that, Oh, you get one game and that's it. I just
04:50like that all the signs have been there the entire time. The signs have been there that
04:53they're going to start on week one for seven months. And now the signs have continued on
04:56that they're going to continue to play him until they are absolutely unequivocally sure
05:00that the old Deshaun Watson's not coming back. They're going to play.
05:03A lot of people think that like the change happens, Jonathan, this week that like,
05:07if it goes bad against Baker and Tampa, you can't let them play in the opener in our stadium
05:12because of the booing. I don't know that they care.
05:15I don't think they care. I don't think they care. They'll say, hold my beer. They'll watch it happen.
05:18If you want to build a case for self-sabotage with Deshaun Watson, going back to the Houston
05:23days, I think you can find it.
05:25I've caught myself wondering if this whole thing is just like a humiliation ritual because
05:31like, dude, like he has no chance when he's out there and everybody knows it. So, so that's
05:36like the crazy piece of it is that like in the NFL, like this is like one of like, I
05:41guess
05:41like the secrets or like the behind the scenes thing in the NFL is like the players know.
05:46The players know who's good and who stinks.
05:49That's usually an NBA mantra that we live by. Like NBA players, they know who can play
05:53and who can't play. Football, I always think it gets a little dicier, but you're not wrong.
05:56Like, especially at the quarterback position where it's so obvious. I think receiver is
06:00another one where it's pretty obvious, you know, are guys getting open or are they not?
06:03Are they catching the football or are they not? Like with quarterback, it's somewhat easy
06:07to evaluate. If you're playing like garbage and it's on tape and these guys have to go
06:13in Monday and sit down and watch the tape from the all 22. They're not watching the
06:17broadcast. They're watching the eye in the sky angle and watching every mind numbing
06:22Deshaun Watson mistake. And I've caught myself wondering, like, is this just a
06:25humiliation ritual? Cause this is somebody that, that just does not belong on an NFL
06:29field and, and quite literally everybody knows it.
06:33So I, I, again, I think you can build a case for self-sabotage. I do. I think there's
06:37something real about that, but I also think that might be very, very kind to what his
06:41talent ability is right now. Like, like saying self-sabotage is almost giving him
06:46a pass in this equation. And what I don't think that he earns, I just think he's not
06:50very good at quarterback. I feel like, I feel like even in Houston, if you go all
06:53the way back, I used to have Texans fans always tell me, cause I had a lot of Houston
06:57friends cause I lived in Houston and they'd be like, check it out. It's a lot of garbage
07:00time passes. It's a lot of garbage time play. We won four games and a lot of it
07:04happened. The 4,800 yard season, a lot of it happened end of game. And it's like,
07:08well, what'd you just see in game one? That was the, that was the perfect week. One was
07:11the perfect encapsulation of what Texans fans told me forever. Oh yeah. 97 pass rating
07:16looked like he, uh, looked like he did. All right. Looked like he got over 200 yards.
07:19Okay. Okay. Performance. This and that. It's like, well, no, you had to watch the game.
07:23You watch the game. It wasn't any good. If you watch the game, like you, you understand
07:27that like the, the game was really over with six minutes to go before halftime, the game
07:33was over. Cause you were down by more than three touchdowns. You're 24, nothing out of
07:37into the half. And then it's obviously 31, nothing. Cause they got the first drive Jacksonville
07:41did out of the half. But I don't want to make it seem like Deshaun Watson stunk up the joint
07:45for all of time. No, there was a time where there was good football in there. I can acknowledge
07:50that, but after so many injuries and so many years and so much, just not doing it. The idea
07:55that he still has it existing somewhere in his body is just not something I ever believed.
07:59So I guess, I guess I'll ask you, do you think it's more self-sabotage or do you think he
08:02just doesn't have the talent? He just doesn't have it like, like, you know, and maybe at
08:06some point I do wonder if they'll try to spin it as self-sabotage that Cleveland was never
08:12the right fit for him. I wonder if he kind of plays some of the Johnny Manziel hits where
08:16he just, you know, torches the Browns when this is all over. He's got it. He doesn't have
08:20a card left. Especially like, right. If he wants to play in this league, which he continues
08:25stating that, that he wants to be a QB in the NFL. He wants to take
08:29this opportunity to prove that he belongs. He turned 31 years old yesterday. So there
08:33still should be something in there. I just don't believe it is mentally or physically,
08:37by the way. Yeah. I mean, that's the problem. He seems like he's mentally and physically
08:41just done. And, and, but that is going to be the card he plays though, Nick, he's going
08:44to go to another team or he's going to try to latch onto another team on the idea of nobody
08:49could do it in Cleveland. Yep. And we're going to have to take the brunt of that. Cause right
08:52now we don't have much evidence to suggest that he's wrong. We just don't, I wish we did.
08:57We don't, but I do think our evidence is exactly what you pointed to though. And I remember
09:02exactly what you're talking about. When that trade happened, dude, there were a lot of people
09:06like ripping the Texans, like beat and Texans media for kind of sending some of those warning
09:13signals to the Browns. Oh yeah. They did. They tried to, they tried telling anyone that would
09:17listen. Just the fact that like, is he a good quarterback? Yeah. Like he was, they were acknowledging
09:20that they were just saying, Hey, a lot of the stats are very empty. This was a team that won
09:24four games. And a lot of the stuff came in the fourth quarter. Everybody brought out the
09:29pitchforks towards the Texans media when they were trying to warn us about all of that. I remember
09:33we brought a couple of those people, you know, onto the station. I remember listening to, you know,
09:38some of the people in the Texans beat. I can hear it right now. My buddy, Nick Sciarro,
09:41who used to host at the ESPN station, he did a very much like it's all garbage time. And I'm
09:46like,
09:46okay. And like, it wasn't like a warning. I guess they weren't sending us like a warning,
09:51but it was like, they really were trying to make us aware of it, but everybody just dunked on him
09:56at the time. And man, were they right? Like he cannot function when, when the first string
10:01defense is on the field. He just can't do one, six, four, seven, four to below 92. No,
10:05it's obviously a real problem. Uh, but it's funny cause it might be a lack of talent. And I don't
10:10think it's, I don't think it's self-sabotage, although we can point to a million reasons for
10:13why you could make a case. Ideally, if you're trying to like really paint a picture of self-sabotage,
10:18I would point to preseason game number two before I'd point to what happened in week one
10:22right here. I mean, preseason game number two and the post game press conference that
10:25happened afterwards. If you talk about self-sabotage, that was a man asking to be not
10:30starting week one. Well, dude, like my interpretation of what happened after that Buffalo game was
10:34him taking himself out of the quarterback competition. Like that's kind of how I thought
10:38that it should have happened in most normal spots that would have happened that way.
10:42That's like how it came off. But, but, but like the bizarre part about it, you know,
10:46it was and why I definitely don't think that it is like self-sabotage is because there were
10:51some hits that he took in that Jaguars game where I was kind of wondering, like, is he
10:55going to pop back up? Like, like there were some times where he got popped and I was like,
11:00well, if you ever wanted to just roll over and pretend like none of this happened, like
11:03he had the opportunity, but I guess if he deserves any credit, which he really doesn't, at least
11:09he was continuing to get up and go to the line as a scrimmage. And they're making them
11:14earn this money. They, they certainly are doing that.
11:16All right. 2-1-6-4-7-4-2-0-92. Is there an element of self-sabotage with Deshaun?
11:21Kevin
11:21up next on the fan. What's up, Kevin?
11:24Hey, yeah, this is Kevin from Cleveland, man. I, I, it's like so many directions I can point
11:30at with this guy. You know, every one of my friends, even my 72 year old mother doesn't
11:35like the way he plays and the statements he made at that Buffalo game. I was there at the
11:40Buffalo game with my friend JJ. And when that hand got hit, I didn't, I was pretty far back.
11:46I couldn't actually see, but to me, it looked like he just threw the ball on the, on the,
11:50on the grass. And then the stadium erupted in booze. Like this guy is horrible. He was
11:57horrible. Now I can't say like, I agree on, oh, when he got hurt, people were booing, but
12:02it led up to that. Just the bad playing, the bad throws, the attitude, you know, when
12:08you, when you, when you, when you had your injury and you're partying in Florida and
12:13you get re-injured, this goes back to me playing high school and listening to these
12:17coaches. You cannot play around. If you're going to be about business and get on this
12:22football field, be about business, be about the work ethic and stay in the work ethic.
12:27Don't go on partying. Don't go on hanging out all night. And just the, the stuff in
12:32Texas, he looked it good. And the warning signs was there to me. I honestly think he
12:37cannot read the play. He don't know which, which way to angle to throw the ball. And
12:42I was listening to 92 to three, the fan, uh, uh, earlier last, maybe about two years
12:47ago. And they were explaining that Deshaun Watson had a assistant that he would look to
12:53the sideline when the players was called and he threw the play out there.
12:58So that was the Charles Robinson report. Yeah, Kevin, I appreciate you. That was the Charles
13:01Robinson report about, uh, in his, the headset in his helmet. And it was, and obviously in
13:06the NFL that gets cut off with 15 seconds left to go, but Bill O'Brien was telling him
13:09everything. Now what's different here, uh, Nick is the idea that it seems like, uh, he's
13:15doing a lot at the line. I mean, it seems like Munkin is asking a lot of, of these quarterbacks
13:19as far as to what different protections, what to check into, what to check out of.
13:23So it kind of made me giggle in the spring. Like the first time, the first time Watson
13:27spoke, and it was like the first time we had heard from him in 18 months. And he was talking
13:31about the fact that he liked, you know, all the control that he could have at the line
13:35of scrimmage and in changing plays and audible in and out of things. And I do remember kind
13:39of like giggling to myself at the time. Cause it was really when, you know, the Browns
13:42were trying to prime us for the fact that Deshaun Watson was starting. And you know, the narrative
13:47was very much so, well, look at this. He's saying how much he loves this new fit with Todd
13:52Munkin and that he's going to have, you know, he used the Tom Brady treatment was what Deshaun
13:57said that you get in this offense. And he said it was very similar to what he had in
14:01Houston with Bill O'Brien, but everybody forgets about exactly what we're talking about here.
14:05That's that Charles Robinson report saying, well, Bill O'Brien was doing an awfully lot
14:09of handholding for you. Like maybe you and Bill O'Brien were sharing a plate. Like all
14:13of that was not on your plate. Yeah. And it's something that I, if I was Munkin and Munkin
14:18denied actually talking to Bill O'Brien at any point, if I was Munkin, maybe I would
14:22have reached out and reached out to Bill O'Brien and maybe heard exactly how it was
14:26done and maybe what you can and cannot do to replicate some of that. But Munkin loves
14:30he's hardheaded, but he loves his own way. And that can be to a fault sometimes. And
14:33I think in this instance, it might've been to a fault reached out to Dabo. Dabo came
14:37by. That was great. But like, that's not, that's not really what I wanted to see. I wanted
14:40to see you talk to Bill O'Brien for some reason, but that wasn't in the cards.
14:44Like, isn't this sad though, that like, this is also what it, what's devolved into
14:48like, like Bill O'Brien was his coach when he was in his early twenties. He turned 31
14:56yesterday. Yeah, I know. Isn't that kind of sad, but if you're going to try to revive
14:59the only time that he was good, that's where we have to go to. We have to go to the
15:02time
15:02when he was in his early twenties. We have to, we have to discuss what did actually make
15:06the light bulb go on and what worked for him. And if there's anything they can actually
15:10get out of it, I maintain there isn't, I think he's cooked. We've talked about this
15:14a lot, this off season about my belief in that. And now we're starting to see it in
15:18the regular season. It's just when the Browns will wake up and realize that two
15:21one, six, four, seven, four, double O 92. Ken in Aurora. You're up next in the fan.
15:26What's up, Ken. Hey fellows. Good afternoon. I've been laughing my head off.
15:31Listen to you guys saying that everybody knows that Deshaun Watson is who we thought
15:36he is yet. The coaching staff does not seem to see that. So that's shocker. Number
15:42one, number two, you asked the question earlier, what does he have to do to get
15:46benched? Yeah. I hope whatever that is, he doesn't accomplish it. Cause I want to
15:51see him get booed out of the stadium. I want to see Cleveland fans, let them know
15:59I've heard Munkin for the last two weeks, say the fans don't matter. I want to hear
16:03them nonstop talk about how bad they were booed and they have no choice to go to
16:09Shador. And lastly, Mary Kay, I like her too, but I don't understand what she was
16:14watching in the second half. He couldn't manage or control the offense at all.
16:19Delay a game, delay a game. It was pathetic. So I'll let you go. Thank you.
16:23All right. Thank you, Ken. I appreciate you. Yeah. I think it does kind of have a, a,
16:27for me, I love historical Cleveland sports stuff and it just kind of feels like
16:31we're going to, we're entering one. If he does make the week three start, we're
16:35entering one where, you know, going into it, that that's going to be something that
16:38people talk about for the next, I don't know, 30 years. Like the game that
16:41Deshaun just got obliterated with booze after booze, after booze, every time he
16:46touched the ball. You can see it. You can see like the making of a great Cleveland
16:48sports story. I've been liking it. I've been likening it to LeBron's first game back
16:54in Cleveland as a member of the Miami Heat. Every time he touched the ball,
16:57everyone just booed like crazy. But then he was awesome in that game. Right.
17:01But maybe that's what, you know, week three becomes like, like that sort of
17:05environment for a home player would be, would be bananas. It would be bananas for
17:08a home player. But funny thing about the NFL and how this works is that he'd get
17:12booed like crazy. But then if he actually converted a couple of first downs, you'd
17:16watch as the game moves on and it would go into cheers pretty quickly. Let's find
17:20out, you know, you, you mentioned Todd Munkin saying that the fans don't matter.
17:23Ken and Aurora did on the phone there. We'll find out. Do the fans matter?
17:26Yeah. Don't threaten me with a good time. I'd love to see some booze. I'd sign up for
17:30some booze, but I'm a, I'm a boo guy though. We've established this in the
17:33show. I got no problems with standing up and booing things that I don't like or
17:36don't appreciate. I'd boo like crazy if I was going to the game.
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