00:00Jory Epstein from Yahoo Sports, NFL reporter, joins us right now on the Wise Art Right.
00:04We make it right.
00:05Call Kyle Wright.
00:06Hotline.
00:07Hi, Jory.
00:07Thanks for joining us again.
00:08Hi, Jory.
00:10Andy, Jeff, great to be on with you.
00:11Thanks for having me.
00:12Okay.
00:13So, you know, it's been a little hectic around here for the last week trying to figure out
00:18this quarterback situation.
00:19Just, you know, from 10,000 feet, having been around, you know, Berea a little bit here,
00:23what are your thoughts on what played out with the quarterback situation as Shador Sanders
00:28will be the number two and Deshaun Watson will be the number one?
00:32Yeah, absolutely.
00:33I think there's always two elements, at least two elements in the media industry, which is
00:36what do we think should have happened?
00:38What do we believe?
00:39And how did they come to this decision?
00:40So when I was reporting on this, it wasn't about what I think they should do.
00:43It was, well, what did they think and how did they come to kind of pull back that curtain?
00:47So in my story on Yahoo, I really talked about that of, look, they do think it was close.
00:52I think there were different people in the building who value different things and you
00:56kind of have that element and then you say, well, week one at Jacksonville, what's most
01:02important for this team?
01:03According to Todd Monken, who this decision ultimately came down to and who has talked
01:07publicly on the record about this, of course, and you need someone who, when you're doing
01:11the silent count, when you're getting into that cadence, all of those pre-snap operations,
01:16I think the staff felt most confident that Deshaun Watson would be able to run cleanly and
01:22then thus set up himself and the people around him for success.
01:25Obviously, we'll see if that's correct and that's right.
01:27I mean, I think back to early August when I visited the Browns on my training camp tour
01:32and Todd and I were talking, he was essentially like, look, you can't know.
01:36He had a great quote about when he was in Baltimore.
01:39He's like, if the Ravens knew what Lamar Jackson would be, would they have sat him for
01:42all those games?
01:43If the Chiefs knew it was Patrick Mahomes, would they have sat him the first year?
01:47No.
01:47So you kind of figure out when you can't have a fully apples-to-apples competition
01:51based off your reps and practice, your preseason games, what you value most, and then you solve
01:56for that.
01:57I don't think that means that Deshaun Watson is guaranteed the starting position through
02:01the season, but I think week one, and I would be surprised, barring injury, if he's not starting
02:05week two.
02:07Week two, you think?
02:09Do you think he's the starter week four?
02:12If it doesn't go real well, Jory, that's what I wonder.
02:15It's an easier pivot, I think, to go from Deshaun to Shadour than it would be the other
02:19way around.
02:21And you see that a lot around the league with that potential pivot between a veteran player
02:25and a younger player.
02:27And I started my training camp tour in Minnesota when, at the time, they were still having a
02:31quarterback competition between Kyler Murray and J.J.
02:34McCarthy, and there's kind of the same thing of, like, if you have that young guy who you
02:38drafted, and obviously J.J., even in a different sense, is a first-round pick, and then you
02:42try and go to the vet, you can't really come back to the young guy.
02:45But if you go from the vet, in some ways, I mean, look, let's say, I'll answer your question
02:49on week four in a minute, but let's say Shadour Sanders starts somewhere between week three
02:53and week five through the season, roughly.
02:56He'll probably be better off, not because he'll be more ready only, but because the
03:00offense will probably look a little better.
03:02You've got an offensive line with new pieces that needs to get settled.
03:04You've got young receivers in Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston who are going to be acclimating
03:09to the pro game.
03:10So I think most of the league thinks those first three to four weeks, nothing's really
03:15going to be settled, and you kind of just have to get through it, especially for offensive
03:18line play, given how non-physical training camps are these days in that regard.
03:22They're going to be that.
03:23So I actually think, and maybe this is my A's and B's, Shadour might not agree with me,
03:27that Shadour might actually be in a better position if he starts a few weeks in than week
03:32one.
03:33As it relates to week four, I really think it depends on what does it look like week one and
03:37week two.
03:37Obviously, you guys saw the boos, obviously we saw Deshaun's comments after the boos.
03:41I think to me, his semi-apology the next day, or on Monday, I'm losing track of days, was
03:48probably more about the locker room than it was about the fans, because I think it's kind
03:51of sending a message to the locker room of like, I'm not going to keep making this an
03:56issue.
03:56But I do think that the boos, it would be disingenuous to not consider that at all if week
04:02one and two go really poorly.
04:03But I think most teams believe that when a fan base or group is unhappy, if you get
04:09a couple wins or if the offense looks good, you have a better chance of having fewer boos
04:15when you get back.
04:16Now, the question becomes, what if the offense looks good, but they lose?
04:20Or they're winning games, but it's because Jared versus falling out and the offense, and
04:25particularly Deshaun at quarterback, are not looking good?
04:27Or what if they're average?
04:28Like, that's where the decision becomes complicated.
04:30If you're really good or really bad, it's a pretty clear decision what to do.
04:34When you're in between, you start to be like, I don't know, what do we have here?
04:39I just want to go back on this one point here.
04:41I mean, he admitted that his emotions got the best of him from Saturday.
04:46And I'm just, when you say he, that that, everything that he said, was it on Monday?
04:52That it was about, you think it was more about the locker room than the fans?
04:56I just want to make sure I got it right.
04:57It doesn't mean I'm right.
04:58But I think, I think that at some point, I guess what I should say, I think it will impact
05:05the locker room more than the fans.
05:07I'm not going to try and get inside his mind in terms of his intentions, because I haven't
05:10talked to him about it.
05:11But I think there are plenty of people who say, okay, Deshaun's comments, who in the fan
05:16base that booed is changing their mind because on Monday he said, my emotions got the best
05:21of me.
05:22They were booing before he said the comments.
05:23So I don't think they're now going to change their mind.
05:26What I do think is that you have to show the locker room that it's not going to be, I
05:30think
05:30you do this because you're the leader of a locker room where you have had internal momentum.
05:34And if you start to become a distraction in the way that those comments absolutely were,
05:39that becomes an issue.
05:40So I believe that's where some minds might be changed.
05:44I think fan base minds are harder to change, but maybe if you win games or ball out, then they
05:49do more about like the old saying of having reporters having to ask questions to other
05:54players about you and your, that's what that's about.
05:58Okay.
05:58I just want to make sure we're on the same page.
05:59I mean, it's kind of this element of like, I think Deshaun meant what he said on Saturday
06:03about the fans.
06:04But I think his comments had consequences on people who he might not have intended them
06:09to have consequences on, which includes Todd Munkin, includes the ownership and leadership
06:15group for the team, includes his teammates.
06:16And so I think by saying that you try and no longer have the consequences extend to people
06:21outside of you.
06:23Jory, if Shadur is not the starting quarterback, is that an indictment on what they think of
06:29him as a possible long-term quarterback of this team?
06:34Are you asking if he's not a starting quarterback week one, or if he's not the quarterback at
06:39all this season?
06:41Week one.
06:43I mean, you have draft picks sitting there for 2027.
06:50And to me, this decision screams, all right, we're getting a quarterback next year.
06:54And I would think Shadur starts at some point this year, but, and if they really wanted to
06:59see if he was the guy, shouldn't he be starting now?
07:02I would be surprised also if he doesn't start at some point this year.
07:06I think in terms of him starting now, I think, if you look at Todd Munkin's comments, he did
07:10say it's not week to week, so it's important to say that.
07:13He also was like, Deshaun Watson will start against the Jacksonville Jaguars.
07:17Deshaun Watson is our week one starter.
07:19Ultimately, this is about week one.
07:21I mean, I think the language to me felt very much like this is what it is for now.
07:24I don't think it's an indictment on Shadur the rest of the season, because I think the
07:27season hasn't started yet, and I expect Shadur to play and start some games this season,
07:31and so I think that's what it will be about.
07:33Now, yes, clearly the two first-round picks in 2027 and the expected quarterback class
07:38for 2027 are on everyone's mind, and I think they will continue to be when you're at this
07:42stage of a team life cycle.
07:43They can't say it out loud.
07:44I would call it a rebuild, a rebuild that wants to set you up to be competitive in 2027.
07:49And so, to me, there's what is Shadur due by the end of that, and also, let's say they
07:54take someone in the first round in 2027, which feels like a realistic and likely possibility
07:59right now, but of course, we have more information between now and then on what the quarterbacks
08:03look like on the Browns and in college.
08:06That doesn't mean that they're starting week one.
08:07Like, it could easily, even if you don't have the first overall, like, if Fernando Mendoza
08:11is the first overall pick, it's unlikely to start week one because you have a bridge quarterback.
08:15How much more so someone taken later in the draft, which seems where they're likely to
08:19be, might not be starting week one.
08:21So, I don't think it's unrealistic that Shadur could be starting at the beginning of
08:24next year, but I think whether he'll be the ultimate starter, like, he's going to have
08:29to play his way into that through the course of this season.
08:32Jory Epstein from Yahoo Sports joining us on the YSR, right?
08:35We make a right call, Kyle Wright hotline.
08:37I'm just curious, especially with the people that you talk to on the inside, how close was
08:42it to make that decision?
08:44I know they're saying that he won because they felt he could push the ball down the
08:48field against Jacksonville, and they had a better opportunity to score with Watson,
08:51but how close was it?
08:55Yeah, I think to me, I do think it was close, and to me, close in the sense of they
09:00each
09:01offered different strengths, and so it's not like if you braid them on the exact same
09:05things, one's a little bit better.
09:07I think if you want that week one, like, you have Deshaun.
09:11Well, he's got the athleticism.
09:13He's got the operation.
09:14I quote someone saying this in the story.
09:16He's really good pre-snap.
09:17Shadour has an accuracy, a poise in the pocket, drop back passer, creating off schedule, but
09:21not necessarily the same quarterback design run.
09:23I don't think this decision was made off Deshaun's athleticism.
09:26I think it was the pre-snap.
09:27But to me, I do think there are areas in which Shadour is stronger, probably now and certainly
09:33in terms of his potential relative to Deshaun at this stage of his career.
09:37But those were not ultimately the areas that became the deciding factors.
09:41So short answer, yes, I believe it was close, but close in the sense that their different
09:46strengths ended up making it close rather than their same strengths were close in what
09:50they looked like.
09:51Let me throw this hypothetical at you just because it's history.
09:54A year ago, you had Kenny Pickett, Joe Flacco, Shadour Sanders, and Dylan Gabriel sitting
09:59here.
10:00And then before week one, they said, okay, we're going to let Kenny go.
10:05Then Joe starts and you get a little bit into the season and now Joe's gone.
10:10And now you're sitting with Shadour and Dylan still on this team and then you add Deshaun
10:15to it.
10:16What do you think the chances are that they're kind of looking to the outside here too and
10:20maybe want to bring another element into this thing, maybe by either trading Dylan or maybe
10:26even trading Shadour early in the season?
10:30And we're also wondering what the thoughts are on Taylor and Green.
10:33But history will tell us that last year, the front office wasn't scared to make moves this
10:39late in the game to try to shake up the quarterback room.
10:43Is there any chance that happens this year?
10:46Yeah, I think when you talk about trades, you need trade value to make a trade.
10:51So I'm not super convinced.
10:53Bill and her store has a lot of trade value.
10:55I could be wrong.
10:56I've been saying before.
10:58I think that both of them have their complications for different reasons.
11:02But I think that you might have some shake up.
11:06I also don't, I don't really see the Browns going outside to add to the room as of now,
11:11because if you're being realistic about where you are in the team life cycle, and this is
11:15some version of a rebuild with the goal of being competitive in 2027, resources you use
11:20to get a quarterback for this year when you might not be ready to fully contend, keep you
11:25from being able to contend next year or take away from your resources to contend next year.
11:29So I'm not saying they're mailing it in.
11:31And when I talked to Jared Burst on my training camp tour, he's like, I want everyone to know
11:34that we're not tanking this year.
11:35We're not just like buckling up.
11:37And none of the players are.
11:38All these players are fighting for their jobs.
11:39All these players care about their craft.
11:40But I think that you consider your allocation of resources in the short to medium term,
11:45which to me makes me feel like generally the quarterback room and the quarterbacks on the
11:49field for Cleveland are going to be the ones that are already in the house this year.
11:55Awesome.
11:56Jory, thank you for being with us.
11:58We appreciate it as always.
11:59And you can follow Jory on X and Instagram at Jory Epstein.
12:05J-O-R-I-E-P-S-T-E-I-N.
12:09Jory, thanks a million.
12:10We do appreciate you.
12:12Andy, Jeff, thanks for having me on.
12:13I'll talk to you soon.
12:14Thanks, Jory.
12:14All right.
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