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This edition of News Today examines public order and protest rights following a Supreme Court hearing on the July 20 student demonstrations.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination news,
00:04newsmakers, talking points. Tuesday night, news without the noise. Let's tell you what our big
00:09talking point tonight is. Public order versus the right to protest. Where is the line to be drawn?
00:15This big question on a day when the Delhi police affidavit in the Supreme Court claims
00:20no unnecessary force was used against the CJP protesters. Among my guests, I'll be joined
00:26by the CJP's Saurav Das, who is countering the Delhi police's claims. We'll also tell you
00:33whether the Jarkhand students' protests is finally over or not. What's the situation on the ground?
00:41And a little bit on the new BJP IT cell that's been appointed. Will it have a familiar track record
00:48of abuse or is it a new digital reset? Plenty to talk about, but first as always, it's time
00:56for the nine headlines at nine. The Supreme Court says it will set up a high-powered committee to
01:03examine allegations of police excesses during the student protests in Jantharmantar. Delhi and
01:11Bihar cops deny using brute force on protesters in court.
01:19Jarkhand students are divided after the Sorain government cancels the JSSE GSL exam. One of their key demands,
01:27Mahato breaks the hunger strike, but a section of the students say they will continue with the stir
01:32till a CBI probe is in place.
01:37U.S. President Donald Trump hails voter IDs in India, says CEC of India, Gyanesh Kumar questioned
01:44U.S.'s election process, calls for passage of a Save America Act for stricter voter identification.
01:54Amidst controversy and suspense, the PM cares fund data finally made public. Balance in corpus has risen
02:01to over 8,400 crores. Congress questions why just 0.01% of the funds have been used by the
02:08government
02:09so far.
02:11UP Home Department submits the final SIT report to Ram Mandir Trust over Chandachori. SIT gives clean
02:18shit to ex-General Secretary Champath Rai. Role of former trustee Anil Mishra remains under the lens.
02:27An e-tender for Tamil Nadu Chief Minister Vijay's office sparks a row. BJP alleges corruption in
02:35the tender process. Claims tender floated one month after construction had already commenced.
02:43Actor Trisha dragged into Tamil Nadu politics yet again. DMK mouthpiece slams Chief Minister Vijay over
02:50her presence in the stands during an Independence Day event, calls it vulgar and disgusting.
02:59Rescue operations in Chamoli end after six days. Dead body of the last man recovered by the authority.
03:05Today 10 workers lost their lives after an under construction tunnel collapsed on August 13.
03:13And Pakistan's Supreme Court orders ex-PM Imran Khan to be moved from jail to a hospital amidst rising
03:20concerns over his health. Imran has been behind bars since August 2023 after being accused in several
03:27cases that he says are politically motivated.
03:34But let's turn to tonight's top story that comes from the Supreme Court, which held a marathon
03:39hearing today to look at the issues surrounding the controversial July 20th student protests that
03:48had turned violent in the national capital and put the center on the defensive and also resulted in the
03:56resignation of Education Minister Dharamendra Pradhan. Today, the Delhi police told the court in a sworn
04:03affidavit that there was no excessive use of force and the force that was used was only in the context
04:11of the
04:12protest turning violence. It was a claim that was also endorsed by the Union Parliamentary Affairs Minister
04:19Kiran Rejuju, who said the forces had shown exemplary restraint. Typically, the opposition, though,
04:27is not buying the version made by the Delhi police before the court. The court itself has said that they
04:34will now form a committee of senior judges and police officers to examine exactly what happened on the 20th of
04:43July, including the claims that pellet guns were used on peaceful protesters. Take a look at our top story tonight.
04:56Nearly a month after the crackdown on violent CJP protesters across the nation, the personnel who took
05:03on the protesters are presenting their version in the Supreme Court, explaining just why they used force.
05:13These affidavits by the state police come after petitions sought court monitored probe into the
05:19alleged brutal use of force by police in different states.
05:25Delhi police in its affidavit has defended the use of force and claimed that while the right to peaceful
05:32protest is a fundamental right, the protest that began from Janatar Mantar turned violent.
05:42Delhi police also stated that personnel on the ground exercised maximum restraint
05:47while using only the minimum required force to control thousands of protesters.
05:54Police also maintains that anti-social elements and history-sheeters infiltrated the protest
06:00while the mob was turning violent and marching towards the parliament.
06:10Union minister Kiran Rijiju has also come out in strong defense of the Delhi police.
06:15We have said that we will protest. They say that they don't want to listen to the government's answer.
06:21Just tell us that someone is running.
06:24And when someone is running, then where is the question of who is running?
06:31The pellet guns are hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of hundreds of sports.
06:43It wasn't just a protest and police crackdown in Delhi that had caught the nation's attention.
06:51And AK-47 wielding cop firing shots became one of the most defining images of CJP's stir in Bihar Siwal.
07:00Now Bihar police told the apex court that a mob had trapped constable holding AK-47
07:06and then he fired four rounds in the air to disperse the crowd.
07:15Even though the SGF constable is already suspended and the Siwan superintendent now removed from his place.
07:23Meanwhile, top court is vowed to constitute a committee comprising a former Supreme Court judge,
07:28a former Chief Justice of a High Court and a senior retired police officer
07:32to investigate the excessive use of force amid the protest.
07:37Bureau Report, India Today.
07:43Okay, let's go to our first newsmaker on that top story.
07:46The co-convener of the Kokruj Janata Party, Saurav Das, now joins me.
07:50Saurav was in the court when that hearing took place today.
07:54Saurav marathon hearing today on the Kokruj Janata Party protests in the Supreme Court.
08:00And the Delhi police in its affidavit makes it very clear that they claim there was no excessive use of
08:06force at any stage
08:07on the 20th of July against the peaceful protesters.
08:10The force was only used when there was an attempt to break the barricades.
08:14There was no targeting of peaceful protesters.
08:18This is what their affidavit very, very clearly states.
08:22Your response?
08:25Nothing surprising, Rajdeep.
08:26I don't think any DCP or any police officer who's filing such an affidavit.
08:31It was the DCP of New Delhi District, Sachin Sharma, who filed this affidavit.
08:36No one from the police force was expected to be filing an affidavit accepting all the crimes that their police
08:44force has done that day.
08:46Because, you know, they are saying it was professional force was used, you know, restraint was shown.
08:52But it is open for anyone in this world to actually go on the internet and see the kind of
08:58visuals that came out on July 20th.
09:02Women were molested.
09:04They were sexually assaulted.
09:06Batons were inserted, were trying to be inserted inside their bodies.
09:10The aim was taken at the heads of the protesters.
09:13The aim was to break it.
09:16There was, you know, brute force that was used against these protesters.
09:21And all of it is available online.
09:23No, no.
09:24You know, you're claiming all of this is available online.
09:28But as per the police, I have to go by that affidavit, which is filed now in the court.
09:33They are claiming over 200 of the policemen injured.
09:36Stones were pelted against them.
09:38They claim today in the court they have identified over 2,800 criminals who they claim were part of the
09:45protests.
09:45So, obviously, they've gone to court to give their version of events.
09:50You are repudiating that.
09:52But such time as the court gives its final hearing or ruling, we have their affidavit versus the evidence that
10:00you are claiming exists online of the Cockroach Janta Party.
10:03So, it's two different versions.
10:08See, the entire affidavit is silent on who gave the orders for the pellet guns to be fired.
10:13That question has not been addressed.
10:15Why was so much brute force used?
10:18It was against the SOP.
10:19The batons were being, you know, charged on the protesters, not below the hip, which is as per the SOP,
10:25but the aim was being taken on the head.
10:27So, none of these questions have been addressed by the affidavit.
10:30Of course, they would take a defense of their own actions.
10:33Now, the court has to see, you know, they have to judge the evidence, which is also before them.
10:39200 policemen injured.
10:41Now, when I went, I personally went to the hospitals where these policemen were also there, along with the protesters.
10:47The doctors there told me, off the record, of course, that they were all soft tissue injury.
10:53Of course, you know, when they're controlling the crowd, someone would fall, somebody would be pushed here and there.
10:58All of that would happen.
10:59But to say that, to portray it in a manner as though some serious injury took place, I am not
11:05refusing the fact that perhaps couple of police officers would have been seriously injured because of this.
11:10But the manner in which they are portraying that 200 police officers were injured, it's actually misleading the court.
11:18And, you know, you just look at one place where the affidavit says that the name tags were taken off.
11:25Just see the kind of excuse they have given over there.
11:28Of course, the name tags were taken off initially, not even during the controlling of the protest.
11:35But even before that, the name tags were off, somebody who would have ordered that, who was that person?
11:41Amit Shah does not come to parliament.
11:42They lie in the affidavit.
11:44They mislead the court in the affidavit.
11:46Of course, I think, hopefully, the high-powered committee that the court indicates it will create will look into and
11:53go into these questions and come out with some proper findings.
11:58I'll come to the committee, Saurav, in a moment.
12:01But are you denying completely the claim made by the police in open court that they have identified more than
12:082,800 criminals who they claim were the part of the protests of July 20th, who they say resorted to
12:15violence?
12:20See, the petitioners, one of the lawyers from the petitioner side also raised this point.
12:25Does a person who has a police case against them, is that person barred from coming to a protest site?
12:33If that is so, the police should make it clear.
12:35If that is so, the MPs who are sitting in parliament and the number of half of the chief ministers
12:41of India who have criminal cases against them should not be sitting in the place that they are sitting in,
12:46right?
12:46So, number one, the constitutional question is that.
12:49But number two, if you have identified these people, what are you doing about it?
12:53Have you applied for their cancellation of bail?
12:56Because these history sheeters and hardened criminals must be out on bail in some case or the other, right?
13:03So, what have you done to prevent that?
13:04Why were they roaming?
13:05But are you denying sort of the, no, no, are you denying the existence of 2,800 criminals who perhaps
13:12entered your protests?
13:14The argument being made is they may have been pushed into the protests, possibly by vested interest to discredit you.
13:20But either way, can the Kaukruj Janta Party deny this fact, what the police claim?
13:30See, Rajdeep, I am not an investigative agency.
13:33It is for them to identify, it is for the courts to verify.
13:37However, I would say this, that history has shown that there are, you know, conspiracies at play.
13:43You know, peaceful protesters are conspired against.
13:46Everybody knows this fact.
13:48So, we have to be very circumspect when it comes to such theories.
13:51I would just say one thing for sure.
13:54The Supreme Court today gave two options to the union government.
13:59They said, number one, that we want to quash all the FIRs against all the protesters across the country using
14:06our Article 142 powers.
14:08Now, 142 powers is to do complete justice.
14:11The Supreme Court wants to do this.
14:13They told the union government three times during the hearing that we want to do this.
14:18So, give us a list of those FIRs.
14:20We'll quash it immediately and the case is over.
14:22The guarantee that was given by the union to us, the protesters on July 25th, would be then honored.
14:28It would make the union's life easier.
14:30But the government did not say anything on it.
14:32It did not commit to this.
14:34Number two, the union's, you know, objection was exactly this, that there are 2,800 hardened criminals who were identified
14:42through their facial recognition technology.
14:44The court then gave them another option that give a separate list of those identified hardened criminals who you want
14:52to proceed against.
14:53Have a separate list of those FIRs that you want to proceed against.
14:57But give us a list of FIRs that we can quash against the protesters, the young people, the Gen Z
15:04who are out there to protest.
15:05But the government did not commit to this.
15:07So, the government is trying to dishonor its commitments that it gave to the nation on July 25th.
15:15We will not accept this, Rajdeep.
15:16My final question, Saurav.
15:18You know, the court has come up today, has set up a committee.
15:21The court has said they are setting up a committee.
15:24It will include a former CBI judge.
15:27It will, CBI chief, a former Supreme Court judge.
15:31Are you all going to fully cooperate with this committee that the Supreme Court intends to set up shortly?
15:40See, Rajdeep, we are not a party before the court.
15:43The Cockroach and the party is not.
15:44However, if the Supreme Court thinks that justice will be met out only through this high-powered committee or whatever
15:51they name it,
15:52then we will, of course, support in whichever manner we can, right?
15:57However, at this point, I do want to tell you that the members of this committee who will be appointed,
16:04they should be people of high independence, of unimpeachable integrity.
16:08They should inspire confidence in the minds of the Gen Z, of the young generation who faced the brutality that
16:15day and ever since, right?
16:16The kind of harassment that women have been facing since they went out to protest.
16:21This committee and their members should inspire confidence.
16:24If they don't, if any track record of their comes out in public domain of a questionable pass,
16:30of a questionable, you know, tenure of theirs as CBI officer or as a judge of the High Court or
16:38Supreme Court or whatever,
16:40then we will question it.
16:41Because the committee should inspire confidence.
16:43It should hold credibility.
16:45If it does not, then it's a futile exercise.
16:48It's an eye wash.
16:49We will not support it.
16:50If the committee is truly, truly independent, our full support to the committee, the truth must come out.
16:57The guilty should be punished.
16:59Right.
17:00Saurabh Das, for joining me of the co-convener of the Cockroach Janta Party, thank you very much.
17:07So let's raise the big questions tonight.
17:09Was the police response genuinely proportionate as it claimed in the Supreme Court or did it cross the line into
17:17excessive force?
17:18Were the pellet injuries caused by minimum force?
17:22What explains the contradiction between the police's account of minimum force and evidence of pellet injuries?
17:29Was force necessary to handle the alleged lawbreakers?
17:34Will the presence of alleged troublemakers justify the police response?
17:39Did police fail in their crowd control discipline?
17:43Was there a breakdown in that?
17:45Public order versus right to protest.
17:48Where does the line get drawn?
17:50These are just some of the questions I will raise tonight.
17:53Joining me now is Senior Advocate Supreme Court Dushan Dave, also joined by Yashu Vardhan Azad, the senior police officer.
18:02Appreciate both of you joining us.
18:04We also hope to be joined by Vikram Singh of the former DG of Uttar Pradesh.
18:09But Dushan Dave, to you first.
18:12Purely from a legal point of view, what you saw in the court, there are two very different versions coming
18:18in.
18:18The police affidavit versus what has been claimed by the Kokruj Janata Party and others about the alleged use of
18:26force.
18:26Do you believe that what the court is doing is the right step forward, appointing a committee that will look
18:32into all the events rather than get caught in the politics of it?
18:39I think, I mean, what do you expect the police to do except, you know, defend themselves?
18:44So, the affidavit that has been filed by the police is, I mean, on unexpected lines, because that's what they've
18:50been saying from day one.
18:52Undisputably, they used force.
18:53It was a, you know, ruthless operation.
18:55It was an indiscriminate and brutal archery charge, followed by, you know, bursting of tear gas shells and, of course,
19:02use of pellet guns, which was completely, you know, uncalled for.
19:05So, we must understand one thing, Rajdeep, and this is what this nation has to really decide today and for
19:12all times to come.
19:13We are not a police state.
19:15We are a democracy.
19:16And in a democracy, this is not acceptable.
19:20Secondly, what is important is that the affidavit on behalf of the police is not filed either by the commissioner
19:26of police, Delhi, or, you know, the lieutenant governor himself, who should have filed.
19:30When I was a young, you know, lawyer defending the government in Gujarat High Court, Justice PD Desai would never
19:36have accepted such an affidavit from, you know, a low-ranking officer.
19:40He would have insisted the affidavit should come from the highest, you know, officer of the state, where, you know,
19:45but having said that, let me say, you know, two things.
19:48I mean, there is no doubt about the fact, and this is where I will, you know, read a very
19:53beautiful exchange between Secretary of State Morley and Lord Minto way back in 1908.
20:00When Minto was using excessive force and Morley writes a letter to him and says, this is what, you know,
20:06understanding how, you know, they, even in the worst regime of the Britishers, how they really questioned each other for
20:14the people of India.
20:15You see, the executive officers, great executive officers never like or trust lawyers.
20:21I will tell you why.
20:23I said because they don't like or trust the law.
20:26They in their hearts believe, before all else, virtue of will and arbitrary power.
20:31Then he says, I cannot on any terms whatsoever consent to defend such monstrous things.
20:37I do therefore urgently solicit your attention to these wrongs and follies.
20:41We must keep order.
20:43Now, just see this line.
20:44We must keep order.
20:45But excess of severity is not the path to order.
20:49On the contrary, it is path to bomb.
20:53Now, this is, you know, being said by a British Secretary of State to Lord Minto way back in 1908.
21:00You know, we can justify anything and everything.
21:03Why did the police not provide a secure environment to the students to protest?
21:09Why did they not identify 2,000-plus anti-social elements with such severe criminal records to be present there?
21:17Would they have allowed these people to be present if it was a rally organized by the Bharatiya Janta Party
21:23or the rally for Prime Minister Mr. Modi?
21:26Certainly not.
21:27So, why is it that they are now finding an excuse?
21:31See, these people were brought in only to create trouble.
21:34Police look the other way.
21:36I think this is completely unacceptable.
21:40And if Supreme Court has really power to see through this, they must see through and, you know, pull up
21:46the administration that why did you permit such nonsense to start in the first instance.
21:52Students were protesting.
21:54They had a right to protest.
21:55You cannot then turn around and say some violence took place.
21:59The force was undoubtedly unjustified in the first instance.
22:03The excessive force was completely unjustified.
22:09Well, with the right to protest is also the duty to maintain law and order, Yashu Vardhan Azad.
22:16You might have heard what Kiran Rejuju, the Parliamentary Affairs Minister, told us the other day.
22:20He said, look, he was complimenting the police at the end of the day, faced with a large crowd, 25
22:26,000, 30,000 some numbers, despite being outnumbered, despite the group insisting on marching towards the parliament.
22:34The police, according to him, showed exemplary restraint.
22:37So, there are two clear versions, excessive force versus exemplary restraint.
22:41Do you believe that this needs to, therefore, have a more nuanced picture than we have at the moment?
22:48Absolutely.
22:48Absolutely.
22:49And there is always a gray area in between.
22:51Let me divide this into three parts.
22:54First is because there's a lot of talk about the use of pellet guns per se.
22:58You're aware that I have moved a Supreme Court petition that the pellet guns should be banned per se.
23:04Now, pellet guns were not used after Kashmir in 2010 and 2016, and they were never used in the mainland.
23:13So, if they were used here, they were used because they were not banned.
23:18But how they were used should be definitely a part of judicial inquiry because of the injuries.
23:23We were already aware that the kind of injuries it causes, and there are a lot of reports in the
23:29Ministry of Home already regarding that.
23:32That's number one.
23:32Number two is whether the use in crowd control techniques were over the top.
23:40Now, if you compare this agitation with the NIRBH agitation, all the protests take the same route.
23:48That is, after the Lathi charge, which can never be mild, if you cross the barricades, if you're trying to
23:54reach parliament,
23:56obviously the police has to interfere in between, and there is going to be injuries on both sides.
24:02It happened also in that particular case.
24:05Now, the third part of it is, why didn't the government negotiate right in the beginning?
24:09The first part of SOP, standard operating protocol procedure, is that the government should at least have interlocutors and negotiate
24:18with them.
24:19No one negotiated.
24:20All the fault came to the police.
24:22In the third part, you will see, there was also violence against the police.
24:28Now, we have to balance it.
24:29Definitely police indulged in unprofessional acts.
24:33Definitely.
24:33If you have a uniform with dunda-wielding people, one stone throw will provoke them and they'll go berserk.
24:42They started hating bystanders.
24:43They misbehaved with the ladies.
24:47There is no place in crowd control to use a force without name badges.
24:53You cannot have people in plain clothes using Lathis.
24:57So, yes, the judicial inquiry which may come, or the committee, is really welcome for these aspects.
25:04But let me tell you one thing, Rajdeep.
25:07In the end, all the crowd control measures, once they fail, once they defy the prohibitory orders, this is exactly
25:16the route it takes.
25:18The exact issue is forgotten and the police brutality moves in.
25:22And if the police force is ill-funded, you know, they should have operated in closed formations like the Roman
25:29shields.
25:30They should have kneecaps.
25:32They should have visors.
25:33They should have knee-huggers.
25:34And if they act in closed formations, then they are able to ward off crowd.
25:40Otherwise, one of them, they panic and they use it like this.
25:43But the problem is that the state governments will never spend anything.
25:47The police will always be like this.
25:50And in the end, we'll be saying police acted with restraint and the other side will call it brutality.
25:57Right.
25:59You know, let me just put in what Rahul Gandhi has said.
26:03The Congress leader has just said that Kiran Rejuju, who lauded the Delhi police on their role over the July
26:1020th violence,
26:11L.O.P. Rahul Gandhi has targeted the union minister, saying half a kilometer from parliament, pellet guns were fired
26:18at peaceful students.
26:19Lathis studied with nails were used.
26:21One child's eye was lost.
26:23One girl's ear was severed.
26:25Should we praise this brutality?
26:27The fundamental mantra of this government, he claims, is untruth and violence.
26:32The truth is that the biggest danger to this country comes from those empty-headed people who neither see their
26:39own mistakes nor admit to them, even when they do.
26:41Now, Vikram Singh, the police is very emphatic today in their affidavit.
26:46We have showed maximum restraint, exemplary restraint.
26:50Have the police got tangled in politics yet again?
26:53Because this issue has become so politically surcharged, whatever the police says in court is being seen through a political
27:00lens.
27:02Good evening, gentlemen.
27:03I would not like to believe that the police are now mangled in politics because that will be an unmistakable
27:09tragedy, an administrative tragedy of the worst kind.
27:12I would say and I would believe that the Delhi police displayed exemplary patience and forbearance.
27:17But yes, there have been mistakes and misdemeanors from both the sides.
27:21When was the last time that you heard that the police commissioner being unceremoniously removed?
27:25What is the mistake?
27:27Again, I'm telling you the mistake, number one, the commitment that the mistake was made when you shifted the police
27:33commissioner unceremoniously in the midst of all this agitation.
27:37Number one, there is a procedure of getting security for good behavior and getting those pabans for at least 500
27:43people and preventive arrest.
27:45Not a single preventive arrest.
27:47And I don't know whether 500 people were booked and chaland under the former 107 and 106.
27:53Second, that the fact that the GD at 1.42 was disclosed after 48 hours.
28:00Normally, every day there should be a press briefing that so many rounds were fired.
28:04You don't have to take 48 hours to say that pellet guns were fired.
28:08Why did GD report such and such at 1.42 a.m.?
28:11And the moment you try to do things that delay matters, that gives the suspicion in the minds of the
28:15people.
28:16To the earlier learned speaker, that 3,000 anti-social and criminal elements came.
28:20This was a deception that was exercised by devious elements.
28:24The police do not have mind-reading or telepathic powers.
28:28They did use the facial recognition software.
28:30But the mistake was, as my learned friend, Mr. Yashuv and the other, said, you are not supposed to, I
28:36mean, carry baiters.
28:37Plains, because policemen are a part of essential duty, but they are not supposed to carry baiters.
28:41Secondly, the force use was absolutely proportionate.
28:44What the leader of opposition said.
28:46But till this date, Mr. Vikram Singh, Mr. Vikram Singh, no, no, but Mr. Vikram Singh, till date, the police
28:52is not admitting to use of pellet guns.
28:55Both on the floor of the parliament, ministers have said no pellet guns used.
28:59Even in their affidavit, there is no admission to the use of pellet guns, even though, as I keep reiterating,
29:05we've had pellet gun injury victims in our studio.
29:08So, how does one then, is the police living in denial?
29:13Is the government living in denial?
29:16Rajdeep, sir, when the GD entry of 1.42 says that the DCP of Delhi police have forgotten,
29:22they've ordered the firing of these pellet guns and these ammunition, I don't see how anyone can deny that GD
29:28entry.
29:28GD entry is one conclusive evidence that is acceptable even in the Supreme Court.
29:33Once you have a GD entry, how can you say that you did not use pellet guns?
29:36The RAF GD says that they use pellet guns and the number, I wish I had the GD entry report,
29:43I would have shown to you.
29:46Right.
29:48You know, so it's coming, Dushan Dave, again, to right to protest versus a duty to maintain law and order.
29:56The court has to, you know, there is a fine balance there.
30:00You can always have the right to protest.
30:03What about the duty, Dushan Dave, to maintain law and order?
30:09If, God forbid, these protesters had entered parliament, then the police would have found themselves in an even tougher spot.
30:16The question is whether the protesters were trying to enter the parliament or were the, you know, 2,000 plus
30:23anti-social elements
30:24who had, you know, merged amongst themselves trying to enter the parliament at the instance of the police and the
30:30Bharatiya Janta Party.
30:31I mean, let's be very blunt about it.
30:33I am not prepared to accept the statement.
30:35No, that's a very serious allegation.
30:37Yes, it is.
30:39It is a very serious allegation.
30:41I cannot believe that the police did not recognize these individuals when they were loitering around in this area.
30:48Every policeman knows who are the anti-social elements in Delhi.
30:52They are supposed to know that.
30:54They had crowd identification cameras all over.
30:57So, I mean, please don't give me this.
30:59Undoubtedly, there is law and order which we have to maintain.
31:02But law and order can't be maintained in this fashion where you use this kind of an excessive force.
31:08As Yashu Wardenji rightly pointed out, that why did the police not create a wall of barricade to stop these
31:15people going in?
31:16They wanted this to happen.
31:17They wanted some students to climb on barricades.
31:21So, just a minute, Mr. Singh.
31:23They wanted these things to happen because they were looking for, you know, excuse to start Lathi Chaj.
31:30Let us remember one thing, that it was Lathi Chaj which really resulted in death of one of India's greatest
31:37sons of soil, Lala Dajpat Rai.
31:39Lathi Chaj is not a very simple thing.
31:42You cannot use Lathis against future generation of Indians.
31:46These are our children.
31:47I mean, it is inexcusable.
31:50And why was...
31:51Sir, when the other day...
31:54Is police from the front?
31:57No, no, but...
31:58No, it was not leading from the front.
31:59Therefore, you know, there are many things which really are unsaid here.
32:04There are many things which are really shoved under the carpet.
32:07There is no honest inquiry.
32:09Let me tell you something very drastic.
32:12When General Dreyer appeared before the Hunter Commission, after what he did, the, you know, worst kind of brutality,
32:18he said that I entered there with clear understanding in my mind that I am going to crush them.
32:25And the lanes were narrow, so I could not carry the machine gun, otherwise I would have killed more people.
32:31That is the mentality which unfortunately has survived even after independence with the police.
32:36And I don't think it can be justified in the garb of...
32:40You know, I...
32:41I'm going to call your daughter, resign.
32:43But you can't say...
32:45Okay, I just...
32:45I...
32:48Okay, I...
32:50You know, you're making very strong allegations.
32:52I want the two police officers to respond to them very, very clearly as we end this debate.
32:57First, you, Vikram Singh.
32:58Do you really believe that the police would deliberately allow a situation to be created that anti-social elements take
33:04over?
33:06Nothing would be more absurd than to have a postulate or even a suggestion like that.
33:10No police force would ever do.
33:12And to expect policemen and the police officers anywhere in the world to have supernatural powers,
33:17to have and identify and nail anti-social elements in such a situation would be absolutely absurd.
33:24But yes, the police did what they could.
33:25And maybe it was a late response.
33:28But I would say, again, I would compliment that the Delhi police did, were caught on the wrong foot initially,
33:32but then they put their act together and they did act decisively.
33:36But anybody marching right almost up to the parliament and to the PM house,
33:40well, there should be consequences for all those who think this was a so-called peaceful agitation.
33:45I don't know what the definition of peaceful agitation is.
33:52Very quickly, Yashu Vardana Azad, do you agree?
33:54Which side do you stand on on this?
33:56What Vikram Singh is suggesting or what Dushan Dave is saying?
33:59No, I stand right in the middle because fault lies on both sides.
34:04And if you clinically examine the whole issue,
34:07then you will find that police has, in the operational response,
34:11has been found wanting in certain situations.
34:14And as far as the crowd goes, there has been extreme violence also,
34:18you know, inflicted on the policemen.
34:21After all, you know, many, many of them are injured.
34:24There were 140 of them on this side and 178 protesters.
34:28So that gives you an idea.
34:30The question is that we are going to follow the same route again and again
34:34if the police remains disorganized, because after every crowd control situation like this,
34:40there should be a clinical examination.
34:42All with Dushan Dave is talking about or Vikram Singh ji is talking about
34:47can be easily verified on the facial recognition.
34:50Who are these guys?
34:51Where have they come from?
34:52This should have been done by now.
34:55You know, instead of prolonging it in this, I'm surprised.
34:58Because there are so many things which could be done immediately.
35:02So there has been a lack of, you know, operational planning.
35:06The intelligence was poor.
35:08And later on, what exactly happened is exactly among expected lines
35:12at the same allegations as in Nirbhai Khan.
35:19I'm going to leave it there.
35:20I've heard three very clear voices, three fine voices.
35:23That's a second.
35:24If your reporters were to...
35:26Dushan Davek, 20 seconds.
35:27...and talk about these people, anti-social elements,
35:29they will tell you what exactly had happened.
35:31How they entered.
35:36Okay.
35:37I'm going to leave it there.
35:38Dushan Dave, Vikram Singh,
35:40Yashu Vardhan Azad, appreciate your joining us.
35:42We can only hope that the committee appointed by the Supreme Court
35:46will conduct a non-partisan, fair, independent, time-bound inquiry.
35:52The nation needs to know or ought to know
35:56what really happened on the 20th of July.
35:59Thank you all very much for joining me on my talking point.
36:03Okay.
36:04Let's stay with the issue of student protests
36:06because it appears finally after 24 days,
36:09the students' protest in Jarkhand that has shaken the Hemant Sorain government there
36:14may be coming to an end.
36:16Late last night, the Sorain government cancelled the controversial JSSE CGL examinations
36:23and put all job tests conducted by an outsourced private agency, TDPL, since 2014 on halt.
36:31It has also ordered a CBI probe into the exam since 2014
36:36and announced reforms to the state examination system.
36:41The agitation, though, may not yet be over
36:43with one group still demanding a CBI probe.
36:46While the fact is at the moment that those who've lost out
36:50because the exams are cancelled
36:52are also protesting, fearing for jobs that they had already secured.
37:11A major breakthrough came on day 24 of the student protest in Jarkhand.
37:19The Hemant Sorain government conceded to one of the key demands of the protesting students
37:24and cancelled the JSSE CGL examination
37:28as well as the examination conducted by the TDPL.
37:31The government also ordered a CID probe into examinations held since 2014.
37:36It also announced sweeping reforms to the state's examination system.
38:08The TDPL's
38:15Student leader Devendranath Mahato, who has been on a hunger strike, ended his fast after
38:19the government's decision, calling it a historic victory for the students.
38:50The agreement also drew praise from alliance partner and leader of opposition in the Lok Sabha Rahul Gandhi.
38:55But despite the celebrations, the agitation is far from over.
38:59A section of students is still holding out for one key demand, a CBI probe.
39:04The protest will continue until that demand is met.
39:09CBI related, the SEC has not been made.
39:17Our CBI related, the SEC has not been made.
39:20The SEC has now been made.
39:23The SEC has now been made.
39:25The SEC has been made by the SEC.
39:27The SEC has no notification.
39:33We will give you the SEC.
39:40The Surin government now faces another challenge.
39:43The cancellation of the JSSC CGL examination has triggered a counter-protest outside Jharkhand secretariat.
39:50These are job aspirants who had cleared the examination and are now worried
39:54that the cancellation can put their possible job at risk.
40:37They will also be able to turn the
41:04So while the 24-day agitation has forced the government to concede
41:08several major demands, the battle over Jharkhand examination system is clearly not over.
41:37One group is demanding CBR, another is fighting to protect jobs.
41:41It believes it earned fairly, and the government now has to find a way to address both before
41:46the protests widen further.
41:48With Satyajit Kumar, Bureau Report, India Today.
41:53Okay, let's turn to the major controversy of the day.
41:56Now, there's been a major rejig that took place yesterday in the BJP over its organization.
42:02Among the various teams rejigged is the BJP's Digital War Room.
42:06That includes Amit Malwia, who's been really the spearheading it, the face of the BJP's
42:11IT cell for several years now, making way for a new social media team.
42:16But while the party, it appears, is looking to reset its digital strategy, some of the
42:22new faces have come up with controversial social media histories of their own.
42:28Histories which they attempted to scrub away after the announcement took place.
42:33But as they say, the internet never forgets.
42:36So is this a generational digital reset for the BJP or a potential new political headache?
42:43Because some of those comments are abusive and slurs against women.
42:49Take a look.
42:54Rejigs are part and parcel of any political organization.
42:58While some comebacks are being celebrated, some exits have also triggered questions.
43:04One name that stands out is Amit Malwia, the BJP's IT and Social Media Department chief since
43:102015, who has now been moved out of the key role.
43:16The party has appointed Deepak Maske as its new social media convener.
43:21And that has set off speculation over why the BJP chose to make the change now.
43:28One theory points to the changing social media battlefield.
43:32The BJP's digital machinery, built over years under Malwia, helped the party create a formidable
43:39voter outreach network across WhatsApp, Facebook and other platforms.
43:44But the political ecosystem has changed.
43:48The Congress and other opposition parties have stepped up their digital game, while the recent
43:53Gen Z-led protest and youth mobilization have raised a larger question for the BJP.
44:00Is the party still speaking the language of a younger, increasingly online electorate?
44:06The criticism is blunt.
44:08The BJP's Insta game may not have kept pace with the times.
44:12And perhaps the party believes a digital reset was now necessary.
44:19And that's where Deepak Maske enters.
44:22A data and analytics professional from Chhattisgarh, Maske's career is anything but conventional.
44:29A master's degree in chemistry, a diploma in cement technology, training in computer programming
44:37and even a stint in teaching.
44:39Now he has been handed the task of helping reshape the BJP's social media strategy.
44:58Maske will lead a new team of co-conveners, Preeti Gandhi, Siwanan Divedi, Alok Bhatt and Arun Yadav.
45:07But the new team comes with its own baggage.
45:11The ex-accounts of Preeti Gandhi and Alok Bhatt currently show little or no visible historical activity.
45:18While Arun Yadav's account is protected.
45:21That has inevitably turned the spotlight on their past posts.
45:25Preeti Gandhi, the BJP's newly appointed social media co-convener,
45:30is facing renewed scrutiny over old posts on X that critics say expressed admiration for Nathuram Gautse,
45:38the assassin of Mahatma Gandhi.
45:41Alok Bhatt, meanwhile, has been associated with the right-wing digital platform, the pamphlet.
45:47His old social media posts have also come under scrutiny over what critics describe as derogatory
45:53and inflammatory remarks targeting political opponents, Muslims and women.
45:59One 2012 post targeting Congress leader Sonia Gandhi,
46:03used deeply offensive and misogynistic language, has also gone viral again.
46:09And then there is Arun Yadav.
46:11His controversial social media history is not new.
46:15In 2022, the BJP removed Yadav as the head of its Haryana IT cell,
46:20after an old 2017 post targeting Muslims and Prophet Muhammad triggered a major controversy.
46:27The hashtag, Arrest Arun Yadav, also trended at that time.
46:32For the BJP, this is a bid to reset its digital politics.
46:36But with old posts never truly disappearing,
46:40the question is, are these battle-tested faces the BJP's digital advantage,
46:45or its next controversy?
46:48Bureau Report, India Today.
46:52Okay, let's turn to the big story from the south,
46:55where tensions between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka are spilling well beyond the Kaveri water dispute.
47:01After three Tamilians were killed in an alleged exchange of fire with Karnataka Forest Department personnel over the weekend,
47:08tensions between the two states are escalating.
47:10Tamil Nadu is now seeking a CBI probe,
47:13while the Karnataka government today told their assembly
47:17that they have asked Tamil Nadu to respect the federal structure of the country.
47:22Take a look.
47:32It is not just the Kaveri River water that is the bone of contention between India's two southern states.
47:44On August 15, when India was celebrating its 80th Independence Day,
47:49tensions between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka escalated further along the border.
47:55Three Tamilians were shot dead in an exchange of fire with Forest Department personnel in Karnataka's Chama Rajanagar district.
48:02The Forest Department has claimed that the alleged poachers who were killed in the Kaveri wildlife reserve were carrying deer
48:09meat.
48:10However, their families have said they had gone there only to graze cattle.
48:15The TVK government in Tamil Nadu and the Chief Minister Vijay has called it a brutal murder and ordered a
48:21probe.
48:38Even as opposition is mounting pressure on Chief Minister Vijay to take stronger action against the Karnataka government.
49:06Karnataka Deputy Chief Minister D. Keshivikumar has hit back at the Tamil Nadu government calling for respect for the federal
49:12structure.
49:13This is a federal structure. No state should interfere with any state's administration.
49:24With pressure mounting on both sides, all eyes are now on who blinks first.
49:30With Sagai Raj in Bengaluru and Pramod Madhav in Chennai, Bureau Report, India Today.
49:37And sticking to those disputes between Karnataka and Tamil Nadu,
49:41the former union minister, PMK leader and ally of the NDA at the centre, Ambu Mani Ramadas,
49:49has made a rather sensational allegation.
49:52He claims that the centre is favouring Karnataka over Tamil Nadu in the Kaveri water dispute because the BJP has
50:02a stronger presence in Karnataka.
50:05Dr. Ramadas was speaking at the India Today Tamil Nadu round table.
50:11Listen in to what he said.
50:14What you are effectively suggesting is that the existing Kaveri water management system has failed.
50:20Absolutely.
50:21That you are saying that a statutory authority has failed to give Tamil Nadu justice.
50:25It is truthless.
50:26It is truthless.
50:26No, no.
50:27Now there are two ways out.
50:28One is that the chief ministers of the two states work it out or the centre intervenes.
50:33Now the centre is BJP ruled.
50:35The Karnataka is Congress ruled.
50:37You have been a supporter of the BJP government.
50:40You have been their ally.
50:41Why are you not able to persuade the centre to work out an alliance?
50:44You see, the thing is, it is very easy.
50:47Either you are saying that the centre has failed completely the people of Tamil Nadu.
50:50Are you saying that the Narendra Modi-led government has failed the people of Tamil Nadu?
50:54Or are you saying that the Congress-led government in Karnataka has failed the people of Tamil Nadu?
50:59Let us be very clear.
51:01Rajdeep, I am openly accusing the centre of supporting Karnataka rather than Tamil Nadu.
51:07I have been openly accusing the centre.
51:10Why will Narendra Modi, BJP-led government, end up supporting a Congress-led government in Karnataka?
51:15BJP and Congress don't have stakes, political stakes in Tamil Nadu.
51:19They have political stakes in Karnataka.
51:22They have an election coming in 28.
51:24So Congress is ruling.
51:26BJP wants to rule.
51:27So BJP can't go, seems to be going against Karnataka in Karnataka.
51:32Here they don't have any stakes.
51:34So whoever comes here, Congress or BJP, both these parties support Karnataka rather than Tamil Nadu.
51:40Congress is in power, in power sharing here with the Vijay government in Tamil Nadu.
51:45So I mean, the point that I am getting to is that if you are saying that the Modi government
51:52has let you down at the centre,
51:54if you are saying the Congress-led government in Karnataka is only catering to Kannadiga interests,
52:00the question arises, what is the solution?
52:03Because otherwise, as I said, every time there is a rain-deficient year, there seems to be a dispute over
52:09water.
52:09This water problem, it moves on to a lawn-order problem.
52:13We have been living as brothers and sisters for centuries, ages late.
52:17And then, right now, yesterday, we had a Kannadiga band.
52:22So the whip-up emotions, see, 28 February is an election in Karnataka.
52:27So for this election, Kaveri is the main issue for Mr. D.K. Shivakumar.
52:32It is coming under his constituency and his area, that place where they are supposed to be wanting to build
52:38the Megadadu Dam.
52:39And so this is an issue where it is a political issue.
52:43And for us, it is a lifeline for us.
52:46We depend on Kaveri for even Chennai drinking water.
52:49And it's a huge, huge problem for us.
52:50No, no, but effectively, it's also becoming, yes, it's emotional on both sides.
52:54It's becoming divisive.
52:56Only yesterday, for example, you demanded a CBI probe into the killing of three Tamils by Karnataka forest personnel.
53:02The point is, we are all Indian citizens.
53:06The water does not belong to only one state.
53:08It does not belong to Karnataka.
53:10It does not belong to Tamil Nadu.
53:11It belongs to the people of this country.
53:13Is there a recognition on both sides?
53:15Justice Karnataka, you're saying, is not distra-
53:18Karnataka says Tamil Nadu is being unreasonable.
53:21That's their argument.
53:23I'm only telling you, each state-
53:25Rajdeep, just give me, I'll give you some statistics.
53:27In 1974, the total area cultivated by Kaveri in Karnataka was 6.8 lakh acres.
53:34Yes.
53:35Today, it is 21 lakh acres.
53:38In 1974, the total cultivated area by Kaveri in Tamil Nadu was 30 lakh acres.
53:44Today, it has come down to 20 lakh acres.
53:46So if they built a Megadadu Dam, which they say for drinking water,
53:50it is an irrigation, 100% irrigation dam.
53:52Why do you need a 70 TMC of dam?
53:55If they build this dam, this will be the biggest dam across the Kaveri in Karnataka,
53:59bigger than the KRS dam built in 1931.
54:01And we have so many agreements.
54:03So our cultivated area has decreased by 10 lakhs.
54:08Theirs has increased by nearly 15 lakhs.
54:11And if they build the dam, ours is going to come down by another 10 lakhs,
54:15if they are going to increase by 10 lakhs.
54:17Okay, you're watching the news today.
54:18Let's turn to tonight's Get Real India story,
54:21which comes from the smart city of Indore.
54:25Not so smart because a road that cost 40 crore rupees to build
54:30has collapsed during a routine pipeline test.
54:33A section of the road caved in the moment the water pressure testing began.
54:39Our Get Real India story is from Indore.
54:43Take a look at this report.
54:54This was supposed to be an ideal road under Indore's smart city project.
54:59Instead, it collapsed during a routine pipeline test.
55:05At Gorakund intersection,
55:07a section of the road suddenly gave way
55:09as pressure testing was being carried out on a new water pipeline.
55:15Water can be seen bursting through the road as the surface collapses.
55:20The road built from Bada Ganpati to Krishnapura Chhatri
55:24reportedly cost around 40 crore rupees.
55:30इसको अड़र रड़ह कुछ त्हणक नहीं की ति थी और पानी के पर पेकिंग दी में बटके और उस्ड़द दानी
55:39निकला.
55:39तो पक्कि बनी है, पर कुछ लिस्से में वो स्ड़द तो ताड़द कक्ची है भी.
56:06Municipal Corporation M.I.C. member Rajendra Rathor
56:09has alleged that several smart city projects have faced quality concerns.
56:15He has sought a high-level probe, writing to the Prime Minister's office
56:19as well as senior state and central ministers.
56:38For now, the damaged road will have to be repaired.
56:43But the bigger question remains,
56:44how does a 40-crore-rupees smart city road collapse during a pipeline test?
56:51Bureau Report, India Today.
56:57Okay, just about enough time to leave you with our image of the day.
57:02A JCB theft in Odisha has turned into a full-blown high-speed chase.
57:08That's right, the police were chasing the suspect
57:11and the suspect apparently was treating every barricade set up like a speedbreaker.
57:17Straight out of a Hindi cinema, the drama unfolding in Ganjam in Odisha
57:22after the police were alerted about a stolen JCB.
57:26Teams from four police stations joined the chase.
57:29Barricades put up.
57:30The JCB, smashing through them, kept going with police vehicles hot on their heels.
57:36The chase finally ended near Gudiali,
57:39where the suspect reportedly abandoned the JCB in a field
57:42and made a run for it on foot.
57:44Police have recovered the JCB,
57:46but the driver remains on the run.
57:48Videos of the chase going viral,
57:50showing the heavy machine giving the cops quite a run for their money.
57:54Please, for God's sake, don't try it.
57:57Thanks for watching.
57:58Stay well.
57:59Stay safe.
58:01Good night.
58:02Shubratri.
58:03Jay Hind.
58:04Namaskar.
58:05Bye.
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