- 11 minutes ago
This special news report on To The Point with Preeti Choudhry covers significant political developments in Tamil Nadu and Jharkhand.
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00:00It's just surprising to us because all of this political grandstanding at the back of what?
00:04At the back of abject obscenity.
00:07Udiya Nidhi and the DMK might say that he didn't say anything.
00:11But for anyone who's heard that clip will know, it might have been innuendo.
00:16But what Udiya Nidhi, his gestures, the way he dealt with the situation was despicable.
00:24And that cannot be taken away.
00:26He might be smiling there.
00:28He might be waving out to the crowds.
00:29He might be milking this moment politically.
00:32But this political grandstanding means nothing when it comes at the back of abject insult to a woman.
00:40Now, having said that, was the kind of action that was taken by the Tamil Nadu police justified?
00:47Not quite.
00:48This is something that we will debate over the course of the next 45 minutes.
00:51One should morally judge Udiya Nidhi, Stalin, for what he might not have said.
00:58But his conduct was despicable, to say the least.
01:03We can't even put it out on camera in terms of what it really was.
01:08It was that bad.
01:09But did it warrant the kind of action that the Tamil Nadu government took?
01:14Not quite.
01:15I want to cut across immediately right now to my colleague, Pramodh, who is joining us through this heavy drama.
01:22Pramodh, what are you witnessing right now?
01:24Of course, the DMK wanting to milk the moment politically.
01:28And you can see it through the smiles, the waving to the cadre, with Udiya Nidhi digging in his heels,
01:34saying,
01:34I did absolutely nothing.
01:40Well, Priti, one thing is very clear.
01:42The situation definitely is going out of control, because this is a place where initially Udiya Nidhi, Stalin, was not
01:47supposed to be brought here.
01:48It was actually South Anjava Police Station.
01:50But we are presently at Singhipati Police Station.
01:52A narrow road and a large crowd has gathered over here.
01:55In fact, police had to bring in the actual striking force over here, commandos, to actually block this particular spot.
02:00And even after that, DMK cadets are standing over here for nearly 30 minutes.
02:04They are raising slogans.
02:05They have the flags in their hand as well.
02:07While on the other side, we have the police station.
02:09We have been pitched earlier, though, even Udiya Nidhi said that he will not enter the police station,
02:12because this was not the actual one mentioned in the high court.
02:16He is currently present inside.
02:17It's being, you know, we've been told that investigation has begun post which he will be given signal to leave.
02:22The bigger question is that if this is going to happen, when is Udiya Nidhi's silent going to come out?
02:27And until then, all this cloud is going to hear, and it's going to keep swelling over here.
02:31And it's already nightfall at this port location, Preeti.
02:35In midst of the melee, in midst of this political grandstanding, what really has been forgotten is what really happened,
02:42which involved the dignity of a woman.
02:44There are multiple points of view on that.
02:47One, yes, it might be innuendo, but what Udiya Nidhi did, his conduct, was despicable to say the least.
02:56But on the other hand, there is enough criticism as well coming in for the Tamil Nadu government in the
03:02manner in which they handled it.
03:04Should they have taken the kind of action that they did, some would say not quite.
03:15It surely is, Preeti, because right now we could also see, this is the same spot where he went ahead
03:19and actually Udiya Nidhi's silent had this particular conversation.
03:22As you see right now, the crowd is once again trying to breach in while police officials are trying to
03:27stop them.
03:27The important aspect over here is that, like yesterday, after he made that particular comment,
03:32today while he was detained and while he was inside the band, we did ask him again whether he spoke
03:38something wrong.
03:39Udiya Nidhi's silent said, you be the judge of it.
03:41And then he said, I did not mention anybody by the name.
03:44I only talked about CMVJ.
03:47And he said that this is nothing but revenge tactics.
03:50This is how Udiya Nidhi's silent even before his kind of interrogation could begin, has given a response.
03:56It looks like he has already prepared his response, which he is going to give inside the place, as well,
04:00Preeti.
04:01The bigger question that is being asked is that, considering tomorrow as we have the assembly session
04:06and leader of the opposition being detained in such manner and brought almost 400 kilometers from Chennai,
04:12that is being right now debated as well, Preeti.
04:16Pramogh, take our viewers through on what is expected because he has got station bail, elucidate for our viewers.
04:22One thing that the Tamil Nadu government has made very clear, that there was never an arrest.
04:28It was a detention.
04:29And he also has station bail.
04:31So the minute he goes and records his statement, he will be allowed to walk free.
04:39Absolutely, Preeti.
04:40Kind of like a lot of things occurred since yesterday evening.
04:43The speech was made by Udiya Nidhi's talent.
04:44The speech also showed the crowd over here.
04:46What Udiya Nidhi's talent did was that he spoke around 1.30 p.m.
04:49Later, a case, we were the actual, actually broke the story around 2 p.m.
04:53and such about what happened, how Udiya Nidhi had made a remark that is being considered as vulgar by TV
04:57caricatures.
04:58And then what happened is that a complaint was filed by a person called Bairabi in the afternoon.
05:02Immediately, a police case was filed.
05:05This information was not released outside.
05:07However, the police from Tanjavur reached Udiya Nidhi's talent residence in Nilangare.
05:12That is at the outskirts of Chennai.
05:14Then what happened is that like one of the police officials, senior police officials,
05:18Kumar IPS was seen conversing and talking to Kritika Udiya Nidhi,
05:23who is the wife of Udiya Nidhi's talent and Master Manian, the former health minister.
05:27Later, all the officials came over here.
05:30Around 11 a.m., Udiya Nidhi's talent was detained
05:32and we got the information of the FAR where two sections were non-bailable.
05:37Generally, Priti, if a police only comes for interrogation, they can do it in any particular area.
05:42They don't have to take you to a particular district where the case has been registered.
05:46However, if they are going to arrest someone, that is a kind of like a procedure they follow.
05:50They detain the person, take him to the specific police station
05:53and there the person will be arrested.
05:55But what happened here is that like 12 p.m., the state missionary was supposed to give the documents
06:01to the court actually.
06:03That did not happen.
06:04But 2.15 p.m., the state missionary went ahead and said
06:07that the state does not have any intention to arrest the leader of the opposition
06:11but only to interrogate him.
06:13This is where the court actually stated that Udiya Nidhi's talent must be immediately released
06:17in station bail today itself.
06:19And this is happening, all kind of commotion between us.
06:21Then what happened is that like he was brought in all the way to Trichy.
06:25And instead of going to Tanjavur, the south police station, he was brought to this particular
06:29police station in Singapati where he is presently being interrogated.
06:33Post which he is definitely getting the station bail.
06:35But before that, we can actually see the chaos that is happening on the background over here, Priti.
06:40All right, so these images coming in.
06:42What we do know right now is Udiya Nidhi's talent is inside the police station recording his statement.
06:49Right after that, he will be allowed to go.
06:52The TVK government of Tamil Nadu has made it very clear that this is not an arrest.
06:56It was a detention.
06:57And at the back of the FIR's file, his statement would be recorded and he would be allowed to walk
07:03free.
07:04Now the session, Tamil Nadu Assembly session, is on and tomorrow will again be high drama
07:09because this is the leader of opposition.
07:11What right in the middle of, some would say, was despicable conduct which involved a woman.
07:17In this case, actor Trisha.
07:19We are going to continue to keep going back to the visuals that we are getting in from Sengapati Police
07:23Station.
07:24That is where Udiya Nidhi's talent is recording his statement.
07:28Fair amounts of political grandstanding.
07:30Sadly, if one could put this in perspective, it comes at the back of dragging the dignity of a woman.
07:36Having said that, the kind of action that the Tamil Nadu government has taken would be debatable
07:42and will be debated on this show as well.
07:45Let's take you back on what really happened.
07:47What was a despicable manner of conduct by Udiya Nidhi's talent, the man on your television screen,
07:54followed a dramatic arrest, some would say questionable, overreach by the state of Tamil Nadu.
08:01What resulted was statewide protest by the cadre of the DMK and then a high court intervention.
08:08All of this, viewers, in a matter of hours.
08:11Tamil Nadu witnessed a politically explosive day.
08:14As leader of opposition, Udiya Nidhi's talent was arrested or rather detained over his remarks on actor Trisha,
08:22only to secure station bail by the afternoon.
08:26Here's the full report.
08:46A political blockbuster day in Tamil Nadu, leader of opposition Udiya Nidhi's talent was arrested.
08:54Protests erupted across the state and by afternoon, the Madras High Court ordered his release on station bail.
09:01The drama began at Udiya Nidhi's Chennai residence, where police arrived with an arrest warrant.
09:08He was taken into custody and transported to Tanjavur for questioning.
09:12The Tamil Nadu is in hot water over a vulgar remark that was widely seen as an allusion to actor
09:20Trisha.
09:49The
09:50The FIR filed against Udyanadi listed a series of charges, including promoting enmity, provoking a riot, intentional insult, insulting the
10:04modesty of a woman, using obscene words in public, criminal conspiracy and criminal intimidation.
10:13But Udyanadi remained defiant.
10:20You decide. You decide. You saw the speech. Did I say something wrong? Did I say anybody's name, except the
10:27CM's name?
10:29Why do you think this is happening?
10:30This is just revengeful. Sorry?
10:35Then the court decided.
10:36The arrest triggered statewide protests. DMK workers hit the streets, burned Chief Minister Vijay's effigies and condemned the police action.
10:46TVK supporters, meanwhile, celebrated the arrest and held counter-protests. The political divide widened. The DMK termed the arrest political
10:57vendetta.
10:59It is totally wrong. He has not mentioned any word about the particular woman. No, it is all false. It
11:07is false.
11:08It was a disgusting speech yesterday given by Mr. Opposition Party leader, Udyanadi Stalin, and we are just having a
11:14protest for that reason.
11:16In case of the politics and the democratic world, we just want to serve people. We just came for serving
11:21people, not for all this dramatic and criticism claimed by him.
11:26Udyanadi's remarks were widely condemned as disgusting, derogatory, and deeply offensive.
11:32Women have, too, often been dragged into political battles.
11:37No woman is more equal than the other.
11:40There can be no holy cows, but legally...
11:46All right, we're going to continue going back and getting you the very latest. We just want to correct what
11:51the news that played out.
11:52Udyanadi Stalin was not arrested. That is something the Tamil Nadu government made very clear. This was a detention and
11:58not an arrest.
12:00Therefore, also, though, because there were FIRs, he is recording his statement where Sangapati Police Station is concerned, and we
12:07are going to continue to get you the latest coming in from there.
12:10What you have on your television screen is a smiling Udyanadi waving to his carter absolutely like he didn't do
12:16anything.
12:17That's what he said to the media as well.
12:20But that is not what really happened, viewers, because, you know, if you actually go back to what he said,
12:26and all of it unparliamentary is to say the least.
12:29It's despicable. It's sickening.
12:30It might be innuendo, but he knew exactly what he was doing.
12:34And by doing so, he pulled in the dignity of a woman.
12:40But having said that, does it somewhere down the line justify the kind of action the Tamil Nadu government has
12:46taken?
12:47Some would say it's overreach.
12:48Let's take all these questions to our panelists this evening.
12:51I have with me Mr. Aman Lakey, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court.
12:54I also have Ms. Lalita Kumara Manglam, former chairperson, NCW, Jagdishwaran, political analyst.
13:04He also leans towards the DMK.
13:07We also have Amerikai V. Narayanan, national spokesperson, TVK.
13:14I'd like to begin and get a legal perspective in all of this from Mr. Aman Lakey first.
13:19Mr. Lakey, there are two perspectives to this.
13:21At one end, one would hope that Udayanudhi Stralin faces the consequences, at least morally,
13:28of the kind of conduct that he displayed, where he dragged the dignity, the honor of a woman,
13:35despicable, sickening to say the least.
13:37But when you put this in perspective, the kind of action that the Tamil Nadu government has taken,
13:43would you think it's overreach?
13:45At the outset, let me say that whatever I've heard about this particular case
13:53doesn't actually engage any of the sections that have been invoked.
13:57The larger point which I want to actually focus on is that a standard template which exists across the country
14:03today
14:03is that an incumbent polices the opponent through a captive criminal process
14:09which exempts the wielder, which is happening everywhere.
14:13Now, what that happens is, instead of the received wisdom of vulgarity triggering prosecution,
14:20the prosecution license of vulgarity, you and I today are not talking about what this gentleman said.
14:32But what we are discussing today is whether his arrest is justified or not.
14:38So, this focuses the attention on what is actually a real grievance
14:43to the martyrdom of a person who claims to be wrong because whatever clips you are showing,
14:49he is engaging in what about me and is laughing about the whole thing, laughing about the whole thing
14:54because he comes into the focus of attention and focus of attention becomes somewhat like a celebrity
15:00and celebrity for reasons having nothing to do with any kind of eminence or recognition.
15:06Now, what makes this absolutely unpardonable is not just the words that he uses,
15:14it's the provision which I invoke to deal with him.
15:18This is essentially a case of defamation.
15:20Now, if it's a defamation, it's a non-cognizable and therefore you can't arrest.
15:24Now, this quibbling over arrest and custody is insignificant.
15:27Point is that he is being held.
15:29He is being held when it's de facto he is in custody, whether it amounts to arrest or not is
15:33irrelevant.
15:34The question is, defamation is mutated into a different offense and it is done that to hold a particular individual
15:43and a fire which does not lie.
15:46Now, as a consequence, the coercive aspect of the state's machinery comes to the fore.
15:52And in a matter where the provisions are not attracted, those are in fact labelled and used, which is happening
16:01across.
16:02This is not something that's happening in Tamil Nadu.
16:05This happens everywhere.
16:05Now, look at the sections which have been worked.
16:07Conspiracy.
16:08Look, conspiracy requires agreement.
16:10Agreement between what?
16:11Between him and the audience.
16:12Now, if the audience is there, then he cannot be attributed to him.
16:17One section which talks about creating on the ground of religion or sex or place of residence,
16:25not even remotely attracted because it is a group offense.
16:29It's something which is there at all.
16:31The offenses generally are those which carry a three-year imprisonment and better addressed through a notice
16:40wherein a person can be called and inquired because arrest in a case like this is not warranted.
16:45When is arrest warranted?
16:46Arrest is warranted whenever you are apprehending.
16:49Person may abscond.
16:50Or you are concerned with tampering.
16:51Now, there is nothing with the person to abscond from.
16:55And as to the tampering is concerned, it doesn't anyway come.
16:58But this is a speech.
16:59The speech is recorded.
17:01That is so.
17:03What is it that is happening?
17:05What is happening is actually misuse.
17:07And because the misuse, in fact, is what distorts the entire controversy.
17:15Because then we don't talk about the cause for what this has actually...
17:21But Mr. Lekhi, to explain it in very simple terms, he's been held...
17:25Now, what is being said is that he's been arrested.
17:28The government claims he's only been detained, but he's been held.
17:32The question, once again, nobody once is saying that you've excused his conduct.
17:38Deplorable.
17:38Was it overreach in the manner in which the government acted?
17:42Absolutely.
17:44This is padding.
17:44This is clearly padding.
17:46This is padding of offenses to particular events to seem to suggest a graver offense than the facts warrant.
17:57And this padding is a template across the country.
18:02It all depends upon who is in power.
18:04Whoever is in power, through a police which is captive, uses provisions, not because the provisions are attracted, but because
18:12the provisions are available.
18:13And the power has to be invoked.
18:16Now, you have this gentleman at the receiving end today.
18:20Now, when he talked about Sanatandhan, nothing happened to him.
18:23Why?
18:23Because he was in power.
18:25Today, he is not.
18:26So, at the complaint of the youth cell, not even of the lady who's supposed to have been in any
18:31way affected, the youth cell, immediately the police is used, brought into action.
18:39And whether he is arrested or in custody, I don't know, whatever words they use.
18:43That's a gray area.
18:44We still don't know where that is.
18:46He is detained.
18:47He is detained.
18:48Now, he is now experiencing precisely what he himself did.
18:52And this is a precedent which is for everyone to follow.
18:54And that's the reason why, despite repeated criminalization of speech, the language of public discourse continues to become coarser.
19:03It continues to become coarser because you don't, in fact, deal with the language.
19:06We are quibbling and discussing about the procedure which is used for dealing with a person who has indulged in
19:14that language.
19:14That's the reason why we are not talking about that anymore.
19:17Your show is not about what he spoke.
19:20Your show is whether he has been arrested or not.
19:23Now, if that is so, where is the restraint?
19:26He will license this behavior.
19:28And this is the youth.
19:30Now, I saw the youth and the youth has to set an example.
19:32But what it does is provide the license.
19:36Whoever is in the lower end of the hierarchy will say the boss did it.
19:40So, fair point.
19:41So, you are saying what he said was deplorable, but it did not warrant an arrest.
19:45Correct, Mr. Lekhi?
19:46Absolutely.
19:47Okay.
19:47So, that is what you are trying to say.
19:49This show is also, you know, we are joining us.
19:51This show is also as much about was there overreach by the Tamil Nadu government as much about how sickening
19:58was the conduct of Udiya Nidhi Stalin.
20:01And once again, we have political history stance testimony that women are very often used as currency to score political
20:09points.
20:09And Udiya Nidhi Stalin did exactly that with his conduct.
20:13I want to bring in, I want to go to our political guest, but before that, allow me to bring
20:16in Ms. Lalita Kumar Amanglam.
20:18But Lalita Kumar Amanglam, there was a larger point on this.
20:21Because then there is hypocrisy.
20:23Those today who are lauding the arrest slash detention of Udiya Nidhi Stalin are the same who are encouraging the
20:32filthy language used against many of the young girls who have now been targeted for taking part in the Jantar
20:38Mantar protest.
20:40Because, you know, one needs to stress on the fact, Ms. Kumar Amanglam, that if freedom of expression or freedom
20:46of speech is going to be a real constitutional value, then it needs to rise above political slogans.
20:53It's not about who speaks it or who's offended by it or which government is in power.
20:58I totally agree with you, Priti.
21:00I also agree with what Mr. Lakeley has said, that unfortunately, the non-smart action taken by the police has,
21:11in many ways, softened the blow that should have been felt by a party whose leader of the opposition speaks
21:20such filth.
21:21Now, I'm at a million.
21:23I'm from Tamil Nadu.
21:24Let me give you a piece of history.
21:26This gentleman, Udiya Nidhi's grandfather, the late Kalangnir, Karuna Nidhi, had almost stripped Jai Lalita in the assembly.
21:33All of this is very conveniently forgotten, primarily today because of the overreach of the police.
21:40What the police should have done was acted much more cleverly and according to the law, if you ask me
21:44personally.
21:45They should have gone and questioned it upon whom.
21:47The press would have been there.
21:49It would have been reported.
21:51More than well, it would have been reported.
21:53It would have been covered extremely, both intensively and extensively.
21:57In Kamarnade, politicians are, I mean, it's almost normal.
22:02Across the breakfast table, they talk about women in filthy language.
22:06What he said in Tamil, you and Amman, Ajit, do not understand Tamil.
22:10What he said in Tamil, the words used are execrable.
22:14And that's a very polite word I'm using.
22:17A leader of the opposition should have more control over his tongue.
22:21But unfortunately, patriarchy is so deeply imbued in the DMK that either you have to keep your mouth shut
22:30and be happy with whatever prizes are handed out to you, whether it's an MP seat or not, etc.
22:35What also has been conveniently forgotten is that this gentleman, Nudhanini's grandfather, openly lived a double life right till the
22:44last day of his life.
22:46You know, these things should not be, I don't mean it as an insult to any woman involved.
22:52But the fact is that this is a deeply patriarchal and utterly disgusting behavior that is repeated over and over
23:00again, especially by the DMK.
23:03Agreed, the TBK has, you know, overstepped perhaps the legal boundaries.
23:09But politically, I am disgusted yet again by what has happened in this state.
23:14You can't use women as fodder.
23:16Whatever, whatever maybe the private relationship two people have, in public, as politicians, as MLAs, MPs, etc.,
23:25representatives of the people, we must learn to talk decently.
23:29We have already given lectures to the students in that cockroach protest, right?
23:33What do you think those young girls and boys are going to do when they hear seasoned politicians,
23:37a deputy chief minister, sorry, a person who was a deputy chief minister and is today leader of the opposition,
23:42to talk such filth?
23:45You set a very, very bad example.
23:47You have lowered the bar.
23:48We've had statespeople, statesmen from Tamil Nadu who are politicians.
23:52What is this?
23:52Fair point.
23:53But I'd just like to add one, just a caveat to what you said.
23:56It's not just the DMK.
23:57Yes, it is the DMK.
23:59But today, every political party.
24:01Today, it's the DMK.
24:01It's the BJP.
24:02It's the Congress.
24:04No, I agree.
24:04It's the Samajwadi party.
24:05It's every political party has had their hands in the till where disrespect to women is concerned.
24:11I totally agree with you there.
24:12Every party should learn to respect women.
24:15After all, the women's vote today can make or break you if they really stand up for themselves.
24:19But the point is the politics still today is a deeply patriarchal profession.
24:24I hear you, ma'am.
24:25I'd like to bring in the political guests in this.
24:27I want to bring in first Mr. Narayanan, national spokesperson, TVK.
24:30Mr. Narayanan, one can say it's despicable.
24:32A, please, if you can, for the benefit of our viewers who are joining us,
24:36was Mr. Rudiyan Adi Stalin detained or arrested?
24:39If you can give us clarity on that, number one.
24:42Number two, what is very clear in legal terms, sir, is overreached by your government today?
24:49I'll take one step at a time.
24:51Very clearly, the attorney who represented the government very clearly said he has been detained
24:58and he has been taken for interrogation.
25:02I don't know how many of you sitting in the panel had been arrested.
25:06I have been arrested politically.
25:09I have fought on several things.
25:11I've been detained several times.
25:13And during Karanani's regime, just because I protested against him, naming comrades a real thing,
25:23I was arrested and put in jail for 15 days.
25:26And I was hit in the jail by the wardens during Karanani's regime.
25:30These are all facts.
25:31Now, let's come back.
25:32I'm not an Amchak quarterback sitting and talking like this.
25:35Now, you guys and all of you have agreed that's a despicable act.
25:40And I don't want to go into that.
25:42It's a shame, too.
25:43He is not a Uday Nidhi.
25:45He is now people in Tamil Nadu are calling him Vulgar Nidhi.
25:49The word, his name, he has been christened today as Vulgar Nidhi.
25:54Now, coming back, we have just talked about the technicality.
25:57I think the first thing is, last evening, I'm telling you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
26:04truth.
26:05I was appointed around 3 o'clock, about 4, 4.30.
26:09I got a call from national TV asking me to represent and respond to this despicable thing,
26:18which not only took a modesty of human is affected.
26:22It is against the whole principle Tamil Nadu and India stands for.
26:27Now, I went back because I was just appointed yesterday, and I went back to the party.
26:33They said, let them say it.
26:35It is them.
26:37I was outside.
26:39Then I came and listened to it.
26:40And then I wrote to the party saying, we cannot keep quiet on this issue.
26:46Now, this party, unlike you, you painted all the parties red.
26:50I can tell you, TVK as a party, from the day they have come in, they have taken serious action,
26:57whether irrespective of the party, irrespective of the position.
27:00As a matter of fact, I don't know the exact case.
27:03As soon as it came, some lady who has given a complaint, if I remember right, it's an Islamic lady,
27:08and nobody took action.
27:10And as soon as he came, he took that, arrested that guy.
27:14He said, there is a zero tolerance against the abuse against women.
27:19This is the policy of this party.
27:21None of the TVK party men have ever abused.
27:25But, sir, it's not the first time you've had the TVK that's taken action against MLAs of the DMK as
27:32well, on, you know, where freedom of speech comes into question.
27:35But the fact is, Mr. Narayanan, one can get into the moral debate of what went wrong.
27:40And one should get into the morality of it.
27:43I am looking at the legality of it.
27:45Legality, I'll come to that.
27:46But, no, no, sir, I'll get you in.
27:48Allow me to bring in our other guests.
27:51I'll get you in on this as well.
27:53Because then what smacks off is hypocrisy at a certain level.
27:56I need one minute of my time.
27:58I need one minute of time about legality.
28:00I am representing the party.
28:01Make your point, sir.
28:02Make your point.
28:03Okay.
28:04The league, if they have not taken the action against this person, vulgar Stalin, what would have happened is there
28:12would have been a law and order because women are really angry.
28:16Now, women came to the streets.
28:17Sir, this is your...
28:18Please, get to the point.
28:19This is not about getting into...
28:20The legality is very clear, sir.
28:22And everybody who are abusing people, abusing people, abusing people, will walk free.
28:28That's not right.
28:28You're again making a moral argument.
28:30He needs to send a message.
28:31He has all only been detained.
28:33He has not been arrested.
28:35Just because he's an LOP or a big parties leader, it doesn't mean we cannot question him.
28:40Even detention, sir, if one looks at it, it is selective.
28:44We will discuss that.
28:45I want to cut across right now to the political analyst that we have, Jagad Deeshwaran.
28:53One quick question, sir.
28:54What stops the DMK from now, instead of smiling, grandstanding, waving to the cadre, to come out and apologize?
29:01Because you yourself know what Udi Anudhi's challenge, conduct smacked off was nothing but vulgarity.
29:10See, the reason more DMK cadres are coming out and protesting is the nature of this case.
29:18You could have taken a look at the FIR, probably I think nine sections of our book, which includes criminal
29:23conspiracy, promoting enmity between groups,
29:25provoking riots, insulting the modesty of everyone, obscene entrances in public place, criminal intimidation, intentional insult, intended to provoke a
29:33breach of peace.
29:35So, which part of Udi Anudhi's speech made to provoke riot?
29:41Please hold on, sir.
29:44Which part of Udi Anudhi's speech provoked riot?
29:48Which part promoted enmity between groups?
29:52Which part promoted criminal conspiracy?
29:54Mr. Jagad Deeshwaran, can I ask you a question?
29:56Can I ask you a question?
29:57Yeah, please.
29:58Can I ask you a question?
30:00As a woman, as a journalist, leave alone woman, as a journalist, did you hear what happened?
30:06Did you see that clip?
30:08Yes.
30:08Do you understand, sir, that we cannot put that clip out publicly because it's that demeaning and degrading?
30:15Do you understand why we can't do it?
30:17See, I strongly can't do it.
30:19Do you understand why we can't play it?
30:24I'm asking you.
30:25Definitely.
30:26You understand why we can't play it?
30:27Don't play it.
30:28You don't have to play it.
30:28Then, if you understand why we can't play it, do you agree that that warrants an outright apology?
30:36See, the whole debate is about one part.
30:40Yes, Udi Anudhi is wrong in saying that.
30:42I condemn it.
30:43Yes.
30:44I condemn that.
30:45I stand for a woman.
30:46I hear you, sir, when you say Udi Anudhi is wrong.
30:48When somebody is wrong, they don't come out smiling and waving out to their carder like they've done absolutely nothing.
30:53They don't say I've done nothing.
30:55You are wrong.
30:56Admit it.
30:56Apologize.
30:57Move on.
30:58No, just a second.
30:59See, this was a case that went to the court.
31:02The court said, hold on.
31:04Don't take any action until 12 p.m.
31:06Still, this government wanted to take him to Tanjavo.
31:09What's the purpose?
31:10What are the...
31:11I mean...
31:11Sir, one can get into the legalities of it, which we just did.
31:14I just want to break some news that's coming in.
31:15He's smiling.
31:16See, he's smiling not because he made that comment.
31:19Don't...
31:19Sir, forget about he's smiling.
31:21He's not smiling.
31:22Can I play that reaction out for you?
31:24He's smiling because this media government.
31:24Sir, allow me to comment.
31:26Can I play that reaction out for you on what Udi Anudhi's talent told the media?
31:29I have said nothing.
31:30Did I say anything?
31:31You yourself agree what he said was wrong?
31:34Yes.
31:34And you support the DMK?
31:37Udi Anudhi's talent has told the media that I did nothing wrong.
31:41What is it that I did?
31:43Can you allow me to talk?
31:45Please, sir.
31:46Yes.
31:47I said I also condemned that.
31:49I said if you're asking why Mr. Udi Anudhi is smiling,
31:51because this TVK government wanted to put him in jail badly.
31:55They were not able to do it.
31:57And that is the reason he's smiling and waving his hand on the ground.
32:00I'm not talking about that, sir.
32:02I'm talking about what he told the media.
32:04I have done nothing wrong.
32:05You yourself are saying he's done something wrong.
32:07I want to quickly break the news and cut across back to the spokesperson of the TVK.
32:11And we'll take final comments.
32:12Now, TVK minister, Mr. Sengotian, has defended Udi Anudhi's arrest.
32:17So, the TVK spokesperson might also get up to speed with the fact that your government is admitting that he
32:23was arrested.
32:24TVK minister, Udi Anudhi's arrest was absolutely correct.
32:27The arrest was demeaning to women.
32:29This kind of mistake should never be repeated again.
32:31This is what Sengotian, who is part of the cabinet of Mr. Vijay, the chief minister of Tamil Nadu, has
32:38just said.
32:39So, yes.
32:40Now, let's cut across.
32:41Back to the spokesperson of the TVK, sir, you said he was detained, he was not arrested.
32:46Your minister itself says, yes, he was arrested.
32:49It is correct that he was arrested.
32:50This was demeaning to women.
32:52Now, Mr. Narayanan, why is it not selective?
32:55Why are some women more equal than other women?
32:58If the rule of law is the same for everyone, you cannot be subjective in applying it.
33:05And therefore, when it comes to freedom of speech, how morally corrupt it might be, but it is what it
33:13is, sir.
33:15I think you're taking a lot of time.
33:17Please give me the time.
33:18Number one, I think just like any other thing, you want to appear to be fair.
33:23So, you're accusing us of that.
33:25And just like you called all the parties, TVK is not a party.
33:29It's a party with a difference.
33:30Number one, they have consistently taken serious action against any abuse against women.
33:36Number three, in the morning, all of you kept saying, arrested, arrested, and arrested.
33:42And even I thought he was arrested.
33:44So, Sengotian may not have had whole facts.
33:47And in the afternoon, it was clear.
33:49The government has said in the court that he has been detained.
33:54That reaction is coming, sir, in the last 20 minutes.
33:57You're saying he might not be clear.
33:58I'm telling you it's come in the last 20 minutes.
34:00It's not come in the afternoon or the morning.
34:02Let's pay that reaction out.
34:24Back to Mr. Narayanan right now.
34:26Mr. Narayanan, this was recorded 20 minutes ago.
34:30Not in the morning, not in the afternoon, 20 minutes ago, sir.
34:32Quick points.
34:33It doesn't matter.
34:34The fact speaks for itself in the court.
34:36He has been detained.
34:37And because he has been bombarded with all the things, all of you have been including in your own show
34:43just a few minutes back.
34:45Arrest is the word that's used.
34:46So, are you saying you're right?
34:48Absolutely not.
34:49Sir, I am saying yes because he has been arrested.
34:51Your government has just admitted it.
34:52Your cabinet.
34:53Are you telling me not to believe a cabinet minister?
34:56Are you telling me not to believe your cabinet minister, sir?
35:00Absolutely.
35:00He may be wrong.
35:01It's not a question I'm not believing.
35:02Okay, cabinet minister is wrong.
35:03He may not have been properly informed.
35:04He's been detained.
35:05He's not been arrested.
35:05Final comments.
35:06Aman Lekhi, 30 seconds, sir.
35:08Okay.
35:09Final comment is we need to do what we did because we say zero tolerance.
35:15Let's be clear.
35:16It doesn't matter who it is, how powerful they are.
35:19Despite the rule.
35:20We will not put up with any crime or abuse against women.
35:25Okay.
35:25Despite the letter of law, which is selective.
35:27Okay.
35:27Let's cut across Mr. Lekhi, please, sir.
35:31What's happening today is scardality is masquerading as wit and there's a coarsing of discourse which has ceased to be
35:38a debate.
35:38And this particular language is both unworthy of not just his position but also in inheritance.
35:45The point is that if this is so and the wrong is as it is and this is brutalization in
35:50the extreme and I completely agree that when you're dealing with lady men in a country like ours,
35:55in the kind of sanskar that we've been brought up in the kind of sanskar that we've been brought up
35:59into, to permit this is not something that can ever be tolerated and has necessary to be condemned.
36:04The point is, the point is you have to yet do it in a manner which makes it legally efficacious
36:10because if you don't do it, then you display the law and don't address the comment.
36:15Now, this is exactly what is happening.
36:16The law is debased.
36:18The comment remains unaddressed.
36:20And that's become the precedent for the future, which is the reason why everyone repeats.
36:24Fair point, sir.
36:24He's not the last person who's doing it.
36:26This is going to happen again.
36:28You're right.
36:28Ms. Mangalam, please come in.
36:30Yeah, I totally agree with Amanji here that what has happened is because of the hastiness of the action that
36:36was taken,
36:37it has not only become politically unsmart, it's also actually in a way sidelined the real issue.
36:45That is of the insulting of women so publicly, so openly by a person who is no less than the
36:53leader of the opposition of one of the most advanced and supposedly educated states in this country.
36:58It shows how deeply the rot of patriarchy runs.
37:01And all of us, most of us are trying to debate the law and not the fact that this man
37:06doesn't even deserve to be the deputy chief minister of any state.
37:11A man who has an attitude like this is rotten to the core and to think and to pretend and
37:18to act, saying that, oh, we are pro-women.
37:21If you ask me, it's just whitewash.
37:25You're trying to whitewash what is a crime, according to me.
37:29Yes, the police should have acted more smartly, but it is a crime what he did.
37:34Mr. Jagdisharan.
37:36Yeah, see, you are talking about other parties. TVK is not any different from other parties. See, he was saying
37:42this is a party with difference.
37:43There was a place called Steve Aikundam where a couple of guys were sexually assaulted as a job seeker.
37:48And who is protecting them?
37:50The TVK MLA, Steve Aikundam MLA ceremony.
37:53And no option was taken by either Mr. Vijay or by the TVK government.
37:57They continued to do, I mean, they called, they were to the party with a difference, they were against women
38:01harassment,
38:01but it's not, it's no different from other parties. I mean, it's the same, you can go and check the
38:07internet,
38:08how they create women, how they see the women of other parties.
38:11All right, you know, one can get into all of this debate right now, but one thing, you know, okay,
38:16that's the end of it.
38:17I appreciate all four of you for taking the time out and joining us.
38:20We were, for anyone who doesn't call out the conduct of Udiya Nadee's talent today in the manner in which
38:26he reacted is abysmal.
38:29He needs to be called out. But so, what has to be called out as well is the overreach by
38:36the Tamil Nadu government,
38:37because then you become or make a mockery of law.
38:41Once again, not justifying what this man on your television screens did.
38:46With that, I want to quickly cut across to the other debate that we are tracking very closely,
38:51the politics of protest.
38:53The spotlight now on the Jharkhand students' protest that has entered day 11.
38:58The hunger strike is growing and Assembly Gheirao has been announced.
39:01The agitation getting stronger. So is the politics.
39:13The Jharkhand students' movement isn't slowing down.
39:21It is only getting bigger. The tents are still up.
39:27The hunger strike continues.
39:30And with an Assembly Gheirao planned for August 10th,
39:33the agitation over alleged JPSC-JSSC recruitment scams is entering a decisive phase.
39:42The CID has been announced.
39:44If there are no trust in that,
39:45then what will it be on the government?
39:47If there will be, we will be able to trust.
39:48Because the government always gives the knowledge to the CID.
39:52The CID also gives the knowledge to the government.
39:56The government is the ones who want to do it.
39:57The people who believe, they will do it.
39:58The people who believe that they will give the truth to the people.
40:21The students remain firm on their demands.
40:24A CBI probe, fresh examinations and action against those behind the alleged recruitment
40:31scams.
40:33Five more students have joined the hunger strike, while food and support continue to pour in
40:38from across Chharkhand.
40:42But as the movement grows, so does the politics around it.
40:49Even CJP, which spearheaded the Delhi Students Movement, came under fire for staying away
40:55from the Chharkhand protest for the first 10 days.
40:59The party has now stepped in, extending its support to the agitation.
41:05Deepke and I were talking to the protesting students and the person who was there coordinating
41:10is a CJP member.
41:12So our team is already there, they are doing whatever support is required from the side
41:18of the protesting students and we will continue to provide all the kinds of necessary support
41:23as and when the students demand.
41:27The bigger question, however, is about the Congress.
41:32During the need Paper League protest, Congress leaders marched with students.
41:37States demonstrations sat on a dharna outside the Prime Minister's residence and even got
41:42detained.
41:46But in Chharkhand, where students have been protesting for 11 days over similar allegations,
41:52the party's top leadership has remained conspicuously silent.
41:57The BJP has wasted no time in calling it out.
42:02The JPSC chairman of the U.S.
42:04The JPSC chairman of the U.S.
42:05The JPSC chairman of the U.S.
42:06The JPSC chairman of the U.S.
42:07The members of Congress party, the members of the Congress party, the members of the
42:12U.S.
42:13The members of the U.S.
42:15Why do not work on those people?
42:16What is the problem of the CBI inquiry?
42:18Why do they do this?
42:20That's why we don't want to do it because the past seven years.
42:23Those who are the people who are made, are no leader of Congress party.
42:30While the Congress Seva Dal has been helping the protesters on the ground, the absence
42:35of the party's senior leadership has fueled a larger political question.
42:40Is the silence driven by the Congress's alliance with the ruling JMM?
42:45Responding to the growing pressure, the Chief Minister assured justice.
43:15The students' demands haven't changed.
43:17The politics around them has.
43:21Should support for student movements remain consistent regardless of who is in power?
43:27Or do political alliances decide which protests deserve solidarity and which are met with silence?
43:35With Satyajit Kumar, Bureau Report, India Today.
43:42Our political face-off today, Anshul Abhijit, National Spokesperson, Congress.
43:46Dr. Guru Prakash Paswan, Spokesperson, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party.
43:51Both of you will get two minutes time to put your point forward.
43:54Anshul Abhijit, to begin with you, it seems that for the Congress, all student protests are equal,
44:01but some student protests are more equal than the others.
44:05No, that's not my view at all, Preeti.
44:07I find the student process to be, that's my clear and unequivocal position, to be absolutely legitimate, to be constitutional,
44:16to be necessary.
44:17And actually the purest form of democratic outrage, no matter which government is in power, whether it's the Congress or
44:24the BJP or any opposition state.
44:26Student protests, which I was once a part of in Del University.
44:29You know, we went out to Mall Road to protest.
44:32You know, one can't forget that time because they're a legitimate form of a democratic protest.
44:37I stand by student protests, which is why, even in Jharkhand, Congress people have been going there.
44:44You talked about distributing food in your package.
44:47It was Congress people there that were also distributing food, trying to understand what the demands of the students were.
44:53Well, they're pretty apparent, and I know that this is a coalition government, so there's some sort of joint sovereignty
44:58over there.
44:59I can understand that you want answers from the Congress as well.
45:03Well, we can say that also the reaction of the state has been pretty swift in dismissing the people who
45:10are in charge in the JPSC,
45:13as well as arrests being made of 11 people already.
45:16Exams have been postponed, swift action has been taken, and further action will take place.
45:21Now, nothing about waterboultry here. Student protests have to be the same everywhere, and they probably are.
45:27But when it comes to political protests and parties, you know, making outrageous claims,
45:34then they must be made in the same way in states like Gujarat and UP as well, which are notorious
45:40for paper leaks.
45:41And not a single demand has been made there. We have been continuously making it there, but they have to
45:47be held as accountable as well.
45:48So there has to be a democratization in which we approach the kind of paper leaks.
45:54Those states have to be answerable as well.
45:56I think that the education system is broken. I think the massive restructuring has to go on.
46:03I think the budgetary allocation has decreased considerably, plummeted precipitously from the time...
46:09Sir, your time is up. But, you know, for the second round when I come to you,
46:14also the stunning silence of the top brass of the Congress.
46:16If they're squatted in front of the Prime Minister's residence, what stops Rahul Gandhi from squatting in front of Hemant
46:22Sorain's residence, the Chief Minister of Jharkhand?
46:25Nothing quite. But I want to bring in the BJP spokesperson here.
46:30Dr. Paswan, I can ask you the same question.
46:32For the BJP, some students' protests are more equal than the other.
46:36As quickly and with the love that the BJP has embraced the Jharkhand protest, that kind of love was devoid
46:43during the Jantar Mantar protest.
46:49No, Preeti, I think it's important that we should be aware about the history of Jharkhand.
46:54We have a special love and affection for Jharkhand. You're absolutely bang on. You're absolutely correct.
47:00Jharkhand was formed on the foundation of tribal aspiration.
47:04And it was under the Prime Ministership of Sri Atal Bihari Vajpayeeji that for the first time in the history,
47:10tribal aspirations were realized in the name of the creation of a state, point number one.
47:14Point number two, we have to understand. I am an assistant professor of law.
47:19I have qualified and written in public service examination.
47:22I have appeared in UGC net examination. I have appeared in common law entrance test as well.
47:27I understand the years of sacrifice. I understand the sacrifice of our parents when there is a public examination.
47:34We have to understand, we have to be sensitive to it. This is nothing but a betrayal of entire generational
47:41sacrifice of the youngsters.
47:43Because Jharkhand, just because it's a tribal state, Jharkhand, just because the protesters are from the marginalized section,
47:50will not become part of the mainstream discourse or the mainstream discussion.
47:54The selective amnesia that you spoke about is extremely important in this case.
47:59We are all very well aware of the case that in the state of Karnataka, police and veterinary examination,
48:05the insensitive remarks made by Karnataka minister and son of Congress President Malik Arjun Khadge.
48:12If they want my resignation, they can sit on a hunger strike for 25 days.
48:17If this is not insensitivity, then what is? We have to understand we need a long lasting solution.
48:24Honorable Prime Minister has made a committee. It's a relevant committee with all these stakeholders.
48:29People from logistics, people from tech, people from education sector, people from intelligence and also the law.
48:36It has become so stringent. 10 crore fine, 10 years of rigorous imprisonment.
48:41What we need is a long term solution. What we need is a structural solution.
48:46But what we saw in the last month...
48:48Sir, your time is up. I'll just give both of you 20 seconds each. I'm running short of time.
48:52I want to bring in Abhijit Anshul first.
48:54Mr. Anshul, once again, I'll ask you what stops from the Congress top brass from taking up the demand of
49:01the students of Jharkhand.
49:0220 seconds, sir.
49:03No, we have already sent our emissaries there. There is no question. We are extremely empathetic.
49:08There's no duplicity here. I've said before, you know, student process are completely legitimate.
49:14They're not, you know, the parting shop of Mr. Dharmendra Padas was that this was some kind of international conspiracy.
49:20He didn't even admit that there were paper leaks.
49:22In Jharkhand, they made remedial measures...
49:24Is Rahul Gandhi ji or Malik Arjun Khadge ji, anyone going to be travelling to Jharkhand soon?
49:30Well, I don't know what their programme is. We are entirely in touch with the team over there.
49:36We are entirely empathetic. There are remedial measures being taken place.
49:40Student protests are something that are considered very seriously.
49:43We have our ear to the ground as does the chief minister in Jharkhand.
49:46Okay.
49:47Alright. I would like to bring in, Dr. Paswan, one quick comment, sir, from you.
49:52Will the BJP say very clearly that both the Jantar Mantra protest and Jharkhand protest were the same?
49:57Or Jharkhand protest is bigger, better than the Jantar Mantra protest, more important?
50:08No, no, Priti, we don't discriminate. Why would we discriminate between protest?
50:12We are child of protest. We are the product of protest.
50:1551 years ago, when emergency was imposed, you would remember reading in history books that against the emergency a voice
50:22was raised.
50:23And our entire party leadership, be it former Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee ji, Narendra Modi ji, Arun Jaitley ji,
50:30Sushma Swaraj ji,
50:31the entire generation of our leadership are product of that protest.
50:34Okay.
50:34So, we don't discriminate between the protest. But we have to fundamentally understand one thing,
50:38that if there is nothing to hide, Priti, if there is nothing to hide, why fear and independent inquiry?
50:43Let there be a transparent inquiry. Let the students and all the relevant stakeholders come.
50:48There are videos doing on social media.
50:49Alright, you know, that's all the time that we have for now.
50:52I apologize, we should have had more time for this debate. We end it right there.
50:55But we are going to keep the spotlight on Jharkhand where the politics is concerned.
50:58It does seem that it comes down to our protest is more genuine or kosher than yours.
51:04And that's across party lines. We hit the BJP of the Congress here.
51:08At least that's what it seems to be.
51:09A quick break, stay with me. On the other side is my colleague Garh Saad.
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