- 11 hours ago
A panel debate examines the security clampdown, heavy police deployment, and administrative measures enforced across Delhi following demonstrations and confrontations between protesters and law enforcement personnel. BJP spokesperson Radhika Khera defends the actions of Delhi Police, including detentions, closed metro stations, and suspended train services, asserting that restrictions prevent hooliganism and protect public order. Panelists Sanjay Jha, Congress spokesperson Pooja Tripathi, and former police officer Vikram Singh address constitutional rights to peaceful assembly, Section 163 enforcement, permissions for gatherings at Jantar Mantar, and reports of clashes and stone pelting in Connaught Place.
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NewsTranscript
00:00I just want to bring in the BJP spokesperson into the conversation.
00:03Ms. Radhika Keira continues to be with us.
00:05Ms. Keira, you know, I just want to take you through on some of the measures
00:08that have been put in place since the course of the morning.
00:10The sheer fact that 57 metro stations in the capital, Ashrat,
00:14every arterial road is shut, not just in Central Delhi.
00:17There are people who are being picked up and detained in Chitaranjan Park,
00:21which is about 12 or 13 kilometers away from Jamtar Mantar.
00:25You have, for the first time, and I wouldn't think it has happened,
00:29even at the time of the farmers' protest, that multiple number of trains,
00:35over 23 trains have been diverted, express trains that are coming into the national capital.
00:40Over 20 trains have been canceled between 4 a.m. this morning till about 4 p.m. this evening.
00:46You have 33 personnel, security personnel on ground.
00:51The BSF is manning borders.
00:54What's really going on?
00:55One doesn't quite seem to understand.
01:01Preeti, have you visited Central Delhi today?
01:03Have you left office and traveled towards Central Delhi?
01:05Because I am right now in the car, traveling back from our national headquarters,
01:09going back to my house.
01:10I'm in Mumbai.
01:11Let me complete.
01:12So, yeah, so you're in Mumbai.
01:13I wish if I turn the camera around.
01:15You ask me a question, I'm answering.
01:17I'm not able to...
01:20Yeah.
01:22Yeah.
01:23Yeah.
01:24Your voice is breaking, Ms. Khera.
01:27We can't really hear you.
01:28We've lost your connection.
01:30Your voice is breaking.
01:31We can't hear you.
01:31Can we restore that connection with Radhika Khera,
01:34and we're going to go right back to her?
01:36Rajat, you know, I'm going to come to you on this,
01:39because we did speak yesterday,
01:40and you did have a very strong point of view
01:42that tomorrow they'll want to protest about anything
01:45and they can't be allowed.
01:46But the fact is, Rajat, the measures, it's astounding.
01:49It's not just fortification.
01:50This is a lockdown of the national capital.
01:53What is the messaging that is going out?
01:55Are we to believe that whoever you are detaining today
01:58are not going to come back tomorrow?
01:59Till how long are you going to continue with these measures?
02:04So, Preeti ji, I agree with you.
02:05I think, procedurally, there was a flaw
02:09which was identified right in your show
02:11when the CJP spokesperson, Mahal,
02:13she said that, you know,
02:15we've just yesterday applied for the application.
02:17You know, now that that application has now been cancelled,
02:21the permission is not there.
02:22Also, we need to understand that police
02:24is also under tremendous pressure
02:26to ensure that there is absolutely no toll on injuries
02:31or through any grievous injuries
02:33that can happen to the protesters.
02:35Last time, I mean, what happened around
02:37the previous protest around June, July,
02:39there were people who had suffered grievous injuries.
02:44Thank God that there were no, you know,
02:46fatalities that happened.
02:47You know, at the end of the day,
02:49all of these can just escalate.
02:51What happened in Bangladesh at the end of the day?
02:53It was because, you know,
02:55when the students were protesting,
02:56the police were not able to handle it.
02:58And there were students who unfortunately lost their lives
03:01and that just reached to a crescendo.
03:03So, wherein, through undemocratic means,
03:06the then prime minister had to literally,
03:09you know, fly out of the country.
03:11Is that how regime change is to be crafted
03:14by pulling out a leaf from our neighbouring countries?
03:17I mean, here, the restraint that has been shown
03:20even today by the police,
03:22everybody is with body cam.
03:23They are, none of all the detainees,
03:25whenever it happened,
03:26there was no confrontation,
03:27serious violent confrontation anywhere.
03:29So, you should also think that from a police perspective,
03:33the instructions would have been very clear.
03:35Ensure, I mean, follow the process,
03:37A, B, ensure that there is absolutely no violent event
03:39happening anywhere in the city.
03:41Now, if that is the objective,
03:43they would have tried to, you know,
03:45understand like,
03:46and sort of strategize as to,
03:47how do you go about doing this?
03:49The permission wasn't there clearly.
03:51In this scenario,
03:52they decentralized the forces to an extent
03:54so that the protesters who are coming in
03:56and almost thousand of them
03:57still managed to come in
03:59and around the central Delhi area.
04:01But they were all detained.
04:03They will again come in tomorrow.
04:04Again, the prohibitory orders would be there.
04:06They'll again be detained.
04:07Let the cycle go.
04:08I mean, police has the law-bounded duty
04:11to actually ensure that
04:12the rules and regulations are followed.
04:15So have the protesters,
04:17they have their fundamental rights behind them
04:19to go out and protest on the streets.
04:21But that's the balancing act
04:23from all the sites which will keep on happening.
04:24Rajat, okay, that's a fair point.
04:27Okay, so you've made your point,
04:29but this is not at least the messaging
04:31that is coming in from the BJP or the government
04:33because this is not being done
04:34to protect the students
04:36and making sure that no untoward incident happens
04:40because we've just seen two back-to-back
04:42press conferences by the Bharatiya Janata Party
04:45and both Mr. Sambit Patra
04:46and Mr. Ravi Shankar Prasad
04:48have called the protesters anarchists.
04:51They might have connected it to the opposition,
04:53but that seems to be the win.
04:55I just want to bring in Sanjay Jha.
04:57Okay, we have Sanjay Jha.
04:58We have the Congress spokesperson as well
05:00and I believe Radhika is back with us.
05:02Okay, she's traveling.
05:03Let's cut across back to Radhika
05:04because we've had the signal finally.
05:06Radhika, I'll come back to you.
05:08Unprecedented measures.
05:09This is like a lockdown
05:10where trains have been stopped
05:12to come into the national capital.
05:14You have BSF guarding the borders.
05:17You know, Preeti, why I asked you
05:19if you've been to Central Delhi today
05:21because I'm just returning
05:22from our national headquarters in Central Delhi
05:24and traffic is moving fine.
05:27Yes, there are some certain places
05:28where there was a 10 or 15 minute traffic jam
05:31because of certain times
05:33when people try and throw,
05:35if you remember,
05:35if you must have seen the news outside PTI office,
05:38the same so-called children
05:39that Ms. Tavleen was talking about
05:41were throwing stones
05:42and pelting stones of the police officers.
05:44Is it normal?
05:45Is it a normal protest
05:47when you have the SFI
05:48and these cockroach protesters
05:50coming out and using pepper spray
05:52in the eyes of police officers?
05:53I saw that with my own eye.
05:55When they were being detained,
05:57they sprayed pepper spray
05:58inside a police officer's eye
06:00and it went one,
06:02I believe a cameraman also
06:04from a very big channel
06:06was hurt, injured because of that.
06:08Is that normal?
06:09Is that how you go and protest?
06:10I was 17 years old
06:12when I joined student politics.
06:13I have seen bigger protests
06:14but never ever
06:16did we try to harm the police people.
06:18You are hitting people.
06:20Just see the two-day-old protests
06:21that the Congress did.
06:23They were kicking police officers.
06:24So if we are ensuring
06:26that there is no hooliganism on the roads,
06:29what is wrong with that?
06:30Is the taxpayers' money
06:32meant to be destroyed?
06:34We saw how they vandalized
06:36the not-place
06:37and cars in the previous protest
06:40which was a one-day protest
06:41and when no permission
06:43has been granted,
06:44where does that give them
06:45the fundamental right
06:46to go and do the protest?
06:47They have to take
06:48the necessary permissions.
06:50They have to follow the rules.
06:52They can't just come
06:52and do whatever they want
06:54and you can't just come
06:56and talk like,
06:58have you seen the way
06:59they are talking
07:00and they are not just children
07:01and yes,
07:01there has been a problem.
07:03People are suffering
07:04but it is for a better
07:05to ensure that safety
07:07of our citizens.
07:09You cannot have people
07:10coming into Delhi
07:11and it's for a very good...
07:12Who decides that?
07:13And also, all right,
07:14Ms. Khera,
07:14I just want to cut across
07:15to our other panelists.
07:16You say that you have seen
07:18bigger protests.
07:19I'm sure you've seen
07:20bigger protests.
07:21But as a journalist,
07:22I have not seen
07:23a bigger crackdown
07:24at least in the recent past.
07:26This has been the biggest
07:28lockdown kind of a situation
07:30where fortification
07:30of a city is concerned.
07:33And, you know,
07:34there are incidents...
07:39Sorry, ma'am,
07:40what did you say?
07:40Have you seen the messages?
07:42Do you know NSU
07:43and Youth Congress
07:44have made camps,
07:46temporary tents
07:46have been provided
07:47to these people
07:48to stay at Drysena Road
07:49in their office?
07:50Are you aware
07:51of the kind of messages
07:52that have circulated
07:52in the groups
07:53where they have been asked
07:55where police uniforms
07:55where police uniforms
07:57you can make
07:59all sorts of allegations
08:00and charges
08:01at the opposition.
08:02But to suggest
08:03that they are wasting
08:05taxpayers' money,
08:06that argument
08:07can be turned
08:08on your argument
08:09by using the kind...
08:12Resorting to the kind
08:13of measures
08:14you have resorted to,
08:15you are wasting
08:16taxpayers' money
08:17to curb free speech
08:19and the right to protest.
08:21I just...
08:21Madam,
08:21it's not an argument
08:22between you and I.
08:23Please understand that.
08:24You can give your point of view.
08:25I just want to bring in
08:26our other panelists
08:27into this conversation.
08:28Pooja Tripathi,
08:30Madam,
08:30I did give you time
08:31to speak.
08:32Now,
08:32you want to argue with me?
08:33I'm not going to allow that.
08:34I just want to get in
08:35Pooja Tripathi
08:35and then I'm going to
08:36Sanjay Jai as well.
08:37Pooja Tripathi,
08:38where is the Congress
08:39in the midst of all of this?
08:42Madam,
08:42you don't want to be on the show?
08:43Please feel free to leave.
08:45Don't want to be on the show?
08:46Don't be on the show.
08:47But please follow protocol
08:48of what is to be
08:49on a show,
08:50on a debate show.
08:50You cannot have free passage.
08:52All right.
08:53I want to...
08:53Pooja Tripathi,
08:54where is the Congress
08:55in all of this?
08:56You've had the TMC
08:57coming out in solidarity.
08:58You've had the left party
08:59coming out in solidarity.
09:01You've had
09:02Arwin Kejriwal,
09:03Ahmadinejee party
09:04coming out.
09:04Three former chief ministers
09:06today have been detained.
09:07Not a single Congress person
09:09is on the road
09:09in solidarity
09:10with this protest.
09:11So do you believe
09:12what's...
09:13this protest
09:14is something
09:14that you do not
09:15want to align with?
09:16Of course not pretty.
09:18Congress was out there
09:19for three days.
09:20Congress was out there
09:20on streets
09:21being manhandled,
09:22being dragged,
09:23being bitten,
09:24being detained.
09:25And our senior leaders
09:26and most of the opposition MPs,
09:28the India Bloc MPs,
09:29they have been treated
09:31how well by Delhi police
09:32is for there to see.
09:34Just now Radhika Khaira
09:35said this is for the,
09:36you know,
09:37safety of people.
09:38If you really care
09:39about the safety of people,
09:40put everybody in jail
09:41and then,
09:42you know,
09:43safety is ensured.
09:44If you take away
09:45the fundamental right
09:47to protest,
09:47the fundamental right
09:48to express,
09:49and these are people
09:50on the streets,
09:50I don't want to get
09:51into the politics
09:52because this is not
09:53a one-day fight.
09:54Let me tell you,
09:55Preeti,
09:56Congress and all
09:57the opposition MPs
09:57have planned a mega rally
09:59in Delhi or that will.
10:00And this goes on
10:02and as everybody
10:03is detained,
10:04people have come out
10:05in the streets
10:06even after fortification
10:07of Delhi,
10:08even after putting
10:09the capital under siege,
10:10if you have to detain...
10:11I believe your leader,
10:13Priyanka Gandhi
10:14has just resorted
10:16to social media,
10:18has just resorted
10:19to social media.
10:20That's the word
10:21we are getting in.
10:21Priyanka Gandhi Wadra
10:22has just tweeted out
10:23on the social media
10:24platform X.
10:25I want to take you
10:26through the latest
10:27on that.
10:28Priyanka Gandhi says
10:29first they rough up
10:30to 54 MPs
10:31and detain them
10:32completely illegally,
10:34infringing on their
10:34constitutional rights.
10:36They do the same
10:37to other protesters
10:38from opposition parties.
10:40Then they lay siege
10:41to the national capital,
10:42barricading it,
10:43sealing it from all sides.
10:44A long tweet there
10:46where Priyanka Gandhi
10:47lashing out on the BJP
10:48for the fortification
10:50of the national capital
10:51and the kind of force
10:52that has been used
10:53against opposition parties.
10:55She also says
10:55that they bash up
10:58and detain young men
11:00and women exercising
11:01their constitutional right
11:02to protest.
11:04All right.
11:04So even though
11:05the Congress Party
11:06is refusing to align
11:08with today's protest
11:10on the ground,
11:11Priyanka Gandhi
11:12speaking up today
11:14while Rahul Gandhi
11:15is in Chennai
11:16for Chhatro Ki Goonj program.
11:18I want to bring in
11:19Sanjay Jha
11:20into this conversation.
11:22Sanjay Jha,
11:22do you see
11:23that the opposition
11:24effectively
11:25has come together
11:26on this cause
11:27or do you see
11:27fragmentation in that?
11:30Preeti,
11:30let me tell you
11:31absolutely explicitly,
11:33there is no
11:34fragmentation
11:35at all.
11:36whether it's CGP,
11:38whether it's the opposition,
11:40whether it's other
11:40civil society,
11:42everyone is on the same page.
11:43We care for the future
11:45of Indian democracy
11:46and you need
11:47an electoral system
11:48that is robust,
11:50transparent and fair.
11:51It's as simple as that.
11:52There is enough document
11:53now on public record,
11:55not just from
11:55the Indian Express,
11:56but several other
11:57exposures thereafter
11:59that tell you
11:59that the entire
12:00SRI exercise
12:01is an absolute scam
12:04and this has to be
12:05investigated.
12:05Now, that's why
12:07everybody's there
12:08at the capital, right?
12:09Saying Gyanesh Kumar
12:10should go,
12:10but I want to make
12:11a couple of points
12:12very quickly.
12:12I was astonished
12:14to hear a seasoned
12:15veteran like Ravi Shankar Prasad,
12:18who's got tons of,
12:19or rather years
12:20of political experience,
12:22use words like
12:23anarchist for protesters.
12:24That's the language
12:25of fascism.
12:27Fascism says
12:28anyone who dissents
12:29is an anarchist,
12:30is somebody who's
12:31violent,
12:32nobody's being violent,
12:33it's a police
12:34which is being violent
12:35and aggressive.
12:36Point number two,
12:37very critical.
12:38India at the moment,
12:40Preeti,
12:40is looking like
12:41a police state.
12:42I'm telling you,
12:43I'm in Mumbai,
12:44I'm assuming so are you,
12:46August Karanti Maidan,
12:48not very far from
12:48where I am,
12:50is actually had people
12:51not being allowed
12:52to get in there.
12:53I have people who went
12:54there just around
12:56a couple of minutes ago
12:57who messaged me
12:58to say,
12:58well,
12:59it's as silent as ever
13:00because people have
13:01not been allowed
13:02to get in
13:03in August Karanti Maidan
13:04which is in a pretty
13:05bustling active place
13:07of the city.
13:08Point number three,
13:09this is an undeclared
13:11emergency.
13:12You know,
13:12I keep mentioning
13:13Mrs. Gandhi's emergency
13:15was 21 months,
13:16Narendra Modi has taken
13:18it to 144 months
13:20and that's a reality
13:21and we are living with it
13:22but everybody's going
13:23to fight for the
13:24future of democracy.
13:26Okay.
13:27You know,
13:28before I cut across
13:29back to Ms. Kera
13:29and I don't know
13:30if she's still with us
13:30but let's cut across
13:31back to her,
13:32I just want to bring
13:32in Vikram Singh
13:33because there is a
13:34policing angle
13:34to all of this as well
13:35and Vikram Singh
13:37if you hark back
13:38to the 22nd of July
13:39the last time around
13:40and the kind of violence
13:42we saw on the streets
13:43of the national capital,
13:45there was a cautionary
13:46tale built into that.
13:47Is this an overreaction
13:48of what we see on ground
13:50because even the top
13:51court of the country
13:51has said that you're
13:52using a hammer
13:53to swatterfly?
13:56Good evening,
13:57Priti Ji and ladies
13:58and gentlemen.
13:59I am not a political
14:00person and my standpoint
14:01only is in respect
14:03of the rule of law
14:04when you try,
14:06choose to disobey
14:07the orders pertaining
14:08to section 163
14:09of the Bharti Nagini
14:10Srikra Sangeeta
14:11and as for the
14:12Supreme Court directives
14:13also your gathering
14:14is illegal.
14:15Majma khilaaf kanun
14:17ho jata hai.
14:18But with the
14:18homes fund definitions
14:19that peaceful protest
14:21bashing up 200 Delhi
14:22policemen and women
14:23is not peaceful,
14:24vandalizing cannot
14:25place is not peaceful,
14:26marching up to the
14:27parliament is not
14:28peaceful,
14:29abusing the prime
14:29minister and all
14:30constitutional force
14:31and insisting on a
14:32meeting with the
14:33CEC at your terms
14:35and conditions
14:35is just not peaceful.
14:37Please revise your
14:38definition of peaceful
14:38and it's like the devil
14:40quoting the scriptures.
14:41We had earlier
14:42Ms. Savlin Singh
14:43also mentioning
14:44that this has not
14:45happened in the
14:45emergency.
14:46You've forgotten
14:46Turkuman Gate
14:4718th April 1976
14:498 days.
14:50But that was
14:51very peaceful.
14:53Then the Sikh
14:54carnage 1984
14:55that was not
14:56very peaceful.
14:57And then
14:57using the PSF,
14:59we in UP are
14:59accustomed to
15:00handling innumerable
15:01type of agitation.
15:02Delhi is not.
15:03Delhi police is a
15:04fast learner.
15:05They made their
15:05mistakes,
15:06they're caught on
15:06the wrong foot.
15:07In Jantar Mantar 1,
15:08they dropped the
15:09lessons out and it
15:10is the taxpayer's
15:11money.
15:11But everybody,
15:13if the citizens are
15:14inconvenienced in a
15:15minor margin,
15:16like I also,
15:17in the NCR,
15:18that is a small price
15:19one has to pay
15:20for seeing this
15:21level of
15:21desecration of
15:23all that we
15:24hold sacred.
15:25And therefore,
15:25I say,
15:26Constitution is not
15:28child's pay that
15:29somebody can
15:30slaughter it at
15:31will.
15:31And I would say,
15:32I take the
15:33strongest exception
15:33to the fact that
15:35trying to pay
15:35everything by the
15:37one, because if
15:37I haven't joined
15:38this time, it's
15:39my problem.
15:40These are things
15:41in perspective.
15:42I have nothing to
15:42gain or lose.
15:43I am a senior
15:44citizen, but
15:45politics should end
15:46where constitution
15:47begins.
15:48And therefore,
15:49constitution is
15:50sacred, rule of
15:51law is supreme.
15:53Don't try to
15:54interpret section
15:54163, preventive
15:56arrest as absolute
15:57massacre of
15:58democracy.
16:01Preeti, I don't
16:02agree with Mr.
16:02Sinha.
16:02Sanjay, I know
16:03you want to come
16:03in, but just
16:04stay on.
16:06But he's giving
16:07a policing
16:08perspective, Sanjay.
16:09You should raise
16:10your kids more
16:11appropriately.
16:11Preeti, raise
16:12your kids, so-called
16:13kids, more
16:14appropriately.
16:15I'm very
16:15disappointed by
16:16that.
16:18But sir, I
16:19think that's a
16:21tad bit harsh.
16:22To actually, I
16:23take your point.
16:24No, Mr.
16:25Singh, I take your
16:26point.
16:26I think it's
16:27valid when you
16:27speak about
16:28policing.
16:28You're coming
16:28after 22nd of
16:31July and we
16:32did see the
16:32kind of violence
16:33and in the
16:34rule of law, I
16:35hear you, but
16:36to tell people
16:38on how to bring
16:38up their kids, I
16:39think we all
16:40should, in the
16:41language of the
16:42Gen Z right
16:43now, MYOB,
16:44let people
16:45raise their
16:46kids in the
16:47manner in which
16:47they want to.
16:49I don't think we
16:51need to get
16:51into parenting.
16:53I don't think...
16:54Sir, sir, I
16:55hear you on
16:57your...
16:58It's a valid
16:59concern.
17:01Can I give a
17:02rejoinder to
17:02Mr. Singh?
17:03Sorry, sir?
17:07Go ahead, Mr.
17:08Ja.
17:08We can't really
17:09hear Mr. Singh
17:09very well, but
17:10go ahead.
17:11Yeah, I
17:11disagree with
17:12Mr. Singh
17:13completely.
17:15These are young
17:16people.
17:16They are citizens
17:17of India.
17:18They have a
17:19right to speak
17:20up on behalf of
17:21India's constitution
17:22and democracy,
17:23Mr. Singh.
17:24They have a
17:25fundamental right
17:26guaranteed to
17:27them by the
17:27constitution.
17:28They don't need
17:29any advice or
17:31sermons from
17:32a police force
17:34in India whose
17:35track record is
17:36highly questionable
17:37because India has
17:38seen institutionalized
17:39violence where the
17:41police is responsible
17:42for several
17:43excesses, including
17:44in the
17:45But, Sanjay, I
17:45just want to go
17:46back to our
17:47other panellists.
17:48The fact is...
17:49The fact is...
17:50Let's be real
17:51here.
17:51No, but, you
17:51know, one can
17:53raise concerns, but
17:54Sanjay, when Mr.
17:56Singh, when
17:56Vikram Singh speaks
17:57about policing, he
17:58has a point on
18:00ground, especially
18:01Sanjay, with what
18:02happened on 22nd of
18:03July.
18:04There might be
18:04atrocities on both
18:05sides, maybe more,
18:06especially with the
18:07use of pellet guns
18:08from the Delhi
18:08police, but the
18:10fact was things
18:11got out of hand.
18:13So maybe this is,
18:14like I said, a
18:14precautionary measure.
18:15Like Ranjit
18:16also said, I'll
18:17come back to you,
18:17sir.
18:18I'll come back to
18:19you.
18:19But then to get
18:20down to advising
18:21parents on how to
18:22raise their kids, I
18:24think that's, you
18:25know, uncalled for.
18:25But that's why, let's
18:27leave it at that.
18:27I want to go back, I
18:28want to bring in
18:29Radhika Khera into
18:30this conversation.
18:31Radhika Khera, the
18:31question is, for how
18:32long?
18:33How long?
18:34Because you said it's
18:34all peaceful, everything
18:35is fine, there is no
18:36traffic.
18:37Of course there is no
18:38traffic, because you've
18:39blocked six kilometers of
18:40every road that is in a
18:43diameter, that is leading
18:44to Jantar Mantar.
18:45You have blocked every
18:47train that is coming in,
18:48an express train that is
18:49coming into the national
18:50capital.
18:51More so, the home
18:52secretary of the
18:53country has written to
18:55states across the
18:56country saying this
18:57protest is banned, do
18:58not allow people to
18:59come into the national
19:01capital, despite law and
19:02order being a state
19:03subject.
19:04You have 33,000 police
19:05personnel, which include
19:06the BSF on ground.
19:07So, of course, things are
19:08going to be peaceful in
19:09central Delhi.
19:10Radhika.
19:12So, you don't want them
19:13to be peaceful?
19:13A, Pt, I said that there
19:16are places where there is a
19:17little jam and congestion
19:19because of the protest that
19:20is going on.
19:21But Delhi is open, people
19:22can travel.
19:23Yes, metro stations have
19:24been, we've seen how the
19:26NSU and Youth Congress
19:27were doing spray painting
19:30on the walls of the
19:32metro stations the day
19:33before yesterday.
19:34So, if we are taking
19:34precautionary measures to
19:36ensure that our public
19:37property is not distorted,
19:39broken and vandalized,
19:40what is wrong with it?
19:41You want, you don't want
19:42Delhi to be peaceful and
19:44you're comparing it to
19:45Mumbai.
19:45Someone was comparing it to
19:46Mumbai.
19:47There is no parliament in
19:48Mumbai, there is no
19:49prime minister in Mumbai,
19:51election commission, you
19:53can't have a mob going
19:54and attacking the
19:55parliament of India.
19:56Do you want Bangladesh
19:57and Sri Lanka in India?
19:58Is that what you're
19:59hoping for?
19:59And secondly, Priti, I
20:01did not ask, I did not
20:02even once say that I
20:03want to leave the debate.
20:04Maybe there was an echo
20:05issue or whatever.
20:06So, I am talking to you
20:07very nicely and I expect
20:08the same if you've invited
20:10me as a guest on your
20:10show.
20:11You don't need to get
20:12hyper on me.
20:12Third thing, you were
20:13playing Priyanka Wadra's
20:15tweet.
20:15But what is really appalling
20:17me today as a woman,
20:18you're talking to your
20:19children, you're
20:20singing against SIR.
20:23Has Priyanka Wadra taken
20:25out the time to tweet
20:26against the JMU
20:27professor, their
20:28sansat in the Lok Sabha?
20:30One word from Rahul
20:32Gandhi, one word from
20:33Priyanka Gandhi.
20:34Okay, you have a problem
20:35with Smith Machar and you
20:36did not tweet on him and
20:38you don't want to write
20:38anything about the
20:39caucus going, someone
20:41from India has made
20:42India proud.
20:43No, you have a
20:43leave.
20:44We understand your
20:45vote bank politics.
20:46But your Lok Sabha MP has
20:49been thrown out by JNU.
20:51He has, JNU has taken
20:52action.
20:53But have Rahul Gandhi and
20:54Priyanka Gandhi taken any
20:55action?
20:56One word, they are not
20:57bladkia or children who have
20:59been harassed by him.
21:00I mean, you can't have
21:01double standards just because
21:02you are unable to win an
21:04election.
21:05And they went and thought
21:06they say, no, rose, rose.
21:07Rose, rose, they say,
21:08that EVM is not a paper
21:10ballot.
21:11What happened in Tripura?
21:12What happened in Silchar?
21:13Silchar, even independents
21:14got more seats than the
21:15Congress party.
21:16You are not able to win
21:17elections.
21:18You are not able to reach
21:19out to the public and
21:20then try to create
21:21anarchy, try to create
21:23hooglism.
21:24That is not accepted.
21:25Fair point.
21:25But in India, you
21:26go to ground.
21:27In the last 11 years,
21:29when Rahul Gandhi even
21:30given one road map to
21:31the country?
21:31You talk about Mahila
21:32and you can't give
21:33nai to your own women.
21:34You have a rapist
21:35kind of an MP who
21:36you don't have the
21:38commission to do it
21:38I'm going to just cut
21:39across.
21:41Madam, there's more
21:42news coming in and
21:43there's something about
21:44respect, madam.
21:44It usually works on a
21:45mutual basis.
21:47And if you give
21:48respect, you will get
21:49the same respect back,
21:50especially on the show
21:51where it's, you know,
21:53you speak of
21:54hyperventilating.
21:54I think that we leave
21:56it that, you know, that
21:57for another day.
21:58But I'm glad you
21:59haven't left the show.
22:00I'm glad you're here.
22:01And I'm very happy
22:02you've decided to stay
22:03and put your point
22:04forward in a very
22:06calm manner, not
22:07hyper.
22:08All right.
22:09I want to cut across to
22:10the news break that we're
22:10getting in right now.
22:12Let's quickly get in news.
22:13And this is something that
22:14was echoed by Vikram Singh
22:15as well.
22:17protesters have attacked
22:18parliamentary forces.
22:20Both Radhika Khera and Vikram
22:22Singh had raised this issue
22:24and even Rajat had raised
22:26this issue where protesters
22:29now, and that's the news
22:30coming in, have attacked
22:31parliamentary forces.
22:32Stones have been pelted by
22:33protesters in Connaught Place.
22:35Cops chase away protesters.
22:37Two Delhi constables, Delhi police
22:40constables, I believe, have been
22:42injured.
22:44And yeah, they've been injured.
22:45This is what we've been getting
22:47in.
22:47We're going to try and get you
22:48visuals coming in.
22:49This was something that had
22:51happened the last time as well,
22:53which was the first protest that
22:55was called by the Cockroach
22:56Janata Party.
22:57And there was violence on
22:59either sides.
22:59These visuals coming in from
23:01Connaught Place where police
23:03personnel have been injured.
23:05And the allegation is that
23:07stones were pelted in CP.
23:10And I want to bring in Pooja
23:12Tripathi into this conversation
23:13because Pooja Tripathi, the
23:15allegation is that there is
23:18violence that is being used
23:19against the Delhi police as well.
23:21Something that was also raised
23:23the last time around.
23:24So therefore, when the
23:26authorities say that it's
23:28because of this that we have
23:30fortified the national capital
23:32because the protest has not
23:33been given permission.
23:34Now, that can be fought in a
23:36court of law.
23:36But where law and order is
23:38concerned, this was necessary,
23:39the fortification of the
23:40capital.
23:42Preeti, who is responsible for
23:44the law and order?
23:45I ask because it's the home
23:46minister.
23:47You say the police, you know,
23:48we don't support any kind of
23:50violence.
23:50Anybody who unleashed in
23:52violence on police forces need
23:54to be booked at.
23:54But similarly, the students
23:57that got injured, there were
23:58pellet gun injuries, there were
24:00AK-47 being directed as
24:02students.
24:02So don't, don't use this, you
24:04know, this rule book that there
24:06has been a stone pelting to
24:08fortify the whole Delhi.
24:10Right to protest, right to
24:11peaceful protestors as a right
24:13given to us by a constitution.
24:15These are the common people,
24:16these are the citizenry who is
24:18asking for electoral reports,
24:19who are asking their stake in
24:21democracy.
24:21And the way they have been
24:23detained right across from
24:24since yesterday, you know,
24:26hotels and hostels have
24:27radioed, internet have
24:28shut down.
24:29What message are you giving
24:30to?
24:31And when?
24:31And you are protecting
24:32yourself from your own
24:34people is what I'm asking.
24:35You're saying this is
24:36anarchy, this is anarchy.
24:37Anybody who is a fascist
24:39uses the word of words like
24:40anarchy for its own citizens,
24:42for its own people who are
24:43asking accountability.
24:46All right, so what we're also
24:48getting in, viewers, I just
24:49want to get you up to speed.
24:50Mr. Parti, just read it out
24:52once, you know, we're also
24:53getting in word that there are
24:56still incidents where
24:58detentions are taking place.
24:59There are a lot of protesters
25:00who are coming in small
25:02clusters across the national
25:03capital.
25:04Word coming in that certain
25:05protesters have also been
25:06detained in areas like, I
25:09believe, which is about 10 to
25:1012 kilometers away from
25:12central Delhi in Chitranjan Park
25:14as well.
25:14So understandably, the deadly
25:16police this time leaving
25:18nothing to chance.
25:19But the question is, Rajat,
25:21and I want to bring you
25:22back in, you know, what does
25:24it tantamount to?
25:25Because yes, you've been
25:26able, the kind of measures
25:27you've put in place, you've
25:29been able to stall a protest
25:31today.
25:31What about tomorrow?
25:32What about the day after?
25:33How long will this continue?
25:34What's the end game in it?
25:37I mean, for a policing force,
25:39the end game is to fight it
25:41out every day and ensure the
25:43law and order in the city is
25:45intact.
25:46That is literally the job
25:48description of the police.
25:49What's the political message,
25:50Rajat?
25:51So now you've changed it.
25:52Okay.
25:53Now the question is, what is
25:54the political message?
25:54I hear you on policing.
25:56Yeah.
25:56So see, the political message
25:58that was drawn in July was
26:01that, you know, when the
26:02protesters came out and
26:04started pelting stones, the
26:05narrative was that, hey, the
26:07stones have been brought by the
26:08Delhi police.
26:09police, there are certain
26:10anti-social elements which have
26:11penetrated the protest site.
26:15And police deliberately brought
26:16these anti-social elements to
26:17come out and discredit the whole
26:19protest.
26:20Now, all of these narratives were
26:22brought in in order to justify the
26:23attack that happened on the police
26:25personnel, the attack that happened
26:27on several vehicles of the police
26:29forces as well.
26:30And then you instigated the crowd
26:32when the parliament session was going
26:34on to just enter and barge into the
26:36parliament.
26:37Now, that is an absolute red line.
26:39If you cross that red line, there
26:40will be repercussions.
26:42And those repercussions can escalate.
26:44It becomes a tinderbox and a small
26:46spark.
26:47You just don't know where things can
26:49lead to.
26:49And I think this is where the
26:51positioning and the messaging of
26:53the police and of the political
26:55establishment, which would have
26:56instructed the police, is to ensure
26:58that absolutely no violence is
27:00initiated by the police, have
27:01enough evidences.
27:03So this is why everybody is with a
27:04body cam today, to ensure that no
27:06false narrative is propagated by
27:08these protesters at all.
27:09They were successful in that.
27:10This is how we got this video of
27:12these stone protesters, these stone
27:14pelters.
27:15We also see you're talking about
27:16Chitaranjan Park.
27:16No, you're talking about Chitaranjan
27:18Park.
27:18Let me tell you, even far away in
27:20Savdarjung Airport region, you are
27:22seeing protesters now protesting and
27:24pelting stones onto the police.
27:26So people, I mean, you try and
27:28contain the four square kilometer
27:29area, people will, these protesters
27:31will go on to those boundary areas
27:33and they'll start protesting there.
27:34So see, from a policing perspective.
27:37Okay, so now that's the policing
27:38angle to it.
27:39It's not...
27:39No, but this is also a political
27:41This is the policing perspective.
27:42Allow me to bring in...
27:43I want to get in Sanjay.
27:43No youth, no youngster faces any
27:47kind of attack because of any
27:49police activity.
27:50But for anyone who empathizes with
27:53the cause, Rajat, the political
27:54messaging is that this is a clamp
27:57down on the right to protest and
27:58free speech.
27:59And I'm talking about anybody who
28:01empathizes with the cause.
28:02And I don't think...
28:03Sorry?
28:04No, but that's what it is going to be.
28:06Anyone who empathizes with the
28:07cause is going to suggest that.
28:09No, no.
28:09They can...
28:10See, it's an interpretation...
28:11I'm not.
28:11I'm a journalist.
28:12I'm just analyzing it.
28:13No, no.
28:14But you can say that one of the
28:15aspects could be...
28:15That's my job.
28:16Everybody who empathizes...
28:17My job is to interpret and
28:18analyze.
28:19We'll go out and say that this is
28:20justified.
28:20See, today only...
28:21I didn't say everybody.
28:22I said most people.
28:24But, Rajat, I'm not saying
28:25everybody.
28:26I'm saying most people who
28:28empathize with the cause will
28:31empathize with the cause of what
28:33the CJP has demanded, will look at
28:35this as a clamp down in the manner
28:37of which has happened on free speech
28:40and the right to protest.
28:42He's very clear.
28:43Kejriwal said, just sit wherever
28:44you are.
28:45I mean, why do you want to huddle
28:46into the central Delhi itself?
28:48Just sit where you want to
28:49protest.
28:50People are right now.
28:50As I told you, they are sitting
28:51in sub-dhas.
28:52That's the designated area.
28:54The court has already asked the
28:55government to...
28:56That's the designated area of
28:58protest.
28:58Sanjay Jha, quick comments.
28:59No, of course not.
29:00That's the designated area.
29:01That's where they are going.
29:02All right.
29:03But that is a designated area,
29:05Rajat.
29:05What else is a designated area?
29:07The top court of the country has
29:08asked the government to
29:09designate another area if they
29:10don't think Jantar Mantar is
29:12fit enough.
29:13Yeah.
29:13That's what they've done.
29:14All right, Sanjay Jha, final
29:15comments.
29:16Yeah.
29:16Preeti, let me tell you, even
29:18the Supreme Court of India...
29:19Final comments.
29:20I need to take a break.
29:21Yeah.
29:21Even the Supreme Court of India
29:22talked about the theory of
29:25proportionality, that these are
29:27protests.
29:27I mean, you can't have a hammer to,
29:30you know, kind of nail, hit a nail.
29:32I mean, it's so preposterous.
29:34I mean, as somebody who's lived in
29:35Delhi for six years, I can't believe
29:38the students, the future of this
29:39country are aggrieved.
29:41They're upset.
29:42They have a right to protest.
29:44And look at the one aspect that is
29:46being totally ignored.
29:47If there is a technical argument that
29:49they needed to give a 10-day
29:51notice, well, they gave you a three-day
29:53notice, if there was nothing else
29:54happening in Jantar Mantar, what was
29:56the problem in still making an
29:58exception?
29:59What was the big deal?
30:0010 days minimum for what?
30:02It's just an operational requirement.
30:04If somebody wants a permission and
30:07Jantar Mantar is not being used, give it
30:09to them.
30:09What's the problem?
30:10There was no need for this police state
30:12culture.
30:13There was no need to cancel trains.
30:15You had to just give them permission.
30:17I mean, or else ask Mr. Gyanesh Kumar to
30:20resign.
30:20This government can't have the cake and
30:22eat it too.
30:23It's as simple as that.
30:24This is not about the BJP.
30:26It's about the future of this country.
30:28This is not about the RSS.
30:30This is not about the police trying to
30:31do the political messaging.
30:33This is not about the future of
30:34everybody watching the program.
30:36All right.
30:37Rajat really wants to come in.
30:38So does Radhika.
30:40But, okay, I have little time.
30:41I'm going to try and accommodate both
30:42of you.
30:42Rajat, do come in because there's
30:43another layer to it.
30:44You allow a protest.
30:45Last time they got the resignation of
30:47the education minister.
30:48What now?
30:49Go ahead.
30:50You know, because of the stress which
30:52comes in because of bizarre logic that
30:54is thrown at you, my hair has started
30:56falling.
30:56You know, on a serious note, we've seen
30:59how protests were accommodated in Delhi
31:00and the Prime Minister Modi.
31:02We saw what happened in farmer
31:03protest.
31:04Was that not absolutely patently
31:06illegal when highways were blocked?
31:09Who stood out in defense of the
31:11human rights or the rights of the
31:12citizen of this city?
31:14Did anybody come around?
31:15I mean, for six, seven, eight months,
31:18Shaheen Bagh became the other site
31:20which was absolutely choked.
31:21The entire areas were choked.
31:24The people living there.
31:25What about their rights?
31:26Rajat, I'm going to try and bring in
31:27Radhika.
31:28This is the reason a designated space
31:30is required and by the way,
31:32even in Jantar Mantar BSN.
31:34But Rajat, if the correlation is
31:36between, if the correlation is
31:39between bizarre logic and hair
31:40falling, then Sanjay has
31:42lesser hair than you.
31:44If it is, if the correlation is
31:45between bizarre logic and hair
31:47falling, Sanjay has lesser hair
31:48than you.
31:49So, Sanjay has been faced with
31:51more bizarre logic than you.
31:53So, I am very faithful of
31:54becoming Sanjay Ji.
31:55I don't want to...
31:56Okay, 10 seconds, Radhika.
31:57Go ahead.
31:58Yeah.
31:58You know, Priti, it's...
32:00But he's facing up
32:01bizarre logic by that logic.
32:03No, no, no.
32:04I'm saying it's crazy to hear...
32:06RSS doesn't understand logic.
32:08A former congress spokesperson
32:10talking about giving permission.
32:122011, 5th June,
32:14at 1 p.m.
32:16Baba Ramdev was
32:17protesting very peacefully.
32:18Who was the last thing?
32:19Are you forgetting
32:21what your government did?
32:22You were a spokesman.
32:23We didn't get to Delhi
32:23from Bangladesh.
32:26And we didn't get to Delhi
32:27from Delhi.
32:27We didn't get to Delhi.
32:28Because you didn't live in Delhi.
32:29I was there.
32:30We live in Delhi.
32:31You don't know anything about our Delhi.
32:33You were in Congress.
32:34You defended it.
32:35Sir, I was in Congress.
32:37You defended it.
32:38Don't be a hypocrite.
32:38Sir, I was in Congress.
32:40Don't be a hypocrite.
32:41All right, I need to...
32:42Okay, okay.
32:42Hypocrite after...
32:43Okay, I'm going to...
32:43Okay, you know, it's a time out.
32:45I'm going to get into a quick break.
32:47I appreciate Sanjay Jha, Rajud Sethi,
32:48Radhika Khera, Pooja Tripathi
32:50for joining us.
32:51We're going to leave it at that.
32:52Thank you, all three of you
32:53for coming on.
32:54I'm going to quickly get into a break.
32:56But we're back.
32:56We're going to get you
32:57the latest updates
32:57coming in from ground
32:58and the ground reports
32:59that have been filed
33:00by my colleagues.
33:01A quick break.
33:02Stay with me.
33:03We're going to leave it at that.