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00:09Good evening, I'm Abby Phillip here with a special edition of Newsnight.
00:13This summer we're taking the show on some field trips, spending our days right here at the Food Network's Test
00:19Kitchen in New York.
00:20They're our sister company. And we, of course, have a fabulous chef serving friends of the show.
00:25And she has a special treat for us at the end of tonight's show. But first, with the midterm elections
00:32now a little more than four months away,
00:34President Trump is taking his new political message out for a spin. And he's conjuring up a familiar boogeyman.
00:42These are not social Democrats. These are hardcore, godless communists. They're godless communists. All communists are godless.
00:51They don't believe in God. This is the most serious threat to our country since its existence, in my opinion,
00:59250 years ago.
01:00This is a major threat to our country.
01:04Trump was making that pitch to Christian conservatives at the Faith and Freedom Coalition earlier today,
01:10just days after New York's primary elections, where we saw three self-proclaimed Democratic Socialists win their races.
01:16New York City mayor Zoran Mabdani endorsed all three of them. And if Trump's message there wasn't clear enough for
01:23you,
01:23here is a little bit more of what we might expect to hear from now until Election Day.
01:29It's happening right now in New York and California. But you'll start living in squalor.
01:37You'll live in squalor. There will be no food. There will be no housing. There will be no military.
01:42There will be no law and order. There will be no nothing. There will be no nothing.
01:46You'll be a third world inhabitant in every way, and everyone will suffer or die. You'll suffer or die. This
01:54is what happens.
01:57So from socialism now to communism, Josh, I wonder what you think of the risk, actually, for Democrats in handing
02:06the Republicans a message like that.
02:08I don't think that they're handing the Republicans a message. The Democrats know what they're going to do.
02:12They're going to run that message where they can run it. And across the country, where they can't run it,
02:18they're not going to run it.
02:19President Trump's going into this midterms with a significant advantage because of his performance.
02:26And we see him do this. He's just going to kind of replace the caravan scare that he does at
02:32every midterm with the DSA.
02:35But I don't think it's going to work when you have gas prices as high as they are.
02:39I don't think it's going to work when you have Mom Donnie showing people that he can fill potholes with
02:44that same socialism that Donald Trump is trying to scare people out of engaging with.
02:49I also think it hasn't really worked that well. I mean, they've been claiming that they would run Mom Donnie
02:55is a socialist and Democrats are socialist ads all over the country.
02:59And I don't know that it's really changed the dynamic and the special elections that we've seen thus far and
03:04certainly not Trump's relationship with Mom Donnie.
03:06He has embraced him practically at the White House.
03:09He has, and vice versa with Mom Donnie. I mean, he's been two times, I think.
03:13And frankly, I've watched the president treat Mom Donnie better than I've watched him treat members of his own party,
03:17like Marjorie Taylor Greene and Thomas Massey.
03:19That is actually true.
03:22And I think he actually, I think on a personal note there, I think the president likes that Mom Donnie
03:26is a New Yorker.
03:27And I think in a weird way, he has respect for how hard it is to win the New York
03:30City mayor's race.
03:31And he respects him as a showman and the kind of the way he practices politics.
03:37Funny enough, the president views AOC in a similar way.
03:40He always says she's like Evita.
03:42It is true, right?
03:43She's the young, shining face of socialism.
03:46Eva Perón, right?
03:47I'm one of you.
03:48Look at me.
03:48You can see yourself in me.
03:50But the president, I do agree that I think communism is absolutely the most pressing threat facing our country.
03:55And I'm glad that he sees that because this country will die by suicide from electing socialists before Iran ever
04:01launches a nuclear weapon at us.
04:02So I do think we're on the right path with that.
04:04But it's going to be an age thing.
04:06The word communism, communist, is a dirty label to people over 60.
04:10Americans under 40, not so much.
04:13I mean, we're just picking a new scare tactic as far as I'm concerned.
04:16This is getting insane.
04:17He's up there saying you're going to live in squalor with no food and no housing and no law and
04:21order.
04:21We have that for many people right now.
04:23That's why people are voting for democratic socialists, because they want government to look out for them again.
04:28They want affordable housing.
04:29They want to have groceries that they can afford.
04:31And I keep thinking about, like, that old expression that's like capitalism, only a few can be rich.
04:37Communism, nobody can be rich.
04:39And democratic socialism is anyone can be rich, but no one should be poor.
04:42And I think that's what they're trying to go for here.
04:44And I think that's what we should be looking at because they're really modeling themselves after the Nordic countries,
04:49countries, Denmark, Sweden, those kind of places, that have the highest-ranked, happiest country and citizens in the world.
04:55And I think there's a lot of young Americans, particularly, that are like, this doesn't work for me at all.
04:59I have a worse quality of living than my parents ever did.
05:02We are the first generation that are like that.
05:04What can we do differently?
05:05And this is what we could do differently.
05:06Let me play what AOC said just tonight about this new line from the Republicans.
05:11Listen.
05:15The one thing that we know is that the Republican Party's brand is fear.
05:20And they have to constantly churn what they want people to be afraid of, to be afraid of socialists, to
05:28be afraid of immigrants, to be afraid of women, to be afraid of...
05:32They constantly want Americans in fear of somebody.
05:38Because if you are not afraid of someone who is your neighbor, you're going to realize who's actually pickpocketing you.
05:52Look, 7% of people who could vote in those congressional races voted.
05:57Wrap your brain around that.
05:5993% of people who are eligible to vote did not vote.
06:04So saying that the message is resonating or it's not resonating, what's resonating is people aren't voting.
06:10People don't care.
06:11There is...
06:13Now you can do early voting, right?
06:15I voted early because my son was playing baseball on the baseball field on Saturday.
06:19And I looked, oh, wow, I could just go in here.
06:21And I voted.
06:21It's so easy.
06:22It took me seven minutes to go vote.
06:24So we have made it very easy for people to go vote.
06:27But they've decided not to vote.
06:29So you can't...
06:30This is not a statistical analysis that you can rely upon about what message is resonating and what message is
06:36not resonating.
06:37When in 93%, I mean, the message is people don't care or they don't think their vote counts.
06:42But, you know, you can't say, whoa, it's a huge thing when it's 7%.
06:46But we're talking about the three congressional races in New York.
06:50We're talking about Mom, Donnie.
06:51That democratic socialism has been on the scene.
06:53I mean, Bernie Sanders ran for president twice as a democratic socialist.
06:57AOC is a known democratic socialist.
07:01Bernie Sanders got nowhere, right?
07:03I mean, he got nowhere.
07:04I mean, Joe Biden was the candidate.
07:06You can either look at it as he got nowhere or he ran as a democratic socialist.
07:11And he basically was the runner-up in the democratic primary.
07:15He got shown now.
07:16So he went pretty far.
07:18He didn't go nowhere.
07:19And democratic socialism hasn't gone anywhere because it comes with the ideas that people want,
07:23which is things like affordable housing, affordable childcare, paid family leave.
07:26But it also comes with abolishing society.
07:29But America is about...
07:30No, that's true.
07:33This is a capitalistic society.
07:34And today, I was just looking at some polling research today, 67% of Americans say that they
07:38are more afraid of running out of food than death.
07:42Than death.
07:43And we've had a 16% increase since President Trump has been in office.
07:47My point is this.
07:48If you don't want people to be curious about socialism, capitalism has to work a lot better.
07:54It's really...
07:54I don't think President Trump would disagree with what you just said.
07:58Well, guess what?
07:59Today, President Trump was out here talking about America will never be a socialist country.
08:02America will never be a communist country.
08:04When he just asked for $11 billion in subsidies for farmers because capitalism is killing American
08:11agriculture, his capitalistic war in the Mideast is not allowing fertilizer to get to
08:17American agriculture.
08:19So it's failing all around.
08:21It's killing people, right?
08:22And people are afraid and ready to do something else.
08:26Yeah.
08:27Well...
08:27Go ahead.
08:28People don't want socialism.
08:30Is that what you're saying?
08:30They do want socialism.
08:31They want capitalism.
08:32But capitalism...
08:33We're living in late-stage capitalism.
08:35To use a Karl Marx story.
08:36We're living in late-stage capitalism.
08:38We're living in predatory capitalism.
08:39Where people feel like they can't have ownership in their society.
08:42Americans want to feel like they can own a part of their society.
08:45And too many Americans under 40, when the average age of the first-time homebuyer is 40 years
08:50old, feel that they can't achieve ownership.
08:52So let me just ask you a question.
08:52And if they can't achieve ownership...
08:53When Mayor Mondani says, we're freezing the rents, we're freezing the rents, and if the
08:58landlords can't carry the buildings because the rents are frozen, he said, maybe we'll
09:04give the buildings...
09:05Give the buildings to the tenants.
09:08You think that's the American way?
09:10No, it's the...
09:11He diagnoses the correct problem with the wrong solution.
09:16That sounds...
09:17I mean, that's what he said.
09:18He said...
09:18He goes, well, give the buildings...
09:20Give the buildings to the tenants.
09:22Not that they've earned them.
09:23Not that they deserve them.
09:24I do think, though, you know, you're making a policy dispute with Mondani, which I think
09:31is totally fair.
09:32But when you look at the fact that all of that being said, and trust me, everything was
09:36thrown at him but the kitchen sink, he's still the most popular politician.
09:40in New York right now.
09:42Listen, he's still in his honeymoon period.
09:44And you're going to think I'm being facetious, but I'm not.
09:47The New York Knicks winning, too, and this winning streak, and that he's a Knicks fan
09:51has helped him tremendously.
09:53Here in New York, this is a national show, but in New York, he's been on the cover of
09:57every newspaper with the Knicks, and that has been wonderful for any mayor, whether it
10:01was Giuliani with the Yankees or him with the Knicks, and he's still in a honeymoon period.
10:06Let's see what happens.
10:07What's helping him is that he's delivering on his promises.
10:11He's coming in.
10:11He's delivering on his promises.
10:13And you know who gets hurt when he frees the rents?
10:15To some degree.
10:16To some degree, the tenants.
10:18You know why?
10:18Because you think the landlord's going to put in a new counter?
10:21You think the landlord's going to put in a new refrigerator?
10:23Well, he's arguing that they're not going to do that.
10:25He's arguing they're not doing that anyway.
10:27But there's a percentage that is, and there's a percentage that's not.
10:30He came in and he stopped slumlords from not doing things to buildings that they have avoided
10:33for years.
10:34He came in and he balanced the budget.
10:36He didn't balance the budget.
10:37Hold on.
10:37Kathy Hochul balanced the budget.
10:39He went to the governor.
10:40He worked together.
10:40He went to the governor.
10:41He worked together with her.
10:43And that's what politics is, is it not?
10:45Eric Adams did that, as did Bill de Blasio, as did Bloomberg, as did Giuliani.
10:49He didn't do anything you need.
10:51It's not worthwhile.
10:51Except have to borrow money from the state.
10:52I just want to play one more thing.
10:54This is from Trump.
10:55This is, remember today he was speaking at this conservative Christian conference.
10:59And he frames this whole debate as not just a threat against capitalism, but a threat
11:03against Christianity.
11:05Listen.
11:08These ruthless communists will attack all religions, but in particular Christianity.
11:15I don't think so.
11:17I think that President Trump is actually touching on something that is very real there.
11:21There's been a relationship between capitalism and American Christianity for the longest time,
11:26right?
11:26And honestly, you know, depending on how you're looking at it, both of those things have been
11:31decently dangerous to black Americans.
11:33Black Americans were the capital that allowed capitalism to exist, right?
11:39And also suffered the forced adoption of Christianity as well.
11:43So those two things actually do have a through line.
11:46I think President Trump signals to his, he throws red meat to his base, who sees those
11:51two things together, right?
11:53Their versions of Christianity don't want to give money to the poor.
11:56Their versions of Christianity don't want to take health care away from people.
12:00And that is what capitalism has been doing in America for the longest time as well.
12:05So I think he's hitting on something real.
12:06I just want to say, though, I actually think it was American Christians that led part of
12:10the abolition movement against slavery.
12:12There were plenty of Christians who were leading the charge of liberating and ending slavery.
12:18I don't think anyone's questioning the Christians.
12:19I disagree with that.
12:20My problem is that I think he's using Christians again, he's using an entire religion again
12:26to fear them into having their religion taken away, which they are in no danger of it happening,
12:30to make them more afraid.
12:32So if you're not afraid of communism, I'll give you being poor.
12:35If you're not afraid of that, I'll give you trans people.
12:36If you're not afraid of that, I'll say, we'll take your religion.
12:38And I think the thing is that there's so many Americans out here that just want basic things,
12:42right?
12:42We want affordable health care, housing, clean water and air, safe streets, good schools,
12:46like all these things.
12:47They don't want to abolish ICE, which a lot of democratic socialists want to do.
12:50And that's a position that 70% of Americans don't support.
12:53And Americans might be kind of interested in some of the DSA.
12:55I don't think you're right with the 70% of that.
12:55Oh, I'm right.
12:56Fact check me.
12:57Sure.
12:58I will.
12:58That'd be great.
12:59Someone else talk check her.
13:00We'll do that in the break.
13:02We do want to invite you over at home to join this debate.
13:06Head to CNN.com slash Abby.
13:08You can weigh in on this conversation, and we will get to some of your comments at the end of
13:12tonight's show.
13:13But next for us here, J.D. Vance compares himself to Richard Nixon and says Watergate would be just a
13:2012-hour news story in today's era.
13:22Plus, Gavin Newsom calls for a national billionaire's tax while opposing one in his own state.
13:29We'll discuss.
13:35Tonight, J.D. Vance attempts to rewrite history, telling donors at the Nixon Library that he doesn't think the Watergate
13:41scandal was a big deal at all.
13:44I think that his historical legacy is enjoying a bit of a renaissance, but I think deservedly so.
13:51As I joked with Robert backstage, if Watergate happened tomorrow, it would be like a 12-hour news story.
13:59The idea that it would have taken down a presidency is crazy.
14:02And by the way, if you look at the story of how the deep state took down Richard Nixon, it's
14:11not all that different from what the same groups of people,
14:15the same institutions, tried to do to Donald Trump and the first Trump administration.
14:19There is a parallel.
14:23Just a quick history lesson for you.
14:25The Watergate scandal stemmed from a botched attempt authorized by Nixon aides to bug the DNC offices at the Watergate
14:32Hotel.
14:32After investigations by the press and Congress, we learned that, one, Nixon was aware of the break-in.
14:38Two, he directed hush money payments to the burglars to cover it up.
14:42And three, he pressured the CIA to stop an FBI investigation into the matter.
14:48And, of course, it revealed that Nixon was secretly recording his White House conversations.
14:54Is the point here that if you rehabilitate Nixon, who was also impeached, maybe you can rehabilitate Trump, too, as
15:04well, because he's also been twice impeached?
15:06Well, I mean, I don't know.
15:08I can't speak for the vice president what the point he was trying to make.
15:11Look, there were things that President Nixon did during his presidency that were unique, right?
15:16He opened the door to China, and his secretary of state was exceptional.
15:22You know, he got us out of Vietnam.
15:25So there were many things that he did.
15:26We could have been out of Vietnam before because of him.
15:28Under Lyndon Johnson.
15:29Under the Democrat limit, Lyndon Johnson, we could have gotten out.
15:32Or under Kennedy.
15:33So there's plenty of people you could have talked to.
15:37Yeah, Lyndon Johnson could have pulled the plug right there after Kennedy got killed.
15:40But he chose not to.
15:41But isn't that a different argument than what he's making?
15:44I don't agree.
15:44He's basically saying, you're saying, let's talk about the good things.
15:49In my opinion.
15:51He's saying that the bad things weren't really bad, and it was really just the deep state
15:54going after Nixon.
15:55You're correct.
15:55Which is not true.
15:56You're correct.
15:57And it's sad.
15:59I think one of the points that he's making is there's been so many things that have happened
16:03from the time of Nixon until the time of Trump.
16:07Bill Clinton was impeached, right?
16:08He lied under oath.
16:09Clinton, Nixon was never accused of lying under oath.
16:13Nixon was never impeached.
16:14He left before he was impeached.
16:16He was accused of authorizing a burglary and paying you much money.
16:20And he resigned.
16:21He was accused of, just so I may, those are all things that are more significant.
16:26Just to be clear, I didn't say I agree that it would be a 12-hour news story.
16:33But I agree it would be a 12-hour news story today.
16:36I do agree, because there are so many other crimes happening that it would be that obstruction
16:41of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress, which is what he would have been
16:46impeached for.
16:47Hunter Biden, Bill Clinton, Obama with the Russian collusion.
16:50I'm going to finish talking.
16:51I'm going to finish talking.
16:52You stop talking.
16:54I'm going to finish talking.
16:55Okay, great.
16:56So here's the thing.
16:57We're all in.
16:57We're all in.
16:58Just to be clear, you interrupted him.
17:00He's interrupting you.
17:00Nixon.
17:01It would be better if none of that happened.
17:02Nixon went down.
17:03We were both wearing our pink today, so we're just feisty little heartbeats.
17:05Listen, it will be a 12-hour news story today, because a lot has changed since then.
17:10And I think it's not just the crimes that have happened.
17:13It's not just what went down with whatever president at whatever time.
17:16We also had a president back when Nixon was who had the good sense to step down before
17:20he was impeached.
17:21We had a Republican Party with the self-respect to get him to do it before he was impeached.
17:26We had an American press corps that would actually go out, discover the truth, print the truth,
17:31even if it was about the president, and not to say nothing because they wanted access
17:35or they wanted to write a book after.
17:36How did the press corps do then?
17:37Give me a break.
17:39You want to talk about a press corps not holding power to account?
17:42How many people in the liberal mainstream media covered up, this is extensively documented,
17:48for the Biden administration?
17:49What's the crime?
17:51Caroline, what's the crime that you're alleging that Biden committed?
17:55If you're a journalist, you have an obligation to the truth.
17:57No, no, no, but you're trying to make a crime.
17:59What's us, the American people, we're trying to make a crime in?
18:01We had a commander in chief.
18:02Hold on a second.
18:02What did Biden do?
18:03You're trying to make an analogy here.
18:05So what is the crime?
18:06That the commander in chief was clearly unwell.
18:10Right, compromised.
18:11Compromised.
18:12And everybody around him, including people in power, and the media that is supposed to
18:15What was the ailment, Caroline?
18:17What was it?
18:19Oh.
18:19What was it?
18:20I believe, and I say this with a lot of compassion.
18:23I say this with a lot of compassion.
18:26There is obviously, Arthur, you're a lawyer, Arthur.
18:31There is a difference between criminal activity and people who say that a president should
18:37step down because they're getting too old.
18:39I'm not saying that Joe Biden should have stayed in the presidency.
18:43I'm just saying they are fundamentally different things.
18:45Okay, but what she was saying was, with the critique of the media and what the media covers
18:49that's true and not true, what she's saying is the media didn't cover how Joe Biden did.
18:54I think that the media appropriately covered Nixon's crimes.
18:58Yes.
18:58That's what I'm saying.
18:59That is an appropriate use of the media.
19:02Yeah.
19:02They covered his crimes.
19:03Woodward.
19:03That was historic.
19:04Hat on the back to Bob Woodward and Bernstein.
19:07But if we could, we have a crime that's way bigger like Epstein and no one is covering it.
19:11No one is talking about it.
19:12But Epstein's not a crime for the presidency?
19:15Yes, it is.
19:16He's directly involved.
19:18We even know that there was a...
19:19Wait, hold on.
19:20What do you mean how was he directly involved?
19:21I will say, listen, I will say this about, on the Epstein piece, we don't know that the
19:26president was involved in any crimes related to Epstein.
19:29But we do know he's in there.
19:31So I do think that, again, we're talking about a former president who I think history has
19:38appropriately assessed his legacy, his failings.
19:42At the time, his own party thought that he had gone too far and said, you need to step
19:48down.
19:49And I don't...
19:51J.D. Vance's desire to rehabilitate that, he's not alone in that, by the way.
19:56This has been a project from some on the right for a long time.
20:01But to what end?
20:02What are we trying to say about what is appropriate for the presidency by doing that?
20:06I have no idea.
20:08I'll never try to speak for J.D. Vance.
20:10I think J.D. Vance is actually quite smart.
20:11He went to Yale.
20:12He knows what he's doing by making these, like, trying to beautify Nixon's presidency.
20:19One thing I can say from watching that is that, like, in a lot of ways, I actually do
20:23agree that President Trump is like Nixon because, you know, Nixon was awful.
20:28Nixon was racist.
20:29I remember Nixon in an audio tape with Reagan laughing about black people being
20:34described as monkeys.
20:35I remember President Trump posting a video of the former President Barack Obama and his
20:41wife, Michelle Obama, as monkeys.
20:43So I know they have similarities there that are just, like, stark.
20:48But I don't know what J.D. Vance was trying to say there.
20:51I don't know what he was trying to do.
20:51But he was also at the Nixon Library, wasn't he, Abby, when he made those remarks?
20:56So, of course.
20:56What do you think?
20:57He's going to badmouth Nixon when he's at the Nixon Library?
21:00You know, I actually think, Arthur, I'm going to compliment you.
21:03I think you appropriately cited things that you can pull out of Nixon's legacy and say,
21:08let's talk about these things, right?
21:11He had a choice in that moment.
21:13What do we talk about when we talk about Richard Nixon?
21:16Do we talk about his relationship with China?
21:18Do we talk about the policy decisions that he made?
21:20Or do we talk about the fact that the deep state went after him?
21:23He chose the deep state and made an analogy between himself and the current president and
21:28the crimes.
21:30Correctly, I did not agree with that statement for the record.
21:33That's what's amazing.
21:34You know, when you talk about the racist stuff, my favorite president is Bill Clinton, but
21:37he said horrible things about Italians.
21:39Horribly.
21:40He called Mario Cuomo a mafioso.
21:42So, you know.
21:43So it's all good.
21:44I don't know what we're doing with that.
21:47I mean, how do you feel about Bill Clinton caught on time calling Mario Cuomo a mafioso?
21:54It's genuinely not the point.
21:54But he was the sitting governor of New York State.
21:57But you're, like, why bully him?
21:58And then you're, I'm not bullying him.
21:59You're bullying him?
21:59I ain't bullying you, Josh.
22:00Maybe in the barber's chair, he'll bully you with that head and hair.
22:04But I don't think I'm bullying you.
22:05Okay, let me let Josh respond, and then we'll go.
22:07I don't even know where you're going with that point, to be honest with you.
22:10Well, I'm talking about presidents say stupid, horrible things.
22:12And President Trump has said a lot of that.
22:14And so has President Clinton.
22:15Probably the most of them.
22:16And then Nixon ended his career with 22% approval rating, which is the lowest ever.
22:20President Trump is tied for the second lowest ever, 34%.
22:24And I will say that even to this day, just 19% of Republicans would describe Nixon as having an
22:31outstanding presidency.
22:32So I'm not sure what island J.D. Vance wants to be on on that one.
22:36Speaking of things that you should not say out loud, our new show, Confessions and Obsessions, is now streaming.
22:41Right now, I sit with a group of familiar faces, and they reveal things that they want to get off
22:46their chest and a few things they cannot stop thinking about.
22:50Check it out at cnn.com slash Confessions and Obsessions or on the CNN app.
22:56Next for us, though, Gavin Newsom versus Gavin Newsom.
23:12Tonight, California's Governor Gavin Newsom is calling for a national tax on the ultra-wealthy as he weighs a potential
23:192028 presidential run.
23:22The system the American founders built, well, was designed to prevent the concentration of power in a few hands.
23:30But we've allowed that concentration to happen anyway, slowly and in plain sight over the course of decades and decades.
23:37But we can reverse it. We can reverse it together.
23:40It's time to democratize the American economy to save our democracy.
23:48But come November, voters in his home state are going to decide whether or not to impose a similar one
23:55-time 5% tax on billionaires.
23:57But Newsom says he will not support that initiative.
24:01He argues the California plan will drive businesses out of the state and that revenue would not be spread around
24:07enough.
24:08Lee, you're a Californian.
24:12Is it political opportunism for Gavin Newsom to suddenly come out in favor of a wealth tax when he opposes
24:19it at home?
24:20I think you could make that argument, but that's not the argument I would make.
24:23I would say that the thing about what's on our ballot, which is a 5% tax on anyone over
24:30a billion dollars and then it gets divided up into certain places,
24:33what his argument is, is that's not enough and it's not going to go far enough.
24:36What he's talking about for the entire country, which I prefer anyway instead of doing it on a state-by
24:40-state basis,
24:41is because the argument people always make with Mom Donnie when he came in, with Gavin in California,
24:47is that people will leave. They will leave. The rich people will leave if they're taxed this much.
24:51Now, I'm of the inclination to say, okay, go. Bye-bye.
24:55But if that is the argument, if you make the entire country the same and you go over the ultra...
25:00So you're making the tax rates now not just so they serve the ultra-rich, not just so they serve
25:05a certain class of people,
25:06a true minimum tax rate where you change inheritance tax and you change what we do with the tax codes,
25:12including the corporate tax rate, and you make sure the corporate tax rates are higher.
25:15This is a completely different argument than just a 5% on billion dollars.
25:18He also made the argument about money fleeing when it comes to California. Listen to this.
25:26But at a national level, we're competing with 50 states. Capital flows and move. That's real. It's not imagined. It's
25:34very, very real.
25:36I mean, capital also can flow across borders, too. So it's not as if, like, a national tax would eliminate
25:44the idea of people,
25:46rich people, moving from one place to another to avoid being taxed on their, by the way, unrealized assets,
25:52which is what this is about, is largely about.
25:54Yeah. So I was sitting with a billionaire in Europe, and a table just like this, his yacht's there, his
26:02helicopter's there,
26:03it was a group just like this, and he asked all the Americans,
26:06what's the most pressing problem facing your country? And everyone said, China and social media and political polarization.
26:12And he said, no, the most pressing problem facing your country is the growing gap between the haves and have
26:17-nots.
26:17And he's correctly diagnosed the problem. But Gavin Newsom saying you're going to tax billionaires is the wrong solution.
26:23Billionaires have the most economic mobility out of anybody. They can do exactly just that.
26:28Oh, the U.S. tax code isn't favorable to me anymore? All right, cool. I'll just leave.
26:32I could name three more policies that Gavin Newsom could name, but he won't because he's a coward,
26:36that would actually help create wealth and create a thriving middle class in America, which is what we need to
26:41do.
26:41One, we could keep up with mass deportations. I mean, illegal immigrants compete and depreciate the wages of the American
26:47working class,
26:48making it harder for them to afford life, to have ownership, to get into the stock market, to have capital.
26:53That's entirely untrue.
26:53The two income can't, as many of the people in the United States, that is entirely untrue and has not
26:58been proven at all.
26:59We could forgive student loan debt.
27:00We have so many people in our country who are saddled with student loan debt for degrees that are now
27:05worthless.
27:05We should forgive that student loan debt. We're not going to create more wealth by taxing billionaires.
27:09And that's what we need to focus on. Just out of curiosity, so when Biden forgave the student loan debt,
27:15you were good with that?
27:16Absolutely. I would love to see Republicans embrace that. I'm serious. We should do that.
27:20All right. Wealth tax. I mean, again, I'm just wondering the timing of this.
27:27It's coming a couple of days after these Democratic Socialists win these elections.
27:31Gavin Newsom wants to run for president. He is reading the tea leaves. And the tea leaves say,
27:35kind of what Caroline is saying, which is that people are fed up with rich people being stupidly rich,
27:40and they continue to be poor. And when you look at the taxes paid by the top share of the
27:48population
27:49versus how much wealth they have, look at this chart. You don't even need to be great at charts
27:54to see what's going on here. The wealthy, their wealth has far outstripped their share of taxes
28:01over the last several decades. So that's the reality that most people, they don't know the numbers,
28:07but they're living this reality where they just see rich people getting really rich,
28:10and their taxes are going up this much, a little smidge.
28:14I know, but Abby, in New York City, I know, but New York City, Lee goes, okay, just let them
28:19go.
28:19Just let them go. They pay, I think they pay 49%. One percent pays like 50% of the taxes.
28:27So if they leave, it's not very good for the sanitation department, for the fire department,
28:33for the department of education. We need them to stay here. We need their income. With that being said,
28:39look, we have a tax system that's incremental, right? If you make $30,000, you only pay a small
28:45amount of tax. You pay over $100,000, a little bit more. A quarter of a million, you pay a
28:49little
28:49bit more. Okay, so if you pay a billion, if you make a billion, God bless you, you should pay
28:53a
28:53little bit more. I have no problem when billionaires pay a little bit more. But you know, the problem
28:57is that that's not how it works when you get to that level of wealth. When you get to that
29:01level of
29:02wealth, well, no, what I'm saying is that when you get to that level of wealth, here's the conundrum,
29:07here's the conundrum that we're in as a country. When you get to that level of wealth,
29:11you're not making really any money on paper. You might be making $1,000, right? And what they're
29:19doing, they have assets, and they take loans against their assets. Those loans are untaxed.
29:25It's free money. And I will say, the one thing about this proposal from Gavin Newsom is that it
29:32does talk about ending that tax-free lifestyle loophole, meaning you take a loan against your
29:39assets in stock, and the IRS has nothing to do with it. That's just free cash to you.
29:45Here's Ro Khanna explaining that part of the proposal and why it's so popular,
29:51even among the wealthy. Listen.
29:57Taxing the loans on assets is something that the tech oligarchs themselves have proposed.
30:04You ask any of these tech billionaires, I know them. They say, well, why don't you just tax the
30:08loans on assets? Why? Because that will raise a fraction of the revenue of an actual wealth tax,
30:14the kind that Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or I have proposed.
30:21I mean, that seems like something a lot of people can get behind.
30:24I think a lot of people can get behind it. I think that the majority of people are at their
30:27wit's end with this. You were just saying this earlier. 77% of Americans think that the
30:33billionaires should get taxed more. And that's like 65% of Republicans. You know what's bad when
30:37you've got conservative Republicans saying that this is something that they need to get on. So
30:40I think absolutely people can get behind this. People have to get behind this. Billionaires
30:44are stalling the American economy. And sitting on that much wealth is violent. And a billionaire
30:50can't buy a billion dollars worth of groceries. I will also say that economists and experts are
30:57genuinely concerned that if we don't do something about the inheritance tax loopholes that we have
31:02right now, we are going to make a permanent aristocracy in this country that cannot lose
31:06their wealth, that we are going to have such a divide if we let it within the next 10 to
31:1120 years,
31:11let one generation give $123 trillion to the next generation, which is-
31:23to be able to give all your children to not have to pay taxes on the things that you want
31:27to buy a
31:28house. It's 35% tax on the inheritance tax. No, they do not pay taxes the way the rest of
31:31us
31:32regular old folks pay taxes. They just don't. And to make that argument is-
31:35But you're not involving the wealth. I mean, the crucial piece is that only above a certain
31:39amount of wealth. I think it's like $15 million or something like that. So that's what she's talking
31:46about. Yes, there are taxes on inheritances, but only above a certain amount. And there are lots of
31:51ways to get around it. Lots of ways to get around it. In New York, we have city tax and
31:55state tax,
31:56besides the federal tax. Next for us, the White House is giving
31:59fancy goodie bags to white South African refugees. And they're about to deport,
32:05at the same time that this is happening, thousands of Haitian refugees. We'll discuss next.
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